Model Engine Maker

Engines => Restoration of Model Engines => Topic started by: Jo on September 22, 2021, 06:28:46 PM

Title: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on September 22, 2021, 06:28:46 PM
Another one   :facepalm:   I don't know how he does it but today I was allowed to take a part set of orphaned Stuart Twin Victoria castings out of the house, with the instruction to exchange them for these  :noidea: :

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/P9220414.JPG)

As you can see a fair bit of machining has been done and then someone must have mentioned about the need to "age" castings :facepalm: Before my friend is allowed near them they will need that special coating removed  ::)

The James Booth 1843 Rectilinear engine is another of Anthony Mount's designs. This is Anthony's own engine:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/Anthony_s_rectilinear_engine.jpg)

And of course no drawings  :disappointed: but they were in EIM three decades back...

Jo
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jasonb on September 22, 2021, 07:39:45 PM
I hope those GM castings are better than the ones I had which were full of oxides and the reason mine still sits part made though a bit further along than yours. I think this was one of Anthony's first offerings and at the time he supplied the castings direct.

One of his books has the drawings too.
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on September 22, 2021, 08:13:47 PM
If the cylinder is gritty it can have a bronze liner added  ;)

Jo
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: crueby on September 22, 2021, 08:19:53 PM
That is a great looking design, watching along!
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Admiral_dk on September 22, 2021, 09:14:49 PM
Quote
The James Booth 1843 Rectilinear engine is another of Anthony Mount's designs. This is Anthony's own engine:

Is it just my imagination or might I actually have seen a full sized version in a museum somewhere on the British Isles ...?...  :noidea:
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on September 23, 2021, 11:44:10 AM
I can't say I have ever seen a full sized engine Per.



I started the morning by setting up the electrolysis tank:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4454.JPG)

Then started the dismantling using a few tools to help with the loose rust removal:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4455.JPG)

I think the bearing are on their last legs on my angle grinder  :Doh:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4457.JPG)

These tools were supplemented with a bit of draw filing along the edges. Clearly who ever applied the special coating needs more practise as it is coming off without any need to apply elbow grease  ::)


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4459.JPG)

The tank has had each "cleaned bit added and you can see it has already started working  :ThumbsUp:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4458.JPG)


Now to test this cylinder casting  :thinking:

Jo
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jasonb on September 23, 2021, 01:02:58 PM
Did you not get your sand blast cabinet out? would give a nice key for the paint.

Per, I think there may be a full size that uses the same principal but with just one set of guides, more like Anthony's later "cross engine" that could have also been by booth as they had the patent.
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on September 23, 2021, 03:23:16 PM
It is much quicker to clean it up this way than get the blaster out.


Knowing that Jason is holding his breath hoping that my cylinder is full of gritty bits like his I thought it was only fair that I machined the cylinder so he could gloat sympathise with me if mine was the same..

Anthony suggests you mount the cylinder on a face plate  :thinking: The problem there is that it has two non square ends and a bump in the middle of the valve port face. It is therefore much easier to carefully set up in a three jaw.

The gunmetal has been slightly protected by using a piece of old coke tin between the three jaws and the gun metal. I did look at holding the cylinder beyond the rim but having looked at the final target wall thickness decided against that. First square up the bottom - the side away from the crankshaft:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4460.JPG)

You can see that it is still rough and it is also over length - this end will need to be faced again. This cut is just so the casting will sit flat against the chuck:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4461.JPG)

Now I have turned it round, used a copper mallet to ensure it is firmly against the chuck and then turned the outside of the rim round (but still oversized). I then cleaned up the outer face so that the face was not too rough and supported the end of the cylinder in the fixed steady on that over diameter surface I just turned circular so now with support in place I can start boring:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4465.JPG)

Yes there is some grittiness in the bronze but I am now 0.5mm away from the diameter on the drawing - the actual measurement is not critical it can be plus or minus 1mm but watch the remaining cylinder wall thickness if you go lots over dimension ;))

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4466.JPG)

Now that my Takeaway Delivered Curry has arrived for tonight's dinner I might think about doing a final bore  :thinking: Then we can discuss the cons of having pot holes in the bore of a steam cylinder and the techniques that can be used to overcome them  ;)

Jo
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on September 23, 2021, 04:19:50 PM
I have just taken another cut and the bore is still 0.3mm undersized:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4467.JPG)

As you can see there are a number of holes in the casting. This is only on one side so it has probably been caused by gassing.


Does it matter? On a steam engine, that fine, with no sharp edges, probably not. During normal running they would gunge up and seal on their own.

Bigger holes or huge lumps out of the bore would: Its a bit like driving down the road big pot holes can do damage, small holes your tyres would run over them without noticing. If the holes were big or the bore had a sharp/gritty texture I would probably line the bore with a sleeve.

