Model Engine Maker
Engines => From Plans => Topic started by: tghs on August 25, 2019, 02:48:37 PM
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seeing this all started with the 1900 navy plans, found the navy boat 1900 that had the hull and fittings plans, contacted a full size steam guy who has several on the engines.. he provided engine plans and boiler/ engineering drawings.. 1/6th scale was selected because the Stuart Turner compound launch engine kit could provide the engine cylinder block,, the navy engine was design onto itself framework and bed wise.. I made masters for the needed "navy" parts , molds made,waxes cast, brass castings made,, other brass boat parts made (soldering, milling, turning,) last Jan.. things made a big jump with the arrival of a LMS 3990 mill,,my shop space was moved taking about 2 months time but now I'm back up and working..
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Hello tghs and welcome,
You are setting the bar very high with this navy steam launch. Very impressive, and excellent workmanship on the brass castings and waxes, Likewise, nice work on the sternpost and rudder.
Looks like you have a good set of lines and drawings for the hull. Do you have the full size launch nearby? You did not say which part of the world you are from or who's navy the launch belonged to.
Mike
PS Ha ha, I have always wanted some "white oak futtocks" (second to last photo)
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I'm located in central North Carolina,, the boat is a US navy steam cutter,, in 1900 the navy printed a plan book to standardize boat building at the shipyards,, everything from 6ft work punts to 40ft steam cutters,, the rare book room at the university where I work has copy,, my full size steamboat contact has 2,, one that is unbound so he could send me flat copies,, (he is pushing me to do this correct) the only known existing example of this type of boat is a 40ftr for the early version of the battleship New Jersey,, several years back it was restored to it's original fitment.. the restorers have been great about supplying me with any needed info.. this "beast" has been in the planning for years.. most of the story can be found here..
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?3018430-US-navy-28ft-steam-cutter
this will be a long term project, it wouldn't have got this far without the great help from others..
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Excellent work on the parts so far!!!
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Thanks for posting the project photos and information, this looks like being a most interesting build with a lot of character and prototype realism. Admire the work that you have done so far. Dave
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Nothing like a good Futtock first thing in the morning!... :LittleDevil:
Welcome! I'm a steamboating kinda guy
Looks like your building a model of a Navy "K"..
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi9_pPH-J7kAhXBY98KHfNOAgYQjRx6BAgBEAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.steamlaunch.com%2Fengines%2FAntiqueEngines.html&psig=AOvVaw0N8DAM6J2P0KYf88HmPnlR&ust=1566854106538152
Dave
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Do yourself a favor if you haven't already. Draw a line above the shear parallel to the base line, and mark it as a building board line. You can then build it upside down which will be much easier to work on and you can pick off the dimension to the board line from the plans when you make up your frames from many many futtocks!.... 8)
.....that's just the boatbuilder in me talking..........
Keep the post pictures coming! I like it.... Alot!
Dave
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it will be either a B or G engine,, really doesn't matter the basic engine form was the same for all the models, just the size changed,, all my hulls get a building board made(if I don't have one of the correct size) and building a hull "up-side-down" is the best method,, its the only way to keep things true during the planking, more important if your hull has a curved or stepped deck.. your link is well known to me..
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Beautiful work, thanks for sharing!
Dave
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it will be either a B or G engine,, really doesn't matter the basic engine form was the same for all the models, just the size changed,, all my hulls get a building board made(if I don't have one of the correct size) and building a hull "up-side-down" is the best method,, its the only way to keep things true during the planking, more important if your hull has a curved or stepped deck.. your link is well known to me..
There ya go. Were they multilayered and "cold molded" in real life ( poor choice of terms I suppose) ? or is that just a modern construction bent?
I assume you have it strip planked and then cold molded.... Nice shape! It looks very fair! :ThumbsUp: :cheers:
Dave
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it will be either a B or G engine,, really doesn't matter the basic engine form was the same for all the models, just the size changed,, all my hulls get a building board made(if I don't have one of the correct size) and building a hull "up-side-down" is the best method,, its the only way to keep things true during the planking, more important if your hull has a curved or stepped deck.. your link is well known to me..
There ya go. Were they multilayered and "cold molded" in real life ( poor choice of terms I suppose) ? or is that just a modern construction bent?
I assume you have it strip planked and then cold molded.... Nice shape! It looks very fair! :ThumbsUp: :cheers:
Dave
and the reason why I ask, is I know where some of the smaller more enigmatic engines might be.... If you're interested in specific detail.... I know where a K is...and I've only seen 2 ever.
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the pictured hull is a 1/16th scale (4ft) RAF whaleback double diagonal planked (the same method was later used on US PT boats) I've have detail photo's of the engines and many discussions with their owner on what changes will be required in the scaling down process.. the foot print will be close,, the frames will be a bit more robust,, the entire block/valves unit will be a little longer,, just a tad taller.. all in all it should be good scale live steam model.. planning on building the hull very close to the prototype in regards to methods and materials.. have 3 select eastern white cedar boards that will provide the planks, white oak for the frames and keel,, I may replace the ash with another pale wood as finding ash with a finer (scale) grain pattern has been tough..
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That's great! I really look forward to hearing and seeing more!.
Dave
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I'm No boat builder so I may have this totally wrong. I am surprised at the use of ash wood on a boat, I have only used ash wood to build the frames for vintage car bodies, the wood frames were covered with either metal sheet skins or fabric. The ash frames were used because ash was a light flexible wood, but it tended to wet rot after a few years due to the effect of rain water etc. So you can see my surprise at it being used in a marine environment. Hope you find a suitable replacement.
Mike
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the ash was used as trim alternating with cherry,, it more importantly was used in the seating slats that were bent to follow the curve of the stern.. most of my 30ftr files are to large to post but some 40ftr info give you the idea,, all of the "trim" wood would have been kept in a good coat of waxed varnish..
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the ash was used as trim alternating with cherry,, it more importantly was used in the seating slats that were bent to follow the curve of the stern.. most of my 30ftr files are to large to post but some 40ftr info give you the idea,, all of the "trim" wood would have been kept in a good coat of waxed varnish..
The use of ash wood for trim and seating slats seems very sensible. Ash will steam bend easily and provide flexibility for the curved seating slats. It's a trim wood, not structural, and would be relatively easy to replace when necessary.
The last photo looks just like the inside of Boathouse #4 (small craft) at Portsmouth Dockyard here in the UK
Mike
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Looks like Alex's boat.
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I'm No boat builder so I may have this totally wrong. I am surprised at the use of ash wood on a boat, I have only used ash wood to build the frames for vintage car bodies, the wood frames were covered with either metal sheet skins or fabric. The ash frames were used because ash was a light flexible wood, but it tended to wet rot after a few years due to the effect of rain water etc. So you can see my surprise at it being used in a marine environment. Hope you find a suitable replacement.
Mike
Ash does get used a lot in boats, fine as long as it is kept painted or varnished - it will soak up water very easily if left bare. It is great for bent parts, just soaking in water overnight will make it very flexible (does have to be straight grained to take a tight bend or it will crack along the grain). I've used it myself for ribs in small boats for decades, never had any rot issues.
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Ash does get used a lot in boats, fine as long as it is kept painted or varnished - it will soak up water very easily if left bare.
That's interesting. The ash frames of vintage vehicle bodies are generally left in the bare, un-painted/varnished condition. It's the ends and the joints which usually rot out first.
Sounds like vehicle restorers are missing a trick. However, vintage vehicles have become so valuable that they are rarely left out in the wet any more, so the rot problem no longer exists..
Mike.
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getting back to the nuts and bolts, hopefully I can get to work on the crankshaft this week as I'm still deciding on how to build the connecting rod bottom ends , either using 2 bolts as per Stuart Turner or the strap with wedges as in the prototype..
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Very interesting drawing - the piston heads look to be conical shapes rather than flat, do you know why they are that way??
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If you're going to run it hard ....I'd probably go the Stuart route, but considering the level of detail that your working to, I think you need to do the strap. ....don't forget the box links...very important.
Dave
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thinking of taking a good try at the navy type bottom ends (I have spare rod castings on hand) looks like navy idea was for quick in place bearing replacement, knock the wedges out-drop the "strap"- swap out the bearing blocks- "strap" up and wedge.. as it may not look as positive compared to nuts and bolts most likely held well.. and I will have the benefit of loc-tite type products.. been looking at the box type links and thinking that they offer me the "chance" to get a small rotary table for my mill.
The cone cylinder head, piston and bottom, thinking the navy engineers moved the shaft gland unit "up" into the cylinder,, making for shorter frames and maybe block.. the US Navy at this time was a driving force in developing tech of the day.. one area was in advancing foundry work (many castings most likely were more complicated than needed) the creation of the navy ordnance dept, so that no guns would be of foreign production..the "harvey" steel armour process was developed with navy funding..
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thinking of taking a good try at the navy type bottom ends (I have spare rod castings on hand) looks like navy idea was for quick in place bearing replacement, knock the wedges out-drop the "strap"- swap out the bearing blocks- "strap" up and wedge.. as it may not look as positive compared to nuts and bolts most likely held well.. and I will have the benefit of loc-tite type products.. been looking at the box type links and thinking that they offer me the "chance" to get a small rotary table for my mill.
The cone cylinder head, piston and bottom, thinking the navy engineers moved the shaft gland unit "up" into the cylinder,, making for shorter frames and maybe block.. the US Navy at this time was a driving force in developing tech of the day.. one area was in advancing foundry work (many castings most likely were more complicated than needed) the creation of the navy ordnance dept, so that no guns would be of foreign production..the "harvey" steel armour process was developed with navy funding..
The conical pistons were easier to cast and stronger, and as you said, made the engine a bit shorter and reduced weight and clearance volume. A conical piston for a given thickness was stronger than a flat piston. It was also easier to push condensate out of the cylinder with a conical piston than a flat piston. The bearing straps allowed the engineers to keep their bearings tight without having to take a bearing cap off to remove a shim. I'm sure keeping the engines silent was a good way to impress a senior officer, and likewise garnering a lot of attention if they knocked. Reportedly, it was found that engineers were filing the slots in the links to get longer cut-offs, so they changed the links to box links, which beat that problem.
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did some milling and turning to look at if the the navy strap and wedges will scale down by 6,, looks like the area for the wedge slot has enough material to work, this will cause some redesign from the castings and a soldering operation.. need to order up some brass and bronze but I have a list of other needs for the boat,, lots of other stuff to work on other boat and engine parts..
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I'd cut that from a much larger piece and from the center of that piece to keep it supported. A few well placed holes to locate the bend radii, and you can machine the whole part complete and ready to slide on. The square slots are the tough bits I think....I would make the keys first, Mill the slots, and finish with a file or a die filer....of course if you happen to have a wire edm...well..
The LAST thing would be cutting the strap from the mother material....well that's how I would do it anyway....
Watching along. :ThumbsUp:
Dave
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have done some more design work and ordered up some materials,, thinking they will look close to the prototype,, planning a built up crankshaft, loc-tite 603 and pins,, the webs have been machined and just need drilling-reaming,, thinking that the connecting rod shaft sections (5/16ths shaft) could be centered drilled,, small cross shaft holes added,, the idea being that it would work as oiling points for the bottom ends,,plugs could be added to the shaft ends (one with small oil hole) making the work like reservoirs,, thoughs ?
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forgot that I did make a wedge lock system a few years back (just a bit larger) did some drawing on the oil idea, as for navy late 1800's casting, photo shows a modern attempt to replicate the condensate pump.. that's not going to scale, have a simpler type in mind that will look correct from the outside..
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have done some more design work and ordered up some materials,, thinking they will look close to the prototype,, planning a built up crankshaft, loc-tite 603 and pins,, the webs have been machined and just need drilling-reaming,, thinking that the connecting rod shaft sections (5/16ths shaft) could be centered drilled,, small cross shaft holes added,, the idea being that it would work as oiling points for the bottom ends,,plugs could be added to the shaft ends (one with small oil hole) making the work like reservoirs,, thoughs ?
I'm looking for an illustration I saw some years ago for the lubrication technique used on the TBD boats with 4 legged triples. They had this "pie tin" slinger on the side of the crank cheek that oil dripped into near the main, and centrifugal force would bring it out to the big end bearing....If I find it I'll post it....half the problem is remembering where I saw it :lolb:
Dave
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This is the concept.
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milled, stacked and loctited the crank web stock,, the mill made quick work of drilling and reaming the shaft bores..
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/923/DAuMTv.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pnDAuMTvj)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/923/jyOH9p.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pnjyOH9pj)
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made some gauges the set the webs, drilled the con-rods shafts and started to put the crank together,, as the loctite can be unforgiving, will make a qauge for setting the web when they get placed at 90 degrees..
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1/2" space gauge made,, crank loctited up,, it will get pinned and finished next week..
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/922/NT6h41.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmNT6h41j)
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looks more like a crankshaft,, mounted the main bearing tops,, clearances for the crank has been milled,, lots of chips on the mill today
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drilled and reamed the base,, fitted the crankshaft,, lots of clean-up work on the base to be done along with some dremel machining..
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/924/4lD6PW.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/po4lD6PWj)
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Important waypoint crossed - especially if it rotates freely :cheers:
I'm sure that I'm not the only one following, even though you do not get many comments. So let me just say that I enjoy following your journey on this project :popcorn:
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:popcorn:
Yep, looking good!
John
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the shaft bearings worked in fairly quick,, the bearing side vs the crank webs were tight fits.. lots of careful file work and several grades of fine lapping compound has the crank feeling very nice.. I have more castings if I mess one up but quite some time was put in the base..
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That is definitely looking the part! The crank and it's bearings are a major milestone....
Dave
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Nicely done!! Still following along here as well, just haven't had the time to comment much lately.
Bill
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started working on the navy type con-rods,, the split bearings are bored,, turned the rod sections (finally used my lathe dog that I've had for years)I use the tops of my castings they will get soldered to the rods,, the stirrup straps and small wedges should get interesting..
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Great progress on the conrods, they are a very interesting style. And that looks like a[size=78%] [/size]Unimat lathe, had one myself years ago.
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it's been my ship modeling friend,, somewhat tricked out over the years,, extended rails-raising blocks- up-dated VS motor (very big improvement) I modded the milling post with a screw drive adjuster,, just ebayed the jig saw unit, going to make precision filer out of it..
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Great looking little lathe. My dad had one of those too, but when he was downsizing I passed on it since I had a unimat 3, which I still have. Probably should have kept it but that's water under the bridge now.
Bill
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the LMS shop mill is working great, so glad I added the DRO's,, milled the set of bottom-end bearing halves , a little hand filing has them fitting to the rods nicely.. feeling much better about this method..
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/924/ORmxfe.jpg
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cut and milled the stock for the bearing straps,milled the wedge slots in one and managed to break my only good 1/16th end mill :Mad:, have a 5 pack of new ones on order.. will work on few other parts for a few days while waiting,, then its a week of vacation,, Oct. will be a slow month in the shop,, weekend of the 12th is the 1/96th fleet gathering in Rocky Mount NC, around 100 RC model warships,, to add to this Halloween gets a little overdone at the house,, we've been told by the neighborhood that we are required to keep doing it!!!
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milled the steel stock for the bearing straps also milled up a former to bend them over.. gave the straps a quick annealing and the former received a quick hardening.. center pin to keep things in place during the bending.. test fitting after the bending and trimmed to size,, the wedge slots will need some needle file finishing work, the straps will get a quick hardening once the are all finished..
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Some nice intricate parts there. well done. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
What do you use for the red marking out? Is it a Sharpie pen or similar?
Mike
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dykem red layout dye.. added it to a tool order, was hoping it would show better lines on the brass and bronze, still haven't decided on that but I have a bottle to use up..
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had to make an emergency 2 week trip (things are ok) got back into the shop a bit the last few days,, connecting rods are completed,, along with the cross-head slippers,, some 1/8 inch spacers on the frame feet along with some material removal corrected some connecting rod/frame interference.. so next week the base and frames should all get bolted together.. as the block and it parts will be closer to the ST plans maybe things will move ahead at a better pace.. without a camera today otherwise there would be pics..
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had the bottom end all setting together,, setting a weight on top of the frames everything turned and went up and down nicely, working on getting the frame feet a bit more level so nothing will bind when it all gets bolted together..the con rod pivot pin will get drilled for the threaded piston rods along with a machined flat for a lock nut..
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applied some JB weld to the feet bottoms as leveling/bedding compound,, clamped the frames in the building jig and wet sanded the compound down on a known flat surface,, this gentley corrected any problems, all feet were showing a little brass in spots when finished,, adding the frame crossrods and setting the unit on the base everything turns nicely with just the block weight holding things in place.. time to mark,drill and bolt this together..
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Neat trick. I like the masking-tape 'formwork' for the epoxy.
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got a bolt in each foot and after a little tweaking and turning the crank and rods are working easy and smooth,, so the next no turning back step is to remove the tabs on the block that would have been used in the ST mounting.. maybe this madness will work.. on another good note I have what should be a very nice steam pitched prop on the way..
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looking a little closer to prototype all the time,, getting close to marking all the parts and taking things apart for final finishing..
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turned a few more castings into parts,,stock ST castings for the lowers,, brass castings for the tops,, getting close to mounting the block to the frames,, thought I would have to add a spacer for clearance with the packing glands but adding the 1/8th inch to the feet looks to have resolved things..
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trimmed the cylinder covers to fit,, milled the lower covers clamped to the block to get a flat surface to mount to the frame tops,, have to make a drilling jig to get the mounting holes correctly placed,, did a little test with some 5/32 rod (piston rod) things should mount up well..
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Coming together great, very well done. :popcorn:
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the block has had the mounting tabs removed,, worked on the steam chest,, the steam pipe between the HP and LP mounts high on the LP chest to the point that an extended tab is used for the upper bolt on the flange,, there is also a lip on the upper edge at the cover,, decided to do these details,, milled the LP chest for two 1/8" brass pieces, with room to mill things flat after soldering.. things silver soldered up well and were milled to shape,, (note the "clips" for soldering are titanium strips, bend to the shape you need and they hold things in place,, Rio grande jewelry sells them)
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carefully looked at the steam ports on the block and milled another 1/32 off each end, looked at the way-bar/valve rod bracket castings and decided that the valve chest could also be thinned by 1/16th still leaving enough room for the 4 mounting bolts,,so the entire unit was shortened by 3/16ths ,, the length of Stuart Turner engine was the furthest out of scale dimension on this project,, the navy block casting was very compact in length, most likely complex to cast in full size..
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the prop casting arrived today,, it was cast using a very old model steam pitch prop as the master,, after some rough clean-up I'll have to get the center drilled..
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worked on cleaning up the prop casting, planning to drill 1/8th for each end and hopefully meet in the middle,, as the final bore will the a taper for a 5/16th shaft should be plenty of room to make any needed corrections,, started working on the frame to block drilling jig,, had to wait for a better drill chuck to arrive,, the one that came with the mill was about worth the "included" price.. also a 4" rotary table with 4 jaw chuck will be arriving today,, it should help with holding the prop to start with..
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While the new rotary table + four jaw are some very nice additions to your toolbox (enjoy :cheers: ) - I'm not sure how easy it will be to actually "fix" the prop in the four-jaw in a stable fashion that will allow you to mill / drill it without mishaps ... :thinking:
Will follow your progress and best wishes
Per
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props are not easy to clamp in any fixture,, I did a little test a few minutes ago and it seems like things fitted well in the 4-jaw on the six inch atlas,, clamping to the prop hub (still thinking some extra hose clamps or the like to make sure the blades stay tight to the chuck face) another option would be to epoxy/bondo the prop into a metal ring as a clamping surface,,not rushing into this, most likely will plan out and make the shaft taper,, do a practice run or too with some brass stock until I feel ready to tackle the prop bore.
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props are notoriously hard to chuck up for drilling the hubs, always need some sort of custom fixture. One possibility is to make a set of wedge shapes mounted on a backer ring, to clamp the blades against.
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Cast the prop into a cylindrical pit filled with liquid Cerrobend (Wood's metal) or similar and chuck the resulting cylindrical slug cum prop in the 4jaw, center on a previously marked center point and drill for prop shaft.
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I do have some cerrobend, but would need a larger amount.. the nose casting has a well defined ring/center using a brass tube and a transfer punch I made a precise punch mark,, on the back side the lines of the blade edges were connected and the intersection was punched,, put the prop on center points on the lathe and it looks fairly close,, the back center may need adjustment,, the casting blades are longer and wider so their reduction will help get things correct..
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turning and marking the prop on the centers and then adjusting the rear punch spot,, the prop being a casting of a casting is about dialed in as it will get.. marked the blades for correct diameter and for any high spots on the front and rear edges,, on both sides three blades are about perfect with one blade needing just little file work.. everything should chuck up well after.. all in all I'm really happy with the casting otherwise I would have been doing a thread on making a prop!!!
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chucking the prop was proving problematic,, set a plate with a center hole on the mill and drilled the prop half way from each side with a 1/8" bit,, the leveling in the lathe centers must of paid off because the holes lined up nearly perfect (less than 1/64th off) some work with 5/32nd hand reamers and the bore looks good,, put the prop back in the lathe centers and it very close to where it was with the center punches..
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drilled the block to frame holes today,, drilled the pilot holes in the jig, turned some alignment pins and cylinder bore guides,, set it all together and drilled spot markers, removed the jig plate and finished the holes,, had put the center stud and nut earlier to keep things in place,, mounted the jig plate on the frame jig and drilled those holes,, now its a bunch of tapping, filing and reaming to get the parts together..
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my little semi-homemade tapping tool worked great for tapping the block holes,, reamed the covers and frame,, still have to adjust the HP frame castings a bit, things are tight there.. but it all fits together,, the block will bolt to the frames,, the frames need to have the extra material removed to match the blocks lines,,
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my valve shaft guide/way bar castings proved problematic,, after wasting some time trying to get them workable decided to start from stock,, one soldering run for the valve shaft boss,, one more will be required for attaching the mounting feet,, the hole for the way bar still need to be drilled,, but it will be more like the prototype as the bar can be removed by the bolts,, lots of small work, but my new glasses are ready to be picked up!!!
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did a little more work,, the guides are looking the part a bit more
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the rod guides should give enough support to do away with rods exiting the valve chest tops,, except the steam line enters the engine through the top of the high pressure chest,, it has a robust fitting/flange as directly above will regulator.. decided to see if both things could work,, plus I got to use my Xmas to me rotary table,, might have been easier to try something larger but it all worked well,, the HP chest has a rod guide hole and holes for steam..
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drilled and milled the valve guide bases to fit the steam chest,, gave them a quick blast to clean them up,, a quick positioning test shows the three shaft paths in good alignment,, time to start drilling and tapping (lots of drilling and tapping)
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Looks really good so far :ThumbsUp:
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Great parts, really like those valve rod guides. :popcorn:
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:ThumbsUp:
Coming along nicely!
John
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thanks all,the guides are a compromise between the prototype , what will work and what would scale..the navy guides are much more elegant and compact,,hopefully most of the making things up stage is behind me,, but it's always something just today noticed I need a 5/32-40 tap and die, might as well order more tools along with them..
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slow progress as lots of other things going on,, but starting to look more like an engine,, what would be a good choice for gasket material?
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I like the automotive type fiber gasket material, available in several thicknesses. It holds up well to handling, cuts easy, and does not bleed sideways through the material. Some have had great luck with brown paper bag material, but I never have - the bags I have tried all are too porous and bleed out the edges. Must depend on what your local store uses. You can also use the RTV gasket goops, but those are not good for disassembly/reassembly as much.
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the last big holes in the block,, due to my shortening the block as much possible (trying to keep a scale look to the engine) the port on the low pressure exhaust had to milled at a slight angle,, slowly getting all the holes in the block, down to about 20 to go. I'll be very happy when all the studs can installed and stay..
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the rotary table centered, marked a center point on the stock and using the chuck jaws aligned it to a point in the mill collet , mill drilled the center,, milled off the rest, cut the part off the stock a little long,, final thickness on the lathe..
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Interesting - I have never seen oval stock before :thinking:
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Yeah, me either, I have gotten half-round and half-oval stock for use on the boats, but never seen that shape. Where did you get it?
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the stock is what Stuart Turner is sending with the kit in place of castings for the flanges and shaft glands,, without the 4jaw chuck on the rotary table the parts would have taken a bunch of steps,, I made a second one in less than 15 minutes..
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I searched around and couldn't locate the oval solid bar as such,, Stuart Turner has 2" sections listed as brass extrusion in the spare kit parts listings, only 7 pounds per plus shipping,, 3 sections came with the kit, I should use only about half on the engine,, but lots of other boat machinery to make..
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So basicly Stuart Turner has them custom made to make it easier for their customers to make flanges :ThumbsUp:
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I did find some commercial metal suppliers that had it listed, but only at the kind of places you have to buy in bulk.
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milling and drilling for the glands finished,, purchased some cylinder cocks,, they will get a little work before they get installed,, I'll be making the receiver pipe to navy plans, mounted at an angle due to the port high on the low pressure chest, and fitted tight to the engine side.. will decide where to mount the cylinder cocks depending on the pipe..
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Really looking great! :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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just pistons,piston rods, valve gear, links and eccentrics,, there is light at the end of the tunnel,, most likely an on coming locomotive (I'll take pictures of the smokebox door)
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:ROFL: :ROFL:
:cheers:
Pete
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turned a fixture to help bend 1/4" copper tubing for the exchange pipe,, lots of learning here today, lots of annealing,, getting good bends in the correct spots proved to challenging,, thankfully you can recover cerrobend and use it again,, after filing things to fit all was silver soldered together and it still fit afterwards.. no where near as tight to the engine as the prototype but not to bad..
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ordered up some more ME taps and dies this morning along with some others stuff to flesh out the order,, will end up with a good selection by the time I've completed this engine..
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the stuart block casting was made for an oval exhaust flange, the navy engine has a triangular flange,, a mating flange is the connection to the large pipe leading down to the keel condenser.. I think I came up with some parts that will look correct and work as well, plus I got some more rotary table practice before starting things like the box links..
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frame tops were trimmed to the engine block profiles, valve shaft guides have been bolted up to the valve chest, cylinder tops and block have been drilled and tapping started, the lower covers still need a few more holes drilled,, still looking at the cylinder cocks and wondering if a fitting with a threaded hollow bolt might make a more compact unit,, the cocks I have could always get used on the boiler..
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Coming together well!
I may have missed it earlier...is this intended for that lovely ship?
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that's the USS Raleigh 1/96th scale, she did have a 30ft steam cutter as part of her small boat compliment, these boats had ID numbers stamped into the brass cutwater on the bow,, many searches, emails and museum quires have not been able to get any numbers. USS Raleigh underway with a friends exceptional USS Maine..
