Model Engine Maker
Supporting => My Workshop => Topic started by: steamer on May 18, 2022, 01:13:19 AM
-
Tracking number came to me today! It's been 4 months!....but the DRO kit from DRO Pro is coming soon.
Hoping for a Memorial Day weekend install maybe We'll see.
Stay tuned!
Dave
-
Huzzah! That’s great news, I am very happy for you. Hope it arrives for the weekend so you can get some time with it.
-
Try and be cool with the delivery driver, not capering around like Gollum finding Precious!
-
Ah heck with it. Shove him down and run screaming into the house giggling and yipping. That’s what I did.
-
:lolb:
-
MY PRECIOUS!!!!!!!
:lolb:
-
Wrong Franchise - but : "May the Force be with You" :cheers:
Per
-
Is it time for second-breakfast yet?
-
Some young lady got her new DRO today!!!!!! :whoohoo:
Just in time for a long weekend....
Dave
-
Congrats, Dave! :cheers:
Hope you get to enjoy some shop time working on installation this weekend!
Kim
-
:cartwheel:
-
Excellent news Dave! Enjoy!
-
Some young lady got her new DRO today!!!!!! :whoohoo:
Just in time for a long weekend....
Dave
It must be Christmas :jumpingsmileys:
Looking forward to hearing how easy it is 8)
Jo
-
Some young lady got her new DRO today!!!!!! :whoohoo:
Just in time for a long weekend....
Dave
It must be Christmas :jumpingsmileys:
Looking forward to hearing how easy it is 8)
Jo
I don't know about how easy I see two problems
Getting a scale on the X, as it's a long bed, and a casting with no flat surfaces, I will need to put in mounting posts on machined spots along the bed I have a plan for that I think....and once set up shouldn't be so bad
The tough one is the cross slide! The SB has radial clamp screws that bare on the spigot on the compound. As far as I can see it, I will be covering one of those 2 screws. I'll need to noodle on that a bit, but I might be able to drill and tap a new lock screw coming in from above on the cross slide table surface that bares on the same lock pin. I'll need to draw that up this week and see if it makes any sense.....lots of fun challenges ahead for sure!!!! But I WILL be putting this on the lathe. No going back on that one, its bought and paid for now.
Dave
-
Looking at the cross slide just now, it may not be so bad. I have to step the scale off the side of the casting to get around the boss in the casting, so it should be enough room to get in there with a stubby allen wrench ( sketch below)
-
And there is just enough vertical thickness on the cross slide to let the scale sit in the "shadow" and let me use the cross slide as a boring table...as designed. I'll need to protect the scale from the tailstock though.
Dave
-
Looking at the cross slide just now, it may not be so bad. I have to step the scale off the side of the casting to get around the boss in the casting, so it should be enough room to get in there with a stubby allen wrench ( sketch below)
Nice frosting on that cross slide
Mike
-
Thanks Mike. It was a fun exercise getting it flat and parallel to the ways. Very nice iron from Metal Lathe Accessories.
-
Glad to see you getting her up dated buddy, but where’s to photos? :stickpoke:
:cheers:
Don
-
Theyre coming Don......lots of things going on over at Steamers house...
I measured the flange for the non existent SB taper attachment, and it's (2) 3/8-16 tapped holes on a 3.5" center. Additionally, there is a long expanse of flat vertical bed casting back there! So I should be able to mount this with a minimum of bracket making. I will need to replace the saddle bracket with one that can accept the T/A fixings and adapt to the brackets to the kit, but that's like one part.
Looking at the scale, I don't see the need to add any in between supports to supplement the provided end brackets, and the bed is 54" long, so I will probably mount the scale as is without cutting it ( I have about 36" of travel on the X AXIS) So the mounting should be pretty easy, I'll need some form of drill jig to get the holes in the right place I think, but leaving the scale long lets me work to the far left of the bed where I have better access.
-
Remember you may need some adjustment when you come to check the scale is parallel to the bed. I did this by mounting the Z scale on an additional long flat metal backing plate; it made mounting a lot easier ;)
Jo
-
Sounds like a solid plan Dave. I'll be following along.
-
Now the question is where is the side of the bed, with respect to the back of the saddle. Fortune was on my side!
I was able to use the bracket that came with the kit to actually measure the space that the scale has to fit into.. With a little bit of measurement and some sketching, I came up with the following cross section sketch showing the top of the cross slide, the back of the saddle, and the available location to put the scale and the approximate profile of the bracket I need to make. For those of you taking notes. This is a 1951 SB Model A. 9" Workshop lathe, and I have a Metal Lathe Accessories T slotted cross slide, so make sure you take into account for the casting if you do NOT have that T slotted cross slide....
