Model Engine Maker
General Category => Chatterbox => Topic started by: RayW on March 30, 2021, 03:23:04 PM
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I don't know if it's just me or if other forum members are finding the same thing, but response to my recent posts, both on my Alyn Foundry RLE and on my Mystery (Leek) engines has been almost non existent, with, perhaps, one comment if I am lucky, but more often no response at all. I don't know whether this means they are simply not being read, or are not of any interest, but it makes me seriously question whether there is any point in continuing to post if no-one is interested.
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I must admit I was thinking the same myself.
The time it takes to prepare photo's and upload them to a hosting site and then make a post on here, is all time that could be spent in the workshop if nobody is interested in them anyway.
Phil
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I can relate to that there seems to be their little click and anyone outside gets no response. Oh well as you said just more time to do other things. I have given up on doing a lot of posting here.
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I have noticed the same thing but I don't have an explanation for it. I does seem that updates are being read based on the views, but people just don't comment like they have in the past.
Dave
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Im sorry. My daughter has been sick for some time and my hobby time has been limited. My participation will get netter with time
Dave
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Firstly, I think your posts ( and, I hope, mine) are being read. However, unless we have a query or advice then most of us don't know what say in response, especially us Brits who tend to be less effusive in our praise. There are only so many times you can reply " still watching ". Perhaps this is a situation where a like button would be useful.
Secondly, though, I have to say that for my own part I often will not read those posts with the picture thumbnails attached to the bottom since there is no narrative flow.
Anyway Ray, I do read and look forward to your posts,
Stay well,
Rod
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Thanks for all your comments. Seems to me that viewing numbers are also much lower than in the past. My two latest threads have attracted around 4-4500 views, whereas my 1895 Otto thread a few years ago got 50,000+ hits.
Dave, please don't apologise. Family comes before everything and I wish your daughter all the best.
Rod, I take your point about not including photos in the text, but have to confess I only know how to add them as attachments.
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Thank you all for your posts! And please don't stop posting. I for one, read and enjoy each and every post someone makes on the forum.
Yes, I've noticed that posts have gone down overall on the forum, and I can't explain that. We have a steady stream of people signing up as new members, and overall, membership is growing, but most people don't seem to post, for whatever reason.
Personally, I read every post. I comment when I have a question or something to say, but since I've never built an IC engine, I have very little to comment on there. The same goes for Stirling cycle engines - never made one so no experience. I intend to rectify both of these situations someday, but I am where I am. I tend to comment more on steam engines since that's what I've done.
But that doesn't mean I don't appreciate all the posts. I do. And I learn a lot from reading others' posts even in areas that I have no experience with - I probably learn even more there! I just tend to have less to say.
I would encourage people not to give up posting. That certainly won't help the situation! People read the posts (you can see that in the number of views) and I'm sure they find it interesting and educational, otherwise, they'd stop reading. I know I do!
If you want to make your post more interesting to others, here are my suggestions:
1) Post your pictures inline with your text. It makes it easier for people to follow along with the narrative, as Rod has already said.
2) Post your failed attempts as well as your successes. That adds interest and is something EVERYONE can relate to.
3) Post more details of your build, not just the completion of things. Again, more interesting and more instructive.
4) Post Videos, but do keep them short - less than a minute in my opinion. I love videos, but long videos take a lot of time to watch, and many of us don't have the time to dedicate to that. This is a mainly picture & text based forum. But short videos are super helpful and great to see!
5) Comment on other people's posts. If you comment on other people's builds, they're more likely to comment on yours.
These aren't pointed at anyone, they are just my personal observations and things I try to do (though not always successfully :)).
One other thought on this just to be complete - keep all posts civil. Be very careful with teasing someone on the forum - it is TOO easy for online communication to be misunderstood. You don't see the facial expressions of the sender, you don't hear the tone of voice - none of that subtle non-verbal communication thing. And that can lead to misunderstandings. I fear we have had some of that happen lately on some threads and it has had a direct impact on our readership. I don't like seeing it and I doubt others do either. I know some members have stepped away from the forum because of it. This forum has been a very fun place to be - a very open and inviting place, and I want to see that continue. I'm sure we all do. But I believe it bears talking about in this type of discussion.
Sorry, the last paragraph was a bit of a downer, but it's real. The first set of points are much more positive and are also real, so consider this too. Not saying that any of you haven't been doing this. It's just some food for thought for the whole forum. I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on what makes for 'interesting posts'. These are just my observations.
My final statement; Thank you all for your posts! And please don't stop posting. I for one, read and enjoy each and every post someone makes on the forum.
Kim
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I tend to feel the same way about lack of response to posts. I don't expect to be one of the most popular posters here with my meagre attempts, but I have nevertheless been disappointed in response at times. I did wonder what the cause might be, thinking maybe there was a forum "clique", or whether this forum was suffering an unusual lack of activity or whatever. But actually I am more inclined to think it is simply that online forums are on the decline. I have a look at some other boards around this pass time, and also some other things I am interested in, and honestly there isn't that much activity anywhere. I am now inclined to believe that social media groups on facebook and similar are taking over. Which is a shame, because the interaction on forum boards like this is a lot more direct, personal and consequently more valuable. Also people like to subscribe to youtube and just sit back and watch, rather than making an effort to take part.
Don't know for sure. Just some thoughts on the subject. But similarly I'm not feeling like posting further (bungled) work on my build thread is worth the effort. Maybe a shot of the finished engine when I get there, but not sure it's worth starting a new build thread on my next engine or my boiler, which is a shame because I'm really excited to start those projects.
I thought about starting my own youtube channel. "100 ways not to make things" or something. Lot of effort involved editing video though.
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Like Kim said, I also read every post to the forum and mostly enjoy the time spent.
I comment on things that interest me, and sometimes if I can help, but usually the help requests are answered long before I get a chance to read the original post. I think that there is a lot to be said about the social media platforms taking way from the forums. I have seen the same thing happen with the antique engine community, these platforms are good a snap shot in time, but not necessarily for long term projects (IMO). Wayne Grenning has done a god job of documenting his engine work on Facebook, but that is his space, page, what ever you call it, and you have to follow it to see it.
I guess what I'm trying to say is while I look at stuff on Instagram and Facebook I still prefer the forum style for documenting the type of projects that we work on.
Dave
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Honesty time: I stopped posting back in January because:
1, One particular member reacted in what I thought was a bizarre way to what I intended to be a helpful post - this left me feeling that lockdown had impacted my mental health more than I had anticipated and I was not sure if what I was posting was coming across as intended. So I decided best to stop before I did something I regretted :toilet_claw:
2, There has been a "bad smell" that follows me round and criticises almost everything I post. I don't want that negativism discouraging others posting their builds so I stopped posting on other's threads as that negativism grinds me down and I don't want any one else being discouraged in the same manner on their threads. If you don't participate on other's threads then they don't post on yours :(
These two points have put me off doing any model making and I have not been in my workshop since the beginning of January. Instead I have been doing cross stitch and joined the cross stitch forum. Ok so it is in the main other ladies (one fella who also is also a model engineer :) ) but they have a different attitude to their forum posting they:
Always make positive comments about what others are doing and it is more than just " oh that's good" they respond as if they are really interested, engaging in the subject matter, asking questions. Every single responding post makes you feel you want to post more
They never criticise ANYTHING. Any suggestions for improvement are very positively put across :ThumbsUp:
They have a few non cross stitch areas like: the Virtual pub :wine1: (the Stash and Grab) which is a laugh and includes bringing along virtual cooking :headscratch: , our word game - which tells you a lot about the others and the way they think.
Hopefully the threat of Covid will be behind us soon and we will be able to get out to discover a new normal :noidea:
Jo
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I’ve been on this forum for quite a few years now and I’ve noticed there is a certain pattern to the ebb and flow of comments here. Give it some time. Fall and winter seems to be our peak periods for both builds and comments. Right now you’re competing with spring and the beginning of outdoor activities. The other thing I’ve noticed is that when we have a large amount of “advanced” builds like we do now there are less comments. In some ways I think the skill level on display right now can be quite intimidating to some and that impacts the number of comments.
Tony
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I think y'all said it all. I've stopped bothering to post too. Little response, but lots of browsing the pictures. I'm on my 3rd engine since the COVID fiasco started, scale model casting kits...that also seems to be the kiss of death.
maury
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Phil and Ray, 100% agree...and I guess as one who hasn't responded to those threads I suppose I'm part of the problem. I'd done lots of long photo posts on other forums and its disheartening after all that effort and its radio silence.
Here's the problem as I see it, at least as it affects my behaviour. Way too many sub forums. we're all busy and I only look a few areas when I sign in. so 90% of posts go unnoticed by me.
26 forums suggests an need to want to organize. However, I challenge the leadership to ask why? The goal (imo) of social media should fun and free flowing conversations, show and tell etc....not methodical grouping and organizing. Things are found nowadays by searching not index cards.
I'd cut it down to 5 forums so each would be much more active/dynamic. It would be a manageable number to click through so more of us would see more of the site. I've said it before I know others oppose my view, but I'll keep chipping away :)
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I don't even bother to look under each sub forum, if its not it in the recent posts list on the LHS then I don't see it at all.
I look in most days and therefore most newish stuff is still on that list.
Phil
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I don't even bother to look under each sub forum, if its not it in the recent posts list on the LHS then I don't see it at all.
I look in most days and therefore most newish stuff is still on that list.
Phil
:ThumbsUp:
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I normally come here twice every day, where I read every new post..
As I have been doing this since this site started, I have learned a lot from a very big number of people over the years and I'm very grateful for that :cheers:
I will also admit that I'm not the best commentator + I less and less often see something I have to ask about ....
Best wishes
Per
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I read all new posts daily but seldom comment, mainly due to others already saying virtually the same as I was thinking. The other reason for a drop in views is as stated earlier, the ebb and flow of fora in general. Keep posting as I look forward to them.
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Ray I do read post but don’t often comment on them. I guess most do the same, but I don’t think it isn’t because your work is not interesting because you do quality work. I won’t stop posting because I am sure plenty read it. I understand it’s encouraging to get comments for your work so I would say I too am guilty of not commenting more.
Regards Don
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Ray et al,
Sorry if I've been part of the problem. I have about an hour in the evening to look at the posts. I tend to look at the ones that interest me most and are on the website when I read it. Life as it has been for the last year, I don't have the energy by 9 in the evening to think much beyond reading. I haven't had the time to work on my own projects. I have been reading about your leeks mystery engine and enjoyed that, w/o looking back I don't remember if I posted a reply. My family is preparing to sell my parents home and end that chapter of our lives, lots of pressure and anxiety that will be over soon. I have to say I was never able to keep up with everything on the forum even when on vacation. I have to say though that when I was building Val the most important thing to me even if no one replied was the number at the top of the page saying red 309 times. As it climbed I appreciated how many people were following.
Art
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Here's the problem as I see it, at least as it affects my behaviour. Way too many sub forums. we're all busy and I only look a few areas when I sign in. so 90% of posts go unnoticed by me.
