Model Engine Maker

Engines => From Plans => Topic started by: fumopuc on October 11, 2017, 02:01:34 PM

Title: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on October 11, 2017, 02:01:34 PM
I have found a new exercise, for playing around with Fusion 360.
The design copy process is getting more and more fluid and instead of watching TV in the evening I do some CAD work.

It is really fun to see the process.My only future problem will be, how to get the elves from Chris into the south of Germany ?And If they are here, how keep them for one or two years ?

mU-sZDXz-Ng
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: crueby on October 11, 2017, 02:25:54 PM
That animation is looking great - something I have only dabbled with in Fusion so far, need to learn more of it. For my next project, was wondering if its possible to animate/joint chain links going around drums and rollers to move parts? Probably can, but it would take a lot of links...

As for the shop elves, maybe we can work out an exchange program, send a few at a time, have each set bring back some of that great German beer!

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on October 11, 2017, 06:22:50 PM
Hi Chris, until today I have not seen a Fusion Tutorial, but I have seen one from Inventor.
https://youtu.be/5vp-3hqR_T4 (https://youtu.be/5vp-3hqR_T4)

I am sure it will work in Fusion also.
Beer supply should not be the problem.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: crueby on October 11, 2017, 08:53:09 PM
Hi Chris, until today I have not seen a Fusion Tutorial, but I have seen one from Inventor.
https://youtu.be/5vp-3hqR_T4 (https://youtu.be/5vp-3hqR_T4)

I am sure it will work in Fusion also.
Beer supply should not be the problem.
Looks promising, will give it a try. Thanks!
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on October 29, 2017, 07:33:22 PM
The model of this engine, with all the necessary  metric modifications, is nearly finished now.
This Fusion 360 is a great and useful toy, I love it.
But now its time to make swarf again, all the current project are waiting for further action.
 
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Dave Otto on October 30, 2017, 12:03:13 AM
Looks great Achim!

It will be fun to watch this one progress.

Dave
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on October 30, 2017, 07:18:58 PM
Looks great Achim!

It will be fun to watch this one progress.

Dave




Yes Dave, this would be a very nice project, but it will take some time to start it. Gears, valve springs and piston rings  are in the box already, but the time is missing and negotiations about postponed retirement are ongoing.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on December 25, 2018, 03:40:42 PM
Hi everybody,
not 2019 yet, but some more and intensive work preparation has started now.
I have learned the minimal usage of the Fusion360 CAM module a bit more and so my first programm are prepared for the CNC milling in the brass plates.
The brass plates are ordered and I am waiting for the delievry.
So some swarf will be shown, hopefully in a couple of days.
Until now I have made only some sample cuttings to confirm the settings with the brass and my available cutters.
To be sure that everything will work on my mini mill, I checked the CNC program already with a tooth stick in the collet and a "paper work piece" on the mill table.
It is confirmed now, that the tool-paths are in the available range of my mill. Also the work holding with its hight is confirmed.
Here the simulation of one side plate machining operation.
PxSXzEa3jy0Some funny pictures of the mill table with the dummy part and the dummy cutter.
Waiting for the postman now.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: b.lindsey on December 25, 2018, 04:50:42 PM
Getting close to some real swarf Achim. Hope the postman doesn't keep you waiting too long.

Bill
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 05, 2019, 07:55:10 PM
Hi everybody,
we have got nearly 50 cm of fresh and wet snow but also a parcel with some brass plates in it.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on January 05, 2019, 09:11:18 PM
That is fast progress Achim, and I thought that this engine was only a CAD project, but we will see it running in the future  :ThumbsUp:

 :cheers:     :popcorn:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 06, 2019, 06:39:30 AM
......., but we will see it running in the future  :ThumbsUp:

 :cheers:     :popcorn:


Hopefully !
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on January 06, 2019, 08:29:22 AM
That's off to a good start  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:

How do you intend to set the valve clearances, eccentric bushes?

Will you solder (soft/hard) the crankcase?
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 06, 2019, 09:03:50 AM
That's off to a good start  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :wine1:

How do you intend to set the valve clearances, eccentric bushes?

Will you solder (soft/hard) the crankcase?


Hi Roger,
currently no idea about the setting of the valve clearance, that is so far away for me at the moment.


Hard (silver) soldering is the task. I have bought some special solder with 590°C to 620°C degrees melting point and a small Chinese outdoor camping gas cooker for the preheating.
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Outdoor-Camping-Gaskocher-Tragbar-Butan-Gasherd-Hockerkocher-Campingkocher-3500W/392200008976?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 06, 2019, 10:58:34 AM
Still having massive problems with the swarfless machining process as it will be used in Boise, Idaho, but happy with the result.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 06, 2019, 03:03:44 PM
My computer and the mill has been busy during the afternoon also.
3 of the 5 door frames are also done already.
 
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on January 06, 2019, 04:17:38 PM
That's a lot of machining  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: Are you saving the swarf to sell?   :stir:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 15, 2019, 06:45:37 PM
That's a lot of machining  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: Are you saving the swarf to sell?   :stir:


Hi Roger,
I would say still not enough swarf to get  it sold.




In our national forum we do have a long term thread about Fusion360.
For this thread I have made 2 videos which does show the simulation and also the real machining of one door frame of this engine build.
May be somebody is interested to see it, I have tried to keep the machining video short by a lot of cuts and focusing of only a part of each operation.
It starts with the measurement of the Z zero of the brass plate and also shows the tool changes.
No music, the original sound is also available.


First the simulation created by the CAM module of Fusion360
fWYIPYvtmWE

And second the machining.


a-2dBqdZAWI



Attached also some pictures of the current status of the BME crank case.
In one of the holes I have lost a 1,5mm drill bit,  so I had the remove it by grinding this area, that is not a big issue because of a later final machining at this part of the crank case will  done.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on January 18, 2019, 05:28:09 PM
More progress  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: Was the hole that 'failed' for lubrication?
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Don1966 on January 19, 2019, 01:28:50 AM
Looks great Achim looking forward to the build and brass oh you know ........I..........like........  :Love:



 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 21, 2019, 07:27:22 PM
More progress  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: Was the hole that 'failed' for lubrication?
Hi Roger the purpose of these 2 mm holes are more simple.
They are only for the fixation of the entire building for the soldering process.
But at this place with the shown mishap, not necessary, nothing to fix there.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 21, 2019, 07:31:48 PM
Looks great Achim looking forward to the build and brass oh you know ........I..........like........  :Love:



 :cheers:
Don




Hi Don, good to know that you are still watching the European activities.
Enjoy the brass design as long as you can, but finally it will disappear under a coat of paint or powder coating, sorry for that.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 21, 2019, 07:45:40 PM
Hi everybody, a new experiment was done last weekend.
Milling a 197 x 98 x 10 mm aluminum plate without the usual fixture to the mill table.
The plate was fixed by some tape to a 20 mm victim plate ( is this the correct English expression ?)

A complete CAM program (G-Code) was created by Fusion360 for the whole job.
At the end I was happy about the result, even when it has been interrupted by a broken 3 mm flat end mill.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: crueby on January 21, 2019, 08:16:40 PM
Tooling plate?
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: gbritnell on January 21, 2019, 08:22:55 PM
I think the terminology you were looking for was 'sacrificial plate' because it gets tool marks on it so it's sacrificed.
gbritnell
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 21, 2019, 09:03:36 PM
Thanks George, that's the word I was looking for. I think Google translater has given me not what I have expected.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 31, 2019, 04:44:33 PM
There was a bigger adventure to get the plate solved from the sacrificial plate.
I try to describe the phrase "a pain in the a....." here in a polite way.

That was clearly my fault, because I have used to much tape and to much surface.
I had to use a torch and than the heat of nearly 90° C in the plate and a piece of hard wood and a hammer did the job.
Next to do, some milled holes at the other side of the plate and the small door on side of the crank case was also made in meantime.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: crueby on January 31, 2019, 05:52:40 PM
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 02, 2019, 04:39:11 PM
Some more doors are made.
Here the collection of frames and doors so far.


Chris, thanks for watching.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 02, 2019, 04:40:17 PM
.. and some more pictures.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Dave Otto on February 02, 2019, 07:46:23 PM
Nice progress and great looking parts Achim!
I haven't commented on the last couple of updated by I have been following along.

Dave
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on February 02, 2019, 08:26:33 PM
You really has been busy, making parts for this project  :ThumbsUp:

Oh .... and Chis haven't been the only (quiet follower)  :cheers:   :popcorn:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Kim on February 02, 2019, 09:04:07 PM
Nope, there's been a lot of us quite followers, enjoying the show!  :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Kim
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: vcutajar on February 02, 2019, 09:29:57 PM
Enjoying seeing your Fusion 360 and CNC videos.  Keep it up.

Vince
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Steamer5 on February 03, 2019, 06:50:45 AM
Hi Achim,
 Just caught up. Nice work, enjoying the videos!

Cheers Kerrin
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 03, 2019, 07:45:10 AM
Hi Dave, Per, Kim, Vince and Kerrin,
good to know that you all are still following my learning curve.
Thanks for watching.


Next to do, to clean the shop a bit, lots of aluminum swarf all over and to finish the the top plate.
I am doing some more thinking about the hard soldering job already.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on February 03, 2019, 07:59:46 AM
Looking good  :praise2: Those doors will certainly put your CNC gasket cutting skills to good use  :)
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 03, 2019, 08:21:11 AM
Hi Roger,
I have had some thought about gaskets already, but to be honest, there will be nothing real to seal against.
Optical wise, may be a 0,1 mm gasket in the split line will be nice, but that will be a job for the plotter than, some long time in future.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 03, 2019, 07:22:59 PM
Hi everybody,
some conventional milling  again.
The top plate, with its 3° taper each side, is now finished also .
Now is only the reinforcement of the lower frame missing.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Don1966 on February 07, 2019, 09:05:26 PM
Still with you Achim looking good!..... :ThumbsUp:



 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: crueby on February 07, 2019, 09:11:31 PM
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 12, 2019, 06:40:04 PM
Don and Chris, thank you.


During the last weekend I have done the first soldering attempt of the crank case.
The result is not perfect so far, in my eyes, but also not so bad at all.
A lot of heat was necessary to get it done.
My used silver solder has had a melting temperature between 590°C and 640°C.
To get some kind of basic heat, a cheap Chinese outdoor cocker was my selected tool to help.
Unfortunately these guys in Asia didn´t know anything about the coming missuses, so I have to report that the integrated Piezo element for the lightening was not able to  resit the heat during the process.


Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 12, 2019, 06:43:21 PM
After cooling down and some cleaning with citrus acid, I have detected three areas which are not in the way I would like to have it.
So I have to attack these a second time.
 
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: crueby on February 12, 2019, 07:40:46 PM
Good result so far, one thing I would do differently is take it all outside! At least open the window right there, dont want to gas yourself with the combustion gasses, or melt/set fire to the cupboards above even. Even with fire brick, a lot of heat goes through them and also up to the ceiling, and carbon monoxide is nothing to mess with. For larger parts, it does take quite a bit more heat from a larger capacity torch, you need to get the parts up to temperature to melt the solder before the flux burns off. If you are going to be doing larger parts, well worth the investment in a larger torch, I love the Sievert ones with changeable tips that attach to the propane tank from an outdoor grill. And 'outdoor' is a key term...
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 12, 2019, 08:40:07 PM
Hi Chris, this corner is prepared for some  soldering jobs. The big window , nearly 2 square meter is 1 meter beside.
The fire extingusher is under the table, right side at the picture and water left side 50 cm.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Don1966 on February 12, 2019, 09:02:33 PM
Nice attempt Achim and Chris is right you need fast concentrated heat especially to get those missed spots to take.

 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Dave Otto on February 13, 2019, 01:03:07 AM
That came out pretty good Achim, I'm sure with just a little more work you will be able to get it finished up to your satisfaction.

Dave
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Rustkolector on February 13, 2019, 03:50:36 AM
Achim,
From your photos the torches you are using look like they use a butane/propane fuel mix which is not hot enough. You need 100% propane fuel and a larger torch as Chris has mentioned. Because brass draws heat away quickly, silver brazing is still difficult on large items if you don't have supplemental heat. One alternative to the latter is to use a proper brazing hearth with adequate heat. It should be constructed of soft insulating firebrick which has a high surface emissivity (emits heat by radiation) and a temperature rating of 1100 C or higher. These bricks are placed under and around the item being brazed and will conserve and radiate much of the heat applied. DO NOT use hard firebrick. It absorbs too much heat. Insulating firebrick is soft and chalky and is easily shaped for all sorts of brazing projects. Another method is to elevate the item being brazed on a piece of heavy gauge loose weave SS wire cloth so heat can be applied from all sides as well as under the item. No matter what the brazing setup, you still need adequate heat to do the job fast enough that the flux is not exhausted.

While it is not always possible, try to apply heat from the side opposite the flux and brazing material. From your photos, I think you can reduce the quantity of your silver brazing wire significantly. When it flows, it can go a long way if the joints are as tight as they should be. The silver braze material will flow to any fluxed surface so keep the flux in and near the joint.

I'm following your build with interest.
Jeff
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: MJM460 on February 13, 2019, 10:30:11 AM
Hi Achim, a pity about that little gas stove.  I have one just like it as far as it is still possible to tell, and it was quite expensive here.  But the good news is that you don’t have to feel guilty about taking parts from it to make your own gas fired burner for your next boiler.

It looks like a case of so near, yet so far on the soldering.  Ah well, if at first you don’t succeed, try, try again!

Looking forward to the next steps, it is a nice looking engine.

 MJM460

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 17, 2019, 03:16:50 PM
Hi everybody, thanks for watching and all the good advices.
In the meantime the job is done and everything is as I would like to have it seen first time already.
Last week, after a couple of days, I have got my second camping outdoor cooker for EUR 16,99 !
So I could attack with double basic heat, which was available already after 10 minutes now.
I have resoldered 5 places in less than 20 Minutes.
Also after some cleaning I could not find any issues.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Don1966 on February 17, 2019, 04:20:27 PM
Awesome Achim glad to hear!..,. :ThumbsUp:


 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: crueby on February 17, 2019, 05:06:27 PM
Excellent! Always goes much better with proper heat.
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: steamer on February 17, 2019, 05:17:30 PM
Good to see Achim!   I always get so stressed out with big SS solder jobs....when your pushing the setup, you never know for sure what's going to happen....

Glad it got done!!!   :praise2: :cartwheel:

Dave
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on February 17, 2019, 05:18:49 PM
Excellent  :praise2:  :praise2:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 17, 2019, 07:59:16 PM
Don, Chris, Dave and Roger, thanks.


In the meantime the little discounter toaster oven had to work very hard.
I took him nearly two hours to get the crank case to over 200° C for the melting of my soft solder paste.
But finally also this job seems to be done.
The door frames are in place now.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Dave Otto on February 17, 2019, 10:32:39 PM
Looks great Achim!

Dave
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 24, 2019, 08:47:43 AM
Hi Dave, thanks.


In the meantime the assembly machining is ongoing.
First set up was made to the reference of the 3 crankcase webs at the bottom.
These should be in good relationship to the temporary clamped bar in the later crank shaft bearing places, crankshaft center.
An adjustment of 0,2 mm in Z has given a good surface at the top of the crankcase.
It was flipped around and I have machined the lower surface to the necessary hight, in relationship to the crankshaft center.
Than flipping it around another time and doing the same with the crankcase top.
Next to do was, the whole story moved to the lathe and machining the side plates to its final dimension, referring to the middle web at the black cross marked point.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on February 24, 2019, 08:52:42 PM
Looks like your build-up crankcase cleans up nicely Achim - must be a relieve to confirm this :cheers:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Dave Otto on February 24, 2019, 11:15:49 PM
Crankcase is looking great Achim.
Nice to see the clean up cuts coming out so well!

Dave
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Art K on February 24, 2019, 11:37:04 PM
Achim,
I just got caught up. Great job doing the silver solder, it does seem like a big job. Great work!
Art
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Don1966 on February 25, 2019, 12:01:37 AM
Awesome work Achim!...  :praise2:

 :popcorn:
Don
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Kim on February 25, 2019, 02:34:26 AM
I always consider the soldering a success after it cleans up and looks good.  And your's looks great!
Kim
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 02, 2019, 08:14:31 PM
Per, Dave Art, Don and Kim thanks for the friendly comments.

The computer was busy again and most of the top is done.
I do love these "adaptive cleaning" in Fusion360 CAM.
Also the deburing, made by the CNC mill, is more and more one of my favorites.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: sco on March 02, 2019, 09:27:43 PM
Achim,

This is a really complex fabrication and you are making it look easy - keep it up!

Simon.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 10, 2019, 03:24:46 PM
Thanks Simon.


Today was the day to make the crankcase bearing places.
I have never used a long boring bar before, so it was time to make some.
Two bars where made, one the conventional way for a 6 mm round HSS bit and one for a Microbore Cartridge, as Jo, Jason and Mike have used/purchased it.
The rough-machining was done with the conventional type.
When the hole was big enough for the Microbore cartridge, I have swapped to the other boring bar and made some experiments to get familiar with it.
Nearly finished with the operation 41,26 mm was measured in the hole, 41,28 mm was the target.
So I felt encouraged to try the 0,02 mm adjustment, which was successful.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Dave Otto on March 10, 2019, 05:13:38 PM
Nice!

Dave
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Kim on March 10, 2019, 05:17:39 PM
Looks like you got it figured, Achim!  That looking really good!
Kim
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Don1966 on March 10, 2019, 06:59:47 PM
Cool setup Achim as long as it gets results. ....... :ThumbsUp:


 :popcorn:
Don
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on March 11, 2019, 12:04:18 PM
Excellent  :praise2: You've got the line boring sorted out  :ThumbsUp: :wine1: I will have to deal with that for the next engine  :thinking:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 14, 2019, 04:10:34 PM
Dave, Kim, Don and Roger, thanks for taking the time to follow my build.


Today some minor progress at the crank case.
The holes in the plates, previously used for the soldering fixation, are closed now and also the space for the lower bevel gears are made now.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 28, 2019, 12:47:32 PM
Hi everybody, the center door of the engine, with its special shape to hide the angle drive has given me the inspiration to try my very first real 3d machining with Fusion360.
In the drawings of Doug there is brass used for the doors and the gear cover is a soldered fabrication work.
My door is made by aluminium and the cover should be soldered to it too.
This aluminum solder is now since month under my bench and I would like to try it.
Here the simulation of the milling operation.
QmbLHigFhuoAfter doing a test yesterday, the real part was made today.
The final operation is done with a 3 mm ball cutter for steel, because my one for aluminum does not fit by the cutting length.
The surface is not as fine as the the surface made before one step earlier with the 4 mm ball cutter.
To be honest, I am very happy that I have learned the first steps in real 3d machining also now and new a chapter of the book (the dark side of model engineering) is open now.


Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on May 01, 2019, 11:23:00 AM
Nicely done  :praise2: I still have to make the first step to the dark side  ::)
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on June 03, 2019, 07:53:32 PM
Hi Roger,
to be honest I do like the dark side of model engineering very much.


In the meantime a lot of holes and threading has been made, partly also with the help of the dark side.
There has been 15 mm space for the operation to drill the holes for the end flanges.
But finally we have got it, everything was adjustable in Fusion360 CAM.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on June 03, 2019, 08:03:15 PM

Next to do, the door hinges.


This video shows how not to operate a CNC or conventional mill.


N9LDmI_An6k




Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Johnmcc69 on June 03, 2019, 08:46:00 PM
Great work Achim!

 John
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Don1966 on June 03, 2019, 11:39:17 PM
She is looking great Achim ........I..........like.........  :Love:



 :popcorn:
Don
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: gbritnell on June 04, 2019, 11:21:25 AM
Hi Achim,
The crankcase is coming along great! Those covers give it a very industrial look.
gbritnell
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on June 05, 2019, 08:40:41 PM
John, Don and George, thank you very much for watching and taking the time to give positive comments.
Progress is slow currently, due to a nice summer starting and some necessary gardening.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: scc on June 05, 2019, 08:56:35 PM
Wonderful work Achim,  :praise2:   And congrats for mastering the "dark side"    My mind is incapable of taking me there....even if I wanted it to. :headscratch:    Terry
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on June 09, 2019, 06:53:17 AM
Hi Terry, thanks for watching and never underestimate your mind, please.
It is mostly able to achieve more than you are ever able to think about.

Next part of the door hinge story is done.
These parts are really tiny in my eyes.
The pin hole is 1,5 mm and they are made from a 4 x 4 mm brass bar.
8 pieces are needed, so I have cut material for 10.
I have found an old fixture in the shelf, something I have used for the Snow build earlier, similar to what I know under the term "finger plate".
This thing was modified to do the job.

Here a short video of the simulation, followed by the real job with the CNC mill.


HrBbC7yFCXo

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on June 14, 2019, 07:49:39 PM
Some epoxy glue and the door hinges are in a fixed position.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on June 14, 2019, 11:35:54 PM
Nice result so far Achim  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on June 21, 2019, 10:22:11 AM
Hi Per thanks.


Next step the crankshaft bearings.
First the end flanges from aluminum bar stock, a job for the lathe to get a nice slip fit in the crank housing and a concentric bore for the bronze bush.
My shaft diameter will be 12 mm so I have drilled the bushes first up to 11 mm and than a turning operation to 11,8 mm.
The rest was done by a 12H7 reamer.
Now we have had the first moment for a sample assembly with a dummy shaft.
To be honest I have been very nervous, because the first moment of truth was there and the question, will it turn freely ?
But there was a positive surprise......
gVFqw_MUJMY
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: yogi on June 21, 2019, 03:29:12 PM
Beautiful work Achim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
It's coming together nicely!  :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Don1966 on June 21, 2019, 04:43:19 PM
Good results Achim bet you happier then a squirrel in a box of nuts!..... :ThumbsUp:



 :cheers:
Don


Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on June 21, 2019, 05:22:25 PM
You must be pleased with that alignment  :praise2:  :praise2:  :wine1:  Straighter than my camshafts  :(
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on June 21, 2019, 07:02:30 PM
You must be pleased with that alignment  :praise2: :praise2: :wine1:  Straighter than my camshafts  :(


Hi Roger thanks.
My camshaft will come later, so we will see what will happen to it.
By the way your camshaft, why are you doing this hardening story ?
Our engines are running with low revs, mostly no load on it, and we enjoy to see it idle with pencil springs at valves.
Is there a real need for a heat treatment ?
You are living in Switzerland now, the place were they produce the ETG 100 steel, very similar to 1141 Stressproof and easy to machine and no hardening necessary.
If you use this, for a camshaft it should last for an engine life.
So my two cent.


And Don, yes, I will jump back into the box with the nuts now.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on June 21, 2019, 07:49:25 PM
Beautiful work Achim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
It's coming together nicely!  :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:


Thanks Yogi.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on June 22, 2019, 11:38:24 AM
Hi Achim,

My two cylinder engine is planned to work for it's living in a small tractor (as is the diesel when it eventually runs properly  ::) ) so I am expecting it to spend time at 3 - 4 000 rpm. The start of the concept is below.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on June 23, 2019, 07:46:56 AM
Hi Achim,

My two cylinder engine is planned to work for it's living in a small tractor (as is the diesel when it eventually runs properly  ::) ) so I am expecting it to spend time at 3 - 4 000 rpm. The start of the concept is below.


Hi Roger,
by understanding your future purpose of these engines now, it makes more sense to go the old fashioned way.
On the other side, may be it is worth to try an experiment and see when the wear at a non heattreated ETG 100 cam shaft will start ?


Anyway, good luck for all your following R&D work with your very interesting projects.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on July 06, 2019, 03:15:34 PM
Hi everybody, some little progress with the next part for this engine.
In the drawing it is called shaft locator, it is sitting close to the middle crank shaft bearing and is responsible to keep one lower bevel gear in position.
Material is steel and it was time now to make the CAM program for my very first CNC milled steel part.
I have been very carefully scary about it, so the mill toolpaths were defined in 0,5 mm steps only.
The result was o.k. until I have seen the small pocket which was milled in second program step with a 4 mm 4 flute cutter.
The pocket does not look like the one at the drawing.
All this was done last Sunday and the outside and inside temperature has been over 34° C so I have been in evening not in the failure analysis mood anymore.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on July 06, 2019, 03:27:10 PM
This morning I have done a new set up of the part at the CNC mill and checked some dimensions.
The big and small bore seems to be correct, also the outer shape.
Something had happened with the Y WCS, it was moved by nearly 1,5 mm for the operation of this little pocket.
Reason:
Overheated operator at the CNC mill ?
To much or not enough cool bear at these days in the shop fridge ?
At the end I have repeated the CAM operation for this small pocket with the right WCS today and it does looks like at the drawing now.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on July 16, 2019, 08:19:38 PM
Hi everybody, some more parts and another visibly motion.
I know only small steps but progress is progress in my understanding even if it is very slowly.


ocD1TNSFcL0
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on July 16, 2019, 08:41:21 PM
Quote
I know only small steps but progress is progress in my understanding even if it is very slowly.

Amen to that  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: gbritnell on July 16, 2019, 11:22:10 PM
It doesn't matter how slow the progress is the work is outstanding.
gbritnell
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Tonyr on July 17, 2019, 07:21:57 PM
Hi Achim,

That is looking really good.
Very impressive.

Tony
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on August 05, 2019, 07:54:57 PM
Per, George , Tony thanks for watching.


A bit progress with the gear train.
The drive train starts at the crank shaft but I do not have a crank shaft at the moment, so my dummy shaft was prepared with a bush with flange for a temporary fixation of the drive gear. All further action will be seen best in the following pictures.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on August 05, 2019, 07:56:58 PM
..and the next load.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on August 05, 2019, 07:58:12 PM
.. finally some motion.




j6evVEZBSP0
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: crueby on August 05, 2019, 08:05:19 PM
Excellent, nice smooth engagement.   :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Don1966 on August 05, 2019, 10:16:46 PM
Very impressive Achim nice and smooth!


 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on August 06, 2019, 06:54:32 PM
Nicely done  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: What is the boring bar you are using in picture 33?
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on August 06, 2019, 09:18:25 PM
Nicely done  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: What is the boring bar you are using in picture 33?


Hi Roger,
try an eBay search with Horn Super Mini R105.
You will find some used ones for very small money.


https://youtu.be/78XYpr2Vnvg
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on August 06, 2019, 09:20:56 PM
Chris, Don thanks for watching.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on August 18, 2019, 10:50:52 AM
Hi everybody,
some progress with the pedestal.
Some AW 5083 aluminium, some good cutters and a lot of chips.
I am very happy that I can use the CNC mill for this kind of job.



Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: gbritnell on August 18, 2019, 12:16:14 PM
The engine is coming along nicely Achim.
gbritnell
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on August 19, 2019, 08:25:46 PM
Hi George, thanks for visiting and the friendly comments.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on December 19, 2019, 12:16:09 PM
Hi everybody,
also the forum software has recognized, that there was nothing new since 120 days at this thread.
As mentioned already in another posting, work life kept me very busy during late summer and fall.
But some more parts has been made in the meantime.
Conrods are finished and a temporary base plate.
The next picture is showing the, from ETG 100 (similar 1141 stressproof),  already prepare blanks for the crank shafts.
This was made beginning of October already.
Last picture is made at last Tuesday, so we have another little progress.
Currently I am milling the next slots in the crank shaft blanks.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: propforward on December 19, 2019, 01:44:47 PM
Those are very high quality parts - I expect you are very pleased with those, and rightly so. That is a nice pile of chips on your mill!   :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on December 19, 2019, 03:31:27 PM
Those are very high quality parts - I expect you are very pleased with those, and rightly so. That is a nice pile of chips on your mill!   :ThumbsUp:


Thanks Stuart.
Unfortunately is my band saw to small to cut such big pieces off.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: steam guy willy on December 19, 2019, 07:25:34 PM
Hi, I love the way the 21st century technology is making something very 19th century looking.    Great work loving it  :popcorn: :popcorn:

willy
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Dave Otto on December 20, 2019, 01:19:35 AM
Nice progress Achim, everything is looking great!

Dave
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: scc on December 20, 2019, 09:49:46 AM
Nice :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on December 20, 2019, 09:56:54 AM


Hi, I love the way the 21st century technology is making something very 19th century looking.    Great work loving it  :popcorn: :popcorn:

willy


Hi Willy, good to know that you do like it. Thanks for the friendly comment.



Nice progress Achim, everything is looking great!

Dave


Dave, thanks for still watching my slow motion build.


It seems to be, that all 4 conrods will have found a new home where to live in future.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on December 21, 2019, 08:41:09 PM
Nice :popcorn: :popcorn:
Hi Terry, thanks vor watching.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on December 22, 2019, 07:44:34 AM
Some further progress during crank shaft machining.
First time I realized, that my Proxxon band saw is able to cut steel like butter.
A bi-metal band saw blade with 10/14 teeth/inch was used.
Making an octagon of each shaft end will help for further smoother turning operation.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on December 24, 2019, 04:15:24 PM

Hi everybody.Crank shaft machining next steps.
The outer shafts and one inner shaft seems to be fine so far.
And we do have some new motion so far.
oww9eBGhUpE

Merry Christmas
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on December 24, 2019, 06:06:54 PM
Nice progress Achim - it is always good to see things go round 'n' round as they should  :ThumbsUp:

I can't remember if you have shown how the two halves go together - is that "just" the bearing + a locking pin to garantie they follow each other ?
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on December 24, 2019, 06:58:33 PM
Nice progress Achim - it is always good to see things go round 'n' round as they should  :ThumbsUp:

I can't remember if you have shown how the two halves go together - is that "just" the bearing + a locking pin to garantie they follow each other ?


