Hi Chris, I am prepared for following along.
I am looking forward to watching progress on this one, having had a full size one many years ago.
Phil
I am looking forward to watching progress on this one, having had a full size one many years ago.
Phil
Hope it brings back some good memories! As I recall, the one your family had went to Australia? I found some references to a couple there, at least one went back to England again.
There is this listing for one that sounds like it, includes the conversion notes:I am looking forward to watching progress on this one, having had a full size one many years ago.
Phil
Hope it brings back some good memories! As I recall, the one your family had went to Australia? I found some references to a couple there, at least one went back to England again.
I am not 100% sure, but I think the one we owned ended up in the Czech republic.
Phil
No point in letting any grass grow under your feet, eh Chris? :)Nope, mowed the lawn a few days ago, time to build! :Lol:
Looking forward to a new build! :popcorn: :popcorn:
Kim
Like the tube jigs from the Cellulose-Lignin Tool and Die Co. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:The 'alloy' the main blocks were sawn from is Cherry-5/4.... :Lol:
We need to keep an eye on this Chris. >:(He's on to us guys... Better send in the ninja shop gnomes to steal his jug of Stinking Hoppies.... :ROFL:
My conspiracy theory is that he's building an empire using elves.
Think about it...the Wagon, the Lombard, a steam shovel, an excavator...not to mention subs of various types.
I myself have been invaded twice by his minions though I managed to repel them.
(His elves aren't the most loyal though...make a better cookie and they will turn.) ;D
Yeah Chris. I'm watching you.
And your cohorts on the forum as well.
Fun to think back on the first boiler I did, and how long it would have taken me to get to this same point back then!
He's off again :o I cannot cope with the pace of work, and I'm just watching. I'm going to lie down somewhere quiet!!! Well done Chris
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:Ah, someones been sniffing the solder flux again! :ROFL:
For the flanging ops on the boiler endplates, I suggest you hire those two elf candidates that applied to your ad for additional elves - one was A.Neal and the other was Mal Ett. :shrug:
Be sure to tell them that pilferage of Mann boiler endplates for use as jumbo frypans for elves is NOT allowed. And suggest you check the spirit locker so there's Navy rum available for the cool down party....... :cheers: :Lol:
:ThumbsUp:
Good stuff Chris!
What info/calculations/"Elfinology" did you use to calculate the wall thickness, stays required, & boiler volume required for this particular engine?
John
Thank you Chris! I'll have to check out the book. I'm trying to get a better understanding of boiler requirements so I can design some boilers at model scale. You just can't beat the experience of an engine running on steam.Check around and see if there is a live steam club in your area, they would have lots of info too. I know there is one up the other side of Buffalo from you, but thats a bit of a hike. The live steam loco clubs usually have a qualified inspector who can give lots of details on local rules, especially important if you want to run at a public event.
John
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:Hmmm, your pun-quotient does seem to vary with the fume intensity.... :Jester:
(head now fully clear of flux fumes - and no, I won't say that five times fast! :o :Lol: )
Hi Chris,I've noticed the difference in the past when doing assemblies. And once it melts/flows, time to stop heating that section. The copper wicks heat away so well, that an inch away from the flowing solder it can be too cold to melt it, particularly on the large mass of a boiler. Dont forget, the joints on this are not right next to each other for the most part. The one exception is the rib inside the end caps, and those will have a screw holding them in place just in case the solder does re-soften. Also, I've noticed that to re-melt a section takes more heat than to solder it the first time. At least it seems that way. I'll take any advantage I can get! Definitely would not want to start with the Easy then do another bit with the Hard.
So, do you actually find that using the Hard, Medium and Easy solders are that helpful? Their melting temperatures aren't all that far apart.
Hard: 1490 F
Medium: 1425 F
Easy: 1390 F
So only 100 F between the hard and easy. I'm not sure that I can control the temperature that accurately when I solder. I only do it by sight - when I see the flux go shiny, then shortly after that, the solder melts. If I've got the right parts hot, then it melts in the right places, otherwise I have to use a pointy flux coated stick to bump things around a little, and maybe apply a little more heat to one side or the other. I wouldn't be surprised if one side of the joint gets a hundred degrees hotter than the other side.
But maybe its closer than I think?
Kim
He's off again :o I cannot cope with the pace of work, and I'm just watching. I'm going to lie down somewhere quiet!!! Well done Chris
Elf-Cardio!He's off again :o I cannot cope with the pace of work, and I'm just watching. I'm going to lie down somewhere quiet!!! Well done Chris
Yep, it’s exhausting just reading this thread. :LittleDevil:
Hi Chris,Hi Gerald,
I have been following along on the sidelines on this one.
About the Kozo books they are great, but if you or some of the others can't afford them at the current time I did come across his original article in Live Steam.
Safety of Copper Boilers by Kozo Hiraoka this nine page article was first in Live Steam & O.R. (Vol. 40 No. 6 Nov-Dec 2006) and is included in Building the New Shay.
A couple of others I have used for years are listed below;
K.N Harris's book Model Boilers and Boilermaking.
(This one is almost considered the Bible among Boiler Makers)
Found online PDF copy:
http://www.fastonline.org/CD3WD_40/JF/424/19-422.pdf (http://www.fastonline.org/CD3WD_40/JF/424/19-422.pdf)
"Model Stationary and Marine Steam Engines" by K.N.Harris
Found online PDF copy:
http://www.fastonline.org/CD3WD_40/JF/424/19-423.pdf (http://www.fastonline.org/CD3WD_40/JF/424/19-423.pdf)
Regards,
Gerald.
Hi Chris,No problem, the books are well worth the money.
Sorry about the links, I had not checked them before I posted them, I just copied them from my list, they had worked at one time. I think they are still available somewhere on line, but might be best to buy hardcopies.
Gerald.
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn
Boiler work looks great! Hi Yoh Silver (solder)!
They say that if a bird takes a >delivered swarf< on your head it is good luck. With what you mentioned in your bucket you should have good luck for life! :Lol:Somehow I don't think bird exhaust is good luck in any way! :ShakeHead:
once I remembered which drawer it was in... :headscratch:- Ouch, know that one too well too ....
Nice parts and progress Chris :cheers:Should be in this drawer in the toolbox.... nope, maybe that one, nope, up there? Nope, look in all of them again.... Oh, wait, in that cabinet over there! YUP!
Great when you already have the spares you need before you need them :ThumbsUp:Quoteonce I remembered which drawer it was in... :headscratch:- Ouch, know that one too well too ....
Per
May need to sacrifice a shop gnome to the soldering gods first... :LittleDevil:
Not a problem here, all the shop gnomes were converted to helpful (mostly) shop elves.... As long as I don't try to replace them with CNC I am safe.May need to sacrifice a shop gnome to the soldering gods first... :LittleDevil:
That may be one way to clear the shop.
But having given them notice (they do know how to read right?) you should be alert for sabotage.
But then, I suppose, you always are on alert for their shenanigans.
Nice work Mr. Chris---I will probably never build a steam boiler, but I certainly enjoy seeing how you build yours.---BrianThanks Brian - they are not that hard, given some practice with silver soldering and knowing (which I did not at first by any means) to get a range of torch nozzles (and a handle that could take them). Its amazing how much heat it takes to get a large chunk of copper up to temperature compared to other metals, it is SO good at wicking away heat and radiating it off. If only that pet dragon had not flown off...!
You're getting there, Chris! Find a hole, plug it up. Find a hole, plug it up.Solder, rinse, repeat...
Pretty soon, you'll have a leak-free boiler! :)
Kim
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:Munch munch munch... Cookies are good too... Needed to celebrate!
Well you gotta like that result! well done! Lotsa psi's on that gauge.
Congratulations Chris! I new you could do it :) :cheers:Thanks Kim!
Kim
Hi Chris, an aluminum ring in close contact with steel or brass or copper in a high temperature moist environment sounds like a recipe for corrosion trouble. I would not recommend using aluminum in the smoke bag/box.Thanks CNR - I had not thought of the corrosion issue. I like your Idea-1 - have plenty of bar stock, and have brass stock that will work for the door itself. The boiler shell is 3" ID, and I have stock up to 3" wide, but the ring needs to be just that bit bigger. Making the ring like that should work, and I can silver solder on the hinges to it.
Idea 1: what about rolling up a ring from rectangular / square steel or brass bar, and silver soldering the ends together? Rolling does not have to be perfect as you could soft solder the ring to a flat plate, hold it in the lathe chuck, and true up the face and id/od to perfect circles.
Idea 2: could you laminate a few thicknesses of thinner brass or steel sheet rings together to form a thick ring, with strategic silver soldered areas say 6 places around the diameters where screws were to be used? Only caution with this approach if made in steel would be trapped moisture could cause corrosion between laminations. (Learned about that from English car repairs! not a good idea where roads are salted in winter-I remember several Jaguar laminated A arms that looked like doily lace and could be folded in the hands- but I digress)
Thanks for the cookies! petty cash didn't even notice I took them. :Lol:I'd kinda like to see them doing the tire roll....
Suggestion - padlock the finished ring to something solid before the install, or you may have it disappear for the old "elf inside tire / ring rolling down a hill" scenario. Worse nowadays with the encouragement of "fail army" youtube videos...... :cheers:
Stack looks great Chris!They are 3/16" thick, so as long as it gets flow through the joint it ought to be strong enough. Just came back in from soldering them, figured once cool I would give it a good rap from the side to check the strength. The joint once finished will be about an inch long.
Re your side by side bars for the plate construction - Not sure how thick the plate is planned to be, but if thin, there could be an issue of strength with the silver solder along a thin butt joint between the side by side bars. If using the side by side bar method, might be a good idea to make a rabbet on both and overlap them for silver soldering. This would make a very strong Z shaped joint with more area of solder penetration. Just food for thought. :shrug: :cheers:
Post 101...I'm a little confused. Are the pictures reversed or were you turning in reverse? If in reverse...why?Ah, no, the first picture I was boring the center out as a taper. In the second picture I was turning the outside down to the same taper. The center was bored first so I could use the steady rest on the outside while it was still a parallel cylinder. In the second picture, I put a disc with a hole in the end of the bore to give the live center something to push against. Hope that clears it up?
Hmmmm - question for you all - getting close to parts for the smokebox, and realized that I didn't have any steel/brass bar stock wide enough to make the smokebox door ring. I do have aluminum pieces big enough though. The melting point of ali is up over 1200F, so it should be able to take boiler temperatures, but it will be in line with the firetube and the flame-hot gasses from the burner. So, would it work out to make the door ring from ali, or is that asking for trouble?
Good data point, thanks! I've started on the ring in brass already, but maybe it would be a good test for future projects of mine to put a aluminum piece in front of it as a deflector to test how it holds up, for future reference and build confidence in my mind. This case is bound to happen again on another boiler.Hmmmm - question for you all - getting close to parts for the smokebox, and realized that I didn't have any steel/brass bar stock wide enough to make the smokebox door ring. I do have aluminum pieces big enough though. The melting point of ali is up over 1200F, so it should be able to take boiler temperatures, but it will be in line with the firetube and the flame-hot gasses from the burner. So, would it work out to make the door ring from ali, or is that asking for trouble?
