Model Engine Maker
Engines => From Kits/Castings => Topic started by: propforward on August 26, 2018, 06:53:54 PM
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A well known casting set - I have seen several excellent builds of this, all serving as really good background info to help me along.
This is the advertised finished model, from the PMR site. It didn't grab me straight away, but has grown on me somewhat.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Ht2tcLP/0/26fe7853/L/STEAM-ENGINE-1-L.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Ht2tcLP/A)
I bought this kit back in 2015, got waylaid a bit, but am finally ready make a start.
I'm sure this will be a slow project, but I am keen to tackle the challenges posed by a set of castings, and today I actually took that tentative first step.
Here is the kit
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-9v9XXh9/0/4ed5ea03/L/IMG_3636%20%28Large%29-L.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-9v9XXh9/A)
And, since a journey of 1000 mile starts with a single step, I'll start with this.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-z9NhDWs/0/f674e467/X3/IMG_3638%20%28Large%29-X3.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-z9NhDWs/A)
Got the 'ol hacksaw out, and separated these parts. This one is getting some attention today.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Pj6gS84/0/1637f9bf/X3/IMG_3639%20%28Large%29-X3.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Pj6gS84/A)
All I've done so far is square the sides up, and clean up the sealing surface.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-2QXTXWC/0/85608dd9/X3/IMG_3641%20%28Large%29-X3.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-2QXTXWC/A)
Annoyingly, the camera makes the machined surface look a lot rougher than it is. Can barely feel the machining marks. Even so, I'll give this a clean up and polish.
I had to take a little break, but I'm heading back down the shed shortly to spot and drill holes in it. I just wanted to shout about starting an engine. My work tramming the mill paid off, this part has the most square surfaces I have ever machined.
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Following along. :popcorn:
I've always liked that engine.
My work tramming the mill paid off, this part has the most square surfaces I have ever machined.
:ThumbsUp:
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Now with added holes. I'll call it a success - machined a new material (cast iron), and got the holes in the right place. The casting is a bit rough. I fettled it a bit on the corners but a little more clean up work needed there. The bosses for the screws nearly disappeared entirely, and I'm tempted to machine the top surface around the whole perimeter to clean it up, but for now I'll leave it as it is.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-FhHqwMf/0/cb82fefe/X3/IMG_3642%20%28Large%29-X3.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-FhHqwMf/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-VvcXzzr/0/95675c8f/X3/IMG_3643%20%28Large%29-X3.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-VvcXzzr/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-d6VHkKB/0/a3ea47a1/X3/IMG_3644%20%28Large%29-X3.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-d6VHkKB/A)
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Nice start Stuart. This one never grabbed me either for a long time, the I kind of warmed up to it and now it's one of my best runners. It's a fun project in any case.
Bill
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Looks like you are off and running Prop. Just take your sweet time and study each casting thoughorly. Marv ,very wisely,recommends, writing down the order of operations: and that really helps.
Eric
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That is solid advice, and it holds true on bar stock components too. I'm going to force myself to take that approach on this build.
That steam chest cover will benefit from some more attention yet. The rough corners are really bugging me, where there wasn't enough stock to clean up when machining the edges - plus the "recess" is just ugly. The casting used to have letters cast in it, which looked great, but the mould must have been changed or it's become beaten up over time. I had hoped to get nice clean boss surfaces on the top plate - but again not enough stock.
So, I may go back and clean the surface around the perimeter, and possibly even in the recess. But for now I want to concentrate on dimensional accuracy and fit. So I'll clean the rough casting corners by hand, get the backside polished on a surface plate and get everything deburred, and move on.
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a journey of 1000 mile starts with a single step,
So true! Love it...
Will be interested to see this develop.
gary
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Any progress on the #1 Stuart? No rush and I know you have had other things to do also. I can relate to that as I haven't posting anything on the #5 or the Little Pearl in ages. Sometimes the diversions are good :)
Bill
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Thanks for checking in! No new parts yet - the last few weeks have focused on getting the lathe straight. Today I finished up mounting the new 4 jaw chuck, and sorted out my crappy old coolant dispenser with a new one, as well as miscellaneous other shop organization tasks.
With all that done, I picked up the plans and castings, intent on making a part - but realized that I have not yet made any work plans for any parts. I really want to take a disciplined approach to planning how I make each part this time, so the drawings will go to work with me so that I can make some run cards at lunchtimes. That probably means two weeks before I can cut more metal, since next weekend I have other plans, but it means I'll hit the ground running come the next shop session.
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Your patient, methodical approach will bear fruit in due course - you can be sure of it.
gary
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This isn't a very exciting post, but I've been trying to decide which parts to get started on, now that my lathe and mill are adjusted. I've been going over the plans in detail, and reading Bills excellent log on this engine. Thought I'd share with you an example of my planning notes - this one for the very simple oil cup:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-ZT2r3NT/0/fb5f29df/XL/Sample%20Run%20Card-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-ZT2r3NT/A)
I like using spreadsheets for this - easy to change. Plus I have a pooter in the shop, and I keep these files on a cloud based server, so I can access them from work during lunch. I'd really like to scan the drawings and have each part drawing on each run card too. Might do that.
The idea is to try and figure out the "gotchas" before I get there. I do so hate painting myself into a corner.
The oil cups might be a nice starting point, but really it looks like this engine actually needs some of the complex parts made fairly early on - especially the cylinder, since so much depends on that.
I will likely be spending some time doing dry runs on scrap stock with my rotary table for bolt hole patterns, since I've never done that before. A big advantage of a little pre planning is that it does highlight risk areas.
Well, hopefully I'll have some tangible making to report on later on.
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Looks like a plan Stuart. One thing you might consider is using grub screws instead of threading the small end. You can get full threads the whole way then, and drill your #60 hole through the grub screw. They aren't that hard. Just a thought.
Bill
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Do you mean use a grub screw instead of the hex brass stock Bill? Interesting idea. I haven't started the oil cups yet.
Instead, I made a start on the outboard cylinder cover. A tricky item, being a somewhat thin casting. I turned the OD in 2 stages - from one end, then flipped around. I couldn't think of another way of doing it.
Since the part has to be machined down to a step, that more or less got rid of the line on the OD from the two stage turning, and the OD is close enough that when I clean and polish parts that mark will go away.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-nGFWFtL/0/782f5b64/XL/IMG_5023%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-nGFWFtL/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-3b4MbtM/0/056b9f1e/XL/IMG_5025%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-3b4MbtM/A)
Mostly finished part. I actually need to skim the face and shave 3 thou of the small diameter. I didn't plan to do it this way, I had intended these turnings to be finished. However, since I am only a few thou oversize, I'll wait until the cylinder is done before dressing this up.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-2kNcJ3k/0/ce823619/XL/IMG_5026%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-2kNcJ3k/A)
So I turned my attention to said cylinder. I have been scheming about this part for a while, so I decided to proceed.
Started by dressing some of the uglier bits of flash on the belt sander.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-ptFJMFG/0/159924c2/XL/IMG_5027%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-ptFJMFG/A)
Then used a dead center to get the casting mostly straight in the chuck. There is plenty of material to get a clean bore, so this seems to be as precise as needed to start making datum faces.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-P9ptBqV/0/51217145/XL/IMG_5028%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-P9ptBqV/A)
I basically just did a minimum clean on each end, leaving plenty of material, to get parallel faces for holding in the mill. My plan is to get each end to length once the steam chest is made, and reference everything off that.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-FNsj9sW/0/79538106/XL/IMG_5029%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-FNsj9sW/A)
So I set the cylinder up in the mill. I used a height gauge to get each side of the steam chest area level before starting to clean up, then took the top close to the valve gland boss.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-wsp3TB8/0/3388297f/XL/IMG_5030%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-wsp3TB8/A)
Then I started cleaning up the inside of the steam chest.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-D9sH3bc/0/0cdacb23/XL/IMG_5033%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-D9sH3bc/A)
Now that I have straight edges, I can locate those accurately, and mill the sides and bottom of the chest to depth. Then I'll move on to the port slots.
Fairly happy with how things are going at this point.
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It does seem to take me a long time to get stuff done though. But on the other hand, the day flies by, so I must be enjoying it. I wonder if I'm going about things the most efficient way, but I'm basically approaching the project to minimise set ups. That's a form of efficiency, though my driver is one of not losing datums.
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What are those narrow pieces between the chuck jaws when turning the cylinder cap? Do they attach to the chuck somehow?
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Yes, that’s a chuck spider from Edge Technologies. It’s a 3 armed device, with strong magnets, that holds different ground parallels, to put behind thinner jobs and hold them square to the chuck. It’s the first time I used it today - works rather well.
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Hello Stuart,
Good start and will be fun to follow this build.
Have a great day,
Thomas
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Thanks Thomas! I shall be pleased to hear any comments of yours as we go along, thanks for checking in.
Here is more on the spider:
http://www.edgetechnologyproducts.com/chuck-stop-set/
Bit pricey, but fair value. I never had much luck setting up with parallels. Could never seem to get thin items square. I got mine in a sale somewhere - might have been Shars.
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http://www.edgetechnologyproducts.com/chuck-stop-set/ (http://www.edgetechnologyproducts.com/chuck-stop-set/)
Bit pricey, but fair value. I never had much luck setting up with parallels. Could never seem to get thin items square. I got mine in a sale somewhere - might have been Shars.
Slick unit, thanks!
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Stuart, no I mean using grub screws instead of turning down the bottom and threading it. Tap the body of the oil cup below the reservoir 2-56 and then loctite the grub screw in place after drilling through it.
Bill
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Stuart, no I mean using grub screws instead of turning down the bottom and threading it. Tap the body of the oil cup below the reservoir 2-56 and then loctite the grub screw in place after drilling through it.
Bill
Now thats a clever trick!
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It works well Chris. I think you get stronger threads and also threads up to the very bottom of the oil cup.
Bill
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Oh I see! Yes that makes a lot of sense. I can see how you would get better engagement that way. Thanks for the tip!
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I don't quite understand Bill's suggestion re grub screw and oil cup so take pictures!
I like that spider but as you say, a bit pricey. Can those parallels also be used in a vise? How thick are they?
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Rather than turning threads on a post at the bottom of the cup, drill and tap a hole for a screw into the bottom of the cup. Drill a through hole in the grub screw and loctote it into the threaded hole in the bottom of the cup. The grub screw forms the threaded post.
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Well, I just got done milling the steam chest out, and I must say I'm happy with how this has gone. I had to put together a coordinate diagram for it, and then carefully keep track of my handwheel positions, because I don't have DRO's (not likely to add these in the foreseeable future), and also made sure to write down diagrams to remind me which way to turn the handles (sounds obvious but I've fallen foul of that before).
Anyway, I'm 2 thou over on the depth of the chest, which is within my general tolerance goal of ±0.005 so I'm pleased. Looks decent too, in my opinion.
Now I'm trying to decide how to center the slots in the bottom of the chest. I can easily do that from the sides of the steam chest, but then how to center the bore in relation to that? Need to give that some thought. I have a feeling that if I center the slots in relation to the casting OD, that everything will line up well enough. Have to double check dimensions on the valve etc, make sure everything will work if I do that. Also need to get some small milling cutters, so this is it for now. Got to go and do some chores. Leaving the cylinder where it is for now, because I want to mill the slots, and also drill the holes for the cover before moving it.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-bMFWwk6/0/0163ed91/XL/IMG_5034%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-bMFWwk6/A)
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That finish turned out well Stuart. You are making some good progress already!!
Bill
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Very nice! Glad I am not the only one who maps out the moves. :popcorn:
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Thanks much. It was quite fun - the chest filled up with chips of course, so I patiently kept milling and carefully keeping track of location. Then when I vacuumed out the chips at the end, was absolutely delighted with the result. Shouldn't take much to get the base and flange smooth to make good seals.
I have to use a map for the milling pattern on something like this, or I'll end up in a world of hurt - or at least a ruined part. :D Don't need that at this stage!
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Looking great Stuart. I centered my ports to the bore by doing it and then turning it ninety degrees from the way you are holding yours, inserted a plug and centered from that.
Whiskey
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Well, I spent the week mulling this over, poring over the plans, and decided that I didn't have my machining sequence optimized. What I failed to do, was interpret the relationship between the position of the steam chest floor and lip in relation to the cast boss on the inboard end of the steam chest. If I want the gland centered in that boss (and I really do), then it is best to machine the steam chest to that feature. That means boring the cylinder, then drilling at least a center hole position in the boss, and referencing from that.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-wMBbKz5/0/99ccf362/XL/IMG_5057%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-wMBbKz5/A)
Well before tearing down, I measured the height of the boss, then measured the lip and floor of the steam chest, and found that if I want to center the gland in the boss, I still have 0.024" of steam chest to machine away. That gives me enough material to go back to the lathe, machine the bore and outboard face, and then come back and true everything up and keep going, so no harm done.
I decided that since it was all set up, and that I am pretty sure I can get the faces of the cylinder true to the lathe chuck, I might as well drill the bolt holes. So I did, using the cover as a template.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-ZZFMX3M/0/c71d7362/X2/IMG_5038%20%28Large%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-ZZFMX3M/A)
So on to boring.
Except - that's a pretty new operation to me, and I haven't had a lot of success with it. Time to change that.
I spent a good bit of time on saturday reading up on making boring bars and bits. I discovered in the old, mostly crappy lathe tool kit that came with the lathe, that I had a 3/8" boring bar, with a 1/8" square HSS tool blank in it. Perfect!
I made several cutting tools, and had several attempts at boring out a piece of aluminum rod that I had left over from a project. It already had a 20 mm hole in it, so this gave me a good practice piece.
After several dismal attempts I shut up shop and spent a few hours doing more research. Armed with some internet pictures and some advice from books etc, I returned to the shop this morning, and had another attempt at grinding a tool. This is really tricky on a small tool blank, and doing it freehand, on my bench grinder which has very curved edges on the wheels, but I made this thing.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-vRZVLzV/0/90d427a2/X2/IMG_5040%20%28Large%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-vRZVLzV/A)
It doesn't look very impressive, but the clearances and rakes are more or less kind of sort of where they need to be.
A few test cuts in aluminum showed that if I make 2 cuts for each diameter position, I can get a good finish. My reading suggested this was necessary, to account for boring bar flex. The first cut tends to be a bit rough, but the second one cleans up well.
I still didn't want to rush on to my cast iron cylinder just yet, so I gave it a go in a piece of stainless pipe I had laying around.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Lmfwb56/0/de3f3b81/XL/IMG_5041%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Lmfwb56/A)
The finish actually felt very good to me, so since I had everything set up I took a deep breath and decided to have a try at cleaning the bore.
Here is my set up
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-5rMbfMs/0/0ac8c96a/XL/IMG_5044%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-5rMbfMs/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-hptdf2j/0/4f4d279a/XL/IMG_5046%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-hptdf2j/A)
As you can see, I cut off the excess piece of tool blank from the far side, and I have to have a goodly amount of overhang of the tool bar. The bore has plenty of material to take out, so I felt OK making a start with a light cut to see how things went. If it went poorly I could abort and still save the part. I set up the cylinder in the chuck by using parallels behind it on the machined face, and pushing it against them using a dead center in the tail stock. This had the part running very true in terms of the machined cylinder faces relative to the chuck.
After a couple of passes, I judged that everything was proceeding satisfactorily enough, that it was time to make a bid for the 1.000" bore.
To help, I noted the crossfeed dial position each time, and measured the bore using a bore gauge and micrometer, noting the nominal cut taken and any error. I wanted to get a feel for variation in diameter so that I could account for that as I got close to size.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-W88JpdC/0/a6172dd5/XL/IMG_5052%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-W88JpdC/A)
It worked out well. Certainly I sneaked up on the bore size, but I got it, and I think the finish is acceptable. (Hard to tell from the blurry picture).
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-KxZwx3B/0/0c44e24d/XL/IMG_5051%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-KxZwx3B/A)
The icing on the cake was testing the bore with this aluminum plug. The plug measures 0.999" on my micrometer, and it slid evenly through the whole cylinder, with no detectable play, and no binding as I pushed it through. So I'll call the bore good. I may hone it at some point, but I'll be honest, I feel like my machine set up efforts, and taking the time to test new techniques are really paying off.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-7GNs34C/0/f230ff96/XL/IMG_5053%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-7GNs34C/A)
Since it was all set up so nicely, I decided to face the cylinder to length on the outboard end. I did this by measuring from a scribed center on one of the side port bosses. The inboard end will be machined to length from this new turned face.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-3KcGXrH/0/d7b1a56e/XL/IMG_5054%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-3KcGXrH/A)
Finished outboard end. The machined away boss that end is not used on this engine.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-35ttFmq/0/17c6c85f/XL/IMG_5055%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-35ttFmq/A)
Colour me happy.
While in the shed, I have also made a start on cleaning up the base. Just by using emery paper on my surface plate. I need to take a little bit more off, just enough to make the underside flat with some clean metal all around.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-tVtkVpn/0/5d9a1745/XL/IMG_5058%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-tVtkVpn/A)
While digging around I found a nice piece of 3/8" thick aluminum, left over from some work project or another. I'll flatten the top of it, and use it as a jig plate to hold the base casting.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-fbZhqzk/0/6555bd35/XL/IMG_5043%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-fbZhqzk/A)
I also found this lovely piece of cold rolled steel, a chunk of which is going to be used to make some new boring bar holders, based on the documents kindly sent to me by Baner.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-pjbnTCR/0/b1dba538/XL/IMG_5059%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-pjbnTCR/A)
So, some success. I feel good about all this. Next step is to machine the inboard face and gland to length, then I'll get back to the steam chest and finish that.
One thing that is very apparent, is that I really need to make the grinding table for my bench grinder. I have Howard Halls book - Tool and Cutter Sharpening (Workshop practice series 38) which has a nice design in it. That will really help for getting cutting bits made properly, once and for all.
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Looks great to me Stuart.
I'm following along with interest and looking forward to seeing it running :)
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Excellent result!
:popcorn:
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I'm going to closely follow this thread as this is an engine I'd like to do in the near future as my first engine from castings.
Good work so far!
Mike
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Glad to hear it turned out well. It looks great in the pictures too.
Bill
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I'd say your boring of the cylinder turned out very nicely!
I made Harold Hall's grinding rest a while back. Here's my build thread if you're interested: http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,4045.0.html (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,4045.0.html)
I do like it. It was a nice project and I use it all the time when sharpening tools (as one would suspect :)). My only complaint is that it's a bit of a pain to setup, but it works nicely never the less.
One thing I would suggest is to make the Drill sharpening jig for 135o as opposed to 118o. Most of the drills I want to sharpen are 135o. I messed up a few initially as I was sharpening them all with the same jig, then I realized what I was doing :(.
I still haven't gone back to make a 135o jig yet, but I plan to!
It's a great project to do, and very useful too. I would definitely recommend it!
Kim
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Thanks all, I do appreciate you following along, and your positive comments.
Kim - that build log on the grinding table is excellent! Thanks for that, I shall read the whole thread as background material.
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Progressing nicely Stuart.
Your patient approach is paying off.
gary
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It's been too long since I worked on this engine. I stopped because I became unsure of my sequences and thought I might be painting myself into a corner. Plus I wanted to work on the piston, which is a steel item and I was having difficulty with that.
Anyway, I am leaving the piston aside for now, although good progress has been made with steel finishes.
Today I reviewed the cylinder, and elected to continue. I had not yet machined the cylinder to length, so that was today's job.
First thing I did was just to check parallelism of the faces and the bore, to reassure myself they had been made correctly - which they had. I was happy about that.
Then I mounted the cylinder in the 3 jaw, with my Edge Technology chuck spider to hold it square, and machined the opposite face.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-fFhxjjd/0/741b49b9/XL/IMG_5253%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-fFhxjjd/A)
The gland boss in this picture has to remain proud of the cylinder face by 1/8", so I'm turning from the inside out. I had originally thought about milling this face, but this seemed a better technique in the end. It worked out fine - I got the length within 0.001" of print according to my micrometer, so I'll take that.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-zghZm3k/0/2dde0798/XL/IMG_5255%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-zghZm3k/A)
I decided to start work on the various bosses and slots. The gland boss still had about .013" to come off to get to the right length, and although I could have done that while turning the face, I finished it in the mill.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-zZLvzwv/0/b30aba98/XL/IMG_5256%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-zZLvzwv/A)
For Christmas, I got one of these handy dandy gadgets. I must say, it makes centering a bore or a rod on the mill an absolute breeze.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-5dmjv8Q/0/a138bd21/X2/IMG_5257%20%28Large%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-5dmjv8Q/A)
I then proceeded to center drill and drill the features on the gland boss.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-rtZBvq6/0/1defbaea/X2/IMG_5259%20%28Large%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-rtZBvq6/A)
Unfortunately the gland boss ended up slightly off center relative to the holes and the face of the steam chest. When I machined the steam chest I did not quite judge the height of the face right. I don't think this will matter in the end, just doesn't look quite perfect. The drawings were a little unclear in that regard. Part of the learning experience. They should really give a dimension from the center of the bore to the face of the steam chest.
I also cleaned up the faces of the port bosses, but decided bot to drill the holes just yet.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Hd8snw8/0/20e15478/X2/IMG_5260%20%28Large%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Hd8snw8/A)
What I want to do next is mill the 3 slots in the base of the steam chest, so I started getting that set up.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-VpBcBhx/0/9de31137/XL/IMG_5262%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-VpBcBhx/A)
This is as far as I got today. I need to level the steam chest, then I can find the center of the chest from the cylinder faces. I think I will actually clamp the cylinder in a V block or something though, so that I can find the center of the bore as well. I should have machined the slots when I had the cylinder set up for the steam chest perhaps, but I should be able to get where I need to.
Anyway, good to be working on the engine again, hopefully more progress tomorrow.
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Looking great Stuart. I centered my ports to the bore by doing it and then turning it ninety degrees from the way you are holding yours, inserted a plug and centered from that.
Whiskey
Perfect - glad I read back through the thread. This will work, and I’ve already got a very close fitting rod to use. Cheers!
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For Christmas, I got one of these handy dandy gadgets. I must say, it makes centering a bore or a rod on the mill an absolute breeze.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-5dmjv8Q/0/a138bd21/X2/IMG_5257%20%28Large%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-5dmjv8Q/A)
You too, eh?
I fancied one of these too but decided not to push it too far. Next year...
Nice progress on the engine.
gary
:ThumbsUp:
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You too, eh?
Oh yes! Appropriate unsubtle hints were left. ;D
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You will very much enjoy the coax indicator Stuart. Santa did well :)
Bill
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Santa is a good egg, and listens well. ;D
Anyway, pressing on today. I set up with a very close fitting rod to let me locate the center of the bore.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-L2g2FzW/0/a7c4f82e/XL/IMG_5263%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-L2g2FzW/A)
Using the two clamps allowed me to adjust the level of the top machined surface of the steam chest (and therefore the base of the steam chest).
I aligned the V blocks supporting the rod to the Kurt vise using other V blocks - which worked really well. I did double check that the faces of the cylinder were parallel to the X axis of the table.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Qpt872D/0/e6dd62ba/XL/IMG_5264%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Qpt872D/A)
Clearance was a problem with this set up. It worked out fine for the larger slot, although I had to extend the milling cutter a way.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-cVTxPBS/0/fa359287/XL/IMG_5265%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-cVTxPBS/A)
Got the slot done. I also noticed that I could clean up the one side of the chest a bit more, and put radii in the two corners. I may well do that at some point. Should have done a better job up front.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-HW2CDR8/0/6e4578fb/XL/IMG_5267%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-HW2CDR8/A)
Of course - having finished it, I realised that the supplied drawings specify the slot with from the outside quadrants of the radius at the ends of the slot - whereas at work we always dimension slots from the center of the end circles - which is because that is most useful to the mill operator. So unfortunately this slot is too wide. However, I think it will still work. I'll make sure the valve suits the slot. And in future, I'll be more careful to check all dimensions on supplied prints as to how they are defined.