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lots of drilling and tapping,, cylinder covers top and bottom all taken care of, the top studs are close to the navy bolt pattern,, the center stud and nut on the low pressure cover is in the cover for scale looks,, a full stud would have been into the steam passage,, I've used up all the studs that came with kit,, but do have some 7BA threaded rod on hand,,
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Looks like you're making good progress and the result looks great too :cheers:
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slow but steady progress,, all the glands and guides reamed,, milled the valve castings,, made up the retaining blocks and threaed up the rods,, pistons next, the castings have been cleaned up are turned close to size,, (I tried to import some shop elves for help,, but they either ran off or were victims to groat,, he's the saber toothed mutant dust bunny that has moved with my shops many times,, most often he eats those small needed parts that hit the floor... working more with metal over the years it is my belief that shavings and chips have been carried off,, most likely he now has some form of chainmail armour)
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Engine looking terrific! Stay safe from that bunny though, sounds really nasty! Was he the one in Monty Python and the Holy Grail?
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was test fitting the rings in the bores this morning,, low pressure cylinder looked great,, first ring in the high pressure great, second ring was over-sized and looks rough and cragy on the inside,, it fell apart while trying to sand the end gap,, :facepalm: sent a photo to stuart,, most likely will let groat feast on the remains,, maybe it will stop him from grabbing a needed part for a while.. groat most likely saw the killer rabbit back in the early 80's when he was just a small fluff of a dust bunny..
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(https://www.ekony.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/450dustbunny.jpg)
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maybe in his younger days,, at this point I'm thinking along the lines of wolverine crossed with a horseshoe crab,, add larger fangs and less friendly temperament.. I think he got into the house once and had a confrontation with one of the cats,, lately he has had a taste for 7BA nuts,, "imported treats?"
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The killer rabbit, was that Bun-Bun? Or am I in the wrong decade? After a while they kind of blur together.
Don
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received a nice email from Stuart Turner, they are standing by their product and sending new rings...
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turned and threaded the top end for the piston rods, will use them as arbors to finish the pistons,, will be away from the shop with other things for a few days,, waiting on new rings,, will be drawing out the links a little better,, knowing that the block will get brass side cover sheets, what would be good choices for insulation to take up the space?
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Have watched on with this thread :happyreader: from day one.......with great interest
The cylinder head has a sizeable volume of heat contact area that [heat] can be partially saved/contained, hence helping to maintain the desired working temperature within the cylinder block, and not continually lost to atmosphere
By example, my steam discharge valve on the boiler top approaches 206 degrees C when the boiler relief valve is set @ 2.5 Bar.......
I have insulated the boiler steam discharge 1/8" [3.17 mm] OD tube with a wound cotton twine, covered with a Celulose domestic filler, sanded & painted with domestic primer & gloss enamel. The outer diameter of the insulated tube is ~~10mm OD
The temperature of the outer insulated tube surface 25mm away from the valve nut is ~~95 degrees ...or an 11 degree variation in temperature that is then being exposed to atmosphere
I have reported in earlier threads that this insulation provides steam to the engine some 220 mm line length at ~~ 4 degrees C hotter than with an uninsulated tube
You could consider laying pure cotton thread vertically within the voids of the engine block, then filling and sanding off with a domestic celulose filler.....[would take a few fills & sands and can get dusty, however once done is complete]
The final sanding of the cellulose filler will follow the upper & lower profile of the cylinder head :killcomputer: prior to the final vertical wooden lagging strips
You could use an inexpensive digital pyrometer to confirm surface running temperatures of the engine pre and post the insulation, which displayed the ~~ same temperatures :Doh:
So this is naturally very difficult to quantify, [as this type of insulation contributes to a lower heat input requirement to maintain a desired temperature]
I used this same engine insulation method [as above] with my Saito Y2DR 12 x 20 horizontal twin, however used the original Saito brass shim cylinder covers, then wooden slats
Naturally I cannot confirm a unit reduction in gas heat input to maintain the ~~ 2.5 Bar WP, however I believe the gas input reduction must be in hidden in the total heat load equation of my steam plant
[an :old: Scottish Toolmaker trained in London once told me [55 years ago for me as a 1st Year apprentice] that if you removed the cylinder head lagging on certain steam engines, you could find refractory brick chips, with the remains of pages from the London Daily Chronicle :naughty: mixed together with a [now hardened] lime slurry]
Derek
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started on an attempt to make the navy style links,, using stuart drawings as a guide drew up what might work and started working on the stock that will form the two main halves,, had a brass piece in a stash that was large enough the hole in the center for chucking up was a bonus..lots of milling and I have a ring that the sections can get cut from.....
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one last shot for the evening,, all center-punched, it will be easier to do the drilling before cutting them out and apart.. not quite watchmaking but small,,each one will have to a boss soldered on dead center,, have to make 4 drilled spacers and 4 sliders that will fit inside..
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:ThumbsUp:
Looking good!
John
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replacement rings arrived today,, they look much better!!! drilled and milled the sections and cut them apart,, drilled some 3/16th rod and cut it to length to form the spacers,, worked on just one to start with.. micro belt sanded and filed,, a little hand sanding.. this might work!!!
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sun was shining on the big table this morning, laid out some of the navy boat steam engineering plans to review for work ahead,, the mutant footed yeti monster decided he needed to help..
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How many toes DOES that yeti have, anyway? Looks like some spares on there... The coloring is just like a cat we had when I was a kid - got up to around 25 pounds, liked to chase dogs and mailmen.
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he's a 26 toed monster 2 toes short of tying the record,, polydactyl's were historically ship cats , ships had mascots, but cats were crew..
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worked on the second link box,, it looks like the first one (always good when that happens),, started looking at the pivot studs for the drag bars,, made some threaded spacer disc from some 1/4 rod,, I'm thinking some loc-tite during the final assembly and it should be good..
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started the four drag bars,, drilled out brass rod on the lathe, milled and drilled cross holes, soldered up as one unit, cut the sections apart with a jeweler's saw,, reamed to fit,, still have to clean up the end lengths .. one fuzzy photo,, camera operator needed more coffee this morning..
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got the four drag bars cleaned up and adjusted close to the final fit..
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Looks like those small parts assembled just nice.
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thanks, almost watch making,, things will look better with the bolts cut to length,, made measurements for the throw arms that will connect the box links to the way shaft.. then eccentrics, rod and pistons,, light at the end of the tunnel,, (most likely groat has developed some form of bioluminescence or ate some batteries)
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made the arms from some brass flat and 1/8th brass shaft collars,, will need lots of fine adjustments and a few spacer/washers.. but did a quick test fitting on the low pressure end of the engine..
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started working on the eccentrics, made an arbor for the lathe and one for the mill.. roughing them out with the mill save lots of time.. two done, two to go..
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Coming along great! Seeing the unimat brings back memories, one like that was my first lathe, did lots of models on it. Looks like you put a different motor on it though.
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after market variable speed, lots of power,, don't have to change the belts position to often.. plus it doesn't get hot during long runs..
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four eccentrics ,, bored and trimmed , have to start on the rods,, the castings from the kit will be used, but they will get a little more attention than stuart calls for so they look a bit more like the navy engine.. also have come up with a drain-cock plan for the cylinders that won't look so out of scale..
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Silently following along. Looks GREAT :popcorn: :popcorn:
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my building at work went to essential staffing only,,seeing it is a research facility just one person per day to keep things alive,, 3 of us are sharing the work in 3 days stints plus our weekend person,, seeing my shop is located there not alot of work will get done steam engine wise for a while.. might get a little time in the next 2 days, but then I'm scheduled to be out all next week,, unless a chamber has a problem as I'm still required to come in and do repair work..
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it looks like we are returning to a somewhat normal work situation next week, "normal" being a relative term.. so I might be able to start getting some work done again,,been watching everyone else's work and learning and planning,, the covid garden is starting to produce, picking pea pods today.. a couple tomatoes showing a tint of color besides green..
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Popcorn is ready, shop elves have their mugs of root beer ready too.
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out of boredom I ordered a 5" x 7" tilting table for the mill.. also ordered up a correctly scaled shop assistant for this project,, a scale crew has always been in the plan for this model,, at one time was thinking along the lines of midnight returning liberty launch with a collection of sailors and marines in various states from the nights activities in the city.. but also have a more sedate 3 man crew on a special sortie planned.. the shop assistant is in the vain of limited impact on the build photos..
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my 1/6th scale shop assistant has arrived and has been billeted in the shop,, after the last disaster involving elves and groat the floor monster(see hearse project) I have been banned from employing elves due to unsafe working environment.. I think "Slim" will work out fine being the correct scale he has some size to him (12" tall) and really nothing for groat to go after,, if required he will get a top hat, whip and chair to bring things in the shop under control.. at this time he's checking out the engine and some recent "stuck at home" purchases..
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Slim has a great apperance about him :LittleDevil: though I wonder how he kept his eyes when all else that isn't bone has gone :thinking:
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always wear your safety glasses!!! he just didn't look right without the eyeballs so I added them..
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always wear your safety glasses!!! he just didn't look right without the eyeballs so I added them..
He needs a little pair of safety glasses, and a (dented) hard hat!
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The funny thing is that it makes him "more human" with the eyes (why they also do it in movies and cartoons), but also strange as it is a human (model) skeleton. But I like that you did it :ThumbsUp:
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with my shop he might need a full helmet and a fire extinguisher,, thought about the the glasses, but lacking a nose and ears this might be problematic.. shop has been cleaned and organised a bit and might get back to the engine (if I can remember what I was doing next.)time to start messing things up again..
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with my shop he might need a full helmet and a fire extinguisher
:lolb: ..... I do hope that the accidents aren't so bad that you might loose life, limbs or the shop / house.
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actually got some shop time today.. starting working on the eccentric rods ,, a little casting clean up,, a little marking center lines,, spot faced for drilling the cross bolts,, slim says they need to thinned down like him..
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the rods were drilled for the bolts, and the cut..instead of working on the 4 rods all at once I decided to get one close to complete (that way I would only mess up one) the boring head in the mill worked great,, back on the unimat to turn down to thickness,, turned the recesses on each face,, lots of size checking,, a little file work an the parts fit well enough to lap them to the final fit,, still has some file work for the final outside edges,, slim is happy that a lot of meat was removed from the casting, he wants everything skeletonised!! the other three should take less time,,
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Hmmm, Slim reminds me of the ventriloquist dummy Achmed, only Slim says "I MILL you!" :Lol:
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I MILL YOU, I MILL YOU TWICE!!! today we have the four eccentrics and rods,, they still will need some final hand work.. my drag links are to short so new sets will have to made.. (still making this up as I go along) the rods are just held in place at the link with some small screws to test fit things.. sorta just down to getting the pistons turned and final finishing.(plus to ton of little things)
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spent some time drilling 3/16th rod for the new drag links,, looked at things a little harder and came to the conclusion the the links are fine and the arms are to short,, have to start looking at making a new set of them.. :facepalm:
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the new drag arms were easier to make than the drag links,, test fit shows it should work now and has reduced the needed travel of the way lever,, slim wants me to make the the lever next so he can get a handle on things..
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Better do what Slim wants, he has a REALLY intense gaze!
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I worked the pistons anyways, turned on threaded shafts as arbors to keep things centered..still need the bottoms and tops profiled,, holding off on cutting the ring grooves, I scored 10 micro boring/cutters,, $5.50 total they should help do the job well.. (should be in mailbox Friday) next week might be the start of take it all apart, finish and correct things, make the last little bits (oil cups, link sliders, cyl vents, ect ect ect)put it all back together..
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my 5 dollar and change cutter lot arrived today,, sometimes even a blind squirrel finds a nut!!! they look new and very very nice,, I had a bid up to 30.00 placed and sort of forgot about it, was shocked when the you won email showed up.. they should work well on unimat SL
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A real bargain. Well done.
John
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a while back I ebeyed a quick change tool post for the unimat SL100,, for the price its been great and speeds things up..,, the dremel mounting holder is a big plus,, contacted the seller and he set up an 4 extra holder package including 2 "blanks" that I can drill for the new cutters,,
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milled flats on the crosshead pins, drilled and tapped them for the piston rods.. then it was a test assembly to check fit and spacing,, after a bit of filing on the crossheads everything fits and seem to be true.. with the temp rods extending out of the block top my test pistons that were used earlier were slid down the shafts and slipped into the bores nicely.. working the crank all seems to be working well .. on the other hand I think slim has been into the hand sanitizer... pistons need final work, rods need to made along with the spacers for the locking nuts,, but everything will ..
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Wow, you are really working Slim hard, is is out cold! He, I mean you, are doing fine work!
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profiled the pistons tops and bottoms to match the cylinder covers,, slid each cylinder assembly together and measured 1" clack to clack travel,, so the the cranks 7/8" throw all is still looking good.. slim is back on the job inspecting the work..(well at least he's off his back)
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extra tool holders for the QCTP arrived, 1 standard, 2 blank and 1 1/8TH inch for the new little cutters,, perfect fit so it was off to cut the rings lands in the HP piston,, the set-up works great and very precise,, measured for the piston rods, turned and threaded the pair, spacers and locknuts added.. have to finish the ring lands on the LP piston .
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Just noticed something in the top of the steam chest that I missed earlier in the thread - around the hole for the valve rod, there are curved slots concentric with it going almost all the way around the hole. What are they for? Does something go through there? :thinking:
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the steam supply enters directly though the top of the HP chest,, still need to make the fitting, drill and tap 2 bolt holes,, valve rod can ride in center hole while the slots will let the steam in.. one of those scale verses functional model things..
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Now thats very clever, combines the two flanges. Thanks!
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my valve rod/way bar frames hold the shaft nicely don't know if the top hole will be needed,, I'll not have in the LP chest,, LP rings all fitted to the piston,, a little ink and patterns for the gaskets are all marked out,,found that my model dockyard micro gouges will cut nice little fuzz free holes,, cork borers for some of the larger holes,, slim doesn't like the ink on the block, I think I'll move the sharp tools out of his reach..some light reading arrived (most likely should have read this years back) also found my shop wisdom book has a great 2 pages on setting and timing the eccentrics in a model compound engine..
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Slim looks pretty upset, best to move those sharps... What is the wood-handled brass-cone/steel blade thingy on the left side of the picture? Looks like something good to chase door-to-door salesmen with...
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that is the tool used for sharpening the cork borer tube end, keeps things round and puts the correct bevel edge on the outside of the tube..
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spent some quiet time this morning making gaskets....
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took some of the sharp edges off the crankshaft bearing bases,, still have to clean up the tops and drill them for the oil cups (and make the oil cups) made a shaft fixture with a center so the thrust box supports could be checked for alignment and marked for drilling..
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What are the upturned arms on the base at the left side in the photo for?
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thrust box mounts,, the US navy used these for some years,, a series of disc mounted on the engine shaft,, the thrust box had matching close fitting slots,, all of this in a lube box,, Idea was any back and forth shaft loads caused by the prop, direction and sea conditions would be taken by the the box and not the engine's bearings,, I did the castings for the box, mine will be for show (except for the lube part) 1st photo is a navy "B" engine that has been the main photographic source of info for my model,, good shot of the disc on the shaft..
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while thinking about the thrust box mounts and the making this up as I go along,, the mounts needed to marked,center-punched,drilled and tapped.. plus supporting them while doing all this would be a bad idea.. a chunk of aluminum was measured,cut and milled square.. milled a big groove to match the bearing half faces...clamped in place the mounts back face rested on the edge giving nice support.. all punched,drilled and tapped..not a bad lunch hour.. thrust box castings ready to get some work..
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seeing the mounts were all prepped decided to work on the thrust box,, the casting halfs were filed flat and loctited together,, milled and drilled for the through bolts, drilled for the mounting studs,, fitted a thin brass tube in place of the shaft to use as a drill guide,, drilled the box and then finished up things with the reamers.. the box is mainly for show but will provide some shaft support.. a condensate pump driven by an eccentric will be outboard of the box..
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spent some time today with the opti-visor on making the cylinder cocks,, wanted to make them as small as possible trying to keep the scale look.. they still need the drain hole drilled but will do that when they get installed so it will be correctly positioned..(I'll make a nice brass spanner to work them) made up the fitting for steam admission on the HP chest top. polished the valve faces of the block and the valves.still have to make the travelers for the box links and the brass side and top panels,,
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a bit more of the the small stuff,, made the valve shafts with some silver soldering.. the link sliders were made by cutting and filing some brass stock(had to mill it to correct thickness first) when the crescent shaped piece fit in the groove of the extra link stock it was drilled (using the stock as a holding fixture) the the separate guides were cut..lot of small drilling and filing, but it feels good and moves smoothly.. may have the grind down the bolt heads of the rod bolts for clearance along with the lock nuts on the back side..
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:ThumbsUp:
Looking great!
:popcorn:
John
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still working on the final few things,, slim is happy as today he can get a handle on things..waiting on a BA threaded order of nuts, screws and bolts.. going to try to get the engine brass side covers in the next day or so.. thanks all..
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Looks great, can see why Slim is happy. :popcorn:
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slim seems to like shiny objects,, gave him a big one today work on one of the engine shrouds is being fitted,, lots of fun forming some sheet brass,, made a pattern with a piece of heavy-duty aluminum foil.. still have to make the other side and decide if they will be soldered together at the top center seam..
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Wow, that really changed the look of the engine. Did you make a wood form, or just bent over the engine? Very clean result.
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used a few pieces of round and square stock to get the basic side shape,, marked for the top bends and used a bench anvil and stock in a vice to work those into shape,,marked and trimmed for the cylinder tops,, it really does change the look.. the foil pattern helped greatly..
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finished the other side shroud and it was soldered to the other,, kind of just set everything in place to get a good look at things,, there are a lot of parts involved here.. will have to get started on a boat frame section for a test stand..
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Looking fantastic! :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Oh, and don't forget to make Slim a 'life' jacket, unless you fatten him up on cookies he won't float to well!
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slim might get upset to find out a more "fleshed out" crew will get this engine once it's in the hull,, Kind of worried I can't tell if he is smiling or scowling,, I do have an idea for another long term 1/6th scale project that he could get command of..scaling it out calls for a 4cyl IC engine 5-6" long, hull would be at 56" long,, I'll tell him a reduced weight driver would be a "good thing".. crew for the cutter is getting inspiration from period photos..
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You could build him something like this too - I've seen them done with a, um, skin-impaired person, like Slim, as the rower. There is a guy in England that makes the RowBot controller that drives the servos for the oars. I have mine set up for Captain Jack Sparrow. Four servos, two for each oar, takes RC input on two channels so you have Fwd/Rev throttle on one stick, steering on the other, and the RowBot box coordinates the four servos.
(https://i.postimg.cc/j2L6Q6DR/IMG-0641.jpg)
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I have photos for most of the navy boat book 1900.. this was the plan book used by the boat yards so putting together a rowing type boat could be fun,, right now I'm looking hard at the idea of having servos inside a 1/6th scale crewman so he will have his hands on the regulator and way lever,, a couple of packets arrived,, a few tools for the mill and lathe, the assortment of BA stuff,, 2 weeks from order to mailbox for this order,, coming from the UK can't complain at all,, looking closely at the stuff I think stuart may be using them also.. all looks great..
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You build Slim a copy of the Thousand Island Y.C. One-Design class boat, and the next thing you know he'll want a copy of Gar Wood's triple engine Miss America. Or maybe a its' rival the Miss England, if Slim's originally from that side of the pond.
Don
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I think he'd want a chris-craft cobra or a baby-bootlegger,, better to pick up girls :ROFL:
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with brass screws in the bearing caps it was time to clean them up.. the set up seemed to work great and with a little file and dremel work it should be ready for final assembly..(after it gets holes for oil cups, and I make the oil cups)
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I was sorting through some photo files this morning, it's been long slow progress with several delays but the light at the end of tunnel is looking a lot less like the headlamp of a locomotive..
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Stunning progress. You and Slim have worked your fingers to the bone! (sorry, had to beat CNR to that one). Looking great!
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: The launch engine looks great!
Pretty quick on the draw there with the pun Chris! well done.
Getting down to the bare bones of the pun file for a suitable response, Slim pickins indeed. Must be low-fat cookies for shop elf feeding in the TGHS shop!
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I saved slim's boney fingers a bit, filed and dremel sanded the base and frames,, then it and a few others parts spent a few minutes in the blast box,, the fine beads give a scale cast look,, a shaft was left in to protect the bores and the smooth crosshead guides were taped.. now to give it all good cleaning and start putting things together..
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spent all of my shop time yesterday looking for things I had put in safe places so they wouldn't get lost, first was the packet of small round-head screws for mounting the shroud, second was my envelope of gaskets,,both items have been found this morning, more or less where I thought they were.. it's amazing to loose things in 12ft square room,, thinking of investing in Dr. Scholl's memory insoles but I heard they really don't work..guess this all comes with turning 60 last week..I think slim was laughing at me the entire time..
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lots of little pesky work today,, drilled the shroud and block, tapped the holes for 1-72 thread,, the little 1-72 screws thread did not go all the way to the head so the required number were all ran up on a die,, they also were a tad long for the needs so a threaded piece of brass was used as file guide to get the length correct,, spent some time cleaning up other parts..
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keep remembering things that have to get done before it all gets put together,, today was insulating the block.. been thinking of what to use,, but I did have the a sheet of cork on the shelf and the RTV in a tool box,, don't know if it will make a difference in running but a little clean up after the RTV is cured and it's taken care of..
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Naturally you will not be able to do A to B tests, but be assured....once the engine block comes up to running temperature, your captive insulation will assist with maintaining :Mad: the engine temperature.....well done :ThumbsUp:
Derek
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started assembly,, cleaning up each part as it's needed,, the order of assembly might be somewhere just short of an Asian puzzle box..so far all is smooth any moving nicely..
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I probably missed it earlier in the thread - why is there a second hole in the big end of the con rods, above the crank pins?
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just added those,, don't really know what it's function was for sure,, I figured it is a good port to add a drop of loctite to the wedges,, but it is a feature on the full scale engine
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Might have been a way to lighten the big end? Nice to see those details in the model. :ThumbsUp:
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I believe the top [second] hole in each piston rod was for an alignment jig used to set, then accurately machine the actual big end bore
So the first piston rod is secured at the piston end, and secondly secured for the machining of the top hole for the jig pin
This rod is then mounted on the jig pin and the stroke is accurately set relative to a position on the piston end, then the bigend bore is completed
The second piston rod is premelinary machined with the top bore, is then placed in the jig [stroke accuately set] and the bigend bore is completed so ensuring both pisto rod stroke lengths are identical
The original plan does not state this, however the concept is sound
Derek
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worked the pistons into the cylinders, and bolted the block to the frame,, as expected things were fairly firm and in need of breaking in a bit.. figured I could turn it by hand for few hours or rig something,,a little time, lots of oil, moving much nicer now..
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Just love the engine mounting wedges. :ROFL: And the Unimat SL :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Mike
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they locked on the rails great.. sometimes things just workout..
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questioned two experts on these engines as to the why to hole in the connecting rod.. results are no one knows for sure,, less weight, access to the wedges, central point for machining, easier to machine the wedge mortise. all in the mix but no sure winners.. did get a good start of getting the valves set and everything together....
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before things fell over making myself very upset,, today's lunch hour was spent putting together a "functional work stand"
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a few more things to take care of, but its all pretty much together.. valves and eccentrics have been set,, linkages seem to be working smoothly.. so sometime next week will put air and steam to it..slim seems to like the look of all the brass..
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my full scale steam guy recommends that the transfer/receiver pipe be a larger diameter for better running under load,, I have some of the oval bar stock left and some 3/8ths tight copper elbows that might work to put together a 3 piece pipe.. will do test fitting to see if the nuts will clear (my last order did include some small pattern 7BA nuts)the photo does show that the pipe was large and made with sectioned elbows. I was planning on a second fitting to run the engine as a standard twin on air while testing..
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larger pipe made, slim says it's to fat (he says that about many things).. but the other pipe will be in the box if needed,, did have to make a set of spacers so there will be enough room for the pipes insulation
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It would be interesting to try both pipes with steam, and see how it behaves. Looking great!
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working on a period looking throttle/regulator valve,, kind of a scant evidence item,, no really good photos,, questionable plans,, have some info that a sliding flange/gate type may have been in use,, something that would very tough to scale down,, giving replacing the slide with a piston a try,, it passed the zero test and held back 60psi.. still need to finish up the linkages and packing nut..
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:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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I'm digging that !!!
Dave
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well not counting nuts and bolts , 12 parts went into this throttle,, it's a copy of the push-pull flange type but using a piston in place of the flat plate,, it will hold back air , will have to see how it does with steam,, somehow slim only understands wide open..
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well work has really gotten in the way for the past week or so. Not much work model wise but the major work project is about completed,, most of it ahead of time!!!(instead of messing with 4" x 8" metal sheets been messing with 4' x 8' metal sheets) did have some free time to order up a few things in the holding dept.. 5C collets blocks and a 15 piece set of collets,, a 3 jaw centering chuck and plate for the rotary table, as its a little smaller it might get most of the use,, the table clamps that the table came with are to narrow to be used on my mill easily,, next quick project will be to make a better set.... slim always likes new toys..
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Great build, coming along nicely. But I have to admit that I tune in to each episode to see what Slim has to say.
Thanks.
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very busy non shop week,, the major work project of retrofitting and rehabbing 8 large environmental chambers was completed, lots of inspections and testing. I did manage a little time to make some better clamps for the rotary table, clamps that came with were only barely wider than the table slots,, hogged the steel down with a hacksaw to reduce mill time, milled, drilled, filed and sanded.. after some final cleanup they will get quench hardened (I'll save some oil when the truck gets a change this weekend) hopefully next week the engine will get tested..
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Nice design - how did you get the two curved surfaces ?
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the black one that shows the curves, is one of the not wide enough ones that came with the table, I'll have to work on mine a bit more (files and milling) to get them that nice,
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46QuQjieanY only running on air, still needs lots of tweaking but it will run,, even in both directions
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slim was upset that he wasn't in the video, but it was last minute thing, also the first vid I ever posted,, engine is still tight but starting to break in, hopefully it will get to see some steam in a week or so,, to make slim happy I gave him the weekend off( thinking I should valve off the air from outside the shop)
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Excellent!!! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
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officially a monday.. early this morning noticed a slight wobble of the chuck I'm using as a temp flywheel.. further investigation found that one of the loctite and pinned joints at the connecting rod has failed.. I do have new stock on hand, I did save the spacing jigs that were made.. now the real question is should crank #2 be loctited or silver soldered? slim has taken the attitude that all of this happened before he entered the shop, I still think he tried to find out what was max rpm over the weekend!!!
