Model Engine Maker

Engines => From Kits/Castings => Topic started by: RayW on July 10, 2020, 05:23:03 PM

Title: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on July 10, 2020, 05:23:03 PM
Thanks to Graham, I became the lucky recipient today of this set of castings for the Alyn Foundry RLE hopper cooled engine.
 
I understand that, officially, the initials RLE stand for Roy's Little Engine, but as you will see from the title of this post, I have given them another meaning.

In addition to the plans, Graham also supplied a copy of a series of articles from Model Engineer magazine of 1991/2 by Stan Bray,giving step by step details of construction of one of these engines, which should be really helpful.

If anyone on the forum has built one, I would be interested to hear of any tips or advice regarding construction.


Edit Jo: Ray requested a change of title  ;)
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine
Post by: Jo on July 10, 2020, 05:28:06 PM
Hi Ray, I built my one on this thread: https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,7664.msg161750.html#msg161750

Jo
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine
Post by: Jasonb on July 10, 2020, 05:35:34 PM
Ray, are these original castings as they look to be suitably aged?

Not made one myself though I did also get some castings from the same source this week but not a full set and no drawings let alone a build article ;)
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine
Post by: RayW on July 10, 2020, 05:41:41 PM
Thanks Jo. Your build thread will be a big help.

Yes Jason, they are original castings and I believe Graham said they are the last set. I know he told me that some of them are from the original Rhuddlan Foundry (hope I have the spelling right) and are really good quality, but I'm sure he will correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine
Post by: Alyn Foundry on July 10, 2020, 06:08:28 PM
Hello to All.

Good to see the system worked Ray.   :ThumbsUp:

There's thanks to be given all around.

Jo provided me with a pdf of the Stan Bray article and Jason has been busy drawing up a flywheel pattern for the Brayton Readymotor.

Yes Ray, that's the correct spelling of Rhuddlan and it's the cylinder only that came from there. All the other castings are from Buckley foundry. I chose that one because the grade is 17 and a little more wear resistant than my special grade " M " that Buckley used to do for me.

" M " stands for " machinable " a specific grade of softer, more malleable cast Iron.

I too will be following your progress, cheers Graham.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine
Post by: RayW on July 14, 2020, 03:49:41 PM
First swarf, or should I say cast iron dust, made today with the boring out of the water hopper. I managed to achieve a workable setup on my 12 1/2" faceplate with three clamps holding the casting securely in position, with a piece of Tufnol as packing between the casting and the faceplate. By pure chance, I already had a piece with a hole of the exact diameter to fit the cast boss on the hopper.

In order to locate the hopper, I made up a mandrel to fit through the two holes in the casting, with one end turned down to fit in my largest tailstock chuck (as seen in the attached photos). I then opened out the holes with my boring head at lowest lathe speed until there was sufficient clearance to use my much heavier boring bar mounted in the toolpost. Before removing from the faceplate, I faced the raised boss , then changed to a 3 jaw chuck to hold the casting by the bore, and face the boss on the other side to achieve the overall dimension of 2.75" as per drawing..

Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on July 16, 2020, 09:10:09 PM
I have been working on the cylinder today. Plugged and centered both ends with aluminium plugs, then faced both ends square and turned the outside diameters to fit the hopper. The holes in the hopper differed in size by a couple of thou so the cylinder was machined to match. With just a light smear of Loctite sealant on the mating surfaces on assembly, I should have a good watertight seal.

To coin a pun, next job is the boring one!
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Alyn Foundry on July 17, 2020, 12:15:53 PM
Nice going Ray.    :ThumbsUp:

I've just noticed that your cylinder liner is actually a MK 2 version. The R.L.E. that Jo built has a MK 3 version. I extended the pad for the sight feed lubricator a little further forward in comparison to yours.

The MK 1 was a complete disaster two or three were cast, one used on my engine two more reside on the shelf.

Note the " stalk "

ZMH21SK_BN8
Cheers Graham.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Jasonb on July 17, 2020, 04:18:13 PM
Graham, you could always have run the stalk up inside the hopper, if it was good enough for full size then good enough here. I have done a couple of engines like that.

Good progress Ray.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Alyn Foundry on July 17, 2020, 05:28:55 PM
Hi Jason.

Yes indeed, I'm familiar with the idea mainly done on American stationary engines.

I do recall an incident on the rally field many years ago where the tube had corroded through as the engine was running. The water was gushing and splashing everywhere . Luckily due to the low compression ratio no damage was done in the combustion space.

I telephoned Ray this morning when I noticed the error but it appears that a 1" / 25 mm lubricator will fit nicely.

Cheers Graham.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Alyn Foundry on July 17, 2020, 06:05:24 PM
I must be getting old Jason.

I was wracking my brain for an example..... Duh, Fairbanks,Morse. My second open crank was a 1926 3 HP type " Z " I then downsized to a 1920 1.1/2 HP motor fitted with an American Bosch flick magneto.
This was about 40 years ago.

Here's a nice example with the famous " wrap around " metal base that also housed the Paraffin tank.