But I will fill these to show how you could do it for yourself. The options: Soft solder or as I am going to use JB Weld  ::) Soft solder is much better but that would require taking the cylinder down, heating it up applying the solder and then remounting it perfectly in the chuck. The cheats way to do it is to smear JB weld over the offending marks and let it slump into the holes:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4471.jpg)

I am now going to leave the JB weld for 2 days to go really hard and then do a final skim taking another 0.1mm off the bore. I do not care about the wear properties of JB Weld as it is just filling the holes like gunge would normally and I know that JB Weld is good for the sort of temperatures that this engine may be subjected to if it was run on steam. It should stick like the proverbial, if it comes out it won't do any harm before it is blown out of the exhaust  ;) .

Jo
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Admiral_dk on September 23, 2021, 04:48:40 PM
Nice that the parts cleaned up so easily from the 'coating'  :)
I'm sure that you are happy the the 'blow holes' are so small.

Will certainly follow your progress Jo  :cheers:

Jason - that could the reason I thought it looked familiar.
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Roger B on September 23, 2021, 05:02:20 PM
Looks to be another fun project with an interesting looking engine  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jasonb on September 23, 2021, 05:05:53 PM
I think the main problem with mine when I did it 30 odd years ago was that I only had HSS boring bars and as soon as they hit the gritty oxide it took the edge off them so the cutter stopped cutting. This meant that I could not get a consistent diameter bore rather than just having a few hols to contend with. Likely now a carbide tip may survive a full length cut.

You can see the different bands going around the cylinder where the tool cut for a while and then lost it's edge, looks like I had blued it at some time to see the low areas and I can feel the changes in dia with my finger. I think it's already overbore where I was trying to get a decent finish so sleeving would be the best option or simply make a cylinder from scratch
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on September 23, 2021, 05:30:04 PM
Looks to be another fun project with an interesting looking engine  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:

I am hoping to be allowed to finish the Bee before doing any more than the cylinder on this one. I hate having castings/models around with the special coating as someone goes a horrible shade of reddy/brown  and I then find it everywhere :facepalm2:

Jo
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on September 25, 2021, 04:31:53 PM
I've bored the cylinder for the last time:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4472.JPG)

The swarf coming out is grey JB Weld rather than shiny gunmetal. Having measured up the two ends of the cylinder I found that another 1mm needed to come off this end before I added the 2.5mm deep recess for the cover/steam gap:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4474.JPG)

the cylinder was then turned round mounted up once again in the three jaw with the fixed steady providing support and 0.9mm taken off the other end and a similar counter bore for the steam cut. the cylinder still needs more machining but I am going to leave it there for now. You can still see the JB Weld in the holes (it actually makes them stand out more  :-[ )

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4475.JPG)

But if you rub your finger on those grey bits you will not notice they are there and that should be the same for the piston and its packing  :)


The now cleaned up, previously rusty, bits are now rust free and they have been sprayed with etch primer to give them a little protection. Once the paint is dry my intention is to hand this casting set over to Surus for his collection :pinkelephant: and hope that one day in the not too distant future I will be allowed to see it again, in the meantime I am back to working on the Bee

Jo
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on November 05, 2021, 03:01:14 PM
 :headscratch: I thought I had been allowed the Clarkson engine castings but this is what I found when I opened the box in the workshop:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4609.JPG)

The Rectilinear castings... finishing this engine should be fairly quick and it will give me something to fiddle with when I get bored of flicking over the Bee  . Ok so I Normally start at with the base plate:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4610.JPG)

As you can see someone has already done this for me  :) Except the cylinder mounting holes are missing. The instructions say drill through from the cylinder cover  :facepalm2: Ok back in days gone by you might but I am going to use the DRO's circle bolt function. There are four sets of holes that match the cover: either end of the cylinder, the base plate and a rather nice casting that is supplied for the top cover. So that I can do all the holes at the same setting I will start on that cover.

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4611.JPG)

As you can see it has a steep draft angles (the sides of the circular bits taper horribly) so first up mount it on the large bottom surface and turn something to hold this casting by:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4612.JPG)

Its running remarkably true  :ThumbsUp: so having rough turned the spigot in the middle and the larger diameter face to get rid of the casting marks time to first turn the centre to the first finished diameter - 16mm this will be the boss for the gland and our chucking piece:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4613.JPG)

It does not matter what this diameter is but I will be holding it in a collet so I am going for 16mm. I can then face the larger diameter - this is the top face of the cover so a good finish is required. You can see I am facing it in reverse to prevent any bits of swarf getting under the tool and marking  :facepalm2: the surface:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4614.JPG)

Turn it round use the 16mm diameter in a collet to hold the cover and cut the boss which goes into the cylinder and check it fits:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4615.JPG)

While it is mounted take the outside diameter to match the cylinder and sneak behind and to the top of the cover to avoid having to turn it round.