Chris. The pettycoat in my livestream locomotive is aluminum. This sits inside the smoke box to create the Venturi to draw the hot gasses thru the flue tubes and up the stack. It’s been there for 20 years. I’ve had no problems.
Good data point, thanks! I've started on the ring in brass already, but maybe it would be a good test for future projects of mine to put a aluminum piece in front of it as a deflector to test how it holds up, for future reference and build confidence in my mind. This case is bound to happen again on another boiler.Hmmmm - question for you all - getting close to parts for the smokebox, and realized that I didn't have any steel/brass bar stock wide enough to make the smokebox door ring. I do have aluminum pieces big enough though. The melting point of ali is up over 1200F, so it should be able to take boiler temperatures, but it will be in line with the firetube and the flame-hot gasses from the burner. So, would it work out to make the door ring from ali, or is that asking for trouble?
Chris. The pettycoat in my livestream locomotive is aluminum. This sits inside the smoke box to create the Venturi to draw the hot gasses thru the flue tubes and up the stack. It’s been there for 20 years. I’ve had no problems.
On mine, it is a butane burner at the back end of the firetube. Are yours butane or coal?
Post 101...I'm a little confused. Are the pictures reversed or were you turning in reverse? If in reverse...why?Ah, no, the first picture I was boring the center out as a taper. In the second picture I was turning the outside down to the same taper. The center was bored first so I could use the steady rest on the outside while it was still a parallel cylinder. In the second picture, I put a disc with a hole in the end of the bore to give the live center something to push against. Hope that clears it up?
Post 101...I'm a little confused. Are the pictures reversed or were you turning in reverse? If in reverse...why?Ah, no, the first picture I was boring the center out as a taper. In the second picture I was turning the outside down to the same taper. The center was bored first so I could use the steady rest on the outside while it was still a parallel cylinder. In the second picture, I put a disc with a hole in the end of the bore to give the live center something to push against. Hope that clears it up?
I didn't mean the operations. The boring bar and the cutter are on the far side of the lathe. The motor would be turning in reverse. I'm wondering why the tool post isn't on the near side.
Maybe I'm not seeing the obvious.
:popcornsmall::cheers:
Cheers
Rich
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Door and ring look great Chris.
Could almost double as an elf tank turret with the stack acting like a blunderbuss . Be careful if you hear a muffled "button up!" command followed by a clang from the door, and then you see cookie crumb ammo being loaded into the stack. :Lol:
(no, I wasn't into the Navy rum at lunch time - the imagination just got rolling when I saw your smoke box and stack parts!)
glad you are making good use of the Ti strips, they have helped me quite a bit on few soldering jobs..Its amazing that the torch will get them glowing red, but they dont stick or lose tension. I like them! :cheers:
:Love::cheers: :cheers:
:cheers:
DON
On a full size engine, the smokebox door has a baffle plate spaced off the back of it with an air gap for that reason.I had forgotten about the baffle plate - dont have a picture of one on a loco, but here is one on the smokebox door on the Marion shovel (it has a split hinged door, this is one half of the door). The smokebox on that boiler is quite short.
Phil
MJM? er..... no, that was me with the long dart and crossbar blurb.....just FYI :atcomputer: :cheers:Whoops! Sorry! Going through too many threads.
:ThumbsUp:Depends how long you leave it in, the longer the deeper. I only took off about 6 or 7 thou, the plate was only 15 thou thick to start. If you leave it in too long, it will start to undercut the edges of the mask, so there is a limit when doing fine detail. For small scale nameplates, its plenty, if you want a large plate with deep relief, like on a big hit/miss plate, its not really enough. I used the same process on the plates for the Marion shovel:
Very cool Chris!
How much material is removed in the etching process you used?
John
Great result Chris! The name plate looks fantastic. Like the Louisiana Latch Limiters from Don too. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:The Triple-L By D Company!
That's pretty cool. Something to put in my reference book. :ThumbsUp:Its a very simple but handy technique - for a penny or two in materials, salt and distilled water, saves spending big bucks to have a commercial place photo etch nameplates. It was after getting the one for the Lombard done that way, for a lot of money, then could not get them to do more for the Marion, that I looked around the web and found out how easy it is to do. Home jewelry makers have been doing it this way for years.
Looking fabulous.Thanks Gary! :cheers:
Amazing attention to detail!
:cheers:
As I recall the Mann boiler you are making is a single flue gas fired one, the firebox is not a "hot" one, but for structure and appearance, correct?Correct, the firebox is a dummy shell, it will overhang the back of the working boiler and hide the back of the burner. On the Mann boilers, the backhead was not a vertical plate like a typical loco boiler, but it curved back and angled down, leaving room for the transmission behind and below the crankshaft.
(if so, I would keep an eye out for elf activity inside it - if you see them making any plates with holes or gridwork racking they may be building storage for their beer and Navy rum stash inside the firebox.......be diligent :Lol: )
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Somebody did a LOT of hammering with a BIG hammer to beat those curved plates into submission.Talk about the noisy neighbors!
Don
The little trailer?
A WWII bomb cart?
Sid
"EDIT: found out about a similar tool, a ring roller, which only does up to about 1" wide bar, but can go much thicker than slip rolls... Hmmm..."Here is one I found:
Can you share more about this one? I too am looking for similar. I was thinking about making the GHT scaled up one.
Thanks for the info and review of the roller!:cheers:
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:I know what you mean, have seen that at model train shows a number of times. For me, I like the looks of the simple stripes around the edge that Mann used, like on the one in Vancouver:
The Mann looks great!
Just my opinion - If you start pinstriping there's no end to it. Just a comment. And on a UK made prototype shown on a forum or in public there seems to always be endless "expert" pedants / complainers / rivet counters saying the colour is wrong, the order is wrong, the width is wrong, that company didn't do it that way, the gloss is wrong - you get the idea. I think that is why US and Canadian firms often had simple no stripe minimum decoration paint schemes on their traction products and locomotives.
Taking pride in a product is great, but a pinstripe never made an engine pull more, steam better, or last longer, the things that satisfy customers, as far as I know. Nothing wrong with pride of workmanship, but the pedants make a religion of stripes and paint. Ignoring the complainers is a good way to deal with that, in my opinion.
Hi ChrisThats right. I prefer 303 stainless for most parts, machines well. Started using it when I built Kozos Shay, he recommended it in his book. Sometimes I use 1144 stressproof steel, for large odd shape parts where any warping would be a problem.
Great topic, :ThumbsUp: following along daily.
You mentioned above the clamps were 303 steel, is that stainless 303 ???
Cheers
Rich
Hi ChrisHi Rich,
The reason I asked about the 303 stainless is that it is only available in round bar here in the Uk. I have looked to try and source 303 bar but with no luck
Cheers
Rich
Awesome work!!!..... :Love:Thanks Don! :DrinkPint:
:drinking-41:
Don
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
You've been framed! (at least on one side) :Lol:
The arrow box is a good idea for the pickle. Another thought - On a job where I had to make a long quench tank for heat treat on an odd very long gearshift linkage part I used aluminum eavestroughing, with the end caps siliconed on. That worked well and of course you can get eavestrough any length you need - afterward you can use the shop slogan "our best work is done in the gutter". :Lol:
Your frames look great Chris. Do they bolt up to pads on side of the boiler of the Mann, or is there a sling or stirrup crossmember bracket under the boiler that connects the frames to the steering axle mount bracket? :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:Both - there are sets of bushings in the boiler for frame mounting studs - two each side for the lower cab frame, one each side for the end of the main frame, one pair on the backhead for the front main frame crossmember. The main frame also ties into the cab subframe in two places each side and there are cab frame crossmembers side to side to tie it all together, so the boiler can sit in a cradle. The front axle post has a single rod coming back to the bottom of the firebox as well. The horn plates attach to the front of the main frame and overlap for several inches, that will also stiffen up the whole assembly. I've got some 1/16" steel plate coming for the horn plates, which will hold the crankshaft and the transmission shafts. Just like a typical traction engine, there is a lot of machinery packed into a small space - wonder how many dozen times it will get taken apart/put back together to add the next component!
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:Ignoring THAT pun! :facepalm2:
Some hoggin' goin' on in Chris's shop today!
I'd rather have a cross member than a happy unconnected member...... :facepalm: :Lol:
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Great progress Chris.Don't tell them, but it only has a range of a hundred feet or two, so I'll get a call to go next door and push them back! :Lol:
Re belts for the Mamod - I'd say if you get a set of belts and seal washers for the Mamod truck you may find the shop elves have steamed up and b^gg6r6d off one day. A "severe flight risk" as the actors say in the TV courtroom bail hearings. :Lol:
You already know they read the forums. You now have proof that they are making on-line purchases... How much of a stretch is it to think that the eleves just might have hacked your computer and read the replies before you actually send them?I was a software engineer fir several decades, it was a looong time before I got a computer at home. Still don't have a smart phone... And I think its abacusssessesiii
Think about your cyber-security old fellow, it's not being paranoid if they ACTUALLY are out to get you.
And yes, despite being an electrical engineer, I DO periodically campaign for a return to clay tablets, sharp sticks and abacusssesses - or is that abacii?
Don
Just for giggles, I checked the maps to see how far to drive out to see the Mann truck in Vancouver....When the Border does open and you decide to make the trip, swing by and I will go with you with a couple of elves. About shoving the elves aside to get to the fridge, don't do it around my elves they have "the right to keep knives" (they tried the right to bear arms, but even with subsonic 22's they were knocked over with the recoil and could not hit the target), I found a friendly shout of "hay Joe pass me one" works, but you can't be fussy about what you get. With them having there own truck watch out they may set up refilling stations every 100'.
Ahahahahaaa! 2850 miles!! Each way! :o :ShakeHead:
Good thing that the US/Canada border is closed so I have an excuse not to go.
Just for giggles, I checked the maps to see how far to drive out to see the Mann truck in Vancouver....When the Border does open and you decide to make the trip, swing by and I will go with you with a couple of elves. About shoving the elves aside to get to the fridge, don't do it around my elves they have "the right to keep knives" (they tried the right to bear arms, but even with subsonic 22's they were knocked over with the recoil and could not hit the target), I found a friendly shout of "hay Joe pass me one" works, but you can't be fussy about what you get. With them having there own truck watch out they may set up refilling stations every 100'.
Ahahahahaaa! 2850 miles!! Each way! :o :ShakeHead:
Good thing that the US/Canada border is closed so I have an excuse not to go.
Stay Safe, Stay Healthy, Stay Home.
Gerald.
Gerald.
:ThumbsUp: ..... :Love:
:cheers:
Don
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:(https://i.postimg.cc/sXh0d2zR/Tank.jpg)
Tanks for posting! :facepalm: :Lol:
Here is something from McMaster-Carr that I've used.Looks like it would do the trick. How do you cut it to length, an abrasive wheel?