26 forums suggests an need to want to organize. However, I challenge the leadership to ask why? The goal (imo) of social media should fun and free flowing conversations, show and tell etc....not methodical grouping and organizing. Things are found nowadays by searching not index cards.
I'd cut it down to 5 forums so each would be much more active/dynamic. It would be a manageable number to click through so more of us would see more of the site. I've said it before I know others oppose my view, but I'll keep chipping away :)
Interesting question. I agree - that's a lot of subforums. But what I do is basically ignore the subforum (except when I'm starting a new post or thread). I ALWAYS go immediately to the "Show unread posts since last visit" link immediately below the "Hello <name>" title in the header. If you use that, you always see the list of posts that you haven't read yet. I never step through 26 forums. And the sidebar only shows the 10 most recent posts. And on busy days, you can miss posts if you only look at the "Recent Posts" sidebar!
"Show unread posts since last visit" is what works for me.
Kim
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I don't know if it's just me or if other forum members are finding the same thing, but response to my recent posts, both on my Alyn Foundry RLE and on my Mystery (Leek) engines has been almost non existent, with, perhaps, one comment if I am lucky, but more often no response at all. I don't know whether this means they are simply not being read, or are not of any interest, but it makes me seriously question whether there is any point in continuing to post if no-one is interested.
Well Ray (and all the others who have commented- and of course those who haven't ;)) your observation is something that I have made reference to on occasion in the past.
I have always been reluctant to do so however in case it is seen as asking for compliments but if the question isn't asked then it's not answered.
I think it fair to say that since I've been a member on here I've done my fair bit of posting over the years covering several builds of varying type and before that is read as 'some sort of claim' I'm well aware of those that have done as much or even more. I have always done so in the hope that what I have done will be of interest and of use to those who look in and it's always pleasing (for me) to see that someone has taken the time to make a comment (even if it is the "what 'Fred' said" kind of reply ::)) and especially those from someone new to the forum or thread.
Of course it is always gratifying to see the numbers that look in overnight after posting and to realise that many are obviously following but as I've stressed before I've always posted in the hope of communication with others. Some do, most don't, so its a two edged sword as far as I'm concerned. But when at times there is no response at all I have, on more than a few occasions, questioned if it is all worth the candle. An example springs to mind - during the Wide a Wake thread after a particularly long post well into the night I was perplexed to see the following morning that despite 508 visits having been made overnight not one comment was made. It is at times like that that one does begin to wonder why one is spending so much time to share with others when they in turn aren't seemingly are not willing to share a few seconds of appreciation - and not of whats been done but of the fact that it has been posted - for their benefit after all.
This did bug me in a way for a time but now see it as it would appear others have and the desire to post on a regular basis has just faded away.
Age plays another part and 'tiredness' is definitely setting in so to give a fair part of modelling time to think about what's required for the next posting has definitely waned. I'm currently building a Marine Compound engine but have little if no desire to post about it as a build log. That's the first model I've made since becoming a member that I haven't done so.
So I guess like others I will just fade away but I'll leave with this comment to those who lurk and never ever bother to comment.
The person who is posting is doing so for several reasons not least to share with you the reader his experiences from which you can benefit - the fact that you are reading that latest post shows you have an interest so just think about the fact that here is something new to gratify that interest - done by someone you don't know, for you and all the others like yourself enjoying this latest installment. Do yourself a favour and just once in a while tell that poster you appreciate their efforts - that will go a long way to making them feel that what they are doing for you is truly worthwhile.
Happy modelling guys - enjoy that shid time if nothing else :)
Tug
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Well folks,
Speaking as a complete newcomer to the site, I think it's a brilliant site and anyone who has responded to me has been more than helpful ,now I was born in the 60s and I'm not much into computing and so fourth(ask my long suffering son)
But I use my smartphone most of the time and I would love to put up photos or videos but it's very difficult.
Now I am on a motorcycle forum on Facebook and it's so easy to interact with!
But then there is so much wonderful information on this site I don't know if that could work.
Anyway I think this is a great site!
Dan the man
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This is an interesting thread, and at times I have felt the same as the OP.
It takes significant time to create a readable and, with luck, informative post. I appreciate that I don't post much on this forum. That's partly because I'm not really interested in model engines. :-[ What really interests me is engineering, machining techniques and the underlying design and working principles.
I am on three forums and it is interesting to compare the responses. I have recently finished what is called a button valve for my traction engines. It's not often seen on models and I have created the design based on full size drawings. On another model forum I got absolutely no response whatsoever. So on that forum I have decided not to make any more work in progress posts. On the TT forum I got an excellent response and lots of useful comments based on full size engines. I also got a lot of helpful advice on TT while creating the design. I haven't got around to posting the work on this site as yet.
I am also aware that I have a well equipped workshop based mostly on ex-industrial machine tools. There have been some snide remarks on other modelling forums, and even in a UK modelling magazine, about far eastern machines being fine and one doesn't need ex-industrial tooling. That's put me off posting. Is there is any point in showing techniques using machines and accessories that many members will not have?
Part of my excuse for not posting is that I have been working over the last few months and it hasn't been going too well. But I have to knuckle down as I was unable to work for nine months and the savings are almost all gone. The wolf hasn't rung the doorbell yet, but he's hovering with intent on the pavement!
Andrew
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I thoroughly enjoy reading other posts and looking at the techniques used. Although there have machines around me for quite a long time in my fathers workshop I unfortunately did not learn as much as I could or should have. Unfortunately my father passed away just over 4 weeks ago (5 months short of his 100th) and was in hospital for couple of weeks before that, so nothing has happened in the workshop for couple of months. Still trying to sort out probate paperwork and all that that entails.
It is nice to receive comments on my work good or bad. In particular on my recent refurb of a Stuart 10V which needed major work on steam ports, bearings and cylinder. Advice on here and MEW guided me on my way. I have machines ranging from Bridgeport clone down to Cowells mill and I find looking at work from Andrew (Jadge) and Jo amongst other very helpful.
Perhaps its not thinking for myself but I like to read others builds of an engine I am going to build and then document any errors they may have found, any particular setups that are required, any issues with sizes of castings etc. Hopefully by doing this I will cut down on the cockups that I make.
I have noticed this reduction in postings on several sites and wonder whether some of it is due to members investigating other hobbies and interests whilst they have been stuck at home, or maybe just getting on with long put off household improvements.
Whatever, I would like to hope that many of this forums contributors will continue to post on their work in progress.
Colin
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Thanks to you all for your responses. The objective of my thread was to provoke some discussion and it has certainly done just that! This is clearly an issue that strikes a chord with many members and perhaps we should all bear in mind just how much a few well chosen words of encouragement, or even constructive comment, mean to the member posting details of their latest project, or, indeed,seeking help or advice.
Colin, I am so sorry to hear of the loss of your father and how sad that he didn't quite make his 100th. I echo exactly the comments in your last paragraph. This is an excellent forum and it is up to all of us to keep it going.
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I noticed the decline in responses to posts starting about a year ago. I guess the worries and concerns of this Covid thing may be having a deeper effect on the way we behave and respond to the outside world than we realise. Do we now read the forum posts as a sort of comfort food and find ourselves too preoccupied with real world concerns to respond?
Keep safe
Mike
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I look at the site once or twice a day, very frequently as a visitor. I should follow more of the blogs which make this site appealing. I am fully aware that writing a blog is time consuming and can seem unproductive.
Using a different name I am a member of another model engineering forum which, compared with this forum, can get like the Wild West with the moderators getting shot at. I have to say the interests of its members are very broard and general. Some appear to use it as their real world.
I rather like the slow pace of this forum but even I have been aware of the slowing down of postings and replies. I agree with Colin that COVID may be one of the causes (Colin, I give my condolences). I have missed Jo's words of wisdom.
AVTUR
Just seen the last two postings - Mike, please don't fade away.
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It is a difficult question. A lot of people are re-evaluating their lives under the current conditions. Yesterday evening the weather was good so I walked down to the lake with my wife to watch the sunset rather than going down to the cellar. I am probably putting being out in nature above modelmaking at present.
Like others who have responded to this thread I try to read as many posts as I can. I will certainly respond with a question or suggestion if appropriate and sometimes praise/encouragement.
What sort of response is reasonable/normal? If I posted my latest creation finished and working I would be happy with 5-10 responses. If I am posting a 'bite sized, 8 pics max' build log I might expect a response every 4-5 posts. What does the panel think?
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I find progress reports, problems, problems solved, novice qestions, complicated questions, novel ideas, daft ideas, clever solutions, whacky machining set-ups, fiddly constrution, unusual prototypes, controversial opinions, irrelevance and (better) irreverence are all interesting.
Blow-by-blow build logs (unless by a beginner needing hand-holding) with little explanation and lots of images of run-of-the-mill machining operations, not so much.
Fifteen congratulatory posts are only desirable when the thing is finished (or at least works). (I would have liked a few more when I got my first IC engine running a couple of months ago, after 11 years building it!)
It is another sunny spring afternoon and I have gardening to do.
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I have not posted any questions or builds because of this same issue. I still come to see the other builds and still love watching.
Dave
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Just adding to the discussion here:
I like this forum a lot and I like the text/photos/short-videos format. I read most new posts within a couple of days of them going up.
I would hate to see this Forum go away.
I do not participate in social media like Facebook and Twitter and the others because I don't feel like sharing all of my life with a lot of people who talk about a whole lot of things.
I became less interested in posting here and elsewhere after the Photobucket disaster and did not want to go down the path of 3rd-party hosting with another place that might try the same thing.
I also had my life taken over by two deaths and more additional health events in my family and shop time dropped to only a few hours a week.
I am trying to get back into the shop and definitely plan on posting in the future.
I would like to thank and congratulate all those who do post whatever they post, as long as it concerns the subjects that have to do with machining, model engines, boats, and trains; and the history of all of that. I will continue to watch, even if I don't respond to every new thing that shows up.
I would suggest that any political or similar comments are not appropriate here. The same goes for personal attacks against other posters.
I think it is possible that "responsiveness" and the desire to post new material comes and goes over time, but there are still viewers for whatever is made available.
There were a lot of "good practice" suggestions for writing posts in the pages before this, and I think adopting some of those can help authors and posters improve their feeling about the work of writing.
Thank You for Listening,
ShopShoe
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Quite often I don't post comments because as a rookie I don't have anything intelligent to say other than 'wow', or a version thereof, and I don't want to be boring.
Maybe one day I'll be able to be of more use to others on the forum...
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I’ve been on this forum for quite a few years now and I’ve noticed there is a certain pattern to the ebb and flow of comments here. Give it some time. Fall and winter seems to be our peak periods for both builds and comments. Right now you’re competing with spring and the beginning of outdoor activities. The other thing I’ve noticed is that when we have a large amount of “advanced” builds like we do now there are less comments. In some ways I think the skill level on display right now can be quite intimidating to some and that impacts the number of comments.
Tony
Yes, I agree with Tony here. I haven't been on this forum long enough to really know but I suspect here is something of an ebb and flow to these things. And his post about advanced builds is echoed in my previous post above.