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4616.JPG)

Finally drill through 4.5mm ( reamer starting size)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4617.JPG)

Can you see those horrible blow holes in the underside of the casting  :-\ No one will see them so time to put it to one side while admiring another casting:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4620.JPG)

It seems a waste to use that lovely piece of gunmetal when that scrappy piece of Aluminium will do just as well  :-X

Jo



Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jasonb on November 05, 2021, 03:35:42 PM
I was going to say did you see that nice one on the front of a recent ME (except the large acorn nuts) but then I got to the bit you wrote about no cladding :-X
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on November 05, 2021, 04:09:58 PM
No, I rarely see Model Engineer anymore not only me but most of the people I know stopped taking it because all it had in it was Locomotives, more Locomotives and repeats of articles from years ago (complete with their original errors  :facepalm2: )

The posh moulding round the outside of the cylinder casting implies it did not have cladding but I noticed Anthony did it on his as well.

Jo
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on November 06, 2021, 04:59:25 PM
The piston was turned to just over width and the centre drilled and tapped for the piston rod.

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4621.JPG)

It was then fitted on the end of the piston rod to have it taken to diameter, cut the slot for the packing and face the two sides of the piston so it ran true (I know fussy, fussy  ::) )

The piston fit passes the drop test:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4622.JPG)

It glides slowly to the bottom of the cylinder:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4623.JPG)

Time to look at the valve face: I've fly cut the face..

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4625.JPG)

Now I am checking the dimensions... the width is a bit tight (undersized by 0.1mm before skimming square)  I also noted that the inlet port dimensions are not on the drawing  :facepalm: They are half the width of the exhaust port, which is the same dimension as the lands between the ports and we can also check with the pocket dimension on the valve  :ThumbsUp:

So 4.76mm by 12.7mm exhaust, 2.35mm land, 2.35mm by 12.7mm inlet ports. I note the dimensions of the studs for the steam chest are not on the drawing. More opportunities to drill through from a cover - the way things were   ::)

Jo

Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jasonb on November 06, 2021, 06:38:53 PM
My drawing has them and as you have surmised they are 3/32" wide :ThumbsUp: or rounded to 2.3mm as does yours before anyone starts blaming the drawing suppliers for not having been revised
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on November 07, 2021, 03:39:44 PM
As the width of the valve port face is a bit thin I chose the centre the X axis of the mill on that, the Y axis used the top and the bottom of the cylinder casting.

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4627.JPG)

Mill round the face to square things up and take note of the reduced width  ::)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4628.JPG)

Drill two holes either end of the slot and join between with first a slightly smaller slot drill then take to size using a four flute cutter:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4630.JPG)

Repeat for the two smaller slots.. First drill the two ends to the correct diameter:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4632.JPG)

As these ports are only 2.3mm wide I used the correct sized cutter to slowly mill the slot down to depth. The depth is 6.35mm. It is not on the drawing but it is a fairly standard depth used for ports as the flutes on the little FC3 cutters are just over that length (small cylinders may required less and have even smaller ports  :paranoia:)

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4633.JPG)

Not forgetting to drill the 12 holes for the 8BA studs:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4634.JPG)

So cylinder complete with ports:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4635.JPG)

Did you spot where I had a senior moment  :old:   :facepalm2:  If you didn't I am sure someone will be along in a moment to point it out  :-X

Jo




Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jasonb on November 07, 2021, 04:44:22 PM
I'll keep  :-X but it does look like it got very hot in your workshop judging by the how quickly the cylinder casting has tarnished  ;) :thinking:
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on November 07, 2021, 05:04:21 PM
Which reminds me I was given some new tee shirts and this was amongst them.

The supplier said as you had one you might like it  :naughty:

Jo
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jasonb on November 07, 2021, 05:12:57 PM
Was it another old man with a Scooby that supplied it. Now if it were rally blue with gold lettering I might be interested  ::)

Though if that is a 2'6" doorway it may be a bit large for me :LittleDevil:
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on November 07, 2021, 05:41:05 PM
Another Workshop rag then  :ThumbsUp:

Jo
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Bluechip on November 07, 2021, 05:57:59 PM
Another Workshop rag then  :ThumbsUp:

Jo

Yup. That just about sums me up ....  :old:   :shrug:

Incidentally, when did Subaru last actually do any rally car stuff?  Not that I fiollow such antics.