They have a variety of thickness/width.
https://www.mcmaster.com/9075K7/ (https://www.mcmaster.com/9075K7/)
Sid
I made leaf springs for Kozo engine from spring steel strips. A friend of mine had a punch that did the center hole, and a shear for cutting to length. I suspect a chisel and hammer would suffice for this followed by grinding the ends.Got some spring steel on order, two different thicknesses to experiment and see what works for the weight of this model, and may be different between front/rear axles.
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:That was Elfred - not in the picture since he fell off the workbench! :Lol:
Are you sure Elfric didn't have one too many Elfensteiner stubbies on his lunch break? :Lol:
:ThumbsUp:I used the ring roller that I got a couple weeks ago, the bar just fit in the rollers. Then cut off the ends at an angle. The bend was just a little too much, flattened the ends back a bit in the vise.
Looks good!
How did you get such a clean, smooth bend in the curved piece?
John
My train may end up being driven by Batman!!!:Lol:
Here is something from McMaster-Carr that I've used.Looks like it would do the trick. How do you cut it to length, an abrasive wheel?
They have a variety of thickness/width.
https://www.mcmaster.com/9075K7/ (https://www.mcmaster.com/9075K7/)
Sid
:cheers:
The coils I got are .050 and .060", so I don't think the snips will work. I have a mini chop saw with an abrasive wheel that should work fine.Here is something from McMaster-Carr that I've used.Looks like it would do the trick. How do you cut it to length, an abrasive wheel?
They have a variety of thickness/width.
https://www.mcmaster.com/9075K7/ (https://www.mcmaster.com/9075K7/)
Sid
:cheers:
Chris- sorry for the late response.
I just used my Wiss aviation snips. In that thickness it wouldn't be an issue. I know the material I cut was probably closer to .020"
Sid
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:Thanks for the tip - I have not cut any thick spring stock before! :ThumbsUp:
You probably already know this Chris, but when cutting part-hard or full-hard spring steel with abrasive wheels, it's important to keep the steel cool by dipping it in a container of water, often. Just like HSS lathe tools if you hold them in your fingers while grinding they soon let you know when to dip them in water! :o :zap:
Your cab frames are looking good! :cheers:
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:Thanks CNR, this machine is quite interesting to build, there are so many parts of the structure that do multiple things, I love the challenge of working out the order of making things. :cheers:
Will the shafts be running in their own bearings or just in the horn plates?There will be bearing holders bolted to the holes, with bronze bearings inside them. When I said the horn plates were done, thats not really true, need to drill more holes for the bearing holders. The shafts will be something like .25" or.3125" diameter at the ends, I forget the exact dimensions, stepped to hold them in place. The bearings are simple tubes, don't need to be split so easy to make.
John
Chris,
You're making good progress, looks great. As long as the glass was full of Jamacan rum, that's ok right?
Art.
Watching every day Chris.---Great stuff!!! :pinkelephant: :pinkelephant:I love this part of the project, far enough in to see what it will be, but lots more fun to go.
Hi. yes it is always good to see it tacking shape and getting some paint on it means the end is not too far away !!Doesn't mean that in this case, since I am painting as I go.... Probably another five or six months. Give or take six months! :Lol:
willy
Nice work as always Chris and moving at a fast pace. Dog if I didn’t know better you would think your starting your own steam museum.........did I say...............I ...............like............ :Love:Thanks Don - the steam museum would be a lot easier to set up if the next door neighbors would go on a long enough vacation so I could build the connecting wing and cut thier house in half.... But, all the yelling... :LittleDevil:
:cheers:
Don
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:Yeah, made all that time sitting on the couch watching car customizing programs all worth it! ::)
The hammer thump looks like it worked to make the hump! :Lol:
Very tidy looking cover set. :cheers:
This is great stuff Chris. I haven't seen what you are currently doing before.---BrianThats one of the fun things with making whole vehicles, so many different types of things to be make, more things to learn.
those look very very nice,, do you have them up for sale on shapeways?I did not, but just added them to my storefront there (someday may even make a sale!). I never figured on doing much selling there, had set it up back when I had a sample of the Marion steam shovel bucket printed just to see what the process was about. If you need a scaled-up version, let me know, its easy to do (not sure if the website there allows you to do that yourself). Given the current shutdown restrictions, shapeways is taking longer to fill orders and in some areas is not taking casting orders for certain materials - all depends where you live and which factory they use for your area.
Chris- I looked at the parts from Shapeways.Should say on the shapeways listing - 3/16" OD tubing will just fit in the parts.
They look very nice!
Maybe I missed it somewhere, but what size tubing are they designed for?
Thanks, Sid
Faux bolts would be better than three bolts, or five bolts. :Lol:Hmmm... after the pre-lunch tot of grog?! O:-)
(semi sorry - off for my lunchtime tot of grog) :facepalm:
Chris:Those are just the tool marks from turning them down on the lathe - the 'wings' are thin, so the flexed a little and left visible but not feel-able rings.
What are the concentric rings on the back of the holders for?
Don
looks great, that's a lot of drilling and tapping but all the nuts give it the correct look..Finished getting all the nuts on the studs holding the bearing holders installed, quite tedious! There is not enough room for a nut driver, so had to use small needle nose pliers to hold the nuts while turning the screw from the other side to get them started.
You left those hornplates and a couple of bearings in a dark room alone, didn't you? The bearings have definitely multiplied! Lookin great.What happens in the toolbox, stays in the toolbox! :LittleDevil:
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Chris:
Obviously, the next part on the todo list is the Turbo Encabulator.
Don
Not the gyrolyzing hablifier ? (with nucleating rheological feedback passageways) :Lol:You've been mixing Elfensteiner beer with Oreos again...
That's amazing! How could you tell? :DrinkPint: :shrug:Because you spelled 'gyrolyzing' correctly! :Lol:
Very interesting process, Chris. :popcorn: :popcorn:Got the first one shaped out, I think its going to work out. The finished plate looks quite slender, but with the dished shape to the spokes, it is surprisingly rigid, and will have a steel rim around between the two plates at the outside edge, plus a spacer at the center hub. Here is a photo sequence of making the first one:
I'm excited to see how it will all come together here!
Kim
Hi Chris, the appearance of the wheel is great! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: I do have a concern about strength though. Is there any plan to reinforce the copper spokes , ie doubling them up or adding a rib soldered to the backs of them to make a T shape, or something? I'd hate to see someone lean on the wheel or a kid sit on the truck and have a wheel collapse sideways, wrecking all your work. Annealed thin copper is not too strong against bending, particularly when it has been pre-formed. Just food for thought. I would not be worried if the wheel centres were 16 ga steel sheet, reinforced with rolled strips as you mentioned.I've been debating the same thing, they just look so slender, but they take a lot of force without bending due to the taper that was formed in. Remember that the annealing was done before forming, not after, so I dont follow your 'pre-formed' comment. Putting in a narrower steel spoke between the two might work out - that spoke could be straight rather than tapered, and would not be very visible. Hmmmm..... Have to experiment with that idea! The steel discs could fit against a step in the hub, or maybe be separate spokes, sort of like what Brian has been doing on his Stephenson build.... :thinking:
Hi Chris, what I meant with the pre-formed comment was just that doing any forming to a piece of sheet or rod stock makes a point where bending will happen first if load is applied later. Good analogy is the crease on a car fender. If any force is applied later it will bend at the crease. With an unbent sheet it is hard to say where bending may occur under load.Gotcha!! Thanks. I am thinking that I will take your idea of another steel spoke disc inside the two copper ones, with narrower spokes so they don't show. Great idea, thanks!
Another way to think of the loading, although not the same as your wheels, is wire formed bicycle spokes. They are very small and very strong and work beautifully to support huge loads for the size of the wire. However if they are ever bent or kinked in the span between rim and hub they will bend and fail there with loads later.
Hope this helps. :cheers:
Chris--I use a lot of 6061 in the models I build, and it is quite stable. I have never seen it move like steel or brass during or after machining.---BrianExcellent! That will make fabricating the spokes a lot easier. Thanks!!
if it is a strip material it may be extruded with may be better if it is sheet it could be rolled i don't know but it would depend on the size. i have had sheet move just like the other materials .I usually try and take the same amount of both sides and make sure to machine both sides.some times it will move and other times it does notThanks John, it is 3/8" x 6" flat bar. Guess I will find out some while cutting out the discs, see if the saw kerfs change widths.
care in how it is held not to put any load or stress on the material the size you may use it may not be noticeable .
I am following your build your making great progress.
John
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:The real ones have a pattern of bolts, figure I will mimic that layout. Several bolts at the outer end of each spoke, and a ring around the hub at the base of the spokes.
That construction looks VERY strong Chris, and also very realistic. Well done!
In the centre-to-side flange joints, you might be able to get away with some good epoxy type glue between alum and copper and very few tiny screws. :cheers:
Careful there Chris, looks like you picked up a screw in that tire - it's gonna go flat on ya.That ali is tough to reinflate too! :lolb:
That must be why the air force had those 2000 psi three stage air compressors on the old bombers......Just had a thought, those are not stray screws, those are tire spikes for driving on ice! Yeah, thats it.... :Jester:
.....but with aluminum tires, if you have a TIG torch you will never need another tire patch, or tire cement...... :shrug: :Lol:
Wheels are looking great Chris! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Screws in the treads? what screws in the treads? :Lol: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn::facepalm2: Gotta send out the ninja attack elves again to put swarf in his socks....
“You Da man Dog”...........awesome results...... :Love:
:drinking-41:
Don
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:I'll give that a try - thanks! There is about 1/4" of room around the wheel rim. I've also got some thin closed cell foam for the boats, may try a layer of that. It sounds like those water-glass instruments now!
That's a hefty job for the Sherline, but it's getting through it! For the ringing, try wrapping the pipe with a few layers of masking tape to damp the vibes. You could also try solder wrapped around it but you may not have room between ring and lathe bed for a piece of cigarette paper- let alone solder...... :o
Ring turning should not be like a Peter Appleyard vibraphone concert at dial setting 11. :Lol:
ChrisThis rim is A36 steel, not cast iron, not sure how that would be different. I found that cranking up the speed a bit helped me, since at low speeds the Sherline just does not have enough oomph and would bog down - faster it cut better. Also needed to swap to a new cutter tip on the inserts. Lots and lots of light cuts still. The surface of the pipe had some hard crusty spots, fortunately not much. These wheels are 1-1/4" wide, so it would have taken a long end mill to do the work on the rotary table on the mill. This way worked out for me, there was a little chatter but not bad, and it sands out. When I was turning the flywheel for the MEM Corliss I built, the flywheel was too big to turn over the ways, and I had to rotate the headstock 90 degrees and let the flywheel hang off the back of the lathe.