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slim taking charge of the new crankshaft,, just a quick test fit of all the parts,, loctited the webs together for milling, drilling and reaming.. the webs do have chamfered holes on the non-bearing sides to allow the solder to fill the space better,, the outer pieces are just for support and balance while soldering..all the pieces will need a final clean-up and prep,, will have a friend help with the soldering as most likely will use two torches so things heat evenly..
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well the first attempt at a soldered crank was a bust,, solder didn't want to flow,things got over-heated, three of the eight joints were fine the rest weren't!! new stock is on the way along with new flux (both white and black) black is supposed to work better for ferrous work.. experience is what you get when things don't work..
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The black flux is also supposed to last longer under heating, I like it a lot. Be sure to leave room in the joints for the solder to flow in, if the joints are tight the solder will just sit on the outside.
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my container of white was 20 years old, had been rewetted several times.. it was time to replace..
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... I still think he tried to find out what was max rpm over the weekend!!!
It’s obvious to me that your problems are due to Slims overexcitement... just like a kid.
I’ve only silver soldered one crankshaft... it came out great but I attribute it all to ‘beginners luck’ I could never repeat it. Now my eyes are so bad I can’t see what I’m soldering so any future soldering attempts for me is strictly out.
Looks like you’re on the right track and you’re getting excellent suggestions.
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well my flux order arrived today,, not what you want to see when you open a box with a smile on it.. no packing two containers rolling about!!!a new jar is on the way..the white was fine..
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Just trying to see the bright side - anything you solder to that box is going to bond beautifully! :Lol:
Glad to hear a replacement is on the way. :cheers:
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Yup, they dont believe in proper packing anymore... :ShakeHead: I love it when they just stick a label on the side of the thin store box and send it out.
Definitely was the right bottle for the black flux, that color goop looks familiar! I figure one bottle is at least a decade supply, if not several.
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several years back I had ordered some ginger and orange preserves, 4 jars, high end stuff!!! the box was on the front porch and there was a line of ants,, one out of the three jars survived, just one layer of thin bubble pack...
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did a little more hot work today,, fitting a soldered crankshaft,, have to shape the webs and clean it up a bit..
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Slim seems happy with it! The new flux work better than the old can?
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it worked, but the solder did not want flow as well I'm used to.. I still might do another loctite crank..(getting good at making webs)
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it worked, but the solder did not want flow as well I'm used to.. I still might do another loctite crank..(getting good at making webs)
Which silver solder are you using? I've noticed that the farther I go towards the Easy or Extra Easy grade the more it flows. Usually I use the Medium, but sometimes the lower grade is handy. Odd names, but at least they seem to be universal.
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have to check the pack on monday, most likely stay-silver 15,, was gifted several packs a while back,, always flowed well for me,, many of the chambers I keep running had water cooled heat exchangers,, the old units were failing, to fit a replacement required a steel to copper joint and about ten more copper to copper..
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have to check the pack on monday, most likely stay-silver 15,, was gifted several packs a while back,, always flowed well for me,, many of the chambers I keep running had water cooled heat exchangers,, the old units were failing, to fit a replacement required a steel to copper joint and about ten more copper to copper..
That is a very different type than what I use - the Stay-Silv-15 is a copper/phosphor brazing rod with only 15% silver. The style I use is the jewelry-industry silver solder wire, which is usually copper/zinc with 50 to 75% silver, comes in 20 and 22 guage wire, flows very well. I never tried the Stay-Silv type so I dont know how they compare.
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not being totally happy with the last soldered crank decided another attempt at a loctite crank was in order,, getting really good at machining web sets now.. I did do a light diamond honing on one of the 5/16th chucking reamers,, it seemed to give better results,, the webs fit snug dry, but slide well with an added drop of oil.. cleaned all with some acetone and using my space gauges glued up the crank.. thinking about setting up the unimat in drill press mode as it is much more sensitive than the mill when it's time to drill for the pins. Gave slim the task of watching the loctite cure over the weekend..
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"Gave slim the task of watching the loctite cure over the weekend.." :Lol:
I hope the crankshaft works out for you, everything is looking real good & closer to running.
:ThumbsUp:
:popcorn:
John
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carefully drilled the 8 just a smidge smaller than 1/16th through holes to pin the crank,, did some test drilling first,, if I set the mill at full speed plus lots of oil things drilled well, used a syringe and needle to add oil and flush out chips,, lots drill-back-out-oil-repeat.. lightly sanded the 1/16th pins cut from rod..all cleaned and drove them in with 603,, trimmed off the pins and sanded the webs to shape,, I might of got the first crank to warm during this process,, so a tub of cold water was next to the belt sander, quenching made sure the new crank never got even warm.. filed the bearing caps lightly and honed the bore,, fitted the new crank and after a few minutes of hand turning it's very tight fitting but rotates freely and smooth.. still have to cut away the shafts sections but so far this is a much better crank.. slim is already taking credit for the improvements..
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leaving the crank in the base frame for support the shaft sections were carefully sawn away.. a few minutes on the belt grinder (again quenching often to prevent heat building up) to clean things up and it looks like crankshaft.. all remained nice and true. it will spin freely.. I'm almost back where I was 2 weeks ago..
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Looks good and fingers crossed that it will pass your final test :ThumbsUp:
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had to do some fine work to get the connecting rod bottom ends fitting well. added an oil hole to the upper bearing block.. thinking that a small tube bent and mounted along the connecting rod will act as an supply for the bearing.. there is evidence that this was done.. also thinking oil box with 3 tubes feeding the mains,, good photo of the method used to lube the eccentrics ,, just kind of wondering about bending very small tubes,, maybe I can use a syringe to draw cerrobend up into the small tubes.. The engine is back together with the new crankshaft and waiting on getting the valve timing set.. normally all free time this week would have been spent setting up halloween..(photos from some past years)
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Nice to see that Slim has a bunch of family and pets nearby!
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Slim might feel a bit "out-scaled" but come to think of it he might be the right size to ride one of the cats (that's all the shop needs late at night)
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engine is back together!!! it's running much smoother, not even screwed down to the wood base,, it will run much slower also.. slim must have got the valves set better this time.. plans are to keep it well oiled and give it some 10-15 minutes break-in runs..
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Awesome!! Give Slim the video camera and run it!
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sorry about the radio noise in the background,, it's getting better all the time.. it will even run a bit slower..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkeGimAuAJE
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:pinkelephant: :whoohoo: :cartwheel:
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:pinkelephant:
:ThumbsUp:
Awesome! Nice runner!
John
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Top notch work, and a great runner! Slim looks pleased with it too. :Lol:
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running on air it is not much better than a single cylinder engine,, things should be better once on steam..
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Nice work!
Dave
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running on air it is not much better than a single cylinder engine,, things should be better once on steam..
That is typical for a compound engine run on air, isn't it, since air doesn't expand anywhere near as much as steam? Sometimes I've seen compound models made with two sets of piping, normal cross one for steam and one with inlet per steam chest for running on air (and a narrowed inlet for the larger cylinder to even them out).
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I thought about making a set-up for air operation, but for now I'm just getting some break-in rotations logged,, also looking at adding a steam tickler line run the the LP chest to aid in self starting..
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I thought about making a set-up for air operation, but for now I'm just getting some break-in rotations logged,, also looking at adding a steam tickler line run the the LP chest to aid in self starting..
I saw in the Mann catalog that they did that, assume it was a common thing? Though, wouldn't it back-pressure the HP cylinder through the exhaust? Dont really understand its use.
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running a big engine compound or triple the by pass line to the lower pressure cylinder is good to get steam to the other cylinders to get them hot ready for starting but the engines start turning don't like running until the bypass valves are closed.the by pass valve could be used just to get the high pressure of top dead centre but to run the valves need to be shut.warming up is needed until water stops runningans steam comes out all the drains.often if the pistons are in the right positions once the heat is sufficient and the water stops the engine will start turning.
but won't like running if the bypass valves are still open.
your engine is running well.you can only hear one cylinder only one has an open exhaust .
John
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On Mallet compound locomotives and also on traction engines a device called a "simpling" valve was used to introduce HP steam to the LP cylinders for brief periods to aid getting the engine started under heavy load or in hilly conditions when extra force was needed. I am not sure if they also blocked the passages to HP exhaust as well as directing HP steam. On N&W Y6b Mallet locomotives and such, I can imagine the exhaust from the 39" dia LP cylinders while using the simpling valve must have been pretty violent. I can imagine more than one fireman watching out the cab window as his fire went up the stack and into the trees! :cheers:
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in my reading steam would be supplied in just small pulses to get the LP piston moving while the main throttle was already open.. I'll make some choices once I see how the engine behaves on steam,, I have roughed out a plan for a servo unit and a pair ratchet wheels that would mount to the prop shaft to get things turning in the wanted rotation.. plenty of room to hide this under the aft floor decking..
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Is the servo mechanism to do the same thing as a barring engine or barring holes would do on a stationary engine?
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yes, but it's still just a plan,,the simpling system would require a servo or switch also..still looking at other options..
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most likely should have done this much earlier,, but took some time to make a some 7BA wrenches,, slim seems to like them...
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How did you make the wrenches? Drill/file opening? Hardened?
I tried calling Slim directly, but the questions went in one ear and out his nose.... and mouth... :lolb:
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drilled a hole the size of the bolt span, used a needle file in my tapping stand to file out the angles,, then some time on the belt grinder followed by filing and sanding.. debating if they should be hardened,, I still need to harden the rotary table clamps I made a while back.. might be time to get out the torch and an oil quench.
slim claims his hearing is bad do to the lack of ears,, I think it only stops him from wearing safety glasses!!!
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Is Slim still cheesed off about stepping in the wet layout blue and getting the old blue metatarsal hot foot? :Lol:
Engine runs great! oh, I forgot about Slim's lack of ears: ENGINE RUNS GREAT SLIM!
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Engine runs great! oh, I forgot about Slim's lack of ears: ENGINE RUNS GREAT SLIM!
No need to shout - Slim is deaf, not Blind.
Nice progress + I like the addition of tools to Slim and I'm sure he apreciates them too :ThumbsUp:
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The engine runs great, even if it's just on air.
gbritnell
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thanks all,working on a fittings so I can test with the building steam (about 20 psi) have to get the oilers and oil lines made.. starting to look at getting the boiler,feed pump and condensate pump off the paper and into solid materials!!!!
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mounted up the non-functioning scale effect only thrust box.. but thinking because an eccentric(condensate pump drive) will be mounted just outboard, it might serve as an additional shaft bearing.. slim it taking to the new tools well,, if he had pockets I'd be worried the he would be taking the tools..
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happy with the engine at this time,, it will actually run on the HP cylinder, I had the LP cover off and put air to the engine and it ran,, should be fine once I can get it on steam,, it is still in need of details (oil feed lines, way lever quadrant, thrust box lid) started planning and ordered up some stock and parts for the next section,, the duplex boiler feed pump,, true scale would have this at around 3 1/2" long, which is just very small.. played with the plans for the "Coles" pump that is 6" long , reduced the plans by a third and it will be a bit of watch-making at around 4" long.. took the reduced plans and doubled them, also copied some of the navy drawings to the same size,,been doing some rough drawings on how to make this work now it's time to get some final plans together.. need to get slim a drafting table..
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Very interested in the pump build, one is on my wanna-make-one-soon list. There are several variations on the theme, great to see how this one goes. As I understand it, Coles is no longer in business? Is your starting plan from them, or based on thier style?
Hmmm, if Slim will be at the drafting board, he is going to need a stick-on ear to put the pencil on while thinking...
:popcorn:
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I'm using the coles plans as a starting point to make sure the proportions work, much off the linkages and ports should work off the plans,, the pump end on the navy version has been sailor proofed, 8 check valves with easy access ports,, the trick to this will milling it all out,, but I watched you carve out the stanley block,,
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Getting the popcorn supply replenished...
I'm close to doing the cylinder block on my Mann engine, going to use the same basic setup for the holding jig as the Stanley since it worked so well.
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First time I've looked at this: excellent progress. I presume The Lockdown is responsible for your skeleton staff?
John
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slim arrived due to comments about some small skeletons I had for a halloween based project,, the claim was they were a great group of new shop elves until the floor monster "groat" feasted on them.. also some modelers wanted me to include something in the photos to show scale,, slim being 12" tall is correct for the 1/6th scale of this project, plus he doesn't block the view in photos greatly, doesn't complain about not enough cookies or beer like other shop elves,
crueby, yes planning on watching and learning from the Mann engine progress also,, "talent endeavors, genius steals!!!" :ROFL: :ROFL:
thinking that both ends will be machined and bored together with reference surfaces for the center section, plus a pair of stepped rods to match the bores and aid in alignment..
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working in 2X actual size drew up a plan for the pump this weekend,, it will be a cross between the coles plans and navy type,, not perfect to scale but hopefully still functional..reduced the line drawings 50% to get sized plan.. this will be a bit of watchmaking for the valve linkages..slim seemed to happy but then realized how fiddlely this will be..waiting on a good sized (by my work) chunk off brass to arrive..
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Does that type of pump have the seperate little shuttle valves, operated by the valve rod sending steam to one end of the shuttle or the other? Or is it a direct acting one with the valve rod sending steam directly to the piston?
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direct acting, but the valve is operated by the other piston rod, so I guess the would be indirectly direct.. I'm staying very close to the porting,valving and linkages used in the coles.. kind of amazing things, self starting,, there are few vids out of them running.. have kept a watch for a casting kit but no luck..(it would be to big)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4yldgtw_To
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the navy most likely could get away with the less complex pump end because they mounted the units vertical with the pump down.. water tanks were mounted higher in the hull so suction would not have been a big issue,, it just had to make pressure to feed the boiler..
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Neat stuff! I've been looking at a few of the designs, and bought plans for the single cylinder one from Friends models as well as the Stuart Turner (didn't know that ST would sell plans separate from the castings before) feed pump. Same general ideas in both, but completely different layout and porting.
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with the holiday and weekend I gave slim some instructions for the days I'll be out,, must be that hearing thing again I'm pretty sure I didn't say "do something with your lazy brass over the next few days" happy thanksgiving... I'm fairly sure he is doing something with the copper and somewhere in the shop is a scale still in the works,,
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Theres a Brass for Every Seat...
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my lost in transit chunk of brass arrived today,, cut and milled a section that will be the pump end, the cylinder block and some spacers were prepped,, loctited everything together,, slim once again working hard at watching the loctite cure!!
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marked out some lines and off to the mill,, recesses cut for the base plate,, steam and pump bores all done as one unit so at least I'm starting out with perfect alignment.. separated the parts with some heat.. slim is still looking skeptical about it all..
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Nicely done!
And Slim is not skeptical - he is wondering if he can use loctite to glue some ears onto his head! :ROFL:
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Could be Slim's just pointing at something on the drawing with his leg and foot while getting ready to scribe another mark with his hands. It would be mighty handy at times to have Slim's reversible hip joints. :facepalm: :cheers: :Lol:
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Neat stuff! I've been looking at a few of the designs, and bought plans for the single cylinder one from Friends models as well as the Stuart Turner (didn't know that ST would sell plans separate from the castings before) feed pump. Same general ideas in both, but completely different layout and porting.
Here's one I restored last year. They do work quite well!
John
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsZ8-X0BYsE
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taking a mental health day and spending it in the shop,, milled up the sections that will join the ends, both ends need a lot more work before the solder can flow. also will need to turn a set of guide rods for the joining operation.. slim is looking at little more on board with things..
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milled up some brass plates and loctited them to the cylinder block, they will become the chest cover and steam passage plate, all will get milled together with the block.. spent the day working out the pump valve seats and water passages,, they are all taken care of..now I have to ram in some plugs where required and start milling and carving it into final shape.. I have a bad feeling slim is thinking about organizing a crap game
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:lolb: He DOES have a sneaky look about him!
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i"m just glad I didn't have to make two of the pump blocks :Lol:
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Craps is one thing - cards are another. At least you know Slim's got nothing up his sleeve, if playing cards - and no sleeve, either! :Lol:
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started carving the blocks, the set of ball end mills are working great for this,, measured out the jig rods and started one on the unimat and quickly stopped, job much better suited for the atlas (I can turn one rod and part it into two needed) I won a book of ebay under $20.00 total shipped, 1902 I.C.S Reference Library "Steam Engines and Steam Pumps" lots of good info and drawings, did find a drawing for a porting arrangement for a steam pump that I am looking at very hard,, the idea in that a small amount of steam is "trapped" during exhaust acting as a buffer to limit the piston travel,, seeing that my steam passages will be by an intermediate plate this would be easy to do..
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chucked up a section of steel rod in the old atlas and turned the "jig" rods.. slim said they looked like ram rods for cannons and said he could do a "jig" he says lots of things ::)
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Thats an interesting arrangement for the porting on the cylinder. Would it really give a buffer though - the slide valve should be opening the end the piston is moving towards to steam by the time the piston got to the end? Might still be of help if the pump was not fully primed and there was air in it. :thinking:
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that valve motion would be true for an eccentric driven valve but this valve is moved by the other cylinders shaft motion,, will be scratching my head on this for a bit.. :headscratch:
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It might work nicely - but I can't tell as I'm missing a connection between the upper and lower "control axle" on the last drawing ...!... does it connect linearly or digitally, so to speak ?
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it's kind of one of things that doesn't translate well in a 3 view drawing..
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OK - I didn't see that one comming .... and by the way, if left excatly as shown in the drawing - nothing will happen.
It's kind of funny construction - you can view it as a mix of "digitally" and analog control.
Lets say that the piston shown in the drawing is moving to the right. When it has gone past midway trawel it will open for the steam that moves the hidden piston toward the left and it will have to wait for the hidden piston to go past its midway travel, before it get steam to move to the left.
This also means that depending on load it will either move in a very jerky (Digital) way or more and more toward a smooth movement with the pistons in a 90 degree phase differense.
Please don't ask me how much load to achive smooth movement as I don't have a clue - it's just what I expect from a dampened Oscillator.
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set up the rotary table on the mill today( the new home made mounting fixtures worked great) by centering the four jaw chuck and then moving the jaws to put each port under the center the pump block was roughed out.. lots more work to be done on it, but it is looking less like a cube of brass..taking my old book and drafting tools home for the weekend..
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here's one I didn't see coming. had some conversations with the full scale steam guys that have been helping me,(these little pumps did use the dual porting!) they call the valve actuation I'm working towards external cross-over,, why? because an internal cross-over exist,, what a bit of watch-making even in full scale!! staying with the cole's model method of handling the valves with the duel porting..
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Gack - that is a lot of levers inside that cover! I can see why you would lean towards the external levers. I think it was on the Southworth pump thread that I worked out how they did the steam passages inside the block so they cross over, and the levers/valves can be normal straight-line ones. Just some drilling to lay out, but no fancy Harry-Potter-Goblin-Safe levers to make!
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did some more shaping both ends of the feed pump.. they are starting to look less like blocks,, need to get the holes threaded for the valve covers and pipe fittings while there are still some good flat sections.. made an arbor for the cylinder block for use in the rotary table on the mill.. looks like there will be lots of dremel machining ahead..
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started work on the the steam chest,, milled out the main section, the rod guides/glands will be a small lathe projects and soldered into bored holes..
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Coming along great. I like how the steam chest bolts down on the outside rather than through the rim.
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did some "small" work today, threaded, drilled and turned the steam valve rod fixtures,, drilled and reamed the chest to fit them, the valves needed a touch more room in the chest so the top and base plate were recessed.. my old heavy duty work table suffered total caster failure,, who-ever built this table welded the casters on,, fastest choice for repair is cutting them off.. a mobile tool base will be here Monday to solve the problem.. it cost about the same as good set of casters,,
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Parts are coming along great, but you gotta keep Slim off that cart, he is too heavy for it! :ROFL:
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started on the turnings for the rear cylinder head,, it will be 3 parts soldered together and then milled to final shape..,, the plate to mount the turnings in was made when with the block was,, they are just proud enough to allow for alignment and a gasket,, one still needs some touch up and is a little tight fit for soldering.. slim gets to stare at them for a few days. he's good at that as he never blinks!!
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cleared out the worktable,, attacked what was left of the casters with a grinder and a big hammer,, assembled the new rolling base and mounted one of the new toys,, informed slim that the the rollers has a lot to do with where those flat halloween skeletons are made.. table feel much better now,, stays where you put it... a little bit of shop clean-up and its back to work..
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Slim looked for a minute like he was going to shove that nice new cylinder and cap assy off the bench - but I think your roller comment made an attitude adjustment! Bench / rollers / new toy look great. Slim seems to like it too. :cheers:
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the threat of becoming 2 dimensional has made slim a bit more "helpful" (I'm fairly sure he is building a still somewhere in the shop with plans of exporting some form of high proof liquid to the other shop elves) the arbor press arrived,, the decision at the moment is were to drill a hole in the table to mount it.. the table is filling up fast! thinking about a hinged work surface to give a little more flat space,,
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I just clamped mine to the edge of the table for use, with the gap in the base hanging just over the edge.
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thinking that might work :ThumbsUp:, I could drill a pair of mounting holes and place some threaded inserts(or a threaded plate) in from the bottom.. the table thickness is about 1 1/2". the 3in1 mounting is a little more complicated so it will stay in place.. still thinking about mounting up 3 to 4" vise if I can find the one I like,, saw several with a rotating body,, flat jaws one side, pipe and tube jaws on the flip side.. smallest is the 5inch version..
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Not much model work this week with the work on the table/bench. The arbor press has been stored in a lower cabinet until needed. my micro fasteners order that spent 7 days parked at a postal center arrived so with the other not pictured bag of springs,3 types of balls, o-rings and seals I should have what is required to complete the pump.. after 3 days of searching found the vise online that had eluded me. and it was sorta on sale in package deal with another Item that I can use!!! I'll do an unpacking post when it arrives, but it should do fine for model work, at least the clamp mount casting does allow for bolting to the bench-top..
https://www.garrettwade.com/table-vise-anvil-set.html
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Looking into the future, here is what your vise will look like in a few years!
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looks like it has seen quite a bit service,, but at the rate you turn out work it's seen the use of 4 or 5 of the average craftsman.. if it has survived your shop it should do fine for me.. I do like the idea of getting the small anvil as it will stop me from using surfaces that should not be pounded on :hammerbash:
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had a few minutes of shop time today,, grabbed the opti-visor and turned the front cylinder covers, they will get a gland fitting soldered in place.. much like the steam chest..
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:ThumbsUp:
Mike
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for a little bit of self inspiration decided to lay out the progress so far (shop has been tidied up ready to get back to work)
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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put chips on the new lathe, made the start of the pump end cylinder covers,, first one took a while with setting up new cutters it the holders and adjusting for height(I added extra tool holders to my order) zeroed the DRO's as the part was getting finished, second one zipped right off in minutes..
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during lunch time today turned out another pair of parts,, one of the items with the new lathe is a 1/16" T shape cut-off blade, works very very nice.. next order will have a .040" thick one added to it..
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Looks like the new tools give clean parting off. Slim looks impressed. :Lol:
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Looking good :ThumbsUp: Please can you post a photo of the cut off tool :LickLips: Terry
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worth the extra money..
https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1728&category=202639332
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The ones I use are similar to that, but the wider part of the T on mine is about twice as tall - I like yours better, less to rub on the sides of the cut. Added to my shopping list...
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Thank you for posting parting tool pics. Regards Terry
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Anybody know of an English supplier ? Terry
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not much shop time for hobby work in the last week.. did get a few new toys for the lathe.. collet set for the spindle and a die holder for the tailstock.. decided to make the glands for the pump and steam cylinders,, between the DRO's, collets and die holder the job went very very fast.. slim seems happy about it all.. also added the longer bolts so my 4" 4 jaw will mount on the lathe..
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so much for the burst of work this week,, 4 stitches in a finger yesterday, have to keep it clean, at least it's not on my dominate hand..damn slim is laughing about "flesh wounds" :Mad:
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Take care of the finger ouch. Sorry to hear Slim's being such a bonehead about it. (er......not that he has a choice) :Lol:
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to alter a great line , slim is not that bad he's just molded that way
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmTbpyjt6DA
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did not drop off the edge of the earth... had some very busy work stuff and home stuff.. also about 2 months back a fb group for RAF boats of WWII came up that the last even remotely salvageable/restorable 63ft HSL type II (whaleback) was going to get removed and restored (it had been converted to houseboat and degrading for years) I built a 1/24th R/C model of one 35+years back and a few years back started on a 1/16th scale.. the new interest made me get the hull of the shelf and get work done.. kind of glad I waited as both my skills (I hope) and tools have improved.. today the rudders were made and mounted so the heavy work done and maybe I can get back on the steam launch next week..
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Nice to see you back + with yet another interesting project :cheers:
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Great work! The ball type AA turret is intricate. Sure would not want to see action in a full size one. (not that I could get more than one leg in a ball turret - they were not meant for 6'-2" hefty build metal workers) :Lol:
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the turret "bubbles" are such proud fittings on these boats they have to be correct.. has to be one of the best hulls ever designed, truely earning the "spitfire of the seas" title,, with the new lathe a fixture was made for aligning and mounting the motor mounts, the 3D printed 20mm mount was way thicker than needed and it was chucked up and thinned on the inside.. every gram counts..
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Hello tghs,
I cannot compete with a 63ft Type II HSL but I did get lucky, while serving my time at RAF Seletar in Singapore and got a ride on a 43ft RSL built by Vospers. Powered by two Rolls Royce engines, they were capable of a genuine 20Kts all day long in coastal waters.
Semi submerged teak wood logs (dead heads), floating down from the jungle rivers, were a big hazard, so the joy riders (that was me) were required to sit near the bow and keep a sharp lookout.
A truly exhilarating ride, which I still remember vividly, decades later.
Mike
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I feel really low about not getting back on the steam boat project,, "speedy metals" gave the weekly project spotlight.. the RAF whaleback HSL getting close to running,, Most likely will get finished as "186" as I may be getting a fragment of wood from the original hull.. just have to mount the batteries and ESC's as running gear goes, down to details deck gear wise.. I ordered up some acylic rod and tube to turn the lenses for lights, canal plastics, great service, great prices..
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On the turret domes, did you glue foil to it for the surface finish? Looks great! How did you do that?
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true aluminum duct work tape (not your average duck/duct tape), cut in thin strips,it holds better than most glues, it can be buffed to look like chrome (poor mans plating), in this case I presanded it so it will hold the black paint..
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true aluminum duct work tape (not your average duck/duct tape), cut in thin strips,it holds better than most glues, it can be buffed to look like chrome (poor mans plating), in this case I presanded it so it will hold the black paint..