Dave
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jasonb on November 07, 2021, 06:18:11 PM
I think it was about 2008/2009 that they withdrew from WRC. Still popular with privateers and the newer shaped ones get rallied quite a bit in the US in the more production based classes as current WRC is nothing like production cars and next years hybrid ones even more so. I think they are still the fastest car around the IoM TT course.

Enough Rally talk have you got your sombrero on for tonight's F1 Jo?
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on November 07, 2021, 07:42:42 PM
Enough Rally talk have you got your sombrero on for tonight's F1 Jo?

No I will be happily tucked up asleep. In the morning I will listen to the Shipping forecast and probably be told the result as part of the News Briefing when my alarm goes off in the morning, again   :wallbang: I was not impressed this morning when I found All 4 was not offering qualifying on demand :rant:

Jo
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on November 08, 2021, 04:38:03 PM
Someone has very generously already centre punched the centre of the cylinder on the base plate so I can use this:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4638.JPG)

As the zero point for the circle of 24 holes on which to mount the cylinder:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4639.JPG)

I have drilled these 2.4mm which is just oversized for the 24  :headscratch: 8BA mounting "thingies".

I am not sure what this hole on the base plate is for:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4640.JPG)

And yes this plate is oversized  :ThumbsUp:

Jo
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jasonb on November 08, 2021, 04:45:10 PM
It is there if you want to plumb the drain cocks to waste under the base. see the photo you posted in post #1

I think you could get away with just putting alternate holes in the bottom of the cylinder to save a bit of tapping as 24 is overkill particularly as they are not seen, just do the full lot around the top and watch the ones near the steam passages.
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on November 08, 2021, 08:08:39 PM
Ta, I am not sure if I would plumb in any draincocks. The last thing you want on a drain cock is a restrictive small diameter pipe that doesn't let the condensate out fast. At least it is a slide valve so any excess would just go out into the Steam chest.

I did consider putting locating pins in alternate ones of the lower set of holes   :noidea:

Jo
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on November 09, 2021, 03:59:33 PM
I've been drilling lots of holes in the bottom of the cylinder (not forgetting milling a bit for the port) :

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4641.JPG)

And then tapping them:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4642.JPG)

Then drilling more in the top:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4646.JPG)

Then clamping the top cover on and drilling the clearance through that:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4647.JPG)

The gland has had the same done for it and I have also drilled for the cylinder lubricator.

If you recall I had only drilled the centre of the cover 4.5mm, time to ream it 4.76mm:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4649.JPG)

Trying it on the bottom plate. The holes line up  :ThumbsUp: .

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4650.JPG)

But having slid on the cross head guides:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4651.JPG)

The lubricator hits the guide bottom plate :thinking:

Jo


Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Admiral_dk on November 09, 2021, 10:21:49 PM
Very nice work Jo  :ThumbsUp:

Quote
The lubricator hits the guide bottom plate :thinking:

I would have been very surprised if something like this didn't happen from time to time on full size engines too .... one solution for a one off and another for production engines (several made).

Hard to tell - but will it clear if you 'Turn the Top' (placement of the lubricator) 90 degrees ?
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jasonb on November 10, 2021, 07:02:25 AM
It looks like the lubricator is not screwed all the way into the cylinder cover and also the spindle looks to be either in the fully open position or too long if it is in the closed position, both of which should lower it. Last resort take a 1/16" off the lever.
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on November 10, 2021, 07:23:56 AM
The Brass bit of the Lubricator will not go any further down as it is hitting the bottom cap.

This is where Anthony put his lubricator but I have noted that others have turned the cylinder cover 90 degrees so the handle does not catch the sliding guide blocks.

Jo
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jasonb on November 10, 2021, 12:46:05 PM

This is where Anthony put his lubricator

Are you sure, looking at the photos in EiM he has it above the drain cock position. At least with the holes drilled on the DRO it won't be a problem rotating the cylinder cover 90deg.

EDIT you might also want to check the size of the bottom cap, the crosshead guides should be flush with its edge (see GA), yours sticks out suggesting they are larger.
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on November 10, 2021, 03:35:43 PM
I will be checking the dimensions of the existing bits and modifying them if required as I go  .

Jo
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jasonb on November 10, 2021, 04:13:23 PM
As I said the one in the magazine has it above the drain cocks, see attached.

There is also the fact that there should be three tapped holes in the cover, one for the lubricator and two for the two dummy access covers so both the early drawing with no holes and the modified one with two holes are wrong.

Not sure if you are building to the published metric sizes or just converting the imperial but the metric bottom cap is too small and the imperial too large when compared to the GA 1 1/8" square would do nicely.