I measured the Center to Center distance for the 3/8 bolts and it's 3.50" so I think I can just make the bracket. Next will be some form of drill jig to mount the scale brackets and for that, I think I'll make a drill jig to bolts to the saddle of the lathe. Stay tuned!!
Dave
-
Remember you may need some adjustment when you come to check the scale is parallel to the bed. I did this by mounting the Z scale on an additional long flat metal backing plate; it made mounting a lot easier ;)
Jo
There's enough room to move the scale to the right by about 12-13 mm thick bar if I find I need one and not really affect the mounting...so I'll keep that in mind.....the trick here is I don't have a place to move the lathe to get to the back, so I need to do it all in place on the bench it's on now....that should be a nice trick.....
-
Here's the model of the drill jig that I'll be bolting to the back of the saddle. It will have 3 tools with 1/2" diameter shanks that locate in the bushing and are driven by a pistol drill. A center drill, a tap drill and a M6 or 1/4-20 tap all loctited into a piece of 1/2" ground shaft.
The bushing ls located off center so that I can reach 3.25" beyond the end of travel of the saddle either left or right by simply flipping the jig 180 for a total of 6.5" beyond the limit of travel for the bed which is in the 36" range I believe. So I'll locate the first hole at the extreme right end of travel, and lock the saddle, drill and tap. Then move the saddle 2.00* with the help of a bed mounted dial indicator and drill and tap a second hole.. I'll use the scale as a locator for the 3rd hole, and dial in 2" more for the 4th and last hole. they should be in line by virtue of the fact that they were located with the saddle itself.....That's the plan anyway.
I'll remeasure my travel first, and confirm the dimension from the mounting bolts to the proposed mounting bolt location vertically and then wip up the jig on the mill.......Im digging this plan!!!! :whoohoo:
Dave
-
Confirmed travel for the 4.5 foot bed lathe is 34". Scale TRAVEL is 40" so I suspect I'll need to cut the scale as its at least a read head longer than that so about 43"...
-
:pics:
We need to show the members how easy it is to fit scales to their machines ;)
I'll let you tell them how nice it is to use a Lathe with a DRO fitted after ::)
Jo
-
:pics:
We need to show the members how easy it is to fit scales to their machines ;)
I'll let you tell them how nice it is to use a Lathe with a DRO fitted after ::)
Jo
Well.....I am....please read my responses.....More to come.
-
quick lexan test fixture to prove geometry of my jig.....or did I measure it all right?
3 drilled holes and we'll find out!!
-
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
:popcorn:
-
OK WRONG> I forgot to subtract the distance down from the table to the bolt centers...so it should be 2.156 down....drill another hole and I'll take a picture
-
Hence the wisdom of making the test fixture plate. Nice. :ThumbsUp:
-
OK Nailed it!
Here's the test fixture...keep in mind its at the back of the lathe where I can't see, but there is enough room to get my cordless drill in
The fixture in place with a 3/8 drill sitting in a 3/8 hole in the test fixture. I pushed the drill in and up against the bed and then traversed the saddle and scribed a line shown in the next photo.
The third photo is taken from the front and shows the fixture in place....I'll repeat the test with the fixture flipped over to the left side of the saddle and seen what I can do behind the headstock.
-
Now I make some extended drills....like this one One with a center drill, 1 with a M6 or so tap drill, I think I can tap the hole with a hand held tap guide block, even blind...
The bushing in the fixture guides these 2 tools to the correct location even blind and backwards......
Dave
-
OK so I filpped the jig around , and it works well! Then I layed it out in Cad....see attached photo 2
You wiill notice that I flip the fixture at each end to gain some distance over and above the actual travel of the Z axis
So now I can cut the scale to 42" down from 45.125", and cover all eventualities!.....
Time to make up some tooling, and clean the shop. I will also have to take the motor and jack shaft off the back of the lathe to get access to the HS side, but I doh't need to unbolt the lathe from the bench....at least on paper I don't
The scales have leveling screws, and if I want to put a rail underneath the scale for some stiffness, that shouldn't be a problem.
Then the next challenge will be the X axis. The scale JUST fits so I will need some custom brackets as I've already discussed....and of course I need to do cable routing and hang the actual readout....but I'm getting excited!!!
-
OK fixture plate is machined, tomorrow I'll make up to identical bushings and the extended reach guided tooling and we'll be in business!!!