I'm also disappointed about the ridges in the slot, which are a result of milling the slot in stages. I wonder what I could have done to avoid these ridges? I locked down the cross slides when milling this, but maybe there is a backlash adjustment I need to make? Need to give that some thought.
So on to the smaller slots. And here I got in to some difficulty. I simply could not get close enough with my quick change collet holder, so had to resort to using the standard Jacobs chuck for milling the two small slots. I may have to obtain some standard R8 collets - or a better approach might be to make / modify some clamp bars to a lower profile for small work.
I did have to move clamps around throughout the process, but I managed to get the job done.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-pvxsL7w/0/0a0f7caf/XL/IMG_5269%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-pvxsL7w/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-dK5BBjT/0/d323f7a7/XL/IMG_5270%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-dK5BBjT/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-6RD2B82/0/0867f9e2/XL/IMG_5271%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-6RD2B82/A)
Finished:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-kMZFdmk/0/96c3aab6/XL/IMG_5272%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-kMZFdmk/A)
Not the prettiest. Improvement needed of course. However, depth of the short slots was only 0.005" over nominal - so getting the hang of dealing with quill backlash, which is encouraging, and everything seems to be in the right place.
Close up of the ridges
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-4ZR9GwX/0/41d16d90/XL/IMG_5273%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-4ZR9GwX/A)
I don't think these will affect the operation of the engine, but obviously I'd like to improve on that.
To finish up for the day, I put the side holes in.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-gkZTKSx/0/8375dff0/XL/IMG_5274%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-gkZTKSx/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-KWQR8FH/0/7690e640/XL/IMG_5275%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-KWQR8FH/A)
I now face the challenge of making four porting drillings, at 20°, to port the two small slots to the bore. I started looking at the use of an angle plate I have, but did not get very far. I think I want to use the tight fitting rod to find the bore center to locate the ports. Anyway - more thought needed, and hope to put some time in on this tomorrow after getting my chores done.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-8XKCLkS/0/6969cb39/XL/IMG_5277%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-8XKCLkS/A)
I've got this, but I'm not seeing a way of using it and keeping access to the bore, which I need in order to position the ports. I think.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Q4Z2d5D/0/e1d3af0a/X3/IMG_5278%20%28Large%29-X3.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Q4Z2d5D/A)
Thanks for looking. As usual - mixed feelings. Some things went OK, other things didn't turn out as well as I hoped, but I think I'm still looking at a functional cylinder to get to a working engine at this point. However, I'm desperately trying to make really nice looking parts, not just functional ones. I'll get there.
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The parts are looking pretty nice Stuart!
An enjoyable build to follow, keep up the good work!
John
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Thanks John, I appreciate you looking in and your positive comments. I'm not as skilled as most other members on this forum, with some of their frankly astounding builds, but practice makes perfect and all that. I need more hours "behind the wheels" of my machines.
Anyway, a bit more progress. Yesterday I fixed up my rotary table, and made a successful test, so today I went live with it.
I finished the step on the outboard cylinder head, so that it fit nicely in to the cylinder.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-J8c53wW/0/f90a1293/XL/IMG_5293%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-J8c53wW/A)
Then I turned it round and dressed up the outside a bit.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Rdwp5dJ/0/7002c921/XL/IMG_5294%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Rdwp5dJ/A)
I decided on just enough clean up to provide a flat surface for the clamping nuts when the time comes. I felt it maintained the "cleaned up casting" look. Maybe it should be cleaned up a bit more. Don't know yet.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-C4BSVkh/0/db006125/XL/IMG_5296%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-C4BSVkh/A)
Anyway, on to the rotary table, and spotted and drilled the bolt holes.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-VQtJfxD/0/ebd826e6/XL/IMG_5297%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-VQtJfxD/A)
Something got out of position, because when I went in to deburr the holes, the chamfers are definetely out of synch with the main bolt hole pattern. Not that they will be seen on the finished engine, but these kinds of errors and mishaps really grind my gears. Must do better than this. I bet I moved the slip ring 5 degree dial collar on the crank handle - it is only spring loaded, and has has no locking screw. I may well add one to try and avoid this.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-7f9Hx2p/0/9a76b649/XL/IMG_5299%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-7f9Hx2p/A)
I thought I would make a start on this part.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-R4SB4jx/0/d5b84557/XL/IMG_5300%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-R4SB4jx/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-8MVNDTF/0/df10ad25/XL/IMG_5301%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-8MVNDTF/A)
Cleaning up and getting ready:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-hJ8pSkf/0/60b44f17/XL/IMG_5302%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-hJ8pSkf/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-JDcdr4J/0/9681aad1/XL/IMG_5303%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-JDcdr4J/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-5ft75cs/0/4cd6b9e2/XL/IMG_5304%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-5ft75cs/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Cm5k622/0/7fe4f25d/XL/IMG_5305%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Cm5k622/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-hHQ9t76/0/bfa7c1f1/XL/IMG_5306%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-hHQ9t76/A)
Lots to do yet.
Anyway, something that has been bothering me is the backlash on my lathe cross feed. The cross feed just feels really slack, and then today the backlash seemed to increase on the main carriage. When I turn the dial on the carriage, the backlash gets taken up, I can feel everything engage - but then I can turn the dial a bit more, feeling a little more resistance, before it really starts to drive. I was worried that a gear might be slipping on a shaft or something, so I have taken most of the saddle and cross slide apart. I want to just make sure everything is set up right before going any further.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-vvKnkX3/0/389bf51a/XL/IMG_5308%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-vvKnkX3/A)
It will be good just to look everything over and make sure all is well. Seems like I spend more time setting up my machines than actually making things.
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Progressing, nice and steady.
Frustrating as it is, you did right to dismantle the cross-slide to diagnose the slop. If you hadn't, it would have niggled at you...
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Thanks Gary, you're absolutely right. Also, when I took it apart I found a lot of "stuff" stick in nooks and crannies that I can now get out of there - I think left over from the manufacture of the lathe. I can't find anything wrong, but I'll clean and regrease everything and have it back together this weekend, and I can get that cross slide motion tightened up a little bit too. If nothing else, I'll feel good knowing more about the way this tool was built.
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Way to go. It's bound to improve the machine and how you feel about it.
Looking back to the start of your thread here, you've got to love that five-spoked flywheel:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Ht2tcLP/0/26fe7853/L/STEAM-ENGINE-1-L.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Ht2tcLP/A)
This engine will be a beauty when it's done.
8)
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Thanks Gary. I think this will be a nice engine. Funny thing is, when I first looked at the engine on line I didn't like it at all, but after a while it really grew on me, so I'm excited to be moving it along.
Lathe is all back together - feels a little better now.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-kJ65kJt/0/18fe550e/XL/IMG_5316%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Stuff/Shed/i-kJ65kJt/A)
I've been reorganizing as well - moving some of my raw material off the wooden shelves, and sorting out tool storage there. Still got to do the lower shelf.
With the lathe back together I made some progress on the cylinder.
I mounted it on the angle plate. I used a 1-2-3 block as a stop, and made sure that was parallel to the table, then repeated the parallelism check on the face of the cylinder once I had it clamped in place.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-bJRmXjw/0/256da864/XL/IMG_5311%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-bJRmXjw/A)
I used an edge finder to find the center of the high edge of the bore, and then after a little trigonometry calculated the position of the centers of the two port holes, and spot faced them with a 1/8" end mill, then drilled down to the slot that was previously milled in the steam chest.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-bRBBXL8/0/a796316c/XL/IMG_5313%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-bRBBXL8/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-wSWC5m7/0/f3edf1ad/XL/IMG_5314%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-wSWC5m7/A)
I am pleased that I hit the slots dead on - right at each end of the slot. It was a real fulfilling sense of achievement when I felt the drill break thru into the slot.
Now to turn it over and repeat on the other side. This part is actually close to completion! I hope to drill the other ports tomorrow, and do a little more turning on the inboard head.
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Cylinder is looking great.
So is your shop. Mine is chaos at the moment... :o
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Thanks Gary. My shop is about the only thing I'm having success with at the moment.
I drilled the other two port holes today, but got them off center. They will still work, but I'm getting a bit tired of making parts "that will still work". Not sure where I went wrong - whether it was in finding center or if I just indexed too far when moving to the drill point. I'm not even going to post pictures, too embarrassing. I might go ahead and buy a new casting, on the basis that implementing what I've learned on the first one will make for a really nice second one, however I shall be extremely disappointed if I have to replace every casting in the kit.
Which brings me to my second issue of the day, and a real disaster.
I picked up the inboard head again, and was having a good time with it. I cleaned it up, got all diameters and faces true, and even drilled and reamed the through hole.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-8GChGmH/0/7d6da5a9/XL/IMG_5324%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-8GChGmH/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-XhzBvKL/0/187f2910/XL/IMG_5325%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-XhzBvKL/A)
Then brought the disc to final thickness.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-JXsVB4c/0/50f54bfb/XL/IMG_5326%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-JXsVB4c/A)
Got a lovely finish on it, and the thickness within .001" of dimension from the print. Great!
Proceeded to turn down the face some more to make the step, and that was going well, or so I thought, when suddenly my thickness measurements started moving around back and forth.........
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-hWWf6jk/0/09db0b44/XL/IMG_5329%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-hWWf6jk/A)
Blast, and quite a lot of other words.
I don't really know how this happened. The part never grabbed, I was taking nice light cuts, everything seemed to be fine.
On top of that, I discovered while making this that there is still something wrong in the carriage of my lathe. The handwheel drive is not at all repeatable - go to move the carriage .020" - it moves .01 and change. Move it back down the bed and bring it back to zero, it ends up going past zero by .02" or more. So a key or a pin has broken in some gear or other in the saddle. I'll take that apart again before attempting to remake this.
At least organizing that area of the shop went well, and the cross slide adjustments worked well.
I'm not giving up. I'm going to finish this engine, and if I have to remake parts along the way, so be it.
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Well, after having had a big slice of humble PIE!, I called the nice folks at PM Research, and have ordered a new cylinder and a new inboard head casting. I think I am going to continue with the cylinder as is so far, because it can be made to work, and then with more hours and experience under my belt later on I'll make the new one to replace it. For the inboard head I may make one out of brass stock in the meantime, see where I went wrong on that.
I ordered an engine #5 at the same time as ordering the new parts. Looks like a nice engine from a couple of threads here, so will be another fun project.
I am not going to put this engine aside though. I'm going to keep on it. I may not be doing very well so far, but I put that down to inexperience. I've had my shop and tools for quite a while, but don't have many actual hands on hours on them. Now that motorcycling is not my main pass time, and I'm selling off all my bikes and replacing them with tools, this hobby is becoming my number 1, and so with more hands on time will come better results. If I don't get things right first time, then I'll do them again. As long as my working practices are safe, and I'm not catapulting chuck keys across the shop then I'm happy.
Oh, and I have to fix the drive system in the lathe apron. That job is up first.
Carry on.
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Well, after having had a big slice of humble PIE!, I called the nice folks at PM Research, and have ordered a new cylinder and a new inboard head casting. I think I am going to continue with the cylinder as is so far, because it can be made to work, and then with more hours and experience under my belt later on I'll make the new one to replace it. For the inboard head I may make one out of brass stock in the meantime, see where I went wrong on that.
I ordered an engine #5 at the same time as ordering the new parts. Looks like a nice engine from a couple of threads here, so will be another fun project.
I am not going to put this engine aside though. I'm going to keep on it. I may not be doing very well so far, but I put that down to inexperience. I've had my shop and tools for quite a while, but don't have many actual hands on hours on them. Now that motorcycling is not my main pass time, and I'm selling off all my bikes and replacing them with tools, this hobby is becoming my number 1, and so with more hands on time will come better results. If I don't get things right first time, then I'll do them again. As long as my working practices are safe, and I'm not catapulting chuck keys across the shop then I'm happy.
Oh, and I have to fix the drive system in the lathe apron. That job is up first.
Carry on.
Stuart............that's a bummer about the cylinder and head castings................but you have a great attitude! :ThumbsUp: It does help having replacement castings available. I know that it's lowered my stress level on my PMR #5 build.
It's really frustrating to have accuracy problems with one's equipment.............I hope your able to get that sorted out.
Glad to hear you ordered the PMR #5. I've been enjoying my build. It'll be nice having company.
Jim
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That's why I went with PMR kits as my first casting builds. Good availability of parts makes for a little reassurance.
I'll get the lathe fixed - I bet it's damaged keyway slot or something simple like that. I already checked with Grizzly, and any of the parts that I think might be damaged are in stock there, so after I pull it apart and find the issue, it shouldn't take long to get back up to snuff. It's all part of the experience.
Actually very much looking forward to making PMR #5 - I've been enjoying your thread. I might make it in parallel with #1 - see which one pops out first. :D
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Very nice work and photos Stuart........ :ThumbsUp:
:cheers:
Don
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Thanks Don, I appreciate you looking in. A bit of drama on this one, but all part of the fun and learning.
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That's why I went with PMR kits as my first casting builds. Good availability of parts makes for a little reassurance.
I have the kit for a PMR #6 waiting in the wings. I'm still not at the point where I'm brave enough to touch it...
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I have the kit for a PMR #6 waiting in the wings. I'm still not at the point where I'm brave enough to touch it...
Lovely! From what I've seen you shouldn't have any fear making an attempt on that engine. I have a PMR #4 waiting - I got very enthusiastic a while back. Now I've learned that I need to learn more before I start that one. :embarassed:
Even so, after this engine and the #5, I intend to just get on with it! >:D
Maybe we'll run those builds in parallel with each other some day. Could be fun.
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Well, for the sake of the blow by blow account of live and up to the minute excitement, I received replacement castings yesterday.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-hXXpKqf/0/49b2af6e/XL/IMG_5331%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-hXXpKqf/A)
Although I'm going to keep going with the current cylinder for now. It will work, but I'll have to rotate the outboard cylinder head to get the tapped holes to not interfere with one set of port holes. That will not look very good on the finished engine, but right now I want to keep going, make some progress, learn some more. I'll re make the cylinder later on.
Engine #5 also arrived, which looks like a delightful engine. In some ways I wish I had picked this one as my first casting attempt, but this is where we are. I'm not backing out now.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-NhSMQ7f/0/74522a80/XL/IMG_5330%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-NhSMQ7f/A)
Anyway, today's first job will be to dismantle the apron on my lathe and find out what's going on with the drive system. That will dictate what progress gets made on engines this weekend.
Riveting stuff I know.
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:pinkelephant:
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:ROFL:
Anyway, lathe is fixt. Found a sheared pin in one of the drive shafts. :Mad:
Easy enough to fix, so that's something. And I have very quickly turned a piece of aluminium to replace the inboard head (not going to use the replacement casting just yet........). Will finish this after a bit of lunch.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-bdw58SW/0/727236a0/XL/IMG_5346%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-bdw58SW/A)
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OK, well, got it up on the mill and put the bolt circle in.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-v2m85ZM/0/b034d6de/XL/IMG_5350%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-v2m85ZM/A)
First time I have aligned using the conical center finder, and it really works well, just using your fingers to feel the alignment. A quick check with a micrometer in two directions verifies location. You all know this of course.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-fwBQRnW/0/8cae07b2/XL/IMG_5351%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-fwBQRnW/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-bQcv3bD/0/a5cf3c03/XL/IMG_5352%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-bQcv3bD/A)
The bolt hole pattern aligns very well indeed with the one I put in the outboard cylinder head, which pleased me to no end. Good test of repeatability of the rotary table and mill set up.
Then machined the snout to size. Parting off was a gentle and slowly slowly approach.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-WVQt9DG/0/ee1a23eb/XL/IMG_5355%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-WVQt9DG/A)
Then cleaned up and brought to size with a knife tool.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-GTQ93z2/0/3a2bad7e/XL/IMG_5356%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-GTQ93z2/A)
Turned the part around, and brought the part to final thickness.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-6tq8dNR/0/f6d908a5/XL/IMG_5357%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-6tq8dNR/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-F8gHGqM/0/38c67d35/XL/IMG_5358%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-F8gHGqM/A)
Pretty happy with the final finish on that.
One last step to do, which is machine a step on that face. Hopefully get to that tomorrow.
Much better progress today. I’m sorry my posts aren’t a bit more interesting, but I'm working at the very basic end of the spectrum of model engineering, in terms of knowledge, experience and skill, but I'm having a good time, and even having some success - if not very consistent success, so I think that counts for something. Still going to make this engine run. Although that day seems a long way off yet. ;D
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No need to apologize for your posts Stuart, you're doing a fine job here. I admire your "stick-to-it-ness", & you're not afraid to just jump in & take things apart to fix it or improve things. Great job on the lathe repair, good thing you caught it before part of the broken pin got mashed in a gear..
Keep at it!
John
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Thanks John, I appreciate the encouragement. There are so many really nice engines on here sometimes I wonder about even posting, but I'm always on the lookout for feedback for alternative approaches or better set ups.
Anyway, a bit more today. I made a simple collet to hold the snout of the spacer.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-NGQ7TcF/0/514ab4b9/XL/IMG_5360%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-NGQ7TcF/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-fqTnHmk/0/a79e184f/XL/IMG_5362%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-fqTnHmk/A)
I could only take light cuts, but this worked, and the part was finished.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-HmRzR2Z/0/16b1b620/XL/IMG_5363%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-HmRzR2Z/A)
I have been wondering about getting hold of a 3" chuck, which I could then hold in this chuck (a 6"), just to make it easier to hold smaller parts. I don't know if that's a good idea or not.
Anyhow, then I went back to my cylinder. I made a mandrel to hold it, and set up on rotary table in the mill. Here I'm squaring the steam chest, to get the bolt pattern properly aligned.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Vf6RDtJ/0/5e8e15d0/XL/IMG_5370%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Vf6RDtJ/A)
I did have to mill chunks out of my "nut" to allow clearance for my center drill, but I knew I was going to have to do that, in order to maintain some overlap and clamp the cylinder well.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-sKpnZDR/0/d946cdcd/XL/IMG_5371%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-sKpnZDR/A)
I tapped the holes by hand, but using the mill to keep the tap square. I can disengage all the gears so that I can turn the chuck easily by hand.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-HTDbG4D/0/16891877/XL/IMG_5372%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-HTDbG4D/A)
Family shot, such as it is. 3 parts and a red headed step child. ;D The bronze part that was ruined will go on the shelf marked "sacrifices to the god of machining".
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-4HtNbVd/0/e631fe28/XL/IMG_5375%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-4HtNbVd/A)
And the cylinder head even fits.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-zbLcWnM/0/41dfa551/XL/IMG_5376%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-zbLcWnM/A)
I actually managed to get the holes for the outboard end lined up correctly. I thought I would have to skew them because of the poorly positioned steam ports this end.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-d2FchSS/0/74f60e60/XL/IMG_5377%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-d2FchSS/A)
It even fits the other end (although it doesn't go there). Just checking hole positions.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Kvmwd7D/0/4737b848/XL/IMG_5379%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Kvmwd7D/A)
Well, that was good. Just got to tap the gland mounting holes and steam chest cover holes and the cylinder is complete. Now to decide which part to make next.
It seems like I only went to the shed 5 minutes ago, but 2 days seem to have slipped past. :shrug:
It does take me a long time to make parts, but there’s a lot of other things going on as well.
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Hi Stuart,
Please keep posting, we are not all experts, and all trying to learn as we go. And there is much to learn from your struggles and persistence. You seem to be ending up with nice looking parts.
The experts cannot tell us what we are doing wrong, or perhaps better expressed as better ways of doing it, if we don’t let them see what we are doing. And it helps confidence if we find we are doing things well.
Regarding the chuck, as I understand it, it is quite difficult to remove a piece from a three jaw and put it back the other way around, or even the same way, for further operations. My three jaw is a 6 inch one and it holds round sections and hex bar down a little below 6 mm. So I machine one end, and if I have to turn the part around, I aim to have one of the machined surfaces an even dimension to fit one of my collets. That gives much better centering, adequate for most purposes, though I am told still not perfect. And a good set of collets is very good for holding and making small round parts, though I believe other shapes can be obtained.
That said, I can see the power of using a smaller chuck as you suggest especially if it is suited to mounting on a rotary table.
I will be interested to hear what you and others think about collets as perhaps an earlier purchase than a smaller three jaw chuck.
MJM460
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I think you're spot on on all that. On reflection, I don't think clamping a smaller chuck in the bigger chuck really gains much. I do have a collet chuck for my lathe, but last time I used it I was extremely disappointed to see a visible amount of runout. I have since then trued it up - it has 4 adjustment screws to allow you to tweak run out against the back plate once installed, and I got the runout down to 0.0005" (approx) - as nearas I could measure it. Under 0.001" anyway, which I understand is normal for this kind of chuck. I trued it up once before though, and it went out of adjustment, so I will be interested to see if it stays true when I put it back on. Could it be that my threaded lathe spindle has some inherent inaccuracy that means I have to re true the collet chuck every time I install it?
I must investigate this and figure it out, because I really like the small form factor and superior chucking of the collets over a 3 jaw. This again is part of learning about set ups and machine capabilities. I often hear or read that a certain approach is preferred, but there is rarely discussion behind it about why, or about some finer details involved. So I just try things and see what happens, and adjust after that.
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MJM, I did some investigation of my collet chuck tonight - this time when I mounted it on the spindle of the lathe it seems to have stayed true, which pleases me greatly. I took the opportunity to do some test machining just to test some set ups and surface finishes. Those I have detailed in my workshop log, just because I like to jump around all over the place on the internet.
As the engine goes, I didn't do too much, but did mull over the drawings, and did a test set up of the valve.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-NDZvNf2/0/5fcf48b9/XL/IMG_5386%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-NDZvNf2/A)
This seems solid, so I think this will be the next part made. Maybe get some time on it tomorrow evening.
And then I went rummaging around through the bits of material I have picked up from various shop throwouts over the years, and found this piece of 2" dia steel.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-nHLDPjV/0/bc1bf039/XL/IMG_5387%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-nHLDPjV/A)
I don't know what alloy yellow is, but will see if I can figure it out. Do all metal stockists use the same identification colours, or is it stockist specific? Chances are this came from McMaster Carr, so I may be able to identify it. Failing that I'l just take a cut on it and see what happens. This is destined to become the crankshaft turning fixture.
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Well, I looked at a few metal suppliers and they seem to use the same codes, which makes this a piece of 1045.
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Tonight:
Sawing a 2" dia lump of what might possibly be 1045 steel, for use later on in the week.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-zF7nZ8x/0/1aafdedd/XL/IMG_5388%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-zF7nZ8x/A)
Test cuts on a different piece of steel to achieve a reasonable finish on low carbon steel. This is 1018 steel as far as I can tell, because I've checked my records and I have never purchased 12L14 in 1/2" diameter, only 1018.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-rzfxLXP/0/91429256/XL/IMG_5389%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-rzfxLXP/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-xpbnf24/0/82e30a4a/XL/IMG_5390%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-xpbnf24/A)
So I'm pleased with this little victory. Declaring this approach successful. Now to stop messing about with tests and make some actual parts.