Also check the guide block flanges which should be 1/32" not the 1/16" shown on the drawings and in the book.
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Roger B on November 10, 2021, 08:04:22 PM
A lot of holes and quite a few challenges  :)  :)  :praise2:  :praise2:  :wine1:
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on January 03, 2022, 04:20:27 PM
Thank you Roger,

I decided to leave Schoey today and do a bit more on this engine. I looked at the exquisite Steam chest Casting:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4762.JPG)

Not pretty  :ShakeHead: But I skimmed the top and bottom making sure there was plenty of the gland support in the right place and milled a piece of brass down to the correct thickness to act at the cover:


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4763.JPG)

Soft soldered the cover on the chest (so I didn't have to repeat the machining on the cover later this way they are both done as one ;) )Then started milling the sides square:


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4764.JPG)

Only to get side tracked as I was letting the power feed skim the chest/cover looking at these:


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4766.JPG)

Yes the two outer crankshaft supports are wider than the bearing keeps, so time to:


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4767.JPG)

Make use of that face cutter while it is on Tgs and to mill them to the same width. Then examine the tops  :facepalm2:


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4768.JPG)

Yes the mounting holes are out of line. And you may have been wondering like me why the holes for the columns are so big; its a "Drawing feature" (otherwise known as an error  :-X ). If you read the text it says the holes should be 7/32" (5.5mm) but it was put on the drawing as 7mm.  :ShakeHead: This means I have no problem as I would want to correct the hole size so I can also move its location using a slot drill:


(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4770.JPG)

The holes in both are now 9mm diameter:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4771.JPG)

and will be sleeved with a sleeve that will also provide a nice land for the nuts to tighten against  :)

In the background you can see the next challenge  :paranoia: It is not parallel, the hole for the crankshaft is 12.7mm in one side and 13.3 to13.5 ish  on the other side :headscratch: Lots of opportunities to keep me amused  ;)

Jo
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jasonb on January 03, 2022, 04:37:19 PM
Good to see you back on this

I drilled all my holes to 7mm as Anthony says they are that size in the main frame to allow for adjustment so if you move the main frame you will also need to be able to move the outer bearings if you are going to keep the crankshaft in line. So to me the text is wrong not the drawing.

Depending on how accurately the existing base plate was drilled you could probably get away with 6mm in all of them as that is still a good amount of movement on the 2BA fixings, He may have suggested more as it was before DROs were common, even mills as I did not have one at the time.
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on January 04, 2022, 11:07:21 AM
Thanks JB  :D

The Main frame casting is all over the place  :facepalm2: The only thing that seems to be in about the right place are the four holes, so these are what I am going to use to hold this casting. Time for a jig:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4773.JPG)

I have made four spaces with 6mm holes through them and 7mm dowels to locate into the existing holes:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4772.JPG)

And I can confirm the holes in the casting are spot on  :)

We are ready to sort this casting out  :pinkelephant:

Jo
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on January 04, 2022, 01:19:05 PM
First job run round the outside to get things square and take the one side that was still too thick down to 8mm:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4774.JPG)

Now to have a look at the alignment of the crankshaft bearing keeps. With the milling cutter in the centre line first look at one side and then the other and you can see they are not aligned :facepalm2:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4775.JPG)

Time to open it up so the slot is balanced around the centre line and accept that I need a new wider keep :

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4777.JPG)

Having milled some off the side a quick check:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4778.JPG)

Yes the stud holes are not in the centre so fill those with some of "all thread" (finally found a use for it  :ThumbsUp: )

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4779.JPG)


What I couldn't understand was why who ever made this had not previously cut the slots for the guides. Quick check: yes the holes were all over the place so first use a thin milling cutter and the power feed to put the (slightly larger  ::))  holes back where they should be:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4780.JPG)

Then mill each hole to 4.76mm deep before milling the slots:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4781.JPG)

Turn over and repeat for the guide slots:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4782.JPG)

I'm stuffed now  :Doh: I can't drill and tap for the keep holes until the loctite has gone off so best make those sleeves to go in all of these while we wait  :thinking:

Jo
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jasonb on January 04, 2022, 01:30:17 PM
You will have to stop posting about this engine, I keep getting tempted to dig my one out again. Though a bit worried about what horrors I may find as I did it a long time ago with a lot less equipment and ability  :-[ I seem to remember Anthony saying that you can't easily turn the engine over by simply rotating the flywheel as there is a risk of twisting all the cranks out of line, that is probably where I got to with a solid shaft that turned but too many errors in the frames and cranks etc to get it to turn over. :'(

Just seeing you flip it over were the thicknesses at the 4 corners all the same, trying to figure out what your marker pen notations mean. I have seen then done by spacing the two guide frames apart with a separate spacer so whatever vertical thickness you end up with between the milled pockets does not matter.
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on January 04, 2022, 02:11:10 PM
Just seeing you flip it over were the thicknesses at the 4 corners all the same, trying to figure out what your marker pen notations mean. I have seen then done by spacing the two guide frames apart with a separate spacer so whatever vertical thickness you end up with between the milled pockets does not matter.