The other item I'll need to deal with on the cross slide is gib adjusting screw access and cross slide lock. I see some sxcrew making in my future!.....I may have a geo die with 10-32....I'll look I can make some square head screws for the gibs so I can get at them with a small wrench.....
Dave
-
The casting back there is flat, but not vertical, so I'll need to jack one side of the brackets up at mounting.....but we'll sort that out. The dimension is perfect! I checked it with the mock up and the bracket and it fits exactly where it needs to go.
Dave
-
Well no 1.25" Brass round around, but I do have some Delrin bar.....might make bushing from that,,,,It only has to last for 4 holes....hmmmmm
-
might be able to get away with some aluminum too....
-
Its a bit scary drilling holes in our beloved machines :paranoia:
But its worth it ;)
Jo
-
Oh I good with drilling 4 M6 holes in the bed for this benefit!
I found some brass rod, and made up the bushings and the extended body drills were also made up.
I just need a M6 tap... :killcomputer:which will be a 3 or 4 days....Pictures coming...I need to mow the JUNGLE lawn...almost got taken by some predator on the way up the driveway....
-
The X axis will be a challenge!!! The scale will cover the gib screws and one of the compound lock screws....so I'll need to make up new ones for sure! I'm going to look for square head 10-32 screws for the gibs.....that would work for the gibs anyway....I may need to machine a little of the boss that holds the right side compound lock screw to get a square head in there maybe?.....I'll work on that while I wait for the tap to show up..got to mount the DRO box as well, though that already sorted out I think....just need to make the mount and mount it to the bench over the lathe.
Dave
-
https://www.mcmaster.com/90046A116/
These look interesting! At least for the gib screws....
-
Heres the fixture and the drills ...waiting for the retaining compound to cure, and for a tap...
-
I also ordered the screws to replace what I have on the X axis. Next is the standoffs to support the scale, and 2 spot faced mounts on the side of the cross slide.....careful like......
....grass to mow.....tomorrow maybe
Dave
-
Productive day today!!!
I decided to ditch the crappy mount blocks and go with steel standoffs.....1 at each end of the scale to mount it to the base. To do this I had to add a tool to the fixture, a piloted counterbore. I made that from 0-1 tool steel, hardened it and drew the temper back a touch.....so the sequence
First, I spot drill and drill...keep in mind I'm drilling on the back of the machine while standing at the front. First picture is the drill breaking through the bed in the trough between the ways on the tailstock end of the bed....the bolts down there are for the TS bed leg.
Now I chuck up a .196 diameter piloted co-bore to spot face this hole....second picture...holding the camera in the back to see the fixture and the drill mounted to spot face a flat bottom hole.
The result is the third and forth pictures at the TS end and HS end respectively. The HS end gave me some grief, as it has a hard skin of the casting there.....but good pressure and it went through...had to go slow with a carbon steel tool though...but it was the last hole luckily.
As this was put in with the fixture that references off the saddle I expect they are in line....I will have to tweek the length of the standoffs to get them coplaner, but that shouldn't be too hard.....so next is some standoffs and the bracket for the read head....
Progress!!!
-
Great progress and approach!
-
I'm going to tap the bed 1/4-20 because SouthBend.....
The stand offs will have a male 1/4-20 side that goes into the bed, and a female 10-32 side to mount the scales with a screw.
With this, I can put a bar under the scale if I feel I need to, as Jo suggested.
Should have at least a inch of over travel on each end....so feels good!!!!
And the best part is I didn't have to dismantle anything to do it!!!!....
Dave
-
Living this. One step at a time.
Mike
-
Building a bench with my son for his room today.....please stand by...
-
That's a great project for Father and Son. Thank You for posting.
How old is your son. How much of the work can he do himself?
I've always thought more learning comes from working through problems and recovering from mistakes.
--ShopShoe
P.S.: Will we see photos when done?
--SS
-
That's a great project for Father and Son. Thank You for posting.
How old is your son. How much of the work can he do himself?
I've always thought more learning comes from working through problems and recovering from mistakes.
--ShopShoe
P.S.: Will we see photos when done?
--SS
It's was a great project and I got to teach him some things about carpentry and old houses. Came out great, but it still needs some trim and the Masonite bench top covers.
Dave
-
That's a great project for Father and Son. Thank You for posting.
How old is your son. How much of the work can he do himself?
I've always thought more learning comes from working through problems and recovering from mistakes.
--ShopShoe
P.S.: Will we see photos when done?