My second 1.1/2 HP acquisition was minus its carburettor, by now I was getting quite good at Aluminium casting so I copied the shape using Dental plaster moulds and made a replacement. I even made my first coreboxes for this job.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Jasonb on July 17, 2020, 06:22:53 PM
Ruston Hornby BPR is another example as is the Root & Van Dervort.

More common on engines where the hopper goes right up to the main frame. That FM has a cylinder head layout very similar to the Ruston.

Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on July 21, 2020, 05:02:27 PM
The cylinder is now bored and honed to a really nice finish. Had to go slightly oversize to remove a mark left by the boring tool, but no problem as I can make the piston to fit.
Drilled and tapped the holes for the cylinder mounting studs, and for the four bolts to attach the top frame casting to the base. Roughly assembled everything and it almost looks like a finished engine - just have to do the piston, cylinder head, carburettor, bearing caps, exhaust, governor, flywheels, etc,etc,etc.........................
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on July 31, 2020, 10:32:25 PM
The last week has been a combination of progress and setbacks.
The piston, yoke, and connecting rod complete with big and small end bearings is now complete, apart from the odd oil hole still to be drilled. That's the progress side of things.

On the downside, I made seven piston rings from the extended skirt of the piston casting and succeeded in breaking six (Don't ask!). I have now reverted to my original plan, which was to use Viton O rings, which I have used with great success on other engines. Even I can't break those, and the packet says that you can even fold them.

On the machinery side, the motor on my milling machine burnt out and the speed controller seems to have failed in sympathy.  By a stroke of good fortune, I already had a spare motor, having purchased it when I thought that the previous one had failed, only to discover that it was the original electronic control box. Fortunately, the speed controller that has failed is less than £20 to replace, so not too much of a disaster.

My bench grinder has been seeming to lose power slowly for some time and eventually got to the point that I had to spin it by hand to get it started and it would almost stop if any pressure was applied to the grinding wheels. After a bit of investigation, I found a large capacitor hidden in the base and this proved to be the source of the problem. With a replacement fitted, not only does the motor start instantly, but it has far more power than before. Fortunately, another fairly cheap fix.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Jo on August 01, 2020, 09:04:54 AM
Sounds like you have been having the same sort of week as me Ray  :toilet_claw:

At least you are moving forward  :) Unlike some of us   :-\

Jo
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Jasonb on August 01, 2020, 10:25:02 AM
I wonder if you would have had more luck using a bit of CI bar, with that many failing it may have been the iron or a slight flaw in it. Viton should work well and you could probably get away with one which should allow for longer coasting between hits.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on August 01, 2020, 04:48:55 PM
Hi Jason,
The material was fine and machined nicely..
I think it was the width of the rings ( 1/8" as per plan)  that made them too inflexible. There was no groove depth shown on the plan and I scaled it at 3/32", resulting in quite chunky rings.
I did manage to get one into the first ring groove by feeding it in spirally, but there was no way a second ring would have gone past that into the second groove. Even though the rings all fitted in to the cylinder with a couple of thou gap, and the internal diameter was slightly larger than the diameter of the ring groove, I simply could not get the piston into the cylinder even with just the one ring fitted. I can only assume that the ring was not sitting right down in the groove for some reason.
As a point of interest, the ring grooves on the Robinson were only half the width, at 1/16"
After several attempts at fitting/removing rings, as I said in my previous post, I decided to go for Viton rings, which I have now fitted, and which already appear to be giving good compression.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Alyn Foundry on August 01, 2020, 07:05:31 PM
Hi Ray.

The piston casting was a " Buckley " grade M, quite soft so I'm not surprised they broke. Sadly I never got round to amending the notes on construction.

For all my piston rings made these days I use a simple 90/1000" square form with a 95/1000" deep groove.

However....

Viton is now the material of choice for us.

Cheers Graham.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on August 15, 2020, 04:30:56 PM
I have just spent a couple of very frustrating days machining the cylinder head.
I started by facing the flat side of the casting and as there was no dimension on the cylinder head drawing for the thickness, I just took enough off to get a perfectly level surface, this becoming the datum from which the depth of valve pockets was measured. All went OK and the valve guides, valve pockets and valve seats were all completed, before turning my attention to the two 1/8BSP threaded ports.

The exhaust port, which is in the side of the T of the casting, should be directly in line with the valve pocket, but when I drilled it, it fell partly into the pocket and partly into the valve guide. By measuring the depth of the valve pocket and transferring the measurement to the face of the T, it was clear that this would be the case so to overcome the problem as far as possible, I had already moved the port as far to one side as possible but this still did not rectify the problem.

The diagonal hole connecting the inlet port to the inlet valve pocket also cut slightly into the valve guide.

I was completely puzzled how this had happened and all became clear this morning when I happened to look at the General Arrangement drawing and discovered the the missing dimension (5/16") was on that, rather than on the Cylinder Head drawing where you would expect to find it.
I now had a dilemma -  do I reduce the head thickness from its present 1/2" or do I leave it as it is and compensate with longer valves, pushrod and whatever else would be affected?
In the end I decided to re-machine the head, which also involved cutting new valve pockets and seats. Although I set the head casting up on the milling machine so that a 3/16" drill moved smoothly up and down through the valve guide, when I cut the new pockets, they were not completely concentric with the old ones, so I don't know now which ones are square with the valve guides. I will only know once I make and fit the valves. If the valves do not seal on the new seats, I may have no alternative but to drill the pockets out, plug with cast iron plugs and re drill.

Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Alyn Foundry on August 17, 2020, 11:22:26 AM
Good morning Ray.

If I've read your last paragraph correctly then no, you shouldn't have any problems getting a seat for the valves as you cut them from the original setting. The pockets might not be concentric but that doesn't really matter.

If you've left a little extra on the depth of the cylinder head casting then you will need to extend the valve stems accordingly. Once the assembly of head, cylinder and hopper are bolted to the mainframe and your timing gears placed you can then find the " true " length of the pushrod.

Cheers Graham.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on August 17, 2020, 11:37:29 AM
Hi Graham,

I have made the valves and they seem to seal OK on their seats when I blow into the threaded ports.
As I am reversing the inlet and exhaust valves, does that mean that the exhaust valve should now be the longer of the two? Was there any reason for the two being of different lengths?

I have made the valves to the lengths as per drawing, but on the shorter one, when the collet is fitted, it almost touches the top of the nipple, giving zero room for a spring so it looks as if I may have to make that one longer anyway.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Alyn Foundry on August 17, 2020, 12:23:20 PM
Hi Ray.

I've just been for a refresh on the drawings.

The inlet, being atmospherically operated needs a light spring so a little extra was added to help with this issue. Although the drawing shows the springs sitting on top of the nipples you can always allow them to slide over them to sit at the base. I made " piloted " tube cutters from Silver Steel that accurately cut the OD of the nipples down in diameter to fit parallel springs, you could, however make some conical ones.   ;)

Because you're reversing the arrangement you will need to make the rocker arm longer with an outward curve to " pass over " the inlet valve stem. I'm sure I posted a picture of mine on Jo's Roy's little engine thread? Let me know, I can always take another for you?

Cheers Graham.

Addendum.

Here's the link Ray.

http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,7664.msg163289.html#msg163289
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on August 17, 2020, 01:11:47 PM
Thanks Graham,
I think I will make another exhaust valve the same length as the inlet as that one seems plenty long enough
.
I am not very happy anyway with the fit of the valve stems in the guides. The reamer I used seems to have cut slightly oversize as a result of which there is quite a bit of sideways movement on the valves.

I am debating whether to remake the valves with slightly larger stems to fit the guides, or alternatively, I could bore out and sleeve the guides, but I would still have the problem of ensuring squareness and concentricity with the valve seats. The other option is to leave as is and see if the loose fit causes any problems when I try to run the engine, then make any modifications required at that stage.
Just very annoyed with myself for not spotting the thickness dimension which has led to all these problems.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Alyn Foundry on August 17, 2020, 01:21:50 PM
Hi Ray.

Typical Welsh summer, it's raining again lol.

My workshop is flooded again so it's back to armchair engineering.

Please don't try to fit guides, just make a couple of new valves with the oversized stems. I've got over 50 reamers, all seem to cut a little differently to each other. Over the years I've learned to use the ones best suited to a particular job.

Cheers Graham.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: michaelr on August 17, 2020, 03:31:45 PM
 Ray, Having built the RLE engine (Two in fact) I'm watching your build with interest, I did the reversed Inlet/Exhaust fitted a curved over rocker arm, both valves same length.

MichaelR
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on August 17, 2020, 07:24:30 PM
Hi Michael,
Thanks for your interest. I like your rocker and was planning something similar. For some reason I seem to be making hard work of the cylinder head. I did try larger valve stems as suggested by Graham, but it looks like the valve guide holes are slightly oval so I have no option but to open them out to 5mm so that I can use 5mm silver steel for the valve stems.


Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: michaelr on August 17, 2020, 08:03:14 PM
Hi Ray.
I'm sure you will overcome the valve guide problem, I turned the valves for my engine from stainless steel.

MichaelR
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on August 17, 2020, 08:38:04 PM
Thanks Michael. I made a drilling jig that fitted tightly in the valve pocket and against the face of the cylinder head and opened up the guides by running a 5mm drill through them. Have to order some 5mm drill rod, then I will make the valves by silver soldering a stainless disc to one end, then machining to size with the stem held in a collet.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Jasonb on August 18, 2020, 07:04:10 AM
Ray did you also drill the previous hole? I prefer to ream my guides as it gives a rounder hole and closer to size which may be where your problem came from or could be that SS can be tri-lobed due to the grinding process. I then turn my valves to fit the reamed hole from solid
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on August 18, 2020, 09:37:27 AM
Hi Jason,
The original holes were drilled undersized then reamed. I think the problem was caused when I realised that the thickness of the head was wrong and I had to turn it down which meant machining away the valve seats and quite a bit of the valve pockets.
In order to set the thinner head up for reboring the pockets and recutting the valve seats I used a 3/16" drill bit in the mill and adjusted the position of the head casting until the drill bit appeared to slide smoothly up and down through the valve guide. I suspect now that things may not have been perfectly vertical as I thought, resulting in the guides being damaged.
I do not have a 5mm reamer so keeping fingers crossed that the 5mm drill bit I used will have given a sufficiently good finish.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on August 21, 2020, 03:45:14 PM
Finally got the cylinder head problems sorted.
Re-made the valves, both to the same length, and with 5mm silver steel stems and stainless heads silver soldered on. Ground them both in with fine grade grinding paste until there was a nice even ring showing on both the valves and the seats. Fitted a very light spring for the inlet valve and a slightly heavier one for the exhaust. Modified the collets to give slightly more room for the springs.

