E-bike ... Anyone have one?

[wagnmkr]

I'm curious. Tales of houses burning down due to battery fires. Tales of insurance woes after a collision or said battery fire.

I am sure someone here knows why these things catch on fire. I used to do drone flying and saw some fires due to crashes and improper chargers.

Is the newer technology safer?

Curious minds (and an old phart with balance problems) would like to know.

Cheers

[uuu]

I've got an e-bike and it's not caught fire yet.  Nor has my electric car, power drill, lawn mower, toothbrush, mobile phone, or any of the other battery devices I have.

But I do always use the charger that's matched to the device (I'm told that using a mis-matched charger is a dangerous thing).  And I don't have cheap tat. 

Wilf

[BillTodd]

I have had a couple of German made ebikes (EAPC in the uk) . I think they are wonderful things that allow my old legs to carry me sensible distances again  :pinkelephant

I've had no worries at all about changing them. My current bike , a Riese and Muller Superdelite  has Bosch electrics that seem bulletproof.

That said; charging lithium batteries is potentially a problem (just like topping up a fuel tank) so is best done where an unlikely catastrophic failure would cause minimal harm.

[AVTUR]

We have to live with Lithium batteries. The important thing is to use original matching battery and charger.

A good friend lives with his son who is a keen gamer. The son bought some batteries off a well known website and one caught fire on charging. The fire brigade had to be called who put it out with a lot of smoke and water damage. The insurance company then took over their home, including workshop, giving them limited controlled access. After three weeks in a hotel they rented a house and it took ten months to get home. They even had 15 minutes on a local TV programme about battery fires. Mind you the insurance company did remove all the asbestos from the house.

AVTUR

[Admiral_dk]

One problem with Li-Ion batteries is that they must NOT be exposed to water !!!!

So a very big part of the Fire risk has to do with how well the Battery Pack has been sealed. Kind of funny - that you have to submerge a burning Battery in water for a long time to kill the fire.

Another VERY important fact, has to do with the quality of the BMS (Battery Management System) inside the Pack.
It must take good care of each Battery-Cell in the Pack - protect against Over- and Under- Voltage, Temperature and Overcurrent + ballance all the cells.

I can go on - but if you get an eBike that is EU approved (that excludes the majority of Chinese cheap bikes) and that is Mandatory for sales in EU - you should be fine.

I work as a Quality Tech in a Danish eBike company and we also Produce Battery Packs for the eBikes we sell + to other Customers in other products.

Per         

[wagnmkr]

Thank You for the excellent replies.

Like Wilf, I have had rechargeable stuff for eons and never had a problem when I used the proper charger and treated the battery the recommended way.

We have 3 or 400 kilometers of rail trails within minutes of the house and access to the Trans Canada Trail which as it says goes across the whole country is about 5 minutes away.

I have walked a lot of those trails and still enjoy them but my legs don't and I have been thinking of an ebike.

Your replies have reinforced what I thought. Now I need to find a dealer that sells EU rated bikes.

 
Tom

[AVTUR]

Moving away from batteries slightly, metals lighter than and including iron want to revert back to their oxides They will do anything to do this including stripping the oxygen out of water. One only has to think about burning Magnesium. Metal fires are very nasty and there is nothing unusual about Lithium.

Tom,have fun with the electric bike. The same friend loves his. It is called Doris.

AVTUR

[wagnmkr]

Thanks Avtur. I do have a leg powered 3 wheeler at the moment (no name yet) that my wife has designs on.

It appears that we have a UL listing in North America that is similar but not totally the same as the EU standard. Ours covers the complete electronics package like the EU one so it gives me a bit more confidence. I will be looking for aluminum or similar as I believe they will be a bit lighter as well.

No purchase yet but at this point I am looking at the possibility of some sort of Trek that has the Bosh electrics in it.

 

Tom

[Michael S.]

I've also been using an e-bike for a year now and ride it to work during the summer months. It's 16 km each way. The bike is a real help, and I try to treat the battery well. That means not letting it run completely flat and only charging it to 90 percent. I also protect it from freezing in winter. The bike has a Bosch motor, and here e-bikes are only allowed to go up to 25 km/h. Anyone who wants to go faster has to use all their own power. There are people who manipulate the software to go faster, but then they lose their insurance coverage.

Michael

[wagnmkr]

Thank You Micheal for that info.

Where I want to ride the bike (rail trails mainly, as far away from our crazy traffic as possible) the bike is limited to pedal assist only (no throttle) and a speed limit of 20 kilometers per hour which is more than OK with me. It is the help with the pedalling I want and not the speed.

The bike has to have a permanent sticker that proves it is compliant with these rules as well.

I need to talk to my local bike shop and see what they have in this range.

Cheers   

[Kim]

I don't have an eBike, but do have an electric car, phone, tablet, power tools, etc. and have never had an issue with any of them.  I also have a bunch of rechargeable AA and AAA cells that I use in various items around the house and I HAVE had a few of those batteries fail.  Luckily, they have failed in a way where the smart charger tells me that the battery is no good, and I stop using that cell.

I while back I came across this video where Adam Savage (of Myth Busters fame) works with some people to look at a whole bunch of LiIon cells to see where failures occur. And the conclusion they come to is that if you get batteries from well know OEMs, the chance of failure is MUCH lower than if you get the cheap cells from the copycat sellers. And this, of course, matches my experience with those failed AA cells.  They are "Amazon Basics", which are the cheapest clone copies of whatever you are looking to buy.

