Author Topic: Chris's Diesbar Engine Build  (Read 13838 times)

Offline crueby

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Chris's Diesbar Engine Build
« on: May 18, 2026, 04:01:16 pm »
Its time to start in on building the Diesbar paddle steamer engine!   :cartwheel:  I've been wanting to do this engine for quite a while, it has a very interesting motion and mechanism. The engine was designed/built by John Penn & Sons in 1841. It was later moved into the Diesbar in 1884, and is still running in that ship today on the River Elbe in Germany. The engine is an oscillating type, which allows it to be quite small and low to keep the weight lower in the hull. The crankshaft is at the top, and is directly connected to the 12.5 foot paddle wheels on either side of the hull at up to 38 RPM. It has a bore and stroke of 24.5" x 27".

The valve gear that Penn designed is quite interesting, with a sliding arch link in the middle that looks like a Stephenson linkage, but it is there to transmit the up/down motion from the eccentric to and arm running around the side of the cylinder to the steam chest, with one end of that arm sliding in the slot in the linkage. That way the oscillating motion of the cylinder does not effect the valve motion at all. For reversing, the eccentric is a slip type disc, it can rotate partially on the crankshaft with stop blocks at either end of its travel - the eccentric is rotated one way for forward, the other way for reverse. Unlike some other slip-eccentric engines, there is no direct control of rotating the eccentric. Instead, the engineer can uncouple the linkage from the eccentric strap arm, and move the valve himself. There is also a throttle valve for each cylinder. That way, the engineer can uncouple the links, move one or the other as needed to start the cylinder in the opposite direction, and open one or both throttles to start the engine. As it starts to rotate, the stop block for the other direction will come around and push on a pin on the eccentric, so that it now rotates with the crankshaft in its new position. The valve links are sprung back into the holders on the eccentric straps, and the engine continues in the new direction normally. There are what look like the leaf springs from a car that pull on the linkages to keep them in the holders, unless the engineer pulls them out. Quite a clever system, but it takes some real skill by the engineer to know which way to move which link to start the engine in the new direction!
This excellent video from Youtube shows the ship and the engine being run:
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDp8T91iIKE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDp8T91iIKE</a>
With a lot of help and pictures from Michael on this forum, and reviews by one of the workers on the ship that he knows, I was able to draw up the engine in CAD.

There is a book on building the engine written some years ago, but that version is much simplified - I wanted to do a model that was as true as I could make it to the real engine. Hopefully this model lives up to that standard. I drew the engine at full size, then made a scaled down copy of it so that the cylinder bores were 2", which keeps all the parts in a size I can make on my lathe/mill. Also it worked out such that the leftover right angle pieces of brass I have from building the Ohio crane model will work for the ange sections on the upper framework. Michael also got me plans for the paddlewheel, I would like to make one or both of those, will tackle that after the engine.

This morning, I got started cutting metal. The cylinder parts are being made from sections of a 2-3/4" brass round bar, plus a piece of 7/8" bar for the pivot trunnions (which also are the steam/exhaust passages).

The passages go from the trunnions, and around through the inside of the thicker rings on the outside of the cylinder to the steam chest. On the real engine these passages were cast in place in the cylinders. For the model, I am going to make the center rings and trunnions as subassemblies, then slide them onto the cylinders from the lower end. It is critical that the trunnions are in line with each other on either side of the cylinder, or it will not rotate freely. So, I will take the medium-length rods shown in the previous picture, drill/bore through the sides for the trunnions, and silver solder the trunnions to the rings. Then I can mill in the passages, with steps either side for covers to seal up the passages again. Then will bore out the center of the rings/trunnion assemblies, and slide them onto the cylinders (after the cylinders are turned). The other thinner discs in the picture will be the top/bottom covers on the cylinders. The full size engine has the cylinders cast/bored as blind holes, I will through-bore and cap the bottom of the cylinders to get the same look.  Its a lot of steps, hard to describe it all but it will be clearer as I proceed.

So, on to the parts! First steps were to clean up the sawn ends of all the bars. The top/bottom covers were easy, held in the 3-jaw chuck with the jaws reversed. Then moved on to the medium length bars. Perfect chance to try out the new steady rest I made the other day from a piece of aluminum pipe section and some roller blade ball bearings. Given that the reversed chuck jaws are fairly shallow, this gave enough stability to be able to face the ends without worrying about the bar being dislodged and falling out.

The sawn ends are not perfectly square, so with the bar straight in the chuck one or two jaws might have the bar fully seated,

while at least one has a gap:

As you can see, not a lot of engagement for several pounds of bar hanging out! With the steady rest in place, I was able to adjust the arms till the bar ran true and all three bearings were in contact for the full revolution. I adjusted the arms initially with them right up near the chuck, then moved the rest out to be near the outer end of the bar.

After trimming both ends of the shorter bars, I started in on the longer ones for the cylinders, with the rest moved out farther. The two ends of each were trimmed true and to length,

then center drilled so I can take the rest off and switch to supporting it with a live center, to turn down the outsides of the bar ater.


The steady rest is working very well, well worth the time to make it! Next I need to turn the trunnions to size/shape, with the flanges at the ends and the ends bored out - there will be an o-ring fitting that goes inside the trunnion ends to connect to the other piping. Then I'll set up to drill through the sides of the ring blocks to take the trunnions, and then be ready for silver soldering.
 :cheers:

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Diesbar Engine Build
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2026, 04:03:23 pm »
Oh, and that youtube vide of the Diesbar has two audio tracks, one German and one English. You can switch by clicking on the settings icon in the upper right as the video is playing. Not my video - I have not made it over to Germany yet!