I've got some of that stuff, never thought of it for this use. Nice!
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should be back at steam work in the next few days,, the heavy work in done on the RAF Whaleback and the shop has been somewhat picked up!!! (groat has been banished to the dark corners)
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Goody! :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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I think Slim may have gained a bit of weight! :Lol: shop and models look great!
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took me an hour this morning to remember what I was working on!!! made the 8 valve covers for the pump end,, they are all 1/4" x 40 thread,, they still need to get a hole to keep the spring in place, tapped the pump block, have to make some sealing washers thinking copper may be the way to go.. got slim back to work inspecting..
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Nice to see Slim (and you) back at it!
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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made a quick centering jig and milled the valve covers to fit and center the check ball springs..
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Looks like Slim had an accident with all those springs around - did he lose one of those cap-bolts and have a scare ... :thinking:
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slim is a bit on edge, says that groat the floor monster is in a bad mood since the shop floor was cleaned and most of his snacks went into the trash.. more drilling and tap and die work on the pump end.. getting close to moving back to the steam end and putting the main sections together..
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I forget the arrangement on the pump, is it driven from the crankshaft of the engine, or does it have its own piston to drive the pump?
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duplex....
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Yes very nice... what is the bore and stroke and did you make the castings or what is the source of the castings...... :cartwheel: :cartwheel: :cartwheel: and how big is it?
Sometimes a picture needs a few words.
Cheers Dan
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
That is one gorgeous pump! You and Slim should be proud of that one! :cheers:
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the photo is the real one,, hoping mine looks half that good,, for the basic design a set of cole's duplex pump plans was reduced by 1/3.. steam bores are 1/2" pumps bores are 5/16ths..
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a little catch-up as there was a time gap in the work, 1/6th scale US navy Worthington duplex steam pump for boiler make-up, the pump end on non-navy pumps are like the Cole's plan with intake and exhaust valves in a complex(but worked well) arrangement above the cylinders.. the Navy "sailor proofed" the pump with a simple arrangement of intakes below the cylinders and exhaust above, they added individual valve cover design for easy service.. the mounting in the boats was vertical.. ala Crueby, no castings are being used, kind of in the range of watch making to get the scale close to correct, these were small units in real life..
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working on the pump valve type today.. started with the cone type, but thought about a seated ball for better seating and sealing.. with use off a 1/8" ball end mill it was simple to make and looks like it should work well.. 7 more plus a few spares to make.. I have several material type of balls to test..
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I really like this design. I would have used a cone shaped seat even with a ball valve because it is easier to make a lap for a cone seat for future maintenance. I have lapped a few of these types of valves on merchant ships.
Cheers Dan
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Great looking parts, will be interesting to see which valve types work best. :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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I was looking for drawings of the Navy version of a Worthington duplex pump and did not find anything, but here is a link to the early history of the pump:
https://cdn.asme.org/wwwasmeorg/media/resourcefiles/aboutasme/who%20we%20are/engineering%20history/landmarks/final-mariners-asme-brochure-red.pdf
Cheers Dan
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the navy small boat worthingtons were rare little things, the design sacrificed the proven but complex pump for a simple unit that could be cleaned or serviced with few tools and in place (sailor proof). the biggest problem was the lack of use as these boats spent may have spent months in the cradles not in operation and then maybe a few days of work before another stowed period. My full scale steam contact who has worked on several of these does some "modern" mods to improve the operation.. modern O-rings added to valve faces in one
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This is quite an interesting piece on ball valves:
https://www.precisionballs.com/ball_valve.php
I have one of their ball laps for the delivery valves on my fuel injection pumps. It seems to do the job :)
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Roger, thanks for the good link on ball valves and laps, very interesting and useful.
Cheers Dan
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lots of great info, seeing that the pump block is brass, thinking I can turn a guided ball tool from steel and lapp in some seats to help the balls seat better..
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spent some time on the lathe today and produced parts that wouldn't even fill a thimble! turned a tool to lap the valve seats for hopefully better seating and less wear. slims starting to wonder when all these parts are going to get put together..
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hope to be back at this shortly,, the RAF boat in down to small details and paint.. looking again at my engine and thinking that the thrust box could be made functional,, thinking that a flat plate fixture to hold the halves with the center open so the disc recesses could be milled out with a keyway cutter in the mill? any other ideas..
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The two-halves method is how the one on the Sabino works - two halves for each collar section and bearing to fit in.
Here is a view of it together:
(https://i.postimg.cc/LsKK6bY6/Image7.jpg)
Here is an exploded view:
(https://i.postimg.cc/6Qrs7fnV/Image8.jpg)
The red center piece clamps tight on the crankshaft and turns with it. Either side of it are bronze bearing halves with sections of tube shapes that go into the gray halves, which are held by the horizontal rods either side. Those rods have big adjusting nuts to adjust the pressure on the red piece. All can come apart without removing the crankshaft, and no fixed disc on the shaft needed.
Hope that helps!
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very well explained
thanks for showing.
Greetings Michael
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Hi Tghs, glad to see that you are going to make the thrust bearing functional. It would be a pity to omit that after all the other wonderful work you are putting into the project. Even tragic.
And think of poor Slim. Hasn’t he lost enough, with out being put through the indignity of seeing the crankshaft pushed through the front of the engine by the propellor for lack of a functioning thrust bearing?
Still following quietly along. It’s beautiful work, skilfully executed.
MJM460
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started fitting up some of the main brass parts to the wood hull parts,, I've have collected all needed woods for the hull, plans are to build this winter..
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Beautiful shapes!! :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Reminds me off Classic Huls out of the water seen around the Harbours in my youth :ThumbsUp:
I hope that you will post some of the progress here :cheers:
Per
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building with the period correct woods can be a challenge, the white oak is tough stuff!!! to get the shaft bore done had to break-out some metal tools, made a centering fixture and drilled 1/4 pilot holes from each end, auger drilled to open up the hole, big reamers and rasp to get it up to size.. finished size 9/16ths to fit a 1/2" shaft tube,, still deciding on shaft size 1/4 vs 5/16ths will have to see what bearings are available, the prop end of the shaft tube will have a enlarged end to fit the rudder shoe fitting , this will allow for fitting a bigger bearing and seal..
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added some brass to the shoe tip so it could be drilled for the rudder pin,, a little percussive engineering to get the correct fit,, needed to bed the fitting to the keel section without filling the shaft bore with epoxy.. turned a balsa shaft to keep the bore clear..bungie cord can make great clamps for odd shapes..
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... a little percussive engineering to get the correct fit...
Love that term! :killcomputer:
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the horn on my bench anvil and a small brass hammer worked nicely,
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with the heavy stern keel work done, started the heavy work on the bow sections and fitting the brass cut-water,, not much fun working the oak here also, thinking I should have made a 1/6th scale adze ::) ::)
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My first reaction to those last two pictures was 'hey, he stole my sailboat stem!' :Lol:
One thing that was done on some traditional boats was to build up inside where the planking goes by adding filler pieces, like the two shown behind the stem here:
(https://i.postimg.cc/q7srGrhY/100-0350a.jpg)
here they are installed and faired in:
(https://i.postimg.cc/SsmhTPcK/100-0355a.jpg)
then the shallow notch is cut in to take the ends of the planks. This method gives a winder landing for the plank ends and screws without having to cut such a steep notch in the original stem
(https://i.postimg.cc/FRGQ2xxV/100-0390a.jpg)
You are doing a great job - this summer you need to start on the full size launch hull!
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I'm fortunate that there is a facebook page for the restored 40ft USS New Jersey steam launch, it has photos of the entire restoration.. I'm also in contact with the master that did most of the engineering work on the boat,, he blessed me today with a period drawing that shows the prop to shaft mounting used, tapered shaft with keyway, conical nut matching prop hub curves..
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Awesome. Can't beat direct info on the real thing!
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Impressive draughtsmanship / tracing, especially the curves of the projected impeller blades, where you can hardly see any joins.
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a little clean-up after a night in the clamps, all the brass fits after some more "tuning".. have to make the 5 long through bolts that hold all these parts in place.. should have made the 1/6th adze for slim!!! don't know if he has the muscle to swing it.. :Lol:
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did a little dremel engraving to give the boat its hull number, added the bull nose sections and top plate,, might try to engrave the numbers a little more..
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Hello tghs,
Some nice, old school, boat building under way there. :Love:
Did you ask Slim to give you a hand? Or did you give him one of those sharp chisels to play with? He seems to have lost his right hand. :facepalm:
Mike
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he took a part time retail job, but couldn't keep his hand out of the till!!! :facepalm:(it was found under a clamp on the bench and has been returned)
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started working on the scale special fasteners that hold the cut-water,stem and sling support all together.. 2-56 threaded rod and nuts, silver solder...
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Great details! :popcorn:
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Very unusual! They certainly spared no expense on these boats. I'm used to drifts and roves for piecing up timbers! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
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during this time frame the US navy was a world onto themselfs. almost everything was done in house or contracted to their plans.. they didn't want to be at the mercy of others supply chain issues. kind of amazed they didn't have there own thread standards..
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I hope the builder put some tallow on those threads, or I don't think a flat head screwdriver would be taking them out again.
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I often am amazed about the amount off details on this build .... so I have to remind myself that the scale is 1/6 and that it was a big boat (not ship) :)
How ever - I still enjoy this build a lot :Love: :cheers:
Per
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I hope the builder put some tallow on those threads, or I don't think a flat head screwdriver would be taking them out again.
the restoration photo's of the 1910 40ftr never show the cut-water removed, don't know if they tried or just decided the stem was solid enough to leave in be..
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I often am amazed about the amount off details on this build .... so I have to remind myself that the scale is 1/6 and that it was a big boat (not ship) :)
How ever - I still enjoy this build a lot :Love: :cheers:
Per
thanks, the bigger the scale forces the details, plus I do want to make the hoisting fittings usable, might be an easy way to move this boat.. this weekend I get brave and calculate the approximate weight :help:
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checking some of the back pages of the 1900 navy boat book a page listed the preformance test of the 5 sizes of steam cutters..it was the source for the hull number I used, but it also listed the operational displacements.. the 30ftr displaced 10811lbs, using the cube method the model should be just over 50lbs
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Interesting that the 28 footer was slightly faster than the 30 footer. Since speed of a displacement hull is limited by waterline length, wouldn't you expect the opposite?
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The waterline length limits speed, but available power vs shape may mean you don't reach that speed. Also, sometimes the listed length is overall, not the waterline length, which is the key thing for speed.
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Yes, I'm assuming they are similar designs, but maybe not. They do both seem to have similar power.
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The longer one also weighed 1000 pounds more, and was running with lower pressure. Doesn't say what prop diameter and pitch was, nor width of hull or fineness of stem and stern. Many factors effect speed, including windage on superstructure.
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It's generally taken as a factor times the square root of waterline length. That factor isn't fixed but varies through a small range and depends on the wave system generated. Manipulating that factor has been the basis for racing sailboat design for well over a hundred years.
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Absolutely correct. Though it gives a theoretical max, assuming you can give it enough power. I remember canoeing alongside a friends college age son one time. Same size canoes, but my 1-MAE (middle age engineer) power was no match tor his 1-CAA (college age athlete) power, he disappeared in the distance! :Lol:
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a remake of the cutwater bolts,, went with 3-48 thread, didn't use threaded rod, rigged a way to hold the tiny die on the unimat SL so threading the small rod went great.. rereading a plan section made this closer to correct scale,, finally loaded and tried out my 5.99 pickle pot,, cleans things up much better.. much happier with the results today..(might even pass slim's inspection)
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By pickle pot, you mean Slim's new hot tub? :Lol:
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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What do you use for the pickle solution?
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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powdered mix from rio-grande jewelry supply, I keep a running list so when I have to have something I'll have a few things to fill out the order..
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trying to come up with a thrust box system,, my prop shaft stuffing tube will have a bell end so larger bearings and a seal can be fitting.. thinking that a round box fixed to the other end of the shaft,, inside will be a disc/drum set screwed to the shaft and thrust bearings, shims and washers as needed, shaft will be 1/4"..
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On the oil tube, if possible get that up above the waterline. Or, on one of my RC tugs I put standard grease fittings on the top of that tube so I could pump in regular bearing grease. Did that since an earlier one let just enough water in to the tube to dilute the oil, and it was tough to get it cleared out.
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I will press on section of flexible tube that will lead up to rudder gear hatch on the stern deck... always make a plug (fine thread machine screw) for your boats oil/grease tube an open tube is like a vent that says " hey water, come on in" :facepalm:
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parts arrived so the shaft tube building is underway, bell ended to fit a bigger bearing and seal at the prop end, used the unimat SL1000 to cut the internal groove for the bearing retaining snap ring in the bell, having fun with the lathes, both ends of bell are beveled, shaft end to take solder better, prop end to help with fitting the seal,, 1/4" for the shaft, very close to scale and better to get bearings and seals.. brass from the shop pile to make the thrust box, tube for the body, square ends so bolts at the corners hold it all together.. AVXseals provided fast service for the few small seals needed..
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Beatuifully done! I hope you look as pleased as Slim seems to (hard to tell for sure with him, not a lot of facial muscles but he appears to be smiling)
:popcorn: :popcorn:
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Really enjoying the progress and to see the beautiful parts made :praise2:
Also good to see that you are able to use a real oilseal to prevent water from getting in (I know that Chris is right about what Murphy sometimes do anyway) :ThumbsUp:
Per
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thanks all, double lipped shaft seal and a sealed bearing(SS with ceramic balls) boca bearing has an easy to use site!!! fill in your size and they list all the options..
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progress on the thrust box,, it will have a slot cut in the section that goes over the shaft tube so a clamp (yet to be made) will hold it place.. the center sleeve will be cut down by more than half once the distance of the bearings, disc and washers is set,, 4 spanning bolts at the corners will hold it all together..
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It all makes a little more sense.. spacers made, sleeve turned to length, port for lube and set screw access made.. all silver soldering for this done.. test fit with shaft all feels well and smooth.. an esty seller included a little token in my order (micro brass rivets and some 0-80 x 3/4" screws and nuts, very fast service) so I figured that Slim would get the symbolic shop key (only fitting it's a skeleton key!!!) I gave him the title of shop protector last year, if I don't keep him somewhat happy he might start asking for a raise (once he figures out he isn't paid)
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Love the parts, also love that Slim can now have his own shop key! That would actually be a fun project - a miniature padlock to take that key!
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Really nice work! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
That skellington is a ham.
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did a little fine filing and reaming on the thrust box.. you can now spin the entire assembly on the shaft and it just keeps spinning :whoohoo: working on more of the hull hoisting fittings that have to be installed before hull work can start, these three got all the hard corners rounded and a good bead blast to give them a scale cast look (soldered with the "tinted" silver solder) shopped some dollhouse builders sites to find more brass hardware to add to the pile, found some very very small countersunk woodscrews that will work perfect in a few spots..(the rudder shoe was held on with many screws)
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Wow, those hoist fittings came out perfect!
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thanks, forgot to add the before photo, shackle pin holes may need a little size adjustment
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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a couple small but needed parts today,, these guys go through the 3 keel timber sections so the hoisting is from the bottom.. mushroomed the rod ends (percussive machining) turned them for trueness, the holes in the plates were countersunk to match.. quick little silver solder run to hold all in place.. threaded BA5 because it works well with 1/8th rod (scale 3/4") and have the nuts and washers on hand!!!
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Looks like all the nice parts pass Slims Inspection, with brilliance :ThumbsUp:
Another great thing here is that Red-Metals are and has for centeries been used as is on the high Seas + some of the crew often will be told to keep them shiny ;)
Per :cheers: :popcorn:
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not metalwork but still fairly tough and heavy.. got a free 6ft x 8inch holly log, chainsaw to hog it down and time with my little bandsaw (2 buckets of damp sawdust) all stacked up to start air drying for a while.. might use this as scale ash as the grain in full sized ash doesn't look correct..
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Holly is great wood for the model, very fine grain. I used some on a couple models, the only drawback to it is the circular saw created a cloud of very fine dust when resawing it - have a vacuum going!
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It will be fun to see the final product and the process getting there.
Dave
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fitted the aft sling mount to the sternpost section,, lucky I have some extra long drill bits, they were needed.. will fit up the stem mount/cut-water brass next,, looking at how to make the hefty shackles that will be used with the sling.. thinking this will involve milling so flat brass stock to shape, turning the center round section, milling the ends for thickness and radius,, then hoping the blank can be bent and beat over a mandrel to shape.. (anyone else make any brass shackles)
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That stern section is looking great! (hmmm, I could get in trouble for saying that to most people... )
The only shackles I ever made were tiny ones out of wire, they should be interesting to do at this size. I like your idea of shaping it all out flat then bending it, would need some heat to take that much bend without cracking, so some sort of bending jig would be good, the reverse bend by the eyelets will get tricky.
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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I'm thinking of milling and turning a flattened barbell shape so the eye sections would be formed without bending.. agreeded that a form and mandril for the main bend will be needed.. will have to experiment with heating and anealing, sometimes brass has some strange limits..
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I just did the bending of the arms for the drain valves on my model, for a tight bend they did best when bent while hot, torch in one hand, pliers in the other to bend while heating (took torch away just long enough to bend), the small piece cooled quick so it took a couple reheats, could feel it bend easy then it would say Nope after about 20 degrees of bend. Didnt want to force and snap it, so put more heat on. For a large diameter bend its usually enough to just anneal and cool to handle, for small radius bends it wanted to stay hot or it would have taken a lot of cycles.
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not metalwork but still fairly tough and heavy.. got a free 6ft x 8inch holly log, chainsaw to hog it down and time with my little bandsaw (2 buckets of damp sawdust) all stacked up to start air drying for a while.. might use this as scale ash as the grain in full sized ash doesn't look correct..
May I suggest painting or waxing the ends. It helps to reduce shakes (splits) as the ends dry out faster, and there can be quite a lot of movement with holly as it dries.
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I have a can of pentacryl made just for this, the wood was very wet so I'm giving a few days of very slow drying,, will dip the ends today and restack it a dryer more air active space to start the real drying.. (I have 70 different enviromental chambers and a large drying oven at work, my job is to keep them all running)
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holly-wood taken care of,, found some copper tube close to the diameter of the shackle bend, annealed it and filled it with a smaller bendable copper tube and cerro-bend,, I'll mark the tube and bend to the basic shackle shape to help decide how to mark out the brass so the pin-holes end up the correct distance from the bend.. sounds like rain all sunday, good day to read, draw and plan..
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Sounds like a plan, though I'll wait for the pictures! :popcorn: :popcorn:
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marked the copper unit in tenths of inches and formed it to a basic shackle shape, I think it gives me a good eye center to eye center measurements for a flat layout on the brass to make the shackles.. while the calculator was out did the scale conversions for the side sling fittings.. these are complex things compared to the other fittings as they stradle hull boards..
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cleaned up the inside bow brass,, drilled it,the cut-water and the stem wood.. everything is all screwed together lightly so it can be removed during hull building, once the hull is built the parts will be bedded in with epoxy for the final fit..
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That is such nice work! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
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Beautiful, as always!
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for the hoisting fittings I saved the pair of gunnel fittings for last, they are by far more complicated than the others, slitting saw work, no-flow anti-flux to keep solder out of spots,, Ti clips to keep things in place,, jeweler's saw through 3/16ths brass (not a lot of fun) one completed the other one needs the saw, files and sanding work.. will be getting some fresh (northern) white oak to steam bend the stock for the hull ribs..
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Very complex fittings, very well done! Slim (and you) is really getting good! :NotWorthy:
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thanks, oh we're getting somewhere!!! :lolb: going to have to start making masters for the deck fittings that will be cast (cleats, canopy bases and others,
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Oh man - talk about hundreds of small details :o
Come to think of it (again) - scale 1:6 still makes it big enough for huge amounts of details :insane:
As long as you continue this great build - we will follow :cheers: :popcorn: :cheers:
Per
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Yup, following along also. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :cheers:
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Gotta love intricate brass "weldments" like that. Wonderful work there. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
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Looks like Slim found the key to happiness! (or to the spirit locker) :Lol: the soldered assemblies look great. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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I gave Slim the title of "Keeper of the Shop Key" it was much cheaper than giving him a raise ::) finished up the second fitting so thinking that all the "heavy" hull brass is complete,, fresh white oak for steam bending the stock for the ribs should be here next week, making the 28 or so blanks will take a while (a few minutes of work then a day of waiting, so maybe 2 blanks a day with two forms) so it will be time to get back on the feed pump and condensate pump.. the boiler and all the other fittings will start also.. thanks to all for following along on this never-ending project (it keeps me going :whoohoo:)
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more work with the non-metal stuff, fairly big pieces for model work..hope to use the table-saw to cut the rib mortices in the 2 main keel sections, should be able to invert the bottom piece attach the two together and saw them at the same time..
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Getting closer to planking it! Is this hull lapstrake or carvel?
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it's carvel,, still a long way off, waiting on my northern fresh cut White Oak to steam bend the rib stock (have to make the bending jigs, I think four shapes will cover the needs) I do have the boards of northern White Cedar that will be saw up for the hull planking..restoration photos of the 1910 40ftr navy steam cutter.. I do have the drawings for the water-cask, should be fun little weekend project..
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In case you have not steam bent (or water soaked/bent) white oak before, be sure not to have any steel in the pan/rack, or have hard water - any iron in the water will react with the tanins in the oak and turn it black! I found that out years ago when I used an old coffee can to seal up the bottom of the PVC pipe I used to soak ribs in, and the water and wood turned to blank ink. The water here has a lot of minerals in it, plus the metal of the can, were more than enough to cause it. If your water is hard, steam it with distilled water. Later boats I used white ash for the ribs, which bend really easy with just an overnight soak in water, and is not prone to the blackening problem. With either ash or oak, a thin brass band on the outside of the rib when bending will spread the forces out and reduce the risk of cracking on small imperfections in the wood.
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kind of fun to use the big tools on a model,, table saw made quick work of cutting the rib mortices, only a few to do with the hand saw.. yes I know about oak and other woods with iron in the mix,, I can actually run my steamer with RO water (we use 500 to 1000 gallons per day here at work) I have lots of scrap materials around here to build the steam box for this job, plus the wood for the jigs and strapping.. might try bending into a curved jig to see how well it does ..slim approved the saw work!!!
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Nicely done! And Slim sure is limber! :Lol:
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Does slim have a tiny caulking mallet and iron?
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I'm going to wait till the hull was planked before I tell him.. ::)
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you can never have enough clamps,, slim given the job of watching the glue dry...
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Can't Slim be given a case of Lockjaw and put to work? :)
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Slim is pleased that the "backbone" is all starting to fit together,, a few sections need to be shapes with the plane.. should be back with metal work next week.. as for Slim working, he claims he has CLBS (Chronic Lazy Bones Syndrome)
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With the top/bottom halves of the keel glued together, how are you going to get the frames in? The inner keel is usually used to lock them in place once they are installed. :headscratch:
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they will come in from each side (may have internal tenon overlap) but along with the frames there is a floor timber connected to them that follows the frames about 1/3 of the way.. this keeps all in place,, I plan on steam bending 3/4" stock to get a frame blank,once the frame outline is cut it will be sawn in half giving a matched pair.. my thickness sander will take them down to the scale 1/4" thick..
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the keel is wide as boats go, the long mortice will allow the floor timber to pass through turn and lock in (a little rounding on oposite corners) the frames lock it all in place,, also all the bottom points of the frames and timbers are removed to make water passages so water won't get trapped between ribs, also 3 cross keel passages .. trying to stay true to the 1900 plans as much as possible.. the stem and stern sections were glued to the keel today and will sit in the clamps overnight under Slim's watchful eyes (not having eyelids helps)
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Great to have such detailed plans, right down to the limber holes. :popcorn: :popcorn:
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this 1900 standard designes for navy boats is a fantastic book, 15"x12.5"x1.5" I've had my gloved hands on one in a library rare book room, plans for everything from a 6ft work punt to a 40ft steam cutter,, pages for gear carried, hull furniture, staff heads and carvings.. I don't have it yet, but the deal has been cut.. the binding in the book I'm getting is gone, but this means the pages can removed and laid flat for scanning or photos.. (would hate to do this to a 123 year old book with a good binding)
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That's an amazing find! Sounds like it will be good for a bunch more projects.
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"Staving wash and cherry alternately" !
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lots of great wood.. during this period the navy was trying to make everything in America, guns,steel, engines ,boilers and castings.. along with this was use of non-imported woods.. some ironwood (lignum vitae) was used for shaft bushings and steering drum.. there is a plan sheet for the spindle seat supports and the boat chest..
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That's an amazing find! Sounds like it will be good for a bunch more projects.
the strange one that isn't in the plan book but there are a few scant photos and writing mentions was a 24- 28ft steam powered whaleboat,, looks like a small compound engine mounted off the centerline so the prop would be alongside the rudder.. small boiler placed off to the other side of the center to balance things out.. looks like 2 of these were made as a test..
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keel out of the clamps,, all looks straight,, fit it on the mill, drilled and milled for the hoist fittings.. cleaned off the building board and swapped out the profile for the overhead plan, (it's glued down so the keel and ribs can the fixed down during the hull build) with a long shaft in the stuffing tube checked alignment :DrinkPint: slim approves and said it was DEAD ON (he should know) and may get a bonus to his non-existing pay..
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Beautiful work and amazing detail, tghs. Thanks for showing us in your detailed posts.
I am learning lots to help improve my next model.
MJM460
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the needed fresh white oak lumber(northern Wisconsin, slow growth) for the ribs and other parts is on it's way.. working on a non-reactive steam box to keep the oak "white".. found the one photo of the steam whaleboat,1894.. she is an odd duck..
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after some shaft and bearing galling,, new SS shaft and bearings,, cleaned shaft tube,, a block was made for the shaft at the engine mounting point,, height, angle and center,, keeping the shaft long the tube was epoxied in place.. it lines up at both ends
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started drawing out the rib placement on plans,, lots of lines to get me confused and make mistakes.. added some colors to add some contrast and help keep me straight.. had to get a larger drafting triangle, this is going to be a big hull..
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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I hope that you got drawings for each individual Rib too - and not only the top drawing ....
Still enjoying to follow you and Slim's journey - Great build :praise2:
Per
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the plan set I'm working from is what the navy boat yards used!!!,, everydetail :whoohoo: the frame line drawing is for the frame edge without planking so that makes laying out the frames easier.. looks like 5 steam bending forms will be needed to make the blanks , I may make an extra of the main section so the steaming work can get done a little faster..