And lastly.........
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-8Wx8xpH/0/74cb8c36/XL/IMG_5391%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-8Wx8xpH/A)
Milling a flat on the steam valve. Finish looks horrible here, but it didn't feel as bad as this looks. Maybe I should up the speed some next time. Never mind.
This going down to the shed of a winters evening for an hour or two here and there is brilliant. I haven't been able to do it in ages, good to sneak some mid week time in now and again, even if it's just getting things prepped for longer sessions.
:ThumbsUp:
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Stuart,
That is a way better finish on 1018 than I ever seem to get! Did you do any cleaning up with files or sandpaper there? Or was that the cut itself? I'd say that's quite good if so.
Kim
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Thanks Kim, this was as cut - no post machine finishing.
It was SLOOOOOOOOOOOOW though. 50 rpm, lowest feed rate I have (have to look up the number), full flood coolant, and a brand new cutting tool, nice and sharp with a small nose radius, HSS tool. It's a purchased AR Warner cutting tool, rather than one of my hand made hacks, so the geometry was correct, and surface finish of the cutting edge was excellent, which I understand all add up on this kind of material. Depth of cut was something like 0.005" to 0.01".
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It's surprising what tricks the light plays on multiple cuts with an end mill on a surface like your Steam Valve. Like you say, looks horrible, but feels perfectly flat. I typically use a fly cutter on a surface like this to avoid this optical phenomena.
Jim
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Absolutely agree Jim. Have not used my flycutter yet, so that will be one of the next things to test. I'm thinking of using it to flatten an aluminum plate for fixturing the chassis casting, so that will be a good intro to using it.
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Milled out the pocket anyway. Got the size of the cutout within 0.005" on all sides, within 0.002" on depth and centered on the part within .002" each direction. Always good to see how close you hit the mark.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-bWKgXnQ/0/0638fac3/XL/IMG_5392%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-bWKgXnQ/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-2qTvT48/0/b10102fc/XL/IMG_5394%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-2qTvT48/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-jjFfV2S/0/87844a2a/XL/IMG_5395%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-jjFfV2S/A)
Thinking I'll polish up the main face on a surface plate before it goes in to service.
Then had a try at some flycutting. I have a piece of aluminum plate that I want to use for holding the chassis casting. I started sanding it flat a while ago, but it quickly became apparent that it was going to need a fair bit of material removal. So, I ground a tool according to the geometry I found on Toms Techniques website, and had a try.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-X225Xvg/0/a401a9ca/XL/IMG_5397%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-X225Xvg/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-G3q3Gkw/0/a0138eb7/XL/IMG_5399%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-G3q3Gkw/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-W6Tn5qr/0/d5d83da7/XL/IMG_5401%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-W6Tn5qr/A)
I don't know much about interpreting the cross hatch pattern, but I think this is not too bad. The casting no longer rocks on the plate, although I still have a bit more clean up to do on the underside of the casting to get it set down all around, but progress made anyway. Only problem being the cross feed motor died shortly after I started, which is a bit vexing, so I had to hand feed everything. Probably just a contact brush issue I think.
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The flycutting looks great to me. I would be one happy fellow to achieve that.
I'll be interested to see what others say.
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Thanks Zee, I'll be interested in feedback too. I did shim and tram my mill column in last year, so I was pleased to see cross hatching. I should check tram again and see how it looks lately. Job for tomorrow night maybe, although looking at these, not too much to worry about?
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Like Zee...........the cross hatching looks good to me. A fly cutter is really handy to have for situations like this.
Jim
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It certainly is, made quick work of this. Really throws the chips around, too!
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I will be interested to hear what you and others think about collets as perhaps an earlier purchase than a smaller three jaw chuck.
MJM460
I have found my ER32 collets and collet chuck to be excellent for keeping things running true.
Nice work on the cylinder Stuart.
gary
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I made a start on the crankshaft tonight for no particular reason. It's just what I felt like working on.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-kwrH9kL/0/3bc1579b/XL/IMG_5412%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-kwrH9kL/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-j9dW6ns/0/80fab6d8/XL/IMG_5413%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-j9dW6ns/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-4xc5JsF/0/c95ce1fe/XL/IMG_5415%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-4xc5JsF/A)
Not sure I'm entirely happy with that set up, so I'll look at that again before any more turning. Probably put on a cutting tool with a smaller radius for a start.
Also tonight, a little more flycutting to level out both sides of my jig plate.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-w6X3fTN/0/e37f4112/XL/IMG_5416%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-w6X3fTN/A)
My cross feed drive broke down, and is under investigation. I can probably repair it - better that than $450 for a new one.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-fFJB7sp/0/a6e8c419/XL/IMG_5417%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-fFJB7sp/A)
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Bummer about your cross feed drive Prop. :(
Please elaborate on your misgivings about your set up for turning your Crankshaft. I'm getting closer to turning the crank on my PMR #5 project and was thinking along the lines of what you're doing. :thinking:
Jim
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Slightly annoying about the cross feed for sure, but I'll figure it out. Not the end of the world - a bit of research shows that these units are prone to failure, especially around the speed control potentiometer. Maybe I can make it an engineering opportunity and change things to be more robust. Could be fun. Or - maybe I'll buy the cheap one I found on ebay. :D
As for my misgivings, I feel better about them this morning. I have never set up my lathe tool in this way before, so I think I was just questioning my approach to be sure about it. It keeps the toolpost well clear of the chuck and part, and gives me access all round, so I think that makes it a win. I will change over to a sharper insert though (I mean smaller tip radius).
My plan is to turn the crankshaft around, clean up the other half, and then mount the shaft between centers to turn both halves of the shaft to size. That is what the drawings suggest, and it sounds like a decent approach, so I'll try it.
I have heard that the crankshaft can go out of true when removing the center support web, so I'm actually giving thought to taking that out before doing any more turning. Might have to make support clamps for the center journal maybe?
Just musing out loud (via the keyboard) now.
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Milled out the pocket anyway. Got the size of the cutout within 0.005" on all sides, within 0.002" on depth and centered on the part within .002" each direction. Always good to see how close you hit the mark.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-bWKgXnQ/0/0638fac3/XL/IMG_5392%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-bWKgXnQ/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-2qTvT48/0/b10102fc/XL/IMG_5394%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-2qTvT48/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam- Engines/PM-Research-1/i-jjFfV2S/0/87844a2a/XL/IMG_5395%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-jjFfV2S/A).
That finish looks like end grain growth rings on wood as if it was cast from a patern using end grain wood ??!!! good work...
Thinking I'll polish up the main face on a surface plate before it goes in to service.
Then had a try at some flycutting. I have a piece of aluminum plate that I want to use for holding the chassis casting. I started sanding it flat a while ago, but it quickly became apparent that it was going to need a fair bit of material removal. So, I ground a tool according to the geometry I found on Toms Techniques website, and had a try.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-X225Xvg/0/a401a9ca/XL/IMG_5397%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-X225Xvg/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-G3q3Gkw/0/a0138eb7/XL/IMG_5399%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-G3q3Gkw/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-W6Tn5qr/0/d5d83da7/XL/IMG_5401%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-W6Tn5qr/A)
I don't know much about interpreting the cross hatch pattern, but I think this is not too bad. The casting no longer rocks on the plate, although I still have a bit more clean up to do on the underside of the casting to get it set down all around, but progress made anyway. Only problem being the cross feed motor died shortly after I started, which is a bit vexing, so I had to hand feed everything. Probably just a contact brush issue I think.
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That finish looks like end grain growth rings on wood as if it was cast from a patern using end grain wood ??!!! good work...
Thanks! Unfortunately those are endmill marks from where I machined it - but the photo does exaggerate them somewhat. Even so, I'll want to lightly polish those out before putting the part in to service. I think the machined pocket came out reasonably well though.
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I like to give those surfaces a polish with a diamond coated steel lapping plate with oil, followed by finer grits of diamond paste - flattens out any tool marks and gives a nice tight seal. Just moving it back and forth by hand, pressing down on the center is all it takes.
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Excellent yes, thank you. I was thinking fine grit emery, but what you describe will be a much better finish for sure.
More tinkerings. Replacement cross feed drive came today. It's wired incorrectly, such that it works in reverse. Will open it up and sort that at some point. Not a big deal, plus it was CHEEEEEP.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-zDQJTkZ/0/20f99a8f/XL/IMG_5418%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-zDQJTkZ/A)
More importantly, I flattened the underside of the base casting. Levelled it first longitudinally along the regions I had given a light sanding on the surface plate. Crosswise it was about 0.007" off, which I figured was not enough to worry about, and in any cae with this set up I'm levelling the base relative to the (admittedly unfinished) slide rails. Seems like as good an approach as any.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-z5RdSPJ/0/0664c8a4/XL/IMG_5419%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-z5RdSPJ/A)
Took off about 15 thou.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-pp55ZmT/0/590ece7c/XL/IMG_5420%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-pp55ZmT/A)
Still a couple of rough spots, but I don't think it's essential to take those out, I just want a good level surface around the whole perimeter.
Then set it up on my flattened aluminium fixture plate. Set it up so that it was as square as possible to the aluminium plate, using the slide rails and cylinder mounting face as references, as best as possible since they are not machined. Essentially "averaged" the position between the 3 surfaces, which should work well when I start cleaning material.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-FqzF775/0/677d6031/XL/IMG_5421%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-FqzF775/A)
Yes, I did support under the extremes of the casting.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-hKJhjhV/0/4a85e9d9/XL/IMG_5422%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-hKJhjhV/A)
Then went around and drilled through the bosses, lightly spotting in to the plate below. Then removed the casting, tap drilled the plate, and tapped the holes to 4-40 thread.
Hey presto, base casting now on a holding plate and ready for machining.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-ZmXrTmL/0/8ffd11d0/XL/IMG_5423%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-ZmXrTmL/A)
I need to take a file to some of the flash first, but then I will look at setting up to machine the datum face where the cylinder mounts, once I have written out my operation sequence.
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I decided to make a start on the base today.
I decided to start with cleaning up the end face. This is the datum surface everything is referenced from. My plan being to get this flat, then put all the holes in it, and use the center hole to locate the height of the slide rails, and also establish the center line for cleaning up the insides of the rails and the inner surfaces of the bearings for the crankshaft.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-JM3TMzD/0/d248c437/XL/IMG_5446%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-JM3TMzD/A)
Although the drawing calls for spotfacing the end, that seems unnecessarily complicated to achieve - I suppose not much work with a boring head - but just milling it flat over a large enough area is simpler at this stage.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-HPGQZ7t/0/6a609f83/XL/IMG_5425%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-HPGQZ7t/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-XwT5wqQ/0/abe44bbc/XL/IMG_5426%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-XwT5wqQ/A)
Then mounted it upright for the end face. I saw someone else mount one a bit like this, but I was concerned about how the plate would actually hold up. Thought I'd try it though.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-ht5D6nJ/0/cc463148/XL/IMG_5427%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-ht5D6nJ/A)
I did mark up the end as a visual aid. I like to establish points from edges using an edge finder, and then center drill locations, rather than try center punching them. But I thought it might be a good sanity check to have this marked out to refer to.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-XqKDk7C/0/34c4441b/XL/IMG_5428%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-XqKDk7C/A)
Worked out OK. I actually found center by measuring the part, and then using an edge finder, and indexing from there, to keep the center point central, but my back up scribing was reassuring to have.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-tLSZzB8/0/140f05c6/XL/IMG_5430%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-tLSZzB8/A)
However, the plate did start to vibrate, so I decided to remount before going further.
I have this angle plate. I crudely set it up first
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-QnrgGNj/0/7cca5a4f/XL/IMG_5431%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-QnrgGNj/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-pRXFZfQ/0/36ccd0c9/XL/IMG_5432%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-pRXFZfQ/A)
Then secured the fixture plate to the angle plate, and used the actual part face to get everything squared up, level and true.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-L5JTpr2/0/3d939ff5/XL/IMG_5433%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-L5JTpr2/A)
I found center of the part again, using a co-axaial indicator, and then started spotting holes.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-fx936K4/0/1db2535b/XL/IMG_5434%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-fx936K4/A)
I used the geometry approach to establish the coordinates for the bolt circle pattern, which is very simple on a six hole pattern. My little Zeus book has these all predefined for easy reference.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-RfGqn6f/0/d9dfb349/XL/IMG_5436%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-RfGqn6f/A)
Anyway, a bunch of counting of dial turns later, being sure to remember to take up backlash, and there we have it.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-gTLZMgs/0/b74d86d2/XL/IMG_5437%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-gTLZMgs/A)
Test fit:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-dhBnpRV/0/fa007e18/XL/IMG_5441%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-dhBnpRV/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-42DjLdj/0/9851cead/XL/IMG_5442%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-42DjLdj/A)
Which looks OK to me.
Then I spent a little time cleaning up the boss surface.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-JqZ2h2V/0/97d7fcef/XL/IMG_5443%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-JqZ2h2V/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Mmb2RVB/0/c03c995d/XL/IMG_5444%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Mmb2RVB/A)
It seems to take me an exceptionally long time to set jobs up. For instance setting up the angle plate and getting the face of the base casting level and true was about 2 hours. But maybe that's just a matter of practice. At this stage I'm more interested in getting the set up right, than how long it takes to do it. I'm pleased with the last few workshop sessions results.
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Great setup for the casting - well worth the time to get it all trued up. Thats the kind of stuff that practice helps with, after a while you wont notice that you are just setting it up without having to think it all through.
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Thank you for the encouragement, that is appreciated and very well received. I got the fixture plate idea from Bill Lindsey in his PMR #1 build thread, and certainly I have seen others use the concept as well. I must say, it makes handling that casting an absolute breeze. Working on it the last couple of sessions was a real pleasure.
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Well done Stuart. :ThumbsUp: Mounting fixtures really help for cast parts.
I too like to find the center (or work from the edge with an edge finder) instead of transferring holes from one piece to another. More accurate I think.
I need to spend some time with your chart to figure out how to use it to locate holes (other than 2 or four holes). So far, for that many holes, I've been able to mount the part on my RT, locate the center, dial in the radius and rotate for the holes. I don't see how I could of done that with your casting.
Jim
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I agree Jim - it’s very satisfying to make parts to tolerance individually, and for them to then fit together correctly.
On those charts, you can get the same result by doing some simple trigonometry. The chart simply has all the trig distilled into factors that you can then use with the bolt circle to generate the X, Y co ordinates. I think this used to be a very common way of making bolt circles, but rotary tables are so much more readily available that the method isn’t used so much. Good one to have in your back pocket for situations like this though.
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Looking good. One can see the engine beginning to emerge...
:ThumbsUp:
gary
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Thanks Gary, lots to do yet, but I must admit that being able to test fit the cylinder and seeing it in place was a real boost.
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Nicely done. :ThumbsUp:
In the 10th photo...what is that tool holding the center drill? The tool is being held by a collet.
Don't you love that power feed? ;D
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That is an ER11 collet holder. It has a 1/2" shank, and the diameter of the collet nut is not much bigger than that. I got it because it gives me more access to small parts than the standard drill chuck, which often gets in the way of clamps and so on, plus it runs a heck of a lot more concentric than the standard drill chuck. Only issue is I need a few more collet sizes to cover more drill sizes. It's great for some of the small end mills and the center drills etc. But with a few more collet sizes I think this is going to be a very nice tool to have on hand. I bought it from Shars, but I think little machine shop has them, and certainly plenty of ofther tool suppliers have them. Travers for example. Not too expenisve either.
I freely admit that purchasing it was buying my way out of problems when I could likely have applied myself a bit more and found other fixturing means with what I have on hand, but at the same time this is becoming my main hobby now, so selling my bikes and getting a larger variety of tooling is just part of the fun for me. Eventually I'll add a DRO as well for the mill, but I feel I haven't quite "earned" that yet. But I'm getting there. :D
Yep, I sure love the power feed!
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Thanks. What is the collet holding? How is the center drill held?
but I feel I haven't quite "earned" that yet. But I'm getting there. :D
"Earned"? Of course you have.
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Thanks. What is the collet holding? How is the center drill held?
The holder has an internal taper and a threaded nose, and then there is a sprung collet which inserts into that, which is compressed into place by the collet nut. Like all ER series collets, the collet clicks into place in the collet nut, so that it is forced out of the taper when removing the nut. It's exactly the same system as any other ER collet set - or basically any collet style, but is simply a miniature version, capable of holding tools up to 1/4" in diameter.
"Earned"? Of course you have.
Weeeeeeeeeell, I have been diligent on my handle turning, and allowing for backlash, and have made components with bolt patterns that fit together properly without using one part to transfer a bolt pattern to another part, so in a sense yes, I have convinced myself that I do understand how to drive the tool properly. But on the other hand, the DRO set up I really want is about $2K, (there are less expensive ones but this one has some very nice features), and I have to wait until I've sold one of my few remaining motorcycles, or save up for it. :D
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Back in the shed today. I've not been able to get shed time for a couple of weeks, with other things going on, but some of those things were fun too, so it's all good.
I made a pin to fit to the center hole, with the idea of using it to locate the hole and therefore allow me to mill the rails accurately.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-GZpBr9p/0/7384a328/XL/IMG_5449%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-GZpBr9p/A)
Then I started milling the insides of the rails.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-dQ2zPV4/0/0fdb76a4/XL/IMG_5451%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-dQ2zPV4/A)
After an initial cut, I located the center of the hole again, and took a measurement to the top of the casting surface of the rails, to get a feel for how much I was going to need to remove.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Wrbbn9M/0/8b0eef34/XL/IMG_5452%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Wrbbn9M/A)
That technique worked well enough, but in the end I actually touched off the bore of the hole with the height gauge rather than using the pin.
Anyway, cleaned up the rails
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-bXShF39/0/86163557/XL/IMG_5453%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-bXShF39/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-N7Qg94p/0/d6803ab5/XL/IMG_5454%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-N7Qg94p/A)
I made a bit of a meal of this, with multiple set ups I didn't need, if I'd actually thought through it a bit better. I ended up taking the casting out, and turning it sideways to check the inside rail to bore center dimension using my height gauge. I was a bit worried I'd messed up because at this stage the rails were very uneven. However, it turned out I just needed to take more off one rail.
I set it all up again, and finished up.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-DC3ZSck/0/b75c00d9/XL/IMG_5456%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-DC3ZSck/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Z6Kpq5h/0/1fc427f0/XL/IMG_5457%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Z6Kpq5h/A)
Then drilled and tapped the upper rail mounting holes.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-t6LVdHc/0/988f94a0/XL/IMG_5458%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-t6LVdHc/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-wdZrTm9/0/a2e71b16/XL/IMG_5459%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-wdZrTm9/A)
As far as I can tell, I'm within .001" on the width of the rails, with the centerline of the rails maybe within 0.003" of center line of the bore, and height of the rails is within .001" of nominal, so not a bad go at it.
Got to think about how to do the bearing caps and crankshaft bearing holes now, so I may move on to something else tomorrow while I mull that over.
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Looking good. :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
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Great progress and documentation Stuart. :ThumbsUp:
I've been a little sidetracked on my PMR #5 build as well. We've had some nice, almost Spring like, weather here, so got caught up on my Fall yard work and a head start on Spring gardening.
Jim
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Fantastic results! :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Taking shape nicely...
:)
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Great results and great photos!
:popcornsmall:
Don
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Thanks everyone, I do appreciate you looking in. Got a couple of commitments that may keep me from the shop this weekend, but hopefully back to it very soon. This casting has been a fun exercise, pushing me a bit more, and I have really enjoyed it, so very much looking forward to picking it up again.
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Thanks everyone, I do appreciate you looking in. Got a couple of commitments that may keep me from the shop this weekend, but hopefully back to it very soon. This casting has been a fun exercise, pushing me a bit more, and I have really enjoyed it, so very much looking forward to picking it up again.
It'll find you again soon Stuart.
I'm a little sidetracked myself lately. Sold my airplane building project and it left in a truck for Oklahoma yesterday. Now .....I'm looking at the empty space, as well as my Wishlist on a few vendor websites. :whoohoo: Should be fun! :thinking:
Jim
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Wey hey! Sorry to see a project go, but new possibilities abound eh? Good stuff!
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Wey hey! Sorry to see a project go, but new possibilities abound eh? Good stuff!
Yes........it was a good thing. I'm excited by the doors this opens. :) It was a fun project, but time to move on. I'm into smaller projects nowadays.
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Looking forward to seeing your ideas shape up!
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Back in the shed today. I've not been able to get shed time for a couple of weeks, with other things going on, but some of those things were fun too, so it's all good.
Me likewise, and that's a great way to look at it Stuart.
:ThumbsUp:
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Suddenly decided to get back to the engine today. Lots has been going on, but as cold weather approaches, prime shed season is on us. I've decided that having the bearing caps ready when I do the next stage of machining on the base will be a good idea, so I made a start on those. Mostly just cleaning up and squaring up.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-TckDn3T/0/XL/i-TckDn3T-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-TckDn3T/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-396JG38/0/XL/i-396JG38-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-396JG38/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-R3LbJg5/0/XL/i-R3LbJg5-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-R3LbJg5/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-MNQZkjJ/0/XL/i-MNQZkjJ-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-MNQZkjJ/A)
Now I have them set up and ready to receive the bolt holes:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-KGWFfTK/0/XL/i-KGWFfTK-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-KGWFfTK/A)
But those will have to wait until tomorrow, as I have to go and repair the controller to our bathroom heated floor. I'd put that chore off, except that I rather like a warm bathroom floor. No rest for the wicked.
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Good that you are back on it Stuart!
But yes, the other stuff always intercedes, and the shop time flies...
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Thanks Gary, good of you to look in. Shop time really disappears fast, alas.
One problem I have is that I did not machine my base casting in the best sequence, and I'm now scratching my head on how to finish it. This made me put it aside for a while, which turned into a long while. However, I now have a plan, which I am writing out and hope to make a start on tomorrow.
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Watching along, like these engines.... :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Yeah. Machining sequence...
I have a similar issue with the big end of my current build. Lost my datum today and trying to figure how to get it back. Hopefully tomorrow...
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Sometimes it's good to step away for a bit.
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I know I can save it and make it work - I have a back up plan involving marking out, scribing lines and milling down to the marked line, but I'm trying to do things by locating features with a dial indicator and accurately milling to the right position. Anyway - more on that once I have it figured.
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A DRO is the boy for that.
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You have a point - but the principles of locating edges and holes remain the same. My dilemma is machining a surface at 45 degrees to a surface that has a critical hole in, and getting the new surface to intersect the axis of the hole. Figuring out the dimensions on the angled part is a matterof trigonometry - no problem there - but it’s the act of locating the center of a hole at 45 degrees that had me stumped. But I now have a plan, and I think a pin gauge is the answer. May post more later, but it’s nice out, so may take the sidecar outfit out for lunch.
As it happens, I did order a DRO kit yesterday, but not to solve this problem, just to add functionality and so I don’t have to count handle turns any more. :ThumbsUp:
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Understood. Tricky, but it sounds like you have a solution.
Enjoy your outing!
gary
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Got a little drilling done first anyway.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-2Wb4nf3/0/XL/i-2Wb4nf3-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-2Wb4nf3/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-rDscHrT/0/XL/i-rDscHrT-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-rDscHrT/A)
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Very neat.
BTW I appreciate you may have used a DRO before, but if not I think you will love it. It's also worth investing in an electronic edge finder. If you haven't seen them mine is featured on my uniflow thread. It's much easier than peering at a wobbler and it looks pleasingly sci-fi too. :)
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Excellent point Gary! In fact I read your post with extreme interest last night - that is a great looking piece of kit, and I enjoyed your description.