Per, thanks.


After getting the second crank shaft half in the same condition as the one in the video, than my next challenge is shown in the picture.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on December 24, 2019, 07:36:20 PM
I hope that you drawing isn't an accurate representation  :o

Either the ball bearing should be much wider or the milling removal of material on the adjacent axles should be different, so you have much more support .... but I get the idea.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on December 25, 2019, 07:25:20 AM
Hi Per, my CAD model is created by using the original design of Doug Kelly, as published in the magazine "The Home Shop Machinist Nov/Dec 2012".
So I assume that this a proven design, already build by several model engine makers around the world. Jeff Conner, who has build engine #2, nearly simultaneous with the first model of Doug, has given me the tip, to do this machining very accurate and to avoid any clearance.
He explained me, that if possible, a very slight interference fit will be better. That means always using some fitting blocks in each crank shaft web for assembly/disassembly.
Some other models, seen be him at different shows, seems to develop some clearance at this connection over the time.
Nothing worse for the function, but something may be worth to avoid. I will see what I can archive there.       

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on December 25, 2019, 07:43:54 PM
OK - I was just worried when I saw you drawing. Here it looks to me like (slightly) less than half the circumference off each crankhalf is supported -> possible vibrations that might destroy the crank.

Quote
a very slight interference fit will be better.

Sounds like a good plan - but will you then have to heat the bearing or cool the two crank halves in order to assemble it ...?...  :thinking:

Let me assure that I only hope you will be successful - I do have a tendency to look for possible trouble - simply just to avoid it, if possible ....  :old:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on December 25, 2019, 10:53:44 PM


Let me assure that I only hope you will be successful -


Me too.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on December 29, 2019, 05:02:01 PM
Some, let´s say positive progress, in my understanding.
I have got it managed to archive a very, very slight press fit with both half's of the crank shafts.
The assembly is only possible by a slight knocking with a soft hammer.
Disassembly is really difficult, but I do have a plan. The outer shafts has got a M 5 Thread.
And the lower shown tool will help me to get it out again.
Only disadvantage, I need something to protect the crank shaft during this operation.
The clamp will be made two times than, one for each side of the LH crank shaft.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on December 29, 2019, 08:35:22 PM
Nice progress and good thinking forward, in order to prevent problems  :cheers:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on December 31, 2019, 04:26:09 PM
Next little machining was done.
M 5 thread for possible disassembly.
Machining the groves for they keys. The huge cutter is 2 mm.
Nearly forgotten, the spot face for a possible grub screw of the water pump pulley.
Ultrasonic cleaning for the blacking.
The assembly/disassembly helpers in action.
Finally the adjustment of the axial end play for each crank shaft side.

 
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on December 31, 2019, 04:30:31 PM
... and we do have some motion of the, hopefully, final assembled crank shaft with lower gear train.




Cbh0e5fdgoY







And yes, nearly forgotten "Happy New Year"  to everybody.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Don1966 on December 31, 2019, 04:50:09 PM
Wow that is awesome Achim love to motion......  :Love:



 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: crueby on December 31, 2019, 04:53:33 PM
Nice and smooth motion, excellent!
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on January 02, 2020, 05:18:40 PM
Looking Good  :praise2:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 19, 2020, 11:01:52 AM
Don, Chris and Roger, thanks for watching and giving friendly and encouraging comments.

Last weekend I have started some work for the cylinders already, again with the help of my mini CNC mill.This time doing it with steel.
I have been surprised by the result and the way how this little motor with 4.000 rev/min cuts the steel.


Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 19, 2020, 11:08:45 AM
Last Friday, after seeing some pictures of the real engine in the net again, I was impressed by the service platform, which is always visible there.
All the models I have seen so far, do not have it.
So maybe a reason to attack it.
I have started with the CAD model, unfortunately there are something about 42 components necessary.
For orientation, the diameter of the handrails are 2 mm.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: gbritnell on January 19, 2020, 04:37:05 PM
Really adds a finishing touch to the engine.
gbritnell
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Dave Otto on January 19, 2020, 07:02:17 PM
That is going to add some nice detail to the enigne.

Dave
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: zeeprogrammer on January 20, 2020, 11:19:24 PM
Love the handrails. It's made me rethink my design for Spinster (spinning wheel model). Looks like quite a job to do!  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: sid pileski on January 22, 2020, 05:30:03 PM
This past weekend at Cabin Fever, I met an saw Doug Kelly's engines. Just outstanding work!
I wondering what you are going to use for the cylinders? Are you going to bore material to size or I think I've heard mentioned using honed, hydraulic cylinder tubing. I cant remember if someone mentioned it at the show??

Coming along nicely, BTW!

Thanks, Sid
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 22, 2020, 07:19:26 PM
George, Dave and Carl, thanks for watching and the friendly comments.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 22, 2020, 07:42:32 PM
This past weekend at Cabin Fever, I met an saw Doug Kelly's engines. Just outstanding work!
I wondering what you are going to use for the cylinders? Are you going to bore material to size or I think I've heard mentioned using honed, hydraulic cylinder tubing. I cant remember if someone mentioned it at the show??

Coming along nicely, BTW!

Thanks, Sid


Hi Sid, thanks.
The recommendation of Doug is to use a leaded steel for the liners. I think at your side of the pond, it means to use L1141. The equivalent here in Europe is a 9SMn28k (11SMn30+C). This is what I have used already for my copy of the Snow engine, the Opposed Piston Engine or other engines. Here it will be the same.
A standard conventional machining at the lathe with drilling, turning and a final honing will be my choice.
Last week end the first cylinder has been started already.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: sid pileski on January 22, 2020, 08:40:57 PM
I think "on my side of the pond" it's 12L14 leaded steal.
I've used that many times.
I'm waiting for my set of plans from HSM. I talked with George Bullis at the show last week, so I'm just doing some preliminary investigations.
I'll be following along on your build. looks very nice. Can't wait to see it run!

Sid
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 23, 2020, 05:52:53 AM
I think "on my side of the pond" it's 12L14 leaded steal.



Hi Sid, you are absolutely right.
I have mixed it up completely. Sometime it is a bit confusing with all these names of grades in different countries.
BTW, I have learned that most of these steel grades does not contains lead anymore, because of the toxic gases coming free during production.
So here in Germany, or other parts of the EU, the steel contains Mn, manganese, as an additive to get the property of a better chip breaking.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: petertha on January 23, 2020, 06:20:44 AM
How have you guys found 12L14 for corrosion over time in a model engine? General parts I've made from 12L14 around the shop can show rust flecks and I live in a very dry part of the world. Gnerally I blacken them but that's not possible for a cylinder liner. I love machining the stuff & considered it for my radial engine but, particularly because its methanol glow fuel, opted for cast iron. Not sure it will be a noticeable improvement but CI is whats called for in the plans & even old school commercial glow engines used CI it before hard chroming came in.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: crueby on January 23, 2020, 01:52:25 PM
How have you guys found 12L14 for corrosion over time in a model engine? General parts I've made from 12L14 around the shop can show rust flecks and I live in a very dry part of the world. Gnerally I blacken them but that's not possible for a cylinder liner. I love machining the stuff & considered it for my radial engine but, particularly because its methanol glow fuel, opted for cast iron. Not sure it will be a noticeable improvement but CI is whats called for in the plans & even old school commercial glow engines used CI it before hard chroming came in.
I only used 12L14 once, cut well, but rusted quickly in the damp summer air. Switched to 303 stainless, cuts great too without the rust, never went back.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: sid pileski on January 23, 2020, 05:21:24 PM
As the prototype is all painted (both full size and the models) rusting on the outside would not be an issue. Are you worried about rusting when the engine has not been run for a period of time?
I too like 303. I've used it on a flame eater with a carbon piston that's held up well over the years.
303 machines nice and polishes up nice too.

Sid
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: petertha on January 23, 2020, 07:49:02 PM
Yes, exactly Sid. The ID surface of a cylinder liner will be exposed to the remnant fuel during storage in between runnings. I know of some engines that specifically call for 12l14, they run on gasoline (as opposed to methanol or other similar spirits) with either pre-mix oil or oil pump. They don't seem to have the same degree of corrosion problems, but still I've have heard comments. I guess one can get into after-run / storage protective oil circulation which is quite common practice for RC engines, but that can be a pain on more complex engines. Have not heard of 303 SS being used but I'm no expert either. Anyways, didn't want to derail the thread on this issue, it just caught my eye & I will be commencing my own liners soon, hence the interest.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: sid pileski on January 24, 2020, 12:11:23 AM
Well, I guess it is a matter of where and how you store them after a run.
I believe in Marvel Mystery Oil, so a little down the carb after a run should do it.

Now, back to this build!

Sid 
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 24, 2020, 09:18:37 AM



Hi Sid, Peter an Chris, so far I have not noticed any kind of corrosion at my stock of "
Automatenstahl 9SMn28k (11SMn30+C)".

May be there is a difference to the 12L14, sold in the states, because the common European stuff is without lead (Pb) there is manganese (Mn) added.
My very first IC engine, was a Webster, build and first run end of 2011. This engine is also equipped with a liner made by the above mentioned steel.
It sits in a display cabinet since may years now. I will get it out there and inspect the liner soon.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 02, 2020, 03:54:03 PM
Hi everybody, some progress with the cylinder manufacturing.
Doing my first attempt for the water jacket, I failed  with my set up part, being inattentive
See the big scratch in the upper place where later the line will be seated.




Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 02, 2020, 04:03:26 PM
Over the week I was thinking about changing my machining strategy and purchasing a new boring bar for DCMT0702 inserts.
I thought it was a good idea because of the way it could be used, better than my usual CCMT0602 insert.
But also here I failed completely, I have had no chance to get it machined properly
Until today no idea why that happens.
After killing 3,5 inserts I have changed my strategy back to the CCMT insert and a machining from two sides was done.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 02, 2020, 04:06:16 PM
Today the silver soldering job was done.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: petertha on February 02, 2020, 05:25:53 PM
Nice work. Was there a particular reason for not integrally machining the flange when you did the rest of the turning vs. silver soldering a separate piece? Maybe just less waste metal of larder stock OD?
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 02, 2020, 06:15:01 PM
Hi Peter,  yes less swarf was the reason for the choice to go this road.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on February 09, 2020, 07:59:24 AM
I have always used DCMT0702 inserts for boring without significant problems. Are those the inserts that came with the tool or 'know brand' ones? Maybe the tool itself has a problem? Can you post a picture of the tool and insert?
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 09, 2020, 10:14:22 AM
Hi Roger,
the inserts are from a German dealer, sure an imported stuff, but I assume there is a quality check.
https://shop.kobratec.com/public/catalog_xmlxslproducts.aspx?art=viewproduct&suid=13335&productid=122700459&zid=8abe8679-4e35-4bd0-8850-65970f58f182&ln=gb (https://shop.kobratec.com/public/catalog_xmlxslproducts.aspx?art=viewproduct&suid=13335&productid=122700459&zid=8abe8679-4e35-4bd0-8850-65970f58f182&ln=gb)
This above mentioned inserts are nearly 1 year in my hands and I have used them in other applications than a boring bar without any issues successfully.
The here used boring bar is also from the above mentioned shop.
https://shop.kobratec.com/public/catalog_xmlxslproducts.aspx?art=viewproduct&suid=13335&productid=122701084&zid=8abe8679-4e35-4bd0-8850-65970f58f182&ln=gb (https://shop.kobratec.com/public/catalog_xmlxslproducts.aspx?art=viewproduct&suid=13335&productid=122701084&zid=8abe8679-4e35-4bd0-8850-65970f58f182&ln=gb)
Also this is usually not the cheapest stuff you can buy.
I am using also other inserts like CCMT0602 or parting off (POV) inserts from this company without any problems.
In my special case I have the assumption, that the kind of mild steel from the steel tube together with the lathe, the speed and the created vibrations are the cause for this strange behavior. Unfortunately I can not see inside during the operation to watch the chips coming off after the cutting process.   
Before I stopped everthing, I have done a trial with an unknown Chinese DCMT0702 insert, which also quits after half way.
In a very short time I will start with the liners of this engine, which will be made from "Automatenstahl" 9SMn28K (11SMn30+C).
So a good opportunity to check the behavior within other material, because this kind of insets, used for the very last operation, are giving normally a very smooth surface.

   
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on February 09, 2020, 07:18:27 PM
I had problems with a piece of steel of unknown origin (come in handium in Jo's terms) that broke my Proxxon and Glanze tips but some Mitsubishi stainless steel tips worked without problems.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 15, 2020, 06:35:28 PM
Last weekend I have finalist the cylinder clean out and coolant doors preparation.
The CNC job for the outer shape was done before Christmas already.



Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 16, 2020, 07:35:34 AM

Hi everybody, some more progress.

To keep the the coolant entrance in position for soldering was easy by using a M 4 bolt.
For the clean out door a soldering fixture was made.
Start is a little piece of 6 x 16 mm rectangle stock.
Last week I have made it virtual in 3 CAD, I love it in the meantime very much to use this tool for nearly everything before I start to make swarf.
The fixture itself was made yesterday quick and dirty, by a small piece of 6 mm Aluminium plate.
The discounter oven was heated up to max temp, 250° C and a plumber solder paste (melting temp 230° C) to fix it.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 16, 2020, 01:55:51 PM
..and here the result of the soldering with some cleaning and polishing of all at the end.
Next to do, liners.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Johnmcc69 on February 16, 2020, 02:09:47 PM
 :ThumbsUp:
 Looking good Achim!

 John
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 15, 2020, 03:50:23 PM
Hi John, thanks for watching.


One sample liner was made to check the best way how to do it.
Playing with different inserts to check the best possible surface.
Checking the piston ring gap, was showing me, that 9 are o.K. and one is scrap.
A final honing operation was also done.
The sample liner has had a light press fit in the set up #0 cylinder using a hammer, because the press was still under the bench.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: petertha on March 15, 2020, 04:11:53 PM
Coming along nice!

Do you have a sense of how much material you are removing using the spring honing stone tool and how parallel the bore is?

I tried a similar tool (brake hone they are called here) which had 3 stones and shorter sprung arms vs. your 2 stones & longer arms. I cant say I was real happy with my results. It started out looking good with what appeared to be even removal of machining mark 'hill tops'. But became obvious soon after that bell-mouthing was occurring even though I had an even stroke & stones exited maybe 5mm on either end. That tool didn't seem to be of great quality but also not much different to what I see in automotive repair hardware stores. I think there may be merit to making something better using this principle, but in the end I went with other methods & finishing with brass lap. The bores are within 0.0001" across 1.8" length. I'll post some pics when I do my build thread but thought I'd inquire because lapping is a long, PITA process especially when you have multiple cylinders.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 15, 2020, 06:52:18 PM

Do you have a sense of how much material you are removing using the spring honing stone tool and how parallel the bore is?




Hi Peter, to be honest no.
I assume, that only the machined surface will be smoother after using it.
May be using this tool for 10 Minutes will give a value which will be visible at an micrometer, but no idea how to keep a bore parallel by using it by hand and random movement.



Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on March 15, 2020, 08:36:33 PM
Nice to see that you are making progress Achim  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 22, 2020, 06:33:01 AM
Hi Per, thanks for watching.


To go ahead with the cylinders and liners it was necessary to get the arbor press out of the storeroom and on the bench. Unfortunately my shop is not big enough to keep such a tool permanently on the bench.
I have had a look at my flywheel castings also, because of the also needed press operation to get the separately machined hub into the flywheel casting.

By what ever reason I have done the decision to go head with the flywheels now first.
The castings were purchased in Swiss, because I have found there the right dimensions to squeeze the design of D.Kelleys flywheels into it.
After some thoughts, it came up with the machining set up like shown in the pictures below.
If have had still a little face plate from my very first Mini Lathe, which could do a proper job in this case.
The fixture disk was made from an available scrap piece of aluminium. No RT and no CNC needed.
The hub is an extra machined part, which will be fitted by a slight press fit and some Loctite.
A challenge for me was to get the right compromise of fixed connection between hub and flywheel, but to leave the possibility of minor movement the get the functionality of clamping between hub and crankshaft.
The last pictures shows my idea how to select the surface for the Loctite 648 and leave a special area whiteout any glued connection to the flywheel.
Another additional challenge for me was the feather key groove, which is my additional design to this connection
My further experiences with flywheel  connections, specially with the Snow Engine, led me into this, in my understanding, safer way to do it.

 
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on March 22, 2020, 07:41:55 AM
That's in interesting take on a flywheel clamp and an ingenious setup  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 22, 2020, 08:59:51 AM
Hi Roger, thanks.

It took about 3 or 4 rejected concepts for these set up, before I realized that the hub of the casting and the inner part of the rim are not concentric.
So I have concentrated for the set up to the run out of the inner, later not machined, part oft the rim only.
Than I understood, that one side of the outer rim (the other one was marked with a poured serial number) was running very thru with the inner part of the rim.
So the decision was clear now how to proceed.
But during the machining of the first side of flywheel rim #1 I have realized a new aspect to think about.
It looks like that the design of Doug Kelley has scaled down the shape of the original flywheel nearly 1:1, could be seen in my CAD model, picture #10, below.
At the lathe I have seen that a lot of material (mass) will disappear in the swarf box.
Small model engine, available oscillating weight to reduce ?
I thought this will be not a good idea, Doug K. sorry for this.
So I have modified my CAD model a bit  and came up with the flywheel design in picture #11.
The next two pictures does compare the two designs in the overall view with the engine.
In my understanding is does not hurt so much and I have change the machining to my modified design with the advantage of more oscillating weight.
The bore for the hub was adjusted to final size by using the brake honing tool again.
Last but not least, the arbor press in action and the first flywheel nearly finished.
Next picture my lathe after machining two of these flywheel castings.
To be honest, I will never ever understand why a lot of people have fun to build nearly a whole model engine from castings.
For my it is a big mess only.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 22, 2020, 09:12:45 AM
Last week end I was able to do the first assemble with the two flywheels and checking the first hand driven movement of the crank drive.
I have been very happy with the result so far.
iHl5ofu3a50
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 22, 2020, 09:31:07 AM
My next adventure was started immediately, the keyway grooves, never done before so far.
When I have made my CAD design by the original drawings with all metric adaptions in 2017, I have chosen a 3 mm key for it.
Knowing than already, that a 3 mm guide for the 3 mm broach is for a 10 mm shaft available only.
My camshaft is 12 mm, so I thought there will a way, I only have to find it.
First idea was to make an open bush, 12x1 mm and adjust it between the purchased guide an the hole in my flywheel.
Good plan, but the purchased guide for the broach is in length 22 mm only and my hub in the flywheel does have 26 mm in length.
So the broach would be 4 mm without any support, no good idea.
A sketch was made to make the right guide for my special application.
The job itself was done than easily and the broach is still alive in one piece.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 22, 2020, 10:36:50 AM
One other additional job to do.
The Bruce Macbeth engine does have in my opinion one very special characteristic attribute, the square wholes in the flywheel to get them adjusted to the right starting positing of the crankshaft.
I took the opportunity to order the Hemingway Rotary Broaching Kit, but it will take some to get it and to make the tool than. So for another project, may be.
It was time now to find the dusty rotary table in lowest drawer again, banned there due to all the CNC jobs which have canceled the need of any further usage.
A 4 mm hole was made, followed by a square milling operation with a 2 mm cutter.
24 wholes, 12 in each flywheel and of course if have mixed it up one time.
But JB WELD is the friend of all of us. Finally it will be painted or powder coated and than nobody will see it anymore.
I hope the very last story with this casting will be to remove the burr. I have planed to do this job at the garden table already in the coming warmer spring time.
Two days during last week, we have seen 17° C already but last night we have get another 3 cm of snow again.
This white cover was not really seen during the whole past winter time, but currently it is melting fast already.   
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: gbritnell on March 22, 2020, 01:53:29 PM
Hi Achim,
I don't know the background of this engine but a similar engine, the Holt tractor engine, had notches in the flywheel also. Given the large displacement of these engines I'm assuming it was quite impractical to crank start them so pockets were put into the flywheel so that the engine could be started with a large bar. Now the notches weren't just a hole that the bar would fit into but rather they were tapered on one side so that when the engine started the bar would be easier to retract. I have heard many stories about occasions when the bar didn't come out and one can only guess the consequences!
Still following your excellent build.
gbritnell
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Vixen on March 22, 2020, 02:09:12 PM
Hello Achim, George.

Many large (huge) marine diesel engines also have those pockets in the flywheel. The ship sized engines, I refer to, were far to big to start by hand. The pockets were there to rotate the engine during maintenance or when a bearing had to be tightened or remetaled or replaced. The process of turning the engine was known as 'baring the engine'. Because that's what they used, a big bar and wedges to inch the crankshaft into the desired position.

Mike
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 22, 2020, 02:46:25 PM
Now the notches weren't just a hole that the bar would fit into but rather they were tapered on one side so that when the engine started the bar would be easier to retract.
gbritnell


Hi George, thanks for watching and the friendly words.
Some time ago I have heard from this tapered styled holes also already. I am sure, that there has the one and other not so amused action happened if it was not used in the correct way.
I hope that all of you will apologize, that I have tried to give it the right appearance and I have not done the one to one scale down, also with the taper inside. :mischief:

Wishing all the best for you and your families, because the feeling her in south of Germany is already a bit strange.
Nearly all shops and restaurants are closed, you are not allowed to leave your house, only for work, doctor and the supermarket so far.
Since today the Police started to control peoples behavior. 

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Rustkolector on March 22, 2020, 06:07:32 PM
Hello Achim,
Your B-M engine project is coming along nicely. The B-M engines were all built with compressed air starting so the flywheel holes were for barring the flywheels to the starting position.

Stay Home. Stay well.

Best Regards,
Jeff
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: MJM460 on March 22, 2020, 11:28:57 PM
Hi Achim, I for one am sure that no apologies are necessary, you are doing a wonderful job of that engine.  I learn heaps from how you have fabricated complex parts, and got them looking so good.

It is indeed strange times, it will be a different world when we emerge and have to try and get things going again.  In the mean time, lots of time for our hobbies.

MJM460

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 24, 2020, 03:14:00 PM
Hi Jeff,
Hi MJM460,
thanks for the encouraging comments.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: steamer on March 24, 2020, 04:01:31 PM
Yes    Baring holes.    Some of the larger engines had baring engines to turn the engines over.....Worm gear for a 750 HP compound from a steam tug boat.  You can just see the swinging bracket at the left end of the engine bed.   a worm would be fitted there with a shaft that has a large wrench hex.  The bracket also had a curve slot so that it could be swung into engagement with a large worm wheel that clamped to the coupling flange ( 2 halves).   Once you swung the gear into place it would also prevent the engine from rotating...which makes working on a engine like this safe....the crankshaft alone weighs 9000 pounds.   A simple flange with baring holes can be seen to the right of the Seabury 100 HP triple from a steam yacht.

Dave

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 24, 2020, 04:34:18 PM
Also a pleasure to watch


GQTVUFGBfxs
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: crueby on March 24, 2020, 04:40:57 PM
Yes    Baring holes.    Some of the larger engines had baring engines to turn the engines over.....Worm gear for a 750 HP compound from a steam tug boat.  You can just see the swinging bracket at the left end of the engine bed.   a worm would be fitted there with a shaft that has a large wrench hex.  The bracket also had a curve slot so that it could be swung into engagement with a large worm wheel that clamped to the coupling flange ( 2 halves).   Once you swung the gear into place it would also prevent the engine from rotating...which makes working on a engine like this safe....the crankshaft alone weighs 9000 pounds.   A simple flange with baring holes can be seen to the right of the Seabury 100 HP triple from a steam yacht.

Dave
That looks like it was taken just outside the sshipyard buyilding at Mytsic Seaport, right?   :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: steamer on March 24, 2020, 04:47:14 PM
Yes    Baring holes.    Some of the larger engines had baring engines to turn the engines over.....Worm gear for a 750 HP compound from a steam tug boat.  You can just see the swinging bracket at the left end of the engine bed.   a worm would be fitted there with a shaft that has a large wrench hex.  The bracket also had a curve slot so that it could be swung into engagement with a large worm wheel that clamped to the coupling flange ( 2 halves).   Once you swung the gear into place it would also prevent the engine from rotating...which makes working on a engine like this safe....the crankshaft alone weighs 9000 pounds.   A simple flange with baring holes can be seen to the right of the Seabury 100 HP triple from a steam yacht.

Dave
That looks like it was taken just outside the sshipyard buyilding at Mytsic Seaport, right?   :ThumbsUp:

correct....The mustachiod dude is me!
 8)
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 28, 2020, 07:59:10 PM
Hi everybody, some impressions of the continued liner job.
All my cylinders are a bit conical inside in one or the other direction. Something about 0,02 mm.
So I have matched the outer liner machining with each liner to this specific situation.
The interference should be nearly 0 with a very small tendency of a slightly bigger liner by less than 0,01 mm, theoretical.
Three times it was nearly perfect to get the liners pushed in easily with the arbor press.
The very last one has had a little surprise for me and was stuck at the very last 5 mm.
Seeing a thick wall aluminum tube in the shelf, has solved my panic and it could not resist anymore.



Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Don1966 on March 28, 2020, 11:21:57 PM
Looking great Achim still with you!....... :ThumbsUp:


 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 29, 2020, 09:46:42 PM
Thanks, Don.
Good to know that you  are still watching.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 30, 2020, 01:36:48 PM
Hi everybody,
more progress at the liner job.
All are ready machined to fit in the crank case now and also all by same length.
Next to do, a big chamfer at the bottom end of the liners, to avoid later contact with the conrods in motion.
Also missing, the spark plug holes and the hole pattern for cylinder head fixation with water transfer.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Vixen on March 30, 2020, 01:49:58 PM
Hello Achim,

I'm still silently following along and admiring your work. The engine is becoming more recognisable as you add more parts

Stay in, stay safe

MIke
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 30, 2020, 03:15:28 PM
Hi Mike, thanks for watching and the friendly comments.
May be, if the Bruce Macbeth engine will be ready one day, it can drive the compressor to start your Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine ;D


Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Vixen on March 30, 2020, 03:23:42 PM
May be, if the Bruce Macbeth engine will be ready one day, it can drive the compressor to start your Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine ;D


Great idea, That's what we all need to do now; all pulling together; teamwork.

Stay in, stay safe

Mike
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 31, 2020, 06:00:48 AM
The sectional view of the whole engine is showing that some special attention has to be paid to the conrod and liner clearance.
There is, as already mentioned earlier,  a big chamfer necessary.
This job is also done now. 
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 01, 2020, 12:25:18 PM
Hi everybody, the spark plug holes are also done now.
These 10-40 plugs are really tiny.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Johnmcc69 on April 01, 2020, 01:37:08 PM
 :ThumbsUp:
Looking good Achim!

 John
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 01, 2020, 03:28:35 PM
Thanks John.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on April 01, 2020, 05:26:38 PM
Excellent progress  :praise2:  :praise2: What ignition system are you planning to use as those small plugs could breakdown with too higher voltage?
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 01, 2020, 05:51:11 PM
Hi Roger, thanks.
Ignition system ist bought in the US from Roy .
http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,7527.msg205575.html#msg205575 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,7527.msg205575.html#msg205575)
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 07, 2020, 05:57:20 AM
Hi everybody,
before  I will open the water jacket against the cylinder head, I thought it might be a good idea to check all the water jackets for any leakage.
This could be done easily by using the little vacuum pump.
All four cylinders has been fine so far.


Next step was to make a simple fixture to put all 5 cylinders in an easy way on the table of the CNC mill.
Basic was a previous made fixture for the cylinders, used at the lathe before and now obsolete.


Last picture, result after drilling the whole pattern by the  CNC mill.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 10, 2020, 12:52:29 PM
Hi everybody,
hole pattern for the cylinder head fixation and the water pass.
The picture in my last post does show the final result.
The very first attempt, drilled into my set up part, was very irritating for me.
I have measured a gap of 1 mm, minus chamfer of the line bore, as the shortest distance between the combustion chamber an the water pass, picture 118.
So everything was stopped immediately and I had to ask the CAD model.
My model has shown also something strange in the section view.
So I had to understand the reason for it.
One reason was clear, the bore, drawn by Doug Kelley is 1", 25,4 mm my bore is 26 mm.
But this could not been the reason for the misalignment of the water channel.
After some deeper diving into my Fusion sketches, done 2017 by copying the original drawings, I have found another reason for this failure.
The in picture 120 marked dimension was in my Fusion sketch specified with 0,5673" and not with the required 0,573".
I assume I have made a kind of typing error here.
The correction in the CAD model plus a reduction of the bore has given a better result in my understanding, shown in picture 121, 122.
Now I have got an additional 0,4 mm gap to the combustion chamber.
The hole in the cylinder head will also be reduced in the some way, picture 125.
I hope there will be no big influence to the whole water circulation by reducing these 4 holes by 0,3 mm in diameter.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 11, 2020, 06:29:49 AM
Hi everybody,
having still the fixture for the cylinders at the CNC mill, I thought it might be a good idea to make the piston assembly tool now also.
A sleeve with a slight taper by 1° inside.
The video shows how it should be used.
The pistons are not made yet, so I have made a quick dummy to check the function.
YemRm9Wevso

And yes the piston ring gap is to much at this specific piston ring, it is a no good part used for this sample assembly.



Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on April 11, 2020, 07:52:42 AM
Little problems add up to become bigger problems  ::) I'm glad you got it sorted out  :ThumbsUp:  As the water will be flowing from the smaller bore to a larger one I don't think you will see much loss of flow.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on April 11, 2020, 12:57:46 PM
I think that Roger nailed it with his comment and I do hope that you end up with a satisfying result  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 12, 2020, 09:54:23 AM

Little problems add up to become bigger problems  ::)  I'm glad you got it sorted out  :ThumbsUp:   As the water will be flowing from the smaller bore to a larger one I don't think you will see much loss of flow.
Hi Roger thanks for watching.
I also think there will be no real reason to worry about any "cavitation pitting".


I think that Roger nailed it with his comment and I do hope that you end up with a satisfying result  :ThumbsUp:
Hi Per thanks for watching also. Good to know that you are following along.

Next job was to make the fake governor.
Picture 04 is documenting the evidence that you have to give the computer a clear advises what to do, otherwise the result will be nor what you respect.


The whole assembly was soft soldered in the discounter oven, everything work fine, with exception of the two balls. The gas coming out of the flux, kicked the balls of the pins. So had I to fix this in a separate operation afterwards.

And some motion.
WaudgPCbGdE
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 14, 2020, 01:58:16 PM
Hi everybody,
next job, the coolant manifold.
Some flanges and a pipe. 
The flanges partly done with the CNC mill and also with conventional machining.



Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 15, 2020, 07:33:20 AM
Hi everybody,
some more progress with the coolant manifold and an imperial vs. metric created minor problem.
The hole pattern was predrilled by CNC and finished by conventional drilling manually, in my understanding, with a better feeling for the 1,6 mm drill.
At the first sample assembling, I realized, that the metric M 1,6 mm bolt does have a bigger head than the imperial 0-80 inch bolt, recommended for this fixation.
In the last picture a CAD comparison of both types, in front the metric bolt 1,6 mm bolt.
Why does it takes so long to recognize this ?
The bolt models are available and a proper CAD software to check it also ?
These are the questions I have to discuss with the guy typing this post currently.


In my head is a solution already, but this will be done after the soldering.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: scc on April 15, 2020, 11:24:14 AM
 :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn:     Terry
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 17, 2020, 07:05:36 AM
Hi Terry, thanks for watching.


Next necessary job, the soft soldering of the manifold.
To do it in place at the engine was not a good idea.
The brass flanges are also fixed by soft soldering to the cylinders, so I would like to avoid any damage there.
A simple easy to handle fixture was necessary.
To get the real distance between each cylinder, included the already created minor deviations, I have put some dowel pins into the assembled cylinders at the engine and did a proper measurement.
By this distances a new sketch was created in Fusion360 and the computer has done the drilling into a bar.
Soft soldering was quite easy now.
Now the problem with the to big bolt heads had to be solved.
A member of our German forum has pointed me into this direction, shown in picture 20.
I had to take of something about 0,3 mm of the flange material
So no big deal but all the bolts a easy to assembly now.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on April 17, 2020, 11:16:32 AM
Good solution   :praise2:  :wine1: 0-80 is nearer M1.5 than M1.6.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 17, 2020, 12:12:19 PM
Hi Roger, yes theoretical.
Model engineering bolts or in accordance with the European ISO Standard, you will get easily
M 1
M 1,2
M 1,4
M 1,6
M 2 
so my choice was M 1,6, because these tapes and dies are available in my shop as smallest size.


Nice progress with your SU carb.
If you are searching for other springs, I can recommend the Gutekunst Online Shop.
i.e a spring with 0,3 mm wire.




 
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: gbritnell on April 17, 2020, 12:42:31 PM
Hi Achim,
The engine looks great! I have also made many assembly fixtures for soldering pieces together. It's better than ruining work that has taken many hours of work. It's strange that the smallest taps and dies you can get is M1.6. Over here in Imperial land I can get all the way down to M1.0x.25.
gbritnell
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 17, 2020, 01:19:15 PM
Hi Achim,
The engine looks great! I have also made many assembly fixtures for soldering pieces together. It's better than ruining work that has taken many hours of work. It's strange that the smallest taps and dies you can get is M1.6. Over here in Imperial land I can get all the way down to M1.0x.25.
gbritnell


Hi George, thank you very much.


I think there is a kind of misunderstanding.
My intention was to express, that the from Roger mentioned size M 1,5 is not common and not to by of the shelf here.
M 1,6 and M 1,4, also down to M 1, as mentioned above is no problem.


Specially in my case, the set of M 1,6 taps is available in my tools box, but no smaller sizes so far.


Waiting for the next pictures of your "yellow mini monster".


Stay safe.
 
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Craig DeShong on April 18, 2020, 11:44:57 PM
Hi Achem.  Your engine looks outstanding.  I’ll agree in that making fixtures to assist difficult tasks is tedious but as we can see from the result here, it’s well worth the effort. 
 :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 19, 2020, 08:46:18 AM
Hi Craig, thanks for watching and the friendly comments.
And yes, fixtures are mostly more work as the parts they are supporting.
Can be seen again in some days, because the fixture for the stairs of my service platform is under design currently.



Next to, the covers for the fake cleanout doors.
Another job for the CNC mill.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: scc on April 19, 2020, 10:47:55 AM
Looking good Achim :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn:   Terry
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 19, 2020, 07:49:08 PM
Hi Terry, thank you very much.
I am following your slide valve mill engine with interest.


Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: scc on April 19, 2020, 09:13:21 PM
Cheers Achim,  I didn't think anyone was :)      Terry
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Craig DeShong on April 19, 2020, 09:24:45 PM
Very clever, I would not have thought of doing the covers this way but I can see where it made holding something small while you mill it a breeze and they turned out terrific !
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 20, 2020, 08:27:36 PM
Hi Craig, thanks for watching.


The plotter was busy in the meantime and had cut some gaskets for the water inlet.
In the assembly not really visibly.
And I thought, a fake cover needs also a fake gasket.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Vixen on April 20, 2020, 08:36:32 PM
Achim,

Still following along silently.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

I really like what you are doing with this engine. It's the attention to detail, fake gaskets etc, which adds so much to a replica engine.

This storm cannot last forever, stay strong.

Mike
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 23, 2020, 06:39:53 AM
Hi Mike, thanks for watching and the encouraging words.


In the meantime I have attacked the service platform.
http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,7527.msg213184.html#msg213184 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,7527.msg213184.html#msg213184)
Starting by an 3 mm aluminum sheet metal.
The main job was done by the computer again.
First clamping at the outside and milling the pockets and the two holes for second set up at the mill.
Than clamping the part in the same position by using the just before milled two holes.
Starting the next set of tool paths and OOOOOOOOppppppsssss :Mad:  a broken cutter.
Failure made by the guy at the keyboard.
First path in this session was the roughing out of the shape for the cylinders.
Second part was the finish machining.
As visible in picture 05 the computer has started with the finishing and rammed with 2500 mm/min into the aluminium.
He has got it managed to pass the first pocket but than in the next the fuse of the spindle power line failed.
I have had not recognized, that the roughing out tool path was not on my stick when I have loaded it into the CNC milling machining controller.
Everything happened so fast, that I had no change to hit any stop button.
It took me some time to analyse, that my spindle motor was still fine and only the fuse was gone.
The advantage, now I know that there is a fuse in the CNC controller  which does protect the socket from the spindle motor.


 
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Vixen on April 23, 2020, 10:53:17 AM
Hello Achim,

I made one of those broken cutters, just like you. It was made the same way as you, the guy behind the keyboard asked for a full speed cut (G00) instead of a feed rate cut (G01). It was all over so quickly, faster than I could react.

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10013/P1070691.JPG)

You were lucky the fuse protected the spindle motor

This storm cannot last forever, so stay strong

Mike
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 23, 2020, 12:57:49 PM
Hi Mike,
yours is definitive nicer.
The design is close to an Christmas tree.  :lolb:

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Craig DeShong on April 23, 2020, 08:03:28 PM

(https://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10013/P1070691.JPG)


I’ve made a few of these cranking the handles of the Bridgeport.  Aluminum just loves to gall, you can’t use too much cutting oil.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 24, 2020, 08:33:11 AM
Hi Craig, always good to know that I not the only one who has this special cutters in the scrap box.


After an inspection of my little Proxxon mill and the new adjustment of the spindle, check and a new adjustment of the Z-axis, I have given it another trial.
Finally with the result as originally expected.


Now it is time for the handrail.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: yogi on April 24, 2020, 01:09:43 PM
Looks fantastic Achim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
The platform is going to add another level of detail to the engine.   :popcorn:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Chipmaster on April 24, 2020, 06:52:09 PM
Superb.

Andy
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Rustkolector on April 25, 2020, 04:32:20 AM
Hi Achim,
The service platform is a nice genuine addition to your engine. I have been meaning to add one to my B-M for years. It is even drilled for it. Just haven't gotten around to it.
Jeff
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 25, 2020, 02:07:57 PM
Hi Achim,
The service platform is a nice genuine addition to your engine. I have been meaning to add one to my B-M for years. It is even drilled for it. Just haven't gotten around to it.
Jeff


Hi Jeff, thanks for watching and the friendly words.
When I have made the design of this platform, it was already clear that is has to be done immediately, otherwise it will end as one of these always postponed part of  a project.
So that was the reason why I have started it before the piston job.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 25, 2020, 02:18:00 PM
Yogi, Andy thanks for watching and the friendly comments.


Some rail stanchions are made in the meantime also.
A small fixture was necessary  for an easy hole drilling.
Two of the stanchions are supporting the stair rail also and do need an extra hole.
Also possible with this simple fixture.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on April 25, 2020, 06:25:45 PM
I am beginning to think that CNC means you can make mistakes faster  ::)  I do like all the details on these models of prototype engines  :praise2: Mine tend to be all about function and little about appearance  :-\
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 26, 2020, 06:30:08 AM
I am beginning to think that CNC means you can make mistakes faster  ::) 


Hi Roger, Thanks, and I do 100% agree.
On the other side you will learn faster also.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 26, 2020, 06:42:49 AM
Next little progress with the rail stanchions.
The over stock material has been parted  off and the final finish was made.
Everything soft soldered together with a plumber soldering paste.
It is very easy to get a little paste in place with a wooden toothpick, also in very small holes.
The relevant places at the rail has been tin plated in advance, than the stanchions pushed over this place and heated with a soft flame.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: zeeprogrammer on April 26, 2020, 02:29:08 PM
That looks wonderful!  :ThumbsUp:

What's the diameter of the railings?
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: scc on April 26, 2020, 04:26:15 PM
At least I feel safe now as I inspect this lovely engine close up :praise2:   Can't wait for the stairs / ladder so I can get down.       Terry
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Kim on April 26, 2020, 04:31:39 PM
Beautiful work on those fine details, Achim! I love watching you work!  :popcorn: :popcorn:
Kim
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 26, 2020, 05:18:04 PM
That looks wonderful!  :ThumbsUp:

What's the diameter of the railings?


Hi Carl, thanks.


I assume George (Britnell) would say, "Oh it is thick, 2 mm "


Good luck with your further action with the Sherlines.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 26, 2020, 05:21:48 PM
At least I feel safe now as I inspect this lovely engine close up :praise2:   Can't wait for the stairs / ladder so I can get down.       Terry


Hi Terry, thank you very much.
The stairs / ladder is under design.
My target is to soft solder all these nearly 30 parts in one operation in the discounter oven.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 26, 2020, 05:23:35 PM
Beautiful work on those fine details, Achim! I love watching you work!  :popcorn: :popcorn:
Kim


Hi Kim, thanks.


I am following you locomotive build quietly.
You have made a big progress in you fabrication department.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 27, 2020, 01:37:44 PM
Hi everybody,
as already announced, here the design of the fixture for the stairs/ladder soldering.
Sorry for the quick and dirty exploded view, no fine tuning, made by only one lazy click.
Hopefully I will get it managed this way, to do a proper oven soldering.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: MJM460 on April 27, 2020, 11:41:36 PM
Hi Achim, still following along this amazing build.

I don’t know where the “quick and dirty” Came from, that jig for the stairs is a piece of art in itself.

Great progress on a beautiful detail.

MJM460
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Craig DeShong on April 28, 2020, 01:00:04 AM
A him, very nice.  I live the detail you’re putting I. This model.  It really stands out and makes it extraordinary.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 02, 2020, 07:45:47 AM
MJM460 and Craig, thanks for watching and given friendly comments.


In the meantime the computer and the CNC mill have been busy again and the fixture is nearly ready to use.
One part missing only, this is the flat bar under the steps which will connect all other part of the jig also.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on May 02, 2020, 09:27:51 PM
The jig looks almost nice enough to be part of the build Achim  :ThumbsUp:
and I think it is a wise move to do the beauty parts before the engine can run - I would never get any further if I'm satisfied with how well it runs ....

Per
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 03, 2020, 07:03:46 AM
Hi Per, thanks. Hopefully it will run some day.......


Time to start the real steps now, because I think  Terry  is still waiting to get down again.


My pattern for the angle of the side pillar, a half cut drawing.
The small flanges for the steps were milled by the computer and the CNC mill.
16 of plus set up parts, so the risk of human failures was minimizes.
Finlay everything ready for the soldering.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on May 03, 2020, 06:10:30 PM
That's quite a structure  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 05, 2020, 08:07:23 AM
Roger, thanks.


Next part of the stairs story.
Everything disassembled and cleaned.
I have used standard plumber soft soldering paste for the soldering.
In the last minute I have changed my mind also, instead of using the discounter over, I felt it is easier to use my little torch with a smooth and soft flame.
The final polishing was easy done with a Dremel an this flexible discs (Detail Abrasive Brush), from Dremel also.
This discs are available in three different grades, 36, 120 and 220.
The 220 is good enough to get rid of the solder without any big abrasion of the brass.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: MJM460 on May 05, 2020, 08:46:06 AM
Hi Achim, you have done an amazing job of those stairs and all their detail.  The handrails should be easy now.

Was there any reason you decided on the torch instead of the oven?

MJM460

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 05, 2020, 09:45:13 AM
Hi Achim, you have done an amazing job of those stairs and all their detail.  The handrails should be easy now.

Was there any reason you decided on the torch instead of the oven?

MJM460


Hi MJM460, the only reason was time.
It was late at this day and I did not want to wait another 60 Minutes until the oven is preheated, so I have made an attempt with the torch and that was going quite well also.


But just written in the thread of Georges road grader, my stairs are a heavy metal construction against his brilliant job there.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Kim on May 05, 2020, 05:00:31 PM
Gorgeous job on the stairs, Achim!  You did an amazing job with the soldering & cleanup.  That's a lot of work there and it looks great!
Kim
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Johnmcc69 on May 05, 2020, 06:15:47 PM
 :ThumbsUp:
 Beautiful results! Well worth the effort of making that fixture!

 John
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Plani on May 06, 2020, 04:34:44 PM
I've been following quietly and enjoyed your build very much so far.

Keep up the great work  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Plani
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: scc on May 06, 2020, 09:20:10 PM
wonderful job on the ladder :ThumbsUp:   I'll be able to get down soon :Jester:       Terry
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 07, 2020, 06:22:47 AM
Kim, John, Plani, Terry thank you very much for watching and the friendly and encouraging comments.
Good to know that you are all following my progress with this build.


We have a service platform and some stairs now. Both has to be connected to make the final handrails at the stairs.
The connection are two simple holes drilled under 20° drilled from the bottom into the platform.
The lower fixation of the stairs are two 2 mm pins in the base plate, this will be the same concept also in the later to be made final base plate.
To get the right position for these 2 holes, I put two 2 mm grub screws into the the lower end of the pillars and with some pressure the position was marked in the plywood.
Stairs are fixed now, read to bent the handrails from 2 mm brass now.
As in real life, one try and error, but this was a good pattern to do it right next time.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: crueby on May 07, 2020, 03:44:59 PM
Railings and stairs look fantastic! 
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Dave Otto on May 07, 2020, 04:57:44 PM
Hi Achim

The railing, platform and stairs certainly gives one a better idea how large the original engine is; very nice work on these detail parts, they look great!


Dave
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: scc on May 07, 2020, 08:36:35 PM
They are great :ThumbsUp:   I have got down at last :Lol:  A beautiful structure.     Terry
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Don1966 on May 08, 2020, 04:08:42 PM
Awesome work Achim.....  :Love:



 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 09, 2020, 06:36:05 AM
Railings and stairs look fantastic!


Hi Chris, thanks.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 09, 2020, 06:38:48 AM
Hi Achim

The railing, platform and stairs certainly gives one a better idea how large the original engine is; very nice work on these detail parts, they look great!


Dave


Hi Dave, thank  you.
Thinking about the relationship of power and size will reflect the development which was possible in the last 100 years..   
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 09, 2020, 06:39:33 AM
They are great :ThumbsUp:   I have got down at last :Lol:  A beautiful structure.     Terry


Hi Terry, good to know you could escape now.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 09, 2020, 07:00:24 AM
Awesome work Achim.....  :Love:



 :cheers:
Don


Hi Don, thank you.
One of your recommendation of last summer will be part oft the next step, the last part of the service platform chapter, the expanded metal  for the floor of the platform.
Cut with a little disc and the Dremel to raw size  and than some fine adjustment with the little Chinese belt sander which Don has introduced last summer.
A very nice tool for any kind of flat grinding in the shop. 
The yellow cap was made with my 3D printer. It should protect the e-motor from grinding dust. So if it will die, than more likely by heat only. ;D
Next pictures are showing the complete overall impression of the engine now.



Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 10, 2020, 01:10:24 PM
Hi everybody,
a new chapter, cooling circuit.
The pump is of my store.
Last time, when I have made the pump for the Opposed Twin, I have made a batch of three.
Nearly finished machined.
Inlet and outlet pipes are missing, the pulley and the outlet machining in the pump housing also.
A proper pedestal, allowing some adjustable belt tension is missing also.
So the CAD has to be started.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on May 11, 2020, 10:13:10 AM
Coming along nicely  :praise2:  :wine1: Where are the cast pipe fittings from? I need to try a centrifgal pump next, I have gear and diaphragm versions  :thinking:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 11, 2020, 12:40:44 PM
Coming along nicely  :praise2: :wine1: Where are the cast pipe fittings from? I need to try a centrifgal pump next, I have gear and diaphragm versions  :thinking:


Hi Roger, thanks.


Cast fittings are from PM.
https://www.pmmodelengines.com/shop/pipe-fittings/unmachined/casting-trees/ (https://www.pmmodelengines.com/shop/pipe-fittings/unmachined/casting-trees/)
Also available in the U.K.
https://www.forest-classics.co.uk/pm-research/pm-fittings (https://www.forest-classics.co.uk/pm-research/pm-fittings)
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Craig DeShong on May 12, 2020, 02:27:41 PM
I love the detail you’re adding to this engine.  It's making this model so extraordinary.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 12, 2020, 06:48:26 PM
Hi Craig, thanks for the friendly comments.


The new pedestal is now part of the CAD model, it is adjustable by +/- 2,5 mm, 5 mm over all.
I also took the opportunity to get everything virtually in situ, so that I was able to get a belt on the pulleys.
The analysis of the sketch in Fusion 360 has shown a virtual length of 350,6 mm for the belt.
This type of flat belts are available in 10 mm steps, so I have been very close to the next stock size with my first shoot.
So the belt is on order now.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 13, 2020, 03:22:16 PM
Hi everybody,
this chapter should get the head line "Playing with CAD Software".
My intention was to get an impression of the final engine with some color.
So I have given the different parts and assemblies a black or grey painting.
To have in mind also, that it will be powder coated and so some special split lines should be taken in account also.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 13, 2020, 03:25:32 PM
... and part two.
At the very end two clicks and the paint´is gone again, but everything saved in an older Version of the Fusion file.
I do like this CAD world very much.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: kuhncw on May 14, 2020, 02:49:43 AM
Hi Achim,

Thanks for a very interesting build thread.  Very nice work.

What is the material, supplier, etc. for the belt you ordered to drive the coolant pump?



Chuck
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 14, 2020, 06:57:35 PM
Hi Achim,

Thanks for a very interesting build thread.  Very nice work.

What is the material, supplier, etc. for the belt you ordered to drive the coolant pump?



Chuck


Hi Chuck, thanks for watching.
The flat belt is available in Germany under the name "T150".
Here a link to a company in Italy, I am sure they will have a sales organisation in the US also.
https://megadynegroup.com/usa/products/flat-belts/rubber-megaflat (https://megadynegroup.com/usa/products/flat-belts/rubber-megaflat)
May be you will have a look at suppliers which are selling bearings, O-ring and lip seals also.
My belt has the size 350x5x1 mm.
The suppliers do have it as a kind of tube and it will be cut of to the required width.
But may be much easier for you, here a sample from McMaster-Carr, similar stuff.
https://www.mcmaster.com/flat-belts/flat-belts-6/ (https://www.mcmaster.com/flat-belts/flat-belts-6/)



Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: kuhncw on May 14, 2020, 07:53:17 PM
Achim,

Thank you very much for the belt information.  I'll check it out.

Regards,

Chuck
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 16, 2020, 03:38:29 PM
Hi everybody,
next step, the adjustable stand for the water pump and the fixation of the unit at the engine first time.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: kuhncw on May 16, 2020, 05:16:55 PM
Achim,

That is a nice design for an adjustable mount.  Thanks.  I plan to copy it.

Regards,

Chuck
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 17, 2020, 12:21:48 PM
Hi Chuck, you are welcome to copy the design.




Sample assembly of the water pump.
The belt was not running in the middle of the crank shaft pulley as expected and first I did not understand why.
Crank shaft and pump shafts are parallel and the drive pulley at the crank shaft has a spherical surface.
I took me some time to recognize that I have done a not so good design job.
The belt has had a collision with the pedestal of the engine. Immediately I have had a look into the CAD model and yes same over there.
So may be next time I should use the CAD for it where is very useful, to check all parts of what you have done virtually at the screen.
In the last picture of my "playing with colours" thread, it is already clear to see, but unfortunately not to me, at that stage.


O.K. lets change something. Two options, to cut of the edge of the pedestal or to lift the pump.
The last one seems to me the more elegant solution, so the pump has get a pedestal extension by 10 mm in Z.
Now the problem is solved and the plumber can start to make the water pipe from the pump to the engine inlet.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on May 17, 2020, 09:25:35 PM
Ups - at least you found it before plumbing the whole show .... and it just shows that the Interference Check in the CAD program is a very useful feature if used .... We have all been there ....

Nice progress nonetheless  :cheers:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Dave Otto on May 18, 2020, 12:52:33 AM
Nice work around Achim, no one will ever know......or will we?  :Lol:

Dave
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 23, 2020, 07:48:48 AM
Ups - at least you found it before plumbing the whole show .... and it just shows that the Interference Check in the CAD program is a very useful feature if used .... We have all been there ....

Nice progress nonetheless  :cheers:


Hi Per, thanks.


I took the opportunity to get a view into this collision check tool in Fusion360 now.
Sure a strong and useful tool, but I think it is for more complex situations useful than my belt here against the pedestal.
If you see the picture below, the place/contact is clearly marked and recognized.
But to be honest, it was also clearly possible to recognize it by a direct view into this area.
So I still see here the human factor as the main reason for the failure.
 
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 23, 2020, 07:53:40 AM
Nice work around Achim, no one will ever know......or will we?  :Lol:

Dave


Hi Dave, I know you all will forget it.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 23, 2020, 07:59:27 AM
Another small detail done, the crank case breather.
Done very easily and mainly by a 3/16"  90° elbow casting from PM.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 24, 2020, 10:27:18 AM
Hi everybody,
another, for me tricky issue, the Hall sensor and its adjustable position.
Doug Kelley recommended to give the ignition impulse by the crank shaft and not by the cam shaft.
The reason I could imagine is the wiring.
The distributor, another option to place the Hall sensor like the Snow engine or other model engines use it, is far away at the top of the engine at cylinder #4.
A high voltage cable has to go up there already, to combine this with the cable from the sensor, sure is not the best idea.
So the wiring should be done in two separated cable routes, also not a good idea for appearance.
I assume this all was the reason for Doug to use the fly wheel with two magnets as the master for ignition timing.
The only other information from his drawings is, that his engine is working by a ignition set up with 5° before BTDC. 
So I had to switch on the CAD and to design a adjustable bracket for the Hall sensor.
The result could be seen below at the pictures.
It is designed for CNC manufacturing and the CAM is done also already.
Something about 27.300 lines of G-code, picture of the simulation attached below.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on May 27, 2020, 10:48:04 AM
I can see the logic in triggering from the flywheel rather than mixing the LT and HT wiring especially when using a Hall sensor. Conventional contatct points are much less at risk from stray voltages.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 27, 2020, 06:59:09 PM
The computer has machined the sensor bracket in the meantime.


Hi Roger as you mentioned it, sure the right way to do it.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Don1966 on May 28, 2020, 04:36:09 PM
Still with you Achim lovely work enjoying it.




 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 30, 2020, 03:51:42 PM
Thank you Don.


Next task, a hole to the sensor into the pedestal and two holes in the fly wheel for the in brass bushes fixed magnets.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 31, 2020, 07:15:52 AM
Hi everybody, I have started to give it some color now and the spray booth was pulled out of the shelf.


That means, that some fiddling things has to be sorted out also, i.e. position and fixation of the ignition system.

A bracket, to keep the AA cells in position, but changeable from below has been designed and 3D printed.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on May 31, 2020, 07:50:04 AM
Very neatly laid out  :praise2: I like your material storage racks  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 31, 2020, 10:05:06 AM
Roger, thank you very much.


6 weeks ago I have made this here also for bars and tubes up to 1 meter length.
Very useful If you can see it all with nearly one view.





Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on May 31, 2020, 10:20:24 PM
Nice result Achim  :ThumbsUp:

It looks like you are using a "Meat Thermometer" in the oven with the powder coated subjects - how do you use it excatly ?
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on June 01, 2020, 06:30:40 AM
Hi Per, thanks.

This discounter oven thermometer will be used to check the general temp inside the oven.
If gives me an idea about the conditions inside the oven after preheating, something between 180°C and 200°C is a good value to start.
The coated part should get a temperature of 180°C for 15 minutes.
Before any coating, it is important to get any oil out of the holes in a part.
For this job another discounter offer is used, a small ultrasonic cleaner.
Some hot water with 2 to 3 drops of dishwashing liquid are very helpful here.
To check the real temperature of the parts in the oven and during cooling down, I do use an Infrared-Laser-Thermometer.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Jo on June 01, 2020, 12:08:10 PM
Hi Achim,

 :facepalm2: When I saw the thumbnail view I thought your Ultrasonic cleaner it looked like something from the bathroom in your workshop. I am pleased was wrong  ::)

Jo
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: kvom on June 01, 2020, 01:04:21 PM
I assume that the oven job is powder coating.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on June 01, 2020, 09:35:21 PM
Thank you for your answer Achim  :ThumbsUp:

I haven't used a thermometer in the oven for powder coating ... and it is probably stupid of me to trust the oven as the one in the kitchen is 25C below what you think you set it for ..... so I will try to remember next time I plan on doing "some painting".
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on June 02, 2020, 05:25:42 AM
Hi Achim,

 :facepalm2: When I saw the thumbnail view I thought your Ultrasonic cleaner it looked like something from the bathroom in your workshop. I am pleased was wrong  ::)

Jo


Hi Jo, you are right, this thumbnail has the potential to create some irritation.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on June 02, 2020, 05:26:59 AM
I assume that the oven job is powder coating.


Hi Kirk, yes the parts are powder coated.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on June 14, 2020, 07:17:28 PM
Hi everybody,
some more coating was done.
One door does not have the best surface, there is a faultiy aluminium soldering, a JB weld layer, some thing I do not know  but under temperature it is coming out of the surface.....
But I will keep it as it is.
The real engine is also not perfect at every surface.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Don1966 on June 15, 2020, 02:51:11 AM
Awwwww a man and his engine lovely work Achim. Can’t wait to see this engine running beautiful fab work..... :Love:



 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on June 21, 2020, 01:10:20 PM
Don Thanks, good to know you are still following along.


Some more color to some parts.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: gbritnell on June 21, 2020, 02:43:51 PM
Hi Achim,
Excellent work! LIke Don, I can't wait to see it finished and running.
gbritnell
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on June 21, 2020, 02:52:08 PM
Hi George, thank you very much.
I am back in work life nearly full time, so not so much shop time at the moment.
Like to say I will need some more time for the first pops.
Currently doing the coating of the cylinders and some CAD work for further cooling and general lay out.



Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Dave Otto on June 21, 2020, 05:06:52 PM
That sure is looking nice Achim! you seem to have the powder coating process pretty well hammered out. :ThumbsUp:
Didn't you mention a while back that you pretty close to retirement?

Dave
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on June 21, 2020, 05:28:33 PM
Dave Thank you very much.
Retirement is scheduled for end of November now.
This powder coating gives in my eyes a very nice surface for this model engines.
But if you have to take care about special places and lets say functionality contacts, it is time consuming to do make a proper covering.
i.e. the fly wheel.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: crueby on June 21, 2020, 06:23:48 PM
Flywheel is looking great!  And congratulations on the upcoming retirement, you have the hobby part well in hand.
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on June 22, 2020, 07:32:23 AM
That's some neat precision masking  :praise2: The powder coating looks excellent  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on June 27, 2020, 07:21:39 PM
Thank You Roger.