Drilled and spot faced the four fixing bolt holes in the head casting, then clamped it to the cylinder and spotted through to mark the holes for the fixing studs. Drilled and tapped the holes 2BA.

The attached photos show the two body castings, cylinder, hopper and cylinder head roughly assembled to show progress to date. The front of the upper body casting still needs opening out a bit as it is currently slightly narrower than the mouth of the cylinder.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Alyn Foundry on August 21, 2020, 04:12:15 PM
Good afternoon Ray.

" All's well that ends well " as the saying goes, your pictures say it all.

You've reached that stage that I used to start to dread, the " fiddlely bits " ! I really like machining castings but I found the smaller parts both tedious and time consuming.

I forgot to ask, are you going to cut your own gears? I used to supply a pair as an optional extra. I used the services of HPC and because of " bulk " buying was able to pass them on at a good, and discounted price.

Young Alan has just picked up on his shelved  R.L.E. engine again, he line bored his mains on the Denbigh yesterday evening.

Cheers Graham.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on August 21, 2020, 05:46:46 PM
Hi Graham,
I have no experience of gear cutting so will probably have to resort to bought ones. I know that you mentioned some time back that you still had some gears and offered me a pair. Are they still available please and, if so, how much are they?

Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on August 30, 2020, 05:29:36 PM
Managed to get the crankshaft finished just before getting ready for the MEM virtual show. Only thing left to do is the oil hole in the piston and crankshaft. The piston has been fitted with its Viton O rings and compression already seems pretty good.
Next job is to line bore the main bearings and open out the front of the main casting to clear the cylinder bore.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on August 31, 2020, 03:51:20 PM
Drilled and reamed the main bearings today and machined the front of the upper body casting clear of the bore. With the main bearing caps fitted, the crank revolves quite freely and the piston moves smoothly in the cylinder.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on September 09, 2020, 10:03:16 AM
Completed machining of the two flywheels yesterday.

I must have been having bit of brain fade when cutting the keyways because I had meant to line them up with one of the spokes for strength, but completely forgot and they have ended up between spokes. I will just have to be careful not to use too much force when fitting the keys to avoid splitting the centre boss.

Not only that, but I didn't even think about ensuring that the keyways were in the same position on each wheel, so that the spokes lined up when fitted, but, by a piece of amazing luck, they line up almost perfectly, so the engineering gods must have been looking down on me!
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Alyn Foundry on September 09, 2020, 11:10:20 AM
Good morning Ray.

We always put our keyways between the spokes. If you get a " stubborn " key in the future you can always resort to a hammer and drift from the other side if all else fails.  ;)

You're getting on nicely, well done.  :)

Cheers Graham.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on September 09, 2020, 11:35:54 AM
That's what I must have been thinking of subconsciously!
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on September 09, 2020, 08:36:19 PM
I have just been looking at sources for spur gears for the engine and there seems to be very limited choice of suppliers, and I am just wondering where other RLE builders have obtained theirs.
Unfortunately, I have neither the knowledge, skill or equipment to make them myself, so will have to buy them commercially. If anybody knows of any good suppliers please let me know. I have looked at HPC Gears and I can get a pair of 52 and 26 tooth 40DP gears from them, but they want over £30 for the pair.
Ideally,the larger gear needs to have a large enough boss to bore out to 7/16" and be milled to a cam shape, although a separate cam could be silver soldered on if necessary.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Jasonb on September 09, 2020, 08:45:41 PM
Ray have you machined the position for the cam gear stud yet?

If not you could move things a little bit closer and use metric gears. If you went with readily available MOD1 and 16/32T that would give a PCD of 24mm, your DP gears have a PCD of 24.75 so only need moving 1/32" Even if drilled an eccentric pin will soon sort things out. MOD0.8 with 20/40T would also work with the same 24mm PCD

less than half the price from the likes of Belting on line who I have used a few times
https://www.beltingonline.com/gears-racks-leadscrews-366/spur-gears-367/metric-0-5-to-8-mod-375/?zenid=92cekrsbvp1feh5stqtbhrjgs3

EDIT if you want to go the other way and stretch them apart then MOD0.8 with 21/42T gives a PCD of 25.2mm which is closer to the original 24.75mm but MOD 0.8 nare not as easy to find in odd numbers
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Jo on September 10, 2020, 08:26:03 AM
I have just been looking at sources for spur gears for the engine and there seems to be very limited choice of suppliers, and I am just wondering where other RLE builders have obtained theirs.

I cut my own: http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,7664.msg163018.html#msg163018

The original gears were Mecanno 38DP but all things Mecanno seem to be expensive. MoD 1 spacing would match the casting shape better. IF you can wait a couple of months you could buy them from China for about £5 for the pair.