I’m learning a lot following this thread; and I’ll put it to use shortly. On my current project I need to turn a 13 inch flywheel and I have a 12 inch lathe. Ain’t gonna happen unless I take the gap insert out, but even we’re I to do that, at 70 RPM As it’s slowest speed, I’m not sure even carbide tooling would cut cast iron on a 13 inch diameter at that speed.
I was thinking this would be a turntable project, and you certainly have given me some ideas on how to address that.
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:Very little, but the discs are aluminum rather than steel. No ringing, just having to stop and add oil to the cutter to keep the aluminum from galling to the tip and building up while narrowing the rims. The hss cutter in the compound slide for tapering is not doing that like the insert did. Still having to stop every pass to clear the long curls. All reasons I love turning brass so much! Nice clean small chips.
Did the discs ring much during turning Chris, like the rims were? Just curious. :cheers:
Any shop elves showing up for work in clerical robes and collars yet? Cause that wheel is holy already! :Lol:Back to your cell! Gruel and silence for a fortnight! :Lol:
Very "nutty" project those wheels.
Do you ever get where you look at what you’re doing and declare “wow man, this thing looks like an excellent candidate for the scrap bin?”, only to perceiver and have everything come out ok after all?Not too many, though there are a bunch where halfway through I realized that I was doing it the hard way, and could have been done if used a different way. Usually the ones that get turned into RC boat ballast are the ones with a fatal mistake, something the wrong size or broken off, holes in the wrong place, things like that. Still have some partly made models that still get scavenged for parts.
Love the wheels dog you give me more in site on future wheels and flywheel fabrications....... :Love:Thanks Don. I've never made a flywheel quite this way, the MEM Corliss one was close, but the spokes slipped through the rim. This seems like a good way for large diameter ones, as long as suitable pipe for the rim can be found. This A36 steel cuts okay, not great but good enough.
:cheers:
Don
Great looking wheels, Chris!Hi Kim,
I'm not exactly seeing the interference issue with the front wheels, but maybe that's a perspective thing from the picture. Or maybe I just don't understand how the steering works - do the wheels pivot as in a modern car? Or does the whole front axle swivel like an old tractor?
Kim
Not really relevant but the Sentinel Waggons had a neat arrangement for the differential, it was built into the crankshaft inside the engine casings.Read about several styles in the books, some had the diff back in the transmission (or crankshaft), with a output chain per wheel. The undertype wagons were usually very different than this overtype wagon, combining things for space.
My old Austin 7 diff was the type that used spur gears.
Phil
... As I was typing that in, Surus must have heard the word 'casting' in the far far far distance.... He couldn't make it here in time (guess he can't swim the Atlantic that fast), so he sent over his American (very distant) cousin, Dogbert, to confiscate the castings for proper aging... :ROFL:
(https://i.postimg.cc/85297c7Z/IMG-7538.jpg)
Great looking wheels, Chris!Hi Kim,
I'm not exactly seeing the interference issue with the front wheels, but maybe that's a perspective thing from the picture. Or maybe I just don't understand how the steering works - do the wheels pivot as in a modern car? Or does the whole front axle swivel like an old tractor?
Kim
In that photo you can't see it, but at the front edge of the subframe is a curved rail that goes under the boiler from side to side. The front axle is like an old tractor, or like an old kids wagon, where the whole axle pivots in the middle. Some other brands of steam wagons used the automotive style Ackerman steering where there is a pivot at the end of the axle to move just the wheel. Since it pivots in the middle, the inside wheel moves back just under the subframe at full turn, and it would have hit that arched bar. So, tonight I cut that off and put in a new bar that bolts to the second crossbar in the subframe, well out of way of the wheel.
Found it - knew that there was a picture that would show the arched bar:
(https://i.postimg.cc/PJjRCFnY/IMG-7358.jpg)
It is visible at the right hand end of the frame, just behind the smokebox joint, going down and under the boiler. I bent up a new flat bar that bolted to the crossbar one to the left, and cut this original one off with an abrasive wheel on the flex-shaft.
Wow!What a great project! Useful and saves the old equipment. :cheers:
Very, very nice. The wheels are beautiful, and the taper lock arrangement is extremely tidy. Overall, another amazing build from yourself. :cheers:
One of my long term projects is building a lineshaft in the workshop at my place in France. Even longer term now as I currently can't get over there without having to quarantine when I come back. Most of the gear (hangers, pulleys, shafting, bearings) came from a sock factory in Leicester, England (via ebay). I was surprised to find that the bearings are self-adjusting and taper lock. Very nice and rock solid. I assumed they would just be plain bearings. I guess it depends on how old the gear is.
It's looking burnout-ready! Great work Chris, and you are right, Mr. Chuck Fellows' taper locks are a beautiful design for holding wheels and flywheels to shafts. :cheers:Steel wheels on a big piece of flint - HUGE showers of sparks! :Lol:
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Now for burnouts........where's that flat iron road plate and that can of oil? Can we get to 500 rpm at the rear wheels without causing an earthquake? :Lol:
All looking good:cheers:
Sent from my G3121 using Tapatalk
Man that spring and bearing setup is brill, just what i will need for my AEC, bookmarked :-)AEC? Al-ehhhh-chin? :Lol:
Somebody gonna be goin' to the Big House for an OWI over this one? Better put that Elfenstiener under lock and key - a NEW lock since they duplicated the key for the old lock.Just realized, the elves made the lock for me..... :embarassed:
Is it true that radius rods are half the work of diameter rods ? :insane: :Lol:
Looking great! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Yes master...... rrrrrrggghrrrr...... (in best "Lurch" voice from the Munsters.) :Lol:Yoooouuuuu Raaaaannnnngggg?
very inspirational, shame your h&S leaves something to be desired :-D :-DShop elves are tough! :Lol:
rollover - "less than optimal" as we used to say during big cockups at the big X...... :Lol:
Sounds like a fun outing at the sub / boat pond. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
I am getting ready to work on the differential, and went back to the page on the ModelEngineeringWebsite that has a great article I have used in the past, but the link in thier index does not work.
Whoops - sorry, forgot the title/link. It is the HOW TO CUT MITRE AND BEVEL GEARS (https://modelengineeringwebsite.com/Site_2/How_to_cut_mitre_gears.html) one. I did hear back from David, and as Jason suggested he has moved that article to his DVD nbr 3, which I can order from his site. He has collected up groups of the articles/plans and put them on DVD rather than maintain the huge collection online.I am getting ready to work on the differential, and went back to the page on the ModelEngineeringWebsite that has a great article I have used in the past, but the link in thier index does not work.
Do you have any more details about the link? Its title may help.
Jo
Somewhere on my Stothert and Pitt thread I explained bevel gear cutting :headscratch:Thats a great summary of the formulas - thanks Jo!!!!
Edit: Found it : http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,838.msg11533.html#msg11533 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,838.msg11533.html#msg11533) :)
Jo
| Bevel Gear Calculations | ||||
| Gear Module | 0.60 | 0.60 | ||
| DP | 42.33333 | 42.33333 | ||
| Depth Of Cut | 0.053685 | |||
| Gear 1 Number Of Teeth | 72 | Gear 2 Number Of Teeth | 15 | |
| Pitch Diameter | 1.700787 | 0.354331 | ||
| Outside Diameter | 1.710423 | 0.400582 | ||
| Bevel Angle | 78.23171 | 11.76829 | ||
| Degrees Per Tooth | 5 | 24 | ||
| Number Of Teeth For Cutter Selection | 353.0203 | 15.32206 | ||
| Offset For Second/Third Cuts | 0.018551 | 0.018519 | ||
| Forward/Back Roll For Second/Third Cuts | 1.25 | 6 |
Chris my sheet agrees except for the cutter no of teeth. It uses this formula ((1)÷SIN(pitch cone angle)×No of teeth) which come up to 74 teeth for both gears.Hmmmm.... Thats quite a difference. I had based it off a bevel gear calculator I found online here:
Don
Hi Chris ..good progress here and the painting shows up well.. do you have a supply of left hand taps and dies or do you have to make them ? I have quite a few from the carrot sales we have here in Blighty !!Hi Willy, don't have any left hand taps or dies, for the radius rod turnbuckle I need to pull the end bolt to adjust the length, but that was a one-time thing, should not have to do it again.
willy
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:They've been using the wire brush from the soldering gear... :LittleDevil:
Nice bit of dental work on those teeth! After all gears are cut, will you give the shop elves each a new toothbrush and some floss? :Lol:
Chris--I would like to build the engine shown in this animation. I have searched the internet and can't find anything similar. I am really interested in the valve being in line with and part of the cylinder. do you know of a source for paper drawings, or better yet a 3D model I can open.---BrianBrian, those plans the video shows are the ones Julius did, those are the only ones I know of. Did a little searching, didnt see anything else. On your Trevithick thread Julius offered to send you the PDF files he has. Other than that I have nothing, sorry. It is a fascinating valve setup, the video does a great job showing the operation of it. Reminds me a bit of how the locomotive steam pumps work, with the piston rod moving the valves.
[youtube1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rul0iazn3d8[/youtube1]
Is the way you are keeping the axle halves lined up through the differential similar to what was done on the full-sized version? If not do you know how they kept the axles halves lined up through the diff? There's got to be a lot of forces wanting to tear that thing apart.Hi don, I don't know how the real rear axle is constructed, have not seen any diagrams of how Mann did it. On the Lombard, there was a frame plate that supported the center, but the Mann does not, and the movement of the leaf springs would prevent that method. The pictures I got from the museum show no case around it like a modern car would have. So, I came up with a way that works for the model and outwardly looks like the real one, with a narrower extension of the right halfshaft through the center of the left halfshaft. Someday I will get out to Vancouver and see what I can determine. You are right about the forces, just moving parts around while assembling the parts, it wants to twist till its all together.
Don
ChrisAwesome Phil! Hmmmm.... now I'll have to build one of those too...!
There is a PDF file available for a Clayton Undertype wagon on the UK Model Engineer website.
https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/sites/7/documents/clayton.pdf (https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/sites/7/documents/clayton.pdf)
Look at page 1345 and it shows how to construct the axle and differential.
Phil
Do you plan to drive to the show on the Information Superhighway (watch for potholes) or take the ferry across the Data River? (don't forget the Navy rum) :Lol:
:cheers:
PS who's the current drummer in the Brake Band? :facepalm: :Lol:
:ThumbsUp:Thanks John!
Great details Chris!
John
Looking at the pictures you could think it was full scale :-)Thanks Bernie - best compliment!
When driving a truck or tractor with iffy brakes on hills, throwing out the anchor as the last resort to get stopped is one thing, but the >>>TWANG<<<< when the chain comes taut is quite another. :oMaybe thats why they invented bungie cord! :lolb: Strrreeetcccchhhh.... Zing - back up and over the hill!