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So Yes (and No) .... as in you have the info to construct all the Ribs to the shape that defines the Hull :ThumbsUp: .... but not a complet individual drawing (as in how they actually looked) ....
a) sorry I forgot that you have shown these before :facepalm2:
b) I ought to have remembered the this was how it was done in the Olde Days :old:
c) So used to have / make much more detailed draqings today .... ;)
Per
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the midboat cross section gives ribs and floor timber plan..for the ribs it's just kind of repeating on the same theme,, 28 times.. then sawing them in half to get matched pairs..
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And beveling the edges to get the planks to lie fair on them...
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And beveling the edges to get the planks to lie fair on them...
both outside and inside on this hull!!!!
long flexible sanding boards/planks.. chalk or color the frame edges to monitor progress!!!(this hull might take a small belt sander :Doh:)
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Small finger planes like violin makers use are awesome for this kind of work too!
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:cheers: these showed up the other day and this set was ordered this morning,, the long one is 5" also have a small set of three planes and a couple of small spokeshaves..
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Nice! I have sets just like those. The black ones are the Lee Valley ones they came out with every Christmas, right? I got those one per year as presents. Also have several like these, with a variety of flat/curved soles and blades:
(https://i.postimg.cc/K8Y2SRNK/IMG-2994.jpg)
They have been very useful on lots of projects, from inletting flintlock barrels to backing out planks on kayaks and canoes.
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yep. lee valley set, I added a few other things to the order, micro hone guide, marking tool set and a hand vise.. this other little set of planes works well after some tweaks and tuning,, same with the spokeshave, the little drill is a 1880's millers falls jeweler's drill(I fitted a new shaft with chuck.. the nice little jeweler's saw was a 2$ garage sale find.. trying to get all organized this week
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.... and I who thought that the first ones where small .... and then Chris COMPLETELY Blows My Mind with the finger ones :o
Oh man they are cute + I love the small Metal Planes that looks somewhat like old Stanley Planes too :Love:
Per
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Its amazing how much material that smallest one can remove, with a lot of control.
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This discussion on little planes on prompts me to point anyone who does not know about him to this ultimate toolmaker: https://www.holteyplanes.com/
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wood has arrived,, nice northern wisconsin white oak, quarter sawn, very tight growth rings, should be very good for my needs , the lumber guy sent along some fine grain cherry and white ash :whoohoo: with the wood here started on the needed non-metalic steam box,, just need to add the fill,vent and drain ports plus make a simple stand for it..the sage moves along.. :insane:
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Getting close to fun bending work! What will you use for steam generator, teapot, commercial steam unit, locomotive?
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I have a wagner wall paper steamer, it's a great steam generator, I've used with a 5ft x 4inch dia metal duct pipe steambox (no insulation,, also worked great for de-icing a frozen refidgerator coil (twice until I replaced the bad master control board)
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a couple threaded fittings and a valve,, some quick tapping , four boards and screws with a little plane work to bevel the edges.. this part of the operation is ready to go!!!
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Slim looks like he is ready for his spa treatments...
How are you venting the steam? When building full size boats I would usually just put a towel over the end to let the steam bleed through.
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venting will be though the condensent drain tube,, it has a needle type valve so the rate can be controlled,, I told slim it was a sauna!!! he said he doesn't sweat... I told him he could stew!!
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pvc is not perfect to build a steam-box,, the threads of the vent fitting wouldn't hold in the heat and the fitting fell out.. but this is old simple tech and it seems to work.. first bend attempt into the curve was a fail!!! second attempt around the curve with double the steam box time seems to work,, should be able to get 4 ribs from this blank,, bottom corner will get a bar clamp on the next steam run..learning as we go..
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One old trick that works very well when steam bending is to put a strap around the outside to help hold the pressure of the bend evenly down the length and help prevent any weak or hard spots from splitting out. When working on full size boats I used a thin piece of brass flat bar, think it was 1/16" thick and 1" wide for that. I put it in the steam box with the wood so it was hot and would not cool the wood it was in contact with during the bend. Taken out of the box with the wood, one end clamped to the form, then forced the wood/brass sandwich down along the form and adding more clamps/wedges, and left with the wood to cool off. For thin strips on the model, a strip of the metal they use for banding loads onto pallets works well, though being more flexible it still works as long as you pull along with the metal.
Glad the first bend has worked! Some broken pieces are to be expected, doesnt take much of a flaw in the wood to cause a failure.
:popcorn: :popcorn:
Found this on Lee Valleys site, too large for model but shows the idea
https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/clamps/42173-veritas-strap-clamps-for-steam-bending
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I tried a formica strip but my wood blank was to thick for use,, (corrected on the next blanks that are soaking) used a big chisel to split the oak board along the grain lines and then blanks were made from these billets paying close attention to the grain on the outside of the bend.. should be able to get some metal strips cuts before the next steam run in a few hours..learning more as I go :happyreader: :happyreader: :facepalm:
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Have you ever watched any of the videos of Engel's coach shop when he's bending ribs/hoops for the horse-drawn wagons he makes/rebuilds? His set-up uses a uses a sheet-metal strap/backer that is used to pull the wood around the form. When you use clamps to pull the wood around the form aren't you more or less concentrating the stress at one location? Pulling on the sheet-metal seems like it would spread the stress evenly with the wood just going along for the ride. And the back of all of the wood is supported, not just where the clamps are located.
Don
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the first bent blank after some clean-up will work for frames further from center,, adjustments made to the bending set-up much better this time, will make a notched angle block so it hooks over the end to keep the clamp straight,, (it will get recut every few blanks as the angle changes) I did start with the hardest to bend frame first :Doh: slim watching the blank cool!!! (it's an important job as far as he knows)
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double happy day :whoohoo: :pinkelephant: the Lee Vally ordered arrived,, looks like very very nice and solid stuff... should help in the great deal of fine woodwork in my future.. still have to machine up a true router table for use with a VS dremel drive motor.. (fence, miter slot , vacuum port, feather boards)
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Wow, thats quite a bunch of fun tools! :cartwheel: For those who have not seen them, those are miniature but fully functional versions of woodworking planes - compare them to the size of the keys on the keyboard at the top.
Do you have their set of mini wood chisels? They are great, thick enough to be rigid but small enough to fit into small spaces when doing morticing and rebating.
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I Second Chris remark - they are lovely :praise2:
Per :cheers:
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didn't need more small chisels, have two model dockyard sets, lots of smaller carving tools,, some that I made using square concrete nails as metal (they are actually very good tool steel) about a month ago a lab finished a big project that was lots of work for us,, as a thankyou they gave us gifts that were picked out for each of us,, I got this set,, on the same line as cheap set of tools, but these are well made with good steel that holds an edge..
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Wow! You've got a passel of shiny new baby tools there! Those planes are so cute! I don't have a use for them, but now I have plane envy...
Kim
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I'll second the concrete nails. Some of my best small chisels and gouges are made from them. They make killer scribing knives too.
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Seems like concrete nails would crack... :Jester: Just kidding - they must be some sort of hardened steel? Did you have to re-harden them after grinding the blade end? Neat trick!
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propane torch to heat and beat them to the shape form you want,, grind and file as needed to refine them,, quench harden and temper,, stone and hone to finish,, turn some nice handles to fit your needs..
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Seems like concrete nails would crack... :Jester: Just kidding - they must be some sort of hardened steel? Did you have to re-harden them after grinding the blade end? Neat trick!
you could start putting the steam hammer to a little heavier work than nuts...
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spent the morning making paper swarf.. frame profile sheets were glued to mannila folder stock.. each of the main frames that socket into the keel were drawn out and the exacto knifed to make templates,, slow and tedius stuff.. (these will also help in cutting the next steam bending forms)
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forming out about 1 frame blank per day.. some of there will yield 4 ribs,,
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Nice progress :ThumbsUp: - even if you feel it is slow - it is progress + you should enjoy making them after all :cheers:
Per
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Terrific progress. And did you make it clear to Slim that these 'ribs' are boat ribs, not for a bigger replacement for him?!
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I make sure he knows he is easily replaceable (haven't shown him the four 1/6th figures that will be on the boat).. just had a co-worker help me with a bend, with the extra set of hands it was clamped and bent in under 20 seconds, went much better by far, time to make a second form as the frames start taking different curves for verses aft,, friday it will be 2 billets in the steam box :whoohoo:
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2 billets in the steam box,, going forward and going aft forms at the ready,, things should move a little faster now :ThumbsUp:
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Are you getting much springback when you take the bent pieces off the forms? How long are you leaving them in place?
:popcorn: :popcorn:
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the first few I was getting too much spring back, placed them in a bar clamp and then into a drying oven (yes I have a big drying oven here) and made them usable,, now I'm over-shooting the bend on the form a bit and it goes directly into the oven overnight (150F on the oven) getting very little springback after so they are just about dead on,, just learning as I go,, may remake a few frames with the better methods, will see when I start finishing ribs..
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spent some time this morning drawing out the patterns for the floor frames,, took longer than expected because I was getting help..
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"Gotta help daddy with his work! How could he get it all done without me?" ;D
Kim
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my custom made period correct navy boat flag arrived :whoohoo: Mike Allsop <Scaleflags@outlook.com does great work and will do custom work, design and size.. will have to turn and solder up the flagstaff mount/socket and maybe a desk-top block to hold it for the time being..(still bending frames :rant:)
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Flag looks great, but in 1890 there weren't there 43 stars.?
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navy boats used different variations of 13 star flags,, the stars showed up better from a distance than trying to fit 45+ stars on a small field,, there is a flag webpage dedicated to them.. most often someone finds one in attic and thinks they have a revolutionary war flag !!!!! :facepalm:
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Ah - fascinating!
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One learns something new every day on this forum. More on the 13 star naval ensign here...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ensign_of_the_United_States
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a little diversion while bending frame stock,, started on the flagstaff , there are several staff tops decided to do the one that would have a 3inch hollow brass ball, (scales to 1/2inch) turning a solid ball would be to heavy for the staff. annealed some brass sheet, used my dapping block set and a brass filling to help form the edges better,, cut and file to size, silver solder and a spin on the unimat to clean and polish... the rest will be a turned brass fitting with a section of brass tube soldered on.. have some nice ash billets cut to turn the staff.. Slim thinks he has a royal orb :lolb:
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Looks great! That would make a good start on a scale faberge egg too...
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Don't send Slim out in a storm with that, will you? :zap: :zap: :zap: :Lol:
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Looks great! That would make a good start on a scale faberge egg too...
my budget says I will stay working in brass
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Don't send Slim out in a storm with that, will you? :zap: :zap: :zap: :Lol:
I don't think he is overly cunductive!!!
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a little more brass work, sitting on a temp staff while the ash one gets turned and the socket base get made..
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Beautiful details! Slim is going to want a suit of brass armor now.
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Beautiful details! Slim is going to want a suit of brass armor now.
thats the blessing or curse of large scale and good plans,, will have to start making masters of parts that there are multipuls of (cleats, canopy support, oar locks and ect ect ect)
I'll make Slim hammers but he'll have to make the armor himself (maybe not, ping ping ping all day and night might get annoying)
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looks a little better sitting on an 18" fine grained ash staff (correct material as per the plans) used my new little planes to take the corners off the 22" ash billet,, could only get at 14" at a time on the lathe so it was taped at the chuck, once one part was done reversed the process,, cut off the ends that ran in guide tube in the tailstock, some fine hand sanding and light stain seems to meet slim standards..
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here is where all the boat plans come from,, 1900 navy boat standardization book, plans and details for 29 boats, from 40ft steam cutter to 10ft work punts.. a great full sized steam guy had 2 books and agreed to sell me one,, no more looking at so so digital photos I took in the rare book room :whoohoo:.. the 1900 printing and drafting is amazing!!!
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Slim looks happy with that beautiful flagstaff! maybe he'll lead the pipe and drum band with it, in the next 4 July parade! :Lol: :cheers:
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with most of the side projects completed while steaming billets it might be time to start cutting frames and floor timbers
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Looks like Slim's been busy! I thought HE had a lot of ribs..... :Lol: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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The content of the last picture should keep both you and Slim busy for quite som time, when you attach them to the Keel :ThumbsUp: :cheers:
Per
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started turning steam-bent billets into hull frames and floor timbers,, the profile cutting followed by thickness cutting looks like it will work well, bandsaw and sanders for the profile, bynre's tablesaw and thickness sander for the thickness.. new tools are great!!! :pinkelephant: first and largest frames done along with floor timbers,, getting 3 finished frames from each blank..
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took a day off to spend in the shop.. Slim claimed I was working him to hard and threatened a sit down strike, told him he doesn't do any work anyhow and sitting there is his normal activity.. except for a couple of shorter frames for and aft all the steam-bent frame are ready :whoohoo: still have the floor timbers to complete.. told slim to take the night off :cheers:
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Great progress on the ribs! Slim must think you are making him a big brother!
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Hi tghs, beautiful work on those ribs. This is really a master class in model boat construction.
Thanks for taking us all along on the journey.
MJM460
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thanks all, I've had years to think about how to do this boat (I normally make things up as I go along), lots of time to "gather" tools,, looks like a couple more billets will have to be bent for the floor timbers.. things should start moving well when the planking starts,, three nice fine grained white cedar boards are just waiting to get cut up :cartwheel:
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hopefully this steam bending run will be the last for the hull frames and timbers,, 3 more floor timbers should be able to come from this billet.. may be I can step away from these three for a while.. :insane:
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madness working :whoohoo: after adding a 1/2" thick spacer to the building board the first test fit of keel to ribs and floor timber all look good, I'll get about 6 or so frames placed before starting to glue things..
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Great to see the first Ribcombo installed :ThumbsUp:
I'm trying to figure the assembly sequence ....
Do you start by inserting the 'Short Bottom Rib' into the hole and wiggle it into position - followed by the 'Big Half Ribs' (one from each side) .... :noidea:
Per :cheers:
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you are correct sir :DrinkPint:
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Great to see it going together! Really going to change the look quickly now as the ribs go on.
Is Slim humming the tune to "The Keelson bone's connected to the... rib bone..." :Jester:
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Slim's been using the grip exerciser this winter eh? He handled setting that big orange clamp pretty nicely. :Lol: :cheers:
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couldn't resist and set the ribs in place..
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Wow! That looks great! You're going to have a boat hull there soon! :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Kim
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A forest of ribs! Great!
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9 frames have been final adjusted and fitted with floor timbers.. dropped my B&S dial caliper, it's toast :cussing: :Mad:,, might have to make a harbor fright stop to get some more small spring clamps..
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Their clamps are good, but don't bother with a dial caliper from HF, been there, tried that, twas crap.
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HF for the clamps,, found a lightly used B&S of the same model online for a good price...
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floor timbers all fitted, nothing glued or pegged yet but it starting to feel pretty solid,, little vise on the bench is working out great..
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That is looking great! Gotta be fun to use the model bench to help build a model.
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Wonderful progress! :popcorn: :ThumbsUp:
Did you ever make that Harbor Freight run for more little spring clamps? :Lol:
Kim
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Wonderful progress! :popcorn: :ThumbsUp:
Did you ever make that Harbor Freight run for more little spring clamps? :Lol:
Kim
/quote]
2 x 22ct tubes, should be enough for a bit :naughty: aslo have 2 B&S dial calipars incoming one NIB(expensive lesson :facepalm:).. and about 22 small C-clamps are on order..
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Impossible to have too many clamps...
(https://i.postimg.cc/prjN6sZ7/100-0411.jpg)
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Wonderful progress! :popcorn: :ThumbsUp:
Did you ever make that Harbor Freight run for more little spring clamps? :Lol:
Kim
2 x 22ct tubes, should be enough for a bit :naughty: aslo have 2 B&S dial calipars incoming one NIB(expensive lesson :facepalm:).. and about 22 small C-clamps are on order..
Excellent! As Chris says, you can never have too many clamps! :ThumbsUp:
Kim
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fitting the bow and stern ribs, the 22 C-clamps arrived 12 1inch and 10 2inch,, The new in box B&S dial caliper arrived and is as listed, very nice :cartwheel: this one will stay in the small shop,, the used one will be my drag around one (but I will put edge strips on my flat plywood cart tops so nothing slides off again)
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teeth cleaning this morning so I lost my early morning work time,, did get the last 4 stern end frames roughed out.. frames 1 and 2 still to do on the bow end.. close to getting towards the fairing and planking.. happy with the new toy..
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Looking great!
I think you mentioned once but I forget - is this going to be Carvel or Lapstrake planked?
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carvel...
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frame making is officially done :cartwheel: mold boards, glue + pegs and planking to start monday.. Slim is claiming "he's been framed" I told him to more careful where he takes his many naps :cheers:
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: It's looking great!
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Quite the forest of frames there! :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Kim
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I did not realize the scale of this project. It's really coming along nicely!
Todd :popcorn:
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That looks amazing! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: Once some stringers are on it will make it a lot more rigid against the forces of the planking/fairing. :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Leave that file near the hull, maybe Sllim will take the hint and file away one of the bars of his cage! :Jester:
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the adding of the 4 mold boards should help solid things up,, nothing glued up yet and it's surprisingly solid,, once the waste ends of the frames get hot glued to the building board should make a big improvement. no stringers were used as per the plans, but some temporary stringers or battens might come into play, some temp formers will be added between ribs around the curves of the fantail stern. the shear plank is white oak, plan is to make tagboard templates for a good fit and steam bend to a close fit,, also to fit both sides at the same time,, will have to see what methods the white cedar hull planking will require,, building to the plans with frames spaced at 2 inches should help in the planking (plus all those cute little planes in the workbench drawer) :cheers:
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the four mold boards have been fitted, even without anything glued it's amazingly ridgit..
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That is a rather complex shape and I think it will be a handsome model :ThumbsUp:
I hope that Slim doesn't end up glued Rib-2-Rib - looks like he should be careful :Director:
Per
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they were actually a cross between a sleek cutter and a barge!! designed for good preformance while still being able to carry a good load and tow.. photos show them towing multipul rowed boats.. slim can get into trouble because you can't tell if he is fast asleep in one of his many naps!!!
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no longer a collection of parts and pieces, frames glued to the keel, frame ends hot glued to the work board!!!
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Great progress! :popcorn:
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That framing job brings back some memories! What are you going to plank her with?
Dave
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Looking great! Slim looks pleased with it. :cheers:
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That framing job brings back some memories! What are you going to plank her with?
Dave
/quote]as per the navy plans the sheer plank and inside clamp plank are white oak,, the main hull body is planked with eastern white cedar,, still have more of the oak a boat builder in WI sold me, and newfound woodworks of NH sold me 3 selected for fine straight grain white cedar boards..
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told slim it would be just like a day at the beach (maybe a little rougher) made a group of long sanding battens, should help fair these frames a little faster..
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one side mostly faired, need work on the stern and skeg area,, adding handles to the big flexy sanding board helped speed things up..
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :cheers:
Slim's been working his fingers to the bone with all the sanding! :Lol:
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Great job on the fairing! Are the bulkheads just for steadying things for construction on the model, or do they stay in place in the completed hull too?
And CNR - fingers to the bone? :facepalm2: :lolb:
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the 4 mold boards/bulkheads are just there to keep things in place during the fairing and planking...
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(sorry for worst pun ever. At least Slim was grinning... :Lol:) :embarassed:
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At least Slim was grinning.
How can you tell? I think he looks like he's ALWAYS grinning.
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template day for the white oak sheer planks, used some very flexy plex I had on hand, flexed to the frames well so it could be marked.. lots of band saw time, templates- thick white oak- re-saw for plank thickness.. (I never know what's on Slims mind, he just always has that judgemental smirk!!)
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And the fun(ner) part begins! :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Still following and enjoying what I see and I hope you enjoy the challenge - the result speaks for itself :praise2:
Per :cheers:
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framework has been faired, planking can start next week :whoohoo:
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Fairly done! :Jester: The bow shape looks easy to plank, the stern looks like it will be a bit of a challenge with more twist to the planks. Watching along!
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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I have the 40ftr photos as a guide,, it's complex but seems to have a natural flow to it,, this is why the sheer plank has to be correct!!!
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Very sweet curves! That sheer plank has quite a compound curve to it. I bet when spiled out flat the hull planks back there will have some interesting s curve to them, but nothing too extreme. Looks like a nice slipperyv hull shape, should be fast. :popcorn:
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walking or working the plank this morning, between the tablesaw and bandsaw the needed white cedar planks plus extra were zipped of in 45 min this morning, what a pleasure to cut compared to the lasts months dealing with white oak.. Plus now the shop smells great!!!
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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bending the white oak sheer planks,, a good long hot hot water soak, help from the custom "bending iron" and lots of clamps, slim is in charge of watching the bends set...
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Thats a super tight bend, nice! Adding the heat to coax it around takes some finesse. I can see Slims muscles bulging to hold it in place! :Lol:
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Slim did a fine job setting those clamps. Beautiful start to the planking! :cheers:
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why you never have enough clamps!!!
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and just like magic it jumps from the flat plan to starting to show her lines
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Question - I always thought that one stated applying the 'Planks' from the Keel and upwards .... But that is not the case here - so are there any 'Rules on how to' ?
Per :cheers: :popcorn: :cheers:
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so are there any 'Rules on how to' ?
It is common to start from both the top and the bottom and then finish with a "shutter plank" in the middle. Usually at or just below the waterline. The final plank does not have as many options for clamping, so it is best if it is not a seriously twisted shape.
Gene
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I'm kind of in the I don't know for sure zone :headscratch: been studying the restoration photos of the 1910 40ftr for the correct planking pattern. I know that the sheer plank was mostly the same width along the hull. setting the steam formed sheer planks has made the framework solid as can be without distortion, now will come the fun of spieling the hull planks from the keel to the shear.. the white cedar should be a little more friendly to work with than the oak.. worst of all the navy fit and finish standards are that the planking lines don't show (lots of white lead putty) but I'll know it's there :facepalm: the boat in the photo below was most likely finished to even a higher standard..
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Very common to go from both sides in to the middle on a Carvel planking hull, that way it ends with the easiest plank to bend and shape - its also the hardest one to clamp in place since no place to put clamps like on the rest.
On a Lapstrake hull, where the planks all overlap each other like on a house roof, planking has to start at the keep and move upwards.
In either method, its usual to do the same plank either side of the hull, then move on to the next pair, so stresses against the framing are kept even. That prevents the frames from being pulled to one side durin ght eplanking, making a boat that wants to go in circles!
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I'm kind of in the I don't know for sure zone :headscratch: been studying the restoration photos of the 1910 40ftr for the correct planking pattern. I know that the sheer plank was mostly the same width along the hull. setting the steam formed sheer planks has made the framework solid as can be without distortion, now will come the fun of spieling the hull planks from the keel to the shear.. the white cedar should be a little more friendly to work with than the oak.. worst of all the navy fit and finish standards are that the planking lines don't show (lots of white lead putty) but I'll know it's there :facepalm: the boat in the photo below was most likely finished to even a higher standard..
Are you going to get a strand or two of oakum to caulk all the plank seams with? Going to put in the slight 'v' on the corners for it, or make up the planks tight fitting to give the look of an already caulked hull?
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just going for the finished hull look.. want to make sure the plank to plank joints are as solid as can be.. (before the epoxy with fibers goes on the inside and the epoxy on the outside)
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Thank you for the answers Gentlemen :ThumbsUp:
Re - Lapstrake hull - that makes sense .... quite impossible to go the other way round ;D
Perhaps also why I thought you always started from the Keel :old:
Per :cheers:
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first and most complex hull plank done (for that side) the white cedar bends and form nicely after a hot water soak and some time with the heated iron,, things should speed up as some of the planks will need very little forming..
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Excellent garboard plank! You (and Slim) should be proud!
What are you using for glue?
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titebond III,, had to make a few patterns to get the fit,, the little LV planes work great on the cedar :whoohoo:
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Great lookin curves and fit on those first two planking pieces! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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away from the shop, but still working,, some surfing today found #0, #1 and #2 brass flat head wood screws wich should be both period and scale correct :cartwheel:,, crosshead screws came out in the 1930's,, also believe I have come up with a method that will allow the main deck and rear seating area to lift off with nearly invisable lines so the hull internals can be accessed :noidea: :headscratch:.. the 40ftr restoration photos have been a great help
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Old photos like that are a great find! Really helps with all the little pieces that the plans usually don't show. :popcorn: :popcorn:
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I saw that picture and thought "Boy, he's made a LOT of progress while I wasn't looking!" I've planked a couple of model ships and I found it takes a LONG time. sp I was very surprised at how far you'd gotten! Then I read the text and understood what it was. :Lol:
Nice to have those pictures for sure!
Kim
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not that much progress,, garboard and floor planks done, might be able to get two planks per side per day, starting the spiling of planks for correct fit,, the little Lee Valley planes are making this fun,, shorter plane set to take things down quickly- long plane set fine to true the final line ( bench is proving pretty handy also).. they are on the list of tools I should have bought years ago :facepalm:
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Looking great! And Slim looks happy sitting there in the curls.
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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still planking, did get my original colorized penny post card of the Mare Island navy boat shop, a little clearer than repo photos.. does give a full view of the prop blade shape.. Slim tried his best to match the pose but this is the best he could muster,,we'll try it again once the prop has been ground, trimmed, trued, bored and polished..
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Great old picture!
And a Prop-er picture of Slim! (had to beat CNR to that one... )
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
I think your pun was very a prop riate Chris! :Lol: :facepalm: (yep, you beat me to the pun ch)
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WHAT is that horrible stench? Is it Punday already?
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WHAT is that horrible stench? Is it Punday already?
Punday is any day that ends in Y. :Jester:
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getting hopeful that this hull will be planked-out next week..samples of the scale wood screws arrived, :whoohoo:they will work, Slim's hand is scale to the work.. (I ordered more) had a little time (planks drying) figured this hull will need a place to sit once it's off the board!!!
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Planking is really speeding along, looking great!
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Good progress and I see that you got the 'Dry Dock' ready for when the hull will be ready for Keel down :ThumbsUp:
Fidley small screws - better keep a Tub under to catch the dissapering ones ;)
Per :cheers:
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Good progress and I see that you got the 'Dry Dock' ready for when the hull will be ready for Keel down :ThumbsUp:
Fidley small screws - better keep a Tub under to catch the dissapering ones ;)
Per :cheers:
Yesterday I dropped a 2-56 nut off the bench - heard the usual 'tink' as it hit the floor the first time, but didn't hear the rest of the 'tink tink roll' that is usual. Spent a few minutes looking for it, then realized what had happened. It bounced off the floor once, went up under the cuff of my right leg, and into the opening of my shoe by my ankle! :facepalm: Glad it wasn't a sharp wood screw!