Anyway, this is worth a watch if you have the time.  I actually found it quite reassuring.
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Y23nfAOiXQ" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Y23nfAOiXQ</a>

Kim

[wagnmkr]

Thanks Kim, I'll get that a watch later today.

Cheers

[Admiral_dk]

Not charging to 100% doesn't do any good - unless you are going to store the battery for a longer period ....
But in that case it's around 40% it should be charged to !!!!

I completely agree about the source of the Battery Cells. We only have two Manufactures that we buy directly from.
Then all the individual Cells are sorted and matched to better than 1% - before they are Spot-Welded together.
After quite a good number of further steps, they are Tested and Sealed - then to the Big Tester where they are running Aging Cycles - to confirm that the Whole Battery Pack are up to specifications.
All in order to ensure we and the Customer don't get any problems during the 5 Year Warranty ...!!!

I have been cycling to work every day since May 1st. 2024 on one of the Companies eBikes and did 5400Km. on the first, before I was told to switch to a newer and different model, where we also produce the Motor and have put aprox. 1000Km. on the meter til now.
I'm very happy doing this as I save a good amount of money every year + it has improved my Health too   

Per     

[wagnmkr]

 

[BillTodd]

Regarding battery charge state...

Always remember, you have to get back!

Having 12miles of range left , doesn't mean you can cycle the 8 miles to your brother's house and get back without having to pedal a bloody heavy bike up a stinking ****** hill .

Ask me how I know ;-)

[Art K]

I do recall 5 or so years ago some Korean cell phone manufacturer had a phone that burst into flames and an airliner had to make an emergency landing. After investigation they found they were bending the battery because the case was to small.
Art

[wagnmkr]

Regarding battery charge state...

Always remember, you have to get back!

Having 12miles of range left , doesn't mean you can cycle the 8 miles to your brother's house and get back without having to pedal a bloody heavy bike up a stinking ****** hill .

Ask me how I know ;-)

 

[Admiral_dk]

I have forgotten to charge a few times
In that situation, it helps if you lower the Assist Level - our Bikes go from 0 to 5 and Bosch has fancy names for the Levels .... Depending on how bad SOC (State of Charge) is, I go down a few and it extends the Distance quite a bit.

I have tried running Low a number of times. The Bike I did 5400Km. on, had a Six year old Battery Pack when I started using it => I got the "Low Battery Voltage Error" around 20% SOC during Summer months and 30% SOC in the Winter.
When this happens, the Motor is Killed by the System, to prevent ruining the Battery Pack  (no not burning).
I learned that I could Reboot the System (Off On) and choose a low Assist Level (1 or 2) before Pedalling again or in case of a steep hill ahead - keep the Motor Off until the hill is reached and the Reboot. The wait partly let the Battery recover.

The new eBike is a significant upgrade in Range - 80Km. (50miles) going from 100% to 10% SOC - but the bigger battery is also heavier. Kruitbosch eLet Cortina eBike is almost as light as my old grandfather bike (not electric) - but it has no gears, as they sell it in Nederlands (Holland).

Per         

[wagnmkr]

That is interesting stuff Per. Thank You.

[uuu]

My Bosch system seems to have a feature where it kills the motor with enough battery left to keeps the lights going while you pedal home.  It's a bit annoying if there's only one hill left to go.

Wilf

[Admiral_dk]

All our models do the same.
The Low Battery => Kill Motor - but not Lights - are mostly connected to the fact, that the Light uses a few mA. and therefore will literally take many Hours to do any damage to the Battery even though the voltage has reached the Minimum .... But the Motor will do it in Minutes if you still have access to Full Power ....

+ The fact that the Lights are Mandatory in case of Darkness + a VERY Important Safety issue 

Per       

[Michael S.]

Ever since I got my e-bike, I wouldn't want to be without it. The commute from the company where I work to my home now takes just under five minutes............


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d9dsCZEyi8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d9dsCZEyi8</a>

[steam guy willy]

As I am quite disabled, and I have been using E-bikes for about 20 years ..these are standard shop bought machines and I have never had any trouble from them  ??!!!!!! I charge them up everyday and use it constantly........
cheers
Willy

[wagnmkr]

That is quite the commute Micheal. I see you are not alone on your trip .. lots of cyclists there.

 

Tom

[Michael S.]

Hi Tom,
I need to go right across the city from north to south, but I always ride along the bike path that runs parallel to the river—no car traffic.

Best regards, Michael

[Pete49]

I use an E scooter here in Sth. Australia and am restricted to 10k/hr on shared paths and 25 on bike paths and mainly use it to go to the local shop or visit nearby friends. I charge it away from the house and flammable stuff but never had a problem. Saves short runs with my car.

[Admiral_dk]

Wonderful Trip Michael 

Is the same track useful during Winter time ?
Our bicycle lanes are usually cleared during the winter + salted (I'm not a fan of salt - there are better options).
But the vast majority are located 1-3m. (3-10') away from the roads ....

Per       

[Michael S.]

Hi Per,

I have to tell you that I only ride my bike from March to October; after that, it gets too cold for me.
I use the Elbe Cycle Route, which is shared with pedestrians. It can get a bit tight at times—especially on weekends.

Best regards, Michael

[uuu]

I quite like riding in the winter.  Because the electric bike is a lot less effort, I can wear multiple layers and not get too sweaty.  It's fun in snow.

But the battery performance is reduced in the cold.  So for my standard 15 mile each way trip (to the model engineering club), I took a charger in winter and did a quick top up.  Probably not needed, but it gave me the ability to turn on the full assistance if I was feeling lazy on the homeward leg.

Wilf