For my part, I have noticed quite a variation in the number of replies I get, but it doesn't bother me really - I realise that people have busy lives. And if nothing else, a thread without many comments can still function as a personal build log. I do of course value the comments I receive though!
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The other way to get some positive feedback to those making the effort to post photo essays is to enable the "like" function. It lets posters know that its appreciated. Quick and easy for readers and for some threads it might a a better solution than 30 "awesome" posts.
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Does SMF support a 'like' function? I've been a part of several forums that use SMF and haven't seen a 'like' feature, but that doesn't mean it isn't there :) I know there are various settings that the forum admin can enable. Is enabling a "Like" feature one of them?
Kim
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Kim
Way back in the HEM days....We had a "like" button...though as I remember, it wasn't called a like, but something else........but it was a "like"
I suspect there is something....as most social media outlets have one.
I'm looking at the posts, and taking it in. Part of me shakes my head, and some of it i've been guilty of myself. All I know is that I would like to see this group of friends stay together.
Maybe that's the pre-requisite.
Dave
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Just to express my interest in the comments on this present subject, and to say what interest and pleasure I have continued to have from this excellent and almost always friendly and helpful forum.
The last year plus has seen me necessarily out of the workshop,very time consuming family concerns, and such a difficult year as we all know: but picking out items from the recent unseen posts and occasionally having a comment to make has kept me onboard with my hobby , though swarf has not materialised.
The several build logs and features, on my steam engines and workshop matters, that I have done a while back, seem to still attract extra readers. So although the comments have mostly been over and done with back at the time, these features by very many contributers do build into a massively useful reference file on most aspects of model engineering, which can happily be poked around in with a spare hour. Yes, it would be nice to have a fresh comment on a several years old topic, but unless there is a query, it probably won't happen! So thank you to the moderators and other movers and shakers of MEM who have created something of , I think, real value, and companionship too. Dave
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Hi All, I have now nearly finished my latest engine .sort of....but with lockdown I am not able to get a brass plate to attach To it.?? Also I cannot get out to visit places with interesting engines that I would like to model ...also it is ring and there is lots to do in the Allotment...also I have been persuaded to become the editor of the Norfolk Organic Magazine and I am struggling with trying to do this without being able to speak to people face to face. All this is contributing to my activities and lack of them on this site although I do read most of the posts usually at 3 am in the morning just before I go to bed . sometimes I respond , but usually I have nothing extra to add to the comments already posted ?!! It would be good to have a thumbs up like button to just press instantly..?? so .there is still lots of interesting builds happening here which is good and am taking this opportunity to tidy up the WKSP and all the other spring cleaning chores that require my attention !! Also all this covid stuff is getting really tedious for me as well as lots of other people...
So ....soon things will get back to normal one day ..................... :) :) :)
Willy
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Some excellent comments have already been stated and I fit the mold in many of them. I read each and every post and follow several of them until the end. I have revisited several of the older threads in an attempt to jumpstart what I felt was an interesting build that may have stalled. I do not comment nearly as often as I have in the past but it not from lack of interest, it has more to do with what my life is dealing me at present. Most certainly this forum is a common ground that many of us enjoy and that many a newcomer can come to in the hopes of finding answers to their questions without being made out to be daft or worse. There is no such thing as a stupid question applies here. I am going back into my cave now, :DrinkPint:
BC1
Jim
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This forum (or rather its precursor) got me into machining. I've made many friends here.
I'm not a member on any other forum although my searches often takes me to them.
I've found this forum to be the friendliest and most helpful. So many members are willing to take their time to answer any question.
I do find it hard to post comments. I usually don't know enough to provide much help myself and just posting 'awesome' just doesn't seem to do enough justice to the quality of work I see here.
And, I'm bothered a bit by posting just silly jokes or snide comments (although I've always welcomed them).
If I recall correctly, a 'like' button has led to competition which is something I don't think we want.
On the other hand, the number of 'reads' doesn't really mean someone read a post. Just clicking through can tick the number. No?
A 'like' button at least means someone took the time to read and appreciate a post.
This forum (rather, its members) don't seem the type to get into a 'like' competition.
Perhaps it can be tried. It can be removed if it becomes a problem.
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To Zee,
You have voiced another thought of mine through your comment about the "Like". I was seeing that feature on other forums as an attempt to mimic social media and had the thought that competition for number of them might not be good, and definitely might not be constructive. BUT--But I am rethinking my position regarding that feature based on some of the posts above and may try to start "liking" things I like, when I want to encourage someone and don't have time to write a post.
Now, I also just noticed your sig lines again and notice the third one: "Thread Trasher". I don't think you are that and I make a point to read your posts because I think you have some very good things to say and seem to write well-thought-out posts.
Thank You for your posts,
ShopShoe
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As usual, late to the game. Sorry not to have participated as much on the forum as in the past, but I do at least find time to read about half of what shows up in the "unread posts" list every other day or so. I have 3 or 4 projects languishing at home...
You would think (well, I at least thought) that in the lockdown I would have had more time to work on those projects...but being involved in manufacturing, and ourc company having a product that is used in hospitals and government institutions including the disease research centers, we got quite busy last year....and my R+D time went up, even to the point that I was taking work home to mill on my DRO equipped mini mill...so my need to machine was more than satisfied by work.
But I do intend to finish up a couple of threads I started, and will probably always be checking in on stuff that interests me. I will try and do a better job of lurking, and toss in the occasional encouragement too.
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For my part, I don't always need an "attaboy". I am genuinely interested in feedback. If someone chimes in with "an alternative is to do this.........." that is exceedingly well received by me. Not perceived as criticism.
But I also understand that it takes time to provide that feedback, and we're all short on that.
Anyway, always pleased to have people look in at what I'm doing. I went back and looked at my own build log and it's perhaps not as sparsely commented on as I have myself believe sometimes.
This is a nice forum - generally no drama, genuine interest provided from the membership and so on. I guess the lack of drama equates to smaller amounts of viewing traffic and responses, so it's all pros and cons, like everything else.
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Well..... my deal is I build internal combustion. Other than simple wobbles i have never built a steam engine. Dont really understand exactly how they work ie steam boxes or reversing gear. So when I look at a post I mostly look at the photos and if I can't make out what's going on in the photo I read the text. I really dont have anything to offer as I cant spot things that would hinder a well running engine. Ic engines I can spot things like the fuel tank being mounted too high. With other types of engines like steam or sterling I simply dont have anything helpful to say so I typically don't say anything.
I'm the guy who waits for someone to ask questions and if I can I will try to offer some help. If questions dont get asked I take that as "hes got this" and I enjoy the post and move on.
I myself have done a few threads so I know what is involved in doing all the extra work. Those threads really didn't help anyone at the time. But over the years I would bet many of guys who have built my V8 have gone back to that thread specifically to look at a piece and "see how he did it". I'm guessing your thread will be no different. Over the years people building that engine will read that thread over and over trying to pick up tips and tricks. Somewhere in this world there is someone who doesn't even know yet that this will be his hobby but when he finds out years from now, your build thread will be like finding treasure.
Your leaving a valuable gift.
$0.02
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It's always disappointing to see this.
I've also noticed the downward trends in posts as well. I could never figure out how the membership seems to "grow", but there is a lack of participation as well. It seems, a lot of folks just come here looking for a quick answer, the kind members here answer cordially, & that seems to satisfy them & they're on there way.
I'm like a lot of "lurkers" here, I've never built a model engine. I've always had the interest, but I have no machines. I'm somewhat "mechanically inclined" & enjoy making drawings of them. I read everything that comes up here & I've learned a lot from everyone, from the "noobies" to the old pro's, I'm always picking up something. There is a lot I don't understand, but read with enthusiasm.
It's a different kind of world these days, everybody has different priorities. I don't think the silence is just limited to the forums, it's happening everywhere.
My hats off to the admins & everyone who posts here. I've never had one of my questions go unanswered, so I know YOU are watching, & I appreciate that tremendously. Keep on posting...
"Awesome"... :ThumbsUp:
John
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Time for me to step in and comment. Firstly, I find this group a very friendly place. I’ve been on other forums and they can become quite hostile, I’ve never seen that here with my threads or on other threads for that matter. I know Jo stared earlier that she was getting negative input, but I can’t imagine why that would be. Her comments to my threads have always been informative, upbeat, and often even funny when Surus comes up.
I spend a fair amount of time with my posts, especially the ones in my threads. They are usually composed with a word processor so I get the spelling and grammar correct. I take a certain amount of pride in what I write and would prefer to be perceived as a competent person, even if my machining skills occasionally come up a bit short. Once the word smithing is done to my liking I cut-paste the text to the MEM thread.
With the amount of time spent, it’s nice to get comments; even if they are just a few smiley faces and popcorn. I’m not expecting a lot of accolades, I’ll leave them to the folks like George, Vixen, and others who really deserve them. It’s nice to see the occasional comment so I know at least a few people are taking the time to read what I write; as already stated the view count will advance just by someone clicking thru the posts.
I would hate to see this forum ‘go away’. There are some very skilled folks here that build amazing models. I find it fascinating to follow the progress of their builds.
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Many good comments here! I really enjoy reading about what people think of the situation and how to make it better.
I don't believe MEM is in any danger of 'going away'. This thread is just about how we make our threads more interesting and how can we show our enjoyment of other's posts and encourage them even if we don't have anything meaningful to add. That and the age-old question of how do we encourage the lurkers to step out of the shadows and post! :)
I, for one, am really enjoying the open and candid dialog that this thread is generating! I think it will have some positive impact on the forum. And in fact, I believe it already has!
Kim
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Just to say a little bit more.
I have been writing a blog in this forum on my attempt to build a model engine. It has not produced many replies but I do keep a record of the number of viewings. Each of my blog postings average about 200 viewing and this number is rising the more posting I add. I think I would give up if I got less than 30 viewings a posting. The attached photographs generally get between 15 and 30 viewings with the ones showing techniques getting more.
The blogs will continue in the near future.
AVTUR
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I haven't actually looked to see how many views each of my posts get. I like to embed photos in the text to give the text the right context, so I don't think I can track how many times a picture is viewed.
I must say, I do like the fact that I have a historical "blog" build log as a result of making the thread. It takes me a long time to build an engine, partly because I'm slow, partly because I don't get in the shed as often or as much as I want. It's actually gratifying to look at what i was doing at the start, and see at least some improvement in techniques and achievements over time. So whether anyone looks at it or not, there is that positive benefit to it. But I have had some really good input over time too.
I guess I have a certain amount of respectful envy for the really top notch builders, as they seemingly get lots more attention, but that's just the normal way of things in life generally, and to be expected.
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I picked up two casting sets this morning, an Alyn Foundry Sphinx and a set of Redwing castings. The Redwing just needs a head casting and the atomiser casting to complete the set. Some of the parts are machined already, cylinder bore, piston, crank, valves. The atomiser is machined but is missing at present. The Redwing castings and plans all came from Paul Breisch originally. Before I start either of these sets of castings I will be going through all the other builds I can find on this site for as much help as I can glean. If they did not have many views before (which I doubt) they will have lots by the time I have finished. As Steve Hucks says "your build threads will be treasure to someone in the future", so please don't stop producing them.