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thinking that I may need to make some simple micro profile countersink bits to use with these little wood screws :headscratch:
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thinking that I made need to some simple micro profile countersink bits to use with these little wood screws :headscratch:
If you do, you will definitely need stop collars on them, going too deep with the cutter could be disastrous. I have sets that I got decades ago when building full size boats, but they only went down to a #6 wood screw, not a #0! Those are the type with a tapered drill bit and an adjustable position countersink/collar. For the model size, I would think you would need to drill for the screw shank, then have a countersink with a smooth post the size of the drilled hole to guide it? :noidea:
Are these screws for the interior panels, coamings, etc?
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Would it be possible to regrind a small drill bit to have a 82 (90 metric) degree tip angle ? I think I would want to use that by hand in a pin vise. Would only take a twirl or two.
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was planning on using the age appropriate little drill...
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thinking of starting with a drill bit the diameter of the screw head, my Quick change tool post for my unimat has a dremel holding fixture so precise grinding is possible, after the shape is ground a drilled short section of brass rod can be loctited in place as a depth stop so no "overdrilling" can happen,, maybe set the stop back a little so a delron washer can be added making unit non-marring.. :thinking:
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Sounds like a good plan.
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Slim trying his best to convince me he's working..
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Does Slim keep telling you that you missed a spot? It seems he is saying something there! :lolb:
:cheers:
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he's more judgmental than a cat :Director:
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Wait till he's asleep and paint his arm to look like woodgrain. Hmm, how to tell he's seleeping without eyelids... ?
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Wait till he's asleep and paint his arm to look like woodgrain. Hmm, how to tell he's seleeping without eyelids... ?
Maybe he snores ? :Lol: anyway, love the woodgrain idea! suitably evil. :LittleDevil:
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At this stage, shouldn't he be using a plane to fair the hull and not sandpaper? Or at least a long sanding board?
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he might be able to use one of my sanding boards as a surfboard :cheers:
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Slim obviously need to build his own sanding board so he can be of some actual help. Maybe if you left some abrasive nail files laying around he'd get the idea?
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due to small long reach C-clamps not really existing the last planking could not be done, so it was declared "off the board" day.. a friend, two heat guns and a little time made the hot glue give up it's hold on the hull.. just had to set things in place to get the look of things..
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Sweet looking hull!! You and Slim need to practice your pirate accents, but no titanic reenactment!
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Really start to look like a Hull that can float :ThumbsUp:
Oh and nice shape too :cheers:
Per
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: the hull's looking great. :cheers:
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thanks all :cheers: after the last planking gets installed the deck line will get finalized and the deck framing can start.. more steaming, bending and the little router table will start it's work.. the metal work will get going again as the steam pump needs completion and a large amount of stuff has been collected for the bioler and tanks..
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Very nice drawings you're working to. Fun to see them. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
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Stumbled over these, perhaps of interest:
https://prestonservices.co.uk/item/us-navy-type-g2-compound-marine-engine/
https://prestonservices.co.uk/item/usa-made-compound-marine-engine/
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thanks,they have had those for a while, have the photos in my files :cheers:
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lots of sanding, seem filling , more sanding and a good coat of heavy primer (most of which will be sanded off) calked the seams with PC-11 epoxy paste (materials list on the real boat listed oil putty 25lbs, wood-filler 20lbs plus almost 200lbs of white lead) gave the inside planks a good coat white epoxy resin with fiberglass fibers, tinted to match the lead color in the specs.. Slim avoided the work so not to become to attached to the project,,,
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Looks great! Even more sanding dust in your future... Very interesting hull shape, I'm struck b y how similar it is to a steam tugboat.
:popcorn:
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: That's a beautiful hull!
Slim must be tired out from sanding, maybe he's grabbing a nap under the bench. :Lol:
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Time for a little celebration for the milestone you have reached with the build :cartwheel:
You and Slim should give each other a pat on the back and enjoy the wonderful Hull :Love:
Per :cheers:
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working on leveling the frames inside for the fitment of the clamp boards,, need a nice fit as planning to use the line between the waterway and decking as a separation point so the deck can be removed for internal access.. slim is back to quality control..right angle dremel head roughs things out nicely.. exacto spokeshave is mostly useless,, LV scale spokeshave is in shipping..
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Beauty (again) (still). That little spokeshave is just the right size for Slim to use. I never tried one of those right-angle heads for the Dremel, does it work out well? Any limits on speed or force compared to the normal straight-out end?
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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for this application it's working great, only running about half speed so the course sanding drum is cutting and not burning :Mad: it just threads on so if you put to much load on in the wrong direction it will loosen. :facepalm: I can set the angle body on the frame next to the one being worked and it will act like a guide.. anything helps with the oak,, note the large array of home made sanders :cheers:
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made, bent and clamped the clamp boards in place,, start laying out the beams, knees and timbers.. cut a disc the size of the boiler and set it per plans, my engine is just under 2" longer than scale, model vs real and the navy made these engine as compact as possible.. I couldn't shorten the ST block anymore than I did and the steam valve chest were the same!! looks like the engine space aft bulkhead will go another inch aft and the boiler will move an inch forward.. made the adjustments to the clamp boards.. branded the keel for select frames to keep me from messing-up)
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Capt. Jack Slim is looking right at home!
What will the fuel for the boiler be, and how will you insulate things to keep from harming the epoxy/etc in the hull?
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it will be gas fired, the navy plans have the boiler mounted on top of the thin flat copper feedwater tank, I will attempting a model version of the ward watertube boiler,, it will have an inner and outer casing with a layer of ceramic insulation.. close to each side of the boiler are the steel coal bunkers..
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grabbed the great section of hackmatack a woodsmith/boatbuilder selected for me,, trimmed it down and then sectioned it with the re-saw fence on the bandsaw,, switched out to the narrow blade and roughed out the needed knees and corners, also prepped the stock for the bilge boards.. new little spokeshave arrived, just as nice as the other little tools..
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Oooh, hackmatack! Perfect wood for the knees, was used on the real thing. I used some on a couple boats years ago. Another option that looks same with finer grain is apple wood, chunks from where branches meet the trunk have the right grain for knees.
:popcorn: :popcorn:
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what I though I could do in a couple of hours took all morning plus... but the engine mounts are tacked in place with some dots of super glue. they'll get epoxied before I quit for the day.. quality control Slim is trying his best to find flaws!!!
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started setting some of the floor beams.. using guide blocks the rest on the wide flat keel top, cut the beam and shape till it rest evenly on the block, mark the positions, remove the block, glue and clamp.. should have level beams for the planking to rest on..
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Excellent! Slim will be dancing the hornpipe on that deck in no time. Well, once he learns to dance, and you learn to play the music, that is...
Will the decks be removeable?
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yes, going to try to make the floors and main deck removable...in the forward area there are port and starboard benches/lockers that if done correctly will give a nice space.. there will be a lot of things to get to, plans are to make the steering funtional by driving the drum with a servo, so the cable system will be in place,, also toying and figuring with an interesting R/C control of the engine :thinking: :cheers:
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Slim might be thinking "if I grabbed a piece of plywood these cleats would be a great spot fer a nap..." :Lol:
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a little metal work, sort of,, bedded in the rudder tube fitting.. filed down the keel lifting fixture bases so the false keel strip could be added,, thick primer coat has been mostly sanded away.. hope to bed in the brass cut-water fitting to the bow today...
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a little more bedding of parts to the hull.. Slim seems pleased, told him he could watch the epoxy cure over the weekend!!!
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:ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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brass angle section arrived (yes metal :whoohoo:), this will become the boiler keelsons, mounted to the frames with formed brackets,, shaved, chiseled, rasped and sanded the frames/timbers level where the mountings will go.. bedded in the two blocks where the keel condenser pipes will pass through the hull, cut-water and false keel strip planed and sanded for final shape,, other parts got shimmed and deadwood installed..
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Busy times! Looking terrific. :popcorn:
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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clamp boards and the 3 main cross beams installed.. the temporary cross beams removed,, things are looking better.. adding clamp boards removed any gunnel flex there was in the hull..
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hot humid and dead still here today,, not a good day for yard work, but a good day for drawing in the A/C.. with the boiled keelsons getting made it was a good time to work on boiler base plans to make sure all fits,, the base/ash area is actually a complex thing.. Used a new to me close to period correct compass.. looks like I'll get to use lots of my tools including the metal rollers,, due to size most will do on the mill with the rotory table,, to big for the lathe.. also did some photo copier "drafting" for the steering cable pullies,, plan is to have the cables work with a servo turning the steering cable drum..
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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bilge boards installed in hull, a friend donated the thicker brass plates that will become the main boiler base rings.. Slim as usual is sitting on "his" brass, I told him, "make sure it doesn't walk away!"
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
I'd say the brass is safe while Slim's on watch! :Lol:
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Glad that Slim is guarding the brass from invading shop elves (hey, where ARE my elves, anyway?? ) :Lol:
Are you planning on building the boiler in the same internal style as the original? Its a water-tube boiler, right? Looks like a complex project in itself! :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Yes a watertube boiler is planned,I've been doing lots of reading and drawing.. some testing of forming the D shaped bottom ring,, as things sit now 32 down or wall tubes and 12 field tubes.. a more standard boiler has also been drawn out,, the 1/6th scale does work to my advantage as the parts are not that small :cheers:
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Yes a watertube boiler is planned,I've been doing lots of reading and drawing.. some testing of forming the D shaped bottom ring,, as things sit now 32 down or wall tubes and 12 field tubes.. a more standard boiler has also been drawn out,, the 1/6th scale does work to my advantage as the parts are not that small :cheers:
Cool! Well, boiler will be hot... :shrug:
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these might be close to the final boiler drawings, there is a pile about 3 times bigger of earlier drawings..
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back into the hull, milled the boiler keelsons, cut and milled the angle brackets that hold the keelsons in place,, they did need a bit of percussive tuning to get the correct fit,, made a plex sheet to hold and position the keelsons,, told slim he had hit the glass floor and couldn't go any lower!!! all is just temped in place until it's time for final installation.. the scale lag bolts need pre-drilled holes in the oak frames..
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Great parts, continuing the excellent level of detail. :popcorn: :popcorn:
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: I think Slim may have dis-articulated himself somehow, torquing up those nuts in the last photo.... :Lol:
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some days if he's not careful he goes to pieces :lolb:
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: I think Slim may have dis-articulated himself somehow, torquing up those nuts in the last photo.... :Lol:
He overtorqued his nuts? Ouch! :lolb:
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Occupational Hazard.... :zap: :Lol:
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most of the deep hull work is done so the fittings were removed, all was given a good sanding and cleaning, taped of what couldn't be removed and gave it a coat of paint.. looks much better not being glossy epoxy!!! used a boiling water pot and a double-ended aluminum foil tent to steam the center of a long oak blank,, it bent very nicely around a form of the fantail, once milled/routed it will be the stern waterway edge...
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Awesome! Tht paint color is great. Slim is admiring his new swimming pool...
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colors for this boat aren't to complicated white, varnish and the 1900 book spec'ed a lead color for all planks, beams, frames and timbers of all interior and machinery spaces.. :cheers: did order up some more brass for the boiler base..
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I can't say that I comment much - but I DO admire your work + result :praise2:
So thank you very much for sharing this wonderful Journey with the rest of Us :Love: :cheers:
Per :popcorn:
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That is looking very nice!
Dave
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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with the help of another hot hot water soak and lots of clamps the waterway billet for the stern is held in place,, the square stock still needs to be profiled down to the final shape,, decided this job may be a bit to much for the dremel router so a 1/4 shank with bearings cove router bit set has been ordered, now I have to dig out my med router table..slim is making sure the clamps stay in place!!!
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Impressive work! Best compliment is that its hard to tell its a model without looking at the size of things around it.
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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finely decided that the hull outside would be glassed.. tinted both the wet-out and fill coat to start getting the base white color.. the hull can sit and cure over the weekend,, put slim in charge of watching it cure, he didn't get the job to early to make sure he didn't become to attached to the work :facepalm:
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That would bring a whole new meaning to sticky buns! :ROFL: :lolb:
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put slim in charge of watching it cure, he didn't get the job to early to make sure he didn't become to attached to the work
Yeah, perpetually keel-hauling Slim is probably not a good idea. (Even if it is well deserved.)
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Looking great! ( no matter what baked goods puns may be in play) :Lol:
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routed the waterway edge this morning, glad I went with a bigger router for this job, the oak is tough stuff, something smaller would have been burning its way through.. used the hull as bending form for the deck frame rails..
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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framed up the main deck today, lots of hackmatack knees and corners, lots of small wood parts, each one custom fitted!!! after some sanding the waterway edge can get installed... :cheers:
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Looking incredible! The use of Hackmatack for the knees like the original is a great touch.
Slim better move to the side soon though, or he's gonna get a tiller through his noggin!
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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thanks, I have to thank JW Swan boatworks for the great wood he has supplied,, a package of long 1" X 2"s is being sent 5 foot lengths of cherry (cockpit coming) white oak (hull fender strip) white ash (to bent U shaped for the stern seating).. :cheers:
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thanks, I have to thank JW Swan boatworks for the great wood he has supplied,, a package of long 1" X 2"s is being sent 5 foot lengths of cherry (cockpit coming) white oak (hull fender strip) white ash (to bent U shaped for the stern seating).. :cheers:
Just looked them up - they have some great boats and wood!
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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looking for advice and opinions,, did some mocking up thinking ahead to fuel supply,, if I was to use cartridge fuel cans,, 2 8oz table top stove type could be fitted under the forward bench seats,, a single 8oz camp style will fit nicely under the bow deck.. third option would be a cartridge under the starboard seat only to offset the boiler feed pump that get mounted on the port side... (my full size steam advisors poke at me to do coal fired :mischief:) Slim's head is empty on this matter, actually it's always empty :cheers:
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Doesn't it matter if the tank is upright or on its side? The ones I've used that were horizontal still had the fitting on the top, so you aren't taking liquid out, just the gas off the top. My experience is only with the butane burners, using refillable tanks that I bought, might be different with other fuels?
Also, depending on your flow rate, the cans/tanks will get cold and reduce flow - some air flow around them helps keep them warm, though you dont want them TOO close to the boiler and get them hot! :zap: Some people put them in a water bath.
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think I have a fuel tank plan in place,, was more worried about space and access at this time,, decided to mount up the helm gear that has been waiting for a while,, the iron-wood steering drum will be turned by a servo so all will turn,, have to make 4 angle brackets that hold the mounting block to the timbers and then get started on the cable pullies.. :cheers:
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The wheel looks great! Slim needs a captains hat, he looks ready to head out across the bay!
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Love that wheel and steering drum. Slim's lookin for the Brasso, likely, to polish it so it gleams brighter than the sun...... don't be surprised if he asks for Navy blackwall shades after the polishing! :Lol:
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using tite-bondIII most likely would of held the block in place, but staying with the plans the angle brackets were added,, had to do a bit of modding to my #2 socket wrench to get in the small spaces,, thinking now a nut driver with a slot added would work nicely with it for places with full access.. inspector Slim, hard at work as usual.. :cheers:
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gave some parts a quick blast box clean-up and mounted them in place,, looks like I'm back in the metal side of things as my pile of premade brass is now on the hull!!! gave slim the weekend off.. :cheers:
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Really looking great,
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Really looking great
I can only agree totally :praise2:
Per :cheers:
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I was hoping to do a float test and establish some weights for future reference, but so far all the the "test tanks" I have used before are to small or to shallow!!!! :facepalm:
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I was hoping to do a float test and establish some weights for future reference, but so far all the the "test tanks" I have used before are to small or to shallow!!!! :facepalm:
You know anyone with horses, with a watering trough? Or an old VW Bug, that you can roll down the windows on and stick in a hose? :LittleDevil:
For my RC submarines, I've used the bathtub, which was long enough, but sometimes I had to tape plastic bags over the overflow holes so I could fill it deep enough to get the sub to float (for ones like the shark with fins/tail that hung way down)
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Vast amounts of skill going on here. :praise2: :popcorn: :popcorn: Terry
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
An idea for finding a test tank - follow a pool truck to a location, wait til he or she is done, then take your tool bag / boat holder and clipboard and ring the doorbell. Say you are the "area supervisor" from the pool cleaning firm, and you need to check the job and calibrate things with your "density indicator pontoon" :Lol: :cheers:
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looking at whats on hand, think it will an OSB bottom 2 x 8 sides and ends.. a 6mil plastic sheet for a liner.. relitivity free :DrinkPint:
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I set up something like that once to soak planks for a boat (full size), 2x4 frame with heavy plastic. Just in case of leaks I set it up on the cocrete basement floor next to the sump pump. Worked out well, when time to drain it I just pushed the plastic sheet edge down from the frame and let it go into the pump basin.
A guy I worked with put up a big version in his backyard in the winter for a skating rink. One year a joint failed and all the water decided to imitate a tidal wave and attacked the neighbors house... :zap:
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yeah!!! :cartwheel: playing with brass today,, tried my older (ie. used and abused) holesaws and all I got was chatter,, tried an old circle cutter and worked better,, reground the cutter a few times and it worked very nice (lots of clamps and safety gear used)cut from each side, removed the disc and one pass to even the edge,, went over to the big metal bandsaw and knocked the corners off,, even the smaller 2 are just a hair to big for the lathe so the rotary table will get set up on the mill.. lots of turning that little handle...
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What's that that Slim is saying? It sounds like "Pieces if eight....Pieces of eight"
Mike
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I keep telling him that's it's not brass but gold and he can keep all the swarf he cleans up :lolb:
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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He looks confused as to why you are building scale models of manhole covers...
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lower boiler base ring cranked out, 2 more to go,, inspector Slim hard at work , I should have put him in charge of cranking the rotary table.. :facepalm:
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You'll be cooking (water) with gas soon! :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Slim's the lord of the (boiler) rings! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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second ring milled, spacer strips took a few trips through the rollers followed by some big rubber hammer percussive forming over big pipe section clamped in the big vise..still need trimming and some fine tuning before soldering, but you can get a better idea of what is going on.. I think Slim is giving me his I don't believe it's working face!! :cheers:
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He has the 'You finally built me a hot tub!' face on!
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He has the 'You finally built me a hot tub!' face on!
in that case I would have to change his name to Stew :insane:
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He might become a Soup ervisor... (sorry worst pun ever) :Lol: :facepalm:
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:lolb:
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milled the last and largest ring,, this one overhangs the others and supports the insulated boiler shell/cover.. looks like things will need some small alignment screws or pins before the soldering takes place, I found most of my Ti clips, gently beat them all flat so they can get formed for the job..piles of swarf to clean up (even with the swarf sucker running while milling) :cheers:
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lots of tweaking, gentle beating, a little filing and some swearing but the five main parts all fit together with very little clamp pressure.. things will get taken apart, cleaned and fluxed.. will have to make sure I have a new can of gas on the torch before the solder run.. having the 1900 plan book I shot a photo of one of the small parts so it could drawn out scale,, I need a bunch of these and other deck parts,, looking very hard at casting my own...
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:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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I noticed that Slim is not as handy as in earlier posts.
Cheers
Andrew
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I noticed that Slim is not as handy as in earlier posts.
Cheers
Andrew
Oh my! Did he get too close to the mill, or did the dog nibble on him?!
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somedays the "stress" is just to much for him and he goes to pieces.. it's laying about somewhere nearby..
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Maybe Slim's giving a hand to a neighbour? :Lol: :facepalm:
Boiler base ring assy looks great! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Slims hand is back in place, he was fired from store job because he couldn't keep his hand out of the till.. cleaned all the parts in prep for soldering, but decided that my soldering space wasn't up to this size or other large jobs coming up, a box of fire bricks has been ordered. A better soldering space is the works..
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Slims hand is back in place, he was fired from store job because he couldn't keep his hand out of the till
:lolb:
Is that ring assembly the firebox of the boiler, or is it the base support and air intake?
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it would support the main grate and the tube ring base of the boiler,, basically the ash pit
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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some small but time consuming parts,, boiler base "feet" set up rotary table and mill first part, form other parts and solder, back on the rotary with a spacer to mill the steps.. cut the feet from the milled stock, drill for mount pins and rivets, file, sand and blast to get the four feet.. a 1/4 steel donut that holes could be tapped in would have worked better as a mounting faceplate or fixture.. :wallbang: thing will sit a bit as a bunch of orders should arrive monday,, including a new set of Ti strips and the bricks to improve the soldering site!!
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Nice work on the feet!
Dave
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Lovely work on the base...it reminds me of the case and bezel of a marine chronometer or compass, or a port hole.
And clever use of the 4 jaw and bar stock on the rotary table for an easily adjustable large radius.
Regards
John
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plans are to have to coming and deck lift off as one unit.. the canopy base fittings (16 of them) cross the deck/coming junction, it was either lost wax or a built up soldered job, did a prototype of the soldered fitting to see if it could be done, some changes will done in the product run but it's very doable!!
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the basic parts have been sized, cut , milled and where needed beat with a hammer (they are not square, but angled down to meet the sloped deck) machined up an anvil with the correct angle of adjustment.. a little more cleaning and prep before soldering, new Ti clips waiting to be bent, planning on runs of four at a time,
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Mass production looks to be going well! :popcorn: :popcorn:
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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under the watchful eyes of Slim the assembly line was kicked into operation. a new pickle pot (the goodwill one proved to be porous).. clips bent for the job, three soldering runs of five units, the onto the mill for shaping and thinning, the still need some needle file work and reaming.. after that it's drilling for the six #0 by 1/4" screws that will hold them to the coming and deck..
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Wow! That's a nice looking pile-o-parts you've got there!
It's good that you got a new pickle pot. A porous pickle pot can be quite problematic! (Now say "problematic porous pickle pot" ten times really fast!)
Kim
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: The assemblies look great! Slim looks pleased with them. I'm perplexed about the problematic porous pickle pot problem though. :Lol: (FYI saying this fast was not considered - it's a family show) :shrug:
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it was a small cheap little crockpot that it got used at goodwill,, most likely it was a low fire ceramic pot, good enough for chicken soup but not for the pickle solution,, a couple of weeks after it was filled I noticed the level had dropped, lifting up the pot you could see where the solution was passing through the cheap ceramic,, looked like fuzzy wet stalagtites.. the new pot is from Rio Grande jewelry supply..
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The herd of brackets is looking great!
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thanks all, normally I have a hard time getting two parts to look the same so I'm feeling pretty good about them..must be all the methods, tricks and tips I've absorbed from this group :cheers:
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most boat hulls have curves in all directions at once,, made patterns for the coming to help get the steam bent planks fit the deck lines,, thickness planed some 100+ year old heart pine that will get turned into decking planks. it looks like it has passed quality control Slim..
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That old pine will look great as the decking!
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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with re-steaming and heating I still could not get a good fit for the waterway molding wrapping around the stern, made a much better form of the stern section, after some more steam bending attempts decided that doing a thin strip laminate might work, soaking the strips in hot hot water had them fitting the form nicely, after some drying time things were glued up (saran wrap so things don't get glued to the form) slim in charge of glue drying for the weekend!! thou can never ever haveth too many clamps.. Laminations 11:21
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Nice. The laminated plank is great, thats a tight curve for solid. :popcorn:
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the laminated waterway blank came out of the form and matched the stern curve nicely (no springback) cleaned it up, trimmed it for height and routed the shape,, made some blocks to help the clamping, dry clamped it place most of the day, the fit was very good when it was time to glue it in place.. will fit the rest of the waterway tomorrow (that will be much easier to fit and clamp.. Slim guarding the glue for the night..
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Looking great as always! Even the proper grain direction in the knees. Beauty!
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Looking great! Hope Slim doesn't bill extra for the 24/7 watch on the glue... :Lol:
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Looking great! Hope Slim doesn't bill extra for the 24/7 watch on the glue... :Lol:
Is it still sticky? ... Yup! ... Still sticky? ... Nope! - hey wait, my hand is stuck! :Lol:
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Looking great! Hope Slim doesn't bill extra for the 24/7 watch on the glue... :Lol:
Is it still sticky? ... Yup! ... Still sticky? ... Nope! - hey wait, my hand is stuck! :Lol:
yes you about have to glue him in place to keep him on the job...
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the rest of the waterway molding went in place much faster,, :whoohoo: :cheers:
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Looking great, as does Captain Slim Sparrow!
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :cheers:
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still playing with wood, but steam is involved,, milled the stock for the fender strip.. it was soaked, steamed and clamped.. overnight in the clamps before final fitment and glue..
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Each new piece adds a lot to the appearance. Great stuff!
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once these strips get glued in place and sanded I can turn the hull over run a bead of epoxy on their bottom edge.. then the hull can get final sanding and painting.. :whoohoo:
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Did the Navy boats like that have any contrasting color stripe down the side or at the waterline, or were they one color overall? Antifouling below waterline?
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if they were boats off a ship most often all white and cleaned by deckies after use, yard or base boats would of had bottom paint.. mine will be a ships boat! plans are to build a shipboard type cradle for storage,,(maybe with the option to add wheels for transport :thinking:) not all boats had the lower hull fender strip, not on the 1900 plans..
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In the pictures the sheer is darker, is that varnished wood or a painted color?
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vernished wood, I get to do lots of varnished wood on this boat.. :cartwheel: ships boat in this time frame were very well cared for,, most ships even carried a racing hull, A lot of pride was involved in which ship had the fastest rowing team!!!
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I think the ship's rowing team ate pretty well!!!!
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clamps off, trimming and fitting, glue and all the clamps back on.. clamps off.. thinking I will make a little shaped scraper to get the fender strip to the final profile.. told Slim he gets the weekend off!! :cheers:
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Super!
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Looks amazing :praise2:
Except a missing Rudder and a plug in the Prop-Shaft hole - it could sail now (towed).
Per
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if things look good monday the bottom edge of the fender strip where it meets the hull will get some epoxy, the hull can be sanded and painted with final top coat.. working on biulding a lined test tank so a float test can be done..
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getting the fender to a little better final shape... cabinet scraper with dremel mods.. working well so far.. (working with metal, at least for a few minutes)
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Hope Slim doesn't sneeze... nice scraper mod. :cheers:
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made lots of wood swarf and profiled the rail to shape, made a shaped hardwood sanding block to complete the job, I'm going to be so happy not to deal with white oak for a while :cheers:
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Looking great, though Slim has worked his fingers to the bone again!
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filled the hull over, using a syringe with a large needle filled the hull to fender seam where needed with tinted epoxy..
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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looking at what to use for steering cable.. would like to keep with a metal cable but worried about the tight radius of the steering drum.. any ideas? suggestions.. a direct scale size would be 1/16" inch..