The thicknesses are out by 0.2mm but I'm ignoring that, an extra coat of paint is about the same.

The marker pen notation is all the measurements where I was trying to find out what the original builder used as a reference. I decided what ever it was it did not include the use of a square which is why the two sides of the frame have been milled out of line and someone had to try to move things over. I'm doing something more drastic to correct things.

I will be taking your advice and when I make the buttons to go in these pieces I will give them a generous allowance and will bore them 5mm so there is some wiggle room  ;)

Jo

Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on January 04, 2022, 03:26:16 PM
That is it for today, the eight inserts have been made:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4783.JPG)

And there are the two keeps that need replacing   :)

Jo
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Admiral_dk on January 04, 2022, 03:42:45 PM
It looks like you on a roll, with this one now, Jo  :ThumbsUp:
Nice to see that you feel up to be in the shop again   :cheers:

Per
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: steam guy willy on January 05, 2022, 03:42:39 AM
Hi Jo, looking good  :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Willy
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: bent on January 05, 2022, 08:12:19 PM
Hmm.  Original "machinist" went blindly off the drawings without figuring out where the significant features needed to be?
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on January 08, 2022, 11:52:47 AM
Thanks Guys  :cheers:

I suspect the original builder tried doing this as his first engine and learnt a lot  ::)

I have been faffing about trying to find a suitable boring bar. I couldn't use my 12mm long reach one because the wider bit towards the end caught the top hole when I tried to cut the lower hole  :wallbang: So I did it using a 10mm diameter boring bar  :paranoia:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4787.JPG)

Not ideal as I had to go slowly using small cuts to avoid the tool flexing too much. Thankfully Tgs has power feeds  :)

All done. The hole is now 15.8mm diameter. Which means I can ream it out if required to a standard size but it is looking ok:

 (http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4788.JPG)

Because the central bearing keep slot wider is I am thinking of leaving the larger diameter of the bearings a little bigger  :thinking:

Jo
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: propforward on January 08, 2022, 02:01:03 PM
This is a great engine. Coming along very nicely. It's a really fascinating design, will be great to see it continue to progress.
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on January 08, 2022, 02:43:19 PM
Thank you Stuart  :)

I've just machined up the set of main bearings:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4789.JPG)

The bearings line up nicely on the columns but the column lengths need a bit of an adjustment  ::)


The tops of the columns need some Acorn nuts  :thinking:

Jo
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on January 08, 2022, 04:01:43 PM
The acorn nuts must be all the same which means I need a form tool. I am using a router bit:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4791.JPG)

Once the tool is set up it is important to do all of them before moving the tool so I cut tops on both ends of five rods then parted them off:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4792.JPG)

Not forgetting to add a little chamfer. Then drill and tap 2BA and finish with some metal protector so they don't tarnish  :stickpoke:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4794.JPG)

Time to sort out the lengths of the columns   :)

Jo
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: crueby on January 08, 2022, 04:03:43 PM
Nice trick with the router bit!
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Roger B on January 08, 2022, 09:14:38 PM
Still following and enjoying  :praise2: plus one for the router bit  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1:
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on January 09, 2022, 11:43:15 AM
Thanks Chris and Roger  :)

If you recall I mentioned that the columns were of different lengths. Having disassembled the engine I have found that one was .8mm longer than the rest. This was set up between centres:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4795.JPG)

And a little taken off the bottom of the curved bit of the column and reshaped. Two other columns had a smidgen taken off so now I have a set of columns all within 0.1mm of each other:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4796.JPG)

Next to look at is the cross head guides. These originally came as a large flat casting which needed to be bored to give the curved shape and the outside milled flat. Finally taken apart each casting gives four pieces as on the left:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4798.JPG)

I've seen at least one "feature" on these   ::)

Jo


Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: wagnmkr on January 09, 2022, 12:02:01 PM
Good looking parts Jo ... and another vote for the router bit trick!
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on January 09, 2022, 04:17:57 PM
Thank you Tom  :)

The outer holes in these guides are what is known as long holes. What this means is that the hole depth in comparison with the diameter is greater than 5 so the drill is likely to get bored and go off for a wander  :facepalm: I felt the need to adjust this with a needle file before rounding over the ends. The ends must be rounded because if you recall I milled the slots for these brackets and the slot has a rounded end.

Having knocked up some 7BA studs it can go together:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4800.JPG)


But it is not that easy  :ShakeHead: If you look carefully you will notice that the slots taper towards the centre - this meant that the brackets needed to be moved further out in the slots = a bit more filing and rounding.

What is needed is for the slots to be parallel so the guide blocks which are effectively the cross heads can run smoothly:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4799.JPG)

I suspect this is one of those bits will give hours of fun as part of the final assembly.   :thinking:

Jo
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on January 10, 2022, 04:06:09 PM
I decided it was time to review the remaining bits  :thinking:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4802.JPG)

Nice as they are I don't think I should risk using those two links as there is a risk the centres are not right. There is a heap of nuts and bolts (between paper and the plastic lid) that I am not convinced are from this engine   :noidea: The spacers are missing, as are the cranks and both sets of the links. I didn't feel like tackling that today as it was a bit cold...  :disappointed:

Instead I decided to clean up the flywheel and pulley. The pulley had been machined but was rusty - it needs machining again. The Flywheel had never been touched  :headscratch: When I introduced it to a file I found out why  :toilet_claw: The flashing was hard as  :censored: Having ground the flashing around the spokes down using my Foredom (and a diamond file at one point  ::) ) I got it cleaned up and have given it a quick squirt of primer so I can see any more bits that need sorting out:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4803.JPG)

I left the workshop covered with grinding dust and not feeling I had achieved much but it took a while...

Jo
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jasonb on January 10, 2022, 04:25:40 PM
When if I resurrect mine I too will be remaking the links, at the time I would have marked them out by hand so doubt they will be as accurate as I could do them now. plus it will be as quick with new metal than cleaning up the old.

As my Emco at the time could only swing 200mm dia I took my flywheel to an old boy who offered machining services from his flat over towards Dartford and he did a good job of that, can't see that there were any issues with the casting unlike the GM ones. I did machine a new Stuart 7" one yesterday and that was a very good casting both metal and shape wise.

You could always stay in the warm and do the work on Sexy and his new stable mate :stickpoke:
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on January 10, 2022, 04:49:37 PM
You could always stay in the warm and do the work on Sexy and his new stable mate :stickpoke:

Schoey is still out in the main workshop and if I go into the Library with castings there is a risk being trampled  :pinkelephant:

Tomorrow will be warmer in the workshop as I only get a couple of hours in the workshop on Monday afternoons and it takes more than that to get any real heat in the workshop. The Night storage heater will get it nice and warm for tomorrow morning then running the tooling will keep it warm until the sun goes down :)

Jo
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: bent on January 10, 2022, 06:20:44 PM
Love those acorn nuts, and the router bit trick.  :popcorn:

Wow, more "features"  :facepalm:

At least you have them mostly sorted, or a plan to sort them.  Email from our machinist friends overseas this morning: can they rotate a bolt pattern and re-drill (sounds like they bored the first ones too deep and made a hole from the inside of a valve body to the outside...but that won't be really clear until we see the parts most likely)
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on January 18, 2022, 04:18:24 PM
Wow, more "features"  :facepalm:

Fun aren't they. I'll show you this one and how I fixed it if you don't let on  ;)

I decided I better check all the crankshaft bearings lined up and

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4811.JPG)

 :rant: No they didn't. While I had correctly located the holes in the central casting I had not checked the other two. Having put them on a surface plate they were found to be 2mm low  :toilet_claw: Time for a cheat, no one is watching this thread :paranoia: so

Turn up a piece of bar the diameter of the outside of the bearing with a 8mm hole in it to save time when I carefully mill it down to 2mm thick:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4812.JPG)

Cut it off just under the inside flange measurement of the bearings:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4813.JPG)

Pop it into place to check it looks right  :-X

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4814.JPG)

I think we got away with that  ::)

I am pleased to report a long piece of bar goes straight through the four bearings and goes round and round  :naughty:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4815.JPG)

I found a casting  :pinkelephant: its the last one  :Director: We will need some more... In the meantime..

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4818.JPG)

Doesn't that look pretty  ;D No its another  :censored: one when you look closer:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4819.JPG)

And it is not recoverable sufficient to have a shiny rim  :ShakeHead:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4820.JPG)

Decorative paintwork will be the name of the game  :-\ But  it looks to be time to start the negotiation for another set of castings  :cartwheel:  :wine1:

Jo



Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: bent on January 18, 2022, 05:46:17 PM
Nice shim recovery! 

And I thought the same thing on the flywheel, a bit of putty and paint and it'll do.

Mean time I have my company coming to my office on a daily basis asking if we can substitute materials to make up for shortages...sigh.  If you think the price of plain steel is getting outrageous, try sourcing more exotic alloys (17-7 PH stainless, amongst others).  I may have to dig in harder on my retirement plans.
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: crueby on January 18, 2022, 06:03:56 PM
I'd say nice save with the shims, but none of us are watching so I didn't see that...  :Lol:
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Admiral_dk on January 18, 2022, 09:20:08 PM
Did you glue the non-save :-X into place to make it stay ?