Jo
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Alyn Foundry on September 10, 2020, 11:34:44 AM
Good morning Ray.

As Jo has stated I used a pair of Brass Meccano gears on 103. Back in the 1980's they were readily available and very reasonably priced. I soldered two together for the half time wheel to get some extra thickness. The problem was that after many hours running at the rallies, they wore out.

Whilst at one of the many " Subcon " events the trio discovered HPC Gears who were handing out their little books. These books were a mine of information as well as a product reference guide. As a consequence I was able to buy in large quantities and pass the discount on to my customers.

The mainframe casting has a " generous " area for mounting the half time wheel. I used to make an eccentric bush of about 10 mm outside diameter with the 2 BA  threaded hole offset. This allows you to get the mesh just right.

If you have a rotary table with indexing plates you could easily " knock out " a couple of wheels in next to no time. A single point tool, with the right form, used like a fly cutter on the milling machine would suffice. They don't have to be perfect as their duty is very light.

Cheers Graham.

Edit.

Following up on Jason's MOD 1 suggestion I did a quick eBay search and found several suppliers of Steel gears that are available. It seems a 15:30 ratio might work for just under £20.00 for a pair.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on September 10, 2020, 02:27:36 PM
Thank you Jason, Jo and Graham for your advice and suggestions. I have now ordered a pair of Mod1 16 and 32 tooth gears from Belting On Line for less than £20 including VAT and postage. Quite a bit different from HPC.



Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Jasonb on September 10, 2020, 02:43:02 PM
And if you are lucky the gears can be sawn down the middle so you have a spare set for another project making them even more cost effective.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on September 11, 2020, 08:23:27 PM
Received the gears today from Belting On Line. The smaller gear, which has to be bored out to 7/16" to fit the crankshaft  is going to be quite a challenge as the root diameter of the teeth is only 1/2", the same as the boss diameter. This means that when bored out there will only be 1/32" wall thickness left, both in the boss and in the gear itself.
My proposal is to silver solder on a larger boss, say of the same outside diameter as the gear. This will both strengthen the gear, and provide a thicker boss wall for the grub screw to secure the gear to the crankshaft. My only concern is how to avoid the silver solder flowing into the teeth. I have, in the past, used Tippex to limit the flow of solder, so I wonder if painting the teeth with that would keep them solder free.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Jasonb on September 11, 2020, 08:27:36 PM
tipex should do the trick
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on September 16, 2020, 11:10:20 AM
Tippex did the trick! Both gears now modified. I have made the cam on the large gear rather more rounded that shown on the plan, but the lift is still 1/8" as specified. I painted the teeth of the smaller gear with Tippex before soldering on the larger boss. This worked pretty well, with only minimal solder getting into the teeth, and this was easily cleaned out with my Dremel.
Next job is to drill and tap the hole for the large gear spindle.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Alyn Foundry on September 16, 2020, 02:03:20 PM
Hi Ray.

I have just noticed your recent posts. Don't forget that the valve opening duration isn't just cam related. The follower also has a bearing. On the R.L.E. the follower is a very shallow semicircle so the opening time with a wide cam will add to the duration of opening.   ;)

On 103 I opted for a 1/16" peg, set in the crankshaft as it leaves the main bearing. By putting the gear on a piece of 7/16" diameter round bar I then carefully drilled a 1/16" hole on the centreline to create a little pocket. The crank gear can then be simply slipped over the peg and an " invisible " drive achieved. As there's little to no load on this component there's no need for a more " robust " form of fixing.

Cheers Graham.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on September 16, 2020, 02:26:22 PM
Hi Graham,
Do you think the longer valve opening will be a problem? If so, I will have to try and re-profile the cam or, alternatively, I could make the cam follower a tighter radius.
As regards fixing the small gear to the crankshaft, the reason that I soldered on a larger collar than the one that the gear had originally was because when bored out to 7/16"there was very little metal left at the root of the teeth ( not much more than 1/32") and there would have been no room for a pin drive like you suggest. If I fit the gear with the collar facing towards the side of the engine, the gear would be too far out.
The new collar will also provide sufficient wall thickness for a small grub screw.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Alyn Foundry on September 16, 2020, 04:07:17 PM
Hi Ray.

Well....

Ideally you'd like the exhaust to open a little before BDC and then be fully closed at TDC for the next intake stroke. I'd suggest to try it and see what " actually " happens when fully assembled. The " half moon " follower was made to stop the round pushrod from rotating, a very simple solution. Being made from Brass it also acts as a bearing too.

I seem to recall using a file to get the right profile after " fine " fitting the assembly.

Regarding the crank gear my own 40 DP wheel might have a little more " meat " to it than yours but was just a suggestion for an alternative fixing.

Cheers Graham.

Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on September 29, 2020, 11:56:41 AM
I have now fitted the gears, using Graham's suggestion of an eccentric bush for the large gear spindle, which allows fine adjustment of the meshing. The eccentric bush is locked in position with a grub screw once the correct meshing has been achieved.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Alyn Foundry on September 29, 2020, 01:44:47 PM
Looking good Ray.    :ThumbsUp:

I recently came across some old photos, amongst which was one of the prototype R.L.E. number 103.