--SS
Yes when I get it done we'll post a photo, my son is 19, and we've not done a lot together since our racing days, so it was really special to teach him how to safely use a table saw, and talk the project through the planning stages before that, and solve problems together.....
He's not a kid anymore, hes a young man, and it shows.....I'm kinda chuffed a how he turned out honestly
Dave
Dave
-
OK back to the grind! Some half inch long standoffs ( nominally, I'll need to face one to match the other in situ) and a half inch thick bracket for the read head to hang off the back of the saddle....That is coming up....just got home from work so not tonight.
But coming along nicely
Dave
-
A quick model and I have something to go by.
-
Progress today! Got the stqndoffs mounted, both identical, figured the bed should be pretty close to parallel to the ways right?
Cut the Z scale just about exactly 1.8 inches ( 1.802) The scale dropped right on! Cool!
Next go for my Noga indicator stand......shop gremlins have walked off with it!!!! :o.....look for an hour....still can't find it I mean it's a $100 stand with a $300 indicator on it!!! :Mad:
Grab another indicator, set up and measure parallelism of the scale to the bed ways.....it's out 0.100/9.5 inches!!!!! :toilet_claw:
So the bed is NO WHERE NEAR parallel to the ways ( thank you southbend...lower case s intentional) I mean I was hoping it was like within and 1/8" anyway!!!.....so.... Not all is not lost though, 0.1/9.5 = X /38.2 = 0.402" taper over the full length....so I'll shim one stand off out .201 and face the other back 0.201, and I should be pretty close!!.....
Ass pain! I'm still doing this from the front as I can't get to it in the back......getting there....the X should be pretty easy I think...as I can reference the dovetail directly when I machine the side for the standoffs, and then face the standoffs in position....should be spot on.
Dave
Dave
-
I feel your pain Dave!
All I can say is .................the result is worth the effort.
-
If you are just remotely like me - you decided that such expensive and important measuring equipment needs to be stored in a safe location :Love: .... if enough time passes before you need it again, my memory Index has lost the File / Location :wallbang: :cussing: ..... Much later I discover the missing items and sure enough - they are in a very safe location :facepalm:
I hope this doesn't take too long for you :cheers:
On the other Point .... One of my Yankee friends told me Years ago :
"Never Ever Assume Any thing - You just make an Ass- out off U- and Me" ....
Good that it shouldn't be too hard to correct :ThumbsUp:
Per
-
OK....truth is emerging! The stand off faces are not coplaner or parallel....but the good news is the ends of the scales have leveling screws...and i've been playing with spacers and leveling screws....and got it down to .003" in 34 inches....so getting better....right now I'm learning how this thing behaves....so more work will be required, but I do feel like I'm gaining on it......
As far as the Noga is concerned....I'm sure I'm probably staring at it right now....but it eludes me....I normallly put that on the big steel base for the F1 mill...behind it...out of the way where it won't get knocked over.....it's not there....but for the life of me I'm not seeing it....
Dave
-
OK....truth is emerging! The stand off faces are not coplaner or parallel....but the good news is the ends of the scales have leveling screws...and i've been playing with spacers and leveling screws....and got it down to .003" in 34 inches....so getting better....right now I'm learning how this thing behaves....so more work will be required, but I do feel like I'm gaining on it......
As far as the Noga is concerned....I'm sure I'm probably staring at it right now....but it eludes me....I normallly put that on the big steel base for the F1 mill...behind it...out of the way where it won't get knocked over.....it's not there....but for the life of me I'm not seeing it....
Dave
Stand up and look back - you may be leaning on it... :stickpoke: Or you left it in the other room where you used it to level a picture on the wall...
-
I wish Chris! I've looked under the machines and the bench Not seeing it!!!!
It up and tight, and .003 over 35 or so inches is about as good as I can get....so I'm calling that....now to the readhead.....but first I rest my leg....major leg cramp!!!! Not good with 30 feet of Orthopedic wire holding my patella tendon together! Hurts!
Dave
-
Spec is 0.1mm /meter...or about .004/40"....so I'm not done yet.....I'll keep tweeking it ...it's going to take a while....
Dave
-
Yeah - it's a process. You're doing great though - it will be well worth it.
-
I wish Chris! I've looked under the machines and the bench Not seeing it!!!!
...
Check the attic and the dog house - you may have some BIG shop gnomes! :ROFL:
-
Some progress made this weekend, I am working on the X axis now, ....to get the cross slide off, I had to take the saddle off. Seems I made the new tool wall 1/4 inch too close to the lathe to move the cross slide off the saddle in the normal way. No worries, it comes off with 4 screws...