Here the result of the fly wheel coating.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on June 28, 2020, 02:01:43 PM
Hi everybody, some more parts done.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Johnmcc69 on June 28, 2020, 03:01:51 PM
 :ThumbsUp:
 Great looking parts Achim! Nice finish on them, those flywheels are beautiful!

 John
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on July 01, 2020, 06:45:07 AM
Hi John, thanks for visiting and the friendly comment.

Next job the coating of the cylinder.
So some more parts for the masking are necessary.

Finally a first draft of the further cooling system.
The cylindrical body, pending there free in space should simulate a possible position of a fuel cell.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: cnr6400 on July 01, 2020, 03:28:24 PM
Engine's looking great Achim!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Don1966 on July 01, 2020, 11:23:59 PM
Ahhhh! A man and his paint. Beautifully done Achim. The engine is awesome looking you just got to love the effort put into it....... :Love:




 :drinking-41:
Don
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: kvom on July 02, 2020, 02:29:13 AM
I'm a convert to powder coat now myself.  It all looks good.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on July 04, 2020, 04:28:36 PM
cnr6400, Don and Kirk thanks for watching and the friendly comments.


Kirk, good luck for your first coating attempts.


Now we do have the point for no excuses anymore.
The crank case has to be done.
Due to the, in my understanding nice press fit of the 2 crank shaft halves in the middle bearing, I want to avoid any disassembly of this unit.
A fixture to keep all cylinder in situ has been made for the disassembly.
Some more parts for a proper masking had been necessary.
Last picture, the crank case shorty before the total disassembly and cleaning for the tape masking.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on July 04, 2020, 04:44:38 PM
Nice progress Achim  :ThumbsUp:

Careful with those masking fixtures - I had the frame for my offroader back from powder coating and it has the oil tank integrated in the frame, so I used some purpose made 'stoppers' - and though they worked fine, the 'paint' had flowed nicely all over the frame and those stoppers -> the 'paint' broke a few places I really didn't want it to do while removing the stoppers. I did try to use a stanley knife around the stoppers to be the one that decides where the paint would break and it almost went to plan, but not quite.

If I should do that one again, I think I would use the same type of tape you use and wrap it around the stoppers  - though that still might give you a raised edge at those locations  :thinking:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: kvom on July 04, 2020, 08:13:46 PM
I actually did powder coat my previous engine (Muncaster grasshopper), but I've seen some videos that make me think I can do a lot better.  Picking a color for the Greene is one problem as I have no idea how they were painted originally.  The one in Rhode Island has several coats of paint, none of which are likely original.  The one in Detroit is unpainted.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on July 04, 2020, 08:39:55 PM
Hi Kirk, may be this could give you an Inspiration.
http://dampfundmehr.de/HP/green/im_bau/green_0.htm
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on July 05, 2020, 08:39:38 AM
Hi everybody, next job was the masking of the big holes.
Some masking of the door frames and hinges.
Finally the masking of the lower case opening.
Coating, as always, was a 1,5 minutes job.
Getting rid of all this tape again and the reassembly could start.


Per, in the very first beginning of my powder coating experience, I have made the water pump for my snow engine with body and cover assembled.
It glued together, like using a good epoxy glue.
It took me hours and the usage of an hot air gun to split it again.
Since this experiences, I am always using a layer or two of the green tape at the split faces.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on July 05, 2020, 09:12:34 PM
Knowing what is likely to go wrong, can be a very helpful knowledge and it looks like (and by explanation) you are well aware of the potential pitfalls - though getting that experience is usually not nice ....

Great result Achim - looks like you nailed it  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on July 06, 2020, 05:37:15 PM
Excellent  :praise2:  :praise2:  :wine1: Do you have an idea how thick the coating is, 0.05mm?
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on July 06, 2020, 06:54:47 PM
Excellent  :praise2: :praise2: :wine1: Do you have an idea how thick the coating is, 0.05mm?

Hi Roger thanks.
Some times ago I have tried to measure it.
Before and after and the result was something between 0,01 and 0,03 mm.

In the meantime the crank case is reassembled.
And also the service platform and the stairs are done.

Here a quick view around the engine.


H2nZTe8LMN8
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Don1966 on July 07, 2020, 12:20:21 AM
 :Love:


 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: scc on July 07, 2020, 04:51:25 PM
Very NICE :cheers:        Terry
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on July 25, 2020, 08:10:33 PM
Don, Terry thanks for visiting and friendly comments.


Next steps are prepared in the CAD.
A rack for the radiator and fuel cell and a switch board.
The final dimension of the base plate is defined now, also
To get it all in situ a new base plate has to be made.
So a good opportunity to define the floor design.
After making several floors with tiles, I wanted to try something new.
This time it will be wood. Mahogany wood, strips 10x1,5 mm.
The new base plate was purchased in the local hardware store.
Cut out and first wire duct already milled into the plate.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on July 26, 2020, 11:35:11 AM
Hi everybody, the new base plate with the second milled wire duct is finished.
This one is for the high voltage wire, going later up to the distributor at the cylinder head.
The new base plate is 50 mm longer than the temporary one, because is has to host the cooler/fuel cell rack and later the coolant tank now also.
The width is, hopefully, adjusted in the graduation of the 10 mm mahogany strips.
Movement of the engine to its new home, follower by the water pump pedestal.
Some new material has arrived over the last week.
Finally some strips thrown to the base plate to get a first impression how it will look like.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on July 28, 2020, 12:09:16 PM
Looking good  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1: Is the fire extnguisher ready for when you glue the strips down  ;)
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on July 28, 2020, 01:40:47 PM
Looking good  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :wine1: Is the fire extnguisher ready for when you glue the strips down  ;)


Hi Roger,
yes it is, but no "Arbeitsunfall", job is done.
I have seen this fire extinguishers a couple of weeks ago at e-bay and could not resit, because they are in the right scale.
The first two pictures below do show the floor in our canteen at work.
My floor here was inspired by this.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on August 02, 2020, 01:54:27 PM
Hi everybody, next to do, the construction to carry the radiator and later also the fuel cell.
Made by some brass bar stock.
This ceramic perforated plate was very helpful during the entire job.
The hole pattern a job for the CNC mill again.
Everything was soft soldered.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on August 02, 2020, 08:52:48 PM
Interesting approach Achim  :ThumbsUp:  where did you got the ceramic material from ?

I forgot to mention the nice woodwork - are you planning to give it any protective layer, like lacquer ?
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on August 03, 2020, 06:07:50 AM
Hi Per, the soldering plate was purchased some time ago at this dealer https://www.fohrmann.com/en/soldering-plate.html.
I have seen it at a show in his display and could not resist.
Until last weekend it spent some years under the bench and now I can confirm it is a very useful tool.   


Concerning the finish of the floor, there is a plan.
During the next stages of the build it should stay like it is and collect some scratches and later hopefully some oil and fuel also.
If this has happened than I like to seal it with a one component resin, like it will be used at wooden boats.
Two different samples are ordered currently to find the best looking.
A glossy type is available, but this it not what I like here.
I think a kind of dull or satin-finished type will be better in this case.
Some experiments will follow.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on August 03, 2020, 09:41:06 PM
Thank you for the link - not expensive at all  :ThumbsUp:

I'm with you about a blank floor will look wrong here - it's a workplace, not a posh exhibition  ;D
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Tonyr on August 04, 2020, 11:36:22 AM
Hi Achim.

The engine is looking really good.

Tony
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on August 04, 2020, 06:32:23 PM
Hi Tony, thanks.


The last pictures of the soldering and were we are today.
I have learned to cook the flux above the soldering wire, so the wire will stay where it should be, in the corner.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Dave Otto on August 06, 2020, 12:27:50 AM
Coming along nicely Achim!

Dave
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: FKreider on August 14, 2020, 02:37:18 AM
Hello Achim, fantastic work so far on this engine!

Its is my dream and long term goal to build this model engine as well. Maybe this has been addressed in your build thread in the past however are you willing to share your 3D model? Specifically I am interested in adding the platform and stairs to the model that I build.

Best Regards,
Frank.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on August 23, 2020, 08:08:39 AM
Dave, thank you very much.


Frank, the design of the Bruce Macbeth engine is copyright protected by the Village Press publisher, so may be not a good idea to share it.
The service platform is my own design, so no problem to share it.
The CAD model is drawn in Fusion360 under a private licence so I can do an export as a Fusion ZIP container (.f3z) only.
If this will help, let me know, please.


By the way, I will mention it before Jo came aware, I have seen you are registered to MEM in 2018 already, but until today we have never seen an introduction.
May be you will find the time to give us some information about your preferred model engineering activities.
Could it be that you are involved in steam locos ?
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on August 23, 2020, 12:32:20 PM
Hi everybody, a little progress with the fuel cell rack was made in the meantime.
The complete rack for radiator and fuel is fixed now.
Time to make the fuel cell itself.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: FKreider on August 30, 2020, 01:40:07 AM
Dave, thank you very much.


Frank, the design of the Bruce Macbeth engine is copyright protected by the Village Press publisher, so may be not a good idea to share it.
The service platform is my own design, so no problem to share it.
The CAD model is drawn in Fusion360 under a private licence so I can do an export as a Fusion ZIP container (.f3z) only.
If this will help, let me know, please.


By the way, I will mention it before Jo came aware, I have seen you are registered to MEM in 2018 already, but until today we have never seen an introduction.
May be you will find the time to give us some information about your preferred model engineering activities.
Could it be that you are involved in steam locos ?

Hello Achim, yes you are correct I joined the board a while back however I only recently started posting due to now having some projects to post about as I am finally making progress with this hobby having acquired some machinery over the last couple of years. I went ahead and started an introductory thread:

http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php?topic=9912.msg224734#msg224734

I am curious as to how you knew I was involved with the locomotive side of the hobby?  :headscratch: ;D

Regarding the service platform; I also do my design work in Fusion360 and I have started some of the Bruce MacBeth engine (only crankcase and cylinders at this point.) so any files that work with fusion are fine with me!  8)

Best Regards,
Frank K.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on September 19, 2020, 03:25:44 PM
Hi everybody, a little progress was made in the meantime.
First time for me that I made the bosses for the fuel cell this way by a CNC milling.
For me it was a great experience.
Next to do, some Epoxy glue and the oven.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on September 20, 2020, 06:05:31 PM
When the glue was cured a sample assembly.
And some ideas to improve it.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Chipmaster on September 20, 2020, 06:49:35 PM
Splendid  :ThumbsUp:

Andy
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on September 27, 2020, 05:15:14 PM
Hi Andy, thanks.


The reality is now closer to the CAD model again.
And the rack for the water reservoir is started, also.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Don1966 on September 27, 2020, 09:27:14 PM
Love it Achim a work of art......  :Love:

 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Craig DeShong on September 28, 2020, 09:52:20 PM
Hi Achim

I haven't stopped by this thread for a while, it somehow fell off my "radar", and it appears I've missed plenty.  Some really fabulous work here.  I'm a real fan.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Craig
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on September 30, 2020, 11:45:51 AM
That's some good progress on the ancillaries  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:  I hope that the step ladder has been safety checked  :stir:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on December 07, 2020, 07:11:39 AM
Hi Don, Craig and Roger, thanks for watching and the friendly comments.


Time has going on and my very last working day in the company is now a week ago.
So I am also a new member of the club of old age pensioner, these people which I know only saying " Sorry no time" so far.
Will see how I will develop in my case.


Here and now, I will continue to report about the small things been done so far without showing it here.


The water tank has getting more shape.
First time I have tried this blue tape and super glue.


 
 
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: MJM460 on December 07, 2020, 11:15:04 AM
Hi Achem,

Congratulations on your retirement.  I am sure you will find your time fully occupied, and with luck, even include some time for engine making.

Good to see the last details taking shape on your beautiful engine.

MJM460


Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Kim on December 08, 2020, 06:04:31 AM
Congratulations on your retirement, Achim!
Hope you enjoy your well earned rest and relaxation! :)

Kim
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on December 08, 2020, 06:51:31 AM
MJM460, Kim thank you very much. I will try to learn to be retired as soon as possible.


Next steps with the water reservoir.
A hole to get the water out, a nozzle will follow here later.
The self made design with the later hidden socket screws was really tight.


Here is also my very new toy in action, a 3D Finder, in a (nearly) hobby pricing range.
This is a marvelous tool. It comes with some macros, already finished to implement into my CNC software (Eding CNC).
In this case the rectangle function was chosen. The program will touch all 4  edges and guide the spindle into the calculated center of the part.
This position will be recognized now automatically as the center of the work piece for the following operation.
So the cam program can also be set into the center of the part what could have big advantages in some cases.
If somebody has interest, do not hesitate to ask. A video of the first attempt is available.


Finally the reservoir in situ.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: gbritnell on December 08, 2020, 12:13:06 PM
A very nice setup for the tanks and cooling.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on December 09, 2020, 06:51:26 AM
Hi George, thanks for popping in and the friendly comment.
Shortly I have had another idea for the attachments, I will show it later.


Cooling circle next step, the inlet pipe to the pump.
Three attempts until I have got a, for me,  acceptable result.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: gary.a.ayres on December 09, 2020, 10:31:51 PM
Some real quality on view here!
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Dave Otto on December 10, 2020, 12:49:25 AM
Hi Achim

Glad to see you working on your engine, and congratulations on your retirement! Hopefully lots of quality shop time in your future.

The engine is looking great!
Dave
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on December 10, 2020, 11:21:19 AM
Hi Gary, Dave, thanks for watching, good to know that you are all there.


As already mentioned before, some weeks ago in the late evening I have had a look to the engine and the idea was born, there should be some barrels/drums standing around.
So the first action was, looking at ebay for RC drums scale 1:10. Lots of them could be found there and I recognized very quickly they are all 3D printed.
That reminds me that there is a 3D printer under my the bench too.
Searching at grabcad and thingiverse showing a lot of available cad models/stl files already.
I have been attracted by these combination of 4 barrels very much, because they looked like drums which has been really in use so far.
Coming as a stl file it was no problem to scale them in Fusion360 and export it as new stl file for the printer.
By luck it was possible to position them diagonal on my bed plate.
But unfortunately immediately after starting the print I recognized there is something wrong.
The first layer refused to get in proper contact with the bed plate.
Each barrel has had a nice outer circle but the surface of the whole bottom of the barrels was a mess only.
Some days earlier at that week I have printed something without any problem, so I have been nearly sure it could not be a problem of the 3D printer.
After an examination of the contact surface of the object to the bed plate in Cura, I have found the situation as shown at the second picture.
Here is exactly visible, what the printer did. The only really contact of the model to the bed plate is given by the light red outer circle of the drums only, the surface in middle has no contact.
So another learning session was necessary, how to convert a mesh into a solid body. Some youtube tutorials has been very helpful there.
The result is shown at the next picture. There we have the original small stl mesh, overlapped by the scaled solid model.
Now I have modified the bottom side of each barrel by adding another 0,3 mm plain material and joined it the the body.
Now the printing was possible without any further problems.
It was also a little adventure to split the model of 4 barrels into 4 single bodies, but at the end successfully also.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: gbritnell on December 10, 2020, 11:47:07 AM
I like the dents in the barrels. It gives it a more realistic appearance.
gbritnell
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on December 10, 2020, 12:09:54 PM
Great to see you back Achim and con gratulations on retirement - I still have some six and a half years left ....

Nice update and like George I really like the "beulen" (dents) in the barrels  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on December 11, 2020, 07:49:48 AM
Hi George, Per thanks for watching.


The cylinder heads are started in the meantime.
The challenge is shown by the CAD section view below, a hard soldered assembly by the main body and a plug to get the necessary water jacket.
I have purchased a piece of brass with the hope, that 5 pieces of the cylinder heads are already hidden in it.
Some facing has be done as the first step for all.
Followed by machining the round water jacket into the blocks  and the holes with overstock for the valve seats.
A nice job, manged perfectly by the computer for all 4 pieces and the usual set up part.


Yes, the CAD model is not complete, the assy machining of the exhaust outlet still has to be done, red circle.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on December 13, 2020, 09:39:29 AM
Congratulation on your retirement  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: You won't have time to do anything any more  ::)

I guess the models of those barrels were too realistic   ;) Lots of brass swarf and some interesting fabrication to come  :)  :)  :wine1:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on December 13, 2020, 01:29:14 PM

 ;) Lots of brass swarf and some interesting fabrication to come  :) :) :wine1:


Indeed, that is the keyword for the next action.
Again my 3D finder has done the job to catch the center of the pre machined block.
Next pictures showing the final set up for machining.
The different bar stock is used as a spacer only.
Than the computer was allowed to start the chip making mode.
One time tool changing and the hole pattern is dependent on the waterjaket and outer shape.
Ready to clamp the next part of 5.
And the swarf all over.[size=78%] [/size]
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: FKreider on December 15, 2020, 02:33:50 AM
Very nice work as always!
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on December 19, 2020, 03:45:09 PM
Hi Frank, thanks for popping in.


The water jacket covers are made and the cylinder heads are prepared for the soldering operation.
First part is soldered but there is some space to improve, this time I have given lees, but too less silver solder to the part.
The gap is not really filled up complete.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on December 22, 2020, 06:22:18 AM
Hi everybody, as mentioned before the soldering has to be improved, but I wanted to know if this water jacket is really sealed.
Picture 26 is showing the small, not desired gap around the cover after the final machining of the surface.

So a quick an dirty jig was made to get air pressure to the water jacket.
Leak detection spray should give the final answer and I was surprised, that no bubbles could be  seen.
So I will try for the remaining 4 heads to use more silver solder in the process.


Next step was to check the hole pattern.
My fifth cylinder head, the set up part from making all cylinders earlier, is equipped with some studs already, so a good opportunity to check the fit.
That was looking fine so far.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on December 22, 2020, 11:27:01 AM
Nice progress Achim  :ThumbsUp:

I must admit that I'm not sure about the desing of the heads ...  :headscratch: ... but I'm sure I will be wiser when you get closer to the finished items.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on December 22, 2020, 01:35:19 PM
Hi Per, thanks.
Are you struggling about this picture ?
http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7527.0;attach=121584;image

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on December 22, 2020, 04:28:29 PM
Hi Achim

No that one explains it nicely - I had just completely forgoten that you posted it sometime ago  :old:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Don1966 on December 22, 2020, 07:41:28 PM
Always Nice work Achim. If you Suspect leaking one thing I would do is test it at the engine running temperature since there will be some expansion of the metal.


Regards Don
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on December 23, 2020, 06:17:27 AM
Hi Don, good idea, thanks.
Hopefully I will get it managed to do a proper soldering process for the next heads and than there will be no doubt about any leaking anymore.


Since one and half year there is the S/S Sata distributor in my shelf now.
Now I took the opportunity to implement this part into the CAD model.
As delivered it looks horrible.
Functional necessary is the cap only, because there is no Hall or other sensor in it.
So I have to design a much smaller lower part for it, but this will come later.
Main reason for my action here was to research the space around the distributor and it shows what was assumed already.
The old golden engineering rule "Where there is one body there cannot be another" was confirmed.
So I have to redesign the cooling return from the heads to the radiator.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on December 24, 2020, 06:27:12 AM
Hi everybody, here the redesign of my cooling pipes, specially the return to the radiator and water reservoir.
A wooden cover for the water reservoir also is taken shape.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on December 27, 2020, 06:34:23 AM
CAD design is nice, but real parts are better in my eyes.
So it was time to swap to the "brown stuff" and to do some wood work by making the cover for the water reservoir.
A simple jig and starting with 5 x 3 mm strips of wood for the supporting structure.
The next layer some 4 x 4 mm strips.
Everything fixed with wood glue.
Finally painted with some oily wood stain, same I have used for my patio last summer.
The top layer is made by the same mahogany strips I have used for the floor.
Last action missed here, the cut out for the water return pipe, so this pipe should be made next.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on December 28, 2020, 03:28:29 PM
Splendid  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1: I do love all the little details  :)
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on December 30, 2020, 08:03:55 AM
Roger thanks.


Making the water return piping around the water reservoir was the next challenge.
Some adapters for the Chinese computer radiator are necessary.
Here now fixed with some epoxy glue, followed by the pipes prepared in situ. A pressure test has to be made here soon also.
Next to do, the brackets to keep the long tube in position.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on December 31, 2020, 06:17:47 AM

As mentioned before, now the brackets to fix partly the long water return pipe coming from the later to make exhaust manifold/cylinder heads.

I wish you all a happy new year and stay healthy everybody please.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Don1966 on December 31, 2020, 05:30:39 PM
Happy New Years to you Achim and the engine is awesome....... :Love:



 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: derekwarner on January 01, 2021, 12:19:05 AM
Yes, welcome to 2021 Achim [from Australia]  :cheers:

During my apprenticeship 50+ years ago, I spent some time working on maintenance to Cooling Towers.......[huge multi story Towers - 4" NB inlet and outlet pipework - 'Air Blast' water fall type with huge volumes of ambient air blown over the water cascading thru the  labyrinth of wooden slats, so fans, motor V-Belt drives,  replacement wooden slat shell etc]

I was aware of minature closed loop fluid filled PC cooling radiators, however amazed to see  :facepalm: the open loop versions

Maybe a little premature, but will you use a % of glycol or similar, to protect engine or system metals and also reduce the chance of the fluid becoming rancid?

From practical purposes in actual cooling towers, an isolation valve on the inlet side of the tower would allow for maintenance on the tower internals, however also importantly maintaining a head of cooling water in the engine  :ThumbsUp:

Always looking forward to your thread postings

Derek

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 01, 2021, 10:13:07 AM
Yes, welcome to 2021 Achim [from Australia]  :cheers:

During my apprenticeship 50+ years ago, I spent some time working on maintenance to Cooling Towers.......[huge multi story Towers - 4" NB inlet and outlet pipework - 'Air Blast' water fall type with huge volumes of ambient air blown over the water cascading thru the  labyrinth of wooden slats, so fans, motor V-Belt drives,  replacement wooden slat shell etc]

I was aware of minature closed loop fluid filled PC cooling radiators, however amazed to see  :facepalm: the open loop versions

Maybe a little premature, but will you use a % of glycol or similar, to protect engine or system metals and also reduce the chance of the fluid becoming rancid?

From practical purposes in actual cooling towers, an isolation valve on the inlet side of the tower would allow for maintenance on the tower internals, however also importantly maintaining a head of cooling water in the engine  :ThumbsUp:

Always looking forward to your thread postings

Derek


Hi Derek,
happy new year too.
Good to know that you are still following along.


The coolant I am using for all my engines is at the picture below.
It is normal automotive stuff.


Concerning the design of the return pipe it is everything open until now.
There is already an idea to add an additional point of separation, as shown in second picture, inside the red circle.
May be to add her also a valve.
The common steam ball valves for 6 mm pipe with 5 mm pass are to big unfortunately.
They do have outer dimensions from 45 x 45 mm, so I have to design something by my on.
We will see it later, it is a point at the list.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 01, 2021, 10:21:56 AM
Happy New Years to you Achim and the engine is awesome....... :Love:



 :cheers:
Don


Hi Don thanks. Stay safe.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 01, 2021, 10:27:52 AM
Hi everybody,
there has been a visit of some elves. May be friends of Chris´s gang ?
Anyway, the sample assembly is done now, so I have to clean the field only and store the tools under the bench again.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: gbritnell on January 01, 2021, 01:15:27 PM
HI Achim,
A truly outstanding presentation. The engine and all the peripheral components are done to your high standard of work.
Happy New Year and stay safe.
gbritnell
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 03, 2021, 03:39:27 PM
Hi George,
thanks for watching and the friendly comments.
I try to learn from your craftsmanship.




With all the tubes in situ I had to fix the flanges at the tubing now. Some Epoxy glue was used.
To protected the connecting surfaces of both flanges, I have cut some special seals.
The real ones do have the big hole in the middle.


Next pictures are showing the next job to attack.
The hole in the base should be covered by the switch panel in Future.
And the virtual part.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on January 03, 2021, 09:51:06 PM
Thank you Achim and a nice one to you too  :cheers:

You have added so many nice details that I almost lost count one way or the other ....
This has got me to the point that the RED & Black wire to the Fan simply is Not a part of the otherwise amazing display .... but that is just me.

Best wishes

Per
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 04, 2021, 06:17:28 AM
Hi Per thanks.
The whole fan is not confirmed for this display until now.
The computer radiator was delivered together with the fan as an assembly.
At the end, for the functionality it seems to be unlikely that the fan will be necessary.
There are two other options under investigation, shown at the pictures below.
If the fan will be necessary, than any kind of covering, may be from wood will be designed and I will try to hide the wire.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on January 04, 2021, 07:46:11 PM
OK - if you're going this way - how about no screen at all ...?
This would be more in line with it being a kind of Industrial installation .... a naked radiator so to speak.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 05, 2021, 07:02:57 AM
This would be more in line with it being a kind of Industrial installation .... a naked radiator so to speak.


Hi Per, may be this third option will be the very best.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: kvom on January 05, 2021, 01:44:16 PM
Lots of "extras" on this build.  When you were building the stanchions and stairs a few months back I figured that the build was almost done.   :noidea:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 05, 2021, 03:29:22 PM
Hi Kirk, thanks for popping in.


The electricians have been here for a short visit.
The switch panel is done, color is missing only.
 
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on January 05, 2021, 08:32:21 PM
Excellent progress  :praise2:  :praise2:  :wine1: I have found I can run my engines off load with just the radiator but if I start loading them I need the fan.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on January 05, 2021, 08:44:29 PM
Quote
I have found I can run my engines off load with just the radiator but if I start loading them I need the fan.

Excellent point Roger - and I forgot that on full size plants there are also many factors that decide how simple of complex all this need to be - like height difference between radiator and cylinder heads, natural airflow, etc.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 06, 2021, 06:52:11 AM
Excellent progress  :praise2: :praise2: :wine1: I have found I can run my engines off load with just the radiator but if I start loading them I need the fan.


Hi Roger, thanks for watching.
Currently there are no plans to drive anything with the BME, just watching it idle, if it will run ever.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 14, 2021, 01:20:07 PM
Hi everybody, the next attempt was done to solder the covers into the cylinder heads properly.
This time a bit more solder was given to the parts.
Preheating as always with a Chinese outdoor cooker and later an additional flame from a torch.
The result was fine for me.
The final pressure test with all 4 heads was also fine so far.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 11, 2021, 11:37:19 AM
Hi everybody, retirement is not easy. Still much more projects than time.


The progress with the cylinder heads made some time ago already.
I am happy with the soldering now.
Some holes for water, inlet, outlet and fixation has been made by the computer.
My extra cylinder, the #0 aka set up part, has been very helpful for this job as a fixture.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on February 11, 2021, 04:43:58 PM
Nice to see you back here Achim  :cheers:

I can't say I'm surprised about your lack of free time after retirement - it has happened to all I know ....  ;)
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Don1966 on February 11, 2021, 08:04:23 PM
Every update is an archivement and Enhances the finished engine love the progress achim..... :Love:


 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 12, 2021, 03:13:22 PM
Per, Don thanks for popping in again.
Go to know that you are still following along.


As mentioned in the previous post, the hole pattern was predrilled by the CNC but the final drilling was done by me.
The computer did a perfect job with out any failure, me not.
A boo-boo, one hole was drilled wrong size, so a bush was made and fixed with Loctite 348.
Next thing that did not work very well.
It is no good idea to do a manual drilling with short VHM drill bits, specially made for CNC usage.
There has never been a problem to "ram" a 1,6 mm drill bit by CNC into the material, but if you drill manually and there is a hint of a side force you will need immediately a new one.
So the remaining 1,6 mm holes has been done with a conventional drill bit again.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 13, 2021, 08:40:15 AM
Hi everybody,
the necessary plugs in the not necessary part of the bore for coolant are in now.
The plotter has been busy to cut all gaskets around the cylinder heads.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Dave Otto on February 13, 2021, 06:02:52 PM
Great progress Achim!
I'm still following along here.

Dave
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: crueby on February 13, 2021, 06:51:49 PM
What do you use for the gaskets? Looks like Viton sheet?
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 13, 2021, 08:15:11 PM
What do you use for the gaskets? Looks like Viton sheet?


Hi Chris, it is called ABIL N from Elring
https://www.elring.com/en/products/gasket-materials/ (https://www.elring.com/en/products/gasket-materials/)
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 14, 2021, 07:16:54 AM
Great progress Achim!
I'm still following along here.

Dave


Hi Dave, good to know that you are still there.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 14, 2021, 02:35:44 PM
Hi everybody,
the inlet manifold was the next part to make.
By luck I have found a very long drill bit in my toolbox.
Hole pattern again drilled by the computer.
A 2 mm pin should help to fix the carb adapter for soft soldering.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on February 14, 2021, 03:00:39 PM
Coming along nicely  :praise2:  :praise2:

That long hole must have been tricky  ::)
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: crueby on February 14, 2021, 03:20:33 PM
Watching along, great work!
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 17, 2021, 08:33:37 AM
Roger, Chris thanks.


Next part of the intake manifold, soft soldering of the carb adapter.
The adapter coated with some soldering paste and heated.
Some sanding for a better fit of the final soldering with paste in the discounter oven.
Making also some plugs to close the not needed sections of the bore.
And the intake manifold finally bolted to the cylinder heads.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 19, 2021, 08:11:28 AM
Hi everybody, next part, the exhaust manifold.
This is a combination of water and exhaust collector.
Made from 2 parts hard-soldered.
A lot of holes inside.
Two 2 mm extra holes for pins to keep it in place during the soldering.
The exhaust tube is a bit oversize for later machining of the end cover surfaces after soldering.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Craig DeShong on February 20, 2021, 12:43:38 AM
This model is a real masterpiece Achem.  The work you’re putting In is marvelous.  Lots of little details that make it a very interesting model.