Offline cnr6400

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Re: Chris's Diesbar Engine Build
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2026, 05:15:10 pm »
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Great to see your new thread Chris! cyl blank getting started and the steady rest looks great. I hope you have Syl Linder and Stu Pervisor "accidentally" locked in the paint cabinet... :Lol:

I'll get the screamin jimmy dump truck on its way to you with another 8 tons of premium white popcorn. The exhaust stack has been "fixed" but the blower drive gears are yelling - audible now from 9 miles out... you'll hear it when it's too late nearby!  :Lol:
"I've cut that stock three times, and it's still too short!"

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Diesbar Engine Build
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2026, 06:03:53 pm »
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Great to see your new thread Chris! cyl blank getting started and the steady rest looks great. I hope you have Syl Linder and Stu Pervisor "accidentally" locked in the paint cabinet... :Lol:

I'll get the screamin jimmy dump truck on its way to you with another 8 tons of premium white popcorn. The exhaust stack has been "fixed" but the blower drive gears are yelling - audible now from 9 miles out... you'll hear it when it's too late nearby!  :Lol:
I could hear them just now, then squealing tires as they detoured into the microbrewery up the road...   :shrug:


 :cheers:

Offline Michael S.

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Re: Chris's Diesbar Engine Build
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2026, 06:58:03 pm »
Excellent—it’s getting started! I’m really curious to see how the engine takes shape under your hands. I’ve actually seen a steam engine in operation once before, and watching all those oscillating rods was quite confusing. The reverse gear remains baffling even after looking at it a third time. Have fun building the engine! There’s already a book out there for a model of this engine, of course, but you could always write a new one yourself! 😃

Best regards, Michael

Online Kim

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Re: Chris's Diesbar Engine Build
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2026, 06:58:55 pm »
What fun!  This will be yet another great project to follow from you, and you're off to a good start!  :popcorn: :popcorn:

Didn't take you long to get your new steady rest dirty, did it!  :Lol:

Kim

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Diesbar Engine Build
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2026, 08:09:59 pm »
Thanks guys!
Kim, yeah, once it got above 90 degrees outside today it was easy to go into the inside shop and play!

Michael,  I agree on the controls for this engine. It took me a long time to figure them out, and using the pictures you sent me from the worker on the ship plus the videos like the one I posted the link for, I finally figured it out. I'll try and put in more detail when I get to that stage of the build. The Penn linkage on this engine is just like the one on the steamship Great Eastern that John Scott Russell built for Isambard Kingdom Brunel in the 1850s, except that engine used a standard Stephenson linkage above the sliding link - probably mainly since there are 4 cylinders arranged in an inverted V shape, so it would have been very difficult to do the disconnection like the Diesbar engine does. The Stephenson linkage would have taken up too much room on the Diesbar engine.

Offline kvom

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Re: Chris's Diesbar Engine Build
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2026, 04:39:40 am »
This one might take a while. 

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Diesbar Engine Build
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2026, 01:32:26 pm »
This one might take a while.
I hope so!   :cheers:

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Diesbar Engine Build
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2026, 04:01:01 pm »
Today I started in on shaping the center ring blocks. Went through a couple ideas on how to hold/align then for cross drilling, then went back to a way that I've used before on rectangular blocks - using the sides of the jaws on the 4-jaw to clamp it in place. A little trial and error to get it centered, tightened it down, and it worked great. Drilled a starter hole through, then a smaller boring bar bnefore a larger one whicvh didn't chatter as much once the hole was large enough. The holes go all the way through the block, and will accept the trunnion rods once they are made.

Back to the flat setup with the steady rest, and bored out the centers part of the way to finish size. This is so there is a lot less mass to have to heat up to silver solder in the trunnions. I'll have to go back and trim the trunnions after soldering, but its still worth it.

Got most of the way through the first block when the old belt on the spindle gave up. Fortunately I have several spares, since this happens every once in a while. These belts are the same ones used on sewing machines, so they are easy to get. This batch, it was actually cheaper to order them from England even with shipping. Go figure. LOTS cheaper than ordering the exact same belt number from Sherline as a spare. Price of one from them got me 6 from another seller. In the lower right you can see where a tooth broke off - I wonder if that jammed in the pulley and the shock snapped the belt? They are polyurethane belts with a bit of cord embedded around the outside.

Here are both blocks with the centers bored out, ready to turn the trunnions down...


Offline Michael S.

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Re: Chris's Diesbar Engine Build
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2026, 06:36:08 pm »
That looks like a clever cylinder arrangement! I was just wondering how you were going to do it.

Michael

Offline steam guy willy

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Re: Chris's Diesbar Engine Build
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2026, 08:47:24 pm »
Hi Great to see this new engine build  :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:  Did they use the river water for the initial firing up all those years ago ..and then relied on the condensate afterwards  ??  It is a good film and the engine driver gets a free sauna occasionally  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Willy

Offline Michael S.

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Re: Chris's Diesbar Engine Build
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2026, 09:01:43 pm »
Hi Willy,

On board, there is a cistern where condensate and river water collect. This water is then used to supply the boiler. It is the last steamboat still fired by coal. The boiler is of the old "locomotive-type" design. However, I assume there is an oil separator to remove the steam oil.

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Diesbar Engine Build
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2026, 09:52:18 pm »
Hi Michael,
Do you have a diagram showing the layout of the engineering deck on the ship, showing positions of the boiler, engine, etc?
Chris

Offline PJPickard

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Re: Chris's Diesbar Engine Build
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2026, 11:36:55 pm »
that is a neat engine! And I suspect I will be marveling how quickly it is completed! Chris I know this has been mentioned by you, probably many times, but what solid modeling program are you using?

 

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