In the end I decided to go the "whole hog" on the DRO, and bought a DRO pros EL700 4 axis set up, and also ordered the integrated touch probe.
https://www.dropros.com/DRO_PROS_Touch_Probe.htm
I have heard some mixed reviews on their touch probe as supplied, but apparently if you upgrade it to a steel tip, it is very reliable and accurate. Sure hope so. I sometimes wonder about the wisdom of adding so much instrumentation to a basic mill like this - it's more than half the cost of the machine. But I think it will add a lot too. Hoping I won't ever need another machine tool - although if a good Bridgeport comes along, then that could change I suppose - although I really don't need that much mill. I haven't come close to using up all the table on mine - except when I had 3 different set ups mounted on it, and that was great. Vise in the middle, rotary table on the left, angle plate on the right. Magic, our Morris.
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Stuart -
I suspect that you will not regret your purchase. You will be enjoying your setup long after you have forgotten about the spend. A DRO makes life a lot easier. The touch probe looks much more delicate than my electronic edge finder and so may be more sensitive. And your mill is decent so it's worth upgrading while you wait for the Bridgeport of your dreams to come along. Which will also need upgrading... ;)
I too quite like to keep a vice and a rotary table as semi-permanent fixtures on the mill. Saves a lot of chopping and changing, that being probably the most time-consuming part of what we do.
For me, though, mill size isn't so much about table space as it is about spindle nose to table distance. That's the one that usually leaves me scratching my head for alternative solutions...
Cheers,
gary
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Well I'm loving the new mill upgrade, and I'm glad I made myself finish that before proceeding with the engine. It has made today's progress a lot more enjoyable.
I decided to add the stepped feature to the bearing caps. Not really necessary, and most builds I have read leave this out, but I figured why not give it a try?
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-PcxX84W/0/63264597/XL/IMG_5757%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-PcxX84W/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-MtV3wKf/0/a4feacc0/XL/IMG_5758%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-MtV3wKf/A)
Then I moved on to machining the bearing area on the base casting. I have been having trouble getting my head around how to locate the surface of the bearing area when at an angle. I couldn't figure out how to locate it relative to the center of the bore in the cylinder mounting. But then when I was at work I saw one of our machinists setting up an extremely complex item, and he was showing me how to use gauge blocks and pins to set up different features. Armed with this fresh insight, I was ready to have a crack at this base casting again.
I set up my angle block, getting it mostly square to the machine using a 2-4-6 block in my vise, which I had already trued up. I used the dial gauge to verify squareness of the angle block.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-WMhsr7X/0/d2ed6997/XL/IMG_5761%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-WMhsr7X/A)
....and checked angle using this caliper. This was a gift from a small business I helped out with some design work. It's a handy tool, but not sure I'd splurge on it normally.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-zdt4kQz/0/82598f7b/XL/IMG_5762%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-zdt4kQz/A)
Before setting up the base casting, I used a pin gauge to verify the bore diameter in the end of the casting, and then used the pin gauge to measure height of the rail surfaces relative to the bore.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-CszZSxh/0/c11a70b6/XL/IMG_5763%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-CszZSxh/A)
I didn't take a picture, but I did the same thing to establish the center of the bore relative to the guide rail edges.
Then I moved it to the mill and finished the set up - I clamped it to the angle plate and then clocked it to verify squareness again.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-f88BZh4/0/6802739f/XL/IMG_5764%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-f88BZh4/A)
In this next picture, you can see a gauge block and a pin gauge in place against the machined surface where the guide gland goes. Using this, I was able to touch off against the top of the pin gauge, and establish a height to the top of the bearing surfaces. I could also calculate the position of the center of the crankshaft. Easy as it turns out - just some trigonometry. In the picture you can see a spot face and center mark I made some months ago, when I was trying to figure out how to do this. I made the center mark as a visual aid.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-hTsKqGH/0/65514344/XL/IMG_5765%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-hTsKqGH/A)
Anyway - decided to have the courage of my convictions and went for it.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-WFcQpNq/0/0fcb9179/XL/IMG_5769%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-WFcQpNq/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-4KdVrWf/0/4c787f94/XL/IMG_5772%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-4KdVrWf/A)
The bearing caps fit reasonably well.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-kGCxP3C/0/7003f42b/XL/IMG_5773%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-kGCxP3C/A)
One thing to notice is that because of an earlier error when machining the face where the cylinder mounts, the bearing caps are not perfectly located. I did not properly interpret the intent of the design and did not locate the mounting face of the cylinder correctly relative to the datum on the print. As a result I have had to machine more away from the bearings on the base casting than is ideal. I knew this was going to be the case, at this point I am continuing on, correcting things as I go, with a lesson learned. This should still work - it will always look a bit odd, but it's only my third engine, and 1st casting set. There are bound to be learning opportunities along the way. The next one will be better, for now forge ahead.
I'm pretty happy with how the bearing caps fit anyway.
I clamped the caps in place one at a time, and spot faced through the bolt holes, before drilling a tap hole for the screws, and tapping the threads.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-88kwcqF/0/8ab5044b/XL/IMG_5775%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-88kwcqF/A)
Then screwed the caps in place.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-drLwLDb/0/138d0ac0/XL/IMG_5777%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-drLwLDb/A)
After that, I cleaned up the outside and inside faces.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-scHcXhM/0/cc3a6900/XL/IMG_5779%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-scHcXhM/A)
Normally the clean up would be done after bolting the part flat to the table - but I decided this was as valid a method as any, and looks a little "different". Odd? I don't know - put my own slant on it. Slant. Get it?
Anyway, I also dusted off the front edges of the caps to make them match up to the base casting a little better.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-K3J5Dxf/0/f88af5b5/XL/IMG_5780%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-K3J5Dxf/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-dNPV8kV/0/2a878c23/XL/IMG_5782%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-dNPV8kV/A)
After that, I removed the part from the angle plate, and decided this was good a time as any to spot and drill the bearing caps for the oilers.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-XgmdJLp/0/6414f86b/XL/IMG_5785%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-XgmdJLp/A)
This is where it sits now. It is FAR from perfect. It can, at best, be described as adequate, but while that is true, there are a lot of successes on this part, in terms of setting up square and true, and learning how to indicate off available surfaces to establish geometries. I am actually very pleased. I was at least savvy enough to not just press ahead assuming everything was right, but measured the part to find out where I was at - as such I think I can recover it and make a working engine.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-bj3QPQ4/0/b8ebeb0d/XL/IMG_5787%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-bj3QPQ4/A)
The two slide rails for example, are off center. But I now have the option to machine the wider one to match the narrow one, and get them both centered. Alternatively I'll machine the guide to suit. Once in place the difference in rails will not be obvious. So I need to give that some thought. Either approach means making mating parts fit what I have, and not achieving parts that are "made to print", which is a goal of mine - but I'm making progress, and enjoying myself. Therefore, I deem it a success, at least on some level.
Next - get the casting set up and drill and ream the bore for the crank shaft.
:ThumbsUp:
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Very interesting measuring techniques and setups, at least to a neophyte like me.
I like your undaunted spirit and willingness to accommodate imperfections, keeping the momentum of the project while learning and looking forward to the next build being better.
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Thanks Gary. I'm just trying to make use of what I see others do - it has been humbling at times, along the way, but a certain amount of dogged sheer bloody mindedness sometimes gets you through. It's easy to become discouraged - after all these parts I have made are not "right", but hopefully I am improving along the way, so subsequent engines will get better and better. That's the idea anyway. :D
Case in point, I went ahead and drilled and reamed the bore for the crankshaft.
It's close, but there's a mismatch somewhere. Need to evaluate my techniques more. But in the meantime I'll soldier on.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-FWWtfPr/0/49875480/XL/IMG_5789%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-FWWtfPr/A)
You can see how the nearside is mostly aligned, but the far side interior surface looks off - result of that error made much earlier on that I mentioned.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-fFMfhzp/0/d6de8c9e/XL/IMG_5790%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-fFMfhzp/A)
And sure enough, once the bearing cap is removed, the hole is way off center relative to the locating steps, and indeed a little off height wise, but not by much.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-GcbmdZ7/0/346b0c38/XL/IMG_5791%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-GcbmdZ7/A)
I think it will run. I did not seem to get any "wandering drill" when I drilled all the way through the second side - I drilled the hole out in steps, leaving some stock to clean out with the reamer. So I am confident that the bore is centered height wise to the rails. I will measure that and check.
However, going to call this "acceptable (just)" and keep going. Not sure what to do next - maybe a few of the simpler components, like upper slide rails and spacers.
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I think I either measured the rails position incorrectly, or established my zero for this op incorrectly. My bet is on a measurement error. You live and learn. Onwards and upwards. You’ve only got to be a few thou off for things to look very noticeable. I think my gauge block and gauge pin approach basically worked.
If my angle plate was off, that could throw things off position - maybe that’s the culprit.
Ruminating on it more, I am most suspicious of that angle plate, and possibly the way I set height of the milling cutter against the gauge pin.
It is all anout the set ups!
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Hi Propforward, as another working on castings for the first time, I can empathise with all those problems.
You are certainly making great progress. Those components do not look easy to hold, but are coming out well.
Measurement, like so many things, is simple in principle, but as I try and achieve more accurate, I find it more and more difficult to actually do. It takes lots of practice. I never cease to admire the work of those who seem regularly to achieve 0.0001”. About 0.001”, or even 0.01 mm is about my limit at the moment and that is only achieved occasionally. Drilling a hole is easy, getting it in the right place is quite difficult.
MJM460
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Hi MJM, thanks for looking in. I concur with your sentiments! There are those that make this look very easy, but the level of attention to detail needed makes it anything but. That's why I like this hobby - it's a real challenge. Although I haven't done (in all honesty) a very good job on this engine so far, it is still immensely satisfying. I read everyones threads and pick up tips wherever I can. The posts I like most are those that really detail the set up aand measurement arrangements. Great to have access to a forum like this.
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One habit I need to develop more is spotting locations and checking, before forging ahead.
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I checked the crankshaft bores with a gauge pin today. It's .002 oversize, which surprises me a bit given that the hole was reamed, and in a single set up without ever moving the table. Still, that's OK, I will make the crankshaft to suit.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-5jxv2Nz/0/88e74cdb/XL/IMG_5792%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-5jxv2Nz/A)
The bore may not be as far off center as I had thought. Looking at it here with the gauge pin in place, the center of the pin seems to fall pretty close to the split line at the bottom of the bearing cap locating slot. I didn't need to chamfer the edges or anything to get the pin in - it popped right in from the top, so I think I'm not as far off as I thought. The only mystery is the difference in width of the locating slots. Maybe I'll just pretend that's an orientation feature.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-xD9GfSJ/0/e5f63a9f/XL/IMG_5795%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-xD9GfSJ/A)
Anyway, time to move on. Tomorrow............not sure, but I'm thinking the cross slide rails and guide.
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I think what you are looking at is a slight unevenness in the casting. You won’t even notice it when it’s painted. I also wouldn’t worry about the oversized holes. You can get dimensional changes just from the heat generated by the operation. In any case, when you make your crankshaft you are aiming for a running fit so you are going to want 1 to 1.5 thousandths gap between the shaft and the hole to get a good oil film between the parts. In any case you are going about this the right way. I find it easier to make the hole and tailor the shaft to the final size of the hole than doing it the other way around.
My 2 cents
Tony
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Thanks Tony - solid advice, and I appreciate your looking in. Very helpful - that gives me a dimension to shoot for on the crankshaft for a nice runner.
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I should point out that machining the outside surfaces of the base casting by the bearings was not required - only the interior surfaces locate the crankshaft. But I felt like doing it because it blends in the outside edge of the bearing cap to the base. Looks a little neater is all (in my opinion).
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Stuart -
Glad to hear that the hole positions are better than you originally thought.
After all, it's impossible to drill a hole in the right place, because the right place is a specific point, and a point is notional, with no dimensions at all. It therefore doesn't exist, and if it doesn't exist it can't be drilled into, right?
On the other hand, the universe contains an infinite number of wrong places to drill into, so drilling into the wrong place is inevitable. :o
You may not fully agree with this theory, but I have a 'point', yes? ;)
So congratulations on having drilled the holes in wrong places that were so close to the non-existent right places that no-one will ever notice and the running of the engine will not be affected at all. :ThumbsUp:
As for the hole sizes, I am a rank beginner but intuitively I feel that Tony is correct. If it's 2 thou oversize that means a gap of 1 thou all round for the oil film. Would that be more or less what it should be?
As for why the hole is bigger than you expected - could it be because for every reamer size some reamers are slightly over and some slightly under? I recall Jason telling me about this - the different sizes are coded with a letter (which I can't recall at the moment). Could that be the reason?
Anyway, looks like great work to me...
:popcorn:
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Another reason that reamers may cut slightly oversize is taking too large a "bite" and having swarf accumulate in the grooves while the reamer is cutting.
I like to undersize holes to be reamed by about 0.015" and, even then, flood with cutting oil while reaming.
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From Gary:
"On the other hand, the universe contains an infinite number of wrong places to drill into, so drilling into the wrong place is inevitable. :o"
That explains what happens in my shop a lot of the time then. "Everything in our favour is against us" as an old toolroom foreman I knew used to say. :Lol:
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Thanks all! Very much appreciate the insight Gary! I think I shall ponder that over a glass of red this evening. Or a glass of single malt. It is saturday, after all.
Marv, I will be sure to use that approach on my next reamed hole, thank you for the specifics. I think you are right - I did attempt to clear more material on this hole, because previous reamed holes seemed to not take out any material, but I very likely went too far the other way.
Some progress today.
On my base casting, from previous poor measurement attempts, the edges of the rails were not centered, leaving one rail about 0.017 closer to center than the other, although I had hit the nominal rail to rail dimension dead on. After mulling this over for months, I decided I could not stand the asymmetry any more, so I set the part up and dusted off the wider rail.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-ZKVSKDn/0/fa3bc658/XL/IMG_5811%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-ZKVSKDn/A)
This went very well, and now the rails are even about center of the bore in the end of the casting - they are also matched in width.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-TfJtFvB/0/5d4b45fd/XL/IMG_5812%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-TfJtFvB/A)
This means that the mating part will have to be adjusted, but I'm OK with that.
Speaking of the mating part............
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-DbsQtxF/0/1797b1fb/XL/IMG_5813%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-DbsQtxF/A)
I set measured up the casting and discovered it had a good amount of stock all round, and would accommodate the changes in dimension to match my rails (I did that before adjusting the rails), so set about getting some datums.
I set up as level as possible for a first cut - I got a run iut of very roughly 0.005 along the length of the part.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-ZwPrMTm/0/1bac8730/XL/IMG_5814%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-ZwPrMTm/A)
And took off the minimal amount of material possible.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-DZLSq4P/0/a5bbd142/XL/IMG_5815%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-DZLSq4P/A)
Then on to parallels to clean the opposite side.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-rLWCnJp/0/da822694/XL/IMG_5816%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-rLWCnJp/A)
The two faces measured parallel as best as I can figure it, so I then used those surfaces to set up and register to clean the back side.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-zHSLrLR/0/2fe0e6cd/XL/IMG_5817%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-zHSLrLR/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-LcMmHdZ/0/dbb3fa7c/XL/IMG_5818%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-LcMmHdZ/A)
Then it was time to get on to the nitty gritty. I machined the width of the guides and the thickness in two set ups. I set up like this so that I could mill all around the guide tab on one side.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-GxSSt8F/0/8ae52a61/XL/IMG_5819%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-GxSSt8F/A)
The result...........
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-JNBHvBT/0/59b334ff/XL/IMG_5820%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-JNBHvBT/A)
This gave me a solid set of perpendicular surfaces to clamp the part square, and get registration to match the features on the opposite side. Notice how the 1-2-3 blocks are staggered - so that later on I can register off the 1-2-3 block face, and match the upper tab to the lower one.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-P2J2Vjg/0/392722c4/XL/IMG_5821%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-P2J2Vjg/A)
As I machined around and got close to final thickness, I actually mounted a DTI to the quill, and measured the position of the tab face relative to the 1-2-3 block - and hence the lower tab face, so I was able to keep the tabs co planar within about 0.002" as near as I can measure.
I measured the part after machining - pretty much within 0.001 to 0.002 on all dimensions. So I had to do a quick fit check.........
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-VTj28MB/0/33b4f79d/XL/IMG_5822%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-VTj28MB/A)
It's perfect!
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-6bf9Hw5/0/a9af4a65/XL/IMG_5824%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-6bf9Hw5/A)
After so many bungled attempts on previous parts, I was thrilled and overjoyed at how this part has progressed. Everything is square, parallel and true, and it fits into the base casting just so well - it's a real boost. No wiggle or play, and it slides between the rails really well.
So back to the mill, and set up for the tapped hole.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-bjnH2MH/0/f399350b/XL/IMG_5825%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-bjnH2MH/A)
After drilling and tapping that, I popped it back on the bast, along with my temporary aluminum packing, with a drill bit inserted into the tapped hole just to get a feel for alignment with the bore.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-mMFnq2H/0/31fc7ad1/XL/IMG_5827%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-mMFnq2H/A)
I'm very happy with this part - everything went according to plan, no drama, just enjoyable machining. I think this will clean up a treat and look very nice on the finished engine.
Couple of ops left on it - first I need to drill and ream the cross hole, then mill the slot for the connecting rod. But I don't have a 1/4" reamer on hand, so I'm going to wait a bit before finishing this. Should have one this week some time.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-HW5QwnR/0/9df44b6c/X2/IMG_5828%20%28Large%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-HW5QwnR/A)
Anyway, thanks for looking in.
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I may have missed this on an earlier post, but why put the 1-2-3 blocks inside the vise jaws and around the part, rather than clamping directly on the part?
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It just helps me keep the table centered relative to the quill. Frankly, not a very good reason, and not even necessary. It's a habit I got into when I used a 6" vise, which was too big, and required a block against the rear jaw in able to use it at all. On that thing, anything I clamped against the rear jaw could not be brought far enough forward to get under the center of the quill. I don't need to do it any more, this is a 4" vise and a perfect size for this mill. Much better than the rubbish import vise, too.
File under "seemed like a good idea at the time". :embarassed:
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Gotcha - my mill has similar issues, had to offset the plate the vise sits on to center things better. :cheers:
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I handled the awkward spacing on my Kurt by putting a few parallels behind the fixed jaw.
Tony
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Remember folks, if I appear to be a bungling amateur, it's only because I am.
Continuing on - I realized last night that on my cross slide I probably hadn't assessed the center of the rounded boss properly with respect to the other final features on the casting - and sure enough when I did a measurement this morning, when I put the cross hole in at the correct dimension relative to the rear of the casting, it will appear off center relative to the cast feature. Haven't decided how to address it yet - I can actually shorten the casting and skim a little off the rear end, or attempt to re round the casting. Or leave it. It will be functionally fine. Probably I'll skim the rear of the casting.
Based on these experiences, and some excellent set up info on you tube, I have resolved to ask myself a new set of questions when writing out a plan for machining castings, to try and force myself to understand the casting before cutting anything.
Anyway, today I worked on the rail and spacers. I saw a technique using gauge pins to visually center the mill to casting bosses, as part of achieving a pleasing overall look as well as dimensional accuracy, so I tried that. The first rail didn't work out so well, and I altered the technique a bit for the second rail. Which frankly didn't help in the end, so I need to revisit this approach. Before machining, the underside of the rails were cleaned up on my little belt sander. That worked well at least.
EDIT: The following pics don't show every step. I cleaned the undersides of the rails first and got them flat. Then squared the side of the rail to my vise using a machinists square. I was playing with the gauge pin approach in the pictures, but then secured the part with the various clamps before finishing all the locating. Obviously I didn't attempt to drill with just the middle clamp, the parts would have ended up spinning across the shop, probably.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-8FF9CKq/0/caba4c13/XL/IMG_5834%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-8FF9CKq/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-w66mMKc/0/e346cf3a/XL/IMG_5835%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-w66mMKc/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-wQ9DVXb/0/8b7a9fcc/XL/IMG_5837%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-wQ9DVXb/A)
As you can see, I ended up off center one end.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-rqFWdtr/0/e4c0dd48/XL/IMG_5838%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-rqFWdtr/A)
I still ended up off center even after drilling assessing both bosses, and then splitting differences in X and Y location.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-M4zsfMx/0/32386c1b/XL/IMG_5842%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-M4zsfMx/A)
I tried a similar approach for the center hole. The first one didn't work out, but the second was a little closer.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-N6bcDTM/0/a47b0c68/XL/IMG_5850%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-N6bcDTM/A)
Anyway, after all was said and done, and having made some simple spacers, the cross slide does go together and the slider slides without rattling, it actually fits quite well.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Mg8F859/0/201c59fe/XL/IMG_5853%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Mg8F859/A)
So, a few steps forward, a few back, but on average more steps forward than back. It can be frustrating at times, but I think I'll win out in the end.
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So, a few steps forward, a few back, but on average more steps forward than back. It can be frustrating at times, but I think I'll win out in the end.
I can guarantee you that it has been the same way for all the experts here too .... at some point in their life, projects and otherwise .... Just goes to show that you're in good company ;D :cheers: :popcorn:
Per
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Thanks Per!
One thing's for sure, I'm not going to improve by not making parts - so I'll keep making parts!
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It is looking rather nice and there are a few tricky castings but they all add to the fun, in this rather desirable model engine casting set :)
Remember folks, if I appear to be a bungling amateur, it's only because I am.
We all learn by doing. There are few model engines that have been made without their individual identifying features being applied by their makers :-X .
I know there are some people who won't post until they have finished the entire model to make sure no one knows that they too make mistakes in their builds ::)
Jo
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Thanks Jo.
It's never "nice" to show off things that went wrong of course, but I do it so that if anyone sees some obvious error I am making, they can chime in and help guide me to a better way. I've had many hints and tips from this forum, and they are gratefully received, no matter how small they may seem - some good advice in the above posts, for example.
I'm just glad to be off and running and making progress on this engine again. Already have my next engine castings waiting in the wings.
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Thanks for an interesting and very readable account. I've just read through this in the context of a couple of builds of the same engine I've been following on yoochube -
FWIW, I think you're doing great - at least as well as the "pros". It seems there are a few 'gotchas' hidden in the drawings for this engine!
:cheers:
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Thanks Misterg! I am genuinely glad you are enjoying the thread. I have to admit, I really like posting what I’ve done at the end of a session. Kind of rounds it off.
I’m probably following the same youtube channels. I think Joe Pie is an inspiration and knows what he is doing. I wrote to him and said as much.
The other builder - Not so much.
There are some gotchas waiting - but to be fair to PMR, all the info is there on the print. You just have to follow the print. I chose to ignore the dimension start point on the drawing for the base casting - don’t ask me why - and as a result the engine doesn’t look quite right.
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One thing's for sure, I'm not going to improve by not making parts - so I'll keep making parts!
That's a great attitude Stuart!
The engine in progress is starting to look handsome now, with he contrasting metals.
gary
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Thanks Gary!
Haven’t made much progress this week. I’ve been investigating an issue with my mill - which I now think is just caused by using cheap cutters that are now worn. Another problem for the inexperienced machinist is knowing the signs of worn tooling.
Anyway, hopefully get down the shed today and turn some parts. Might just be some of the simpler bar stock parts - but I need those anyway, so all good fun.