 :popcorn: :popcorn:  I’ve been watching your progress; too nice to miss an installment.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Don1966 on February 20, 2021, 11:32:51 PM
Awwww marvelous work Achim ........  :Love:



 :drinking-41:
Don
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: gbritnell on February 21, 2021, 12:42:38 PM
Still following and still enjoying the build. Outstanding work but I had no
 doubts!
gbritnell
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 04, 2021, 01:39:14 PM
Hi Craig, Don and George, thank you so much for following along and the friendly comments.


Next to do with the exhaust manifold, the recess for the nuts/studs to fixture it to the cylinder heads.
A quick test with a socket wrench immediately has given an idea about a later coming problem.
Some rework were done and socket modified.


Last picture my theoretical attempt how to start the hard soldering of the two parts. 
Its was a good idea to do it like shown in the CAD model, but as sometimes, physics has taught me something different.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on March 04, 2021, 06:35:29 PM
That looks quite a complicated soldering job  ::)

I do like your powder coating finish  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on March 04, 2021, 10:52:42 PM
Just thinking out loud - how about soldering a thin flat piece of brass between the underside of the rectangular (square) and round bit ? - so you offset the round piece just enough to clear the socket wrench ....

I can only concur that this model is getting better and better  :praise2:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 05, 2021, 08:41:37 AM
Just thinking out loud - how about soldering a thin flat piece of brass between the underside of the rectangular (square) and round bit ? - so you offset the round piece just enough to clear the socket wrench ....

I can only concur that this model is getting better and better  :praise2:


Hi Per,
thanks.
It was more easy to modify a cheap Chinese socket wrench in this case.
And in the meantime, I have purchased also a better designed wrench for this application.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 05, 2021, 09:34:22 AM
That looks quite a complicated soldering job  ::)

I do like your powder coating finish  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :wine1:


Thanks Roger.


Soldering was a kind of new learning curve for me.


Set was done as in the CAD View. Both parts fixed by the two 2 mm pins and some wire wrapped around.
Some white out around the fixation holes to avoid any solder at this specific area.
Inside a lot of flux and the two 1 mm bars of silver solder inside.
Than a lot of heat.
First examination at the right side after cooling down looks fine.
Left hand side, the upper one O.K., the lower one no solder visible.
The flux is coming nicely through the gap but no solder ?
So I have repeated the process for the lower gap again.
Result again, no solder ?
So the questions was where is all my silver solder gone.
After cleaning it again with citrus acid, I could see all the solder inside the tube climbing up the radius.
So my assumption is that the flux in the V starts cooking.
The bubbles are pushing the silver solder bar inside up the wall of the radius and due to the heat  coming from outside specially at this area, the melted solder climbs up the wall.
Due to the moved position of the bar, we do have not enough solder (1 mm bar)  to go also down into the gap between the two parts.
So the result was, that may be I am the only one model engine maker who has an inside silver coated exhaust manifold.
Unfortunately it was my last available stick of this kind of silver solder.
I didn´t want to make any further experiments with different types of solder at this manifold so some Epoxy glue was prepared and the gap closed with it.
There is no special sealing necessary, it is only where the exhaust fumes are going through.
The both parts are safely connected by the upper soldering, so it should work this way.
Next job was to plug the water channel an to make the end cover and flange for the pipe.


Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on March 05, 2021, 11:40:47 AM
Nice that you could solve the problem with a smaller socket  :cheers:

I'm a lot more of a soft solder expert and just about nothing with regards to hard solder - so caution needed here - but solder tends to flow towards the hottest part ....

So I wonder if the part where you can't get it to flow, is slightly cooler than the other side where you got plenty ...?

Careful - you do NOT want to keep the flame fixed at the same spot - but keep it moving all the time. Done correctly, you can move the solder with the tip of the flame.
Not having the area that needs to be soldered clean enough can prevent the solder from flowing there ....

Now one last question - do you have water or exhaust gas where you do not have a perfect flow ?
In case of gas - you probably do not have a problem here .... water might result in a slow seepage ....

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 05, 2021, 01:21:45 PM
Nice that you could solve the problem with a smaller socket  :cheers:

I'm a lot more of a soft solder expert and just about nothing with regards to hard solder - so caution needed here - but solder tends to flow towards the hottest part ....

So I wonder if the part where you can't get it to flow, is slightly cooler than the other side where you got plenty ...?

Careful - you do NOT want to keep the flame fixed at the same spot - but keep it moving all the time. Done correctly, you can move the solder with the tip of the flame.
Not having the area that needs to be soldered clean enough can prevent the solder from flowing there ....

Now one last question - do you have water or exhaust gas where you do not have a perfect flow ?
In case of gas - you probably do not have a problem here .... water might result in a slow seepage ....


Hi Per,
It took me some head scratching too and time to understand was was going on there.
It is not a heat problem, as shown in picture "BME AGA 17", two different heat sources were used.
The outdoor cooker gives a basic heat overall nearly 400° C, measured by an IR thermometer.
The torch, left hand in the picture is the second source for the "movable heat" to get it partly heated to 650°-700°C to let the solder flow exactly to the heat, as mentioned in your post.


But what has happen already during the early phase of the heating, is the cooking of the flux in the V.
This cooking fluid with bubbles are pushing the solder stick out of the ground of the V and up the radius inside the tube.
When it is getting hotter, the flux is getting constant again and keeps the solder stick in the below shown position.
All this is not direct visible, because that happens inside the tube.
I have watched this effect from time to time at other soldering operations.
The cooking flux pushes a bit solder away, you see it and it can be pushed back to the gap.
What happens next is the melting of the solder, due to the small volume, 1 mm bar, there is not enough volume to flow down, mostly to the heat and fill the gap at the ground of the vee-notch.


The water channels are not affected by this, it is exhaust fume, gas only.
 


 
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 06, 2021, 01:14:05 PM
Hi Everybody.
Next to do, final machining of the manifold. There was still some overstock.
Hole pattern for cover and exhaust pipe flange also made quickly by the computer.
The engine prepared and waiting now for the completed manifold first time.
Finally the exhaust pipe itself. A 12 mm tube has to be bent.
After thinking a while about to make a fixture by myself, I have seen a Chinese 12 mm tube bender at ebay for EUR 13,00, stock in Germany and no extra freight cost.
That was an easy decision.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 07, 2021, 03:28:10 PM

Hi everybody, here the last progress for the exhaust.
Soft soldering of tube and flange.
Some gaskets and everything in situ.
Now the coolant has to get out of the engine.
First part of the coolant return pipe made and pressure tested.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Don1966 on March 07, 2021, 11:35:58 PM
Very nice progress Achim. On the solder your right to assume that the flux did in fact push the solder.  I have had that happen to me. I think if you would of tinned the part first before piecing it together you would of had solder there ready to flow with flux and heat then add as needed in some parts. With proper jig it could be done to insure the parts go together properly. Like Per said keep the heat moving and don’t let the part get too hot or the heavy area needing solder will flow out of the gaps. It hard to concentrate on both heatiing and adding soldering to the right amount sometimes with larger parts. Just my two cents.... You work is outstanding.

Regards
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 08, 2021, 06:19:04 AM
Hi Don, thanks.
You have remind me now, that there must be a little can with silver solder paste anywhere.
For the next time I will try to use this, may be only to get it tinned.
On the other side, with enough of this paste it may will work in this application also finally.
Another attempt, to get it work with less flux would sure also solve the problem.
Unfortunately here it was my last solder of an old  batch, still containing some Cadmium (the old stuff, not anymore allowed in Germany ) and I didn´t want to mix it with another new style silver solder.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 08, 2021, 06:33:56 AM

Hi everybody, more coolant return.
Soft soldering in situ was successful.
The plotter has cut some gaskets.
The M 1,6 bolts will be replaced later against a hex type.
Another connection point is scheduled in the pipe to avoid a later split between the manifold and the two pipe flanges, because this will a nightmare to solve 8 times a M 1,6 mm hex bolt there.
Next part to make, that all is laying on the table for closing the loop, the long pipe from the head down to reservoir.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: scc on March 08, 2021, 11:15:23 AM
Gorgeous engine Achim. :cheers:        Terry
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Craig DeShong on March 08, 2021, 01:46:01 PM
Very nice work Achim, I’ve stated it before but the statement bears repeating; you’re building a beautiful model.

Soldering I something my eyes just won’t let me attempt any longer, can’t seem to see what I’m doing well enough without burning my eyebrows off :ROFL:.  The little soldering I need to do is usually substituted with Locktite.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 09, 2021, 11:21:06 AM
Gorgeous engine Achim. :cheers:        Terry


Thank you Terry, go to know you are still following this long time project.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 09, 2021, 11:23:37 AM
Very nice work Achim, I’ve stated it before but the statement bears repeating; you’re building a beautiful model.

Soldering I something my eyes just won’t let me attempt any longer, can’t seem to see what I’m doing well enough without burning my eyebrows off :ROFL: .  The little soldering I need to do is usually substituted with Locktite.  :ThumbsUp:


Hi Craig, thank you very much.
Waiting for the next steps coming at your running project.
As mentioned before, I like the clutch you have made there.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 09, 2021, 11:34:46 AM
Hi everybody,
here the place where the long coolant return pipe should find its new home.
After some fiddling around with all the little challenges here, everything is fixed now.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Kim on March 09, 2021, 04:26:00 PM
Wow! That looks great, Achim!  The pipework is all so tidy, the paint job so neat - the whole ensemble looks wonderful!  :popcorn:
Kim
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: sid pileski on March 09, 2021, 04:33:36 PM
Looking very nice!
What more do you have to do for a test run??

Sid
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Dave Otto on March 10, 2021, 01:15:59 AM
Hi Achim
I'm still following along and enjoying your great progress!

Dave
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Don1966 on March 10, 2021, 02:47:19 AM
 :Love:



 :drinking-41:
Don
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 10, 2021, 02:21:43 PM
Wow! That looks great, Achim!  The pipework is all so tidy, the paint job so neat - the whole ensemble looks wonderful!  :popcorn:
Kim


Thanks Kim, waiting for your next progress also. Enjoy your retirement.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 10, 2021, 02:24:26 PM
Hi Achim
I'm still following along and enjoying your great progress!

Dave


Hi Dave, thanks, more time more progerss.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 10, 2021, 02:25:21 PM
:Love:



 :drinking-41:
Don


Don, thanks. Go to know you are still following along.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 10, 2021, 02:36:45 PM
Looking very nice!
What more do you have to do for a test run??

Sid


Hi Sid, thanks for popping in.


Go question, there is a long list:
Pistons is the next to do, followed by a breaking in for the crank drive on the lathe, may be followed directly by a leakage test of each single cylinder.
Cylinder heads are still without valve seats / valve guides.
Valves
Complete valve train with distributor adapter.
.......


But it will be attacked, see below, nearly everything removed to measure the bores correctly for individual piston making first.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 12, 2021, 07:09:24 AM
Hi everybody,  first from the above mentioned to do list, piston making.
I will try to make each piston matched to the relevant cylinder by 0,05 mm clearance.
For a final check I think it will be good to push the liner at the lathe carefully over each piston.
So the engine is nearly complete disassembled now.
The best of my Chinese measurement tools are at the table, hopefully they will be best used.
My line bore should  be 26 mm, the result of measurement written down.
Also the calculated diameter for each piston.
The blanks are prepared too.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on March 12, 2021, 07:55:22 PM
Looking good  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: I'm glad to see you are following your normal procedure with a couple of spares  :)  :wine1:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 13, 2021, 03:36:30 PM
Thanks Roger.
These extra blanks has been used quicker than expected.
On set up part was tested first with all operations to check the whole process.
Turning operations has been successfully.
Also a test fit with the relevant liner.
The grooves for the piston rings worked also quite well.
The pockets for the small con rod eye was a CNC job and also quite well so far.
During the first layer milling I have heard a strange nose and stopped immediately the G-code.
After inspection I could find the cutter loose in the collet.
It was pulled out of the OZ collet in the spindle motor and deeply sticking in the piston.
In this case I could fix everything and restart the CNC job.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on March 13, 2021, 06:41:30 PM
Great progress and I'm sure you are happy that the small incident in the mill didn't cost anything but time  :cheers:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 14, 2021, 06:12:17 AM
Hi Per, thanks.
But this was not the end of the story.
Next piston has had the same issue at the CNC mill, but this time it was not the set up part anymore,  the cutter dived very deep into the material, that it was a part for the bin.
So it was time to start a research.
What I have found is shown in the picture below, a faulty collet.
There is no contact at the surface, where it should be.
The contact is at the upper end only where the force can not squeeze it together.
So again a new experience.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 14, 2021, 01:48:33 PM
Here a short Video about my piston clearance test of the set up parts.
_M44gsyXwPM

Stay safe everybody.

 
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on March 14, 2021, 07:41:18 PM
I have no experience of OZ collets. What machine is this on, not the Proxxon??
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on March 14, 2021, 09:37:21 PM
Argh - it's always annoying when you can't trust your tools  :rant:

Very nice finish and clearance on your piston  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 15, 2021, 06:08:25 AM
Per, Thanks.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 15, 2021, 06:25:21 AM
I have no experience of OZ collets. What machine is this on, not the Proxxon??


Hi Roger, the original Proxxon spindle motor is with an ER20 collet equipped, but since nearly two years all my CNC milling action is done by a Mafell FM 1000 (https://fm.mafell.de/en/) high speed spindle.
But it seems, that this could be history soon.
I am very happy with this high speed milling with the CNC mill so may be a 1,1 KW Teknomotor spindle with inverter could be the next step.
They are cooled by an electric fan and so they are very quite if in action.
The available torque is also an very interesting thing here and sure an advantage.




Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 17, 2021, 06:07:38 AM
Hi Everybody,
final machining of all pistons was the next challenge.
The next set up in the collet block for drilling and reaming the gudgeon pin holes and first assembly with a con rod of my set up parts.
Family shot of all pistons and cylinders for the engine.
Followed by the rejected attempts.
One with the already mentioned cutter accident and another one whit two gudgeon pin holes one side.
I have to discuss this with the machine operator within the next pay raise discussion.
Finally my way to clamp a final piston for polishing.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Don1966 on March 17, 2021, 05:03:11 PM
 :Love:




 :drinking-41:
Don
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 19, 2021, 06:50:55 AM
Thanks Don.


Next job to do, some gudgeon pins, followed by the reassembly of cylinders and crankcase. Hopefully finally.
I have got it manage to buy some black stainless steel M 1,6 bolts for the dummy cover of the clean out door.
So some shortening was necessary only.
Also some black SS bolts for the water inlet pipe are available now, unfortunately hexagon cap head screws are the only way her, due to available  space for a socket.
The aluminium plate on top over all cylinders is used as a jig for adjustment only.



Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: gbritnell on March 19, 2021, 01:43:30 PM
Still watching and enjoying!
gbritnell
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: vcutajar on March 19, 2021, 02:42:40 PM
Watching, enjoying and learning in the background.

Vince
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Kim on March 19, 2021, 05:06:45 PM
That looks amazing, Achim!   Excellent pictures, too!  I love the closeups - it really shows your fine detail work.  And I love the contrast of the white and black paint! Or is that gray and black? Whichever, it really looks nice!


Kim
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 20, 2021, 06:24:40 AM
George, Vince, Kim thank you very much for visiting and the friendly comments.


Kim, it is a light grey.
If the engine runs some day, hopefully, I hope to see than dirty oil running over this bright surfaces. May be it will look more realistic than.


Next to do for the final assembly are the more realistic hexagon bolts for the cylinder to crank case fixation.
It is a bit tricky to fasten them, because there is no chance to use a socket key. All bolts has be turned by a thin and tiny spanner.
I could not get any black M 3 bolts with small heads from stainless steel, only made be normal steel was available.
The German source to get them already black burnished is known in the meantime, but for this project too late.
A bigger purchase for a lot of special bolts was made 2 years ago already.
So the chemical assistance was necessary to get them black.
The temporarily used cross-head screws, which has been very comfortable during all the pre-assemblies, are swapped now.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Dave Otto on March 20, 2021, 05:39:32 PM
Hi Achim
You are continuing to make great progress!
Proper hardware is always a welcome addition to a scale model, looks very nice!

Dave
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 21, 2021, 06:48:10 AM
Hi Dave, thanks.
Good to know that you are still following along.
Retirement and the world wide pandemic are in this case an advantage for the progress made.


A further disassembly was necessary to start another reassembly again.
Pistons, con rods, gudgeons pins and piston rings are all joined now.
The piston assembly, supported by an earlier made tool for easier sliding in was very useful.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 22, 2021, 10:12:28 AM
Hi Everybody,
last steps before some motion.
Con rod bolts tightening with a tightening torque of 1 Nm.
Than my set up of the engine at the test bench.
Over all it was something about 6 hours break in with different revs between 150 and 600 rpm.
Bf6M5dIehsg
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Don1966 on March 22, 2021, 05:44:21 PM
 :Love:



 :drinking-41:
Don
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on March 23, 2021, 01:12:25 PM
Seems to turn nice and smoothly (I'm glad the video was not of the whole 6 hours)   :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1: That's a lot of small bolts to fix it all together  ::)

I like your mini torque spanner  :)
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 28, 2021, 10:31:29 AM
Don, Roger thanks for visiting.


Hi everybody, next I tried to get more familiar with my Chinese pressure drop tester.
First of all, here I did not do the right calibration procedure adjustment, so the shown 30% loss is not realistic.
Zero % was at nearly 15 %.
I have check mainly the sound inside the crank case with my ear at the open door and this was in my understanding O.K.
A very smooth, very light blow by at each cylinder could be heard.
I have to do some more experiments with tester.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 31, 2021, 06:23:17 AM
Hi everybody, next do, to continue with the cylinder heads.
First of all the hole in the heads has to be prepared by drilling and reaming to the required size for a light interference fit with the combined vale seat / vale guides.
These vale seats are the next parts to attack, followed by the valves it self.
I will try to show my way to do it here.
Until now I have never used a special made tool like George Britnell or Brian Rupnow recommend, so far, may be with luck, successfully.
Hopefully I will be able to repeat this.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 31, 2021, 06:28:59 AM
... here the next pictures of valve seat / valve guide machining.
As I mentioned already, it is my way and sure not the only one.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on March 31, 2021, 06:34:32 AM
... and how it looks like.
Generally the goal was to get it 0,02 mm thicker than the reamed 11 mm hole in the heads.
The set is complete and I am ready to fetch the arbor press and put it on my bench now.
And yes, no plan changes, it is still a 4 cylinder engine, the fifth is my set up part.


Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 02, 2021, 09:14:41 AM
Hi everybody, I wish you all a Happy Easter.


It was time to get the valve seat into the heads now.
Managed by using my arbor press, some Loctite 603 mainly for sealing and some luck.
Everything was available and so the job was done without any issues.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Kim on April 02, 2021, 05:55:11 PM
Very tidy job on pressing your valve seats in!  I always have trouble with an interference fit.  I can never seem to get the correct amount of interference.  I'm usually on the 'way too much' side and the parts deform as they are forced together.

And I like your sterile tray that you keep your parts in. Looks like you're ready for the operating room!   :Lol:

Kim
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 02, 2021, 07:05:46 PM

And I like your sterile tray that you keep your parts in. Looks like you're ready for the operating room!   :Lol:

Kim


Hi Kim,
that was a special offer at our local discounter.
Some kitchen stuff.
A set of 4 pieces, not proper deburred and sharp like a knife.
Nobody wanted to buy them, I have got the set for EUR 2,00.
10 Minutes deburring with a Dremel and there we are.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Tonyr on April 02, 2021, 08:10:55 PM
Achim,

This is one of those builds that is so good, there is nothing really I can say that Would be enough.

Tony
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 04, 2021, 06:50:40 AM
Achim,

This is one of those builds that is so good, there is nothing really I can say that Would be enough.

Tony


Hi Tony, thanks for the nice and friendly comment.
Good to know, that you are still following along.
May be not really, but perhaps a bit similar to the quality of an Austin seven model engine, build in Manchester during the last couple of month.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 04, 2021, 07:21:26 AM
Hi everybody,
we have cylinder heads with valve guides and valve seats now, so valves are needed next.
The following pictures are showing my way to do it.
For me it is fine like this, knowing that there are also multiple ways used by different model engine makers.
Since I have made this Inverted Center, as shown with plans in MEB #37, I am very satisfied with this way to do it.
The required cutting tools are nearly the same as used for the valve seats/guides.
Last picture, the first sample parts to get again familiar with the process.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 04, 2021, 07:40:20 AM
... checking the grinding in a sample valve seat. Seems to be fine.
And than the go to make them all.
This funny nut was the first thing at hand to check the spring position.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on April 04, 2021, 11:22:30 AM
Lots more bits  :)  :)  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:

Did you have any problems cutting the faces on the valves with the countersink?
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 04, 2021, 03:39:44 PM
Lots more bits  :) :) :ThumbsUp: :wine1:

Did you have any problems cutting the faces on the valves with the countersink?


Hi Roger, if the countersink is sharp and a good quality, no problem.
It is easy to set up this tool proper.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: 90LX_Notch on April 04, 2021, 06:01:45 PM
I’ve been quietly following along.  Very nice work Achim and very nice methods.  Everything is coming along nicely.

-Bob
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 05, 2021, 08:10:06 AM
Thanks Bob, good to know that you are also still following along.


Next job, to open the in and outlet port from the cylinder head into the valve seat.
Now all machining at the heads is done and the very important question, is the water jacket still sealed, had to be answered.
The water inlet from the cylinder to the head has to be closed first for the test.
And next the water outlet into the exhaust manifold.
The wire was used to find the right position for the adapter.
To get more familiar with the pressure drop tester I have check it both ways, with the tester and in the water bucket.
So far everything was fine, including my badly hard soldered set up  part.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on April 05, 2021, 10:26:17 PM
With all that effort to test for leaks, you should be rather sure that you do not get water into places where it will do damage  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 06, 2021, 09:06:06 AM
Hi Per, hopefully.


There is a specific place in this design of the outlet port, where I was a bit worried about.
Marked in the  attached picture.
It looks safe, but the theoretical measurement is 0,77 mm.
And this after a light design change, before it was less than 0,5 mm.
If I take into account the complete tolerance chain, starting by the raw parts before hard soldering and followed by the assembly machining it could get critical, because you can´t see it.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on April 06, 2021, 05:10:34 PM
You need to use good hard water. The amount of limescale (Kalk) in it will block any small leaks  :stir:  :wine1:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 08, 2021, 08:20:24 AM
Hi Roger, may be a solution, but without any leakage would be the best.


Valves and cylinder heads had to be paired now.
Grinding as usual.
Leakage test with the small vacuum pump, as usual also.
Most of them has kept the vacuum for minimum 15 sec, so that was fine for me.
Cleaning with the discounter ultrasonic device, followed by some oil for rust prevention.
Next to do, valve caps / spring retainers.



Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Vixen on April 08, 2021, 07:58:18 PM
Hello Achim,

More good progress, you must very near to completion.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Please can you remind me of the diameter of the valves and inlet/ outlet ports. They look to be quite small.

Do you do the vacuum test dry or with a the oil?

Mike
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Craig DeShong on April 09, 2021, 01:31:19 AM
I would think a valve leak test that exceeds 15 seconds would be more than adequate.  Still following along Achim.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 09, 2021, 06:28:01 AM
Hello Achim,

More good progress, you must very near to completion.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Please can you remind me of the diameter of the valves and inlet/ outlet ports. They look to be quite small.

Do you do the vacuum test dry or with a the oil?

Mike


Hi Mike,
thanks.


The design of Doug says,
inlet port .189" ( 4,8 mm)
outlet port .206" ( 5,23 mm)
valve disk outer diameter .370" ( 9,4 mm )
valve seat inner diameter .281" ( 7,14 mm)
valve stem .1247 ( 3,17 mm)


my metric conversation ends in
inlet port 4,8 mm
outlet port 5 mm, due to this mentioned very small gap port to water jacket and placed a bit out of center, higher, to original design.
valve disk outer diameter 9,5 mm
valve seat inner diameter 7 mm
valve stem 3,2 mm


So there is a difference in the diameter of inlet and outlet port, but the same size of in and out valve.
Does it really make sense ?
Is this relevant for an idling model engine ?
I do not know, but my stomach says no.
I do know that this it not the best way to design a high performance engine, but I am very far away from that.

For testing the leakage, there was a bit of oil at the valve stem, but no grease.
The contact surface valve to seat was nearly dry.


Some time ago I have used normal automotive grinding paste and realized than, that it is much to coarse.
I found this paste shown in the picture, Macolaepp (https://www.ebay.de/itm/153140214054?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28) # 360 my 50
This stuff is really very good.
Not cheap, but I assume it will last for ever.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 09, 2021, 06:29:26 AM
I would think a valve leak test that exceeds 15 seconds would be more than adequate.  Still following along Achim.


Hi Craig, good to know you are watching.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 10, 2021, 08:44:40 AM
Hi everybody,
some more, for me tiny parts, the valve caps.
Made from some free cutting steel.
For me a bit tricky to clamp for the machining of the contact surface.
Finally done with the help of a ER25 collet at the lathe.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: scc on April 10, 2021, 12:06:07 PM
Beautiful work Achim :ThumbsUp:     Looking at these cylinder heads :Love:    I shall have to build an I.C. engine one day.        Terry
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: gbritnell on April 10, 2021, 12:51:23 PM
Outstanding work as usual Achim! I really like this engine,
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 16, 2021, 06:52:18 PM
Beautiful work Achim :ThumbsUp:     Looking at these cylinder heads :Love:    I shall have to build an I.C. engine one day.        Terry


Hi Terry, thanks.
be sure I will follow your IC engine project.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 16, 2021, 06:54:55 PM
Outstanding work as usual Achim! I really like this engine,


Hi George,
I appreciate it very much that you have a look for my attempts to build a nice engine.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 18, 2021, 09:38:49 AM
Hi everybody, some more test of the already finished and pre assembled components.
Started with each cylinder on its own.
The result of the pressure drop test was not fine on each cylinder.
After some research I found out, that each cylinder has a leakage at the head gasket.
Reason for this, my nice but useless tiny M3 nuts.
These nuts are available here in Germany specially for model making, looking nicer than the big M3 ISO nuts.
The wrench size is 4 mm only for M3 nuts and that means a very thin wall thickness with the result, that the necessary torque of min 1 Nm can not be applied to them.
For the test I have not used the torque wrench, by hand feeling I have stopped to tighten before it gets weak.
This torque was less than 1 Nm and the reason for my leakage.
The attempt to tighten these  tiny nuts by 1 Nm end with complete loose by 3 of 4 nuts.
So the standard ISO M3 nuts were used and the 1 Nm torque was no problem anymore.
Also the leakage was gone.
Next test, the water jacket from inlet pipe close to the pump up to water out at all of the 4 cylinder heads.
That was fine so far.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Don1966 on April 18, 2021, 05:19:27 PM
Outstanding Achim, still with you and you know the smell of brass just gets me cranking....... :Love:



 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Kim on April 18, 2021, 10:21:03 PM
Well, now you know!  Too bad those pretty nuts didn't do the trick.  I'd think that the extra height of the nuts would have made up for the decreased distance between flats, but apparently not :(.  Wonder if there's some happy middle ground?  Maybe you can use cold black for these silver nuts and improve their look some.  Still not as pleasing of shape.  But there's a LOT to be said for them doing their job!

Excellent detective work, Achim!

Kim
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 19, 2021, 06:41:50 AM
Outstanding Achim, still with you and you know the smell of brass just gets me cranking....... :Love:



 :cheers:
Don


Hi Don, thanks.
I know you do like brass, but unfortunately also here is later a light grey powder coating the final state.



Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 19, 2021, 06:49:23 AM
Well, now you know!  Too bad those pretty nuts didn't do the trick.  I'd think that the extra height of the nuts would have made up for the decreased distance between flats, but apparently not :( .  Wonder if there's some happy middle ground?  Maybe you can use cold black for these silver nuts and improve their look some.  Still not as pleasing of shape.  But there's a LOT to be said for them doing their job!

Excellent detective work, Achim!

Kim


Hi Kim, thanks for your visiting.
The nuts in the picture are not good for home made blackening, they are made from SS.
But the right parcel has arrived already, these are also from SS but with the right color, colored by the manufacture already.


Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Kim on April 19, 2021, 05:56:25 PM
Yes! That looks the ticket!
Kim
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Craig DeShong on April 20, 2021, 03:40:33 AM
Hi again Achim.  Still loving your work. 

I was reading about your trials with the ‘model nuts’.  I’ve been on a bit of a ‘rant’ lately in my Otto Langen thread regarding how some things just don’t scale down properly at smaller sizes.  I guess these model nuts are another case where a scaled down something (in this case a nut) just doesn’t have the same proportional strength as it’s full scale counterpart.  Sometimes you just have to accept compromises.  The new batch of nuts sure look good though.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 20, 2021, 06:56:56 AM
Hi Craig, thank you.