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There used to be aircraft braided stainless cables / wire ropes down to about .032 " diameter, just FYI. Aircraft Spruce was one vendor The .032 dia cable would wrap on a .75" to 1" drum diameter as I recall. McMaster Carr carry some .047" cable and recommend 1" min drum diameter for it. They also have .062" cable / wire rope and recommend 1 to 2" dia drum min. Maybe stainless steel fishing leaders would be smaller / could use a smaller drum. If the drum needs to be real small, maybe plastic high test fishing line might work. Just food for thought. :cheers:
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I second the braided stainless cable, lots of sizes available, quite flexible in smaller diameter. I have started using it to replace universals and dogbones on some of my rc models. Small sizes and lengths available from fishing tackle stores, larger stuff from ebay or amazon, they sell it for railings and hangers.
To cut, I put it on a metal block and use a cold chisel, one sharp hammer strike and it cuts clean without unravelling like it would with a saw.
If its under tension both ends, you can use thinner braided cable than if you are doing push and pull from one end.
What diameter would look right? I can check what I have for bending radius.
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the cable scales out to 1/16" inch the steering drum is around 1" daimeter
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I've got some 3/16 braided that easily bends around a 1.5" diameter, and some .035 that you can wrap around a finger with no effort. A 1/16 version would go pretty tight, less than 1" diameter bends very easily. If there is a sporting goods store near you go look at their steel leader lines, they have braided ones.
Another option: they make brass cable for clocks. I've used it in a wall clock to hold the drive weight. Here is their 1/16 brass cable:
https://timesavers.com/i-8946371-1-16-brass-cable-x-11-foot-roll.html
They have lots of other sizes and also in steel.
https://timesavers.com/c-325852-clock-repair-replacement-parts-cable-cord-rope-for-weights-cable-guards-gut-related.html
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Stainless steel Fishing wire leader would be my choice for the win. Also available in "CAMO" which makes it look pre-rusted (more authentic than a bright silver cable). 170lb test is 0.033" diameter and 30' is just $8.
https://www.afwfishing.com/products/parent_Surfstrand_Bare_1x7_Stainless_Steel_Leader_Wire.asp?childskumatch= (https://www.afwfishing.com/products/parent_Surfstrand_Bare_1x7_Stainless_Steel_Leader_Wire.asp?childskumatch=)
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Aha - just found where I had the spool of 1/16" braided cable, it was in the top of my toolbox, out in plain sight, right where I'd never see it. :shrug:
It wraps around my finger with little effort. Got a whole spool of the stuff, want some? It would mail in a padded envelope no problem.
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thats great to know, I will need about 12ft though..
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Its a 100 foot spool, plenty!
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sent you a PM
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I just found mine as well. I used to use it on the rigging for large, r/c sailboats.
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with the fender rail looking better spent most of the week sanding, filling and priming (repeat repeat repeat) sprayed the topcoat this morning before the weather changed,, cool and dry the paint sprayed nicely, the hull will sit for over three days before getting the brightwork cleaned up,, Slim in charge of keeping the curing paint from harm!!! :cheers:
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The hull is a thing of beauty!
:DrinkPint:
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Fantastic! great lines on the hull, and a beautiful finish. :cheers:
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yeah!!!! steering cable (wire rope) arrived today.. many many thanks to "crueby" :whoohoo: :cheers: :DrinkPint:
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yeah!!!! steering cable (wire rope) arrived today.. many many thanks to "crueby" :whoohoo: :cheers: :DrinkPint:
Great! Hope it works out, I had about 100 feet of each size, more than I'll ever need. :cheers:
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did a cable test on the ironwood steering drum,, 5 turns of cable on the drum, pulled it tight tight tight,, cable flexes back with no memory of being on the drum so it looks like we are good, had to set things in place and take look.. feeling pretty good so far.. :whoohoo:
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Glad to hear the cable / wire rope from Chris worked out well. Slim might be lookin to sling a hammock off the cable runs and have a nap! :Lol:
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started in on the brass blocks that hold the steering sheaves, the aft set are the most complex so started with them, formed brass sheet around a machined steel plate to get the U-bend, careful placement of Ti clamps for soldering,, cut and shape, they still get a little section added to the open end, mounting hole and hole for the axel pin.. Slim now has a cohort (ghost) that looks at things as judgmental as Slim!!!!
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Great job on the sheaves. And a good thing Ghost is not a dog, or slim would wake up missing a bone here and there... :Lol:
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Slim is still mostly complete,, made the forward set of sheave holders, another Ti clip adventure, this time 4 virgin strips were stacked to act as a spacer setting the distance, time to get on the lathe and turn the sheaves.. :cheers: (I will take working with brass any day over White Oak)
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turned out the sheaves, trimmed and drilled some brass rivets for pins, the little brass sections soldered in on the open end of the blocks, mounting holes all drilled. a little tweaking and all went together nice. :whoohoo: still have a pair of small rollers to make that adjust the cable path for the hull shape.. :cheers:
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Sheaves look great!
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Sheaves look great!
Agree - and so do the rest of the build :praise2:
Per :cheers: :popcorn:
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the pair of cable roller, that just change the angle a small amount, getting back down in the jewelry range of work..Ghost not in the photo because he would have batted the small parts to places unknown!! :cheers: getting close to rigging the steering..
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Slim looks like he might be thinkin about rigging a temporary signal staff, small sheaves, and halyard - with message to Port Captain - "send Brasso" :Lol: :cheers:
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mountings for the aft pullies, milled some oak to match the mounting region shape, scraped and shaped aft timbers, cut and shaped oak to fit,, drilled pilot holes for the mounting screws,, epoxied and pinned in place,, checking pullies for alignment..Slim watching the epoxy cure..
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Terrific work - love how you are staying faithful to the original parts! :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Trying to stay as close to the plans as I can, besides the boat plan book, basic boiler drawings and the engine drawing I have 1895 and 1905 arrangement of machinery drawings, they show all the steam piping very well (the 1905 very complex with 2 boiler feed pumps) one thing not shown is the cable to tiller connection,, thinking a soldered on cable eye-tension spring unit- shackle to tiller.. (best guess) one of those function vs scale things
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ground and honed down a screw drill for the #1 screw size, also cleaned up a small screwdriver for the correct fit in the slot (little dips in some contact cement to help hold the screws) all screwed in place. :whoohoo: thinking I may rig the steering with some string/cord to get the placement of the other parts correct before stringing up the cable.... :cheers:
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Wow, some fun grinding to get that little drill made, but worth it to get the wood screw holes tapered and countersunk correctly. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
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I countersunk the brass with some small countersink bits in the mill, hand holding the piece against the bit to keep control and not over do it.. but the reground bit will work for the wood to wood connections..
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hard to photograph, but the test string is in on one side, things look good so should be able to start on rigging the cable :cartwheel:
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Looks like Slim has laser beam eyeballs!
Will there be a spring tensioner in the cable? As the tiller swings, the distances change slightly, or maybe the changes on either side cancel out? :noidea:
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was planning on a pair of tension springs as soon as I make them up!!!
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: I had no idea Slim knew high end physics - string theory in particular! :Lol:
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on the "I'm making this up as I go along" topic, securing the cable to the steering drum, the plans show fixtures that may use a wedge but to small to be sure.. so looking at methods to get this done,, sketching around I have a few thoughts but an open to any other ideas :thinking: :cheers: Slim just gives me blank looks and the cat just ignores me :facepalm: the drum is true Lignum Vitae as the plans and lives up to the name Ironwood,
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Could the eyes shown in the dwg have a stud out the bottom, and a fastening nut, like your sketch B? If they did have a stud, they might have cast in a keylike rib under the base of the eye to prevent it rotating while tightening the fastening nut. The rib might fit a carved groove in the drum. If the system did use eyes, the cable may have been passed through the eye and a nipper (like a collar with a threaded hole and screw) placed on the cable either side to anchor it to the eye. Neat to think about! :cheers:
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Ones I've seen were a low rounded block with a hole and two tabs for screws. Sorta like a cleat with the horns trimmed off, just the center section with the hole through from side to side. The j bolt you drew would do fine. If its in the center of the drum then it can wind outwards both sides.
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with a little more head scratching time came up more options that look a little better.. one with a shaped wedge(the navy likes things that sailors could fix with a hammer) and one with set screw,, either would be steel,, the drum has one on each end , the two cables feed in near the drum center, I have offset the forward pullies about 1/8" from drum center each way..
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Nice! The wedge would look great. You'll have to make Slim a little mallet.
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decided to give the wedge design a try.. little small work,, they will get fitted with JB weld (seems fitting for brass to ironwood) :cheers: (Slim says it's monday after a long weekend so he's resting his bones)
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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You need to snip some bristles off a paintbrush and make some whiskers for Slim's kitty!
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Ghost is a shop model for the cats that are planned when the boat gets finished and assigned its crew and mission.. scale wise I figure he is about a 8-9lb cat.. crew figures and other details can be home evening and weekend work..
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Nice! The wedge would look great. You'll have to make Slim a little mallet.
it will be in the "boat chest" along with many other things... :cheers:
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I'm looking forward to seeing how you make the padlock... :popcorn:
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From the looks of the list of what goes into the boat chest, I'm guessing that they were "A place for everything, and everything in its' place" type of chest. Rather than having the organization of your average "junk" drawer.
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better boat chest plan and list circa 1900,, and water breaker plans
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If you want to get ambitous, there is this classic old master tool chest:
(https://d4c5gb8slvq7w.cloudfront.net/eyJlZGl0cyI6eyJyZXNpemUiOnsid2lkdGgiOjYwMCwiaGVpZ2h0Ijo1NDB9fSwiYnVja2V0IjoiZmluZXdvb2R3b3JraW5nLnMzLnRhdW50b25jbG91ZC5jb20iLCJrZXkiOiJhcHBcL3VwbG9hZHNcLzIwMTZcLzA5XC8wNTE1MjQwOVwvOTk5MjcwMzgtbWFpbi5qcGcifQ==)
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If you want to get ambitous, there is this classic old master tool chest:
Ohh wau - as if the current build isn't enough ::)
Per :cheers: :popcorn:
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imagine that set at 1/3 size for the modeler!!!,, had to do a little re-work on the forward pullies mounting, but have them now fitting better.. looks like about 270 degrees lock to lock for the steering so I can start thinking about servos and drive train..
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Steering rig's looking great!
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the navy plan has the aft end of the steering shaft supported by the bulkhead, since it will be a bit before bulkheads get built decided to add a shaft support bracket.. missed on the sizing a tad and had to relieve the beam to get a good fit, no slop in the rig, give the wheel a bump and all just keeps spinning freely :whoohoo: :cheers:
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Sweet! That looks great, the wheel itself is amazing. Slim looks very happy with it (well, his usual wide eyed stare, anyway)
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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thanks all, looking at things this morning has me thinking a relocation of the stern pullies might be a good idea, moving them just a small amount forward will nearly double the distance between them and the tiller.. much better to fit the linkages.. shackle, compression spring, shackle, cable end.
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the two steps forward one step backwards is complete for now, dremeled out the aft pully mounts,, shaped frames and timbers for the new mounts,, milled up the mounts and fitted them, pullies installed in the new locations, getting decent rudder throw with space for linkage gear..
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waiting on springs and music wire to finish the steering rigging.. played with the Byrnes table-saw to see what it will do, started making the stock for the boat chest,, fast, precise and easy with this great little saw, had no problems making some very small tongue and groove stock!! :cheers:
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still waiting on materials... did a little side project for another steam launch modeler.... :cheers:
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You're really getting good at tiny ships wheels!
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Wow! That is very nice! :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :ThumbsUp:
I may not be commenting a lot, but I am certainly following along and enjoying your build.
Kim
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thanks all.. worked on the boat chest, cutting dovetails with a jeweler's saw, still have to add the feet, and then make the brass hardware (hinges.handles and hasp) materials package arrived so the steering can get worked on also.. :cheers:
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Dang, nice dovetail work!! Now Slim has his own furniture! :popcorn: :popcorn: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
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now slim has his own tools :facepalm: got an idea last night, ground down a saws-all blade after a bit of annealing. some maple burl and a jeweler's saw, it will get some brass rod as pins.. :cheers:
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Awesome. Slim looks pleased. The cat looks verry nervous! A few more hand tools, then Slim needs his own Sherline lathe...
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really don't know if I should make the required axe :Doh:
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still waiting on materials... did a little side project for another steam launch modeler.... :cheers:
Delightful!
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still have to make the cable locking wedges but the cable steering is about rigged,
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Excellent! That should keep Slim and Kitty off the reef! :popcorn: :popcorn:
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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after a major correction :facepalm: the steering is rigged and working.. no lube added at this time...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr7uxo-B_VE
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Ah, the old wrapping the drum the other way trick, eh? Looks great now! :ThumbsUp:
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I don't how I looked at it wrong for so long :Doh:... had to remove the front pullies and remount them with wedge plates to get the cable path correct.. :cheers:
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I don't how I looked at it wrong for so long :Doh: ... had to remove the front pullies and remount them with wedge plates to get the cable path correct.. :cheers:
Blame it on Slim. He put his hands on the wrong arms last week... :Lol:
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: These things happen. Glad you got it back on course. If anyone comments I'd just tell em you had to re-train the visiting E.R.A. 3 rigger about port and starboard. ("no, the OTHER port!") :Lol:
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It is common on sailboats in the 20 to 40 foot range to have cable steering from the wheel down through a pedestal and then through a couple of pulleys to the rudder tiller.
For correct steering it is usually necessary for the cables to cross as they lead down the pedestal. Of course amateur mechanics sometimes get this wrong and just run the cables without crossing. :hammerbash:
It turns out to be quite difficult to steer with reversed controls. Even when the operator knows what is happening and the boat is going slowly the natural steering reflexes just take over.
The "solution" is to steer with hands on the bottom of the wheel. Clumsy, but the reflexes work.
Gene
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I recall a case where the aircraft maintenance workers got the cables crossed on the way to the tail - did not turn out well at all. :zap:
For running the boat at the pond, will the wheel be driven by a servo winch somehow? Or have Slim at the wheel with the servo hooked to his head? (go that-a-way!) :Lol:
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the wheel shaft was made to extend beyond the drum giving room so a gearbox servo unit could be used,, the wheel will turn when the boat is in operation..
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Very cool! :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
Kim
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got tired of looking at the box of parts and got brave to do a big solder run, all went well, the new fire bricks helped greatly.. :cheers:
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Looks great, but Slim seems disappointed that it doesn't have a bottom, so he can't have a bath just yet... :cheers:
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Nice soldering job! It looks great :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
But I'm hoping Slim wasn't sitting there when you did the soldering itself! Probably got a bit hot, even for him!
Kim
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Excellent progress :praise2: :wine1:
It looks like you were planning a Schrödinger's cat experiment with the ships chest :)
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the boiler base "feet" were soldered and riveted in place,, some brass screws were modified as pins,, boiler support rails were lag bolted to the frames and timbers, a little filing to get all to fit, may need a little shorter springs. will be able to remove boiler by pulling the pins,, (spare pins, washers and springs will go in the boat chest) Slim and Ghost seem to approve!! :cheers:
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Beauty!
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thankyou very much,, I'm kind of thinking of sending some work in progress photos to Live Steam as they were asking. (it's starting to look like more than just parts now!)
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thankyou very much,, I'm kind of thinking of sending some work in progress photos to Live Steam as they were asking. (it's starting to look like more than just parts now!)
Definitely do! They have been begging for pictures for reader projects lately, their stock of pics for that column is empty apparently. They also could use articles on this (or other!) projects, any engines/vehicles, not just locomotives, or even short photo essays/project summaries to full build articles. They give copies of the issue your picture is in plus a 3-month subscription as an incentive, and for articles they pay by the page and photo - great way to pay for your materials (I've done a bunch - the editor David is a great guy to work with). Disclaimer - I am not an employee of theirs, have no stock in them, just a fan and regular contributor, the article payments from them have been paying for my brass and steel for quite a while. They are always looking for more articles and photos.
Chris
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work keeping me busy,, working on laying out the servo gearbox for the steering.. did get the work table cleaned up a bit and can see the floor again :cheers:
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: That is one 'clean' hull! Really like it, great workmanship. :cheers:
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I thought that Slim would have cleaned up a bit for you, must just slip through his fingers.
That is a really great looking hull though.
Cheers
Andrew
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Been following along quietly but really enjoying this build. A beautiful hull! :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
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thanks all,, a stock servo gearbox would not fit so started building one, a five turn servo + 12 tooth spur gear + 60 tooth main gear and I should get 360 at the shaft.. drilling and tapping time then trim the parts to shape.. small first idea on the bench also :facepalm: should be the last of the hull mechs for a while and I can get back to the duplex pump and lots of wood work.. :cheers:
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looks like it will pass Slim's inspection standards, waiting on gear to hub screws, Servocity just emailed that the metal big gear I wanted is back in stock (gear ordered) :cartwheel: :cheers:
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Slick setup! Servocity has some great parts, but they are usually pretty bulky since they are aimed at robots rather than scale models. I've gotten a bunch of their gearmotors for the RC models.
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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had to dremel just a bit to get clearance for the 60 tooth gear!! :cheers:
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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new gear arrived, set up the box, just clamped in place, but it's working as it should, the wheel speed is just about right..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEqshn3Jn-A
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Great!
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It's good to see slim back on the job, the steering works great, just not a quiet as I would have thought.
Cheers
Andrew
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thanks, nothing in the system is lubed at this time (gears, cables, sheaves, guides, pivot points and rudder shaft), that will be one of the last things done, I don't want to get grease or oil on anything that needs to be painted, glued or varnished. also all will under or behind wood decks and bulkheads,, thinking the hull is acting like a band shell at the time.. :cheers:
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Nice!
Great progress.
Dave
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Nice and very smooth rudder + wheel action :ThumbsUp:
Per :cheers:
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Appears to be an excellent choice in the speed ratio from the rudder Servo....... :ThumbsUp:
Nothing worse :facepalm: than seeing a rudder slap/slap at the actual rotational speed or the servo
Derek
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: The steering system works great! Slim looks pleased. :cheers:
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Nice action......can't wait to see it in the water. :popcorn: Terry
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thanks all!!!! getting the lead out this morning, glue-up of boards to make a form to steam bend the deck coming.. Slim with his ass on lead watching the glue dry :cheers:
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rough cut,, long saber saw blade to do the inside, need a new disc on the sander to take the outside to final size, I've spent more time making jigs, forms and bucks for this boat than any other model!!!(both for the hull and engine works)
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Looking great - the forms are well worth it though, imagine trying to make those shapes without them.
Slim looks like he is practicing his 'Full Speed Ahead!' yell. Hmmm, you are making room in this for my Ohio engine, right? :lolb:
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form for forming the coming is about done,, one little table-saw divot to be filled and trim the top edge down for easier clamping.. back to bending white oak, starting to wonder it's a steam launch due to the power source or the amount of steam used in building :facepalm:
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Going to look great with that coaming. Slim is thinking, 'gee, I thought the scenery would change more from a boat'
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slim knows (I hope) that he is a shop and yard worker, he will be there for the 1st launch and testing, the skunk works side of the model building operation has been working on it's part of the build, 1/6th scale heads were purchased along with glass eyes, hand working a ball end mill the eyes were installed, sculpt epoxy to restore the milled away flesh (still needs a little final work) sculp epoxy again adding the period correct facial hair and head gear,, working on making a hollow fiberglass torso with the hopes of mounting servos and gears inside,, this will be the 2nd class engineman working the throttle (regulator) and way lever... plans are to have the boat on a special trip!!! (at one time it was going to be a late night returning liberty launch filled with sailors after having a night on the town) :cheers:
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Those figures are going to be amazing! If one is hollow enough, slim could climb inside and look out through the glass eyes... :paranoia:
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And say " eye eye skipper" ? :Lol: Just jokin, the figures' heads look great! :cheers:
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report from the skunk-works side,, have the torso halves in the molds, should be cured and removed Thursday so that servo fitment, gears and framework can be worked out positioned the coxswain body (BM 1st class) and hot glued the joints so they stay that way, some light-weight sculpt epoxy arrived to start filling and dressing him. knocked together a mock-up of the rear seating to help with figure work. for the LT's wife a barbie promenade in the park outfit will start things going, it will need lots of work, some parts replace with lace and things to make it all look and fit better, the 1/6th female figure is a little more endowed than barbie (happy LT.) I have now had to promise slim that the next large scale boat in the yard will be something along the lines of a baby bootlegger or a chris-craft cobra... :cheers:
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Looking great! Has Slim asked her out on a date yet (when the LT wasn't nearby)?
Those figures are really going to add to the model!
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the Lt really doesn't have it together yet and Slim clearly doesn't have much to offer!!! the coxswain may be a much better option for her in a few days :ROFL: :cheers:
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success at a hollow figure body, popped out of the molds nicely (molds look great) a little simple green clean-up and a trip on the belt sander to even the edges.
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What materials are you using for molds and parts? Patterns from where?
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pattern was the 1/6th scale torso, fill the holes and seams with modeling clay, plaster for the molds (fast and cheap for simple shapes..PVA and wax to prep them, epoxy resin and glass clothe. the only thing I didn't have one hand was the plaster!!! :cheers:
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I bet Slim is jealous, They have full bodies, Has Slim asked for a make over yet, bet he will
Great work as usual
Cheers
Andrew
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took a start at sculpting 1890's womens hair-style,, much of it will get covered by a period correct substancial hat!!!
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I was going to protest about Women on a Navy boat/ship back in those days .... but realized that the Officers wifes might be allowed onboard during special occasion ....
Yet another very handsome model that you have made for the 'enturage' :praise2:
Per :cheers: :popcorn:
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to let the secret out, at one time it was going to be a returning liberty launch with a load of sailors and marines after a night on the town,, opting for a special duty sorte,, distributing the new recruits to thier billets,, next to the Lt. and his wife will be a basket of ship cat kittens along with the watchful mom cat, up on the bow deck near the coxswain will be be the proud deckmaster shipcat father (in charge of course) decided to have some fun this long haul project,, photo below my 26 toed polycat, polydactyl cats were historic shipcats
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That cat rules! Well, tape-measures...
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dinosuars once ruled the earth, they must of had really long tape measures... :stickpoke:
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dinosuars once ruled the earth, they must of had really long tape measures... :stickpoke:
:lolb:
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made an attempt to give the lady her hat (she didn't like it one bit), will be making a second attempt :Doh:, used light-weight epoxy sculpt to fill the joints in the coxswains body (they had been set in position with hot glue) the light-weight stuff is interesting to work with, kind on messy but wet finger tips smooth things out well.. after curing it sands quick and easy :whoohoo:,, my coxswain is about ready get cracker-jacked out, back to using the standard epoxy sculpt..
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Which specific epoxy sculpt stuff(s) are you using? I do lots of carving and am always on the lookout for better glues/fillers. One thing I've not been able to find yet is a filler that will work okay with the woodburning tips, most melt and burn with any kind of heat.
:popcorn: :popcorn:
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the epoxy sculpts are from smooth-on, I have had good luck with thier stuff including silicon mold making stuff.. a filler to survice wood-burning might be a tough find.. :headscratch:
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the epoxy sculpts are from smooth-on, I have had good luck with thier stuff including silicon mold making stuff.. a filler to survice wood-burning might be a tough find.. :headscratch:
Great, I'll check their site, have used their 2 part silicone for molds too. :ThumbsUp:
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Just been watching the videos on their site - the Free Form Sculpt looks quite promising for the things I do, very interesting how it can be shaped with wet tools or their detail spray. With some of my carvings, things like wings or claws get added as seperate blocks, and blending the seam can be tough. Might work with this stuff to carve/burn both sides, then put the putty in and shape it in the seam, paint would blend the appearance more. Worth some experimenting, going to order their trial size. Thanks for the tip! Looks better than the epoxy dough/putty I've tried before.
:cheers: :cheers:
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started to uniform the coxswain, layering up for bell-bottoms, the bloused shirt at the cuffs and waist,, did a test with the sculpt epoxy, which can be like working with bubblegum at times, found it better to get it in place and let it start to cure before adding fine details.. used some jeweler's talc as you would use flour while kneading bread, was able to roll out thin sheets that weren't sticky.. this should help out greatly. also found some small lace ribbon to help dress the LT's correctly.
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: The cox'n looks like he had a wild night out on the grog and completely lost his head...
But at least Slim's new blue skirt is a beauty.... er wait..... :Lol: (just kiddin Slim!) :facepalm2:
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Fun to see your many skills.
Dave
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I'm a little concerned about Slim. Compared to everybody else in the pictures he looks a little mal-nourished. Is he getting enough to eat? We don't want him to develop a complex about his appearance. After all, who's gonna watch the paint dry if something like that should happen?
Don
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have to admit this is kind of fun learning experience, have to work at building up layers of details, one wrong placed thumb before things have cured can trash 30 minutes of work, this one is starting to look the part. he's got his head back on this time for good.. Slim is fine, he claims less wind resistance and nothing to get frozen!!!
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Looking amazing, nice natural pose (though if his captain is having a bad day, he'll get yelled at to Stand Up Straight!! ) :Lol:
Details are great! I may have to send you some shop elves for plastic surgery...
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he will be a 1st class boatswains mate,, in other words he's road a few waves and knows what works!!!
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found a uniform web forum that has close up photos of a 1897 enlisted uniform some great details to add and cleared up a few things like 11 buttons or 13.. and info on the not often photographed summer white version.. this may look great for the coxswian..
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old documents and photos of original stuff is great,, started adding details as per,, the level of uniform that the LT. will wear does allow for a sword to be carried,, good info on the navy sword so they may be some 1/6th scale "forged in fire" ahead..
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Neat to see blueprints for uniforms!
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most ships had several sailors that worked as tailors in off hours doing uniforms for crewmates, they made extra money and the crew had better fitting uniforms than the navy supplied, sailors that had been in a while often had a "bounder" uniform, this was a very tailored fit with extra embroidery and was used during liberty, small hand cranked sewing machines were the normal rig to get the job done
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back to you can never have to many clamps :ROFL: started bending the strips that will be the coming, two layers glued-up, after a good steaming hot water soak the strips bent nicely around the form they will get to stay there for a day before getting trimmed and glued (and clamped again) slim keeping a careful eye on things.. :cheers:
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Nice bending job, those are some tight curves! Is that wood Ash? White Oak?
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hopefully it's the last bit of white oak on the build :whoohoo: :whoohoo: it's all ash, cherry and pine from here on out :cartwheel:
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Slim did a great job setting all those clamps around the coaming!
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some days the magic works, the glued up coming came off the form nicely (and didn't get glued to the hull in the process) a little marking and a bunch of trimming and fitting.. :whoohoo: told slim he could have the night off.. :cheers:
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Came out great!! Really sets of the shape of the hull.