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Yes indeed! I have that problem with cutters too... compounded by the fact that different metals have different requirements in terms of sharpness.
So much to learn in this field...!
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Well, got a little shed time in today.
I started the crank shaft quite some time ago. This is as far as I got it.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-3nvQkc8/0/XL/i-3nvQkc8-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-3nvQkc8/A)
I decided at the time that I would be better off making the base first, so that the crankshaft could be turned to fit the bearing journals, and that was a good decision.
I swapped over to my collet chuck to proceed. It bums me out that I have to true up my collet chuck every time I refit it - but I suppose expecting to rely on the large threads on the lathe to accurately locate a chuck in terms of concentricity was naive at best. It actually only takes me about 10 mins to align it now in any case. The collet chuck has a set of 4 adjustment screws for fine tuning.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-QNRrD5t/0/XL/i-QNRrD5t-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-QNRrD5t/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-M4599MZ/0/XL/i-M4599MZ-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-M4599MZ/A)
I can get it set up and running true enough that I can't detect run out on this DTI, and the ER collets are a lot better to work with than the 3 jaw on diameters 1" and down.
So - bit of clean up on the face:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-76STxRd/0/XL/i-76STxRd-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-76STxRd/A)
Drill center hole:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-5DQg6KD/0/XL/i-5DQg6KD-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-5DQg6KD/A)
And clean the diameter.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-R7pNSBB/0/XL/i-R7pNSBB-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-R7pNSBB/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-gZcW7TG/0/XL/i-gZcW7TG-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-gZcW7TG/A)
Then I cleaned up the outer faces of the cranks a bit:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-XCLCmpH/0/XL/i-XCLCmpH-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-XCLCmpH/A)
It is necessary now to turn the larger diameters next to the crank to an exact length, to locate the crank shaft centrally in the base casting. It was at this point I decided that it would really nice to have a fine adjustment carriage stop - or any carriage stop come to that. So I have paused work on the crankshaft to make one.
The plan is to get the larger diameters turned to length using the collet chuck to hold each side, then I will turn the 3/8" diameter shafts to size between centers to get best concentricity.
But first - carriage stop. Different thread. :naughty:
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My ER32 collet holder plugs straight into the Morse taper of the lathe spindle - no chuck/faceplate involved. There's still a little bit of runout but so far liveable with I think. Could be worth considering, but I know... always more tooling to buy...
Nice work on the crankshaft so far.
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Unfortunately, although this lathe does have a morse taper in the spindle, it doesn't readily adapt to any available collet tooling. I do have an adapter, but then I'm starting to stack up tapers, with nothing actually locking them in place, just friction, which makes me uncomfortable. So I went this route. The more I use it, the quicker it is to true up, so while it was frustrating initially, it's not too big of a deal any more, and it's a really solid set up.
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Yeah, I'm sure it will be fine the more you get used to it.
My holder has a drawbar thread in the back end and could be used on a mill of the same taper. So far I have just used a length of threaded bar with a nut and washer at the back end as a 'temporary' solution... :)
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That’s exactly the set up I originally planned! I actually obtained an MT3 quick change collet set up, but no thread in the back. Just as I was starting to conjur some sort of Machiavellian solution, I discovered this rather clunky collet chuck, suitable for mounting to a threaded spindle type back plate, which ended up being the right solution.
Bonus is the MT quick change collet holder fits my tailstock, so I se it there. Win.
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Back to the engine!
My 1/4" reamer arrived, so I decided to finish up the cross slide. Got it all set up, found the edges and positioned the center of the pin. Did a quick visual with a drill blank to make sure it looked centered in the casting boss.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-wDKQ8hD/0/7b64d3c4/XL/IMG_5901%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-wDKQ8hD/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-GZMn4JJ/0/ef228c45/XL/IMG_5902%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-GZMn4JJ/A)
Then spot and drill. I drilled to about .015" undersize, but drilled out half way to that first.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-6K85D7f/0/3b8c6a53/XL/IMG_5903%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-6K85D7f/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-GGNMLqH/0/d6df12e0/XL/IMG_5904%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-GGNMLqH/A)
Then reamed to 1/4"
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-VtDjGHt/0/65f2875c/XL/IMG_5905%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-VtDjGHt/A)
Checked with a pin gauge - got it spot on this time!
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-FhcHCcM/0/4fca2397/XL/IMG_5906%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-FhcHCcM/A)
Then set up and milled the slot.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-K5tbWkg/0/6731be80/XL/IMG_5907%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-K5tbWkg/A)
Finding hole center by using pin gauge and a feeler gauge.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-VfZpDTb/0/5dea12ad/XL/IMG_5908%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-VfZpDTb/A)
I plunged the slot to get most of the material out.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-KNxFztG/0/87ad088c/XL/IMG_5909%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-KNxFztG/A)
Then cleaned up the sides and bottom of the slot. The end mill was just long enough. Worked well though.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-7ZJKSG5/0/78b2ceeb/XL/IMG_5910%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-7ZJKSG5/A)
Finished!
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-FgTG42g/0/48014ec4/XL/IMG_5911%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-FgTG42g/A)
And it even fits and slides easily up and down the rails. Will wonders never cease?
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-WjMJJ3w/0/6751b248/XL/IMG_5912%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-WjMJJ3w/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-QrVcPCM/1/ff326c50/X2/IMG_5914%20%28Large%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-QrVcPCM/A)
Decided to finish off the valve. I had faced and pocketed this some time ago, but was not happy with the amount of error I was getting milling depths. I now have that resolved, and so......
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-kMHKZtX/0/e24863e0/XL/IMG_5915%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-kMHKZtX/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-HkXRhw7/0/c58f5ce4/XL/IMG_5916%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-HkXRhw7/A)
I tickled out the slot until the material to be used for the nut just fit in.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-tQmGkrW/0/7b1769f9/XL/IMG_5917%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-tQmGkrW/A)
And then the same for the other slot. Again - plunged most material out, leaving 0.01" on depth, then cleaned up.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-ngvGfq6/0/f5e49b3e/XL/IMG_5918%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-ngvGfq6/A)
Finished part - still needs some deburring.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-nB96rz3/0/efe9c0ae/XL/IMG_5919%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-nB96rz3/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-NtFkj8Q/0/0dd47005/XL/IMG_5920%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-NtFkj8Q/A)
Then I started thinking about some other components. I was enjoying milling so I moved on to making a collet to hold square bar stock, which will be used to make linkage components for the valve drive rod.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-62xC8c3/0/5591e842/XL/IMG_5922%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-62xC8c3/A)
The overhang of this aluminum rod did cause some chattering at the end, but by making a finish pass it cleaned up fine.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-P79r7Vg/0/35176a87/XL/IMG_5924%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-P79r7Vg/A)
After taking the shaft about 0.01" past centerline, I rotated the part 45°, positioned the cutter and milled a slot.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-NZ8d9NC/0/0eea1600/XL/IMG_5925%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-NZ8d9NC/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-nvDtw5W/0/7fc82718/XL/IMG_5926%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-nvDtw5W/A)
Chopped into two pieces, and being used to hold the sqaure stock in the lathe.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-NBR2LPP/0/f08c64c9/XL/IMG_5927%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-NBR2LPP/A)
That's as far as I got today. Next stage is either the linkage components or go back to the crankshaft.
A good day in the shoppe today. :ThumbsUp:
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Great results, and I like that square bar collet.
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Since they have no lip on the front edge they may slide into the collet that holds them; retrieval will waste some time. A fix for this is to tap the front of the two halves for small screws which overlap the edge when seated. Alternatively a bit of bent wire loctited into a hole will prevent them from hiding in the collet interior.
If you want to use the 4jaw when turning polygonal stock, you may want to think about making one of these...
https://www.homemadetools.net/forum/centering-aid-polygonal-stock-27183
to aid in centering.
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Blast. I didn’t think of that. Thanks Marv, I’ll make an adjustment to the collet. Maybe I’ll even make another one. Most of the time taken was aligning the rotary table, and that is still set up.
I like your centering aid. I wanted to use the collet approach this time just because it is small size stock.
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Nice progress. :ThumbsUp:
The square bar collet looks like a very handy idea...
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I wish I could claim it as my idea - but it isn’t. Anyway, I tried making another at the weekend, with a lip to stop the adapter disappearing into the collet, but the endeavour didn’t go so well, and now I have to try again. I think this adapter will be useful over time, so worth having one that is made properly.
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OK - I made a new holder. Same idea as before, but turned the body down to 3/8", leaving a stock 1/2" lip to stop the adapter disappearing inside the collet, per Marv's recommendation. This has indeed turned out to be a good move.
New holder:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-pmkf5tq/0/37064dd6/XL/IMG_5937%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-pmkf5tq/A)
And using it to start making the linkage.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-3SWqqJJ/0/bbff7ba6/XL/IMG_5939%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-3SWqqJJ/A)
The little holder is not perfect - it is not quite centered. Off by about 0.002 I think, which is really not acceptable - I could center much better than that in a 4 jaw, but my 4 jaw is a bit big for this job. I may attempt another holder. It's actually quite a good exercise for tuning in my milling techniques.
Not much progress, but some.
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But a cool item nonetheless.
You appear to have the admirable qualities of persistence and patience.
:ThumbsUp:
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If you ever run across a 4jaw for a small lathe, e.g., Unimat or Sherline, snap it up. Make a stub for it and pop it into your 3jaw for small jobs like this.
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But a cool item nonetheless.
You appear to have the admirable qualities of persistence and patience.
:ThumbsUp:
Thanks Gary, though I was starting to run out of both on this exercise.
Marv - great idea. I am now watching a few different small chucks, and I think I will try and pick one up before making the mating part to this. Frankly, I think the collet adapter approach I tried here is a great idea - but the part has to be precisely made. Mine wasn't nearly good enough, and it took me some rework to get it to function at all.
That said, improvements to techniques don't come without pushing yourself somewhat, so no regrets. I may well attempt to make another collet adapter to use for the mating part of this linkage, but for now I'll take a break from 3/16" square brass and make something else.
Anyway, some pics. The basic approach to this is simple enough - mill away two sides, drill the hole for the pin. Then I chose to shape the end by hand - I'm not very good at that kind of hand work, but for this part it worked well enough. Then cut off with some stock left, into the lathe, face to length, turn the chamfer, drill and tap the hole. Here are a few pics en route. I had to use my standard approach of "make it at least twice" before it came out "well enough". It's about 0.01" too short, but I think it will work. The tang is spot on though, in terms of length, thickness and hole position.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-c3xfpFn/0/e3ed6215/XL/IMG_5944%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-c3xfpFn/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-N9JCBzV/0/cc5ce4d2/XL/IMG_5945%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-N9JCBzV/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-pMT2HjN/0/077f80fd/XL/IMG_5946%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-pMT2HjN/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-ZVn6k2K/0/d4b95ac2/XL/IMG_5947%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-ZVn6k2K/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-RdsbR8m/0/3c27de02/XL/IMG_5948%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-RdsbR8m/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Dcj7J4L/0/82ed5360/XL/IMG_5949%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Dcj7J4L/A)
I need to try something else, so I think I will have a try at the eccentric or the piston next, before returning to the crankshaft.
Boy, there is still a long way to go on this.
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I finally got caught up on your build thread Stuart. It's coming along nicely. :ThumbsUp:
Jim
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Neat work Stuart.
Seems to me that when it comes to engine building there's always a long way to go...
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Thanks chaps.
Had some fun turning the eccentric hub today. Simple enough, but turning offset features in the 4 jaw gives me a lot of pleasure for some reason. I always enjoy the first start up of the lathe and seeing the center point stationary with an obvious offset mass whirling around it. I don't know - it's the simple things I guess.
Anyway, for this, I cleaned up the ends of the supplied steel first, then transferred to the mill. Found center in the mill, offset the required .188", and center drilled the position of the bore.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-nSZ6hJp/0/875feaf5/XL/IMG_5951%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-nSZ6hJp/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-zBp86bR/0/5c1fb323/XL/IMG_5952%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-zBp86bR/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-vjxddQP/0/16cb250d/XL/IMG_5953%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-vjxddQP/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-RN25RpG/0/69b37e35/XL/IMG_5954%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-RN25RpG/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-MmbLLs2/0/4554a124/XL/IMG_5955%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-MmbLLs2/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-qPFj4WM/0/2060fa81/XL/IMG_5956%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-qPFj4WM/A)
I was pleased to find that after drilling and reaming the hole, a .375 pin would just slide in, squishing the air pocket as it did so, but that a .376 pin would not go in. :ThumbsUp:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-kCWP74V/0/03ce55ed/XL/IMG_5957%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-kCWP74V/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-T8XpBxJ/0/4c46cfba/XL/IMG_5958%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-T8XpBxJ/A)
That was a lot of fun. Not especially difficult, and all dimensions hit at this point.
next is to turn a groove in the OD for the eccentric follower to ride in. I made a start, but on the basis that I have very little experience grooving (other than my wicked moves on a saturday night), I have decided to practice this aspect on a piece of scrap first, because it would be a shame to ruin this part at this stage.
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:ThumbsUp:
Looking good Stuart!
John
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Most satisfying.
And I'm sure your Saturday night clubbing (disco?) experience will stand you in good stead in the workshop.
Relax and swing...
8)
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"Well you can tell by the way I use my lathe
I'm an engine man, no time to talk.
Squealing loud and coolant warm, I've been kicked around
Since I was born
And now it's alright, it's okay
And you may look the other way
We can try to understand
The carbide inserts effect on man
Whether you're a turner or whether you're a miller
You're stayin' alive, stayin' alive
Feel the tool tip breakin' and everybody shakin'
And we're stayin' alive, stayin' alive
Ah, ha, ha, ha, stayin' alive, stayin' alive"
Sorry.
:embarassed:
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:ROFL:
That's pretty good! the Bee Gees should have gotten you to write their lyrics! :lolb:
Kim
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And then there's the line in the Thomson Twins song:
'...I know what it means to work hard on machines...'.
I offer this without comment other than to say that in my home shop the only machines I have are a metal lathe, a wood lathe, a drilling machine and a milling machine...
:thinking:
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Well, I got my groove on, and this is where I am.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-79rhKf6/0/1e0af66d/XL/IMG_5959%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-79rhKf6/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-DksL66G/0/8e1b947e/XL/IMG_5960%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-DksL66G/A)
Made a few novice mistakes along the way, but recovered - didn't scrap the part.
Even managed to part it off, without too much drama.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-rcXTnFb/0/ed79da1e/XL/IMG_5961%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-rcXTnFb/A)
Except for that blasted stub. But no matter, I left a little stock on the back face for some clean up, since I had a suspicion that parting off might not give me the final finish I want. I'll get there on that, but I know I can skim that face to a nice finish, so not too worried. Just trying to decide whether to make a little aluminum collar to hold it on the groove diameter, or just set it up in the mill and skim it there.
On balance, though it is more time consuming, I think I will make a little collar, because then I can chamfer the edges of the lips, hiding that error you can see in the picture. There I go making mountains out of molehills again.
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Nice work, and nothing wrong with setting a high standard for yourself and having the patience to work towards it.
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Thanks Gary - always appreciate your input and encouragement.
Turns out making a little collar to hold the part was not a big deal, helped a lot by the fact I found this in the scrap bin.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-j4BTmD6/0/1a515f53/XL/IMG_5962%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-j4BTmD6/A)
Can't remember for the life of me what project that resulted from, but it just needed a little boring out to size.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-gWdFBbb/0/413e4907/XL/IMG_5963%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-gWdFBbb/A)
And when all was said and done, the backside cleaned up a treat.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Q9SqfJ9/0/16e91c92/XL/IMG_5964%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Q9SqfJ9/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-STtcJ8j/0/fbee38a5/XL/IMG_5965%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-STtcJ8j/A)
Still needs a little deburring and chamfering on the inside of the lips, but you know - overall - satisfied with this part, plus tried my hand at some new things. Win!
Now it's time to clean down the lathe, then a cocktail and get ready for thanksgiving tomorrow. :wine1:
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:cheers:
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Can't get that Thompson Twins track out of my head since you mentioned it Gary - at least while I'm in the shoppe. :Lol:
Not to worry, my iPhone helps with that. Either music of my own preference, or old episodes of "I'm Sorry I haven't a Clue". But that's a topic for another thread.
So, finished up the eccentric hub this morning. I wanted to ACTUALLY finish it before moving on. So I did indeed chamfer the edges of the lips, which would have been a lot easier had I left the part on the stock bar a bit longer. No matter, the little collar worked well, and let me hold it securely without damaging the lips.
Then the last thing was the 5-40 hole for a grub screw.
Getting the orientation set up using a gauge pin:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-MqwZR3v/0/de4d42cc/XL/IMG_5966%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-MqwZR3v/A)
Gauge pins are excellent tools to have. I bought a set a month ago, after seeing machinists at work establish locations using them, and then following up with an online tutorial from Joe Pie. I use these pins every time I am in the shoppe.
Then, drilling and tapping as has been seen and posted about a million billion times. Possibly more than that.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-c33VLPC/0/46bd55f8/XL/IMG_5967%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-c33VLPC/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-fTm35TF/0/2b3be15b/XL/IMG_5968%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-fTm35TF/A)
And there it is, hiding among the other parts, both finished, raw, part finished and of no use to anyone.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-NtCQGLL/0/0ab88cd5/XL/IMG_5970%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-NtCQGLL/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-qLKSKS8/0/b1637f53/XL/IMG_5969%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-qLKSKS8/A)
Next up is the eccentric follower.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-K7jc68B/0/2820967e/XL/IMG_5974%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-K7jc68B/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-9D2KLjj/0/54b1e856/XL/IMG_5971%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-9D2KLjj/A)
All I did today was a little bit of clean up, and some measurements of the casting to understand how much stock I have. I'm trying to take a bit more time to get familiar with castings before actually setting them up, and try and figure out any "gotchas", and figure out what stock there is where, and therefore how to get machined surfaces located relative to surfaces that will be left raw, to make sure visual appeal is maintained. This is all part of making an attractive engine, I think.
I did get one side flat on the sanding belt. The casting started off approx 0.005" parallel between the two sides (crude measurement), and there is roughly .1" of stock to take off, so should be plenty.
I have clamped it in place ready for a skim of the other side. Only a minimum clean up right now - so that I can hold it for drilling bolt holes and cutting it in half. I'll go to final thickness after the two halves are bolted back together, so that I can make sure the center of the lobes is centered on the finished part. That's the plan anyway.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-G7DD7Df/0/76118a4c/XL/IMG_5975%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-G7DD7Df/A)
Right now though, it's time to begin Thanksgiving day food prep, and likely a mid day bubbly. So the shoppe is closed for the day.
Thanks for looking in, and Happy Holidays and best wishes to you. :cheers:
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Yeah - that damn song has been reverberating in my head too... :lolb:
Great progress. Your 'family shot' is looking good.
Good point about the aesthetics of machined and unmachined casting surfaces juxtaposed. Always worth slowing down to think things through (says me, who so often doesn't...).
I can see I'll have to look into this gauge pins business - I have no idea, rookie that I am, of what they are or how they work.
Enjoy the bubbly and all that goes with it!
:cheers:
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I can see I'll have to look into this gauge pins business - I have no idea, rookie that I am, of what they are or how they work.
:cheers:
My set of gauge pins (mine go up to .250 in .001 increments) are one of my most useful measuring tools. Definitely one of those things that a person doesn't realize how useful they are until you have a set. I'm getting a set of the ones that go from .250 to .500 as soon as they're back in stock. Here's the set I presently have: https://www.shars.com/products/measuring/pin-plug-gages/061-250-minus-steel-plug-gage-set
Have a nice Thanksgiving, Jim
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Well, they look great Jim. Clearly I'm going to have to watch the Joe Pie video on them as my end-of-day viewing this evening!
:cheers:
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There are several tools I’ve been lucky enough to acquire that are “nice haves”, but the .061 thru .500 gauge pins would come ahead of those. For both set up and inspection they are invaluable. I think the “minus” set is most important. I don’t have a plus set, and I don’t think a home shop needs both sets.
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Didn't manage to look at the vid last night (too knackered) but will do so.
Thanks for the info!
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Here are some progress pics. I don't have too much to say about it. The approach was straightforward - skim both sides flat. Set up and face the three bosses, drill and tap three holes. Separate the part into two halves - open up the tapped holes in the cap to clearance holes, face bopth halves, bolt together, bore out, then skim to size. Finally, drill and tap the oiler hole.
It all went pretty much to plan. Centering the part in the 4 jaw was done crudely by aligning with a dead center. This seems to have worked well - I checked run out before boring - the inside was pretty true, the outside certainly had some visual run out, but it is not a perfectly concentric part. I decided to go with it as it was. The material removal on the ID was pretty consistent straight away, so I think this worked out well enough.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-dxknxsK/0/5d8795e4/XL/IMG_5976%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-dxknxsK/A)
Setting up for the bosses.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-XcjxDgw/0/e512c2c3/XL/IMG_5977%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-XcjxDgw/A)
I checked relative height of each side boss by touching off with the tool tip, and it was within 2 thou, as shown by the DRO in the pic after next.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-G7k6R6t/0/a7a89a8a/XL/IMG_5978%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-G7k6R6t/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-BdWZVNg/0/6f6e9eb1/XL/IMG_5979%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-BdWZVNg/A)
Boss face clean up:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-CTrd88n/0/a8ce3056/XL/IMG_5980%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-CTrd88n/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-qS4bFvd/0/efa2543e/XL/IMG_5983%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-qS4bFvd/A)
Getting ready to split. My prior set up was not thought through well enough, so I had to do a new set up to saw the part.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-dQsNhMC/0/f1edccde/XL/IMG_5984%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-dQsNhMC/A)
Obtaining center by using the saw, feeler gauge and DRO.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-6csmPK4/0/bcc47a2c/XL/IMG_5986%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-6csmPK4/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-fKPGkv4/0/928bdbfb/XL/IMG_5987%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-fKPGkv4/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-CjrQBRV/0/6bd9ecf9/XL/IMG_5988%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-CjrQBRV/A)
Clean up:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-NTPcPtV/0/b649e6f4/XL/IMG_5989%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-NTPcPtV/A)
Ready for boring (probably what I'm doing to anyone looking at this thread)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Rn2b2vz/0/50644445/XL/IMG_5990%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Rn2b2vz/A)
Alignment:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-r3sZftM/0/06d753b8/XL/IMG_5991%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-r3sZftM/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-K7jfsNr/0/4e5c0b5e/XL/IMG_5992%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-K7jfsNr/A)
After boring and facing:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-QXWVvDn/0/c36d76de/XL/IMG_5993%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-QXWVvDn/A)
And last but not least, the oiler hole:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-ZB3NkGc/0/d9358221/XL/IMG_5994%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-ZB3NkGc/A)
I did a test fit on the eccentric hub, and annoyingly it is tight. However, I am suspicious of burrs on edges. I'm going to give both parts a deburr session and try again, but I may have to go back on the lathe and skim out a thou, which never works well. Hopefully deburring takes care of it.
Still, not a bad day. Cheers!
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Wow, nice results! That indexable cutter you used on the mill gives a great finish, looks different than the ones I have seen, with a more shallow relief on the inside of the tip, towards the screw.
For the tight fit on the eccentric, is it a small enough difference to use some lapping compound on it rather than try and center it on the lathe again? If its just a thou or so, some Timesavers powder mixed with oil will take that down and give a smooth running fit.