Fine result, as usual  :cheers:
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on January 18, 2022, 09:29:28 PM
Thanks Guys  :)

Did you glue the non-save :-X into place to make it stay ?

Yes  ;)  No one should ever know on the finished model as it is hidden behind the flanges on the bearings  :-X

Jo
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Craig DeShong on January 19, 2022, 02:38:38 AM
I'd say nice save with the shims, but none of us are watching so I didn't see that...  :Lol:
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

What shims? :noidea:  I didnít see a thing!

Watching this build with interest Jo.  I find it entertaining, if not remarkable, how you salvage errors in previous peoples work. :NotWorthy:
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on January 19, 2022, 08:19:50 AM
Thank you Craig,

I believe it is just as important to know how to remove features as it is to find new and ingenious ways to apply your own    :facepalm2:

Jo
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: RReid on January 19, 2022, 02:53:12 PM
Quote
I find it entertaining, if not remarkable, how you salvage errors in previous peoples work.
I'll echo what Craig (and others) said, and add that they are also valuable lessons on salvaging errors in my own work!
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: scc on January 19, 2022, 09:13:55 PM
Ditto!   Great save,   great lesson in sorting my future cock-ups!         Terry
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Roger B on January 22, 2022, 08:19:45 AM
I'm quite sure such solutions were used in full size practice rather than casting and scrapping in new brasses  :)  :)
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on February 01, 2022, 11:31:43 AM
More joyful features  :facepalm: I've been "faffing" around trying to get the centre section of the crankshaft together, this joyful time has been caused by drawing errors:

The drawings for the guide blocks shows 1.6mm shoulders, they don't fit if they are 1.6mm, later the article mentions they should be 0.8mm. So mount them in a sub chuck and mill them down:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4822.JPG)

I put the webs of the crankshaft and all the bits and pieces together to find it was 1.6mm over width  :headscratch: and then I saw it:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4823.JPG)

 :rant: two dimensions for the same bit. The correct answer is the thinner dimension. Time to turn another 0.8mm off the outside webs, off the crank pins, the bearings and then try it all together again:

(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10007/IMG_4825.JPG)

One major issue is trying to put it together it only goes one way and the entire structure is held together with about 5 5BA threads at the weakest point, needless to say they are easily stripped  :rant:

Did I mention this is not a beginner's engine and I have a second similar one to do at some point  :Doh:

Jo
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jasonb on February 01, 2022, 12:04:52 PM
Did you also pick up that the 15/16" on the same crank assembly drawing does not add up to the sum of the parts if you are to get 5 thou clearance either side of the slippers? that means the central spacer should be 7/16" - 0.010" O/A length.
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: propforward on February 01, 2022, 12:37:48 PM
Besides the machining and set up practices here, there is a valuable lesson about thoroughly going over the drawings before starting. Based on this and some other builds I've seen and read about, I'll be very careful before starting my next engine - seems like any of the legacy models prints should not be trusted.
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jasonb on February 01, 2022, 01:04:03 PM
Redrawing in CAD would be the best option these days, but failing that a few simple calculations on a scrap of paper can save scrapping a part or having to re-machine something.
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: propforward on February 01, 2022, 02:08:50 PM
A few simple calculations should be all that is necessary, I think it's just a matter of making a point of doing that as part of the process - assuming that drawings have been corrected over time on well established engines could catch the beginner out especially, if they just assumed the drawings were correct. It's an eye opener for me that's for sure.
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on February 01, 2022, 04:11:44 PM
Did you also pick up that the 15/16" on the same crank assembly drawing does not add up to the sum of the parts if you are to get 5 thou clearance either side of the slippers? that means the central spacer should be 7/16" - 0.010" O/A length.

No I didn't find that. Horrible measurements thous and fractions  :toilet_claw:

What I have found is that the single 8BA bolt holding the top of these guides allows for a fair bit of misalignment. I was enjoying fiddling with it so much I had to come in and do some more of my cross stitch piece, which is doing better than this engine  ::)

Jo
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: bent on February 01, 2022, 06:02:38 PM
Oof.  Nowt to do but press on regardless, I suppose.  :)
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jasonb on February 01, 2022, 06:26:38 PM

No I didn't find that. Horrible measurements thous and fractions  :toilet_claw:

Yet you seem happy to use thousandths of a metre :LittleDevil:
Title: Re: James Booth 1843 Rectilinear Engine - Orphan
Post by: Jo on February 01, 2022, 06:58:54 PM
Yes, as a retired  :wine1: engineer I still use standard engineering units for lengths: metre, millimetre (mm), micrometre (Ķm) which was endorsed in the UK  before I was born  ::)

Jo