Slim looks like he spotted a Kraken, boy are his eyes wide! :Lol:
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The comely maiden also has some nicely faired lines...err, umm, ahem...
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Slim is probably a firm believer that having a woman on board a naval vessel is bad luck, unless of course she's the Captain's daughter. Just watch out if he starts singing "What do you do with a drunken sailor", at least stop him after the first verse.
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the one time plan of a late night returning liberty launch would have involved lots of "what do you do with a drunken sailor" I'm setting the time stamp of the Dewey naval parade 1899.. thinking that it may be the 30ftr of the USS Texas (BB1) fewer letters to paint on the hat-bands..
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a little more work on the LT's wife, she's getting dressed a bit more..played with making some patriotic roses to adorn her hat..
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Now thats detailing! She'll need a big hat pin, to keep it on when it gets windy out in the harbor.
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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my evening research found that the Texas most likely did not have a 30ftr, another ship there that day was the USS New York and she did carry a 30ftr plus it has some cool script identifier letters to paint on the hull!!
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Going to take a really fine brush to do that logo on the hull!
I just ran across a picture of Slim surfing the web...
(https://i.postimg.cc/C1S5VgHb/Slim.jpg)
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The guy in that archway may have been trying to use dial-up to connect his App-L device.... :Lol:
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giving slim access to the internet would be worse than giving it to one of my cats,, who knows what would delivered to the front porch!!! :cheers:
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giving slim access to the internet would be worse than giving it to one of my cats,, who knows what would delivered to the front porch!!! :cheers:
Quite possibly something closely related to the Terrafirminator from Gnomeo and Juliet.
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started bending the cherry for the coming cap rail.. this will end up being a five strip lamination.. some more figure work with some supplies arriving. black silk for the hat bands it scaled out a .25 perfectly. the lettering scales out at .083 tall, going to have to get the very small brushes out.. we need a guy with a magnifying glass emoji..
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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My shop elves want to hire you to make custom figures for our models - be warned, they pay in tiny bottles of beer, make sure they are not pre-emptied!
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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the figure work is a nice break from the wood and metal side of things, not much measuring, mainly just eyeballing things :cheers:
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Something about the LT's wife just gives me the impression that she should be carrying a parasol.
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Something about the LT's wife just gives me the impression that she should be carrying a parasol.
yes we have a winner :whoohoo: that has been in the plans, the Lt. will get his navy sword also, decided a third boat crew member will be added, a seaman line handler in the aft section (couldn't expect the LT to do it) also going to give dry transfer letters a try on the silk hat band, found some gold ones correctly sized with the correct font :cheers:
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days of form making, thin stock prep, soaking, steaming, bending, gluing and clamping looks like time well spent, gave a little cherry stain to it to see if the glue lines wood vanish.. very happy with the weeks work.. :pinkelephant: :cheers:
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Beautiful!! Great contrast in the wood colors.
Though Slim is wondering why you put such a narrow bartop in his pub...
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This build just keeps on getting better and better :praise2:
I too love the colour contrast + it looks a bit like "Ædeltræ" (Danish word that translates into Noble-Wood) = think Teak og other Tropical longlasting wood materials - usually seen on more expensive boats ...!
Per :cheers: :popcorn:
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Beautiful!! Great contrast in the wood colors.
Though Slim is wondering why you put such a narrow bartop in his pub...
This build just keeps on getting better and better :praise2:
I too love the colour contrast + it looks a bit like "Ædeltræ" (Danish word that translates into Noble-Wood) = think Teak og other Tropical longlasting wood materials - usually seen on more expensive boats ...!
Per :cheers: :popcorn:
the real contrast will start when the slating of alternating cherry and ash fills all the inside compartments..
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That looks really good!
I like the different colors of wood. Especially with your boat.
Michael
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thanka all.. cold, wet and lots rain today,, did get the LT looking a little better ... Had to order up some more glass eyes for the added seaman figure (it was either that or steal them from slim) :ShakeHead:
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merry Xmas to me.. work gives us a holiday present (gift card) Lee Valley got most of mine this year, added to the functional small plane collection (used one from last year this morning to trim the coming) the LED magnifier lamp was on sale.. better than I expected, top movement is a ball joint, center joint tightens with an allen screw (wrench included, stores in the base) mag glass is glass!!! and seems to view very nice,, LEDs put out a nice field of light.. :cheers:
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Nice presents! Those mini Lee Valley tools are great, I have most of them, use them a lot on the wood projects (for the metal-impaired, 'wood' is a surface-mined metal that comes from those big green and brown things 'outside') .
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this might be the last of the steam-bending for the model.. ash that will be the slates for the U-shaped bench seat in the stern section, it will sit in the clamps till next week.. taking figures home to work on over the holiday. told slim he doesn't have to watch the ash in the form over the next few days. :cheers:
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So with the figures leaving with you, did you leave anybody to keep Slim out of trouble, Ghost maybe?
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So with the figures leaving with you, did you leave anybody to keep Slim out of trouble, Ghost maybe?
The coxswain should have a cutlass to help keep him in line... Oops, you are taking the figures with you. Uh oh...
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last check on Slim he was reclining in the hull saying something about working on his lazy bones for the next few days,, he's well away for the machines so things should be fine.. The Lt. will get a navy sword.. Decided to work on a little 4th of July just before X-mas.. still needs some correctly colored plumes (nothing usable in my fly tying chest) :cheers:
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Ahhh...
The LT's lady is showing her patriotic colors.
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the "cracker-jacks" got thier hat-bands for X-mas.. 3/32nd dry transfer letters, correct size, color and font,, saved me from micro painting, did have to give the the silk ribbon a few coats of spray paint so the letters would transfer well.. (the detail maddness goes on) :cheers:
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Now, that is attention to detail :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Mike
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Looking great! a really nice touch of detail. :cheers:
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Really clever how you got the letter transfers on, both that small and onto cloth! :praise2:
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still playing with the brown stuff, but at least it's the really old brown stuff (100 years old+ heart pine) shaping and steaming the deck planking, will get it all in place before gluing.. research shows no tar was used on these boats, so the caulking between planks white lead putty.. added some resin colorant to tite bond III and got strong white glue seems. the coxswain figure got his first coat of primer to show all the spots that need work.. Slim has been given the title "Lord of the Clamps" seems to make him happy,,, :cheers:
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Other than that rough spot on his butt he looks pretty good. Maybe he tore he uniform on shore leave? Better get it fixed or the Chief's gonna tear him a new one.
You have waaayyy more talent at figure sculpting than I do, I figured out in 8th grade art class that I had none. I wanted to make a paper-mache Cheetah, didn't work out so well. It did however make a decent looking cartoon frog.
Don
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Looking amazing, and glad that Slim has a grip on things...
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not a rough spot, the navy bell bottoms had a shoe-lace drawstring waist adjusting thing in the back,, that's why they didn't use belts..(it looks better close up..) :cheers:
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another "wood" part, Slim is sitting on the mock-up bench that was made for figure work.. doing his best inspecting the front edge of the wrap-around stern bench,, I did get to use the dremel router table I built figuring it would be needed for stuff like this,, it did the rough work nicely.. :cheers:
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Slim - "now where did I put those harp strings?" :Lol:
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had to do one more steam bend for the bench seat.. made a jig to hold the frame to correct shape, tack welding with CA followed by syringe applied tite-bond,, still needs a bit more sanding and the brass fasteners as the original added.. I think Slim is happy with place to sit down.. :cheers:
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Wonderful seat! Slim: Oh, those aching bones, nice to sit...
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made a 1/4" square stock holder to chuck-up in the unimat, dremeled a scraper edge to make a marking tool.. one of the six bench support stanchions done, now to get five more to look the same..
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Clever stock holder! And a nice giant penny...
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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took me 8 tries to get the needed six (that look like each other enough) the depressing thing is they wait until they are almost complete before breaking.. :whoohoo: :cheers:
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Those came out great. Getting the proportions right on those kinds of profiles is a very tricky thing. :ThumbsUp:
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hopefully the last last steam-bent part.. the cross coaming arch cap.. still will need a bit of detail sanding. deck planking is moving along,, three planks per section per day,, each one is trimmed to fit and then given a slight taper, if all goes well the straight edges will meet at the centerline,, Slim, hard at work, inspecting.. :cheers:
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Really enjoying this, I admire your skills.
Dave
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Great to see slim working his fingers to the bone. Fantastic results!!
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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getting the seaman figure fairly well cracker-jacked,, test fit for the hat ribbon, the lady is about ready for a coat of primer and then colors .. :cheers:
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: They're lookin great! :cheers:
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deck planking completed.. rough sanded, fine sanded and scraped,, those little planes and the scale workbench helped a great deal.. I'll have to make a jig to hold the canopy brackets to drill the six screw holes in each.. I think Slim is trying to take credit for the work.. :cheers:
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: The planing turned out might fancy! :Lol: Don't worry about Slim takin credit if it's not due - The Lieutenant is aboard - he'll set him straight!
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went past another point of no return,, the coaming is glued to the deck.. started work on the planked floor sections, the one in the stern section gets an ash grating over the access hole (will have to make a jig for the little router table to make the parts) Slim "gets" to watch the glue dry over the weekend, :cheers:
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Wow, really adds to the look!
And for the steam boiler impaired, an "Ash grating" is a grating made of Ash wood to allow visibility and ventilation, not a steel grating for the coal/wood ash from a fire to fall through! :Lol:
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coffee is wearing thin this late in the afternoon,, :help: we need a more coffee emoji :ROFL:
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coffee is wearing thin this late in the afternoon,, :help: we need a more coffee emoji :ROFL:
Slim hitting you with a taser will do the same thing! :zap: (sorry for giving him the idea!) :Jester:
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well the coffee must be working, the deck gets 4 socket plates for oarlocks/rowlocks,, I can cast the locks and use them as thumbscrews to hold the deck down..they will scale out at just over an inch tall.. slow filling, priming and sanding on the figures
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Great to see them coming to life!
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spending some time making the needed tongue and groove stock,, 1/2 inch by 1/8th thick for the staving in ash and cherry..
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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How did you cut the tongues and grooves?
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made small feather boards for the table-saw to hold the boards against the fence..set the blade height,, did use a finer kerf blade for the groove, ran the boards both ways to get the grooves dead center, the tongues were easy with a wider blade and the fence set correctly.. (made sure I had test stock for the set up) this little saw just keeps making me smile... :cheers:
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... this little saw just keeps making me smile... :cheers:
Yeah, the Byrnes saw really is a nice little machine! And you're doing wonders with it! :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
Kim
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This just keeps getting better!!! I LOVE the detail you are getting .
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thanks all for following this long haul.. amazing how a few boards can change the look of things,, starting work on the staving, main bulkhead in place, rear seating completed with the cross slates and hole for a sailing mast added (the hole get a brass mounting ring and cover plate) one shot to show the deck will lift off to gain interior access.. :cheers:
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Looking nice! Was the two-tone wood on the originals like that? One of the rare places where Navy ships got fancy in that era!
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White Ash and Cherry as per the 1900 plans :pinkelephant:
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spent more time making stock.. this time for the aft curved section which has a bit of lay-back angle to it.. rigged a taper jig on the saw, stock still needs to be T&G'ed :cheers: slim has the weekend off, nothing to watch dry or cure..
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Are you going to angle the tongues and/or grooves to let them go round the curve, or just make them a looser fit?
:popcorn: :popcorn:
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test fitting with the T&G stock shows they will fit fairly good,, a little chamfer here and there will help.. a good spot to use the scale planes...
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doing some untrimmed dry fitting of the staves, looks like the tapered sections will get me around the sweep and back to vertical for the sides..
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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staves are fitting nicely, did have to get creative on a holding method, Slim back to watching glue dry.. :cheers:
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Will there be a way to seal/waterproof the back side of the staves?
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the staves are glued to the coaming, the entire seating area will lift off with main deck, the floor will be removable also to give good access to the propellor shaft and thrust box..
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the staves are glued to the coaming, the entire seating area will lift off with main deck, the floor will be removable also to give good access to the propellor shaft and thrust box..
Perfect!!
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some days the magic works :whoohoo: the rear seating area is all staved, and it fits :cartwheel: the bulkhead boards match the ones in the hull to give the illusion that it is one layer thick as in the plans, machinery things get mounted to the engine side.. now to start on the forward staving (which will stay in the hull) :cheers:
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Beatiful!
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I keep on getting more and more impressed - the more you post from this build :praise2:
Per :cheers: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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thanks all, still playing with the wood stuff.. more staving installed, will have to make a little more tongue and groove to finish... mocked up the combo seat/lockers (they will lift out with the floor section.)
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Wow, you just continue to turn out amazing work!
Dave
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after work and fixing my truck got in the way, the tongue and groove boards are all installed. :cartwheel:
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Is 'Bones' sat on the gun mounting ring?
The two wood colours look beautiful together
Mike
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the biggest thing they mounted was a 1pdr rfg up on the bow deck.. the ring is the boiler base.. at 1/6th scale the bore of the 1pdr scales very very close to .22inch..(big long hmmmmm)
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more of the madness, started working on the servos and gears that will fit in the motorman torso, will have to mill a block that will hold everything.. the very beefy gears will get alot of reduction..
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The .000006 Million dollar Man!
What will his arms be moving? Throttle/reverse? :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Maybe the figure will be animated with the servos to give Slim a chiropractor style back adjustment... :Lol:
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yes throttle and reverse, (way lever/shaft) figuring like the geared down steering I should end up with a nice speed and a good amount of torque.. I'm waiting on a ash billet for the seat,hatches and locker tops (needed fine grain quarterdsawn over 2 inches wide) should be back with the mill, lathe and soldering side of things this week, did order up a few things to work on the boiler burner also..
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Maybe the figure will be animated with the servos to give Slim a chiropractor style back adjustment... :Lol:
slim's alignment is fairly solid,(short of getting near a torch not much will bother him) we don't need to give him another reason for not working :Lol:
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meanwhile down in the lab, a delron block was milled to hold the servos and shafts, circlips hold the shafts in place, I'm hoping the servo travel to the shafts is about correct (can get a servo travel unit and increase if need be) nice speed and lots of power at the shafts, the body shell will need a bit of work to make a section removable for service.. I will have send Slim out to find a brain :cheers:
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Thats pretty cool! The newer transmitters have options for each channel to adjust total throw angle, speed, all that sort of thing. Being able to adjust the speed of his arm movements would make it a lot more realistic. I've got a model rowboat where the oars are controlled with a 'RowBot' unit made by someone in England. It takes throttle and direction input from the transmitter, and drives four serves, two per oar, speeding up/slowing down one side or the other to turn gently or quickly, will even run the oars in opposite directions for spinning in place. I set that boat up with a Capt Jack Sparrow figurine, with the arms being moved by the ends of the oars. He did get into the rum one time (at least) and fell out of the boat on a windy day at the submarine meet in Indianapolis (fortunately a shallow reflecting pool so easy to walk out and drag his drunk butt back to shore).
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: I think that sailor is geared perfectly to his duties! :Lol: The 1890s' answer to Steve Austin!
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You better be careful about sending Slim out to find a brain. Like Igor in young Frankenstein, he might just come back with Abby Normal's brain.
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the guy who decided to build a five foot navy steam boat already has abby normal's brain in use :ROFL:
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the guy who decided to build a five foot navy steam boat already has abby normal's brain in use :ROFL:
Yeah, just a little larger and YOU could ride in it!
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spent most of the little shop time I had this week getting a better fit where the deck drops in,, after using some parchment paper and chalk found the areas that needed work and the fit is fairly tight all around the edges.. will be able to use the yet to be made forward deck mast fitting as a hold down (should be some fun brass work) a little more work on the engineman torso and gear box fit.. the billet for the hatches, locker tops and seats arrived, looks great I could use any of the 4 sides,, Slim confirmed this saying "that is a fine piece of ash" :facepalm: :cheers:
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:lolb:
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Slim confirmed this saying "that is a fine piece of ash" :facepalm: :cheers:
I don't know if it's Slim, or the rest of us, but somebody here has a dirty mind. Oh well, the view is nice from the gutter.
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Slim confirmed this saying "that is a fine piece of ash"
He must be talking about a new piece of wood, surely not the LT's lady
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Don't forget though, Slim was the one who said "keep the ash whole" when you were getting out the little circular saw thinking of cutting strips ... :Lol:
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sawed and thickness sanded the "fine piece of ash" into the needed 1/8" thick boards and started mocking things up.. actually played with a little brass, some turning, jeweler's sawing, filing and silver soldering, this is the forward mast deck fitting,, the small stub will be threaded so the part will work as a deck hold-down..
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Had to make a marker disc so the screw hole position could be marked on the frame plate. thinking that a simple hardwood tool with two dowel pins will work as a wrench, now to figure out the deck hold-down for the stern..
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Hey Thgs!
I just saw your launch and engine on the Reader's Photo Page in Live Steam & Outdoor Railroading (March/April issue)! Congratulations!
It looks great, as always.
I received the magazine last night and was just thumbing through it and said "Hey! I recognize this!" It was your model. Slim even made a cameo in the shot!
Well done, and congrats! :ThumbsUp: ;D :cartwheel:
Kim
PS Oh yeah, those hold-downs look great too! You're really doing a bang-up job on this! :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
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thanks, when they were looking for photos a couple of folks suggested I submit some, well I get a couple issues free and two extra copies of this issue.. not telling why Slim is there might lead to some interesting comments.. :facepalm:
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turned, drilled, cut and filed the aft mast ring and cap. much faster as this one is just for show,, the pieces will get loc-tited together, hole will be made to fit when I bring in my drill bit extension..
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looking great!
Slim needs a little loupe for his inspections...
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: But do we want Slim any more loupe-y? :Lol:
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after a little head scratching :headscratch: made a guide with a piece of plywood to hold a fostner bit in the correct spot to get the seat cut to fit the mast ring..
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Nice! If I didn't know better I'd think this was a full size boat!
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more brass carving today, mainly on the mill, making good use of the small ball end mill set I bought a while back, lots of filing, sanding and shaping ahead but the 4 larger cleats are roughed out..
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Make some extra cleats. You can use them to tie down Slim and keep him out of trouble. :lolb:
Mike
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Slim looks like he is getting comfortable at the mill! Nice cleats!
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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The cleats look great! Slim is getting good with the mill! :Lol: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
Kim
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thanks all, a little time on the belt sander/grinder, some file work and some buffing.. one close to done, I think it may have passed Slim's inspection..
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That came out great! Looks just like the old Herreschoff catalog pictures! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
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another fitting roughed out.. didn't want to reset by mill vise, set up this instead.. the ball end mill got me close on some of the curves,, a little time with a chain-saw file removed some more brass,, a little force to give it the arc to match the waterway... now to make its mirror image... :cheers:
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Your brass work is fantastic! :popcorn: :popcorn:
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made the other stern chock, while the mill was still set up did the bow chocks,, I think I'm all chocked up now..
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Nice!
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Outstanding! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
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came up with a method to make the big shackles, this one is for the bow fitting,, next one I will just flat mill a slot for fitting the arc section in, the fancy rounded method just made it a bugger to align things for soldering.. leaving the center "tube" kept things straight,, still needs a bit more finishing...
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Is Slim thinking about opening his own bijoux chandlers shop? Better tell him there will only be slim picking. @#&%
Mike
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For small ones I've made them out flat in a bar, drilled the end holes and turned the center section, then heated and bent them to shape. This is a bit larger, would take heat to do the bending, which would make the process tougher to control with fingertips. Nice result!
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Man, that's some spiffy looking fittings you're making there! Really nice!
Kim
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not much shop time the last few days, but did get the bolt and nut made for the bow shackle,, cleaned it up a bit more..
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Wow - that shackle came out perfect! Great propotions on it. :popcorn:
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decided the keel condenser needs to built before more work proceeds with the hull.. my 1905 engineering drawings show it made of copper.. had to order up some thinner walled copper tubes for this, during the wait decided to knock out a few small fun things,, played with the jewelers saw and cut out the New York hull insignia's, after a little more file work and fine sanding to soften the sharp edges they will get blackened..
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Nice work on the letters, thats some fancy script! Will they be pinned/rivetted on?
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plans say tiny wood screws, but that might end up as tiny pins..
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the smallest wood screws I have are 0 x 1/4 but thinking that the smaller heads on the 00 x 90 machine screws might work and look better.. or small brass rod to look like screws.. :thinking:
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Still following and Very much Enjoying this beautiful build and it just gets better and better :praise2:
Just thinking out loud .... Copper wire (thin diameter) used as Rivets on the Signs - you might even make it look like they have a slot for the screwdriver .... :thinking:
Per :cheers:
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first thru-hull fitting for the keel condenser about done, need to be cut for height and threaded for the mounting nut and pipe elbow.. lathe, milling and silver soldering to get the 4 parts together (a fair amount of belt grinding also.) felt really strange to grab a drill and put a hole in the hull (better be in the correct spot!!) will try to get its little brother the return fitting done next (not as big hole in the hull) :cheers:
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"say hello to my little friend" keel condenser return fitting made.. now I have two holes in perfectly good hull.. :cheers:
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Nice! Though it does remind me of the old comedies, if there is a hole letting water into the hull, drill another to let it back out... :Lol:
Interesting shapes, with the tapered end going back up to the hull. Streamlining, preventing snags?
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thinking the shape was more to prevent fouling and protection from striking things.. don't think they went fast enough to worry about streamlining...
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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my order of telescoping copper tube arrived, started work on the keel condenser.. some copper flex tube, little cero-bend and some gentle persuasion resulted in the a U-bend that looks good,, will have to make a jig to hold things in place while soldering. at least plumbing solder should be fine for this..
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Nice tubing. And I recognize that little vise, got one just like it from my old Unimat setup, handy for bench work.
:popcorn: :popcorn:
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: The condensor looks excellent! Is there enough telescoping tube left for Slim to make a trombone for the L.T. to entertain the missus? :Lol:
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got lots of extra small stuff,, but those bends might be pretty tight..
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Nice looking condenser, did they also use copper for the full size version?
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of my three plans the 1895 engineering plan is the only one that spec's material for it and it has copper. mine and my full size steam friend opinion is the copper would and could dent while brass might be more prone to cracking..
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On the Sabino I believe they used iron or steel pipe - Steamer Dave would know for sure. I agree about it needing to be strong, don't want hitting a floating log or something to crush it.
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I did make the holding fixture that got soldered to the aft of the U-bend on tuesday, no progress after that, Wed. morning I had planned ankle surgery, all went well but just laying about with my leg elevated is driving me crazy.. hopefuly I'll be gimping about in a day or so.. I did unplug all the machines so slim can't be building cannons or anything else destructive.. Yeti has been making sure I'm staying off my feet..
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Yeticat seems to be providing some much needed therapy. Hope you are an your feet again soon
Mike
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Hope things go great once you're hopping again. Best wishes for a speedy recovery! :cheers:
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Hope you are back on your feet again soon! Good chance to look through more plan books for future projects...
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Hope you heal quickly! It's nice to see you have such great support during your convalescence! That will help make the time go more quickly :)
Kim
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thanks all, things are going well, I had a cyst above my the ball of my ankle for years, in the last few months it decided to get bigger (think golfball) and caused problems with the nerves, tendons and everthing else packed in there, the cyst was removed, all my toes work, no numbness!!! I have most of my plans in pdfs so doing planning on the laptop the last few days, now that I don't need the oxy anymore.. the copper exguast pipe between the engine and condenser looks like a "fun" project lots of bends plus the fittings for vaccume guage and feed pump exgaust.. been looking at vidios for home copper plating to hide the solder joints.. I do actually have an excuse to lay about and watch the basketballs games..
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gimping around, but starting to get back to things, using cero-bend made the main parts of the exhaust header pipe, used a ball-end mill to form the joint end, (milled it with the cero-bend still in the pipe) still have to make the fittings so the vacuum gauge and feed pump exhaust can be hooked up.. it also gets a flanged top and plate with a fitting so the boiler could be blown down thru the condenser.. :cheers:
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oooh, neat trick with making the pipe connection!
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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soldered up the main connection in the header pipe, if this one wasn't correct, the rest would have been a waste of time, I think it has passed Slims inspection!!! now to add the other parts, clean it up and try my hand at home copper plating to hide the solder joints.. :cheers:
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Great looking pipe joint! Not surprised Slim didn't have a bone to pick with you about it. :Lol:
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learning the joys of turning copper!!! :wallbang: but got the parts done.. upper section of header pipe soldered up.. had to temporally mount the vacuum gauge I purchased a while back (also have its match in a pressure gauge) no complaints out of Slim (for now) :cheers:
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had to get a little inventive with clamping things in place on the mill, 2 more hard solder joints done, time for clean-up and plating..
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Thats some fancy piping! Boring that little hole in the bend must have been nervous. Slim appears to be impressed!
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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:ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :DrinkPint:
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Thats some fancy piping! Boring that little hole in the bend must have been nervous. Slim appears to be impressed!
practicing for when work on the boiler starts :noidea:
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I'll say! That was a fancy little maneuver - and in copper no less! :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Kim
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A tidy job of some tricky work! Well done, as always. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :cheers:
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Slim is perplexed, "isn't this pump going to be brass?"
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Tell him to learn to be an alchemist... :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Or ask him to shine it up and get it ready for brass plating! :zap: :Lol: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Nice looking pattern!
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I think things are solidifying in Slim's mind,, will have to wait a day or two until the topcoat cures, reamed the plastic pipe to get a nice 1/2" dia core..
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Was the original pump made by Marsh? Pattern looks great.
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Are you casting it yourself?
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Bailey made them for the navy, mine will be a simplified design inside, the Bailey's were a casting and coring masterpiece or nightmare, the "M" was a sizing mark..
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Are you casting it yourself?
giving it a try,, I picked up supplies a few months back planning on casting cleats and such.. still have more fittings that may get casted,, 1/4 inch pipe elbows are on the list..
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Are you casting it yourself?
giving it a try,, I picked up supplies a few months back planning on casting cleats and such.. still have more fittings that may get casted,, 1/4 inch pipe elbows are on the list..
Looking forward to seeing that!
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Thanks for the Bailey info , and the M sizing mark.
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going to hold off on the casting for a bit, watched a video where fine sand and epoxy (just enough to make the sand bind) to make small casting cores, if this works I may rethink parts for the navy/worthington duplex feed pump.. :thinking: :thinking: :cheers:
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the madness goes on, split the pattern and pinned it (much easier to get a good sand form like this), made a pattern for the core, now to make a mold from it..
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Will be watching along on the casting! :popcorn: :popcorn:
(Slim will get very upset if you use his ribcage to sift the sand, won't he? :Jester: )
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: