Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock

[Kim]

Another great source of clock parts is:
https://timesavers.com/

Thanks Chris,
Yes!  Cool site!  This is the only place I've found to source the mainspring I need for this clock.  They also sell various sizes of cast brass bells, which I think I'll buy.  I could turn the bell, but it would cost 10x more to buy a chunk of brass to turn a bell from as it would to just buy the cast bell! 

Kim

[propforward]

Wow - that is going to be a very intricate piece of mechanism! Delightful.

[Kim]

Thanks, Stuart! I'm pretty excited about it!

I'm still working on the bill of materials and figuring out what I need to order.  But I'm chugging along at my normal snail's pace

Kim

[Dave Otto]

Hi Kim, are you planning to order some new files? I'm guessing there is going to be quite a bit of filing on the frames, I would be curious to know what you decide on.
Pirmin and I were talking about files a while back and what he was using for fine work. I was planning to put an order together but haven't got around to it just yet.
I have a real good selection of #2 files but nothing finer.

Dave
 

[Kim]

Hi Dave,
Yes, I've been looking at getting some new files for this project.  Unfortunately, I'm not that knowledgeable in this area!  Guess I need to learn more, eh? 

I've got a random selection of larger (8-10") files some fairly nice (Nichelson), some very cheap (Harbor Freight), and a large selection of inexpensive needle files. These have been fine for me so far, but I have been looking to invest in some better files.

I just purchased a set of "nicer" Swiss pattern needle files for about $35 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MZD1FTY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1), which feel much better than anything I currently have (all of which were in the $6 price range per set - quite cheap).  My newly acquired set seem nice enough, though I'm certain they are as good as real swiss files, which seem to go for ~$160 per set.

I'd love to learn more about what I want/need here.  Any advice would be quite welcome!

Kim

[paul gough]

Hi Kim, Files are very variable items, having used many over sixty years, almost any reasonable quality file will do general work. Your sense of touch or feel and the materials to be worked on and just how accurate you need to be are criteria to consider. For small model engineering work on steel brands like Bahco, Pferd or others of this quality are satisfactory. When it comes to working with brass and similar material a file that is sharp and stays that way is a pleasure to use and contributes significantly to accuracy and achieving a high finish. My experience for working with brass on small items has led me to reach for a Vallorbe or a genuine Grobet. I have a bias to the Vallorbe but when I lived in Cairns I discussed this very issue with Chris, Clickspring to most people and he uses Grobet, sourcing them from the US. I am sure there are German files equal to these but I have no knowledge or experience with them. In conclusion, I would get a few high quality files for fine and accurate work with brass and keep them exclusively for this type of work. Hope you can find what you need. Regards, Paul Gough.

[Krypto]

Might be of interest if you haven't seen it yet:

https://archive.org/details/NicholsonFilePhilosophy1928

https://archive.org/details/NicholsonFilePhilosophy1943

The older version really gets into the nuts and bolts of using a file which is somewhat lost in today's world.

Care in Putting Away

One of the most destructive customs is that of loosely throwing files, fine and coarse, small and large, into a drawer filled with cold chisels, hammers, turning tools, etc., and then throwing the chisels, hammers and other tools on to the files.

When we consider how small a portion of the points of the teeth is worn off by extreme wear when the file is properly used, and that to effectually dull them for some kinds of work requires but slight knocking upon a hard substance, it will be easily seen that the evils of this habit should be more carefully considered by the master mechanic, and suitable provision made to avoid its destructive tendencies.

[Kim]

Thanks Paul and Krypto!
Good to hear what files Click Spring uses!  Not sure I'll ever have all Grobet files, but maybe a few...
Great info!  Those Nichelson pamphlets are interesting.

Kim

[uuu]

I keep a set aside for using on brass - with yellow cable-ties through a hole in the handle to identify them.  So the edges don't get blunted by use on steel.

Wilf

PS I use Vallorbe

[Charles Lamont]

Hi Kim, Files are very variable items, having used many over sixty years, almost any reasonable quality file will do general work. Your sense of touch or feel and the materials to be worked on and just how accurate you need to be are criteria to consider. For small model engineering work on steel brands like Bahco, Pferd or others of this quality are satisfactory. When it comes to working with brass and similar material a file that is sharp and stays that way is a pleasure to use and contributes significantly to accuracy and achieving a high finish. My experience for working with brass on small items has led me to reach for a Vallorbe or a genuine Grobet. I have a bias to the Vallorbe but when I lived in Cairns I discussed this very issue with Chris, Clickspring to most people and he uses Grobet, sourcing them from the US. I am sure there are German files equal to these but I have no knowledge or experience with them. In conclusion, I would get a few high quality files for fine and accurate work with brass and keep them exclusively for this type of work. Hope you can find what you need. Regards, Paul Gough.

I am confused. F L Grobet was one of three of the 19thC file makers in Vallorbe which merged to form Usines Métallurgiques de Vallorbe. UMV no longer seems to use the Grobet brand name, just using Vallorbe and Glardon. Grobet USA seems to be a different company. Where are Grobet files made now? 

[PJPickard]

Hi Kim,

Wilding is a legend of course and I have that book too but never made the clock. W.R. Smith was an excellent craftsman and (IMHO) a much better describer of clock builds. Many of his clocks were serialized in The Home Shop Machinist and are available here in book form:
https://wrsmithclocks.com/books/

I will be following this!

[paul gough]

Hi Charles, Keeping track of the changes to tool manufacturers is becoming something of a headache as many of them source from different countries for different products as well as splitting production of similar products between two countries and change names and or owners, frequently unbeknown to us. My knowledge is a few years old but as far as I know Vallorbe is still Swiss made. Grobet changed hands a while back and started making files in Italy, I think(?). I have basically got what I need to see me out, so don’t  worry about keeping up with things like this too much. I expect a search on the web would allow you to track things down. My policy now is to make the vendor confirm sources of manufacture, after all they are getting paid. Regards, Paul Gough.

[cnr6400]

Kim, before spending huge money on the very best files, I'd suggest checking your local dollar stores or low buck tool outlets. I have found some absolutely horrible files at these sorts of places but occasionally have found some superb ones at very low cost, a couple bucks for 5 or 6 small ones. Worth a look. The better ones are very hard and cut beautifully. For brass use I paint the ends of the files yellow and store them held apart in wood block holders. When shopping for files I take a piece of 0-1 gauge plate, unhardened, to test the cutting ability of the files for sale. You can tell right away if the hardness and cut are OK or if they're rubbish. If files work properly I really don't care where they came from or who made them. There are bargains out there, on files. Just food for thought. 

[Kim]

Thanks for all the good file advice, everyone! I will definitely get some that I'll dedicate to brass-only work. I haven't really paid much attention to that before now, but I will definitely do so now.

Kim

[Dave Otto]

Hi Kim

I guess what  I was thinking with my original post on the files was that you may need something other than the #2 cut of the Swiss pattern files that you have. As mentioned I also have a rather large assortment of these files. I always have been somewhat disappointed and surprised at how good they are a putting scratches on your work. What I have discovered and never really thought about it until lately is, that for a nice scratch free finish you need at least a #4 cut file or maybe finer.
They don't come cheap though, McMaster has them in a #4 cut and they are close to $20 each. American Rotary Tool has a nice selection but also pricey.
https://www.artcotools.com/collections/grobet-swiss-precision-files

I do have a couple #4s but they are special shapes, I need to start picking some more up a few at a time.

Dave