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Thank you! I am very pleased with this part. I think I have done a reasonable job this time of getting the machined surfaces balanced to the location of cast features, resulting in a decent looking part as well as functional. I must say I like your suggestion of lapping very much - that is the way to go. If I chuck this up I know I will take too much off. The two halves come together over the eccentric hub without needing to crank the screws hard, so it is a minimal anount to take off.
The insert is one specifically made for aluminum and non ferrous metals. In researching inserts recently I happened uon these, and thought I would try them. While I was making a test cut on a piece of 6061 I was blinded by the reflection of my little LED light, the surface finish was so good. Very impressive, and cutting dry too. No more expensive than a TiN coated carbide insert. It’s an APKT11T308LH insert.
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That came out great Stuart. Well done. I worked a little on the same part on my PMR #5 today.
Jim
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Well I did a little close up investigation, and re measured OD of the hub and ID of the follower, and discovered that within the measuring capability of my calipers, ID and OD are identical. Couldn't have achieved that if I'd tried for it. I can get a 2 thou feeler gauge in this gap, and freely rotate the hub.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-QFJxjQq/0/c90d070e/XL/IMG_5996%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-QFJxjQq/A)
So I gave the follower a polish on the ID, and the hub a polish on the OD, and after that they go together nicely and the hub rotates freely in the follower. Sort of disappointed, but polishing those two diameters to a better finish is not a bad thing anyway I guess.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-qgnDJdM/0/44e4062d/XL/IMG_5997%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-qgnDJdM/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-jcxSTsq/0/1d4aac37/XL/IMG_5998%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-jcxSTsq/A)
The photos tend to exaggerate surface roughness, but even so I could have done better on the face of the hub with the offset boss on it. Should have done a skim after making the offset boss. Live and learn.
After that, I didn't make any new parts, but spent the day reorganizing the shoppe to better arrange tools. I made a Version 3 roly thing:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-j5TXR5d/0/51120eb9/X2/IMG_5995%20%28Large%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-j5TXR5d/A)
It's just one of those cheapy wire carts, but with solid infills on all 3 shelves, and anti slip mats on the lower 2. Top one deliberately has no lip. Also added a backboard out of some scrap polypropylene sheet that was thrown out from work years ago. This serves as a clip board for prints and a white board for notes as needed. This is so any metrology tools don't sit on the top with other tools and bits of material, where they have a habit of working their way towards edges. Middle one is for said metrology tools, so that they can't be knocked off during normal use. Top is for whatever selection of tools I need for whatever I'm doing. Lower one actually now has my gauge pins on it for ready access. Quickly thrown together though this is, it's rather handy.
And then I allowed myself a look at the next engine project, for inspiration.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-k8RXsfM/0/47043624/X2/IMG_5999%20%28Large%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-k8RXsfM/A)
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Came out great!
And next to the new cart, see that you have a comfy chair for sitting back and admiring the progress - very important!
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Very, very important!
Sometimes it's necessary to sit in a contemplative manner. Either to plan what's coming up, or figure out what just went wrong.
Or just nap. Let's not forget that, either.
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Great work on that follower.
Very nice shop! Looks more comfortable than some living rooms I have seen in my time.
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Is that next project a PMR #4?
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Thank you! The shop itself has been a work in progress over the last 10 years. I’m pretty happy with it.
That is indeed a PMR #4. It’s a beastie, but I don’t think it will be any more complex than the #1. I was checking that my mill has the travel to handle it, which it does. But no starting it until the current engine is done.
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Nice...
It might even be easier because it's bigger.
Yes, wise not to start it till the #1 is finished. Something to look forward to. Also, you wouldn't want to be getting the parts mixed up between the two engines! :Lol:
I have a PMR #6 sitting as yet untouched. I bought it in a fit of inspiration a couple of years ago after seeing this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FXeYKvQQ6o
However, I decided I'd better start with a few 'barstock' engines as practice lest I destroy the castings. The uniflow is the second of these. To be honest, I'm now more drawn to making engines of my own design, but no doubt I'll get on to the #6 at some point.
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Thanks for the link Gary.
Now I've got it into my head to build a boiler for my PMR #1. once it's finished.
:facepalm: :facepalm2:
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Ha, yes.
What type and size are you thinking of? A PMR kit, or your own design...?
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I’ve ordered the book “model boilers and boilermaking”, I figured I’d start there. So not my own design, probably from drawings rather than a kit.
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Way to go, I reckon. And you can always make a few minor mods according to your requirements, which makes it your own.
The K.N. Harris book? It's very good, and is filled with hilarious old-school Brit pronouncements. :)
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That's the one! I was reading through the "boiler" forum last night, and that seemed to come up frequently. Looking forward to reading it - I do love an old school pronouncement!
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You are in for a treat, then!
What kind of size are you looking at?
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Well I’m not totally sure, but from my little bit of readung it seems like a 3” boiler will run this engine, so that’s a good starting point, rather than immediately jumping at one big enough for the PMR #4. Keep the material costs down a bit. I was looking at your boiler thread last night, which I enjoyed reading again.
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Ha, yes - beset with trials and tribulations as it was! :Mad: I got there though...
Good idea to start smallish I reckon, so that by the time you get to building a bigger one you have some experience under your belt.
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One of the things on my long list (and believe me, it's very long) is an 8 inch version of one of the horizontal boilers in the Harris book. Steel barrel with copper tubes rolled in.
I already have the 8 inch steel pipe taking up space in my workshop.
An exciting but daunting prospect...
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The funnest projects are always daunting at first! It’s good to have a long project list. Dreams are important. There is a steam tractor on my list - all these other engines are really just a roadmap to a traction engine. Maybe I’ll get there, maybe not. But there should be good scenery en route.
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Great philosophy Stuart.
'Good scenery en route' - I like that.
:ThumbsUp:
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Progress! Not a whole lot - had to do a few other projects to help some people out. One of which involved me taking my first tentative steps in TIG welding, so still fun.
But, after that, got back to the engine.
Mounted my collet chuck back on the lathe, and worked on the crankshaft. Even got to use my recently made carriage stop, which was hugely satisfying.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-2T2DbBj/0/47840f17/XL/IMG_6001%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-2T2DbBj/A)
Not great finishes.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-B2wK7JR/0/1e16ca36/XL/IMG_6002%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-B2wK7JR/A)
Went to test it in the base casting - fits lovely - nicely held between the journals, and it spins a treat. Not too much play, spins freely. I am exceedingly happy with this.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-qZCz5xC/0/1c3c576c/XL/IMG_6003%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-qZCz5xC/A)
Now I have to mill out the center support web and turn the big end journal. I am frankly nervous that the crank will move all over the place when I mill out the support, but if it does I'll just make a built crankshaft. I had considered making a support jig, and taking out the support bridge before doing any turning - but I've read some success stories with this approach, so I just went for it.
If it doesn't move too much when I take out the bridge, then I'll make a jig to hold it and turn that center journal.
Exciting, and I'm pleased with this. :ThumbsUp:
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Looking great, Stuart. It must have been a relief when you realised the fit was good and the shaft turned sweetly.
Fingers crossed that it doesn't distort when you mill out the support web.
:ThumbsUp:
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It is very satisfying to make a part that just fits properly into the mating part, without having to go back and fettle it. I’m hitting dimensions much more accurately now, and I have high hopes for a decent operating engine.
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I started the day feeling cranky, but as I got on with things I started to feel groovy.
Oh what a barrel of laughs I am today.
Anyway, I had what I thought was a rock solid plan for finishing the crankshaft, so to that end, I popped it in the mill, to find center of the shafts, and spot the .75" offset for the crank diameter turning. Which worked great.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Ffr6JtV/0/ef19d2a7/XL/IMG_6004%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Ffr6JtV/A)
Small ER11 collets and a holder are jolly handy to have around for clearance issues.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-SBzMKc6/0/cbc32bcb/XL/IMG_6005%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-SBzMKc6/A)
A little jumping around. I decided to clean the outside of the webs to a radius while I still had the collet chuck set up.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-d6S5ZcX/0/a5c50dd3/XL/IMG_6006%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-d6S5ZcX/A)
Then cleaned the underside and removed the bridge.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-SZpZ4Hx/0/c6eb557e/XL/IMG_6007%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-SZpZ4Hx/A)
I haven't been able to bring myself to check whether the thing has moved around yet.
But anyway - went to install in the 4 jaw, thinking I could hold on to one crank web and indicate the spot mark. But no go - the one shaft going into the chuck interferes with the chuck body, and I can't get it positioned right. So, I may have to make the jig that PM Research have in their plans after all.
But I didn't feel like doing that right now, so I decided to make the piston. A failry simple part really, just needing diligence on turning the diameter.
I turned diameter, then made a "sacrificial groove" on the end face, to check depth of the grooving tool, and set up the dial. Then made the grooves. This carbide grooving tool is really, really nice.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-J6FjZNd/0/596c0603/XL/IMG_6009%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-J6FjZNd/A)
I set up a DTI to more accurately measure saddle movement.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-TkJXBmP/0/eaef2a2e/XL/IMG_6010%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-TkJXBmP/A)
This works so well, that I am clearly going to have to make a proper holder for it and use it routinely. Cheaper than a DRO, although more faffing about.
After grooving for a while, I cleaned up the face and drilled the 1/8" through hole. I wanted to do this in one set up, because it is important that the hole is very perpendicular to this face, as this is what locates the cylinder shaft - although really it's just the face that does that.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-nchFGqw/0/0af50b7c/XL/IMG_6013%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-nchFGqw/A)
Parting is such sweet sorrow.
This was the best parting op I have ever done. The parted face ended up with a good surface finish. I could have parted to length - and probably will next time. First time using this tool.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-m7VdXT4/0/ca14e083/XL/IMG_6014%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-m7VdXT4/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-T7DP8Gq/0/55601d08/XL/IMG_6015%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-T7DP8Gq/A)
Then flipped it round, faced off the little bit of clean up stock and counter bored the other side per print.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-nGXvgd5/0/0ee70e23/XL/IMG_6016%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-nGXvgd5/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-tNJfmSD/0/aaea3d57/XL/IMG_6017%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-tNJfmSD/A)
That was fun. Interesting change in surface finish on the face of the part in the last picture. Can't feel it with a fingernail - it's just from when I turned the coolant on part way through facing it. Lesson learned - perfectly fine, just looks weird. I can polish it out, but since it will be hidden in the cylinder I'm going to leave it as is.
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Here are todays shed-nanigans. Basically, I took a rusty old lump of some sort of steel - no idea what alloy - I liberated it when it was thrown out at work about 12 years ago. Anyway, this became the basis for a holding jig for the crankshaft. There now follows pictures, but not much explanation. (Further research leads me to believe it is 4140 HT. Partly because of the yellow identifier colour one end, and because all the materials at that little firm came from McMaster Carr - I believe that's their identifier - could be wrong).
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-GSF8cqc/0/9340b1c9/XL/IMG_6019%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-GSF8cqc/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-fV2TmcX/0/11b72c7a/XL/IMG_6020%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-fV2TmcX/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-DZRJR7Z/0/9e1f4a01/XL/IMG_6021%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-DZRJR7Z/A)
I like my rolly-cart, which is handy for holding up drawings close at each machine, as well as essential tools. Like the engineers universal adjusting tool (coarse version).
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-9nMNdSq/0/f9885c05/X2/IMG_6022%20%28Large%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-9nMNdSq/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-j6PTX6K/0/b73d999e/X2/IMG_6023%20%28Large%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-j6PTX6K/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-J8VVPcg/0/64cfdc59/X2/IMG_6025%20%28Large%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-J8VVPcg/A)
To the mill - and centering with the very fun centering indicator.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-26GMCdV/0/04e6ad69/X2/IMG_6026%20%28Large%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-26GMCdV/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-sfRLv7G/0/1b35bf98/X2/IMG_6027%20%28Large%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-sfRLv7G/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-R4hKDW3/0/6922516e/X2/IMG_6028%20%28Large%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-R4hKDW3/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-KftdXFF/0/dc7eb3d4/X2/IMG_6029%20%28Large%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-KftdXFF/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-xCwSfJQ/0/f4c6110e/X2/IMG_6030%20%28Large%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-xCwSfJQ/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-55JgfMh/0/02ec09f3/X2/IMG_6031%20%28Large%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-55JgfMh/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-GmdtjSB/0/5fc0c4a9/X2/IMG_6033%20%28Large%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-GmdtjSB/A)
I tried it in the 3 jaw first - the design of the jig (slightly different to mine) comes from PM Research, and the idea is to use it this way to get the crank throw. It works well, I only ended up 0.003" off.
However, I never intended to use the 3 jaw (although let's face it, that would work fine), but I got it to 0.0005" in the 4 jaw.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-bTsZNpK/0/c90cdf6a/X2/IMG_6035%20%28Large%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-bTsZNpK/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-4Qk449q/0/ba082840/X2/IMG_6036%20%28Large%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-4Qk449q/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-jhhJpD2/0/713a344b/X2/IMG_6037%20%28Large%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-jhhJpD2/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Sx4Qwq8/0/aaddbec3/X2/IMG_6038%20%28Large%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Sx4Qwq8/A)
That's as far as I got. I got the crank cleaned up, but now I need to take it to final diameter. But I ran out of time and energy today.
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Nicely done! :ThumbsUp: Those co-ax indicators are super handy.
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I love that co ax indicator. Bit of a luxury, because you can achieve the same with a lever type dial indicator, but it’s really fast to get accurately centered.
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If I ever finish this engine and get it to run nicely on compressed air, then I’m going to be making serious use of this book that I just obtained. It’s an excellent book, has to be said.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-9wtPN25/0/d3af086f/X2/IMG_5830_HEIC-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-9wtPN25/A)
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I started the day feeling cranky, but as I got on with things I started to feel groovy.
Oh what a barrel of laughs I am today.
Parting is such sweet sorrow.
Well, at least you're not the sort to make cutting remarks...
Great progress you have been making. I hadn't received any notifications for a while so I wondered if you were on 'pause' mode, but I must have just missed one (after which no more are forthcoming until you read the first one).
You are getting the urge to build a boiler... the K N Harris book is a great resource.
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Thanks for checking in Gary! I always appreciate it when people comment.
I'm pleased with the progress - although I made a couple of errors on the crankshaft jig and wrecked a couple of HSS milling cutters. Nothing dangerous, just stupid approach, resulting in burned up cutter ends and hardened steel on the part. Had to change my approach a bit, but recovery went well and the jig is working nicely.
Yes - I'm pleased enough with the fit of the parts on this engine, that if it runs well on compressed air, then I'll kick off a boiler project. I got lucky on the book - only $15 lightly used, and it's an older genuine deition with nice clear plates and pictures in it. Bit of a treasure, almost has me wanting to protect it and get a rattier version. I also have some drawings coming from Reeves. Haven't decided what design boiler to make yet, just taking an interest for now. I may well model up whatever design I choose and do a full finite element analysis on it. I need the practice on that anyway.
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Am looking forward to seeing you develop a boiler!
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Well, at least you're not the sort to make cutting remarks...
This didn't go unnoticed by the way. I just couldn't think of a decent riposte. I'm not feeling very sharp today. I need more of an edge.
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Me too. I was thinking of taking a walk to see if it would give me some inspiration, but I just looked out the window and it's rough out, so best just to bring it to a finish now.
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I can't follow that! I guess I'd better stick to making this engine. Crankshaft finished, and made a start on the connecting rod.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-gpQX8dB/0/XL/i-gpQX8dB-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-gpQX8dB/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-kWB54fh/0/XL/i-kWB54fh-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-kWB54fh/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-tFvK3s5/0/XL/i-tFvK3s5-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-tFvK3s5/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-4dnk7J4/0/XL/i-4dnk7J4-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-4dnk7J4/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-5D5CPdr/0/XL/i-5D5CPdr-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-5D5CPdr/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-xTGn9sN/0/XL/i-xTGn9sN-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-xTGn9sN/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-2vLhp98/0/XL/i-2vLhp98-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-2vLhp98/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-rmVhDws/0/XL/i-rmVhDws-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-rmVhDws/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-XL96cSd/0/XL/i-XL96cSd-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-XL96cSd/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-wDhwT4B/0/XL/i-wDhwT4B-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-wDhwT4B/A)
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Very nice work on that crankshaft, Stuart. The conrod should be fun!
It's starting to look like an engine now...
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Hi Stuart,
May I suggest you mount the connecting rod on top of a piece of scrap (jig) so that when you bore through the two ends you don't mark your mill's table ;)
Jo
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Thanks Gary.
Yes Jo - you may suggest that, although at this stage I'm only flattening off the sides, I wasn't planning to drill either hole yet. I'm going to drill the big end bosses next on an angle plate, before returning to the table to drill the little end hole, and then split the big end, and get ready for drilling and reaming that.
To be honest, I think I'm already making a bit more of a meal of this part than I needed to. I could have drilled the little end in that first set up, but at the time I wanted to register the big end against the table for best parallelism. Probably a bit over the top of an approach, and more set ups than needed now that I step back and look at it again. Oh well.
Thanks for looking in and commenting though, much appreciated. :ThumbsUp:
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Here it is, just got it levelled up, and ready to clean off the bosses and drill the tapping holes.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-hXzDd2k/0/XL/i-hXzDd2k-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-hXzDd2k/A)
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Nice setup. The mill looks pristine too!
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Thanks Gary - I try and keep it clean, but I’m not afraid to run coolant on it. In any case, all the more reason to heed Jo’s advice and not peck drill holes in the table! That would be very upsetting, I freely admit.
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Haven't had as much shed time as I'd anticipated. Still, got down there for a little bit tonight.
Holes in big end drilled.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-4mhZR2H/0/X2/i-4mhZR2H-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-4mhZR2H/A)
Note that I left the casting gate in place, and also milled it flat as a reference surface.
Then re-positioned to get the little end hole drilled. I used that reference surface as an aid to squaring up the part. I used a pin gauge of the same diameter as the little end OD to do a visual centering alignment.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7ZW6Hfr/0/XL/i-7ZW6Hfr-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-7ZW6Hfr/A)
Drilled and reamed for a pin.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-tNVZtvJ/0/XL/i-tNVZtvJ-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-tNVZtvJ/A)
I then went and drilled a 1/4" hole at the finished distance (3.375") from the little end. This will give me a visual aid when I saw the big end in the next step.
Now - I was sorely tempted to make a 3/8" slot, to become a 3/8" hole after slitting the big end. However - I felt that was being too cocky. I've seen it done - but the guy who did it is a highly experienced production machinist. You can see the video on youtube.
For now I'm taking the simple approach.
Pleased with this though - the holes are nicely centered.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-6Wv2xsf/0/XL/i-6Wv2xsf-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-6Wv2xsf/A)
Next step is to slit the big end, bolt it back together and finish the big end bore.
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Well for the sake of keeping it going, here are some more pictures, carefully selected to avoid showing you the various balls ups made along the way.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-SSQbgNd/0/X2/i-SSQbgNd-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-SSQbgNd/A)
Usi ng a gauge pin to locate the hole relative to my reference surface, and hence establish cutting height for the slitting saw. This worked really well. Or would have, if I hadn't miscalculated the position the saw had to be at.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Xd9DTV6/0/X2/i-Xd9DTV6-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Xd9DTV6/A)
So, now jumping ahead past all the other machining operations to a test fit.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-wPNgqwB/0/X2/i-wPNgqwB-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-wPNgqwB/A)
The good news is that it all fits very nicely, and I can easily turn the crank over with my fingers and move the cross head back and forth.
So some progress. Pleased that these parts go together and align and turn without binding. Annoyed about some more mistakes that meant parts had to be made to fit each others uniqueness, rather than to print. Hopefully rectify such things on the next engine, but for now forge ahead.
I'll probably work on some of the fiddly bits next - keep going on the valve linkage, make the glands and threaded rods and what not. I'm saving the flywheel until last.
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Looking good
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Well, not much to report today. Some catch up on some simpler parts and some fiddly parts. Trimmed various rods to length, but couldn't thread the ends owing to lack of a 5-40 die. Although I could single point them.
Made the other half of the valve arm linkage.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-j9vzVM5/0/XL/i-j9vzVM5-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-j9vzVM5/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-VT7qtnZ/0/XL/i-VT7qtnZ-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-VT7qtnZ/A)
Still need to radius the lobes, which I shall do on the belt sander once I have made a rod to hold on to it. On future engines I'll use a radius cutter or some other technique to properly radius the ends of these kinds of parts, for now a gentle hand applied radius will do.
Nuts!
Well, cross slide nut.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7TnSFVK/0/XL/i-7TnSFVK-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-7TnSFVK/A)
I also made the hex locking nut for the piston rod. No pics of that - a simple enough part.
So, family shot as it stands now, including the ghost of Engine Past - my beloved Elmer Number 14, and at least one scrap item I see.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-KSw4L9j/0/XL/i-KSw4L9j-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-KSw4L9j/A)
With a bit of luck, tomorrow I can work on the two glands and get those done.
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Nice family shot, Stuart. Excellent progress. :ThumbsUp:
Jim
PS: I've got a few of those "custom" parts, as well, on my PMR #5.
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Thanks for looking in Jim. I still think it will run well, so looking forward to that day.
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Today's shednanigans centered around the two glands. These are awkward little parts.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-H9Zx3Bd/0/3f12ebe8/X2/IMG_6039%20%28Large%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-H9Zx3Bd/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Khqq5P8/0/86b2f6cd/X2/IMG_6040%20%28Large%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Khqq5P8/A)
I putzed around for a while trying to come up with various half baked approaches to holding the castings, getting ever impatient, but managed to reign myself in, decided to just take whatever time was needed and make some sort of holding fixture.
The techniques I have seen for making these parts include super gluing them to aluminum bosses, and pressure turning. I don't want to use those approaches, I prefer mechanical holding, so that was my approach.
First off, cleaned the casting gates off.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-htTXMgr/0/5a2e3a36/XL/IMG_6077%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-htTXMgr/A)
Then started scratching up some ideas, based on some measurements from the actual casting. I have a bunch of 1" diameter aluminum slugs laying around, all 5/8" long. These were thrown out by a previous employer. No idea what they were for, but they do come in handy from time to time.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-xCxnt97/0/303ba93e/XL/IMG_6078%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-xCxnt97/A)
The idea initially was to make essentially a holder in soft material so that I could turn the holder as well as the part. I was at first considering the pressure turning route.
Since I already had the collet chuck mounted and trued, this gave me a nice way of getting in close to the part.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-xQrQkz2/0/fcfaaa8d/XL/IMG_6079%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-xQrQkz2/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-SrwRxvx/0/408e317a/XL/IMG_6080%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-SrwRxvx/A)
It was at this point that I decided to add four tapped holes for set screws to clamp the part. I wish I had decided on that first, it would have been better to tap the holes on the circumference before boring the recess.
Anyway this meant making use of the new dividing head, in order to add 4 tapped holes around the circumference. This is just a pic of the head getting trued up.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-zwc2jDG/0/b20f7d0e/XL/IMG_6081%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-zwc2jDG/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-PL943Rt/0/ddf2dbac/XL/IMG_6082%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-PL943Rt/A)
So the tapped holes went in wonky because of course I was drilling into half thickness material at some points. But it still worked.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-j9rRVHh/0/9228cc67/XL/IMG_6083%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-j9rRVHh/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-KjVkBjs/0/87d5bea1/XL/IMG_6084%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-KjVkBjs/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-QRMxvZH/0/71bbd1d7/XL/IMG_6085%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-QRMxvZH/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-ZkZhXMW/0/c2810370/XL/IMG_6086%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-ZkZhXMW/A)
After machining to size on the lathe, this left only the two screw holes for clamping the gland to the steam chest - so another advantage of this little fixture was that I could transfer the part to the dividing head chuck and maintain concentricity of the boss and through hole to the OD of the fixture.