Brings new meaning to the phrase "all hands on deck"......... :o
(Don't ask me how I know.) :cheers:
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
BAD PUN ALERT---------------------------------------BAD PUN ALERT------------------------------BAD PUN ALERT------------------
Working with that wood must have been a nice brake from all the metalwork...... :facepalm: :Lol:
Well, rather working in the shop today, the elves decided we needed more mint chocolate chip cookies (I agree! ) so they got started after lunch in the kitchen.
To do the same on the left/right sides, the vise had to be turned 1.6 degrees - handy used for my new (to me, found on ebay - prices for a new one are stupid high) Starret protractor.
Just sent the elves over with bags o corn in thier truck. No guarantees that it will get there uneaten...To do the same on the left/right sides, the vise had to be turned 1.6 degrees - handy used for my new (to me, found on ebay - prices for a new one are stupid high) Starret protractor.
It's nice to be able to use those rarely used but really nice to have tools. I haven't found one cheap enough yet and had the cash on hand, seems like some other expenditure is always in front.
As always Chris, I love the work you're doing. Don't hog the popcorn, I'll want some too! :popcorn: :popcorn:
How many turns of the steering wheel are needed for a 90 degree turn? Seems sharp turns are not this truck's forte.A bit more than a normal car, 5 or 6 max side to side. Don't think a five ton truck with hundreds of gallons of water in boiler and tanks is intended for racing at Silverstone anyway!
Chris it does not look like the shafts os the bevel gears are on the same plane. This type of bevel gear is a bit more complicated, Kozo did one for the Climax, but it would be much simpler to set both gears on the same plane if possible.Well, they are in a plane, just that the plane is rotated up from level. According to the CAD model, the shafts are at a 107 degree angle from one another. Should just be a matter of making two 53.5 degree bevel gears, right? Or is there another wrinkle that I have not learned yet - a distinct possibility! The gear on the worm gear shaft is on a horizontal shaft crosswise to the truck, the one one the steering column angles out and out. The angle between them is fixed, and the shafts are on a common plane.
Cheers Dan
ChrisInteresting! I've been looking through the photos and books I have, and have found at least four variants in the Mann steering gears. Both outboard and inboard on the bevel gear you show, the bevel gear inboard with the one on the steering shaft outboard, some with the worm gear on the front of the pillar, some with it on the back side! They made a lot of various models of the cargo area at customer needs, but I would have thought the front steering would be more standard. Guess not. So, looks like I can pick whats easiest to make. Currently leaning towards having the horizontal bevel gear inboard, and the one on the steering shaft outboard. This will give a smaller bevel gear, and keep it farther from the worm pinion gear. I have photos of this arrangement on a Mann truck, so there is precedent. Fun!
I think you were nearer to the prototype design with your first efforts. Look at this photo and zoom in so you can see that the horizontal shaft with the worm has the bevel gear on the outboard of the one on the steering shaft.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/23689245@N08/32757608896 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/23689245@N08/32757608896)
Phil
Looks like the worm gear needs to be left handed. Or when you turn right it will go left.
Ralph
Oh, and while the other option is to remake the worm gear left handed, that is not a possible combination with the Sherline threading attachment for 9 tpi.
ChrisAh, that explains it, thanks!!
Just for info.
The photo of the red wagon is a bit misleading, that is actually the one we used to own and is a wagon that has been converted from a tractor.
As such the steering uses chains up to the axle and the worm and wheel drives the chain drum which is mounted on the lower front edge of the firebox which is more normal on a traction engine.
Phil
Now that is a good thought. Have to see what thier casting leadtime is now. When I had the pipe fittings made, it took several months due to the covid shutdown. Swapping the one gear over should work too.Oh, and while the other option is to remake the worm gear left handed, that is not a possible combination with the Sherline threading attachment for 9 tpi.
Might be a good option to get printed in metal by Shapeways.
Just to see, went over to Shapeways and checked, a small part cast in bronze would not be delivered till at least mid October! Rather make it all myself....Now that is a good thought. Have to see what thier casting leadtime is now. When I had the pipe fittings made, it took several months due to the covid shutdown. Swapping the one gear over should work too.Oh, and while the other option is to remake the worm gear left handed, that is not a possible combination with the Sherline threading attachment for 9 tpi.
Might be a good option to get printed in metal by Shapeways.
NO! With the setup as last drawn, turning the steering wheel right will turn the axle left!This reminds me of something I saw on TV once. Guy was doing some sort of psychological research, took a standard bicycle, put a gear on the fork stem, one on an offset handlebar stem. Totally messed with people who knew how to ride a bike, it was to ingrained to undo. Kids could ride it though after a few tries. Yeah don't go there.
Chris,Like those prism glasses that reverse left and right or up and down, after a while your brain adapts. Till you take them off! Clonk - wall!QuoteNO! With the setup as last drawn, turning the steering wheel right will turn the axle left!This reminds me of something I saw on TV once. Guy was doing some sort of psychological research, took a standard bicycle, put a gear on the fork stem, one on an offset handlebar stem. Totally messed with people who knew how to ride a bike, it was to ingrained to undo. Kids could ride it though after a few tries. Yeah don't go there.
Art
Chris,QuoteNO! With the setup as last drawn, turning the steering wheel right will turn the axle left!This reminds me of something I saw on TV once. Guy was doing some sort of psychological research, took a standard bicycle, put a gear on the fork stem, one on an offset handlebar stem. Totally messed with people who knew how to ride a bike, it was to ingrained to undo. Kids could ride it though after a few tries. Yeah don't go there.
Art
:whoohoo: I bet you're glad that's done. Doing complex stuff can be satisfying, but it's nice to see it work out and then give your poor brain a rest.That's ok, I'll hog the cookies!
Great job Chris :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: (yea, I'm hogging the popcorn) :ROFL: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Kirk,I think there are some people around here with that kind of reversed steering, left turns from right lane etc...
Just waiting for the guy to drive the jeep of the ramps trying to pull it onto the trailer, thump...
Art
steering gear is looking great, I'm learning many things watching this,, as for steering and comic relief,, there was a 1/4 mile dirt track near me when I lived in upstate NY,, one off the classes was a econo stock class(low buck racing) rules for the class was tires and suspension was to stay stock specs, by the 4th race of the year some cars were very cambered out and just about every mod to get them through the corners,, they had the field lined up to start the race made them shut down, read the rules over the PA ending with "tonight we will race around the track in the other direction, next weeks direction will be decided by a coin toss at race time" everybody was pretty "square" the next week..Reminds me of when I was a kid, and the local college had times when families could come in and skate on the hockey rink. Mostly they had people going one way around the rink to avoid head-on hits, it was really wierd when we would get used to turning one way, and they would have us switch and go the other way round!
they had the field lined up to start the race made them shut down, read the rules over the PA ending with "tonight we will race around the track in the other direction, next weeks direction will be decided by a coin toss at race time" everybody was pretty "square" the next week..:lolb: :lolb: :lolb:
Yeah, everyone knows you can't make any good parts with Sherline. >:DYeah they are just awful..ly good!
All righty.... I have all four of the new thrust bearing units for the Sherline made up, first one is installed, works fantastic. Later on today I'll get the others installed, and post a small thread on how they were made and included a set of pdf plans for them for any of you with a Sherline that wants to do the same. In the meantime, here is a photo of the first one installed, with the pieces for another laid out on the bench underneath:
(https://i.postimg.cc/rpZxkVkk/IMG-7742.jpg)
It is a cheap mod, just a few dollars for each bearing set, and a few short lengths of bar stock. I've sent other suggestions into Sherline in the past, they seem very entrenched in the original designs for everything. I did consider sending it in to one of the hobby machinist mags, wanted to share the plans here in any case (posted on another thread yesterday).All righty.... I have all four of the new thrust bearing units for the Sherline made up, first one is installed, works fantastic. Later on today I'll get the others installed, and post a small thread on how they were made and included a set of pdf plans for them for any of you with a Sherline that wants to do the same. In the meantime, here is a photo of the first one installed, with the pieces for another laid out on the bench underneath:
(https://i.postimg.cc/rpZxkVkk/IMG-7742.jpg)
That looks like a very simple (cheap?) mod and if it as good as you say Chris 8) Maybe you should send a copy of the drawings to Sherline or to a magazine for an article ;)
Jo
That looks good Chris, is there a universal before the steering wheel or does the driver have to put up with the steering wheel at a slight angle?No universals, the wheel is at a slight angle. I thought about adding one, but decided to keep it as original was. There is a bearing block on the side of the axle pillar, and another that will be added to one of the cab walls to support the long column. I will be adding a removeable gear up near the steering wheel to connect to a RC servo, have one that I can set to be up to 7 rotations.
:cheers:
Dan
Hi Chris, you know if you made the steering wheel rim hollow and with in and out pipe connections, a heated steering wheel would be a modern option! (not exactly BlueTooth, but might be RedHands, anyway.....) :Lol: :cheers:Turning left... ouch ouch ouch ouch!
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Well, okay! The elves were selling them fast, but I snagged you a window seat in row 6.... :lolb: Looks like something in an old Harold Lloyd movie. Instead of 'Mind the gap' its 'Mind the drop!':ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Save a chair for me
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Chris:Wow - you have been in lock-down WAY too long!! :lolb:
If you're concerned about the midnight Outlaw drag races down the hall, consider making the seat from a wood that the shop elves are allergic to. The volunteers for driver should taper off fairly quickly. You'll have to lock up the Saran Wrap though, or they'll just plastic wrap the seat.
Don
well a least you put in the brakes before it became rollable :lolb:Good point! Yeah, I planned that. Uh huh. Thats my story and I am loctited to it! :Jester:
Though... maybe George will make me a tiny Club steering wheel lock. Would need tweezers to put the key in though... Hmmm... I need to get out more too! :ROFL:At that scale, he'd have to make the key and lock parts for the club out of titanium or maybe solid carbide, maybe even Unobtainium, to keep them from just breaking in the lock when twisted.
Nice stack of solid gold gear blanks Chris! Like the "green wash" paint effect too.The elves are probably going to go for a bulk buy, get a whole gallon tanker on there! :ROFL:
The cargo bed looks like it would have room for hundreds of cases ofElfensteiner stubby bottled beerwholesome dry oatmeal. :Lol:
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
The bed looks really nice, Chris!The cab has not been started yet - the lower part of the subframe will hold the driver compartment, with a seat at the back edge just in front of the cargo bed. Here is a picture:
So where does the driver go? Does he/she just stand on the running board on the right side?
Kim
Hi Chris, looking good and coming along nicely..I have a 1920 motorbike with 2 gears that you have to stop to change gear !! also its quite easy to change gear without using the clutch, with helical gears in the box...!!On the bike, do the gears slide on parallel shafts into mesh? Is a helical gear better at that than straight tooth gears?
Hi Chris, great progress as usual. Really coming into shape now with a tray on the back.
These days when so many vehicles have automatic gear boxes, it is easy to forget that when many of us started driving, all cars were manual, most did not have synchro on first gear.