Valve train is the next challenge now.
Below the CAD model of the whole thing, followed by a single module for one cylinder and finally one single camshaft bracket alone.
After all my experiments with the 4th axis  (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,10210.0.html)at my little CNC mill, I thought it was time now to make some real engine parts with it.
The CAM program for a the 4th axis machining was prepared in Fusion 360.
Basically an easy strategy, first to remove as much as possible material (EN AW-7075) by 3D adaptive cleaning, leaving 0,3 mm stock.
Second step, machining all plain surfaces to final dimensions, 2D, to get a nice surface.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 23, 2021, 07:43:03 AM
Hi everybody,
and here some swarf from making the camshaft brackets with the 4th axis.
This video tries to show the choreography of the 4th axis operation.
So manly the movement and not the milling is shown.
BLVP2DK7ycAOnly the short facing operations at the end have also captured some milling.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on April 23, 2021, 01:42:22 PM
That's some fine CNC gymnastics  :praise2:  Do you bring the X axis back to the reference point each time you rotate the 4th axis?
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on April 23, 2021, 04:12:49 PM
That's some fine CNC gymnastics  :praise2:  Do you bring the X axis back to the reference point each time you rotate the 4th axis?


Hi Roger,
we do have 14 different tool paths here.
Each new tool path starts with the referencing of X,Y,Z and A.
This is the normal reason for the movement of all axes before a new job starts. 



Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 07, 2021, 07:02:36 AM
Hi everybody,
the cam shaft bracket with distributor adapter was made next.
Same procedure as done before but with a light design change.
And the finish of the overall shape with hole pattern.


Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 07, 2021, 07:05:31 AM
... and some more pictures.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on May 07, 2021, 11:56:20 AM
Impressive parts - but why did you not let the CNC do the holes in those parts ?
I mean - that would ensure total accuracy with regard to placement and angles ....
Yes you would have to change tool, to do the final 'Reaming' for the axle, but ....

Per
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Don1966 on May 07, 2021, 02:04:55 PM
 :Love:



 :drinking-41:
Don
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on May 07, 2021, 09:07:33 PM
 :praise2:  :praise2: What is the extra piece on the left hand bracket for?
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 08, 2021, 08:46:20 AM
:Love:



 :drinking-41:
Don


Don Thanks.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 08, 2021, 08:47:27 AM
:praise2: :praise2: What is the extra piece on the left hand bracket for?


Hi Roger, that should be the new home of the distributor.
Thanks for watching.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 08, 2021, 09:05:49 AM
Impressive parts - but why did you not let the CNC do the holes in those parts ?
I mean - that would ensure total accuracy with regard to placement and angles ....
Yes you would have to change tool, to do the final 'Reaming' for the axle, but ....

Per


Hi Per, I do trust the CNC 100% too, but I do not trust the lathe and conventional mill operator afterwards. :mischief:
To do the set up for the flat surface machining aligned proper to the  cam shaft holes is not as easy.
So my decisions was  here to go the idiot proofed way.
First: general shape.
Second: flat surface as reference.
Third: cam shaft holes aligned to the flat surface.
So I have modified an old fixture for the next mill set up.
The brackets now clamped in the same way as fixed to the engine.
In my eyes the best way to archive same position of cam shaft bearing in all 4 brackets.
 
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Vixen on May 08, 2021, 10:58:30 AM
Achim,

I always admire your skills and love the way this engine is coming together.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Two questions?

What screw threads are you using? I ask, because the nuts have nice proportions. Small metric nuts are all the wrong shape for models. They are intended for ease of tightening and not for looks.

Have you anodised the cylinder heads? They look great

Mike
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 08, 2021, 07:04:45 PM
Achim,

I always admire your skills and love the way this engine is coming together.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Two questions?

What screw threads are you using? I ask, because the nuts have nice proportions. Small metric nuts are all the wrong shape for models. They are intended for ease of tightening and not for looks.

Have you anodised the cylinder heads? They look great

Mike


Hi Mike, thanks. And me too does admire your skills in model engineering.


The cylinder heads are fixed now with M3 ISO nuts. A black type is under the bench already.
The attempt with "Modellbaumuttern" failed. https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,7527.msg235023.html#msg235023
Most of the screws and nuts at these engine are metric "Modellbauschrauben" and "Modellbaumuttern", M1.6, M2, M2.5, M3.
Here a German source with dimensions https://knupfer.info/shop/index.php/deutsch/modellschrauben-schwarz.html


The cylinder heads are brass, MS58, with a slight patina so far. They will get a light grey powder coating soon.

Stay healthy.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Vixen on May 08, 2021, 07:51:23 PM

Most of the screws and nuts at these engine are metric "Modellbauschrauben" and "Modellbaumuttern", M1.6, M2, M2.5, M3.
Here a German source with dimensions https://knupfer.info/shop/index.php/deutsch/modellschrauben-schwarz.html


Achim thanks for your reply. The special fastners from your supplier are very well proportioned and look correct on model engines. I shall use these when I am ready to finish the W165 engines.

Unfortunately the fallout from Brexit had made importing stuff from Germany much more expensive. Suddenly many suppliers and their shipping companies are adding special surcharges and then there can be import duty and more VAT taxes to pay.  Perhaps, one day, I will ask you to buy some of these nice nuts and bolts and post them to me.

Mike
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on May 08, 2021, 09:43:26 PM
Quote
Unfortunately the fallout from Brexit had made importing stuff from Germany much more expensive. Suddenly many suppliers and their shipping companies are adding special surcharges and then there can be import duty and more VAT taxes to pay.

That also goes the other way Mike. I had to order some tools for my big bike from the UK, and I had to pay for two shipments, even though the British company promises that everything on the same order goes out on one shipment charge and in one package .... it was shipped a in two parcels with minutes in between  :censored: .... and just to make it worse - I had to pay Customs handling fees twice for that reason  :Mad: .... and all that meant several weeks delay in Customs  :cussing:
So absolutely NO reason to EVER buy British again .... Shame as I had good experiences before Brexit ....

Thank you for your reply Achim - I do understand your argument.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Vixen on May 08, 2021, 10:02:21 PM
Per,

We can only hope that our politicians will grow up and act with responsibility, once again. Perhaps, one day?

Mike
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: crueby on May 08, 2021, 10:28:58 PM
Per,

We can only hope that our politicians will grow up and act with responsibility, once again. Perhaps, one day?

Mike
Hope, maybe.  Expect? Nah.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Craig DeShong on May 08, 2021, 10:32:22 PM
:Love:



 :drinking-41:
Don

I’m with Don, ‘pretty work’ as a mentor of mine used to say.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 09, 2021, 07:15:09 AM
Quote
Unfortunately the fallout from Brexit had made importing stuff from Germany much more expensive. Suddenly many suppliers and their shipping companies are adding special surcharges and then there can be import duty and more VAT taxes to pay.

That also goes the other way Mike. I had to order some tools for my big bike from the UK, and I had to pay for two shipments, even though the British company promises that everything on the same order goes out on one shipment charge and in one package .... it was shipped a in two parcels with minutes in between  :censored: .... and just to make it worse - I had to pay Customs handling fees twice for that reason  :Mad: .... and all that meant several weeks delay in Customs  :cussing:
So absolutely NO reason to EVER buy British again .... Shame as I had good experiences before Brexit ....

Thank you for your reply Achim - I do understand your argument.


Unfortunately I have made a similar experience.
Lead time, extra freight coast and custom charges have completely stopped any purchase in the U.K. now.
It´s a pity.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 09, 2021, 07:59:40 AM
Hi everybody, distributor is one of my next challenges.
I have purchased a so called SATRA 4 cylinder distributor from Roy at S/S Ignition, cap and base.
Some time ago a CAD model was done to the see the proportions in the assembly.
In my eyes it looks horrible.
So a design for an other base was created, similar to that what Doug and Jeff did with their models.
This design gives now the spec for the right hand shaft side of the cam shaft also.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on May 09, 2021, 06:51:02 PM
Achim, an interesting distributor build  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp: :wine1: What materials are you using?

Mike, if you can follow this website I can probably order some for you.

https://holzapfeldampf.ch/product/muttern-modellbau-stahl-schwarz/

Switzerland is also not in the EU so it may be easier  ::)  :o  :toilet_claw:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Vixen on May 09, 2021, 07:26:30 PM
Mike, if you can follow this website I can probably order some for you.

https://holzapfeldampf.ch/product/muttern-modellbau-stahl-schwarz/

Roger, Thanks for your generous offer.

The small nut sizes from your Holzapfeldampf site offer different nut proportions of height and width to those from Achim's Knupfner site. I will have to decide which would suit the Mercedes engine best.

It will be some time before I actually need them, so maybe the politicians will have stopped quarreling among themselves by then and start to act with reason and logic. Otherwise everyone will be the looser.

Thanks

Mike
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 10, 2021, 07:41:54 AM
Achim, an interesting distributor build  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :wine1: What materials are you using?

Mike, if you can follow this website I can probably order some for you.

https://holzapfeldampf.ch/product/muttern-modellbau-stahl-schwarz/ (https://holzapfeldampf.ch/product/muttern-modellbau-stahl-schwarz/)

Switzerland is also not in the EU so it may be easier  ::) :o :toilet_claw:


Hi Roger,
there is a piece of black POM under the bench, I will try this first.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 10, 2021, 07:54:33 AM
Hi everybody,
after the final definition of the cam shaft and distributor has been more clear, no excuses any more to do the finish around the cylinder heads now.
First there was a finishing job at the cam shaft brackets to do.
A small corner radius which I have made by conventional milling.
Another bracket was missing, the upper bearing of the upright shaft.
Also done by a CNC milling operation, followed by some conventional machining/reaming.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 10, 2021, 08:00:23 AM
The cam shaft gear is not prepared yet to fit to the shaft, so I made a quick and dirty dummy to check any clearance to the bracket.
I have been happy with the result, so I could make an appointment with the Anodizing Company in the next village for all these so far made brackets.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 12, 2021, 08:23:55 AM
Hi everybody, the next typical CNC required part has been attacked.
Rockers, 8 for the engine, 2 for the set up cylinder head and another 2 in spare was my calculation.
There was the possibility to cut them all out of a plate by CNC or to do a conventional preparation with a kind of pre machined raw part.
My decision was to use the last option, with my small band saw easy to do.
First picture the CAD model, parts will be made by aluminium AW 7075.
The preparation of the 12 small pieces was easily done in a very short time with the band saw.
The set up on the conventional mill could mostly clamp 2 pieces for one go and the cuboid has had already the final dimensions of the rocker.
Than the start of the CNC operation, first drilling the holes, second the pockets on one side followed by a flip over and the other side pocket was done also.


Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 16, 2021, 08:42:53 AM
Hi everybody, rockers the next step.
Reaming of all holes with the conventional mill.
An available fixture was modified to suite for the next CNC machining, the outer contour of all 12 pieces.
The same fixture could be used for the roller slot at each side of the rocker.
The dark part was an attempt with the barrel stone machine, but the compound has given a very dark coated surface and I am not sure if the anodizing company will like it.
So a manual deburing with the Dremel was used to get the last finish.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 20, 2021, 07:40:46 AM
Hi everybody
the rockers are out for a black anodizing.
A good point to make the roller and other accessories for the valve train.
And a replacement for a #1 M 1,6 mm tap will be necessary.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 20, 2021, 07:43:37 AM
...and some more pictures.
The cam shaft bracket are back from black anodizing already.



Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Vixen on May 20, 2021, 10:19:04 AM
Hello Achim,

Those bold, contrasting, colours will make your engine outstanding  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Mike
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: gbritnell on May 20, 2021, 01:10:20 PM
I really like the colors added to the engine. 
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 22, 2021, 06:32:37 AM
Mike, George thanks for the encouraging comments. Good to know that you both are still following along. I appreciate it very much.


Headword color.


I took the set up cylinder head #0 for a first powder coating trial.
First idea was to make some masking by metal sheet, but after an investigation I realized that it could be done by some tape easily also.
The set up cylinder #0 and the set up cam shaft braked #0 has been used as a cutting pattern.
Set up cylinder was not bad, cylinder #1 has got to much powder by my fault, but it is at the bottom side, so it will be hidden.
The pictures are a bit mixed of cylinder #0 and #1.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 22, 2021, 06:36:49 AM
... and two more pictures.
Cylinder #1 fitted on trial basis at the engine.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Johnmcc69 on May 22, 2021, 04:32:12 PM
 :ThumbsUp:
 That's going to be a fantastic looking engine!

 Great work all the way around Achim!

 John
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Kim on May 22, 2021, 05:09:34 PM
This is a great looking engine, Achim!  Love the powder coat and the anodizing :)  :ThumbsUp:

Just curious, why'd you choose to anodize some parts and powder coat others?

Kim
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 22, 2021, 06:31:09 PM
:ThumbsUp:
 That's going to be a fantastic looking engine!

 Great work all the way around Achim!

 John


Hi John, thanks for watching and giving friendly comments.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 22, 2021, 06:38:21 PM
This is a great looking engine, Achim!  Love the powder coat and the anodizing :) :ThumbsUp:

Just curious, why'd you choose to anodize some parts and powder coat others?

Kim


Hi Kim, because deep inside me is a lazy guy.
The actual goal  was to get them black only.
These camshaft bearing brackets does have in my understanding lots of sensitive functional surfaces. So the black anodizing was the easiest way to get them black and keep all sensitive surfaces untouched.
The irregular surface of the power coating does match better to the bigger parts like the cylinder heads and so on, in my eyes.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Dave Otto on May 22, 2021, 07:54:02 PM
Hi Achim
I love all the detail that you are putting into the engine and display, it sure is looking nice!

Dave
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 27, 2021, 05:54:18 AM
Hi Achim
I love all the detail that you are putting into the engine and display, it sure is looking nice!

Dave


Dave, thanks.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 27, 2021, 06:31:30 AM
Hi everybody,
the rockers are back from anodizing also.
Time to do a research if my metric conversion of the valve train is really functional too.
The lobes are not made until now, so I made a dummy, the brass part, with the base circle dimension one side and the bump circle the other side.
And oops, the shortest adjustment of the vale with valve cap/spring retainer is to long.
The valve is already opened, only a little movement but a bit to much, no valve clearance adjustment possible in that case.
A valve fully open does not show any problems.
A decision was made to rework the valve cap/spring retainer. First I have modified a tap, by grinding of the tip, to get some tenth of a millimeter more length of the thread.
But that did not help to fix it. So I measured the thickness of the valve caps and saw it was possible to shorten them a bit without any risk.
Now there was a gap against the basic circle dummies visible for the later necessary valve clearance adjustment.
Don´t be irritated by the surface of the cylinder head in the picture, that is cylinder head #0, my set up part.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 27, 2021, 06:35:27 AM
... I thought may be it is worth to show some picture of the assembly, disassembly and new assembly mess also.
It keeps me busy whole time.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 27, 2021, 06:39:56 AM
The last detail missing, before the attack of the cams, the shortening of the roller pins.
And the hopefully final assembly of the pins with Loctite into the rockers.


Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on May 27, 2021, 11:34:34 AM
Another batch of nice new shiny parts  :)

Great that you caught the missing clearance before commiting to making the rest of the camlobes :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on May 27, 2021, 11:56:59 AM
Looking good  :praise2:  :praise2:  :wine1:

Are the pins Loctited into the rollers or the rockers?
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 27, 2021, 12:08:02 PM
Looking good  :praise2: :praise2: :wine1:

Are the pins Loctited into the rollers or the rockers?


Hi Roger, thanks.


The pins are Loctited on one side into the rockers.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Vixen on May 27, 2021, 12:42:54 PM
Hello Achim,

Looking good  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Keep a close eye on those roller pins when the engine is run. There is not much Loctite holding them in place and rockers always experience a lot of hammering.

Mike
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 27, 2021, 01:18:38 PM
Another batch of nice new shiny parts  :)

Great that you caught the missing clearance before commiting to making the rest of the camlobes :ThumbsUp:


Hi Per, thanks.
To do fix it later would be possible, because the valve stem was untouched in this case.
But I thing it is useful to sort out as much as possible at an early stage.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 27, 2021, 01:25:58 PM
Hello Achim,

Looking good  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Keep a close eye on those roller pins when the engine is run. There is not much Loctite holding them in place and rockers always experience a lot of hammering.

Mike


Hi Mike, thanks for your advise.
I have had already mixed feelings when I assembled it.
In Dougs drawing is no special advise for this fit.
His has designed the holes with 0.0938" and the pins also, that´s it.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Vixen on May 27, 2021, 01:39:00 PM

Hi Mike, thanks for your advise.
I have had already mixed feelings when I assembled it.
In Dougs drawing is no special advise for this fit.
His has designed the holes with 0.0938" and the pins also, that´s it.

Hello Achim

Could you make some different pins, with a small flange at one end and drill and tap the other end M 1.5 ?

Or drill and tap M 1.5 both ends?

Mike
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 27, 2021, 02:02:45 PM

Hi Mike, thanks for your advise.
I have had already mixed feelings when I assembled it.
In Dougs drawing is no special advise for this fit.
His has designed the holes with 0.0938" and the pins also, that´s it.

Hello Achim

Could you make some different pins, with a small flange at one end and drill and tap the other end M 1.5 ?

Or drill and tap M 1.5 both ends?

Mike


Hi Mike as a plan B it should be possible, only one pin close to the big bevel gear could cause a collision.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: MJM460 on May 28, 2021, 11:16:15 AM
Hi Achim, the detail in your model just keeps getting better and better.  Your skill and methodical approach shows in every post.

MJM460

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Rustkolector on May 29, 2021, 04:20:11 AM
Achim,
I would upset the end of the cam roller pin just enough to create a little interference with the reamed pin hole in the rocker arm. Tap or squeeze the pin in place flush with both sides. Mark the end with interference should you need to drive the pin out in the future. If you decide to use a small dab of Loctite, put a small drop of it in one side of the rocker arm then insert the roller pin in the rocker arm from the opposite side of the rocker arm. Then oil the roller.
Jeff
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 29, 2021, 07:28:29 AM
Hi Achim, the detail in your model just keeps getting better and better.  Your skill and methodical approach shows in every post.

MJM460


Hi MJM460, thanks for watching and the friendly words.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on May 29, 2021, 07:37:12 AM
If you decide to use a small dab of Loctite, put a small drop of it in one side of the rocker arm then insert the roller pin in the rocker arm from the opposite side of the rocker arm. Then oil the roller.
Jeff


Hi Jeff, thanks for your recommendation, it is always  appreciated very much.
With the Loctite I have done it like you mentioned it above.
Also with the very fine drop of oil to prevent any blocking of the roller and checking the roller movement after some hours  of curing.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on June 01, 2021, 08:43:08 AM
Hi everybody, next challenge the cam lobes.
In my eyes tiny parts.
The available material in the base circle is a bit less than 2 mm.
So a 2 mm grub screw of the shelf is to long for the adjustment fixation.
To shorten 10 times a 2 mm grub screw is not my favorite job.
Some slots in shaft at the right place will necessary.
Anyway I do prefer a slot in places where grub screws meet a shaft to avoid any burr, which makes it difficult to pull the shaft out again through the bearings.
Milling by CNC an easy job.
The holes for the M2 grub screws, a job made the conventional way.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on June 01, 2021, 08:45:31 AM
.... and a first sample assembly with my set up part cylinder head #0.
eC4wZhVWKYE
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on June 01, 2021, 11:44:11 AM
That should work nicely Achim  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: RReid on June 01, 2021, 03:01:33 PM
I truly admire the work you've done on that. And thanks for the video!
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Kim on June 01, 2021, 06:18:20 PM
Very nice, Achim!  That video is great.  Watching it, it looks like the springs are fairly strong.  I assume that is intentional so the valves close quickly and follow the shape of the cams?

Kim
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on June 01, 2021, 06:59:10 PM
  I assume that is intentional so the valves close quickly and follow the shape of the cams?

Kim


Hi Kim, thanks.
Springs are always something with random here.
I have had a look  at the original design of Doug Kelley concerning dimensions and coils. 
Than I visit my favorite online shop her in Germany for this items.
https://www.federnshop.com/en/ (https://www.federnshop.com/en/)
At the end I do order something which is nearly in accordance with my metric dimensions and the original design.
The rest is hope, that it will work.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on June 01, 2021, 07:50:40 PM
Per, Ronald, thanks for popping in and the friendly comment
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Craig DeShong on June 02, 2021, 12:53:15 AM
Hi Achim

Like the video showing the cams, rockers, head, and valves.  Looks to work very well.  I’ve been following along with your posts, just haven’t been commenting much.  I really appreciate you work and attention to detail. :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Dave Otto on June 02, 2021, 01:13:32 AM
Hi Achim
Great progress!

Dave
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Don1966 on June 02, 2021, 03:45:30 AM
Achim …….I………..likeeeeeee…….. :Love:



 :drinking-41:
Don
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on September 17, 2021, 11:34:40 AM
Quite some time since last entry Achim - I hope that you are OK, and not one of them you lost everything in the horendes flooding this summer ....

Best wishes

Per
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Dave Otto on September 17, 2021, 05:40:08 PM
Quite some time since last entry Achim - I hope that you are OK, and not one of them you lost everything in the horendes flooding this summer ....

Best wishes

Per

I was thinking the same thing, hoping things are ok?

Dave
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on September 18, 2021, 02:44:48 PM
Hi Per,
Hi Dave,
thanks for asking and posting again to this thread.
I am fine, no reason for any worries.
The first summer time in retierment has changed my mind a bit.
So more outdoor activities has got more priority.
In the background I am just up grading my little CNC mill with a new spindle, a separate report will follow soon.
Also a new CAD model of the IHC Titan 50 HP is nearly finished, also here an introductoin will follow soon.
So I will be prepared for the comming winter time.
May be next week the BME will get some more attantion again also.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Vixen on September 18, 2021, 03:30:07 PM
Hello Achim

Welcome to the retirement club.  :wine1: :wine1:

Remember to get as much done as quickly as you can, before the energy levels begin to fade away.    It happens to us all.  :ThumbsDown:

Stay safe

Mike
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: vcutajar on September 18, 2021, 04:45:00 PM
Glad to hear that the floods did not affect you.

Vince
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: crueby on September 18, 2021, 04:49:58 PM
Glad you are doing well - outside activities in good weather are most important!

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Kim on September 18, 2021, 04:58:27 PM
Good to hear from you Achim!  Glad you're doing well, having fun, and enjoying retirement! :) :ThumbsUp:
Kim
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on September 18, 2021, 05:12:48 PM
Glad all is OK  :)  :)  :) A lot of people have adjusted their priorities in the current situation. We too are outside in nature whenever the weather allows.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on September 18, 2021, 07:09:31 PM
All good reasons not to post here - glad to hear that there's no problems  :cheers:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on October 07, 2021, 01:21:59 PM
Thanks all for the friendly comments.


Weather is getting colder so the shop will get more interest in near future again.
Looking at my last posting of the BME progress, there are some things missing if I look at the engine at the bench now.
I will try get it up to date step by step.
Nothing spectacular, but some, in my understanding very important and very necessary jobs to get the engine finally and hopefully running at the end.
I have bought from Roy at S/S a Satra 4 cylinder distributor and rotor.
The lower part of the distributor is not usable here, it will look more than ugly at this engine.
The parts are in the CAD now and my next job was to design a proper lower part for this unit.
My cam shaft is made by 5 mm drill rod but the rotor has 4,7 mm  hole only.
I thought it was better to adjust the shaft and not the rotor.
Everything has to be in the right position, also the gap between the rotating connector and the cap has get some attention.
After getting the final design now, I have started with the lower part of the distributor, made by a piece of black POM.
See pictures below, including one boo-boo.
I have needed two attempts to get the grove for adjustment into the right position.
Will be continued soon.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on October 07, 2021, 04:40:49 PM
Glad to see you back in the workshop  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:

Are you parting off with the tool upside down and the lathe in reverse?
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on October 07, 2021, 05:19:30 PM


Are you parting off with the tool upside down and the lathe in reverse?


Yes always.
Best results in all material and less stress for the lathe and operator.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on October 08, 2021, 07:56:40 AM
Hi everybody, for me a smooth strategy was necessary now, to get all these things done for a free turning camshaft there.
With so much variables, for me it was not so easy to decide the right order.
First step was to split it. So my idea was to assemble the valve train first as a stand alone assy.
My earlier made jig, the dummy cylinder head, to keep all liners in the right position, was the best for it now.
It is an aluminium plate with the hole pattern of the engine.
The camshaft adjusted axial in the right position in accordance with the distributor rotor insider the cap in its ideal position was the base.
To keep it later there, if the engine is running, my idea was adjust the camshaft by 2 spacers between cylinder #2 and #3.
Shown in the first picture below. The brass disc is a dummy gear, to be aware of this all the time and to check for all necessary clearance.
I wanted to do the very best and added two of the shelf 0,2 mm steel shims between the spacers and the camshaft brackets.
The idea was not bad, but the engine didn´t really like it. It shows me directly a collision between the rocker arm and the shim.
So I had to make some new, 0,2 mm wider, spacer.
Next job was to define the exact position of each cam at the shaft. As always, I will make grooves for the grub screws.
The reference end for a proper measurement is not really in an ideal condition, but I have to live with it now.
I thought earlier, to cut it to the final length is always an easy issue and can be done later.
So a Cardbord Assisted Design was necessary to define it.
And the conventional way to mark it at the shaft.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: scc on October 08, 2021, 09:20:51 PM
Nice work  :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:     Terry
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Don1966 on October 08, 2021, 10:55:06 PM
 :Love:



 :cheers:
Don
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on October 09, 2021, 07:49:27 AM
Terry, Don thanks for popping in and friendly comments.


Next action with the camshaft was to make carefully the groves into the drill rod.
The dummy gear was used to check if the final deburring by a small stone was successfully.
Than an optical final check against my dummy set up and with all cam lobes in position.
Now it was time to attack the last remaining gear ratio from the upright shaft to the cam shaft.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: MJM460 on October 09, 2021, 12:06:08 PM
Hi Achim,

Congratulations on your retirement.   

Good to see you working on the engine again.  Impressive work on that camshaft.  A lot of parts to fit in limited space.

MJM460

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on October 09, 2021, 12:29:44 PM
Hi Achim,

Congratulations on your retirement.   

Good to see you working on the engine again.  Impressive work on that camshaft.  A lot of parts to fit in limited space.

MJM460


Thanks, for watching.
Space is indeed an issue there at this valve train.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: gbritnell on October 09, 2021, 01:19:49 PM
Retirement is great when you have a hobby like this to keep busy with!
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on October 10, 2021, 12:51:10 PM
Retirement is great when you have a hobby like this to keep busy with!


Hi George, 100% agreed.




One of the last functional things to adjust, there at the valve train, the bevel gears.
First the up right shaft had to be cut to the right length.


For position check of the small gear some washers are added to keep it temporally.


Looking at the situation in place at the second picture, I have been a bit surprised.
The angle of both  bevel gears engaged didn´t look as expected and the sound of the motion was strange too.
For a better check I took them out again.


Some head scratching and irritation was the result after holding them in my hand like in the picture.
The first idea was, to have a look in the file folder, because there I have kept all labels from the  wrapping.
The printed part numbers are right, the Boston catalog says, this are the numbers for a set of bevel gears with 18 and 36 teeth.


Looking more detailed to the small gear, I could see the part number stamped into it, it says G461Y.
After another detailed view, I recognized this as the part number of an 18 teeth miter gear.
There is only one place where a miter gear is used in this engine, that is at the lower end of the upright shaft.
I have bought all Boston gears for this engine in one lot some time ago.
So the upcoming question, did I have made a mistake and the wrong gear is soldered into the spur gear down there ?
To get it clear the lower gears has been disassembled and checked alone.
As seen in picture 33, everything fine.


Than I took the 36 teeth bevel gear for the cam shaft  and made the visual check like in the last picture #32, it did not match.


So it was clear now, lower ratio and gears are correct.
One is stamped with G461Y, 18 teeth miter gear, the other one, soldered into the spur gear is the same and this lower pair does match each other.


So the very easy conclusion now, everything fine, excepted the very last upper ratio.
Labels from packing are right, but one gear was wrong.


I have bought all Boston gears via Amazon so far, the easiest and cheapest way concerning freight cost also.
It was coming via U.K. for less than EUR 10. May be today after the Brexit history also.
Looking nearly one week dally into the Amazon offers, this only gear as a replacement was currently not available.
If have found an industrial dealer in the Netherlands, he  has offered me the missing miter gear, only as a bunch of two for nearly  EUR 150,00.
It was still possible to order by one of the known American dealers, with a similar result concerning cost.


A new conclusion was coming up my mind which means, Achim it is time to say good bye to imperial ratios and gears.
It was easy so far using the imperial stuff of the shelf, no modification of surrounding design was necessary.
But I have to realize also, that currently "global" means the same as much more difficulties for me as a simple Model Engine Maker.
An order in the U.K is a nightmare too in the meantime.


In my understanding it is a pity, that after years of coming closer together in this world, the things are developing opposite way now again.
But for this case I have found an easy solution with some metric bevel gears, available of the shelf from the German company Mädler.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Don1966 on October 10, 2021, 05:04:44 PM
Now with all the time on your hand with retirement you can start making your own gears. You know it time to start Achim your a skillful builder and making gears like George does is very simple.  :stickpoke: :stickpoke:. If you don’t have my gear spreadsheets PM me your email address and I will send them to you with the latest revisions.


Regards Don
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on October 10, 2021, 09:02:06 PM
Aw - damn - that is quite annoying for you  :hammerbash:

How about https://www.amazon.de/ (https://www.amazon.de/) - they usually have the same things as the US and UK version - but NOT always ....