I used a gauge pin in the collet holder to center the spindle axis to the part, then moved the table to position the gauge pin at 1/4" distance from the center, and simply rotated the dividing head, visually aligning each lobe to the pin - obviously moving the pin from one side to the other. Then clamped the dividing head, changed over to the #41 drill, and drilled the two holes.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-6wQPG2t/0/6f19a6c9/XL/IMG_6088%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-6wQPG2t/A)
When all was said and done, the part came out well. The one side does not look centered, but that's a result of my over clean up on one side.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-9Hvwfmb/0/5977d0f2/XL/IMG_6089%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-9Hvwfmb/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-N4gFhZQ/0/08f30224/XL/IMG_6090%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-N4gFhZQ/A)
Up close it looks a bit rough, and does need a debur - but dimensionally it is spot on and fits the steam chest perfectly. So whereas I am usually lamenting about things not going right, this time it turned out, and I'm happy with it.
I ran out of time so I didn't get to the second gland, but I think I'll use the same approach.
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Great progress Stuart, and some interesting setups.
Looking very much like an engine these days!
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Thanks Gary - it's getting there at last. With a bit of luck by the end of next weekend I'll be giving it a first pass assemble to check out overall fit of parts.
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Looking forward to seeing that!
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Nice fixture, kind of like tiny little 4 jaw chuck. :ThumbsUp:
Dave
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Exactly Dave - has me thinking I could make a better one in steel for general purpose holding of small, awkward parts. Could even add brass “jaws”. I need to noodle on that a bit - could make something like a 2” OD with a 1” stub. Hmmmm.
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Slick little fixture, great progress. :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Like Dave said..........a miniature 4 jaw chuck. I'm definitely going to file that one away. :ThumbsUp:
Jim
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:ThumbsUp: Thank you all, I do enjoy knowing you are looking in. Quite looking forward to making a better version of this mini chuck and making the next gland.
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Nice work, I like your fixture, I never would have thought of doing it that way
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Thank you. I'm chuffed with my little 4 jaw. V2 will be even better.
In the meantime, I made a start on some test assembly.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-2ZN2hxn/0/24e88a7e/XL/IMG_6051%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-2ZN2hxn/A)
Very pleased to find that I can turn the crank over with my fingers, and the piston rod slides nicely in and out of the inboard head. Very, very pleased with this. Just need to stay the course now - it's finally looking kinda sorta like an engine.
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Looking good Stuart. :ThumbsUp:
Have you figured out what the purpose of that 1" long white piece of material is. I think it has something to do with the packing for the gland on the Inner Head. I haven't put any packing there on my PMR #5 yet.
Jim
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Thanks Jim!
Yes that 1” strip is teflon and is packing material for the glands. I saw someone actually roll a piece of it flatter before installing it. Seemed to help get it in place. I still have to make the inboard head gland, but I’ll be keen to get that done now.
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Well, a little more progress. I made another holding fixture for the cylinder gland. This time I got the sequence right, and drilled and tapped the set screw holes before boring / drilling. I also put them in at a slight angle (about 1°) so that when tightening on the part, they force it down into the fixture. That was the idea anyway, and it seems to have worked.
The bore was made to tightly fit the largest diameter of the gland, to help hold it concentric to the center axis.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-6Tjkn2z/0/92024791/XL/IMG_6094%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-6Tjkn2z/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-D2XWzd6/0/81ce73c1/XL/IMG_6096%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-D2XWzd6/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-rwWpNsd/0/ca95efe9/XL/IMG_6097%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-rwWpNsd/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Tf385zG/0/13836087/XL/IMG_6098%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Tf385zG/A)
I did have an oops. Tool dug in - I must have tried to take too much off.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-m6NhC6V/0/ab74e6e3/XL/IMG_6100%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-m6NhC6V/A)
I t dug into the part and made it look ugly - but happily there was a fair bit of stock still to come off, so it cleaned up OK.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-N6SkmtK/0/d4be268e/XL/IMG_6101%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-N6SkmtK/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-pLbLsNG/0/a019c067/XL/IMG_6102%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-pLbLsNG/A)
Off to the mill - centered using a gauge pin,
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Xv8DBLX/0/f13a4200/XL/IMG_6103%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Xv8DBLX/A)
then rotated the part back and forth until a gauge pin looked even on both ears, and then drilled the holes.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-kFFQ4gQ/0/f08f1741/XL/IMG_6104%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-kFFQ4gQ/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Q8PnLxr/0/d60ad861/XL/IMG_6106%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Q8PnLxr/A)
Rotten finish on the front. It buffed up OK though.
Then I spent a bunch of time ruining some 1/8" stainless and brass rods, as I realized I didn't know enough about cutting male threads. A bunch of research, reading and some test runs later, and I'm about ready to re make those parts. So when I do, I'll post pictures.
That's it for now though.
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Nice work Stuart.
These mini-chucks of yours are an excellent idea..
The engine as assembled so far looks very handsome.
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EPPT...... :happyreader:...
....'excellent practical pictorial tutorial' in achieving rigidity and sound accuracy .....thanks for sharing Stuart....
A real help for newer players ...also plants the seed for other applications
[Some 55 years ago, I commenced a Fitting & Machining Apprenticeship...during a 6 month Term along this 4 year path, I was assigned to work under the supervision of a Grumpy :old: Scottsman .......he spent 1/2 of his time designing and making Jigs of all types to achieve his level of component accuracy and repeatability] .......
The Grumpyness was only a ploy...as his quest was to impart knowledge and the need to think, then ask if you were unsure......
Derek
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Thank you both for your very kind comments!
Derek, your grumpy Scot sounds like a fine fellow in fact. I've known a couple of folks like that - bit of a facade up front but incredibly helpful and knowledgeable.
It has been a bit since I had time to do any work on the engine, what with work and having to finish some other projects.
I had been working on a follow rest system for supporting small diameter shafts for turning and single point threading. It was way too complicated, and a complete failure. Based on something I saw Joe Pie demonstrate on youtube, and also on a thread on this very forum, I modified the follow rest and made it much simpler, and a lot more effective.
Essentially, I am just using my lathe follow rest, but I had made a new adjusting shaft and a bracket for it. The original idea was to use a couple of very small ball bearings to support the shaft.
In the end though, it's easier to bolt a piece of material (in this case a piece of phenolic) to the bracket, and just use an end mill in the chuck to drill a hole in situ, so that the support is perfectly centered.
(https://dsm01pap002files.storage.live.com/y4mUP1_wwQxDHQsW20BrGaMd4zm5qV3LDUsxqeksIFF_sLNC38uiNhUmcwW5pb7-M4B9wVM8fSC32AiqqT2wT9aSBCbJSFr-KVXeukXP5wH1wTZOLg3DfMqG3xEw_tSioZASWVzb383ICRZCx4b5WJBqG0EUdeXW9WaGIwuMu8lQ11_SPnQSFKAY0LUD4bpznFk?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none)
(https://dsm01pap002files.storage.live.com/y4mQQIq1aV1hPiMYC1NciMV0vrm3Icw5dDbAHEbrV6rXqH4B-NWxezF7l3Tdx5CUyZYZvxpum9crGOtVP6fATfy2OfoDgW_1Xo4-oIyOi66lP_xMSVFlovmUwkOuZK-7pOs65DKW2zWxU0fJpd04BmvAf5QWmZ-Tq2TD_opF_f3_NZjKXiEadhsLZn9R8BRAhI_?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none)
It's then very easy to position the cutting tool close to the support for whatever work you need to do.
(https://dsm01pap002files.storage.live.com/y4m2EuER1RDJI1hVpuHcOYcgjnBl1T7vGMsLV5NdKZIk43c8dwFyHaiZACy3f2zqPVzJbeo3Rk0fJb-ABq-DnFj8Y7vrXswusLenNYNo2n20vkBcLAoixvcfyJBv7-FxGvRu36NhJ0tV6VGexB7QpUdWxSM8BbixvgkPpjAkUrTO5CkYBSN1FKqSPUEXaCeuCI3?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none)
I used the "upside down tool" approach for single point threading, so that the cutting tool moves away from the headstock.
(https://dsm01pap002files.storage.live.com/y4moiQSntPbn8aNOFCkPmd7InAC_ZFejGZqSA-xVROkV3l8JWQ1NfFGiZpUZBrAq_bNmMj00aQ8Z-0MHgpMO3k3xopmUyaNGK3zHbB4v5bJ5_GNRbmkglblcWE65X8W0D4EJ3oWDdOVHT417IyDSpqt-5rKt4CUbQwqtytkHlzHhm2_4wPCUoF_VrU16dH11xBW?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none)
And it works a treat.
(https://dsm01pap002files.storage.live.com/y4mMmT8bY0w0YLZbBWUKNvu-F1qaP1oYUXvkJb2C6AC2LZBbLGaxPbmpLvKxNJ1ScHmynC_mDOATiMavuaYBirHh9D54jfvOuPGaEP26z8lrHmU60Uzp06yDq56D42osRALkmJzuQBmr2ZuwULxPG1_-acsld7Y1fDq-1lq5rBe6kEn4GJ2vbJtOVpCGrdaimvI?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none)
(https://dsm01pap002files.storage.live.com/y4mLtXsFqo4eIl9lijjwo8Ck1mKSphzLOSym6ziRZx6YwbDCOfu3R9u5245DeXyi3-4HTLJCr2NvyyT6f1WfRIuWTCO-98qLy6C6s4JCXR2ta7gk3ycmfIYE2F9paL2wTVvmJOweMGvch_YdDzSE_qbNTiHqq21gw18GqtUf5YwkEZmJYi5II79IMfrthlhVG7b?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none)
So I'm well pleased with that - no need for expensive dies for cutting small threads. Just as well, because the cheap dies are awful, I have had no luck with them at all - a waste of money. But this follow rest approach works really well.
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That's a pretty slick little follower rest! And easy to make whatever size you need too :)
Kim
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Brilliant follower rest mod! :ThumbsUp:
Eric
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Thank you - yes - very happy with this.
Shame I went and trashed my brass eccentric rod during test assembly. :facepalm2:
Never mind - quick enough to make another one now. :embarassed:
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Very nifty arrangement, and it resulted in a tidy job!
Commiserations on the mishap, but it sounds like you'll get over it quickly.
:ThumbsUp:
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Clever! I assume the rest moves with the carriage? I really like that - need to make one for my lathe...
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Stuart-
I love that mini chuck. That is the cat’s ass. I will definitely be using that idea one day. You are doing a great job on this engine.
-Bob
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Very intuitive Prop..... :ThumbsUp:
:cheers:
Don
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Joe is a very smart guy and great resource. Nice adaption of his follow rest.
Dave
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Thank you all!
Chris - yes this follows the lathe carriage, and is bolted to it.
Joe is the "real deal" in my opinion. Not just an internet amateur, an accomplished machinist that makes parts for a living - and successfully. I like his approach, which is one of "hitting the numbers" - shows real shop techniques and explains how they can be used by the amateur. His is the only actual informative channel I've found that is of any real use.
Thanks again all, more progress soon I hope. I have to finish a sidecar wiring project today, but I'm very pleased with this small diameter threading result, so it's going to give me the encouragement to get on with the last few components very soon.
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I love your follower rest for small diameter work! I'll definitely make one of these for myself and it would really come in hand on occasion!
Mike
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Joe is the "real deal" in my opinion. Not just an internet amateur...
Oi mate! Wot you sayin'?!
We ain't 'internet amateurs'. We're 'online rookies'!
Well, some of us, anyway... :ROFL:
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Ha - I should choose my words with more care. I was really referring to the dearth of youtubers who project themselves as experts with their video “tutorials”, but who are really just novices.
I find the interactions on this forum a lot more fulfilling, because there is back and forth discussion and idea sharing.
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No problem Stuart - was just bantering with ya. :)
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :LittleDevil:
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Back at it. Sort of. I have been spending most of my "me" time rebuilding a motorcycle, so that I could sell it. That has been done, and I now have a nice influx of tooling as a result, which I will get to over time. Today, I made the 4 off 5-40 brass nuts for this engine. Not exactly thrilling stuff, but I put my new mini chuck to use, and it worked a treat. Not very complex so I'm not going to waste your time with a blow by blow account, but here they are with the mini chuck in use
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-kksCrDh/0/e12cce9c/L/IMG_6220%20%28Large%29-L.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-kksCrDh/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-D5jLtKn/0/5d81dd74/L/IMG_6221%20%28Large%29-L.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-D5jLtKn/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-LxgcfTF/0/3f57e04b/L/IMG_6223%20%28Large%29-L.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-LxgcfTF/A)
That little chuck is going to be exceptionally useful over time.
Two "whoops" moments today. The first was sweeping my precious nuts off the bench onto the floor. Happily found my nuts again though.
The second had me turning the air blue.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-mJnx37t/0/ee3ca57c/L/IMG_6224%20%28Large%29-L.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-mJnx37t/A)
I'm not going to tell you how I broke my little end. I was being stupid, that's all that matters. I plan to make a replacement out of bar stock. More on that in due course. For the time being, I'm satisfied with my nuts, although I should probably stop playing with them and get on with something else.
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Ouch! sorry about the rod, could you silver solder it back together?
Dave
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Interesting idea - I think I’ll try that. Nothing to lose at this point.
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Ouch! That's no fun! Definitely give Dave's soldering suggestion a go. It's Certainly worth a try!
Kim
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Yes, that moment of inattention which we can all fall victim to.
Commiserations!
At least no fingers were involved though...
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If the fastener is plain alloy steel you could "rust it away" with salt water and vinegar. Assuming it broke off in the rod.
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Thanks for the suggestion, but the fastener is not an issue.
Alas, the little end is distorted and beyond repair by silver soldering - I’m going to make a new connecting rod.
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Continuing the
saga fiasco :facepalm: that is this engine, with it's many re made parts, I got some more time on it today. I was going to re make the connecting rod out of bar stock, and figured out an intricate sequence to machine it without marking out, using a rotary table to make various rounded features. I'm pretty sure that would have (or could have) worked, but on a whim I called PM Research and discovered the price of a new casting was six dollars. With brass bar being close to the value of gold, or so it seems, I bought the replacement part. I was pleased to discover that PM Research have been so busy they have had to add more staff just to deal with orders. The nice lady I spoke to was very new, and I was her first foray into supplying spare parts. In the background I heard one of the main people there assuring her that "lot's of people need to buy replacement part one offs". I suppose that reassured me a bit also.
Anyway, here is a sequence of pictures for the sake of it. Made much the same as the last one, although I hope to get the split line in the right place this time.
I have learned to spend a fair amount of time measuring castings and understanding the starting part, so as to think through where the stock is on the part, and understand whether the starting part is symmetrical, or how it relates to the finished part. After that I drew up a machining plan. So first step was getting the thickness of the bosses to size, which involved taking slightly more off one side over the other to try and keep the bolt bosses central.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-WT3cDfs/0/92d52944/XL/IMG_7480%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-WT3cDfs/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-LwQspVv/0/dbce9431/XL/IMG_7481%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-LwQspVv/A)
I then set up a knee (angle plate - we call them knees at work, and I quite enjoy using that term) to hold the part for drilling and tapping the bolt bosses. I aligned it by touching off on the tops and sides of each bolt boss, and tweaking it until they were evened out.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-L9V6dr3/0/61d5a833/XL/IMG_6246%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-L9V6dr3/A)
I machined off some of the gate feature - but not all of it. This is a qualifying surface - i.e. one I can use to register in later operations, knowing it is perpendicular to the axis of the part. I also cleaned the tops of the bolt bosses.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-HgCF77f/0/3bd8cbd2/XL/IMG_6247%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-HgCF77f/A)
Having done that, I established the center of the part by touching off on the sides in both X and Y directions. I spotted the qualified surface just in case that might be useful later on. Then drilled and tapped the bolt holes.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-JWFtQv2/0/0d77bff0/XL/IMG_6248%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-JWFtQv2/A)
Then I set up an aluminum jig plate that I had used previously to hold the bed casting (sole plate?). I used this piece of aluminium because I had fly cut it previously on both sides, and I knew it was flat and parallel, and also preferred over drilling into the mill table. I suppose I could have used this in the first place and drilled the holes in the part in the same set up as milling the thicknesses. Oh well.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-xqqC22J/0/1084f4ab/XL/IMG_6249%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-xqqC22J/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-GHSvPhg/0/4c7a235b/XL/IMG_6250%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-GHSvPhg/A)
Here I am using the qualified surface to verify squareness to the X and Y axes.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-x5TzQf3/0/92f9c103/XL/IMG_6251%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-x5TzQf3/A)
I used a gauge pin to center the little end under the spindle - just done visually to get the zero point.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-gLmgH7f/0/6ef5c902/XL/IMG_6252%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-gLmgH7f/A)
After that I lightly marked the center of the little and big ends, and performed a quick measurement of the big end to be sure I was central.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-F7rvxK8/0/88a5d366/XL/IMG_6253%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-F7rvxK8/A)
After drilling and reaming the two holes, I was pleased to find that a .250 gauge pin would slide in, but a .251 gauge pin would not.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-RSRg6H5/0/952bb8d0/XL/IMG_6254%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-RSRg6H5/A)
Note: I checked the little end using the actual wrist pin as well, in case I needed to ream slightly over to fit that, but it fit perfectly. Also - the final hole size in the big end will be .375. I have a .25 hole in there right now to aid in set up for slitting the big end. After that is done, and the caps milled to size, then the end cap will be attached and the hole opened up to .375. I probably don't need the .25 hole in place, but I think it may help visually, plus I can touch off on a gauge pin inserted in it when setting up the slitting operation. This is the part I got wrong before (aside from breaking the thing being foolish later on). So - getting there. But that's all for today.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-KCgfnCX/0/c515fcad/XL/IMG_6256%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-KCgfnCX/A)
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Lookin' good, Stuart. Glad you're back on track! :ThumbsUp:
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Nice work, Stuart! It's great that you were able to get a replacement casting at such a reasonable price. Not every place seems to do that!
Kim
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PMR are really decent on that. Their stuff is high quality overall too.
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Congratulations on getting the connecting rod replaced and getting back on track again Stuart. And only $6 too!
:ThumbsUp:
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Thanks guys for following along. I made some more progress today - and I'm happy to report it really is progress. Fair warning - far more pictures than necessary to describe a simple part, but I was enjoying myself.
Continuing with my step by step second go at the connecting rod, I got it set up on a 2-4-6 block held in the vise to get ready for slitting.
My reference surface was used to indicate the part and get it square for the cutting operation.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-WxSqq6W/0/1925da9c/XL/IMG_6257%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-WxSqq6W/A)
Side view shows a piece of the old broken connecting rod being used to pack the upper clamp to stop it twisting off the small clamping surface of the new connecting rod. The gauge pin was used to make sure the pilot hole was above the surface of the 2-4-6 block, in readiness for measurement later.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-PdWPSpG/0/259ffb10/XL/IMG_6258%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-PdWPSpG/A)
The gauge pin was also used to locate the slitting saw. I used a piece of paper to feel for a light drag between pin and saw to know I was very close to top of the hole. From that I could easily set the saw height to be right in the middle of the slot of stock material that needs to come out.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-zQ3m6DV/0/1a122681/XL/IMG_6261%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-zQ3m6DV/A)
Part way through slitting. Remember that the hole is undersize significantly - it is only a reference at this point, which is why the slot looks way off. This is a 1/4" hole, and will be drilled and reamed 3/8" later. After slitting, the top of the connecting rod at the slit, once cleaned up, should pass right through the center of the hole. The slitting saw is 1/32" thick, and the total material to be removed is 1/8", which is why the slot appears above centerline in this picture.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Pz4Spc5/0/ceff2b47/XL/IMG_6262%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Pz4Spc5/A)
Slit complete
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Nh38Wj7/0/38d721db/XL/IMG_6263%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Nh38Wj7/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-8xzDXQS/0/3c25862b/XL/IMG_6264%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-8xzDXQS/A)
Cleaning up. To understand end mill height, I used a feeler gauge between the end mill and a gauge pin in the partial hole to set the tool height (because it is too easy to chip a carbide tool setting it directly on the gauge pin).
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-8Qphj2r/0/368ed52e/XL/IMG_6265%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-8Qphj2r/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-JHB4jRc/0/b00f352c/XL/IMG_6266%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-JHB4jRc/A)
Gauge pin in place just to show that the finished surface is right on the centerline of the hole.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-wxgd5fq/0/afaea285/XL/IMG_6268%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-wxgd5fq/A)
Then added the oil hole while in this set up.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-pdVkSWW/0/6c44ce7b/XL/IMG_6269%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-pdVkSWW/A)
On to the end cap. Similar approach. The remaining amount of pilot hole is used to establish height. The reference surface I set up earlier on provides a very convenient locating surface to get the part square by sitting it on a parallel.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-wDzsrf6/0/32257e67/XL/IMG_6270%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-wDzsrf6/A)
Again - setting tool height using a feeler gauge.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-dX4GBjQ/0/6f48e94e/XL/IMG_6271%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-dX4GBjQ/A)
This is part way through cleaning up the mating surface. See how the hole just disappears on the final milling step - which is exactly correct. Means I nailed the height setting.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-GfSg7zB/0/b8df7047/XL/IMG_6272%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-GfSg7zB/A)
You can see only the chamfers remain - so I got this right on.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-9nkWswf/0/f876917a/XL/IMG_6273%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-9nkWswf/A)
Now clamp it to the connecting rod:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-GNffkQF/0/c50b3cbd/XL/IMG_6274%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-GNffkQF/A)
Set it up to drill and tap the oil cup hole. Reference surface again comes in handy.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-zRW4KMF/0/ac6a2e11/XL/IMG_6276%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-zRW4KMF/A)
And again, getting set up for the final big end hole drill and ream op.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-vXzvST3/0/c5323a97/XL/IMG_6277%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-vXzvST3/A)
After locating the small end hole using a gauge pin and indicator, I lightly spot faced the big end to make sure that visually the spot face was centered.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-G56MMvM/0/ee11aab9/XL/IMG_6278%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-G56MMvM/A)
After that I plunge milled out the half hole, and drilled and reamed the hole to 3/8". I guess I finally got bored of taking pictures because there aren't any more, until after test assembly of the connecting rod in the engine. I didn't take any pictures of slitting the little end either, which was a pretty straightforward job.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-v66X7TD/0/94d657ae/XL/IMG_6279%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-v66X7TD/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-9cB8DjC/0/3a706a77/XL/IMG_6280%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-9cB8DjC/A)
Happily, fits really well. The engine has the piston installed, and I can turn the engine over turning the crankshaft with my fingers, so this gives me hope - but at the same time it is not loose and sloppy.
So, finally getting the engine further along.
I enjoyed todays efforts. I take a lot of satisfaction in making parts by indicating features to locate them in space, as opposed to marking out. It's just an approach I like to take, I don't consider it superior to other methods or anything like that, it simply gives me satisfaction.
Anyway, it's time to get serious. I want the flywheel to be the last item made, so now it's time to make gaskets and oil cups, then it will be the flywheel, and then assembly and test.
But now it's Saturday night.
:wine1:
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Great progress Stuart!
Dave
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Hey Stuart - nothing wrong with a bunch of pictures! The more the better as far as I'm concerned...