Colin
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I said this before on the old forum but I'll repeat it here. Model engines alone is too narrow a topic for a healthy, active forum. Open the subject to model engineering in general. I know that non-engine topics are allowed, even encouraged, but I'm talking about a more aggressive approach that seeks out and hauls new topics in.
Some of the topics by George (Britnell) and Chris (Rueby) are non-engine and have had an enthusiastic following. Of course, part of that is due to their excellence as builders but at least some of the enthusiasm stems from the uniqueness of what they are building.
Twenty-six subfora is just plain ridiculous. More than six is excessive. Encourage readers to look at the recent posts and learn to pick out what they want to read more deeply. Trying to satisfy their individual narrow interests with subfora is nonsense. HSM, a much bigger forum with many more participants and a much wider subject matter, gets on just fine with six subfora and a few of those could easily be eliminated.
I'm not much for writing encouragement posts; too much like the excessive "liking" I see elsewhere. I will write admiration posts if the work shown is particularly impressive.
Most of my posts are aimed at trying to help folks with their problem and therein lies an issue. If I don't get a response to those posts, I tend to drop the subject and, in some cases, the original poster. Most annoying are detailed responses explaining why they can't use my suggestion. Often these reasons weren't mentioned in the original problem statement. I don't expect everyone to use every suggestion I make but, if it isn't suitable, just say "thank you" and move on. Remember, if you want responses, you incur an obligation to respond to responses. In society we call it conversation.
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(some stuff snipped)
Most of my posts are aimed at trying to help folks with their problem and therein lies an issue. If I don't get a response to those posts, I tend to drop the subject and, in some cases, the original poster. Most annoying are detailed responses explaining why they can't use my suggestion. Often these reasons weren't mentioned in the original problem statement. I don't expect everyone to use every suggestion I make but, if it isn't suitable, just say "thank you" and move on. Remember, if you want responses, you incur an obligation to respond to responses. In society we call it conversation.
Marv
I completely agree, this has always been something that irritates me. If someone cant take the time to acknowledge responses to their posts, I loose interest rather quickly to ever commenting on their work again. Sure most people on the forum don't do this but some do. I was raised to always say thanks, and I always try my best to do so.
Dave
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Marv
I completely agree, this has always been something that irritates me. If someone cant take the time to acknowledge responses to their posts, I loose interest rather quickly to ever commenting on their work again. Sure most people on the forum don't do this but some do. I was raised to always say thanks, and I always try my best to do so.
Dave
The ones who really annoy me are the ones who ask for help on some problem and, when you point them to a ready-made solution problem, finally tell you that they really want to make it themself. If you want a DIY answer, specify that up front, don't make responders excavate the fact.
Another irritation. It seems any post that involves the use of mathematics, no matter how minor, will elicit a barrage of posts from folks who are eager to tell the world how little they know of math, posts that add nothing to the subject. I can't fathom this motivation to advertise one's innumeracy.
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Another irritation. It seems any post that involves the use of mathematics, no matter how minor, will elicit a barrage of posts from folks who are eager to tell the world how little they know of math, posts that add nothing to the subject. I can't fathom this motivation to advertise one's innumeracy.
Marv, I have always been very appreciative when you have chimed in with information, and I certainly hope that has come across, because I agree with you wholeheartedly. I have written a number of technical threads on a motorcycle forum I am involved with, and the information is freely given, but I must say it is gratifying to get comments on those threads still, 12 or more years later, just letting me know the info was useful.
As regards the mathematics aspect, I'm afraid that jumping in barrage thing is common to just about every forum. Offer a solution and a bunch of people with nothing useful to add will chime in and take the thread off topic. I swear - on some forum or another someone asked "is dollar shave club any good?" Only to be barraged by a bunch of guys bragging on how great their unkempt beards are.
I don't know why that incident suddenly sprang to mind. Same idea I suppose.
Anyway, I've done more trigonometry since getting into model engineering than I have in years. At work most of my maths is stress, strain and bending moments. Which is fun too.
Anyway, again many thanks to you and the other experienced people who offer useful advice and guidance. I have bookmarked many of your threads and posts.
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Here is a thought which may go someway to reward members for all the effort they put into posting on our MEM forum.
If you look at 'who is on-line' at the bottom of the 'Home page' you will notice that the guest visitors usually outnumber the users (registered members?). Clearly our MEM forum has a much wider audience and reaches a larger model engineering community than we realise. As I understand it, a visitor cannot post without first registering; therefore a visitor cannot show his or her appreciation for anything they found worthy of comment.
Is this an opportunity missed?
A "like button" has been proposed by several members, but a "like button" is somewhat divisive (I've got more than you.....etc) and smacks of Facebook and other similar social media. Would it be possible for the Admins or most likely Ade, to create a "click the button to show your appreciation" feature instead. I am sure an "appreciation button" would be more appropriate than a "like button" even though the both do essential the same thing. Furthermore, an "appreciation button" would be so much better if it were available to a guest visitor as well as the registered forum members.
Is this possible? What does the panel think?
Mike
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Is this possible? What does the panel think?
Yes.
No: The Admins had a vote on "likes and the like" years ago, we agreed that things like that cause bad feeling especially when childish people think it is fun to "buck" the system. I recall watching on one ME forum where two members had an agreement to keep liking each other and the difference for their scores was more than a little noticeable and the feature was quickly removed.
If people wish to participate they are welcome to become a member.... Members who have never posted are disappointing :(
Jo
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For what it's worth, I am glad we do not have the "like" feature, for exactly that reason.
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no: The Admins had a vote on "likes and the like" years ago, we agreed that things like that cause bad feeling especially when childish people think it is fun to "buck" the system. I recall watching on one ME forum where two members had an agreement to keep liking each other and the difference for their scores was more than a little noticeable and the feature was quickly removed.
If people wish to participate they are welcome to become a member.... Members who have never posted are disappointing :(
Jo
Jo, Stuart.
I also agree with the Admin's wise decision about "likes and the like". My proposed "appreciation button" would only be a "like" by another name.
But please understand, that I am only trying to find an alternative format for our forum members to quickly and easily show their appreciation without the difficulty of finding suitable wording.
This topic now has well over 1400 views/visits and more than 57 replies; which says, to me, that many members would like to see a change from the status quo.
Mike
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Jo, Stuart.
I also agree with the Admin's wise decision about "likes and the like". My proposed "appreciation button" would only be a "like" by another name.
But please understand, that I am only trying to find an alternative format for our forum members to quickly and easily show their appreciation without the difficulty of finding suitable wording.
This topic now has well over 1400 views/visits and more than 57 replies; which says, to me, that many members would like to see a change from the status quo.
Mike
[/quote]
Agreed.
John
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Well I can tell you this I post a lot less after being told my videos were nit appreciated as they were to long and they didn't have time to watch them. And basically there were no members defending the videos and stating you don't need to watch the whole video. Anyway I was turned off big time thinking no one wanted to see my videos. A thanks or thank you button would go a long way in letting a member if they should continue posting in the form the are posting or not. Just my thoughts take it as you want.
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I don't recall ME ever having a Like feature (but could be wrong) though there were a couple of "friends" who would agree with each others comments.
Interestingly the ME forums software is just about to be updated and a "Like" feature is available and has been activated on their sister forum and I expect it will also be on ME. There are several options for whet response can be clicked and also the option to to run a tally of menbers recieved likes but this is unlikely to be used.
I have certainly noticed this forum getting quieter, at one time I could click on show unread posts and it would be a page or more, lately 4-5 posts. Looking at analytical data I have for similar forums to this they all took a bit of a drop in the second half of 2019 but MEM has continued to drop off the charts while the likes of ME has become far more active and is now often higher ranked than HSM with HMEM in third. MEM and Mad-Mod are only 1/10th the size or less where they still show on the graphs.
Like a lot of people I don't look at the forum headings just at the latest posts and don't feel having a lot of headings makes much difference, ME has way more than here yet is the most active of all this type of forum at the moment.
Some comments have been made on new members not equalling new posters, one of the things that may explain this is the need to be a member to see any attachments, I often direct people to a thread or threads on here but add the comment they will have to register to see the pics if they are mainly posted as attachments.
I'm not one to just post "looking good" great progress" for the sake of it and don't read all the threads. I'm more likely to answer a question or comment on what has been posted, some may not like it so have posted a bit less here plus so much to keep up with on ME. I do make use of the like button on TT for the few threads that I now follow and would probably use it here too. One advantage of a like button is you then don't get the thread come up as having new postings and waste time just to see someone has posted "good job"
I've voiced my views on images placed at the end of a post as attachments several times in the past as they do not make it so easy to follow what's been written and have said to some people who were unhappy about the lack of response that if you put the minimum into a post then you are likely to get the minimum back. Attached images are handy to add an odd photo to a post but I don't find them conducive to a good build thread.
J
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I take Jason's point about images in the text rather than as attachments at the end of the post. I believe that you need to use a third party hosting site to do this, but I must confess to my ignorance of how this works. Perhaps someone could enlighten me please.
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Hi Ray. These days I use imgur.com which is currently free.
John
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Ray there are many free or paid for hosting sites, I still use Photobucket, that you upload your images to and then copy a link into your post, much the same way as anyone here posting a video will have to upload to Youtube, vimeo, etc.
It also acts as another form of backup should you loose records at home and if like me you post on more than one forum it's quite easy to copy and paste a whole post with image links rather than have to add them to each forum.
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I said this before on the old forum but I'll repeat it here. Model engines alone is too narrow a topic for a healthy, active forum. Open the subject to model engineering in general.
+1
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If you want to post for something that there is not already a dedicated area on the forum we use "Chatterbox". If we find we are getting inundated with posts in a subject then we could possibly make a new area for them. Many of the areas that have been spun off like Casting and 3D printing seem to have died a death and may need rolling into somewhere else :thinking:
We all ready have threads about gardening, oil painting, cross stitch :-X, covid, electronics, full sized engines, retirement ... the only thing that I am aware of so far is we lack a thread on what the Cross Stitchers call SABLE ::)
I am not sure what areas of Model Engineering are not already covered :headscratch: I'll let you get posting in chatterbox on subjects in these missing areas and we can see where it takes us :)
Jo
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The homemadetools forum...
https://www.homemadetools.net/forum/activity.php
where I do most of my posting has no "like" function but instead has a "thanks" function, virtually the same as what Vixen has proposed.
Despite the fact that one can obtain certain awards (non-monetary) via thanks count, I've seen no member try to work the system and the "evil" count among the members there is much higher than it is here.
Nothing is perfect but "thanks" seems to be somewhat better than the much dreaded (and appropriately so) "like".
I agree that appended pictures interfere dramatically with the flow of what is written. Homemadetools hosts its own photos, the only way to go, IMNSHO. Any third party site can, and probably will, go the way of photosuckit or just simply disappear entirely one day.
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I will take this back a stage to why do we want a forum and want to post on a forum? For me:-
- I enjoy my model making and like to share it. I am aware that quite a lot of what I do tends towards the odd kid at school playing alone in a corner but that is my normal life being somewhere on the Asperger's spectrum.