Taken some time around 1986/7. Note the original " air cooled " format and MK 1 carburettor with high mounted " Three Nuns tobacco tin " fuel tank. This engine would also have the original Meccano gears fitted.

Cheers Graham.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on September 29, 2020, 04:50:50 PM
I am really surprised that you say the air cooled one did not prove popular and that sales only took off after the hopper was added. To me, the air cooled one was a nice looking engine and something a bit different. What would be interesting to see is a picture of your air cooled RLE alongside your little Leek to show the similarities (and differences, of course!). Having just fitted the RLE gears, I was pleasantly surprised to find the the gears on my Leek are exactly the same in size and number of teeth so I will have no problem replacing the badly worn ones, subject to being able to get the flywheel off.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Alyn Foundry on September 29, 2020, 05:17:39 PM
A " side by side " would be a little difficult Ray, in fact young Alan was asking about the cylinder. I'm pretty sure I put it on another engine for a commission build.

Yes, despite several adverts placed in the various periodicals not a single air cooled engine was sold. The R.L.E. was loosely based around the Associated Manufacturers ( Amanco ) Chore boy, I even put a pad on the side of the cylinder for additional fan cooling.

After several months a good friend suggested the water hopper and, putting his money where his mouth was, bought the first set of water cooled engine castings. The rest is history, the R.L.E. went on to outsell every other kit we marketed with over 400 kits sold to date.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Jasonb on September 29, 2020, 06:41:26 PM
Same goes for the Associated models and Redwings, the hopper cooled ones are far more common than the air cooled, I've a water cooled Hired Man set of castings knocking about under a table  :-X

I have made a start drawing up my own 24mm bore open crank design but am thinking of drawing three options - tank cooled, hopper cooled and air cooled all using mostly the same common fabricated/cut from solid parts along the lines of a Senior. I think I know which one will prove to be the most popular if I write it up ad do working drawings.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on September 30, 2020, 04:41:48 PM
I drilled the two brackets today for the push rod. Despite taking great care with squares and height gauges to get everything in line with the centre of the cam, I ended up with the end of the rod just hitting the teeth of the large gear.
To rectify the problem, I firstly moved the gear fractionally closer to the side of the engine by grinding away some of the sloping side, but this was still not enough. Next step was to enlarge the hole in the cylinder bracket and glue in a brass guide bush, then fill the small gap around it with JB Weld.
The result is a nice free moving rod, which I will also help by adding an oil hole in each of the brackets.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Jasonb on September 30, 2020, 05:09:18 PM
Maybe that's why the gear is shown half the width on the plan view from what it is individually dimensioned ;)
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on October 02, 2020, 11:41:25 AM
Yes, I had noticed that too Jason. I may see if I can reduce the thickness of the gear slightly just to move the pushrod more central to the cam.

Had a fun day yesterday making probably the most awkward shaped piece of the whole engine, the governor arm, not helped by the fact that several important dimensions are missing from the drawing, eg, location of the pivot hole, the 2BA threaded hole, and the 1/2" wide cutouts. Fortunately, my guesstimates on all of these worked out fine and the arm operates smoothly with the governor spool on the crankshaft.

Apart from milling  the 1/2" cutouts, all other shaping of this fiddly little component was done with my Dremel and with an assortment of files. Not a quick job, but I think the finished product looks pretty close to the drawing. As per Graham's notes, the end which engages with the latch on the pushrod was made flat, and not rounded as drawn, to ensure good latching when operating in the miss position.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Alyn Foundry on October 02, 2020, 01:33:57 PM
Good afternoon Ray.

The part looks great.

I realise that several dimensions are missing and also know that taking measurements from drawings is frowned upon. Back in the day the drawings were supplied, not as photocopies but taken from the original tracings by a process who's name I've forgotten.

Having been drawn at a 1:1 ratio the plan was to check out your measurements directly from the paper with either dividers or a rule. Obviously with the advent of photocopies all sorts of discrepancies can occur as any ratio of picture size can be entered for the print.

You're getting closer now, cheers Graham.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Jo on October 02, 2020, 02:19:42 PM
..... Back in the day the drawings were supplied, not as photocopies but taken from the original tracings by a process who's name I've forgotten.



Dyeline copying  ;)
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Jasonb on October 02, 2020, 02:45:29 PM
Must have been a bit behind the times in deepest Wales as even back in the early 90s we had stopped using the local dyeline shop and got our own Xerox to do copies of construction (building) drawings  ;) They certainly smelt a lot better :)

Though I think Graham likes the drawings he has been getting sent lately ;)
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Alyn Foundry on October 02, 2020, 03:07:28 PM
Thanks both.

 :ThumbsUp:

The name might have been forgotten but that smell will never be!!
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on October 18, 2020, 05:22:02 PM
The governor mechanism is finally nearing completion. I just need to add some extension arms to the brass weights for the springs to attach to, and screw the bracket to the inside of the flywheel.
As per Graham's instructions, I machined the flywheel boss down to the spokes on the inside where the bracket attaches, and I am wondering if I need to machine the outside boss down as well to avoid interference with the springs. The alternative is long enough arms to clear the boss. Having looked at lots of RLE pictures on the internet, this seems to be one area that has led to numerous creative solutions.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Alyn Foundry on October 18, 2020, 05:59:18 PM
That's looking really nice Ray.   :ThumbsUp:

After building several engines experience showed that only one spring was necessary. I used to use a couple of small split pins pressed into the side of the weight on the underside ( opposite the keyway ) and the eyes held onto the spring loops.