Nice work, resulting in some good progress!
And your Saturday night begins as mine draws to a close...
Enjoy! :cheers:
gary
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I had some fun today making these fiddly little fellows - oil cups. I ground a 45 degree chamfer tool which made short work of these. Not much to them really, although drilling the little through hole takes some care. Otherwise pretty simple - but being so small I am rather pleased with the result.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-HpCT9dz/0/03979426/XL/IMG_7573%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-HpCT9dz/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-4p32qrJ/0/dba93e75/XL/IMG_7575%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-4p32qrJ/A)
The inside finish isn't the best - maybe the drill wasn't in the best shape.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-zkh9nWz/0/f9062b18/XL/IMG_7574%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-zkh9nWz/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-k2NVt2d/0/fef0998d/XL/IMG_7577%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-k2NVt2d/A)
Still not too shabby and they look the part well enough.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-WRj2pBp/0/861ec7a4/XL/IMG_7578%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-WRj2pBp/A)
Not many parts left now. I need to form up the eccentric connecting rod, then it's time for the flywheel, then assembly and test.
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Those are some mighty cute little oilers, Stuart! Very nice!
Kim
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The inside finish isn't the best - maybe the drill wasn't in the best shape.
The oil won't care. :cheers:
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Thanks chaps. Slightly rough hole lower extremity aside, I was pleased that a) I didn’t drill the cup ID too deep, b) I didn’t break off the small drill, c) the small drill went out through the end of the 2-56 portion, not the side and d) I don’t have to make any a second time. So overall - satisfying. Plus my home made cutting tool worked.
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Nicely done!
Dave
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Not only very nice, but absolutely a functional need in the build.....I see 5 x stationary cups & 1 x semi-rotational cup
I needed to check, however we see #60 = 0.04 mm or .016"
Many builders of 5" gauge engines in our Group use Steam oil for general lubrication, especially in hot areas.......do you have any intended preference?
Derek....
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Hello Derek! Thank you for looking in. A number 60 drill is actually 0.04”. Based on advice of someone who built this engine, I actually went to a smaller size to reduce the oil feed rate. I ended up using a .02” drill.
For oil in use I was also thinking steam oil, which seems like it should feed reasonably well. I can’t wait to find out actually.
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Apologies Stuart :Doh:........
I simply copied & pasted a listing ....[without thinking] & saw 0.016" [sixteen thousands] and thought this would be OK for light lubrication oil, however obviously quite a bit of trial & checking will be required, to see how fast the oil is consumed via the 0.02" oriface :toilet_claw:
My greatest fear :old: is always that insufficient oil is available to the journal surfaces
So following on.......Derek
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Good point Derek. I'll be watching carefully during testing to make sure oil does actually feed properly.
In the meantime though, todays shednanigans - time for the flywheel. I spent a good half hour first filing off some of the sharp parting lines on the spokes and rim ID, and just generally smoothing it out and cleaning it up. My chosen approach for machining sequence was to mount it on a faceplate, but stood off from the faceplate on some aluminum spacers - 3 of them - around the rim. I set that all up on the bench, and measured the clearance between the backside of the hub and the faceplate, and machined an aluminum support block to fit snugly in there, so as to not spring the hub when making the bore. As you can see, the spokes are quite spindly.
During set up I also measured the flywheel and the gap behind the rim in multiple places, to make sure the casting was sitting fairly parallel to the faceplate. Although there is plenty of stock I don't want it mounted at an angle, resulting in a thin rim in places or something weird. Then I transferred the set up to the lathe, where I tried to center the ID of the rim and the OD of the hub by eye, using a pointer.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-W63hP5X/0/dc478c97/XL/IMG_6282%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-W63hP5X/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-cFfkxh3/0/fd957a1f/XL/IMG_6283%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-cFfkxh3/A)
The idea is to try and keep cast features concentric so that things don't look completely out of whack when operating. In the end, it turns out that the opposite sides of the casting were mis matched, and there was a flat spot on the rim, so I could only do so much to keep the as cast features running true - but I at least balanced it as best as I could.
Then I took my time to make sure that I could actually get tools in where they needed to go.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Tmdkjdv/0/14322143/XL/IMG_6287%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-Tmdkjdv/A)
I wasn't planning to turn the OD of the hub - but made sure I had the option available.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-b44KrCf/0/962c737b/XL/IMG_6288%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-b44KrCf/A)
Setting up to make sure I could run the tool completely off the rim:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-KD7pG2n/0/5692d65d/XL/IMG_6289%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-KD7pG2n/A)
It all worked like a charm, and went without drama. I ran the lathe in back gear at 50 rpm, so as not to risk my set up, but it was completely solid. No singing, ringing or squealing from the part during machining - it went very well indeed.
I did find a couple of casting voids in the rim. I elected not to remove them all the way.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-tsvjvZn/0/6e33992c/XL/IMG_6290%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-tsvjvZn/A)
The bore was made by drilling with 4 different sizes of drill to remove most of the material. Then I changed over to a boring tool to take out about 25 thou. My thinking here is that this gives a better chance of making the hole concentric and parallel to the axis of the rim - a drill might have wandered a bit. When there was only 0.008" left to go, I changed over to a chucking reamer to finish the hole.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-JXsnvGR/0/65e5c5b0/XL/IMG_6291%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-JXsnvGR/A)
Checking the bore along the way with gauge pins. Exceptionally versatile tools - I am so glad I purchased a set.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-QpGHj3d/0/793f2210/XL/IMG_6292%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-QpGHj3d/A)
Final check after reaming - a 375 minus pin slips in, a 376 does not. Perfect!
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-vBhwNq6/0/9c165584/XL/IMG_6293%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-vBhwNq6/A)
I did not take pictures of the second side - but all that happened there was in essence the same as the first side, the only difference being that I clamped the machined surface of the rim directly to the face plate, and then trued the part up by clocking on the machined outer diameter of the rim.
Once that was complete I transferred to the mill for the locking screw feature - which is a tapped hole through the hub at 15°. For that I set up and angle plate at 15°, which was established using an angle slip gauge to the milling table.
Here I have the flywheel clamped to the angle plate at the hub. Set up is not yet complete, but I ran out of energy somewhat, and besides it's time to get supper going.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-64ZM49Q/0/ba26b0d7/XL/IMG_6294%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-64ZM49Q/A)
So tomorrow I hope to finish clamping the flywheel, then get the upright spoke as close to upright as possible. Then I'll find the center of the wheel, mill a flat in the hub, and drill and tap the screw hole. And that will be that.
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Nicely done, cast flywheels can be a nerve wracking thing to turn, great setup!
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Thanks Chris. The more I think about these set ups before actually doing them, the better they turn out. This one was drama free and I'm very pleased with the result.
Well, bit of an update. I drilled the locking screw hole in the flywheel. Spot faced first, then center drilled, then the tap drill. I have this nice ER11 collet holder which lets me get in to tight spaces such as this, and makes the drilling and tapping a breeze. Much better concentricity than a pin vise style holder.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-djWjg9q/0/7b51b382/X2/IMG_6295%20%28Medium%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-djWjg9q/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-XFMxDkQ/0/81b6617d/X2/IMG_6296%20%28Medium%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-XFMxDkQ/A)
Couldn't use a tap holder, so I just used the ER11 set up to hold the tap. Disengaged the gears and turned it by hand.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-9dgbHC5/0/622882df/X2/IMG_6297%20%28Medium%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-9dgbHC5/A)
I then spent some time doing some assembly. This is what I have so far.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-xtmvMjc/0/f1830ba2/XL/IMG_6300%20%28Medium%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-xtmvMjc/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-zcp2GMW/0/fedc3877/XL/IMG_6301%20%28Medium%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-zcp2GMW/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-qjkdb85/0/7f125c83/XL/IMG_6302%20%28Medium%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-qjkdb85/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-k4r84Hx/0/d862a4b2/XL/IMG_7604%20%28Medium%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-k4r84Hx/A)
I got this far, and was having trouble getting the steam chest cover screws in, and also the screws for the valve rod gland. Not too surprising, since I hadn't tapped them yet. :embarassed:
Still, I was able to manually turn everything over, and there are a couple of areas that would benefit from some tweaking, so I will strip it all down and address those items, and maybe next weekend I'll be able to give it its first test on air. :ThumbsUp:
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Looks like you're very close to a runner - nice result so far :ThumbsUp:
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Thank you! Yes, I certainly hope so. Very excited to do the last it of fettling and finishing and give it a try.
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Lovely work, Stuart, and excellent progress.
The engine is shaping up to be a beauty!
:ThumbsUp:
gary
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Your engine is looking very nice Stuart!
Dave
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Thank you all, I appreciate the positive comments.
I tapped the remaining holes, and reassembled today. After spending a little time setting up the timing carefully, I attached a compressed air line and the engine took off immediately without me having to touch it! You can imagine that I was quite delighted at that. Here is a little video I shot to show it running. I am pleased. It is far from perfect, but it runs quite well. It is worth going the extra distance to now strip it and paint it, and make a base of some sort for it, but otherwise I consider it complete and shall move on to another project.
It runs well at about 12 psi. 10 psi is getting on the edge, and below that it stalls.
[youtube1]https://youtu.be/12aUoIRIm9c[/youtube1]
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Excellent :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Andy
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Thats terrific - always a very pleasant feeling when it takes off the first time! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
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Well done, Stuart. Congratulations! :cheers:
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Congratulations - time for a happy dance :cheers:
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Thank you all! Yes - very pleased. :cartwheel:
I would like it to run a bit slower, but I think it has some air leakage past the valve in the steam chest. I made the slots in the cylinder too wide and the valve only just covers them. I have a feeling that if I made a new, wider valve that might help it run even slower. Don't know that I will do that. I think I would rather paint this and move on to a new project, and try and make a more refined engine. All that aside, I'm nevertheless very pleased with this. Thank you all for your kind words.
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Nice job overall, propforward. :cheers:
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Late to the party here, but I've been out without internet for most of the last week (if you can believe it! :o).
Great runner, Stuart! And great video.
You should feel quite proud of that accomplishment!
Kim
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Thanks Kim and bent - very much appreciated. Always a good feeling when an engine runs.
Kim, glad your internet is back! First world problem perhaps, but aggravating nonetheless.
I’m going to strip the engine for painting this weekend, and I think I will make a new valve out of bar stock, and see if I can get it to run just a little slower. Not a big deal but that would be rewarding.
I’m thinking RAF roundel blue should look decent.
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Kim, glad your internet is back! First world problem perhaps, but aggravating nonetheless.
Well, I was actually out camping and there was no cell service, thus, no internet. So, don't feel too sorry for me! I had a great time :)
I’m thinking RAF roundel blue should look decent.
Sounds like a great color to me! :ThumbsUp:
Kim
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Hi Stewart, a great looking engine will look even better painted.
Good idea to make that new valve while the paint is drying. Apart from the width, it might be worth having a good look at the length ass well, just to make sure it is correct for the actual distance between the port edges.
It is probably ok, but I know I used the milling cutter I had for the Bolton engine. This required a corresponding adjustment to the valve length to get correct lap. Might as well make it as few times as possible.
MJM460
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That's a solid point, and one I hadn't thought of. I'll measure the port sizes and spacings when I have it apart and correct it as needed. If I make it a bit long I can always shave it down - they still haven't invented a reverse milling cutter that puts the metal back when going too short.
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- they still haven't invented a reverse milling cutter that puts the metal back when going too short.
You silver solder a piece of bronze on the underside of the valve across in the over length end of the pocket and re-machine the pocket to the correct dimension ;) :-X
Jo
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Ah I may not have explained my error correctly. The problem is that the ports in the steam chest are too wide, almost coincidentally wide as the valve casting. That said, your idea of silver soldering extra material on could still work, by adding strips to the edge of the valve. I would get to use a blow torch that way. I would have to ensure the joint was fully filled, and then do a light skim to get everything properly flat but potentially could work.
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I might actually try that, because if nothing else it would be an interesting exercise. I also just bought some silicon bronze TIG filler rod - I may have a try at building up the edge and see if I can recover that way - again it will be all for the fun and experience of it - it's kind of no loss at this point. Making a new valve from stock should not be that difficult if I destroy the current valve with my Machiavellian schemes. The valve is one of the few parts I managed to make to print, so I should be able to make another one. :D
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Hi Stewart, building up the valve sounds like a lot of work that will not save you anything of what is required to re-machine the valve. Much easier to just start from a piece of bronze.
I did manage to make the valve for the Bolton from the casting supplied but two previous slide valve engines I just made the valve from bronze bar.
However, building up the valve might be a useful skill to have for the inevitable future slip up on a larger part on which you have spent a large number of hours before the slip, or one much more expensive to obtain replacement part or material.
MJM460
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You're right on all counts - building up the edge is not really the best solution, only something to try for the interest factor. Most likely scenario is that I will blow a big hole in the part if I try it, but since I'm basically on a path of making a new part, the bit of time playing with the arc to see what happens is more for interest factor than anything else, plus the possibilities of future repairs on more appropriate parts.
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If you do try it I would be interested to know how you do. (given it being a small thing, might make sense to clamp to a heat sink like a copper bar first)
Martin.
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It's a research project now!
That's it, I'm doing it. Look for an update - whatever the result - on saturday evening Minnesota time.
Disclaimer - I have about 4 hours of hood time to my name. Don't expect too much. :ROFL:
Good point on the heat sink, I'd say that's a must. :ThumbsUp:
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Will be interesting to see how that goes. Goes well, or goes through the side and out to the scrap bin!
For the air leakage issue in general, be sure that there is enough 'slop' in the slots to just allow the valve to move on the valve rod and the adjusting nut - if it binds on either, it wont be able to pivot as needed and seat properly on the valve face. You want it just loose enough to be able to slide off the rod/nut, but not so loose that it rattles around. Also, did you lap the faces a bit to allow a good seal?
Even if one of those things is the real issue, the fattening up of the valve is still a very worthwhile experiment.
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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"It's a research project now!" Yes!
4 hours of hood time? Wow, you are an expert welder compared to me. Actually, I have about 8 hrs. in, but 4 of them were repairing/re-doing the welds I made in the first 4 hours...sigh. :embarassed:
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Excellent work, Stuart.
Just subscribed to your youtube channel. :)
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I saw that! Thank you Gary, and thanks for looking in.
I have been pillar to post for the last month - all good stuff happily, but I still haven’t got to try my little TIG brazing R and D project.
I did acquire a new welding table though.
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Great project, Stuart, and excellent workmanship as well. Looking forward to seeing how your experiment goes.
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Thanks Terry!
One of the other reasons for the experiment is that I am curious to see if I can control the metal build up well enough to consider TIG brazing as a means for boiler construction. Might be easier than trying to flow a whole bunch if tubes in one go.
Or it might be significantly more difficult. Worth a try though.
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Well OK then. The experiment was not a dismal failure, even if not a complete success.
The valve started thus
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-pnf9ZTr/0/d58b5d6f/X2/IMG_8328%20%28Large%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-pnf9ZTr/A)
I filed the edges to be built up to get them clean, and degreased the part in acetone, then set it up on my weld table in a clamp.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-3c9trGb/0/71097d09/X2/IMG_8329%20%28Large%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-3c9trGb/A)
Showing the part the business end of my TIG torch. This is a 3/32 electrode, and a 1/16" would have been more appropriate.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-ZjxpXjL/0/7fbbdcc5/X2/IMG_8330%20%28Large%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-ZjxpXjL/A)
Anyway, as blobby as it looks I did manage to build up the edges with some silicon bronze.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-MrPkN7G/0/2a404f18/X2/IMG_8334%20%28Large%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-MrPkN7G/A)
After some initial machining and clean up, I ascertained that the silicon bronze was properly bonded to the part, and it actually machined well.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-kdJjmG6/0/9207afe0/X2/IMG_8470%20%28Large%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-kdJjmG6/A)
However, I had not built up the edge quite enough, so after clean up and machining I only gained a small amount on each side. At this point I decided I had put enough time into this. Overall the concept showed signs of success, and I managed to build up the tiny part without completely melting it, so I'm pleased with that - but now I'm just going to move on with life and make a new valve.
Here it is so far:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-xTwL5JV/0/d9e28f28/X2/IMG_8468%20%28Large%29-X2.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-xTwL5JV/A)
A simple part really, I'll finish it tomorrow.
I have also been painting the engine - I degreased everything in isopropyl alcohol in a cheap ultrasonic bath, then primed with automotive primer, and let cure overnight.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-wJGJz7z/0/10f21f70/XL/IMG_8409%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-wJGJz7z/A)
And then made use of my scale model spray booth to paint it, using a tin of RAF roundel blue enamel paint that I've had since about 1996 or something.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-WfrHXrQ/0/5dc39fe5/XL/IMG_8417%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-WfrHXrQ/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-zpQpXnR/0/a46a8aa1/XL/IMG_8418%20%28Large%29-XL.jpg) (https://propforward.smugmug.com/Steam-Engines/PM-Research-1/i-zpQpXnR/A)
It's perhaps a little brighter than I intended, but overall I quite like it.
So - more progress. I have to figure out a base yet, haven't decided what to do for that.
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Great progress Stuart. Looking good.
Not long to go now...
:ThumbsUp:
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Hi Stewart, nice work on building up a small part. Shows considerable skill. But I can understand why it might be better to start again on a relatively simple part instead of having a second go. An interesting experiment which will have helped develop your technique.
The paint work and colour look good.
MJM460
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It's good to see you back at your project Stuart.
I think the paint color looks good. It might not seem so bright to you once you assemble the engine.
Jim
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Nice work Stuart, the blue colour looks good
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Thanks all, here it is assembled with the new valve. It does run better than before - although perhaps not by much. It has a heck of a knock. not sure where that is. Seems like as the crank reaches and turns past top dead center there is a sort of "notch" to it. Almost like the piston is obstructed from going to max travel, but I can't find anything obstructing it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suQPiO8-kmY
Anyway, I'm pleased with the colour, and it all fit together, and it runs. It's on the bench chuffing along now, and seems like it is running smoother with some time on it.
In any case, that's it for this engine, other than a base. I'll take what I learned and move on to another, with the plan of taking what I learned and making a better one next time. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
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Stuart, excellent work and I love the blue color! Great job!
I built the same engine a year or 2 ago and I might make a couple of suggestions on the knock you hear. I'd check the con-rod to crank fit just to make sure it's good. But I think it's more likely that you've slide valve timing is off just a bit. I'd try playing with the timing adjustment on the eccentric and in particular try advancing it a bit. Early admission of the air/stream will tend to 'cushion' the piston travel a bit and might quiet it down and make it run a bit smoother.
Anyway, I hope that helps and again, great work!
Mike
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:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :cheers: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
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Thank you both!
Mike I just tried what you suggested, and that helped a lot. Also - the knock is being accentuated by the fact the engine is sitting on the bench, I just lifted the block up and sat it on a couple of pieces of rubber sheet and it is way quieter, but it runs slower and at lower pressure now I adjusted the timing. I think the notch I feel is being caused by the crankshaft, which is not straight. It moved when I released the central web support when machining it, and I think that is the culprit, it binds as it goes top and bottom dead center - just a little bit.
Anyway, with that improved running I'm much happier. When I get it on a display base I'll shoot one more showcase vid.
Thanks so much for the input and comments! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
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OK, one more and done until the showcase. :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_fkghSZOnA
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It certainly sounds better to me and it seems to run smoother. The 'chuffs' are more even now.
Great job!
Mike
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Awesome ……. :ThumbsUp:
:cheers:
Don
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That's a beautiful engine, Stuart!
Lovely runner. And I like the blue color. Very nice.
Kim
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Congratulations Stuart. Beautiful engine & runner. I enjoyed following along. What’s next?
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Thanks all, very much appreciate your kind comments.
Well, next up is a sort of refrubishment of my lathe. I want to beef up the cabinets it is sitting on, replace the spindle and other bearings with higher quality American made bearings, re route the coolant hose and add a DRO. DRO arrives today! So that will be a fairly major project - I have two pieces of 1" thick steel plate to put on top of the cabinets and give it a firmer surface to sit on - hopefully take the "bounce" out.
In parallel with that, I'm planning to start this:
(https://www.pmmodelengines.com/v1/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/STEAM-ENGINE-4-500x426.jpg)
A PM Research number 4 - a bit of a bigger beastie. 1-1/2" bore, 2-12/" stroke. It's not a very "fancy" looking engine in a lot of ways, but is a decent size so should look impressive. I've read a few build logs that give me some good insight in how to proceed. :ThumbsUp:
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Oh wow.... that PMR is a beauty! I look forward to following your build log on that, not least because I have the castings for the #6 as yet untouched.
Also the lathe upgrade sounds great.
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Nicely done Stuart!
She looks and runs real nice.
Dave
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Some video footage from today, running on live steam. I was loaned an electric boiler, which was originally used on an autoclave for sterilizing medical instruments. Anyway, plenty of capacity for this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC-4Nzc0ffE
The slower running happens in the final third of the video. The engine doesn't run very slow, but I'm happy with it. So much more fun running on steam!
Anyway, there we are, now to blow it out and oil it thoroughly.
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Thanks for sharing this, very entertaining running on steam.
It sure is a good runner, and quite striking in blue.
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Great video! It is really fun watching it run on steam! :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
Kim
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Thanks guys - really enjoyed this today. Steam everywhere, lovely sound, and that smell of hot steam oil! Great fun. The video is a bit long, but I was having fun.
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As mentioned - it has a very nice and realistic speed / apperance in the later part of the Video :ThumbsUp:
You should be very happy with this - good that you had fun running it on steam :cheers:
Per
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Wow!
Great to see the engine running on steam, as a steam engine is supposed to.
Excellent job Stuart.
:ThumbsUp:
gary
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I set up my trusty old PMR #3bi next to the video of the PM1 and tried to match piston cycles & crosshead movement & flywheel & eccentric revs.
I know PMR#3 & PMR#1 are like apples & oranges in size.
But, with my cheap laser Tach I came up with 525 rpm at beginning of video, and 275 rpm at slow speed at the end.
This is plus or minus a bit.
Does this sound about right?
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Hi Ted,
I haven't attempted to count revs yet. I want to fire it up one more time later this week, so I'll make a rough count then. You're probably not far off. There are a couple of flaws in this engine, one causes a leak path for the steam, the other makes it bind a bit (and knock as a result), so consequently it doesn't run as slowly as I'd like. I can fix it by making new parts (one of which would be a whole new cylinder - I did get a replacement casting a long while ago), but at this point it's really good enough, I'll apply what I learned on this to new engines which I hope and believe will run better. Still fun to see it ticking along, even if it isn't perfect.
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Nice, good job! :popcorn:
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Thank you sir! Going to steam it again tomorrow.
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The PM1 ought to acquire wee bit of steam patina after tomorrow.
Good for you, have fun!
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Steamed it up again yesterday for about an hour, and ran it at various speeds. The slowest it ran was about 50rpm. Seems like with some time on it, it has run in a bit and runs a bit smoother.
That's it for this engine, other than making some kind of better base for it, so I may yet subject you all to one more post once I've done that.
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...
That's it for this engine, other than making some kind of better base for it, so I may yet subject you all to one more post once I've done that.
Oh no, another picture (and maybe video?) of a great looking engine! :LickLips:
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;D
You're too kind sir! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
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...
That's it for this engine, other than making some kind of better base for it, so I may yet subject you all to one more post once I've done that.
Oh no, another picture (and maybe video?) of a great looking engine! :LickLips:
Yes, Stuart - please post some pics when you have made the new base.
gary