- I like to see what other people are making and possibly more important how they are making it. No one is an expert in everything.
- I like to be able to ask questions, I don't know everything.
- I would like to be able to offer someone else help if I can
Why do you want a forum and want to post on it?
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...
- I enjoy my model making and like to share it....
- I like to see what other people are making and possibly more important how they are making it. No one is an expert in everything.
- I like to be able to ask questions, I don't know everything.
- I would like to be able to offer someone else help if I can
Why do you want a forum and want to post on it?
As a good friend of mine says...
All of us are smarter than any one of us.
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:ThumbsUp:
Appreciate
Thank you
Like
Just to let you know someone is listening to what you have to say.
Mike
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You summed it up perfectly for me Roger.
Lots of good points raised by everyone, as usual, and very good points on forum layout and content.
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That reminds me of the despair.com posters, specifically:
"Teams: Together, we can do the work of one."
"Meeting: None of us is as dumb as all of us."
I had the "Meetings" poster in my office for years. One day a colleague, in the middle of a meeting, noticed it and started laughing. Even funnier as he'd previously spend hours in meetings there and not noticed it.
OK, OK. I'll try to post more replies and pretty soon a model build. Sorry for being lax. Thanks to everyone who's picking up the slack for me. :-) (a smiley specially for Marv)
Thanks.
As a good friend of mine says...
All of us are smarter than any one of us.
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I
Like
Love
Appreciate
:ThumbsUp:
Marvs friends quote
All of us are smarter than any one of us
Colin
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I have to agree with a lot of what has been posted above. For me, shop time is a sparse thing. Taking photos and going through all that is necessary to post them along with a write up is very time consuming. The photos that I post tend to be more of setups and techniques in the hopes that someone will learn from them. Without feedback, it doesn’t become worth the time. Compounding this, I let my technology fall far behind. This made it a very long process to even post pictures. I did get a new i-Pad yesterday that will allow me to do everything on one device. So, I should become more active from that along with we are out of plow season up here in the North.
-Bob
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There seems to be at least two topics flowing in this thread.
1) The apparent decline of interest in the forum.
2) Receiving acknowledgement, whether by response posts, likes, thanks, etc.
With respect to the 1st, model engines is a small subset of the home machining hobby and the title of this forum makes me wonder if that's part of the problem.
Yes, additional sub-forums have been created and the chatterbox is filled with fascinating non-engine projects.
But engines are stressed to the point that some members have apologized for posting a build of a locomotive or ask permission to log an interesting non-engine topic.
I myself worried about posting a thread on a spinning wheel and tried to justify it as a finger treadle engine.
I confess I'm not a member here because of an interest in engines. (I do have an interest but not nearly to the level of many members here.)
I learn about machining here and even other subjects. The forum is full of teachers and helpers.
I never understood the complaints about lurkers or people who pop in with a question and are never seen again.
It's part of life. And, you never know when one of them decides this is for them and jumps in.
How many members started posting with..."I've been lurking for a while..."?
No I don't have any answers.
As for the 2nd item...
Marv mentioned the 'homemadetools' forum and the 'thanks' feature. I was just lurking on that forum the other night and noticed it.
Yes, I've lurked on there a number of times.
I like the thanks feature. I also like it because 'thanks' is more inclusive. How many times have you been told something you didn't like to hear but were grateful to know?
I understand the problem. Just like on other social media sites (and this forum is one) where people talk about how many likes they got or are bummed when they don't get enough.
Again, part of life.
But the thing that bothers me most is the concept of punishing the many because of the few.
Sure, there's going to be the person who spouts off about how many likes they got or argues. But that's not the case for the majority.
I deal with them by ignoring it.
Again, I have no answers. I really enjoy this forum and have learned an immense amount. I like the people.
A lot of work does go into putting together a post. But if all you're doing it for is to get acknowledgement then that's wrong.
Lack of acknowledgement is not lack of appreciation.
How many old threads have you come across that you found helpful or fascinating. Would you acknowledge it years after it was posted?
This is a free forum and free of pesky ads. Much appreciation and thanks for the admins.
My apologies. I hadn't realized I was standing on a soap box. I will go burn it now. ;D
BTW, as someone mentioned, posting a response revives a thread. I wouldn't want a 'like' or 'thank' feature to do that.
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What a wonderfully balanced appraisal Zee.
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Zee stated: “A lot of work does go into putting together a post. But if all you're doing it for is to get acknowledgement then that's wrong.”
While I agree with the spirit of that statement, I’ll offer another perspective. Sometimes we need “a shot in the arm”. When I was on the powerlifting team in college there were days that I just didn’t feel like going to the weight room. I had stayed up late the night before studying or writing a paper and could easily justify not going. However, I’d run across a teammate in my travels around campus who would inevitably ask if I was lifting that night. It was that simple question that was enough get me to go.
Another “shot” is going to a show. That always gets my enthusiasm going again to get back into the shop. Unfortunately, COVID killed that.
-Bob
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Well, Zee, that's a very well reasoned, thought-provoking post.
I couldn't agree more.
Personally, I like to share what I'm building and I find it enjoyable to share with others who appreciate the work and effort that go into making the things we do. But I've made the decision that I was going to post to share, and not for accolades. My sharing isn't necessarily the master class that many other threads on this forum are. Mine is more me sharing what I do, asking questions when I don't know, and hoping that others will point out better ways to do things so I'll learn. And even point out where I doing stupid things that could get me hurt! That has happened a time or two and I really appreciate the safety pointers from people! I want to enjoy our hobby, but I want to do it safely, of course! And I hope that others can learn from that too.
Having said all that, I also completely agree with your comment Bob. A word of encouragement can really go a long way in how someone feels about what they're doing and can help people feel accepted as part of the group.
I also want to emphasize the point you made about lurkers. While I'd love more people to post, I understand that there will always be lurkers. I started as a lurker on this site before I joined & started posting. I lurk on many other forums and never post. I'm not a regular lurker, but I do read threads on other forums to learn. So I understand that others will do that here, and I want to encourage that. I WANT lurkers to be welcome. I want them to feel so welcome that they'll even post eventually. Maybe. If they want to. Because in the end, you will get more out of the forum if you put something of yourself into it. I know this first hand. I've learned SO much more by posting than I would by just reading. But having said that, I still 'only lurk' on other forums. Such is life. I can't be fully committed to too many places. And I chose THIS forum, NOT because it was engines only, but because the people were kind, helpful, and welcoming. And there was not a lot of drama on this forum. I loved that! And I still love that!
I too would like to see us be more open to non-engine builds. As you said, they happen, but the feeling is that they are 'tolerated in moderation. I'd like to see us change that feeling and make people feel welcome to post whatever they are building. I hated that Chris felt he had to do his big Tonka RC truck build (sorry, I can't remember what it was really called) on a different forum. But he did. He posted a few teasers here. But that broke my heart. And we've had people post Tanks and other things and I LOVE it! I would like to see us encourage this! Would it help increase our contributors? I think so. Would it increase our readership? I'm sure it would. That is the one change I'd like to see us make.
Sorry, guess I stole your soap box, Zee :)
Kim
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There seems to be a desire or need for some to be acknowledged for their contributions, with a number of ideas floated that may be worth considering by the powers that run this site. I would only suggest that there is an occasional need for people to be mindful of, supposedly, 'jocular' commentaries. Your 'familiararity'
may not be appreciated or your choice of a word could be off putting. I made a grave error in being too blunt to a young member about his 'Chinese' Mill and thank SCO for his rebuke in a PM. As a mild example, the previous post by Kim, uses the term 'lurker' to refer to inactive or quiescent people not manifest. We are an international forum, some words carry a nuance or inference in some cultures. This example could carry a negative connotation, I would think those that remain unobserved be termed an 'observer'. Applause to all contributors! My twopenny worth. Regards, Paul Gough.
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Zee & Kim I read your comments several times, many excellent points made.
Paul your comments really hit the spot.
I am now probably regarded as a lurker, i read almost every post but i very rarely now leave reply's.
Being a engine novice i made the mistake of leaving a couple of rookie remarks, which prompted a couple of reply's which may not have meant much to the author, but did to me. The result was that i backed off and now tend to lurk.
I am also a member of a car forum which has a interesting post heading which is a daily diary. A single never ending post in which members show what they did that day. Reply’s are not necessary but the post encourages a wider range of members to participate due to the nature of a quick post. Just a thought.
I like this forum, the skill and projects shown by the members is incredible. Just be kind to each other.
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I started two of the never ending threads on ME several years ago, one a general "what did you do today" and the other "workshop progress" which have been very popular and copied by at least one other model engineering forum. To keep them manageable I actually start a new one each year. The idea was to allow people to post what they had been upto with out the need to start a specific thread which can put some people off particularly new members and hopefully stimulate some responses and discussion.
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Thanks SwarfMaker.
Bob...your point is well taken. Encouragement (or an ego stroke to put it bluntly) is certainly a need. (SwarfMaker's post felt really good.) Even if I'd underlined or made bold the 'all' in my statement "If all you're doing it for is to get acknowledgement then that's wrong.", was unnecessary and incorrectly conveyed what I was trying to say.
Kim...you're welcome to that soapbox. I'm in complete agreement with what you said.
Paul...I'm glad you brought that up. There are a couple of members here that I tend to poke and joke around with. They seem fine with it (I've even PM'd them to be sure they were okay with it) but I do wonder how other people take it. And I too have said things that were taken differently that what was meant. Nor is it just international. Coming to the east coast from the midwest I've used 'sayings' that made people look at me sideways or ask if that was a good thing or not. I find it hard, as the speaker, to be aware of how something may come across. As a receiver, I tend (or try anyway) not to assume that what someone said was meant to be negative. I'll ask or assume it was positive or meant in jest.
On that point, I appreciate people who, when offended take it off-line and PM me with their concern rather than airing it out on the forum. This happened more often in the precursor to this forum than here.
You're correct of course about the negative connotation with 'lurker'. That will be hard to change but I'm going to try.
Funny, I can't help but think of a library or museum when people talk about 'observers' to the forum. The authors of the books will not know how their work influenced or helped someone.
I mentioned earlier about this being a social media site but it's also a library and a museum.
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Daggers and Jason posted while I was writing this. Thumbs up to both of you.
And, Daggers, don't let it stop you. I made similar mistakes or got somewhat negative replies when I started and questioned whether to continue. It's really not much different than starting any relationship as both people learn about each other.
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This has been quite the thought provoking thread. Here's my input.
I've posted 5 or 6 build threads during the several years I've been on MEM. I didn't do them for the accolades. Rather ...I did them for several other reasons.
1). As a complete novice I wanted to have a platform to be able to get input (not accolades.......although there were quite a few and appreciated) and ask questions during my build. I learned a huge amount this way.
2). When I start a new build, the first thing I do is search for other build threads of the same project to see how others handled various operations. I wanted to pay that forward and provide documentation for others to look at. I think that's been fairly successful...........my little Elmer's #43 thread has had over 45,000 views since it's inception.
3). There are some incredible machinists and build threads here on MEM that I really enjoy and have learned a lot from. As a new machinist, I wanted to provide examples of machining at the other end of the scale in order to, hopefully, encourage others.