Pictures to come
Dave
-
Making some progress on the DRO.... had to take the saddle off to get the cross slide off....
Got the Z and X mag scales mounted....nearly....
-
Looking good Dave - nearly there!
-
Got a little time in the shop today.....I have Samantha Bell torn down at the moment, so I decided that as long as I have the hood up, Id take some measurements......Everything is exactly where I left it 10 years ago.....I'm going to touch NOTHING....and just put the scales back on...which is good as I'll need her next week. I'm going to get vacation and some time working on my boat!.... :whoohoo:
It's nice to just see a few polish marks on the saddle bearing surfaces with all my frost still in place. :cartwheel: :DrinkPint:
Dave
-
:pinkelephant:
-
Do understand why you are happy that ALL your hard work back then - is still up to the same specs :praise2:
It speaks Volumes about the quality of your work and how well you treat your Tools :praise2: :praise2:
Per
oh - and Enjoy a well earned Holliday :whoohoo:
-
I did find that the apron is kinda dry...like it's not getting enough lube. I'll investigate....
-
I've gone back and forth dithering as to scale orientation with the cross slide. Enough Pick one and go!
That said I'll be putting it in like the following photo's show. The challenge is getting to the compound lock screw and the gib screws after install.....that said, I have found putting the square head set screws for the compound back in will solve the compound lock problem. For the gib screws, I've changed the screws over to hex head cap screws which I'll trim to a close length and be able to get to them from the top or the bottom of the scale. I may need to make a tweek here and there, but lets get this thing together!!!
So tomorrow I'll get the Z buttoned up, and maybe get the DRO box mounted. Then tackle the rest of the X.
Dave
-
X AXIS IS IN! :whoohoo:
-
Looks really good Dave :ThumbsUp:
I hope it will work well for you :cheers:
Per
-
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
:cheers:
Mike
-
Looks great, Dave! Now you just have to get the covers on and you're good to go! :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
Kim
-
It's taking the spot of the traditional follower rest, but the SB unit is kinda hoky anyway. I have a different follower rest that I built that I use that is much more useful, so I guess I won't miss it.
Dave
-
OK another rain day....so another day in the shop....for the most part....hey its MY vacation right?
I got the read head on the X axis aligned and shimmed, and what a joy to have it read out in .0002" increments!! No more squinting at dials and guessing between the little lines!...it seems very stable and very happy... Next is the Z axis bracket which is a bit more complicated. It will also be the center for the cable management...and the cables are long.
So next is a good clean of the chip tray area, and punch a hole in the back splash for the cables....and mount the DRO proper....where it belongs. Very happy with my purchase!!!
Dave
-
It's all in! and it works great! I need to sort out the scaling on the axes,, as currently they are reading 5X what they should, but that's fine. It's all in the set up
Only thing left is the strain relief at the saddle. I'll take photo's shortly, but it's directly from the DROPRO's web site and guidance.
The other thing that I spent some time on is the position of the DRO itself. I wanted it to be available from a seated position...which forced me to lower it 6" from it's first location but I like it now...
More to come Today was border line rain all day so I stayed in the shop....boat tomorrow.
Dave
-
Congratulations on getting the DRO all setup, Dave! I'm sure you'll love having it! :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
Kim
-
Congratulations with the Installation - You are going to love using it :Love: :cheers:
Per
-
Calibrated!! Also changed the set up to read diameter vs radius and corrected the axes directions to reflect positive and negative. Now to learn all the features the DRO has, including multiple tool offsets, Apparently my Z axis scale is a 1 micron scale vs a 5 micron....not sure how that happened, but the motions all check out compared to a Dial test indicator.... :shrug:
Dave
-
It's nice to dial in .0002" instead of guessing where that is between the dial lines ...the eyes aren't what they used to be.....opens a whole other world of what the SB9 is and is NOT capable of . I'll be tightening up my spindle bearings a schoch.... ( 1 micron scales on both axes currently)
Happy Happy!
Dave
-
There done. Waiting to install a tool chest on the watchmakers bench.......took 10 years to accumulate and or build/rebuild all this.
It don't happen over night that's for sure!
Dave
-
Wow! That's a nice setup, Dave! :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
Looks like a fun place to spend some time!
You certainly make efficient use of the space there. You pack a lot into a little area!
Kim
-
Wow! That's a nice setup, Dave! :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:
Looks like a fun place to spend some time!
You certainly make efficient use of the space there. You pack a lot into a little area!
Kim
Got no choice. It's a little area!
Dave