I also learned to drive 6x6 Studebaker trucks in military service. These had five gears plus reverse, and a second lever to give high and low ratio. No synchro anywhere. The technique was to depress the clutch and shift into neutral, release the clutch and accelerator to allow the engine to slow in neutral, then press the clutch again to shift up. Shifting down involved revving the engine up a bit in neutral. A bit of fancy coordination required. The five gears weren’t evenly spaced and first was a very low, even in high ratio, good for about 5 miles per hour in high ratio at max engine revs from memory. Made for some fancy foot work changing down on a gear on a steep hill, especially in low ratio.
I assume the gear clusters all slid on splines, but never had one apart.
MJM460
When I was in basic training in the Army in 1971, a few of us were picked to be drivers of 2.5T trucks, as it was necessary to cart provisions to remote areas of the base on occasion. The "driving test" was to start the motor, shift into 2nd gear, and drive for 100'. First gear is so low we never used it.These trucks were made from late 1800s up through early 1900s. By WWII they faded out, gas and diesel took over, but some lived on till 1960s in construction, especially the road rollers and tar sprayers.
In what time period were these steam trucks used? I assume late 19th century.
Chris:The tricky part was getting the mule to wear the overalls and hat... :Lol:
If you're going with hinged sides don't make them too high, remember it's only one person/elf that's going to lift that sucker back up after it's been flipped down. It used to take 3 men and a mule to lift the sides of the truck we had on the farm - and it wasn't that big of a truck. Of course they were solid wood sides with boards 3/4" thick. The sides were 4-5' tall and probably 12-14' long, with a flip up 2' stock rack on top of that. It's been 50 years since I had to work on that truck and the memories fade a little, I do remember that they were HEAVY.
Don
so are we going to make some jig blocks and form some strap hinges,, brass sheet and some "blacken it" would work nicely,,
[youtube1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLtksqAz5Fs[/youtube1]
With all those hinge and latch and corner bracket bits, the shop elves are going to be busy! Hopefully that will keep them out of the beer for a while. :Lol:Downside is the noise from the forge and hammer work all night, with singing... :cussing:
Yes, I can see where that would be unpleasant. Might be time to online shop at Elfazon for some noise cancelling headphones. :Lol:Polka Cruise Missle Away! :LittleDevil:
(now where did I put those song sheets and sheet music for "Oklahoma" and "State Fair", that I meant to mail to Chris' shop elves..........muwahahaha!!!) :naughty:
Glue set up, so I propped the sides in place for a look:
(https://i.postimg.cc/J4F1j23x/IMG-7783.jpg)
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn::cheers:
The saw marks on the wood really set them off. Looks very full size.Marks are about the right size for a medium size sawmill.... Have to work out the scale of that blade! :cheers:
Grat work.
Ron
That is a fine looking lobster boat. What model is it?Hi Ron,
Great looking hinges Chris! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:Love the name Bananium!
Glad you could find some Bananium alloy bar to make them out of. I have a lot of that in my stock rack. Usually my shop elves switch it for the nice piece of 1144 stress proof I picked out, just before making a steam engine crankshaft, or similar. :Lol:
Nice little process for the hinges! Looks like you made 9 of them. Is that how many you needed? Or did you make a few extra to sacrifice to the shop gremlins? (as opposed to the elves, of course :Lol: ).Actually made 10 straps, had miscounted so have one extra of those. The elves have gotten pretty good at trapping any feral gnomes and mailing them to nieghbors! :LittleDevil:
Kim
Chris, where do you do your wood work? I wish I had a wood shop but I don’t have the luxury so the work is done in my machine shop. I get sawdust over everything. Tried to get the wife to hold the vacuum hose as I cut but... :ROFL: well I’ll say no more on that idea.Hi Craig,
Still here in the background :wine1: I do like the wooden body :praise2: :praise2::cheers: :cheers:
Since most of the builders of the truck boxes started out as wagon makers, they used the hardware that they knew, like this:What I am going with looks a lot like two sets of the hardware you would see on a gate or door latch, where one part lifts to clear a notch on both pieces. I have the parts shaped and drilled, going to post some picks later (just heading out for a little while). Stay tuned...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-VINTAGE-WAGON-STAKE-TRUCK-BOX-END-GATE-FASTENER-SET-QUICK-DETACH-ORIGINAL/353220475157?hash=item523d94b915:g:QcAAAOSwTxBfdLQ2 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-VINTAGE-WAGON-STAKE-TRUCK-BOX-END-GATE-FASTENER-SET-QUICK-DETACH-ORIGINAL/353220475157?hash=item523d94b915:g:QcAAAOSwTxBfdLQ2)
On our farm truck where there was a stake at the end of the truck side, like you've got, the latch hardware was even simpler and it was all threaded 3/8"-16. It was a J-bolt where the J was let into the wood so the bolt couldn't spin as it was tightened with handle nuts, similar to these:
https://www.zoro.com/zoro-select-handle-nut-12-13-gr-2-ductile-iron-pk25-2-gh0-510d74/i/G2668635/feature-product?utm_source=google&utm_medium=surfaces&utm_campaign=shopping%20feed&utm_content=free%20google%20shopping%20clicks&gclid=CjwKCAjwn9v7BRBqEiwAbq1Ey3ZA2R4OUjVy4KkaUBaMoo4rRqE-Cg33ECAr1Q6pAoJIp2DD2k3W-hoCIYIQAvD_BwE (https://www.zoro.com/zoro-select-handle-nut-12-13-gr-2-ductile-iron-pk25-2-gh0-510d74/i/G2668635/feature-product?utm_source=google&utm_medium=surfaces&utm_campaign=shopping%20feed&utm_content=free%20google%20shopping%20clicks&gclid=CjwKCAjwn9v7BRBqEiwAbq1Ey3ZA2R4OUjVy4KkaUBaMoo4rRqE-Cg33ECAr1Q6pAoJIp2DD2k3W-hoCIYIQAvD_BwE)
Is one of those close to what you were thinking about for the latch?
Nice work, Chris. This is a very interesting and informative thread. Lots of tips on how to fabricate parts.For sawing the wood, I've got a full size 10" tablesaw for big cuts, actually used that for the thicker/wider strips. For the thinner pieces, I have a MicroMark mini tilt-arbor table saw with a carbide tipped blade (36 tooth - think I am using the Proxxon blade as I recall). That blade looks too coarse for fine work compared to the slitting saw style but it gives a nice fine finish without the blade binding in hardwoods, still works well in thin wood. The MicroMark saw has the fine-adjust fence on it, which I think was an optional extra (been a bunch of years since I got it). For curved work, also have a 14" Delta bandsaw with the riser block, so it can do very tall cuts (12 or 14" thick). Got that saw many moons ago, 35 years?
What kind of saw did you use to cut the thin strips for the truck bed?
Chuck
That's a very slick latch mechanism, Chris!Hi Kim, I don't know what they actually used, and almost all the Mann wagons had a custom bed/box/tank/etc, so this is my guess.
Is that prototypical of the Mann Wagon? Or just your idea of what 'might have been'?
Either way, it's really nice!
Kim
Nice Chris but wouldn’t it been better to put the fixed piece on the outside of the side then the inside. The pressure from loads would of broke it on the original truck. Just my two cents. Always great work Dog..... :Love:Thats possible, I had not considered the loads. :thinking:
:cheers:
Don
Hi Chris, that is the same type of a latch that Lima used on the fire door of the Shay boilers that were fired on wood or coal. The only difference was a chain was attached to the latch and the other end of the chain was attached to the cab roof. This was so the fireman could open the door with the back edge of the shovel. A poor man's automatic fire door.Thats pretty clever!
Cheers Dan
Great latch Chris :ThumbsUp:Yeah, those were the ones I was thinking of when making these.
The only difference I see from those in my youth, was that they had a small handle about an Inch sticking out for you to grab when opening it again.
Per
Like the paintjob! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: Just a thought re the bunker sheetmetal (that also looks good) - are you planning to make a batch of bunker-shaped cookies or scones just for the heck of it? could be entertaining to see the elves' reactions...... :Lol:
Hi Chris, great progress as usual. Love that wooden tray, hinges and catches.Hi MJM,
I am wondering about those aluminium angles for the coal bunker though. I suppose that while it will be warm beside the boiler it should not be wet, so probably not a real issue, but would it be better to bend up brackets from a bit of that stainless steel sheet seeing that you have it available anyway?
Still watching in for your daily updates, enjoying and learning from every one.
MJM460
... I have some thin 304 stainless stock in different widths, that is 0.300" thick so easy to bend cold. In the forground of the pictures above you can see the wood form that I cut, and the first coal bunker side that I bent around it:
Hi Chris, Aluminium and stainless steel are well spaced on the electrochemical scale and Al will sacrifice itself to protect the stainless steel. That’s why it is used as a protective anode in many corrosive environments. Particularly prone to corrosion in the contact area where it can’t be seen, and the aluminium slowly turns to white powder. The corrosion also requires an electrolyte so much more of an issue where things get wet, even occasionally, but I think I would try bending up stainless ones from a strip. If you don’t like the rounded corner, try starting from thicker strip and refine the shape with that belt sander. As I type this I am thinking perhaps the first step would be to bend one, and hammer it down flat to check that you don’t get cracks from the bending process.Good to know, thanks!!!!
A good alternative is to give a good coat of paint to the hidden surface before assembly to prevent any electrical continuity. That works well, even in a yachting environment, which is particularly prone to the issue as the moisture is often salty as well. Once the whole assembly is then painted the different metals will not be visible anyway, so the practical approach might be to use the material you prefer and use the paint barrier.
As it should always be dry in that location, I am probably overthinking it, but I guess my years of work experience make be a bit shy of different metals in contact. If it is important, it will so often bite.
MJM460
Whoops - put the zero in the wrong place! Yup, should be 0.030" :wallbang:... I have some thin 304 stainless stock in different widths, that is 0.300" thick so easy to bend cold. In the forground of the pictures above you can see the wood form that I cut, and the first coal bunker side that I bent around it:
Chris, that's some pretty tight curves for 1/3" plate steel! :ROFL:
I'm betting the decimal was misplaced there and you meant 0.030" sheet? Hope you ordered the right stuff from McMaster :naughty:
Looking forward to seeing how your vinyl lettering works out. They yellow lettering should match the your pin stripe nicely too!
Kim
A few years ago I made 20 stainless steel cookie cutters for the CNC controlled brownie cutter. The machine cut delicious, 1" thick gooey brownies. I had to bend 1" wide SS into various shapes- the simplest was the Easter egg, the most difficult was a lobster shape. The people that ran the machine often paid off in brownies when I came to add new cutters or fix problems. I think the machine is still running, and I had a video on you tube, but I can't find it now.Sounds yummie. Now the shop elves are off on thier laptops designing an automated chocolate chip cookie machine...!
The angle of the steering wheel really stands out in that last picture. Maybe that's a safety feature so the driver doesn't get impaled in a high speed crash?That red one has the steeper-angle steering shaft, and angles to the side more too. There were several variants on those angles, depending on the 3-ton, 5-ton, over/under, etc style.In a high speed crash, I'd be more worried about the 500 gallons of boiling water squirting out, and the several tons of cargo behind!