4). Finally for my own benefit. I used to have a pretty good memory.............nowadays not so much. I find that being able to look back at my previous build threads is really helpful to refresh my memory of how I did various operations.
Jim
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Build threads are good, but only if done with care. Nothing is more offputting than a fifteen minute video showing every detail, every swarf ribbon, of drilling, boring and threading a hole on the lathe. (The only excuse for such visual ennui would be a newbie explicit request to see how it's done.)
If you're inspired to do build threads, study Chris' (crueby) build threads. Text-embedded still pictures of model-critical steps or elucidation of some point made in the text; videos only when the project is finished and in motion. I think a large part of the popularity of his threads, beyond his modeling expertise, is his mastery of the build thread form.
Let's stop worrying about the exact terminology for lurkers. All this sensitivity about imagined offenses and exact phrasing is ridiculous among a bunch of folks who, for the most part, don't know the difference between 'lose' and 'loose'. Soon some hypersensitive wanker will be all atwitter about the fact that we talk about "bastard" files and refer to only male and female hose fittings.
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Let's stop worrying about the exact terminology for lurkers. All this sensitivity about imagined offenses and exact phrasing is ridiculous among a bunch of folks who, for the most part, don't know the difference between 'lose' and 'loose'. Soon some hypersensitive wanker will be all atwitter about the fact that we talk about "bastard" files and refer to only male and female hose fittings.
Never mind lapping and grinding :paranoia:
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Soon some hypersensitive wanker will be all atwitter about the fact that we talk about "bastard" files and refer to only male and female hose fittings.
Excellent use of Wanker. This thread was worth it just for that.
Well for what it's worth, I'm going to continue with my own build thread - gosh so magnanimous of me! I had considered abandoning it (the thread, not the engine), but when I get back to the lathe to single point threads on slender shafts with my new, improved and totally ripped-off-someone's-better-idea-than-mine support fixture, I'll push for the try line. (That is like the goal line, but in Rugby terminology). I feel somewhat and genuinely buoyed and enthused by the sentiments in this thread.
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More good points from everyone here! :)
I agree completely. Lurkers has a negative connotation (even in the west coast American English that I speak :)) and observer is a much less emotionally charged word. But what's more important than what we call observers is how we make them feel. If we make them feel unwelcome, they are less likely to ever join in.
And Marv, despite my above paragraph, I agree with what you're saying. We all need to get a little thicker skin and not take offense at the smallest perceived provocation. Wouldn't the world be a better place if we could all do that? Not to mention our forum! :)
Kim
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As my post seems to have provoked outrage in a recent post I should like to clarify my intent. It was not an appeal to impose literary exactitude nor some cleansed political correctness on posts. I wanted, merely, to suggest a little care with vocabulary and politeness, sensitivity if you wish, can be helpful in making people feel at ease.
No-one demands a highly cultured articulation of their work, but the same approach to language and the transmission of ideas that applies to ones engineering is not out of place, even amongst "...a bunch of folks, for the most part', don't know the difference between 'lose' and 'loose'." A somewhat judgemental and probably inaccurate assessment of the membership of the forum.
I wholeheartedly agree that Crueby's build threads are very well produced and presented, however I would urge tolerance towards less highly skilled producers of content, this forum is not a precinct exclusively for the highly skilled and knowledgeable. Regards, Paul Gough.
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Although I have said I prefer a thread with the pictures placed with the text I would still rather see people posting a build thread or any other thread/post in whatever way they can than not post one at all for fear that they are not doing it "with care"
Same goes for those that may have difficulty with spelling and grammar, lets not put people off of posting if they think they are not up to other's standards. Maybe a good time to revisit this post of John Bogs from the very early days of when the forum was started
https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,451.0.html
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As my post seems to have provoked outrage in a recent post I should like to clarify my intent. It was not an appeal to impose literary exactitude nor some cleansed political correctness on posts. I wanted, merely, to suggest a little care with vocabulary and politeness, sensitivity if you wish, can be helpful in making people feel at ease.
No-one demands a highly cultured articulation of their work, but the same approach to language and the transmission of ideas that applies to ones engineering is not out of place, even amongst "...a bunch of folks, for the most part', don't know the difference between 'lose' and 'loose'." A somewhat judgemental and probably inaccurate assessment of the membership of the forum.
I wholeheartedly agree that Crueby's build threads are very well produced and presented, however I would urge tolerance towards less highly skilled producers of content, this forum is not a precinct exclusively for the highly skilled and knowledgeable. Regards, Paul Gough.
Well put. I have learned tons on this forum (and others, more here though), and am still learning from most builds whether I comment on them or not. For myself, I don't know a lot of the finer details of an IC engine, so I probably miss a lot of that, but from the threads I'm learning more, may attempt one someday. Even on the ones I dont understand, there are setups and methods that apply to what I am trying to do, so I learn from that part of it. Sometimes I'll chime in with a question about how something on an IC engine works, and have just about always gotten a great answer. I know there are others that dont have as deep a grasp on steam, or sterling, whatever, and are in the same position as I am. Bottom line, keep the builds, questions, comments, likes, dislikes, elf jokes, and small rocks coming! (that last was to see if you are still reading that far into a rambling paragraph).
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Although I have said I prefer a thread with the pictures placed with the text I would still rather see people posting a build thread or any other thread/post in whatever way they can than not post one at all for fear that they are not doing it "with care"
Same goes for those that may have difficulty with spelling and grammar, lets not put people off of posting if they think they are not up to other's standards. Maybe a good time to revisit this post of John Bogs from the very early days of when the forum was started
https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,451.0.html
Well said, and John's too :ThumbsUp:
Dave
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I think there is a dimension to this topic that hasn't yet been touched upon, that is the characteristics of a typical male. I guess that the majority of contributors to this forum are men. In general i think that some/many/ most men are somewhat reticent to heap praise onto another male or comment on what they are doing. In the model engineering fraternity I think this characteristic is more pronounced. For example, at my ME Club meetings ( pre covid) if a new member showed up one evening there was a good chance that nobody would speak to him or her, this could go on for several meetings before the “ ice was broken”. Silly but true. Some would say this is “ British reserve” others might dismiss it as rudeness or ignorance but some would say “ it is a male thing”.
Much of our workshop time is spent alone so perhaps this tends to reinforce the reluctance to stretch out to others. This reluctance may also have been heightened by the enforced covid isolation we have all had to endure over the past year or so.
As for myself, i do not read every post, only those with a title relating to my area of interest. I rarely comment on those that I read because to me it is silly to just say “ well done” or similar.
Similarly, I rarely post messages relating to what i am doing perhaps thinking that “ it isn't earth shattering so nobody will be interested”. Perhaps I have been wrong on both accounts!!
However, I have asked plenty of questions and received very sound advice for which I am very grateful. I am quite impressed with the power of the forum when someone from a far off place helps solve my problem.
Finally, being a bit long in the tooth I do find the process of uploading photographs a bit of a mystery and somewhat long winded.
Lets us all try to keep this forum alive and active.
Regards
Trevor
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Once we start talking about the ability with the English language we need to note that there are quite a few on here who do not have English as their native language. I am English but live my life in German/Swiss German and struggle sometimes to get back to my native tongue.
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I don't really care about peoples inability with spelling, or that we have people who's native language is not English. Anyone who joins in with some enthusiasm and makes an effort should just get some good interaction. People do need to have more tolerance in that regard.
Lurkers I don't care about. What info I post is freely given, lurkers / casual observers are welcome, but the people I am interested in are people who make an effort to join in. It sometimes SEEMS like the most able of our forum tend to only interact on each others threads. But this is just as likely my own insecurity. It's something for everyone to keep in mind perhaps - it's one thing to openly welcome new members, but when the new members post their builds, they need feedback then as well, lest we become the clique referenced by Trevorc.
And for sure I'm no different to anyone else - I have limited time, and definitely have my favourite posters and thread types I look at and comment on.
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What a great thread! Really shows the character of the members here and why we're here.
Thank you Ray!
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Thanks Jason for reminding us of John Moore 'Bogstandard'.........
It would take a page to highlight just his communication skills .....let alone the other skills displayed by John over many different Forums
Forum Owners or Administrators could make it compulsary to read a few of Mr Moores machining ar build threads, then answer a quiz to see if they were suitable for yearly Membership renewal :stickpoke:
Example questions could be ....
1. What was the Brand name of his Engineering Drawing paper.........[back of a fag packet?]
2. What was the name of Johns second Dog?..........[Bandit was one......I would fail the test]
3. How did John describe 'certain' persons with Higher Engineering Degrees?.............[I cannot print these :Doh: words]
4. How many of every item did John produce?.....................[was it not 2 x everything?]
5. How would you describe his ..humility?, sarcasm?, wit?...........[10/10 for each would be the appropriate answer]
I think we as members could learn an unquantifiable bucket full of somethings, by re-reading :happyreader: a few postings from Johns threads which also includes his thoughts on the future of Forums
Derek
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Zee,
I think you made a comment about being a midwesterner living in the east, and the language difference. To give an example. I, from the midwest was in Philly. As some guy walked past me dropped a hat or glove. Trying to get his attention I say hey, HEY, no reaction.then I remembered, Yo, he immediately turned around.
I realized listening to this conversation that when I build I tend to know how I'll do the operation & post afterwards. Don't ask around unless I've run into problems. That may not be helpful but I have the expectation people will ask questions if need be.
Art
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Erm. As an owner of a sheepskin (somewhere in the pile of stuff in my office or at home) that says I'm a Master's degree Aeronautics/Astronautics Engineer...I agree pretty wholeheartedly that I lurk on this forum to learn about machining and real world engineering. The line boring jig for a V8 engine is a pretty nifty idea I may borrow someday*. Other rigs and setups posted here I have wholeheartedly stolen for use in making fixtures and prototypes for my real world job. Some of my best ideas came from the technicians and assemblers on the shop floor, and I've always done my best to make sure higher-ups knew where the idea originated. And yes, as I posted previously, I need to do my best to communicate that appreciation and acknowledgement to the posters here whenever I see something new - my degree (as my mentor told me) does not mean I've been taught everything - it means I've been taught how to learn. So, thanks everybody here for being my mentors in the field of machining, you've taught me a lot, and I'll try and be better at the communication thingy.
*note to self: go back and post an attaboy on that thread...
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bent......the wording used here referencing holders of higher Engineering Degrees, was only intended for the very few that needed to remind again and again, of such in their postings when being completely 'off the rails' in a basic engineering machining concept
Is that a genuine Australian Sheepskin in your study?
Derek
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Derek, et al:
I've thought a couple of days whether to respond to this post or not. I've finally decided I must, or I'm just in a weird mood today. (always gets me in trouble.)
I do like Bogstandard's threads and wish I had the time to search out old threads. But alas, there are too many threads out there (and I'm a slow reader). I also realize these bullets are taken out of context. But can 3 and 5 really be compatible?
There are many on this forum I learn a great deal from, and could learn a lot more by reviewing past threads. I've learned far more machining from those without "advanced degrees". My upmost respect to them, thank you. I've also known some brilliant engineers with advanced degrees. Just saying.