Best wishes   :cheers:

Per




Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on October 11, 2021, 07:24:15 AM
Aw - damn - that is quite annoying for you  :hammerbash:

How about https://www.amazon.de/ (https://www.amazon.de/) - they usually have the same things as the US and UK version - but NOT always ....

Best wishes   :cheers:

Per


Hi Per, thanks.
So fat I have never seen any Boston Gears at the German site. They have been available under .com only.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on October 11, 2021, 07:57:42 AM
Now with all the time on your hand with retirement you can start making your own gears. You know it time to start Achim your a skillful builder and making gears like George does is very simple.  :stickpoke: :stickpoke: . If you don’t have my gear spreadsheets PM me your email address and I will send them to you with the latest revisions.


Regards Don


Thanks Don. Good to know that there are some latest revisions of the spreadsheets. My filed away of them was done in 2016.


In spring time this year, when I have played around with my 4th axis at the CNC mill, there was already the idea to use it for gear cutting also.
I thought the computer will make less counting mistakes if the gear will turned around.
So I have had a look in the net and I did found a way to do it with Fusion 360 also.
It have made the whole procedure virtually one time already.
It is not so easy to define the tool shape for the library, but there is logical way to do it.
Fusion has an add-in to create spur gears, so the shape is easy made.
Than copying this shape of one tooth and the remaining information of the gear cutting tool (disc, diameter, thickness ....) is necessary to create the virtual tool for the library.
Below a sample picture of the spur gear tool, not related to the shown gear.
And how it could look like if all dimensions of a cutter are available.
So far I do own none, so the shown is pure assumed fantasy, but may be close.
Everything put together in Fusion give me the possibility of an milling operation simulation already.
3693HfH8YlgSo I am not so far away anymore, only thing my new spindle starts with min rpm of 3.000 u/min, if this will make it possible to cut brass in small steps ?
No idea so far. So may be a conventional good rotary table at the conventional mill and a well-rested operator is the other option.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on October 11, 2021, 08:20:21 AM
As already mentioned in the last BME related posting, I have find a set of bevel gears with similar diameter, same ratio, made from brass and modul 0,5 at company Mädler of the shelf. A CAD model could be downloaded easily. The virtual fit at the engine could be made immediately and has shown two possible collisions.
One at the bracket may be in CAD only, because I know my real part is a bit different to the CAD model there.
The other one with the rocker should easy avoided by some machining at the gear flange.
Another thing with the shaft bore at the small gear has to solved also. I have used a 1/8" drill rod as up right shaft here and this does not really fit into a 4 mm hole. 
But Loctite 648 and some curing over night has given the right basic to make a new 1/8" bore.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Craig DeShong on October 11, 2021, 11:21:42 PM
Hi Achim

Firstly, congratulations on your retirement.

Secondly, I'm following your build.  Don't have any specific comments to make, but your build is quite interesting and I'm following along.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on October 12, 2021, 12:25:37 PM
Hi Craig, thank you, glad to know you are with it.

Metric gears are ready for a sample assembly now and the real thing has shown it as expected.
The bracket was no problem, but the rocker and the gear do have a collision.
This was easily solved at the lathe.
Next another  sample assembly with some slip gauges as spacers.
And these tiny holes for the grab screws to suit.
The final position for the grove, needed for the grub screws of the big bevel gear will be defined later, with a hopefully final assembly.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on October 13, 2021, 06:38:46 AM
Hi everybody, here is the point, no room for excuses anymore, I have to attack the hopefully final assembly now.

Everything should come together at the cylinder heads and valve train now.


First idea was to do a basic adjustment of the valve clearance of each cylinder head.
So the later one may is only a minor job than.
The valve train is still assembled at the fixture plate, so I used  my set up part, cylinder head #0  for this job.


The further scheduled strategy for head assembly is:
Alignment of the 4 cylinder heads to each other at the engine with the help of the intake manifold.
Than to bolt the heads down to the engine at each cylinder with the final torque.
If this is done one time, marking the manifold and do the powder coating of it.
Some blackening of the steel washers.


A boo boo at the powder coating.
What could be seen there is the result of a lazy guy, he did not take care about a proper cleaning of the part.
Specially the holes and bores do need some extra attention, otherwise some reaming oil or grease will start floating out  of the holes and will creep under the fresh powder in the heat of 180°C.
Two options, to try the different solutions, shown in the net, to get ride of it for a new coating or to leave it like it is and it will be a very special note of this build.
The last one is my favorite.


     
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Kim on October 13, 2021, 03:33:04 PM
Looking good Achim!
Sorry about the powder coating mishap.  You'll have to give that guy a firm talking to!  But it isn't so bad.  I'm betting it won't be noticeable on the final assembly anyway.

Can't wait to see it all come together now!

Kim
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on October 15, 2021, 07:52:18 AM
Kim thanks for watching.
As you said already, at the end it will hidden in the overall picture.


I am reporting here about all the action, already done in May and June this year.
Now I have seen I forgot to show a video, which was made with metric gears and the set up cylinder #0.
G3HJ74wi1bo
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on October 15, 2021, 11:05:46 AM
Good progress and some good solutions to problems  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1: Not long until the valve gear is assembled  :)  :)
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on October 16, 2021, 08:20:58 AM
Thanks Roger.




Hopefully final assembly of the intake manifold and cylinder heads.
The carb does not look like an alien there anymore, may be a reason to leave it uncoated.
Cylinder heads are in line now, adjusted by the intake manifold.
All cylinder heads bolted down with there final black nuts and 1 Nm of torque.
Now up to the other side, exhaust manifold, the tricky one with coolant in it.
First attempt to bolt in on directly followed by the next boo boo.
My Chinese ground down socket collapsed at the third M2 nut alerady.
I have been sure, that this will be my not my last attempt to assemble so something has to be changed.
First of all a Wera socket, same good quality as the well known Wiha tools, was ordered.
The manifold has find its way to the conventional mill again and some space for the socket was made.
Now I have been ready for some leakage testing, because this exhaust manifold is also the coolant outlet of the engine.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on October 18, 2021, 08:11:58 AM
Water inlet, cylinder and cylinder heads are all checked for leakage so far.
Single components and the assemblies also.



Now the last tricky part has to be assembled too, the exhaust manifold with the integrated water outlet.
The heads are aligned by the intake manifold so we will see how correct the alignment is at the other side for the exhaust manifold.


But first pressurizing attracted  my attentions  to another failure.
Air was coming out of one threaded hole for side cover fixation.
A to late check of the CAD date has shown the reason.
I did know for sure, that I have turned the hole pattern a bit to avoid this not desired leakage, but it seems I did not do a proper check.
A very small piece of paper at the lower end of the M2 hole and some epoxy glue, curing over night, should have solved this problem.
The day after this leakage was gone and I could concentrate to the others.


As already suspected, not all 4 faces between cylinder head and manifold has been water proof.
These here used gasket has a 0,25 mm thickness and a 0,5 mm is prepared as Plan B already.
But, how could it be otherwise, plan B failed also.
The reason for this I see in these very thin and long M2 studs. It is not possible to give the necessary torque to it.
 
Plan C was now to try some  silicon as gasket material. I could find a source and have ordered a piece, 0,6 mm of thickness.
I have never cut this stuff with my plotter so far and if this will fail also a plan D was needed.It is not so much space there, but may be an O-ring could do it also.The water hole has to be bigger in the above mentioned 0,5 mm Abil N gasket and an O-ring will be used as an inlay.Some suitable O-rings had to be ordered too and I have got some time to do the powder coating of the manifold and water pipe until the gasket stuff will arrive. 
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on October 18, 2021, 10:00:07 AM
The engine looks fantastic  :praise2:

I hope that you solve the leak problem without having to make new parts. On my motorcycles I usually smear a thin line of liquid gasket onto the gaskets in critical areas - that might do the trick for you too.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: derekwarner on October 18, 2021, 10:03:14 AM
Achim............gasket wafer plates [with contained/constrained o-rings] similar to the ones you show are common in CETOP 3 hydraulic engineering interfaces where you have two valve elements in sandwich configuration with each element having flat faces

The area where they differ is the 4 x retaining bolts are in a rectangular pattern, toward the outer corners of the plates

The gasket material or Teflon sheeting you are using will have the tendency to distort with increasing tension on the 2 x M2 Bolts

On consideration for a trial could be to use galvanised steel sheet of say 1mm thick. Another possibility would be to ensure you use softer 70 Duro Viton o-rings [of a correspondingly increased cross section]

When tightening the M2 bolts in a trial assembly, you could literally measure any deflection of the plate at the extremities. If this did occur, an increase in thickness of the steel sheet could be considered

If the steel sheet plates proved satisfactory, the final version could be carbon steel, then nickel plated which would protect the annular ring x the thickness of the plate viz of the cooling fluid holes

Derek 

[example CETOP 3 wafer sealing plate below]
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on October 18, 2021, 12:04:41 PM
Per, Derek thanks for your answers and recommendations to solve this sealing issue.


To use a special liqiud gasket will solve the problem for sure, but I am afraid, that it will increase disassembly massive too.
This high tec stuff can be like a glue.


Derek concerning the gasket material I do not really worry.
See the data sheet below, no Teflon it is Silikon VMQ.
Sorry in German language only, but hardness of rubber measured in shore should be international.
It seems to be a bit softer than a soft O-ring like VMQ O-rings, they do have normally 70 shore.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Craig DeShong on October 18, 2021, 02:40:48 PM
Achim

A bit late on this discussion but I use high temperature red Permatex for all my gaskets.  Years ago I built one of the Debolt kits and they recommended this for all the gaskets.  It worked so well I've adopted it for all my gaskets ever since.

It sets up to a flexible 'rubber' consistency.  If you let it 'dry' for 24 hours, you can just scrape the excess off with a sharp knife and get a nice clean edge.  Dis=assembly is fairly easy, with a strong pull it comes apart.  If you really want to be able to readily dis-assemble the parts, place a film of oil on them before applying the Permatex.

Don't know if it's available in Germany, but I would think so.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: derekwarner on October 19, 2021, 12:13:30 AM
mmmmmmm...crazy engineering..... :happyreader:

Durometer hardness was a scale of hardness established by American Chemist AF Shore & hence a hardness of Shore in the various scale ranges

I don't think that it can be considered Imperial or Metric

At College we spoke of elastomers of ?? Shore A, B or D hardness
In industry we specify or request  0-rings of 70 or 90 Duro

That Silicone sheet is probably about ~~60 Shore A...very soft ..

And as Craig says, Permetex is a quality liquid Silicone......Internationally distributed in about 6 different colours
much like that exotic coloured GOOP our Grand kids get stuck in carpet  :facepalm:

I have used Blue coloured Permetex for steam @ 3 Bar [~~135 degrees C],  on 3/4" diameter equal sized bolted flange sets for 1/8" diameter tube, so a reasonable surface footprint between mating flanges....absolutely leak free......I ensured the flange faces were degreased & oil free ...however only squeezed up against 3 small lengths of 0.006" wire inserted at the edges, which provided a consistent gasket thickness

Placement is also critical, as you have a very thin semi annular arc between a water gallery port & the chamfered clearance hole for the M2 bolts - not sure for the large chamfer?

I found the remaining contents [75%] of Permatex air cured in the tube within 3 weeks of opening .....to be unusable

Derek
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on October 19, 2021, 08:13:33 AM
Craig, Derek
thank you very much for your the recommendation of these high temp silicon compound.


Peramtex I have not heard so far, but it is available in Germany.
A quick cross check has shown, that this stuff is available from different vendors.
I have found
Permatex red
K2 Siliocon
Fli
Mannol
Zollex
ELRING Dirko HT (https://www.elring.com/fileadmin/Dateiablage_DE/2Service/Datenblaetter/Technische_Dichtmassen/Dirko_HT_rot/Dirko_HT_Rot_TDB_2020_DE.pdf)
and others
I think Elring is a world wide known company for any kind of sealing technology.
Unfortunately the link to the English version of the data sheet is currently out of order, may be it will be available at local distributes in other countries.
Surly this type of liquid paste, as already mentioned by Per in his posting, would be an alternative solution too.
With its hardness of shore A 30 it will be softer than my ordered silicon sheet.
And as already mentioned by Derek before, a one time opened tube will not last very long, due to its property of curing with air contact.
But never the less, sure a very good solution also for this kind of application.


There is the entitled question about the largeness of the champfer.
To be honest, I do not know why I have done it so large.
This has happened during the cylinder head machining in January already and it seems, that I have made their a simple mistake, developed by my machining order.
The first picture below does show, that water and exhaust ports are drilled by the same diameter, this was done by one operation at the CNC mill.
The chamfering is done immediately afterward already.
The opening of the exhaust port hole to its final diameter was done later at the conventional mill, second picture below.
But there it was as its is now already.
Something to do better next time.

Never the less after getting the silicon sheet in my hands, immediately an attempt to cut it with my plotter was done.
After a dry cleaning as good as possible I have used an older cutting mat with very good results, see pictures below.

But before I will go ahead here, there was another stupid story to report about.
During all the sample assemblies so far, some M 1,6 mm hexagon socket head screws has been used for the fixation of the coolant outlet pipe with its two flanges, four each. That was easy to handle with the allen key from above.
Optical vise not nice and the idea was to replace these bolts by hex bolts at the final assembly.
During the powder coating the tube has been assembled with gaskets and one bolt each flange only.
Picture of my totally failed attempt below.
The other CAD picture does show the situation with my so far available 2,5 mm spanner.
The measured width is 2,66 mm, which allows a lot of movement until it really grab the head and than it is to late because the collision out side against the flange has happen already. So no chance to fix it with this available spanner.
In the net at company Knupfer I have found something much more suitable, see picture below.
Until today I have not made another attempt to change the bolts, but I will do so, latest when I try to repair the coating.
There is a method to use a kind of resin mixed with the relevant powder, never done so far, but I will try it after the leakage problem is solved.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: derekwarner on October 19, 2021, 11:29:42 AM
Yes, Knupfer have an excellent range & good people to deal with  :ThumbsUp:.........

You could consider partial flat boring of the chamfer, provide controlled heating & fill the counterbore/chamfer with high temperature soft solder

Remachine the flange face flat to true, which will provide a greater width section footprint for a Permatex liquid gasket between the cooling water port & the M2 clearance holes

Derek
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on October 19, 2021, 02:22:46 PM
Hi Derek, good to know that these spanners  are also known at your part of the world.

Concerning the big chamfer at the upper hole, exhaust port, I do not really worry.
If some exhaust fumes will find the way to the M2 stud, that will not be a big disaster, but seems to be unlikely due to the big open door into the manifold.

More important for me is, that the lower hole will be sealed, so no coolant can leave the system at this specific crossover.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on October 19, 2021, 07:05:25 PM
Achim - every time I look at the pictures of the 'Port end' of your cylinder heads - I can't help wonder what keeps them in perfect alignment with the Exhaust / Cooling Manifold ....  :thinking:
It's not like a cylinder head for multiple cylinders were all the mating surfaces are done in a single pass ....

So I would think that it either had some flexible gaskets or a special sequence of spanning that ensures perfect alignment ....

No matter what - I look forward to see a runner, that you are happy with  :cheers:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on October 20, 2021, 12:08:06 PM
Hi Per, my assembly order should support the alignment as much as possible.


First the Cylinder heads on the cylinders only stuck over the studs.
Next the intake manifold bolted  against all the cylinder heads.
This should give my basic alignment of all 4 heads against the flat surface of the intake manifold.
This is followed by the fixation of the cylinder heads by most of their nuts and one screw with the torque of 1 Nm.
Now we have a given surface over all 4 heads at the exhaust side.
I have made a check with a straight edge, the result was not so bad.


The main problem seems to be more in the weak long M2 studs and the small M2 Nuts, because now change for a big torque there.


But nevertheless, the exhaust manifold was assembled with a reasonable torque by the sensible fasteners with the silicon gasket.
Pressure test was fine no leakage anymore.
Also the usage of some leak detection spray at all surfaces around the interface heads to manifold was inconspicuous that day.
All these operations were done end of May already, before my summer break.
If it will be the same under running conditions, no idea.
It it will last for longer and the silicon will keep the elasticize, no idea.
May be in the next days I will repeat the leakage test, the pressure loss measuring device is under the bench still, very close to the engine.
   
Yesterday the cotton covers has been lifted again
Next challange, assembly of the camshaft with its brackets to the cylinder heads.
I know, that also in the height of each cylinder is a minor difference, so the shaft will have a good reasons for some clamping.
To adjust this aliment, my idea was the usage of some paper shims.
I have drawn the shape in Fusion, outer shape 0,2 mm smaller than the contour of the camshaft brackets, the holes 0,2 mm bigger than necessary.
Currently we do have some shims with 0,1 / 0,2 / 0,3 mm width, four of each, cut with my plotter last week already.
The brackets will be assembled with 2 still remaining studs/nuts to the head/cylinder, with the torque of 1 Nm also.
So no excuses anymore, I have to enter this minefield now too.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Craig DeShong on October 20, 2021, 09:48:36 PM
a one time opened tube will not last very long, due to its property of curing with air contact.

Double bagging in zip-lock sandwich bags will greatly prolong the life of a tube, and I really mean double bagging.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on November 03, 2021, 06:41:02 AM
a one time opened tube will not last very long, due to its property of curing with air contact.

Double bagging in zip-lock sandwich bags will greatly prolong the life of a tube, and I really mean double bagging.


Hi Craig, good idea, thanks.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on November 03, 2021, 07:20:18 AM
Some further progress is done.
The camshaft is first time assembled with full torque at all cylinder head nuts with the camshaft brackets in final position.
And the for me very good news, free turning is still possible.
A disassembly of all rockers and rocker shafts was necessary to get clearance for the socket and torque wrench.
I could archive this free turning by an alignment of the camshaft bores with my already prepared paper shims under two brackets.
The thick ones with 0,3 mm has not been needed, only the 0,1 and 0,2 mm.
If the engine will keep this alignment, also if heated in running conditions ? No idea.
But if necessary it can be readjusted, some more shims are available.
The metric Mädler crown wheel has created a minor collision, as already expected here (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,7527.msg242308.html#msg242308).
A couple of 0,1 mm material has to be removed and the problem was solved. A black Edding will repair the optical appearance nearly complete, anyway it is in a hidden corner.
Next  to do, to shorten the camshaft left hand side to its final length.
Final adjustment off the bevel gear set, the spots for the grub screws are already at the relevant places at both shafts now.
Before I start a hopefully final reassembly with the lobes and spacers, I have to take of the exhaust manifold again.
That should be necessary to get clearance for the timing adjustment of each cam and to tighten the grub screws at the pinion gear.
As I mentioned earlier, that was the reason for me to prefer a cut seal and not to use any sealing compound, if not really necessary.
Hopefully it will be sealed again after the reassembling of the exhaust manifold.
oaeIwpwTgIQ
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on November 03, 2021, 11:33:56 AM
I think that you are right about most people will never notice the 'Ajustments / Tweaks' made for the revised layout. It can't be long before first pop  :cheers:

Per
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on November 05, 2021, 07:53:20 PM
Looking good  :praise2:  :praise2: As Per says not long now  :)  :wine1:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Don1966 on November 05, 2021, 11:00:10 PM
Awesome achim ……. :Love:


Don
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on December 04, 2021, 01:20:16 PM

Per, Roger, Don, thanks for watching.


Here another progress report.
Timing the next adventure, first time that I  have to adjust 8 single lobes at a camshaft.
First job here, a big timing disc made from white acrylic glass.
That was the basic, for this engine a special drawing/paper disc was made and glued at the basic disc with some double-faced adhesive tape.
Hopefully a good idea to avoid mistakes.
At the very first, a fine adjustment of the valve clearance, all between 0,15 and 0,2 mm.
Next pictures my high sophisticated set up for the measurement of the valve lifting.
Here a short video of the movement.
9tfaH-TcC68I am coming close to it now.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on December 05, 2021, 06:31:05 AM
Some more necessary helpers were made.
A spark plug adapter for the 10-40 UNS Rimfire plug. A set of 4 pieces.
These should help to check and to see the spark, if it really is available at each cylinder.
It is a long way after it is generated in the ignition system down in the base, going up to the distributor, leaded there to the relevant cylinder and followed its way to the plugs.
Also a starter dog for this crankshaft was missing so far.
I took the drive pin, as used for the Snow Engine earlier and made something suitable for this crankshaft.
My crankshaft has got a M5 thread in each end, so an easy connection by a bolt is the plan.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on December 05, 2021, 07:54:55 AM
I like the idea of your spark plug adaptors so you can see what is going on  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:

How did you cut the ramps on the starter dog? I have tried various milling set ups but now just use files.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on December 05, 2021, 09:30:24 AM
I like the idea of your spark plug adaptors so you can see what is going on  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :wine1:

How did you cut the ramps on the starter dog? I have tried various milling set ups but now just use files.


Hi Roger,
we had a long discussion at the Fusion Forum some month ago there.
To do it really proper in design and cam operation is a real pain in a......
Also with Fusion.
So I have done it in two set ups only at the conventional mill.
As shown in the first picture,  the vice to the table with nearly 144° to Y.
Than a straight milling in Y the slot is done 0,5 mm wider than the pin.
Pins are 3 mm the slot is 3,52 mm.
Flipping the dog in the vice by 180° and doing it again.
That`s all, no filing was necessary.
The material chosen is CK45, so a heating to cheery red and some cold water should have given the necessary hardness, hopefully.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on December 06, 2021, 02:57:02 PM
Hi everybody,
the blue box under the bench has got some attention now.
So powder coating again.
The long water pipe was nearly to big for my toaster oven.
But with 2 pieces of wood and some wire the problem was solved.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on December 07, 2021, 08:48:45 AM
Attack to the last remaining things.
The high voltage wiring has to be made.
I am not sure if it will work like this, so plan B is to make some small caps from POM to cover the nut and cable socket for better isolation.
First the epoxy glue has to cure for one night.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on December 07, 2021, 08:40:04 PM
Those spacings look rather small to me for ignition voltages  ::)
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Kim on December 08, 2021, 12:19:11 AM
Could you angle the upper ones outward?  Away from the others?  That would give you a little more clearance, but you still have the center one snaking between two other posts...

Kim
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on December 08, 2021, 09:56:48 AM
Hi Roger, Kim thanks for watching and and your comments.
I am afraid also that all is to close at these distributor cap there in my way to do the wiring,
But step by step.
Here are first some pictures of the final wiring.
And how the main HV cable find its way from the base to the distributor.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 10, 2022, 10:31:46 AM
Hi everybody,
some progress here.
Before Christmas I have been able to get the first pops, when suddenly the CDI stopped working totally.
Roy from S/S was very helpful at the diagnostic support.

At the end I have a new CDI system here now, it is assembled and is working quite well.
The engine does fire and does burn fuel also, but currently it will not really run on its own.
PcMTY4QMZIoI can feel that it starts to get power and sometimes it is turning faster than the cordless screwdriver, but if I take it off is does not go ahead alone.
Any ideas are very much appreciated.
Compression test was done again already before Christmas and was fine.
   
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: RReid on January 10, 2022, 02:57:16 PM
Well, it's certainly close and it sounds great while it is running. I have no doubt you will soon get it sorted. You've done a wonderful job on that engine, with very nice detailing. Congratulations!  :ThumbsUp: :cheers:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Kim on January 10, 2022, 03:12:53 PM
Yes, you're certainly close!  I don't have IC experience so can't give you any input there, but it looks great and sounds really good while it's going.  I know you'll get there!

Kim
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 10, 2022, 03:17:19 PM
Hi Ron, thanks.
I have an enemy to attack already.
I have the feeling the carb is with the 3 mm Venturi a bit to small.
Just checked the recommendation of Doug Kelley again and he has written 0,17" (4,318 mm) Venturi should be fine.
A 4,5 mm venture carb is available, so next to do is making an adapter.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 10, 2022, 03:17:54 PM
Yes, you're certainly close!  I don't have IC experience so can't give you any input there, but it looks great and sounds really good while it's going.  I know you'll get there!

Kim


Hi Kim, thanks.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on January 10, 2022, 08:20:28 PM
Sounds very promising - so you can't be far of a sustained run :ThumbsUp:

I can't make out if you are trying to open the Throttle fully with your finger in the video and if that is where you are closest to it running by itself ....

Next thought : if you require an adapter to fit the bigger Carburetor - will you get a bigger area in the smallest diameter all the way to either where the Manifold divides or will it not be the Venturi that is the smallest ?
It should make a difference, if it's still the Venturi with the bigger Carburetor.

The model looks great  :praise2:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 11, 2022, 07:08:21 AM
Sounds very promising - so you can't be far of a sustained run :ThumbsUp:

I can't make out if you are trying to open the Throttle fully with your finger in the video and if that is where you are closest to it running by itself ....

Next thought : if you require an adapter to fit the bigger Carburetor - will you get a bigger area in the smallest diameter all the way to either where the Manifold divides or will it not be the Venturi that is the smallest ?
It should make a difference, if it's still the Venturi with the bigger Carburetor.

The model looks great  :praise2:


Hi Per, thanks.


The throttle in the video must kept totally open, otherwise the engine will stop any firing.
I have had this never before with my engines builds so far.


The other questions I will try to answer with some pictures.
They are showing the overall situation at the engine with small and bigger carb.
The bigger carb with 4,5 mm bore in the throttle barrel will be installed as a experiment.
Here I will have the chance to reduce the air flow easily by decreasing the hole in the adapter, may be to 4 mm.
If it will be the right way than I will try to overcome my awe and build a suitable carb with right dimension by my own.
Some planes, which can be suitable adapted are available.
So let´s start the experiments.
I am curious what will happen.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on January 11, 2022, 11:38:10 AM
That should help, as far as I can tell from your fine documentation.

I would consider having the same inside diameter in the adaptor as the output diameter of the Carburator - in order to have as few changes in the flow as possible - but this is just a detail.
Sorry I just looked again and see that this isn't possible - so just camfer the edges of the adaptor.

Per
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on January 11, 2022, 11:50:50 AM
Almost there  :)  :)  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:

Have you rechecked the valve and ignition timing in case something has moved/slipped?
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 11, 2022, 01:52:42 PM
Almost there  :) :) :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Have you rechecked the valve and ignition timing in case something has moved/slipped?


Hi Roger, thanks.


Just in with my head, in the middle of the cam gears.
Last night at the end of my experiments I have played around with the ignition timing also.
One time I have been to early I assume.
One lobe of cylinder one came loose and one roller and pin falls off. I have been really early  :mischief:
But this morning with old and new carb no firing anymore.
The engine is pumping pressure into the inlet manifold, so now there is definitive something slipped.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: gbritnell on January 11, 2022, 04:38:26 PM
Hi Achim,
The very first thing to check when an engine has trouble starting is the cylinder sealing, rings and valves. Most times with small engines it's the valve sealing. Once you have proven that the sealing is good and therefore the compression is good it's time to go to the ignition timing. Usually I start at 15 degrees BTDC. This should always get you close. I left the carburetion for last for good reason, it's generally the least important of the 3 elements. Without a specific size you are always better to start small. An engine will run with a small carb easier than it will with a large carb. Start with the throttle about 1/4 open and the needle valve about 1/2 turn. While turning the engine over put your finger over the carb inlet for just a second to choke the engine. It should fire and try to run. If does run but stalls right away then open the needle another quarter of a turn. (3/4 open). Now do the same thing. Crank the engine and choke it just for an instant. Keep repeating this process until the engine continues to run. Now you can adjust the carb for the best running.
I would advise against trying to start the engine with the carb wide open. At slow starting speeds there isn't a good vacuum signal with the carb wide open. If you are using an air bleed type carb once you get the engine running try to throttle it. If it stalls then the needle valve needs to be opened a little more. The needle valve is only for high speed running and the air bleed screw is to adjust the mixture at idle or slow speeds.
gbritnell
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 12, 2022, 07:49:45 AM
Hi George, thanks for poping in and the, as always, very good and useful comments and advises.
The way you have recommended here to start an engine is nearly 100% the way I go too.


In this case here the throttle in the carb is always fully open, otherwise there will be no firing
Closing it a bit only and no firing anymore.
That is the reason why I will try a bigger carb, as mentioned before, my here used carb is by the surface, d=3 mm/ A=7,069 mm².
Doug has recommended a carb with d=0.17"/ 4,318 mm / A=14,644 mm²
That means I am trying it with half of the recommended surface here, that is the reason for me to change this.


My try and error with the advanced ignition, without any proper figures and measuring two days ago has cause a movement of the crown wheel at the camshaft.
After taking the distributor cap off I could see the mess.
Crankshaft at cylinder #1 at TDC, the hole gear train is in the right position, including the crown wheel at the camshaft.
I have marked the top position for better orientation. That was a good idea.
In this position the distributor finger should point exactly to cylinder #1, that was the basic adjustment.
Now its position is nearly half between two ignition cable points at the cap, ca. 45° before cylinder #1.
That would explain why I have measured all cam timing (all lobes) nearly 90° after/later the originally adjusted positions.
The hole camshaft is now nearly 45° behind the crankshaft.
My conclusion, during the experiments with the advanced ignition the mass of the crank train has been one time a bit to big for the connection of the crown wheel to the cam shaft. There are 2 grab screws at two spots at the shaft.
How it can slip I have not understand so far, I try to find out.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on January 12, 2022, 01:02:22 PM
The shock loadings from the camshaft can be quite large. Is there a possibility that the crownwheel and pinion driving the camshaft could be jumping teeth?
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 12, 2022, 03:18:26 PM
The shock loadings from the camshaft can be quite large. Is there a possibility that the crownwheel and pinion driving the camshaft could be jumping teeth?