Later engines that I built just had simple Brass rods with a pin sticking out !

Cheers Graham.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on November 06, 2020, 04:24:54 PM
Finished the rocker arm today after some artistic filing! Now need to cut the pushrod to length, then see if everything operates correctly. Still lots of finishing off jobs to do, eg. Making oiler, drilling oil holes, fitting governor spring, fitting hopper, flywheel keys, etc, so plenty to keep me occupied during lockdown.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on November 28, 2020, 05:16:57 PM
Still making steady progress. Got the first coat of high build primer on the flywheels and hopper today to prevent Graham's special coating gradually re-appearing in this damp miserable weather.
I haven't decided yet on the final colour. This will have to wait for now as the whole county of Kent is about to go back into the highest level Covid restrictions as soon as the current lockdown ends on 2nd December and all non-essential shops will be closed. Must have a look and see what paints I have lurking in the workshop cupboards.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Dave Otto on November 28, 2020, 07:13:20 PM
That's looking great Ray!

Dave
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on March 16, 2021, 12:07:39 PM
Painting and re-assembly are complete and the engine now wears its final coat of Mid Brunswick Green, with a red background to the brass nameplate. I would have liked to have highlighted the raised logo on each side of the hopper with a contrasting colour, but, unfortunately, the definition of the cast lettering is not sharp enough to make a decent job of it.
The main jobs left now are the fuel and ignition systems and a base. I am pleased to say that after dismantling and re-assembly, compression remains really good, so much so that it requires quite an effort to turn it over past compression, and has a really strong kickback.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Admiral_dk on March 16, 2021, 09:00:03 PM
Great paint job - looks really authentic  :cheers:

Per
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on March 29, 2021, 09:05:36 PM
Thanks Per. Sorry for delay in replying. Got a few more details completed now, ie. exhaust, gas/air inlet valve, and drip oiler. The gas/air mixer is based on the one from the Sphinx engine, with five air holes and one gas hole entering through the valve seat. The spring loaded valve opens simultaneously with (or possible fractionally after) the one in the cylinder head.

This just leaves the ignition system to sort out now. I will probably set up a temporary arrangement with a trembler (buzz) coil just to get it running, then will probably buy a Minimag ignition unit. The brown disc that you can see on the crankshaft is made of Tufnol insulating material with a brass round headed screw locking it in position on the crankshaft. The head of this screw will act as the moving contact and there will be another fixed one mounted on the engine body.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Dave Otto on March 31, 2021, 11:44:22 PM
Everything is looking great Ray!

Dave
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: steamer on April 01, 2021, 12:11:24 AM
Seems very similar to a "Brownwall" engine over here.   in the 1.5 to 3.0 HP size.   

Nice looking engine Ray.....I will be following along.

Dave
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Don1966 on April 01, 2021, 03:21:10 AM
Awesome looking engine Ray.... :Love:



 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Alyn Foundry on April 01, 2021, 12:27:11 PM
Dear Ray.

I've been bogged down by domesticity recently but have been following your progress with great interest.

Considering the fact that the castings you're working with were " rejected " for various reasons, what a superb job you have made. The colour you've chosen is a particular favourite, Mid Brunswick Green is of course a Lister trait and was sported on my vast collection of Petrol and Petrol/Paraffin engines. Now safely held at the Anson.

It won't be long before it runs for the first time, so make sure she's firmly anchored as they can be a little feisty, and sometimes the governor might be set outside of the range of control. Finger on the " kill " button.... :)

Oh, your little drip feed lubricator.... :cheers:

Looking forward to seeing the video.

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: tangler on April 01, 2021, 02:15:31 PM
  :ThumbsUp:

I too am looking forward to the video.

Rod
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: roughcaster on April 01, 2021, 04:44:25 PM
like
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Jo on April 01, 2021, 09:08:55 PM
Nice  8)

Jo

P.S. The Admins discussed/voted on the idea of adding "likes" many years ago and it was voted down because it would cause resentment as it has on other forums.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: propforward on April 01, 2021, 10:33:39 PM
Nice  8)

Jo

P.S. The Admins discussed/voted on the idea of adding "likes" many years ago and it was voted down because it would cause resentment as it has on other forums.


 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on April 02, 2021, 11:27:43 AM
Thanks all for your comments. I have now sorted out the contactor arrangement for the ignition system. It consists of a fixed insulated sprung brass contact mounted on the engine body, and a rotating contact, in the form of a Tufnol disc on the crankshaft, locked in position with a brass screw, the head of which acts as the contact point and the tip of which provides electrical continuity with the engine body via the crankshaft.

At first, I threaded the hole in the Tufnol disc, but found that the thread stripped easily when tightening the screw sufficiently to lock it securely to the crank, so added a captive nut, as seen in the attached photo, which allows the screw to be tightened much more securely. By simply slacking off the screw, the disc can be rotated as necessary to adjust the timing.