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: re the yellow stripe. It makes the paint scheme "pop" without overdoing it. Just right, in my opinion!:cheers:
Re steering wheel angle on red truck in photo - have to remember, these were the days of iron men and iron machines. It probably took more than a little control wheel angle and asymmetry to bother one of the guys driving that truck! :Lol:
Crashes did happen back then, as seen in various photos, and even though speeds were low I'm sure there were crush injuries and explosion/burn/scald fatalities. There seem to be a lot of old photos of steam rollers in the UK gone out of control on rainy/slippery hills and meeting brick fences at the bottom. Also seen a lot of old photos of steam traction engines gone through wooden bridges. THAT failure mode could happen to a steam dump truck, I would not want to be the guy in the drivers' position of it ever went through a bridge, hung up at front and back and kinked in the middle. :o
A few :DrinkPint: before setting out, to maintain intestinal fortitude, may have been the order of the day...... like a lot of jobs back then. :cheers:
Wow! Phenomenal attention to detail and great finish.Thanks Gary!
Very nice, Chris! And I see you used your handy-dandy rivet clamper thingy! That's pretty cool. I may have to make myself one of those someday.They had bearing blocks where the column went through the plates, no other tube that I noticed. The coal is not that deep so I guess it doesn't matter.
So, is there anything to keep the coal in the coal-bin from interfering with the steering column? Or is it just too unlikely that it would cause a bind there so they didn't bother?
Kim
In the original old ads for the truck, did they mention "carbon / gravity steering shock damping" at all? :Lol:Some odd references to graphene maybe.... ;)
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Could be, but I thought that stuff was invented by Mr P.A. Nasonic at J.A.Pan and Co. much later than these trucks were made..... :Lol:hmmmmm... we MAY need to scale back your meds just a tad.... :LittleDevil:
No meds being taken, but cutting back the rum ration, well, maybe........ :Lol:(https://i.postimg.cc/rsfCzS8w/facepalm.jpg)
(just kidding, dry as a bone here, just a bit loopy due to Covid precaution isolation and resting my neck - cabin fever for sure)
That last bit of work - looks great. Were you listening to John Coal tray ne when making the hole? :facepalm: :atcomputer:
Really superb Chris - what an amazing build! Great attention to detail.Thanks Stuart!
Lots of room for coal, how about water? Does the Mann have a water tank also? My live steam loco uses gallons of water for a full coal bunker in the tender.Yes, if you look back in the earlier posts, before the cargo bed went on, you can see two large tanks hanging under the rear frame. On the undertype versions, there was a tank behind the cab.
I had posted a question over on the TractionTalk forum about the water tanks, since I was not sure if both were water supply, or if the smaller one was a seperator/condensing tank - turns out both were water supply tanks and they split them into two tanks to clear the axle assembly.Lots of room for coal, how about water? Does the Mann have a water tank also? My live steam loco uses gallons of water for a full coal bunker in the tender.Yes, if you look back in the earlier posts, before the cargo bed went on, you can see two large tanks hanging under the rear frame. On the undertype versions, there was a tank behind the cab.
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:Do younger people these days even know the term Developing Pictures?! :old:
Watching for more developments! (sorry) :Lol:
Some do, if they are interested in photography at all. My son (26 now) spent some time in high school in mid 2000's taking pics w black and white film in 35 mm SLR cameras and developing it in the art dept's darkroom. He did some nice work. I'm told they scrapped the darkroom soon after and declared it a toxic waste zone in the school.....sign of the times.....most of the places I worked in at various factories, the toolrooms, welding shops, plastic moulding shops, stamping press shops - even the drawing offices with their Diazo printers and Xerox 8830 photocopiers and big CRT CAD terminals would likely be declared environmental disaster areas now. (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/Smileys/default/shocked.gif) (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/Smileys/default/Shrug.gif)I had the fun of working at Kodak back when there still was film in cameras, and took classes at the company camera club darkrooms taught by some of the guys that invented new versions of film and paper, that was a blast. We could go in after hours and use the darkrooms for free, they had a big Kreonite paper processor for making color prints up to 20x30". When they tore down a big chunk of Kodak Park (industrial park, not the tree/grass kind) they had to do lots of hazardous waste cleanup. Some of the parking lots around there still have rubber membranes under the pavement to keep nasty stuff from coming up (a hundred years of chemical products manufacturing left behind a bit of a messy footprint).
And I didn't even mention sheetmetal developments....... :cheers:
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:This stuff is sold in bags for model railroad layouts, for a number of scales, so they just call it coarse, large, medium, etc down to 'dust' size. They dont give an actual measurement range, so I ordered the two largest sizes figuring one or both would work.
Nice looking coal. Do the suppliers call it "pea" or "bean" size on their packaging?
Don't let the elves stuff the seat cushions with it !
Hi Chris , talking about cameras and film... I have been looking at old early copies of Model Engineer. There was a model engineering club at the Kodak factory and all their photos were really clear and and crisp and well lit etc etc unlike everybody else photos that were quite bad so you could not see any detail lower down in the models !!! still looking in and liking the progress...Kodak used to have all sorts of clubs, there was a building at the main manufacturing complex with all sorts of classrooms, club facilities, a bowling alley, even a swimming pool. Problem with that pool though, it was up on the top floor of a four or five story building, and the wieght was just a bit too much so they could never fill it. They used the big open space in the pool to make the giant photo murals that were put up at Grand Central Terminal in New York. Those were the days... Back then they had public tours of the main plants, in film making, camera making, and glass lense making areas. The main complex was 7 miles long by 1 mile wide, had its own water plant, waste treatment plant, its own fire department, bus service, coal power station, and even its own railroad inside the complex. The locos mostly wound up at a train museum south of town. The plant I started at was cross town from that complex, where they made the cameras/film processors/projectors/copiers - that building was about 1 mile across and deep (made up of a series of connected buildings), we had bicycles and electric carts to get around inside. That complex is still there, but sold off to other companies mostly. The big Kodak Park complex is still there too, but about half the buildings were torn down in the bankruptcy and turned into big flat fields. We had over 60 thousand people working there when I started. Now, maybe one thousand at most... :'(
Willy
Good morning Chris.Hi Sid,
You mentioned that the Kodak locos ended up in a museum.
What museum is that?
Thanks, Sid
Continuing on with the cab parts, started bending up the edge flanges for the rear seat surrounds from some small tool steel strips. They will edge set enough for the curves without heating - may need some heat for the forward panels which are a smaller radius.
(https://i.postimg.cc/4yJpyfnJ/IMG-7862.jpg)
:Love:Nice to have you following along Don!
:cheers:
Don
The trolley museum does have quite a bit inside, couple big rooms full of cars and stuff. I have not been out to either museum in about 8 years or so. Both depend a lot on volunteers, and they usually got busy during the summer months.Continuing on with the cab parts, started bending up the edge flanges for the rear seat surrounds from some small tool steel strips. They will edge set enough for the curves without heating - may need some heat for the forward panels which are a smaller radius.
Chris- Not to derail your build, but- My wife and I as part of a anniversary weekend get away, went to both of those museums.
Your right, they were closed! The RVGRRM museum looked to be pretty run down. It looked like all of the rolling stock and engines might have been up on the hill.
We didn't want to get in any trouble by walking around (well, she didn't!) so we did not see a lot of what the site lists.
We also visited the trolley museum. There we did walk around. I hope there is more stuff inside the building.
Incidentally, earlier this year, we tracked down the Marion shovel you modeled.
Sid
Superb fabrication skills as always. Are you using some sort of jig for the bending - as simple as bending round a piece of rod maybe?For the edge pieces, all the bends were done just with a small bench vise and pliers - wide jaw linemans pliers and small small needle nose pliers. I did the bends a tiny bit at a time, few degrees and check against the panel, moved along a short distance when it matched. The strips took the bends well, but overbending too far and coming back too much or too many times would snap them without re-annealing. The panels were done around wood formers for the initial bends, then tweaked with vise and wide pliers. Sometimes to get a tight bend in one spot a few taps of a hammer close to the vise jaws. These are all gradient bends rather than a simple radius, so it was more of a finess job. :cheers:
Nice! Not unlike the bump forming process we have to do on thicker plate at work. Same approach - different scale.Bump forming - dont know that term. How does it work? What kinds of plates are you forming, boilers, ships?
Chris,The green is model DE1644 Racing Green - its in their line of engine enamels with ceramic, can take high temperatures but does not require baking to cure. It dries in 10 minutes or so to the touch and can be recoated then. I've been using that line (various colors) on my engines and also RC boats for a while now, like that it goes on with a very thin film and covers well. It likes a couple of light coats. This green is a nice dark shade. :cheers:
That is very nice striping on your tanks. Looks great.
You mentioned the green is a Duplicolor engine paint. Which one of their greens did you use?
Thanks.
Chuck
but now it will require scale beer barrels made to an ultra fine level to match!!! maybe there are some plant seeds that can pass for scale hops.. :cheers: :DrinkPint: :DrinkPint:Teaching the elves to hop close enough? :Lol:
Nothing that hasn't already been said but just truly beautiful Chris! You're going to have quite a collection of large scale machines.Thanks George!
gbritnell
Great work on the wagon Chris!They'll be zip lining and bungee jumping off it!
Quite the pumping engine. Lotsa parts & an elves playground.
John
If in the Boston area, the pumping engines at the Waterworks Museum are well worth seeing.Looks amazing, gotta get there someday. Thanks for the info!
https://waterworksmuseum.org/great-engines-hall/ (https://waterworksmuseum.org/great-engines-hall/)
Chuck
https://waterworksmuseum.org/great-engines-hall/
Hi Jo, I will vote for that. (And we could do with some engineers in Parliament as well.)Building two? That means finding double the room to put them! Gaaahhhhh! :Lol:
Sorry, I should stay away from politics.
Back to the topic, no question on which way to build the engine Chris. There were five in the building. I am not suggesting five, that might be over the top, but surely one working plus one cut away is the way to go. Never takes twice as long to make two components, so get double value from each set up.
The real question is for the working one. Air or steam? Also it really needs the condenser and working air and condensate pumps. I suspect they would be separate on that size engine. And definitely working water pumps with fluorescent green water.
MJM460
Thats what happens when you put a pointy haired boss in charge of the engineers....https://waterworksmuseum.org/great-engines-hall/ (https://waterworksmuseum.org/great-engines-hall/)
Nice looking engines. I saw they also provide education for school visits. However I think it is criminal charging to teach the little kids "What's an Engineer" :rant: https://waterworksmuseum.org/education-programs/whats-an-engineer/ (https://waterworksmuseum.org/education-programs/whats-an-engineer/) I would have thought at least that one course should be free to all :)
Jo
I have enough problem keeping up with wagon build let alone the pumping station!! Do you live on 1hrs sleep :-D :-D, beautiful workmanship i find myself looking forward to the pump now :-)Going to be quite a while on starting the pump engine!