Hi Roger, no idea.
To understand it completely it needs a partly disassembly that I can push the crown wheel beside.
That means to solve all 4 intake lobes and pull the shaft a bit to the left, than the crown wheel will be pushed to the right with this action an the surface of the relevant spot under the CW will be visible.
At the end it will be the necessary job to do.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Dan Williams on January 12, 2022, 09:58:21 PM
Hi Achim,
 Again, I appreciate your response to my PM regarding cam lobe adjustment on this engine. At this point in my build, I got some consistent firing with a 3mm carb and that was at part throttle. I have yet to get it to run consistently and continuously on it's own. When it tries to run, it just eats up the fuel prime right now.

I don't think you have a carb size issue at this point. I suspect your cam and ignition timing slippages are your main issue. I've had multiple issues with cam lobe slippage, crown gear slippage and pinion gear slippage. I resorted to machining flats where all the gears fit their shafts, but now my only way of adjusting cam timing is with the lobes. These small setscrews make it difficult to get a good, firm grip on the shaft.
My biggest issue with the overall design of the engine is in the cam drivetrain. Disassembly to correct any sort of issue means total re-timing of the camshaft.

Good luck sorting it all out. 

Dan
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 16, 2022, 02:59:51 PM
Hi Daniel,
I have to say you have been right.
It is possible to run the BME with a 3 mm carb.
After some maintenance and a new adjustment of all timing another attempt to get it running at its own.
Et voila.
8qUb62jXW6sMy engine will just idle with this small 3 mm carb, to give more throttle impossible, it is fully open already.
But now there will be first some other things on the to do list.
Sealing the wooden floor will by #1 to do.
Followed by the assembly of the whole cooling system again.
If all this is done I will try it with another carb again.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Kim on January 16, 2022, 04:45:10 PM
Excellent!
Congratulations on getting it running, Achim!   :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:

Kim
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Dave Otto on January 16, 2022, 05:57:52 PM
Congratulations Achim!
That has got to a great feeling of accomplishment for you have it running.
Sounds good too!

Dave
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on January 16, 2022, 07:43:30 PM
That sounds rather better  :)  :)  :wine1: Did you find where the timing had slipped?
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on January 16, 2022, 08:43:43 PM
That must have a relief to you - congratulations, you got a very nice runner (even if only in idle)  :praise2:

Per
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: crueby on January 16, 2022, 08:54:22 PM
Excellent!!  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Don1966 on January 17, 2022, 02:23:55 AM
 :ThumbsUp:


Don
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Dan Williams on January 17, 2022, 09:01:32 PM
Outstanding! Glad you have it running more consistently now. They certainly do take some adjusting, that's for sure. I may make a new camshaft with flats 90 degrees offset for both intake and exhaust, making sure of the correct angle difference between intake and exhaust, to keep the cam lobes from working loose. Those tiny setscrews sure don't hold all that well.

After running mine for a bit, I decided that I'd better get the cooling system finished. It got rather warm!

Dan
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 18, 2022, 08:17:03 AM
Thanks you very much to all of you how have watched and written the friendly word.
I do appreciate it very much to get any feedback.


Daniel, here a picture of my solution with the connection lobes to shaft.
This has increased the possible length of the grub screws at bit.


Under the crown wheel are to flats for the two grub screws.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 18, 2022, 08:27:35 AM
That sounds rather better  :) :) :wine1: Did you find where the timing had slipped?


Roger thanks.


The position of the crown wheel at the shaft has slipped.
I could recognize when I toke the distributor cap off.
Crank shaft and CW has been in the right relationship to each other.
Easy to check, because I have made a marker at TDC #1 at the CW.
But the finger has had a position of half way to #1 ignition wire now.
Original adjusted in December was pointing exactly to the little piece of tape, what indicates cylinder #1.
 
   
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Rustkolector on January 18, 2022, 03:38:55 PM
Achim,
The 3mm carb is more than adequate to run your B-M at a considerable load factor, but it is a crudely made carb designed for alcohol fuel and high reviving engines. As such it takes a little bit of work to improve operation on gasoline and even more to run propane. Once done it makes a pretty good little self compensating carb. The threaded sleeve on the needle shaft often leaks air through the needle threads giving an erratic fuel mixture at the lower intake manifold pressure and slower speed of a 4 stroke engine. Use a short stack of 1x3 mm O-rings to seal at the bottom of the needle sleeve. Make sure you use the O-ring to seal the carb to the intake manifold. The barrel opening at 600 RPM idle should be almost closed when using propane. I have never tried liquid fuel on this engine. Your need to run at wide open throttle is not normal for this carb.

I have not had the trouble you seem to be having with the cam gear and cam lobe set screws loosening. As you initially adjust these parts numerous times the cup head set screws very quickly become worn and no longer grip as they should. In doing your timing adjustments do not repeatedly reuse the same set screws. There should be two set screws on each gear hub and cam lobe at 90 degrees apart. Once you find the right timing install new set screws one at a time. On small set screws put the short end of the wrench in the set screw and using the long end, tighten until the long end deflects about 30 degrees. This is as tight as they need to be and DO NOT use a thread locking compound. Regrind your  wrench tips frequently. 

The B-M is meant to be a slow constant speed engine and as such uses no crankshaft counter weights. It does not need stiff valve springs. Make sure you used the same spring wire diameter and spring dimensions as listed on the plans. The listed springs are good for well over 3000 RPM. 

What cam timing are you using? I noticed a spark plug shorting to ground.
Jeff
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 18, 2022, 04:26:35 PM
Hi Jeff thanks a lot for visiting and all the helpful comments.
Good idea to replace the grub screws.
I have tried it all the time to handle them very smooth and carefully.
I will attack it to build a carb by my own.
A CAD model is available already.
The original design is from Malcolm Stride, publishes with his Lynx engine plans.
I have modified the venturi, decreased to 4 mm.
At the pictures how it should look like.


My timing is adjusted as recommended in Doug´s description.
The exhaust does start to open at 40° before BDC.
The intake at 10° after TDC.
Ignition is 5° before TDC.


The assembly with the cooling will start shortly, than I will do some more experiments.

 
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on January 18, 2022, 05:16:50 PM
Hi Achim,

There is a little design trick in these simple carbs, the bore on the air intake side is larger that the bore on the outlet side that gives a measure of mixture compensation. For a given engine the sizes are found by experimentation. Fine adjustment can be made with an air bleed screw.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on January 19, 2022, 12:18:19 PM
That was a very interesting little tidbit Roger - do you have any reference, or was it just told verbaly to you ?

Nice CAD work Achim - I hope it will solve your last problem  :ThumbsUp:

Per
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Rustkolector on January 19, 2022, 03:34:40 PM
Achim,
Have you verified the closing degrees of all your valves. The closing degrees are very important.
Jeff
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 19, 2022, 03:59:08 PM
Achim,
Have you verified the closing degrees of all your valves. The closing degrees are very important.
Jeff


Hi Jeff, to be honest, no.
Not so far.
I have only done the adjustment with focus at the opening of every single valve.
At the next opportunity I can do this.
Do you have any values/figures as reference ?


Today was the day of assembling the entire components again.



Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Dave Otto on January 19, 2022, 04:17:49 PM
Wow that looks nice!!

Dave
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Kim on January 19, 2022, 05:29:09 PM
Wow is right! That's Beautiful, Achim!

Kim

PS The little red fire extinguisher detail really caught my eye.  Love those tiny details!
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: RReid on January 20, 2022, 01:26:29 AM
That really does look wonderful. The "base as mini-diorama" really sets the engine off well, and also puts it into context.  :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Rustkolector on January 20, 2022, 04:59:13 AM
Achim,
You need to verify valve opening and closing degrees to determine the correct valve duration. When things don't work as expected, it is a logical place to start looking for the problem. Nominal durations: I - 200, E - 220 with no overlap at TDC.
Jeff
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Craig DeShong on January 20, 2022, 09:54:37 AM
Great to see you have your model running.  It looks fantastic. 
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: gbritnell on January 20, 2022, 11:45:36 AM
Truly outstanding work!  The whole presentation is wonderful!
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: ShopShoe on January 20, 2022, 01:30:28 PM
Pardon my late reply.....

I'm glad to see the final version of this engine completed.

I have to say that I think you are a confirmed detail worker who wants to make it exactly the way you plan it and I admire the way you went about it and I enjoyed every post you made.

If you start something new, I will be following.

ShopShoe
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on January 20, 2022, 08:37:48 PM
That was a very interesting little tidbit Roger - do you have any reference, or was it just told verbaly to you ?

Per

I found this by a number of routes. L C Mason refers to a carb with two butterflies, one before the jet and one after and the relationship between them. I have a couple of commercial carbs that I have modified for my engines and noted that the air intake bore was bigger that the bore in the barrel and the engine side bore. If you go to the extreme and make the inlet side bore bigger than the air intake side you will end up drawing neat fuel and no air. For a high volume production finding the optimal bore can be done by experiment. For a one off as soon as you open the air intake past the optimum you have to make a new body  ::)
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on January 20, 2022, 08:56:36 PM
Achim,

I do enjoy the attention to the small details that you and many others on here put into your work  :praise2:  :praise2:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on January 20, 2022, 11:15:09 PM
Quote
For a one off as soon as you open the air intake past the optimum you have to make a new body  ::)
 

Well that goes without saying  ;D  - not that it will prevent me from making that mistake  :-X

Like the rest here - I really enjoy to see your last pictures Achim - amazingly result  :praise2:

Per
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Don1966 on January 21, 2022, 04:59:21 AM
Outstanding work Achim enjoyed your build  …… :Love:



 :drinking-41:
Don
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 21, 2022, 06:40:50 AM
Don, Per, Roger, ShopShoe, George, Craig, Jeff, Ron, Kim and Dave thanks for watching and all the friendly comments.
Very good to know that you are all following, I do appreciate it very much.
I am very happy to be a member of this friendly and global community.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 21, 2022, 07:35:24 AM
That was a very interesting little tidbit Roger - do you have any reference, or was it just told verbaly to you ?

Per

I found this by a number of routes. L C Mason refers to a carb with two butterflies, one before the jet and one after and the relationship between them. I have a couple of commercial carbs that I have modified for my engines and noted that the air intake bore was bigger that the bore in the barrel and the engine side bore. If you go to the extreme and make the inlet side bore bigger than the air intake side you will end up drawing neat fuel and no air. For a high volume production finding the optimal bore can be done by experiment. For a one off as soon as you open the air intake past the optimum you have to make a new body  ::)


Hi Roger,
a very interesting discussion.
May be also the reason, why I have  avoid it so far, to make a carb by myself.
There are so much different information available, all in relationship to very special applications.
The first idea was always to follow a recommendation and to use a carb of the shelf where somebody else has done the approval already.
Now I feel it is time to go deeper and try to understand the contex a bit better.
Good to know that there is some information in the book of L C Mason, I do have it and will try to find the part about the carbs in there.
Just seen, that Malcolm Stride also has a chapter about carbs in his book, also something to read very soon again.


In then meantime R&D was busy too yesterday.
Coolant was given into the system and surprise no leakage so far, also not later with 90°C.
And also this morning after resting a night it seems to be fine.
The main intention was get the cooling working to make a longer running stint possible.
I have started with the 3 mm carb same as has been used so far for running.
Same behavior, running with fully open throttle only no chance for and control of the revs.
By the way, next thing to do, to fix a small piece of reflector tape at one flywheel, so a measurement of the revs will be possible.
The adapter with the O.S. 2A carb was prepared some days ago has find its way to the intake manifold now.
The bore in the barrel is 4,5 mm. See pictures below.
By try and error the best coolant level has to be find, because if the engine stalled, some fluid comes back from the engine into the reservoir.
The water jacket in the heads is much higher than the coolant reservoir.
Generally it was checked if the coolant circle does work as it should be.
A lot of different effects are coming together now.
With every minute run time, the engine seems to go smoother
It is reacting to the barrel position now a bit.
Over all I could write something about 5 minutes run time into the records.
Here are nearly 50 sec of run time captured by another video with steaming coolant.
qEhwXJJ4of4Max temperature measured was 90° C, when the fuel cell was empty.
I took this as a sign to stop it for that day and make a plan for further experiments.
So it seems we are going into the right direction now.
The to do list shows now:
To start the engine with half open throttle and to find the right nozzle jet position for it, if possible.
To measure the revs in accordance to the throttle.
As Jeff suggested, to measure the intake and exhaust timing.
Generally to get more run time for better evaluation.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 22, 2022, 08:19:47 AM
Hi everybody,
yesterday was another successful day at the R&D department.
The engine is running now with approximately half open throttle.
It is going better and better.
It is reacting to any adjustment of the needle.
I am running it much leaner now than at the very first beginning.
The revs are down to less than 1000 rev/min and adjustable.
That means a stint will be longer until the coolant will get 95°C, max temp to switch it of.
Overall all run time now is 35 minutes.
G6WW3b6ISBY :pinkelephant:





Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: RReid on January 22, 2022, 08:33:53 PM
You now have that running every bit as well as it looks. Congratulations!  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :cheers:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Johnmcc69 on January 22, 2022, 11:43:31 PM
 :cartwheel:
 Fantastic job Achim!
 I'm glad you got it all sorted, she's a beauty of an engine & your additional touches really show the level of skill you've reached.

 congratulations! Looking forward to whats's next!

 John
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 27, 2022, 07:45:30 AM
Ron, John thanks.


Earlier at this posting I have mentioned to build a carb by myself.
This experiment has started also now.
It is the Lynx carb designed by Malcolm Stride, with a 4 mm Venturi instead of the original 7 mm Venturi.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on January 27, 2022, 08:10:45 PM
Hi Achim,

I had a look at my 'go to' carb. It works on the 3 cc single, the 12 cc twin and the 25 cc single. The barrel bore is 4.2mm, the air inlet side bore is 5.9mm and the engine side bore is 5mm. The jet protrudes about 0.5mm into the barrel and has a 0.5 mm hole and a fine tapered needle valve.

It shows a good response, although this is not what you may need with this engine  :)

OZQlKH0udXs
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 28, 2022, 07:17:37 AM
Hi Roger,
thanks for measuring and showing the values here.
Very similar to my 4,5 mm Venturi O.S. carb and to one I am making here.
Here the progress.
Housing is nearly finished, missing the main bore.
I would like to do this in one go with the barrel.
So next we do need, the side plates and the barrel.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: kvom on January 28, 2022, 12:30:41 PM
Time for a new project.   :ThumbsUp:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 29, 2022, 07:06:29 AM
Kirk, thanks for popping in.


In the meantime the barrel is made and assembled first time.
The main port drilled at the lathe.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on January 29, 2022, 07:22:19 AM
That's a neat little boring bar in Vergaser 20  :)

You may find you will need to increase the size of the bore on the air inlet side otherwise the mixture will get too rich as you close the throttle.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 29, 2022, 07:43:52 AM
That's a neat little boring bar in Vergaser 20  :)

You may find you will need to increase the size of the bore on the air inlet side otherwise the mixture will get too rich as you close the throttle.


Hi Roger, that is as a Horn Super Mini.
https://www.hornusa.com/horn-solutions/turning/
I have had the luck some time ago, to get a used set for very low price.


I`am curios about it, if the function of this carb is usable.


There are some other idea/wishes in my head in the meantime.
If it will really work, I could make it with a smaller body and barrel or this configuration, it will be more suitable for the BME than.
Also bolts could be changed from M 2 to M1,6 mm.
The needel vale will be the same.
This prototype may be will increased to a 5 mm main bore/venturi.
At the end I will have a collection of carbs with different bores for any kind of R&D work.
The small 3 mm Chinese RC carb, may be better sealed as proposed by Jeff.
The here mentioned 4 mm carb with the smaller housing, specially to be made for the BME.
My currently used 4,5 mm O.S. carb at the BME.
And the here in the pictures shown self made prototype, increased to a 5 mm bore.
May by a nice collection for future application work and yes, dreams of a retired person with some time to really do it. 
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 30, 2022, 08:13:59 AM
Going ahead with my first ever build carb.
One challenge for me, the 0,8 mm hole in the spray bar.
Normaly I do not make holes smaller than 1 mm, so no stock of drill bits.
There was a little red box under the bench, coming with my used Proxxon drill press many years ago.
Inside drill bits smaller than 1 mm and by luck there was one with 0,8 mm diameter, exactly what I was looking for here. But only one.
There have been two possibilities to chuck it. One time very long to start with and one time very short in this tiny Chinese chuck.
At the end the hole was done and the drill bit in one piece still.
The hex made at the mill in a collet block and chucked again at the lathe for machining the barrel side of the spray bar.
Next to do the  fuel needle.
To be safe with the curing process, I have left it at the table for one night untouched.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on January 31, 2022, 06:40:02 AM
I have left the carb for curing one night untouched at the table.
Going to bed with the quiet hope, that all the epoxy glue will stay where it should be and will not flow at places where it has not to be.
The barrel will need a lever also.
And last the little fuel tube was made and soft soldered into the spray bar.
Last picture an assembly at the engine with the air filter.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on January 31, 2022, 11:52:18 AM
Fits nicely - have you tried it ?
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 01, 2022, 07:01:28 AM
Fits nicely - have you tried it ?


Hi Per, yes.
There is a positive report from the R&D department.
The test session has been started with the 4.5 mm O.S. carb first.
Firing with the first crank rotations.
So immediately I have swapped the O.S. carb against my DIY one.
And pure surprise, also her pop´s with the very first movement of the crank.
So far it is the best configuration for this engine, there is a good reaction to the throttle and to the needle adjustment.
Full throttle means nearly 2.000 U/min, revs around 1.000 U/min and less are also possible.
jGl26vcI7cgAll this has encourage me now to make the smaller brother of it, as mentioned earlier.
The hosing will be smaller and I will try change the thread at the needle vom M3 (standard M3x0.5) to the finer version M3x0.35.
The set of tap and die is ordered.
Hopefully this modification will increase the sensitivity of the fuel mixture again.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 02, 2022, 09:21:52 AM
Achim,
You need to verify valve opening and closing degrees to determine the correct valve duration. When things don't work as expected, it is a logical place to start looking for the problem. Nominal durations: I - 200, E - 220 with no overlap at TDC.
Jeff


Hi Jeff,
it toke some time but now I have been able to check my timing against your figures.
Thanks to Mike/Vixen for showing the way to show it easily with one picture in his post about the Bristol Hercules engine (https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,10708.msg246756.html#msg246756).
I have tried to do it here in a similar way.
First picture below does show the combined Information about Dougs recommendation to set up the timing from the HSM plans.
exhaust should start to open at 40° BBDC
intake should start to open at 10° ATDC
and the duration is from your above post.
The second picture is showing what I have just measured.
The duration of the exhaust is much longer than the above mentioned 220°, it is around 270°.
Intake is close to your mentioned  200°.
So first thing I have done to understand the difference, was a check of Doug´s exhaust cam drawing.
Below a screenshot of my sketch of this in Fusion.
In my understanding it it impossible to get a shorter duration of opening, because of this shape.
By earlier starting of exhaust opening it should be possible to decrease the overlap at TDC, but no idea if it does make any sense.
In my understanding new cams has to be made to archive the duration of 220° exhaust opening.
Is it really necessary ?
And why are there other values at the original plans ?   
May be someone of the more experienced IC engine builder will teach me, please.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on February 02, 2022, 11:16:01 AM
Your new carbs Looks very successful  :)  :)  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:

Depending on the shape of the cam the opening and closing points of the valve can be significantly affected by the valve clearance. Can you easily increase the clearance of a pair of valves and measure the timing again?
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 02, 2022, 12:46:27 PM
Your new carbs Looks very successful  :) :) :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:

Depending on the shape of the cam the opening and closing points of the valve can be significantly affected by the valve clearance. Can you easily increase the clearance of a pair of valves and measure the timing again?


Hi Roger,
yes I am very happy about the result.
Not expected in this way.
Hopefully the good performance can be transferred to the little brother carb.
The housing with both covers, the barrel and the lever are already finished.
Just waiting for the new tap and die set M3x0.35 for the new spray bar and needle.
That should arrive tomorrow, if I believe in the tracking data from DHL.


Concerning the valve clearance, first adjustment was between 0,15 and 0,2 mm, we are currently more close to 0,1 mm due to the setting of the valves.
I have something about 70 Minutes of run time in the records. I have scheduled a check and readjustment after 100 Minutes of run time.
The test with more clearance I have done already unintended some time ago during the first regular set ups.
The deviation was not so dramatic.


May be Jeff will read my post later and perhaps he will have more information about this timing story.
His engine is running with propane only and Doug is using fuel only.
So may be there is already a reason for a different timing.
Currently my engine is running not so bad with the timing it has right now.
We will see what a finer needle adjustment will generate.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Rustkolector on February 02, 2022, 06:19:57 PM
Achim,
I built my B-M a long time ago. As it sits I have no idea of my B-M valve timing but it was built to the plans. It runs well under very slight 6-12 watt electrical load but does misfire at no load when engine is warmed up. I very recently had running problems with another of my engines which I believe I have resolved. It now runs smoothly with or without load at 550-600 RPM. Keep in mind this engine varies in two ways with your engine. Mine runs on propane and it has a 5:1 compression ratio unlike the B-M 4:1 C/R. I made two changes. First I increased the spark gap to .023”. The spark is now stronger looking and sounding.  And second, I changed valve timing to  I -200⁰ and E - 220⁰ crankshaft duration as I suggested to you. Unfortunately I did not make these changes independently. That’s a bad habit of mine.

Engine experts say that the closing of the intake valve is the most critical valve event in the 4 cycle engine. The B-M engine design is for slow speed operation (~450-600 RPM) and in my opinion I do not believe any valve overlap will increase volumetric efficiency in slow speed model gas engine operation. In high speed model engines it may be different. I just don’t subscribe to the belief that in a tiny slow speed model gas engine that intake air has any inertia effect adding to cylinder fill on the intake stroke. Inadequate cylinder fill on a slow speed engine is often evidenced by 8 cycling which is a very rhythmic exhaust sound of the engine firing every 2 or 3 power strokes. Try using a light hand applied load to your running engine flywheel (and...don’t scratch the paint!). If you can smooth out the engine running with a little load and a carb adjustment the problem is very likely inadequate cylinder fill and the intake cam timing should be extended. I do believe on a tiny model gas engine that additional cylinder fill can be obtained with a non overlapping and longer duration intake stroke as I suspect there is still negative intake pressure at BDC due to (no-load) throttle restriction. Intake valve closing at 20⁰-30⁰ degrees ABDC should help. Exhaust should close at, or just after TDC. Note: when I mention valve timing I use seat to seat timing measured at the valve spring retainer. No valve lash is included.

Jeff
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 03, 2022, 07:18:26 AM
Hi Jeff,
thank you very much for your answer an all the useful explanation.
Your input and also the engine timing collection of Mike/Vixen in his Bristol Hercules post has given me a lot of clearance and better understanding of model engine timing.
It is very much appreciated.
At the end it could be useful to build a very simple one cylinder engine, with easy to change cam lobes and already know behavior by a specific bore/stroke and carb.
May be this will be a future project for the R&D department, it could be really fun to do some own experiments there.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 06, 2022, 10:52:45 AM
There is a decision done how to proceed.
The measured and above shown timing of my Bruce Macbeth engine is definitive not suitable for a low reving model engine with no load.
By all what I have seen, is the opening duration of the exhaust cam much to long.
Compared with the information to Mikes collection of model engine timing and also the values at petertha collection showing something different.
I will do some experiments with other adjustment, but at the end I will need new exhaust cam lobes.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 07, 2022, 03:23:26 PM
Hi everybody, the R&D department does report some success.
I have tried to get ride of the massive overlapping by adjustment only.
The timing as recommended by the plan and set up instructions at the first picture below.
There visible the long overlap, a bit more than 40° crank shaft, 20° cam shaft.
Now, after the new adjustment, the exhaust cam does start opening at 60° crank shaft before BDC already, 20° earlier.
The overall situation shown in the second diagram below.
I have measured the duration at all 4 cams several times to be sure, but the result was always the same, 260° crank shaft.


With this new configuration it seems to be another engine.
Running much smoother, carb nearly closed and I have measured less than 800 revs.
The engine does react nicely to the throttle if it will be moved slowly.
 :pinkelephant:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Craig DeShong on February 07, 2022, 03:31:43 PM
Great news Achim;  Looks like not only I have been watching Mike's valve event drawings.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 07, 2022, 04:08:05 PM
Great news Achim;  Looks like not only I have been watching Mike's valve event drawings.


Hi Craig, thanks.
I do like Mike´s way to show timing very much.


Here is a small video of the engine running slow.
9R27zK0Yjgc
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: kuhncw on February 07, 2022, 04:40:50 PM
Achim,

Congratulations on a nice running Bruce Macbeth.  It sounds very nice

Chuck
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Kim on February 07, 2022, 06:04:27 PM
Just beautiful, Achim!  your persistence has paid off!  :cartwheel:

Kim
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Admiral_dk on February 07, 2022, 10:16:58 PM
Really worth the effort you put into the adjustments  :praise2:

I like the sound too  :cheers:

Per
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: derekwarner on February 08, 2022, 12:42:58 AM
I think we all understand where work is done, the energy consumed will result in heat  :Mad:, so it is most realistic to see steam exiting the water Cooling Tower [and tank] in a model combustion engine plant.....

We also saw this in the January the 22nd clip, I just didn't mention it  :Doh:

Do you mean that 95 degrees is the intended max operating temperature of the engine, or that is the limit of the cooling water system?

[it appears that the probe of the thermometer is at the lower level in the water tank?]

:facepalm: .... just beautiful Achim

Derek
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 08, 2022, 08:09:59 AM
Chuck, Kim, Per
thanks for watching and the friendly words.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 08, 2022, 08:17:29 AM
I think we all understand where work is done, the energy consumed will result in heat  :Mad: , so it is most realistic to see steam exiting the water Cooling Tower [and tank] in a model combustion engine plant.....

We also saw this in the January the 22nd clip, I just didn't mention it  :Doh:

Do you mean that 95 degrees is the intended max operating temperature of the engine, or that is the limit of the cooling water system?

[it appears that the probe of the thermometer is at the lower level in the water tank?]

 :facepalm: .... just beautiful Achim

Derek


Derek, thanks.
I have no real idea, what could be the max running temperature for a long run.
95°C in the water tank, measured direct in/at the water out to the pump, means around 100°C to 110° C measured at each cylinder head with the Laser/IR thermometer.
In my feeling that should be max.
A bit hotter and the coolant coming out of the radiator is cooking with bubbles.
That was the basic for setting my limit.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: steamer on February 08, 2022, 11:46:56 AM
That runs wonderfully!   I can only hope mine will run as well!!!

Congrats Achim!   She's a Runnah!!!!


Dave
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 08, 2022, 12:31:59 PM
That runs wonderfully!   I can only hope mine will run as well!!!

Congrats Achim!   She's a Runnah!!!!


Dave


Hi Dave, thanks.
You put so much effort in your design, so I am sure she will be a Runnah, too.
If you will take in account, what we have learned and discussed here about "Model Engine Timing", than you will get it managed too,surely.
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Roger B on February 08, 2022, 03:45:10 PM
Excellent  :praise2: :praise2: Sounds great  :ThumbsUp: :wine1:
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: gbritnell on February 09, 2022, 12:27:30 PM
Outstanding results!  There's so much satisfaction when you solve all the problems.
gbritnell
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: fumopuc on February 09, 2022, 02:12:58 PM
George, Roger, thank you very much for always following along.


Today was a perfect day in the R&D department.
Overall run time in the records now 193 Minutes.
Jeff (rustcollector) has given another recommendation to decrease the exhaust duration by adjustment.
Roger has mentioned earlier already, that valve lash can get an influence to the duration too.
Exactly this was done now.
I have increased valve lash of the exhaust to 0,2 to 0,25 mm.
This does results in decreased duration from 260° to 245° crank shaft, exactly what should be archived.
The opening of the exhaust does start now with 50° before BDC and there is a very small remaining overlap.
See picture #1 below.
That is my final timing now.
The engine is running in my understanding very nice with this timing.
Lowest measured rev/min less than 500.
Some time ago Jeff (rustcollector) has mentioned also, that the Chinese 3 mm carb with a slightly modification by an 0-ring internaly, should feed this engine very well also.
So far my 4 mm DIY carb was best running nearly closed so that was another reason to try this 3 mm carb again.
In this video the final above mentioned timing and the 3 mm carb.
9gVyiOx_FCkFor me the result is absolutely perfect.
My CNC mill has made some new modified exhaust cams yesterday, but they are  collected by a ty-rap now and will find its place, together with the other remaining parts of this build, under the bench.
So finally thank you very much for all here giving the useful support during my journey and of course for watching this build quietly.
A very special thanks to Jeff (rustcollector), he has been always right with his suggestions
A Plexiglas cover is ordered and some space, very close to the Snow engine is prepared for the storage.

Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: crueby on February 09, 2022, 02:43:54 PM
Phenominal work!!  Looks and sounds terrific!
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: wagnmkr on February 09, 2022, 02:54:41 PM
Great perseverance. That does run and sound great! Congrats!
Title: Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
Post by: Dan Williams on February 09, 2022, 02:55:35 PM
Outstanding Achim! Thanks for reporting on the R&D efforts. I will keep these in mind as I start working on some sort of vintage looking electrical generator plant as a good, useful load for my engine.

Dan