Thanks. Stay safe.
Hugh D. Currin, PhD, PEretired
Mechanical Engineer
Many times "off the rails"
Thanks Jason for reminding us of John Moore 'Bogstandard'.........
3. How did John describe 'certain' persons with Higher Engineering Degrees?.............[I cannot print these :Doh: words]
5. How would you describe his ..humility?...........[10/10 for each would be the appropriate answer]
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.. and refer to only male and female hose fittings.
OUTRAGEOUS!
Please get with the programme. Hose fittings of gender must never be stereotyped by their physical shape. This deeply traumatises a hose fitting, which is clearly the reason why so many of them leak...
AS (MSc CEng MIET)
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...................then answer a quiz to see if they were suitable for yearly Membership renewal :stickpoke:
That's a fail for me then. I never had anything to do with subject person on this forum. But on another forum he was down right insulting (to the extent that he had posts deleted) and was unwilling, or unable, to assimilate different viewpoints. Darned if I was going to genuflect, so he was put on my ignore list. Obviously that's a minority view, but means that I'm now questioning my forum membership.
Andrew
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"Is that a genuine Australian Sheepskin in your study?"
Guffaw. I wish, pretty sure it's just middling-decent heavy weight paper. Haven't seen a real sheepskin since my Dad wore a riding coat of sheepskin (that was quite likely Australian in origin, though it could have come from the Pendleton, Oregon area). The sheepskin horse saddle pad he used came from my sister's sheep that she raised for her 4H program, which I tanned for him after we butchered it.
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He was also effectively thrown off of here and ME, hope that won't happen to you Andrew.
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He was also effectively thrown off of here and ME, hope that won't happen to you Andrew.
I certainly wasn't sticking up for him in anyway, I just agreed with what he wrote at that time. I have been here since pretty much the beginning and was happy when he left the forum.
Dave
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I've been watching this post "from a distance" ...not really willing or able to join in constructively. For my posts I use an old, cheap camera that is not always in focus, I have neither the time or expertise to fit text between photos. Flyboy Jim's point 4 is a great reason to post......it makes me create a record of my shed activity. Something I would not do without the forum. It does ME good to review my fumblings . If nobody watches so be it, but the view count tells me some do. I have also received lots of good advice from several members and I also enjoy looking at other folks methods and machines / shops, etc. This is a great forum and my thanks go to the Admins. Long may it continue. Terry
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I've been watching this post "from a distance" ...not really willing or able to join in constructively. For my posts I use an old, cheap camera that is not always in focus, I have neither the time or expertise to fit text between photos. Flyboy Jim's point 4 is a great reason to post......it makes me create a record of my shed activity. Something I would not do without the forum. It does ME good to review my fumblings . If nobody watches so be it, but the view count tells me some do. I have also received lots of good advice from several members and I also enjoy looking at other folks methods and machines / shops, etc. This is a great forum and my thanks go to the Admins. Long may it continue. Terry
I agree on having the record of how I did things, quite a few times have had to look back and see how I did it before. Lots of great techniques shown on these forums.
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Having now read this thread all the way through - had to catch up on a few days worth of comments - I thought that as I very probably fall very firmly into the 'lurker' or 'observer' category I ought to at least make an effort to comment.
Actually, of the two terms I prefer to be known as an 'observer' rather than a 'lurker'; in England a lurker could have a somewhat unsavory connotation and nobody wants that!
Zee - your major post was spot-on, agree with everything you wrote.
I have been a member on here for a number of years but have started very few threads; I mainly confine myself to reading threads and making the odd comments if I feel I have anything relevant to say that could help the thread or interest anyone. That is not to say I am not interested in the posts here or feel inadequate, though often my lack of experience would indicate inadequacy. Although I have been in engineering since the 1960's, and was taught how to use a lathe and a mill amongst all the other workshop hand and machine tools in my initial training, it was only when I retired and set up my own workshop that I realised how limited my experience was in workshop terms - work holding set-ups for example were a whole new learning curve. To that end the threads on here on engine or whatever builds with details of how things were held and machined have greatly helped me gain experience and know-how, for which I am deeply grateful. I love photos of how things were held and machined, they are often more value to me than the end product!
Perhaps I have not put any build threads on here because I feared that others may tut tut at my inexperienced way of doing things and general machining ham-handedness, or that the long time between posts - I am a very slow worker and most bits need making at least twice if not more times - would put people off. I must try a build thread and see what reaction I get!
However, I do value this forum above most if not all others as I love the lay-out and clarity of the posts, the build threads are always interesting ( or the ones I like are), and the folk on here are usually very helpful and friendly, none of the bitchiness and backbiting you can get on other forums. People seem to want the help people on here, some people on other forums seem to just want to score points and say how clever they are.
Yes, maybe some way of showing how much you are enjoying and appreciate a thread would be useful, but I can quite see why a 'like' button would be such a bad idea, but neither do I want to mindlessly add a "good work" comment just to bump the figures up; sometimes I am too busy also to add comment, sometimes by the time I read a thread the moment to comment on a bit well done that has deeply impressed or made an impact has passed, which is perhaps another reason why some comments are not made by others as well as by me. Sometimes several days pass between my visits to the forum, hence the moments passing; sometimes I pick up on a long thread long after it has started and play catch up but the moment to comment on a particular post has long gone.
I think this forum is great - I would not like to see it changed. I will try and pay more attention to it and perhaps post more comments in the future!
Chris
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This may be an old topic but the trend continues. :ThumbsDown: :ThumbsDown:
There is still a noticeable reduction in the number of posts each day and consequently a lack of response to both old and new posts.
I am sure more response would encourage more members to make an extra effort to post information about their creations. Members must be asking themselves, is it realy worth the effort to make a post. It's a chicken and egg situation. Lack of response discourages members from bothering to prepare and post stuff. Conversely, lack of posts can only result in a lack of response.
It's not difficult to see that a high proportion of visits each day are made by guests, who cannot respond to what they see.
Is there not some way we could try, that would let both members and guests respond? Yes, I know the argument that visitors can become members, if they so wish: and an open house would make more work for the mods.
Any ideas ? :thinking:
Mike
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Making attachments visible to guests may help as it is difficult for them to follow a thread if they can't see half of what's there and we all know a "thread is useless without pictures". If they can actually see what is being talked about they may join up and post.
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Is there not some way we could try, that would let both members and guests respond? Yes, I know the argument that visitors can become members, if they so wish: and an open house would make more work for the mods.
No.
If anyone could post we would be inundated with Spam and you would not be able to see/post anything. The forum Spam blocks prevent literally thousands of attempted accesses from known spammers every day.
Making attachments visible to guests may help as it is difficult for them to follow a thread if they can't see half of what's there and we all know a "thread is useless without pictures". If they can actually see what is being talked about they may join up and post.
On my C-611 thread I spent extra time hosting my photos on our photo posting area so that non members can also see what I was describing. It did not improve the number of responses I got from the members or increase the number of views of the thread.
Jo
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I don't know that making attachments visible will help. I mean there isn't very much response even from existing members - depending on who is posting the thread. I host all my pictures through a service that I actually pay for, so they are visible to all, and go to the effort of posting pictures in line with text to make the posts flow, but on the whole the effort is not very worthwhile. I'm not intending to post any more build logs at this point. Since even a small and simple engine takes me 2-1/2 years to complete, that is perhaps no loss.
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No.
If anyone could post we would be inundated with Spam and you would not be able to see/post anything. The forum Spam blocks prevent literally thousands of attempted accesses from known spammers every day.
Jo
Well that sounds like a very definite "Things ain't gonna change" :ThumbsDown: :ThumbsDown:
Mike
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I think the term "Lack of response" needs to be defined. Let's use my Elmer's Number 43 build thread as an example: https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,6181.0.html
The build thread has 18 pages consisting of my posts and posts of help and encouragement from others (mostly from the same small group of people). I suppose that could be deemed to be a lack of response when the total number of members on this forum are factored in. However.........there's more to this. As of today there has been 46,805 views of my thread. That certainly doesn't seem like a "lack of response to me".
More recently Stuart's PM Research Number 1 thread: https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,8392.0.html has had 21,894 views already. A number that I expect to climb over time.
These numbers and the numbers I see on most build threads tell me that there is plenty of response to our build threads.
Jim
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No.
If anyone could post we would be inundated with Spam and you would not be able to see/post anything. The forum Spam blocks prevent literally thousands of attempted accesses from known spammers every day.
Jo
Well that sounds like a very definite "Things ain't gonna change" :ThumbsDown: :ThumbsDown:
Mike
Yes that is correct. To participate you need to be a member.
If you want to be inundated with explicit porn, scammers trying to rip you off left right and centre, be offered any drugs to purchase or be subjected to other illegal/offending behaviour you need to go elsewhere. For clarity on this (and possibly other matters) yes I am a miserable sod as I will not tolerate such postings here :Director: .
Jo
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I think the term "Lack of response" needs to be defined.
Agree there are different ways of looking at it.
lack of interest would be low views
lack of response would be lack of replies, that could also be sub divided into the "nice job" " great progress" type comments which add little to the content but may encourage the poster to keep on posting in their thread. Then there is response in the way of interaction such as enquiring further about a method shown, asking for more detail or dare I say it offering alternative methods or pointing out an error.
It's not just this forum, ME is much the same where there are not a lot of posts by other in build threads, seems tea room (chatterbox) threads or moaning about the forum/publishers, etc get the most action. Same goes for spam we have to approve first posts but even then it can be hard to tell on some who may sneak a spam link into what at first appears a reasonable post. Luckily most is obvious.
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These numbers and the numbers I see on most build threads tell me that there is plenty of response to our build threads.
Jim
OK that's a fair point. However - it's not very engaging. If all I wanted was number of views, I could set up a youtube channel VLOG or something. I have always hoped for a bit more discussion, but in reality I think the time of forums is dwindling away. That kind of conversation takes too much time, and the population on the whole prefers the quick click of the "like" button so they don't have to actually make any effort. I'd rather not go that route either. To sustain forum board conversation requires significant membership and we just don't have it.
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No.
If anyone could post we would be inundated with Spam and you would not be able to see/post anything. The forum Spam blocks prevent literally thousands of attempted accesses from known spammers every day.
Jo
Well that sounds like a very definite "Things ain't gonna change" :ThumbsDown: :ThumbsDown:
Mike
Yes that is correct. To participate you need to be a member.
If you want to be inundated with explicit porn, scammers trying to rip you off left right and centre, be offered any drugs to purchase or be subjected to other illegal/offending behaviour you need to go elsewhere. For clarity on this (and possibly other matters) yes I am a miserable sod as I will not tolerate such postings here :Director: .
Jo
Thanks for the clarification Jo,
I had not intended to upset you, but obviously I have. For which I apologise.
Clearly it's a much harder job to keep the forum free from the 'bad' guys than I realised. You do that very well, and we all thank you for doing that.