I have also attached a photo showing the underside of the gas/air mixer valve where the air holes can be seen. Gas enters via the side pipe and through the valve seat, as with the air holes.

Just have to sort out lubrication for the big end, then should be ready for a trial run, bearing in mind your warning, Graham, to ensure that the engine is bolted down securely. I have tested the hit and miss mechanism by spinning the engine over with an electric drill and it appears to be working well. Nonetheless, the kill switch will be close at hand!!
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: propforward on April 02, 2021, 01:29:42 PM
Very nice. Neat solution with the captive nut. I was thinking about a threaded insert but tufnol being what it is, the captive nut seems a better approach.

It's been a long time since I saw something made out of tufnol - an old toolmaker where I started out my engineering career used to make all kinds of things out of it.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on April 07, 2021, 04:41:29 PM
RLE 504 lives!!!

Started after a just a few spins of the flywheel, and hitting and missing nice and evenly. Inlet valve is occasionally sticking open but this will hopefully rectify itself the more the engine runs. Starts easily just by spinning the flywheels by hand. My gas/air mixer is obviously working well and is very responsive to the least variation in gas pressure.

Just need to make a nice base for it now and sort out a more permanent ignition system. Ran it with a very old trembler coil and battery today, with odd bits of wire just loosely connected, so somewhat amazed that it ran so well.

This is a link to the Youtube video WBgg_EpGdZQ

Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Roger B on April 07, 2021, 04:59:15 PM
Splendid  :praise2:  :praise2: 1 hit to 4 misses to my non musical ear??  :wine1:
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Don1966 on April 07, 2021, 05:18:42 PM
Nice to see it erunning Ray .... :Love:



 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: tangler on April 07, 2021, 05:40:08 PM
  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Jasonb on April 07, 2021, 06:14:26 PM
Running well  :pinkelephant:
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Chipmaster on April 07, 2021, 07:11:38 PM
Thatís a steady runner  :ThumbsUp:

Andy
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: propforward on April 07, 2021, 07:16:03 PM
That has to be very satisfying to see such a wonderful engine run so well.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Alyn Foundry on April 07, 2021, 08:23:21 PM
No longer a set of neglected castings eh Ray?

She's running beautifully, very well done.   :cheers:
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Kim on April 07, 2021, 11:46:46 PM
Wow!  That sounds really nice!  Makes me want to do a hit & miss engine now :)

Kim
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Dave Otto on April 08, 2021, 01:32:27 AM
Congrats Ray!
She looks and sounds great!

Dave
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: steamer on April 08, 2021, 02:12:27 AM
That is a sweet little honey Ray!    Well done on that!!!!

That looks a lot like my old Simplicity 8HP....

Dave
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on April 08, 2021, 12:10:18 PM
Thank you all for your kind comments. I have owned and restored full size hit and miss engines, but this is my first model one so I am really pleased that it runs so well straight away.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on July 02, 2021, 06:47:35 PM
I have finally got the engine mounted on a base and the electronic ignition system wired up. I made the base of American Red Oak finished with multiple coats of clear spray lacquer. The ignition system is a Minimag MCL-1 Low Power Capacitor Ignition powered by 3 AA batteries. This is all mounted in the base with the battery box held in a large spring clip made of 1" wide spring steel.
The only refinement I may make to the base is to add some small feet at the corners so that it is more stable on uneven ground.
A video is now on Youtube:
9NQAClFwqfM
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: cnr6400 on July 03, 2021, 09:55:04 AM
Looks and runs great Ray!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Alyn Foundry on July 03, 2021, 02:06:46 PM
She runs as good as she looks Ray.

Nice one.   
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Kim on July 03, 2021, 04:36:19 PM
She's running great, Ray!  Hitting and missing!  What a nice sound.

Kim
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Dave Otto on July 04, 2021, 12:32:31 AM
Wow, Ray that looks very nice, runs nice too!
Congrats!

Dave
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Chipmaster on July 04, 2021, 12:28:00 PM
Good to see your RLE running so well, itís quite lively  :ThumbsUp:

Andy
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RReid on July 04, 2021, 03:12:58 PM
She's a beauty! Congratulations! :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Jo on July 04, 2021, 03:21:45 PM
Very nice  8)

Jo
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Roger B on July 05, 2021, 11:31:25 AM
Splendid  :praise2:  :praise2:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: RayW on September 26, 2021, 11:42:46 AM
This article appeared in the latest edition of Stationary Engine magazine. Another plug for Alyn Foundry Graham!!
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Alyn Foundry on September 26, 2021, 12:32:58 PM
The engine is a credit to your craftsmanship Ray. Well done.

 :cheers:  Graham.
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: gbritnell on September 27, 2021, 12:45:46 PM
Great looking and running engine!
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Don1966 on September 27, 2021, 09:21:34 PM
Awesome well done RayÖ.. :Love:



 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Rays Latest Engine - AKA Alyn Foundry RLE
Post by: Dave Otto on September 27, 2021, 10:14:23 PM
Nice work!  :ThumbsUp:

Dave