Mike
Mike
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Having administered and moderated a forum before I can certainly attest to the amount of spam attacks. The team I administered with had to implement quite silly amounts of regulations to keep spammers at bay. Forums with a "classifieds" area seem to have an extra level of difficulty. Luckily the registration software screens out a lot, but unfortunately it does rule out free for all access.
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Well…it is time that I, as a fairly new member of this forum, respond to this thread. I will first say that each morning, I get up, have coffee and check this forum to see what is posted. In fact I check in here two to three times per day to stay updated on each posters progress. Everyone here have enlightened my knowledge and encouraged me to expand my skills. That in itself is worth a lot to me. Although I have not been able to take the time to perform an engine build due to present commitments, (i.e. taking care of 90 year old parents, keeping a small hay farm and equipment running, and building or rebuilding small two-stroke commercial engines for the racers in the USA and other countries), I certainly appreciate everyone’s shared personal skills and knowledge. Not to mention the professionalism in interacting with each other.
One thing I have been able to make, as shown on this forum, is a Dave Otto inspired vise stop. Sometime in the future I will post the better photos I took of that. That has saved me a bunch of time in my work for others.
The main posters here like Vixen, Ms. Jo, Simplyloco, JasonB, Dave Otto, and Cruby (I know there are others so please don’t be offended) simply blow me away with your skills. I have spent a lot of time in my profession, inside machine shops with tool makers and machinists, which are world class in their jobs. This is where I initially learned some skills and have been able to use them in everyday life. Some of you here are world class as well. With all this said, I would encourage all posters to keep on keeping on. I am certain there are other individuals that are members of this site that read and reread postings daily and just cannot add comment to your posts other than a “Big Thumbs UP”. By the way….it is not lurking… it is learning and you are the teachers!
Best regards to all…..Rick
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I generally enjoy snooping around at peoples posts, I tend to do it often as I might learn something. I also like to get responses to what I post on. Ideas and comments from the professionals is always helpful! But generally it doesn't cross my mind to post a comment on someone's build.
When I do think about commenting, I am at a loss of words as there are many very skilled builds going on. I have always tried refraining from posting very short posts.
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Oh this is an (internal in my head) process about if I should make a comment along the line Jason mentions
- and I do make those from time to time on threads I feel are not getting enough response .... or should I avoid adding too much fluff :thinking:
I rarely ask questions, unless I need some clarification .... but I admit that I probably would ask more if it was face to face conversation - and sometimes people usually do this to show interest -> so I probably should ask more ....
Per
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Well…it is time that I, as a fairly new member of this forum, respond to this thread.
SNIP
I am certain there are other individuals that are members of this site that read and reread postings daily and just cannot add comment to your posts other than a “Big Thumbs UP”. By the way….it is not lurking… it is learning and you are the teachers!
Best regards to all…..Rick
Rick
My motivation to post on forums is twofold:
1... To show off a bit
2... To pass on the knowledge to those who appreciate the gesture and who will use it to their advantage.
I'm glad to be of assistance and thanks for the great compliment.
John
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It takes significant effort to create a useful build post with photos and commentary, ideally highlighting issues, and solutions, as well as complete foul ups to be avoided. I am on three forums, including this one. Many months have passed since I last posted in my build diary here and I have been contemplating closing the thread. There has been little response, other than from some trusty stalwarts. I am aware that I have a well equipped workshop, so many of the setups shown may not be appropriate, as has been forcefully pointed out on another forum. On that forum I gave up posting work in progress some while back due to lack of response. In addition my models are rather bigger than average requiring larger, mostly ex-industrial, machinery.
Another issue is that I'm interested in engineering; machining while satisfying is simply a means of producing parts - not the be all and end all.
I look at this forum once a day at breakfast time. While I don't think it's applicable to this forum one reason I've reduced posting on the other modelling forum is an influx of new members who are derogatory about, and dismissive of, existing members from the start. I can't be bothered with people like that.
Time to go. I'm one of the tug pilots in the competition at the local gliding club. Not a great day weatherwise, but I need to be ready as and when the competition director decides to launch the sheep competition grid!
Andrew
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And in addition "Threads" that go on for 9 pages or more do nothing to add the likability of forum. :-(
...lew...
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And in addition "Threads" that go on for 9 pages or more do nothing to add the likability of forum. :-(
...lew...
Please explain, because this makes no since to me?
Dave
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Nor to me, Lew and Dave, just FYI. Lew can you please explain your objections to longer threads?
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And in addition "Threads" that go on for 9 pages or more do nothing to add the likability of forum. :-(
...lew...
My 'Yet Another Stuart Major Beam Engine' thread comprises 11 pages so far and it has received over 9500 views. Which bits do you not like?
John
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Big projects, or projects like mine with many do-overs need many pages. So I don’t see an issue with that aspect.
Unless it was a sideways comment at this thread perhaps?
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There are lots of big builds (some are mine) that span years of work, and are posted as they go, so by neccessity they span lots of pages. If I was posting about the build only after the build was done, it would of course be a lot shorter. But, that kind of detail daily posting brings out a lot more techniques and methods too - I've learned a lot from following other's long builds!
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Unless it was a sideways comment at this thread perhaps?
As this is the 9th page of this thread I think Stuart is correct about the remark.
Any step by step build will most likely take more than 9 pages.
Cheers Dan
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I am active on here to post what I am doing and learning while learning from what others are posting, isn't that what forums are about?
I have postings with no responses and hundreds of views. I have postings with hundreds of responses and 10's of thousands of views. That's life for me, hopefully for others :wine1:
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I agree wholeheartedly with Crueby, the long builds are generally where one learns of things that are beyond ordinary experience and revealed by innovative and creative application of techniques. The little gems and revelations that bring on the 'why didn't I think of that' or 'wow, that's how they did it' moments. Other threads often amount to interesting entertainment or displays of peoples efforts which play their part in making for an attractive and engaging site.
Diversity and depth, short and long, are not mutually exclusive and are, in the end, the means by which an activity grows and survives. I trust there will always remain plenty of room for all. Regards, Paul Gough.
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The long intricate builds are the most fun. That said, I get a lot of pleasure out of a lot of short threads. Sometimes just a tip or trick. Even when someone makes a good score at an auction or something. I'd like to see some "what did you do in your shop today" or "what's your latest hand tool acquisition" threads - a bit like JasonB has on the Model Engineering forum. Simple and quick fun. I'd start them but I kind of believe if I do they'll go nowhere.
I think forums in general are not so active these days. I was looking at swharts build of a PMR #4 today, doing some research for some approaches for my next engine, it's from about 2015 I think. At that time there were just a lot more members who would chime in - the thread just had more engagement than we see today. This is true elsewhere too.
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The long intricate builds are the most fun. That said, I get a lot of pleasure out of a lot of short threads. Sometimes just a tip or trick. Even when someone makes a good score at an auction or something.
I think forums in general are not so active these days. I was looking at swharts build of a PMR #4 today, doing some research for some approaches for my next engine, it's from about 2015 I think. At that time there were just a lot more members who would chime in - the thread just had more engagement than we see today. This is true elsewhere too.
I agree, we are seeing the same on our RC boat group.
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Oh Please do NOT stop the long posts here ...!
I kind of understand if they only contain pictures (though I will not blame those who have problems with English, and therefor uses a lot less words) - but if there is a reasonable amount of explanations with the pictures, I do not see the problem .... and including questions, cockups etc. usually gives even better reads (learning).
I do understand the amount of work it takes to post builds - so I can see why some will not continue to make that effort - but I'm happy and grateful for those who do :cheers:
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Ya know guys....and gals....
Sometimes life just gets in the way of our long standing hobbies and interests! Illness, deaths, changes in lifes situations and fortunes, it all happens
I am one of the more prolific posters if my post number means anything...lately, well sick kids take precedence...and well that's been going on in my house for some time now....twice over the last 5 years with my daughter...the second time far worse than the first.
Sorry.....it can't be helped. I'm getting back into it, and thats great....I do look forward to the nuts and bolts of the posts. I learn a lot from those.
Keep posting....Everyone's life gets back to normal eventually.
Dave
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Agreed. Things change for people over time. Life has ebbs and flows. People come into the forum and are active for a time, then less, then more, then less... for many reasons.
I'm one of those 'long thread posters' because I don't work quickly and I don't always have a lot of time to spend in the shop. I post my progress in increments after I do the work and sometimes it's not much. And I don't expect responses to every post. Sometimes there are responses and sometimes not. For me though, when I ask a question or need help getting out of a bind I have always received many responses from people providing helpful suggestions. And I've learned a ton. Most of what I know about machining I've learned from people on this forum. So for me, the frequent mini-posts have been very helpful. And hopefully, the instruction and input I get from the more experienced forum members are helpful to other people like me who are learning.
I like that this forum has both long build threads and short ones, and short "I just got this cool gadget" or "I just tried that new technique" type posts. I think we have that. Maybe we could have more. I'd be happy to see people post more of that kind of thing too!
Kim
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Hi all!
I am guilty of not posting the great job to everyone that is showing a build thread, but I am looking and very much enjoying them.
I often think of replying with the popcorn watching :popcorn: :popcorn: but just never do it. Guess I'm shy.
I am a member of other forums that have a thumbs up button. (Cloudynights.com) I don't even know who started this forum, not sure who to ask....Is there a way to click on a thumbs up or a popcorn emoji right inside someones thread?? I would click that every time to let them know I think that's awesome, and I'm following along! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Hate for this forum to go away, I have big plans in my retirement years and this forum seems a great place to share and learn new ideas.
Thanks
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If you want to be inundated with explicit porn, scammers trying to rip you off left right and centre, be offered any drugs to purchase or be subjected to other illegal/offending behaviour you need to go elsewhere. For clarity on this (and possibly other matters) yes I am a miserable sod as I will not tolerate such postings here :Director: .
Jo
My thanks, Jo.
I am on the US(less) "Do not call list" on both my phones and continually get spam calls; used to be from people but now are from robots. Almost all of them use spoofed phone numbers.
On my one e-Mail account I seem to get nearly 200 calls a day. On a good day, two or three may be mail that I actually want.
I look at Facebook perhaps every week or two; mostly to make sure that no family or friends have died lately. I can hardly stand the lynch mob mentality of almost everyone (including family and friends) there.
The great thing about this forum is the information, inspiration, and even humor that it lets us share.
My favorite posts here are the ones from which I learn. These range from tricky setups to not obvious orders of operation that make it possible to make apparently impossible parts to mistakes that teach me what not to do without costing me an eye or a hand.
I also love to read those posts that mix wit in with a project, or are oddball compared to the majority, like Zee's spinning wheel, or your needlepoint. Sometimes I just need to get out of a rut and those help.
If the price of the brown stuff goes down near where it used to be, I'll be able to build some cabinets and put my garage shop back together. Then maybe I'll be able to build another of Elmer's pieces.
If I read a build post that looks good (as almost all do,) I’ll say so if no one has. Usually though several people have already commented and unless there is something unique to add I will save other reader’s time by staying silent.
By the way, I don't recall EVER posting anywhere without rereading what I have written. If it seems unclear, or not what I intended, (or too inane) I'll edit/rewrite my words. If it's off enough, I'll just delete it rather than sending it.