Hi Chris , wow that looks like a project you really could have fun with. and ....if you do make two...Ill swop my electric boiler for one of them ...??? :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: interesting how the cylinder covers are all quite different. I do have a triple expansion set of castings myself actually..!! but not in this class thoughSo to get two now I need to make three... Going to be a busy spring! :ROFL:
Willy....
With the exception of the wet cylinder liners used in large diesels, most of the liners that I've seen used in engine repair still required you to bore the cylinder to the final size.Do the liners come with a smooth enough bore to use for a slow steam engine, or are they rough?
I take it that the LP cylinder is larger than you can line bore on your Sherline, even with the extender blocks?
Don
Ethan's a good fit in the cab. His last name's not Oll, is it? :Lol:Hey CNR,
Just noticed the shaft bearing hole in the trans housing behind the steer shaft and Ethan. Anything big and spinning end up coming out of that hole, that could interfere with the steer shaft or steering wheel? Just thinking ahead a bit, just in case....... :cheers:
Chris:Hi Don - I've never tried any line-boring, but doing that on the mill would probably be more possible than on the lathe, the X/Y adjustment would be ideal for that sort of thing. Doing a 3" or 4" hole would really tax the rigidity of the Sherline though, wouldn't it? Probably be a whole lot faster to go the cylinder sleeve path, with stacks of brass plates. I'd want to hole-saw out the centers probably, would give me a couple stacks of discs usable for gears and things rather than 20 pounds of chips!Doing line boring does require a way to adjust the cutter distance from centerline, right? Some sort of screw advance, or just a set screw? Never looked into that tooling. Also, would need to get the hole started large enough to start line boring.... :headscratch:
Regarding boring large objects on an itty-bitty lathe. (I've got a Unimat and a Sherline so I know where you're coming from.) Any chance you could set it up to line-bore vertically on your mill? I've seen you come up with some pretty ingenious set-ups.
Don
Hi Chris, just a thought, to avoid the 4"+ dia core out / boring - you could consider water jet cut plates for the stack. If you plan the job so you can leave it with a waterjet cutting shop, making it clear it is not a rush, just fit it in as time allows, and tell them what you are making, often you can get a very good deal. Waterjet gives clean, on-size cuts with no limitation on material or thickness. The local guy I use (for day job activities) can cut steel plates 4 x 10 feet and up to 9 inches thick for progressive die work - but has also cut 1/2" x 1/4" prototype parts in .005" shim stock, and pieces of polycarbonate for eyeglass lenses!Now thats a neat idea! Thanks!
(with waterjet there is no issue with reflective materials like brass or aluminum as there is with laser cutting. With laser cutting the beam can reflect off such materials and damage the laser's focusing lens or the laser itself. Also with laser cutting there can be a super hard heat affected zone for a few thou back from the edge of the cut - waterjet cuts do not have this issue.)
The wagon progress looks great! like the step and steering wheel fit. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:Ethan is sitting pretty still - I think he found a barrel of Eagle Mountain Stout in the storage room... The snoring is giving him away...
Re the shop elves- you kind of set them up for mugging for the camera this time.... :Lol:
Driver Mr Ethan Oll of Eagle Mountain Brewing looks content in the cab.
Left turn in traffic looks iffy. :oI haven't seen any mirrors in any of the old photos, could explain some of the photos of wrecks! Since there are no pedals for controls, the driver could stand while driving to look over the engine/transmission, and the ones without a tall cargo had windows in the back wall of the cab. If a passenger was on the left side, thier panicked scream would be a clue...
Did they have mirrors on the side?
Were steam wagons in the US left hand drive?Dont know about the left hand drive in US, would assume that was true by some point. I do know that Mann allowed the option to swap to left hand drive when ordering a machine, for countries where that was desirable.
Comparing a steam wagon with a Model T leads me to the conclusion that pretty much everything else just had to keep out of the wagon's way. A "fender bender" with a Mann Wagon might leave a scratch or tow on the wagon but they'd be hard to find, as for the Ford...
David
Thanks Willy! We seem to be using a lot of green around here for sure! Its amazing how much different the parts look with color on them.
Wow this is looking really good ..and green seems to be the "in" colour at the moment !!
Willy
I had no idea you were published - but I shouldn't be surprised given the quality of your work and the prose on this forum. I'll have to look into that magazine, very exciting.Thanks very much. The article started in March 2018, includes full drawings and instructions for all the parts. :cheers:
Wow, Chris! That's going to be another dramatic change in the looks of the model! Quite the transformation over the last few weeks to say the least!Thanks very much Kim! They are deciding now whether to gather up that series as a book - hoping so!
You are like a bullet train, Chris! You get more done in a day than I get done in a month!
And I've been enjoying your Lombard Hauler build series in Live Steam! Hope they pick up more of your models :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Kim
Have not looked in for a while so may have missed something but the driver figure looks a bit small when compared to the video you posted at the start of the thread, the guy driving's head looks to come a lot closer to the roof? And steering wheel almost half distance between roof and cab frontYup - this figure is slightly small, but closest that I could find. As for the wheel position, this model is not a direct copy of that machine but is a combination of the red one and green one shown at the start of the thread, and the ones shown in the original Mann catalog that I have. Seems like just about every one they made was customized in some way, especially for the cargo area, but the cabs varied too. So, that gives me some license in positions and shapes - I am leaning more towards what the catalog shows on a lot of things since it is at least an original layout, where most of the machines left in existance have been modified, rebuilt, repaired, and sometimes converted from a traction engine to a truck style! Enough to make you dizzy!
thinking that curved sides of the coal bunkers would look good with Eagle Mountain Brewing initialsI have been debating that. A lot of the trucks had the name on the bunkers too, I am not sure if it would be too busy looking. What do you all think? It would have to be a smaller version of the letters to fit. A single line with the name, along the lower yellow line? Or leave the name off?
Why not just put the "Fleet N°" in a simple circle on each coal bunker.Fleet nbr?? Whats that?
Phil
Many hauliers had a few wagons, they identified each of them with a number usually in a circle on the cab side.Thats a good look. Thanks!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/old_motors/3666093934/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/old_motors/3666093934/)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/93727752@N03/8524411962/in/photostream/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/93727752@N03/8524411962/in/photostream/)
Phil
a E.M.B. and a livery number would work well there.. and because of the number it might keep the elves busy looking for the other trucks..:lolb:
Does Eagle Mountain Brewing have a company flag, logo, family crest, coat of arms, mascot...Winged elf eating cookie and drinking beer, on field of swarf?
Nothing says fancy-schmancy like a bit of Heraldry, or even a critter, British Lion and all that.
Don
Winged elf eating cookie and drinking beer, on field of swarf?Would that be with, or without, the cookie crumbs dribbling out of his mouth?
A drunk eagle crashing into a mountain with an elf in it's talonsWouldn't a drunk elf crashing into the mountain while riding the eagle be a more likely scenario?
Okay, I want tee shirts of these - who here can draw?!A drunk eagle crashing into a mountain with an elf in it's talonsWouldn't a drunk elf crashing into the mountain while riding the eagle be a more likely scenario?
Figures - and I just got back from the dentist this afternoon to get a broken tooth fixed!! :Lol:Dr Crueby's Painless Dentistry - More teeth than you can shake a stick at - and no rust! Dr Crueby's Painless Dentistry - More teeth than you can shake a stick at - and no rust! Dr Crueby's Painless Dentistry - More teeth than you can shake a stick at - and no rust!
:Lol:
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
After all the nibbling is done, will go back and shape in the centers/spokes of the gears and likely will nickle plate them - they wont be easily seen in the finished model, but I'll know they are there...
Nice set of Gears, Chris! That's a lot of work represented there!Both!After all the nibbling is done, will go back and shape in the centers/spokes of the gears and likely will nickle plate them - they wont be easily seen in the finished model, but I'll know they are there...
Are you plating them so that they won't look brass? Or just for fun?
Kim
Are you going to bevel the ends of the teeth so they will slide into gear easer?I've been wondering what they did, if anything, to help them engage. Was beveling the edges a common practice?
Ralph
I forgot an important piece of gear shifting advice attributed to an early 20th century poet:Note to self: never loan cnr my car...
"if you can't find 'em, grind 'em!"
That 2nd to 1st downshift is a b^&&$r innit? Can you say "RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR >graunch<" :hellno: :Lol:
looks great,,have to wonder what the weight reduction was?Quite a bit, I didn't weigh them, but the pile is noticeably lighter. Halfish?
Damn Dog......... :Love:
:drinking-41:
Don
You'll know to look under a spool of wire FIRST for the next part that goes missing! :Lol:Don't be too disturbed, its a long list! :lolb:
Glad you found it, a lot of work on those gears.
(and somehow satisfying, but disturbing at the same time, that I made the suspect list.......) :naughty: :mischief: :shrug: :thinking: :Lol:
The elves may never get a "golden handshake" or a "golden parachute" but at least they got a bronze finger! (on the Mann shifter) :Lol:At our level at Kodak, we called the layoff termination pay 'getting the FU money'... :paranoia: I got lucky and got out before the end of the bankruptcy, when the termination pay got cut in half for anyone left after the bankruptcy ended. That turned it into more of a lead parachute!
Looking great Chris! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Hi ChrisSure thing Rich!
I have followed this all the way through, loved every minute of it :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:
Can you show a little more of the keyway cutting please
Cheers
Rich
I have a set of broaches and guides, and a similar arbor press. They work very well, but make absolutely sure that the guide extends completely through whatever you are broaching. If the guide isn't long enough, the broach will break. I found this out the hard way, and individual broaches are expensive. Use lots of oil when broaching. Cover the broach and the guide and the bore of whatever you are broaching in lots of oil.---BrianGood to know!
If I could make a suggestion Chris. I have found it much easier to mill out the extra material between the webs etc than trying to intermittently cut them on the lathe. You don't even have to do the whole crank at one time. Just cut some of the areas on the mill, back in the lathe for turning then do the rest.Thats a great idea - on the smaller cranks doing the whole thing on the lathe was no problem, but for this one there is about 5/8" just to get close to the actual size. Hmmm, could chain drill the bulk out, connect the dots with a mill, back to the lathe... This would save a lot of time.
gbritnell
Hi Chris,Sounds like a great plan. The crank webs are 0.344" apart, so enough room to use right and left hand cutters down the gap to clean up the insides of the webs, and I have some long end mills to reach down in too. Nice! I was not looking forward to that much interrupted cutting with a parting toll extended that far.
I started out making Stuart engines which had the crank pre forged so basically all you had to do was finish it. From there I moved on to hit and miss engines, some with fabricated cranks and some cut from bar stock. It wasn't until I started making multi-cylinder engines that I got into real crank making. My first cranks were cut in the lathe, clunka, clunka, clunka. On top of it being nerve wracking it took seemingly forever. When I built the Holt engine I decided to give milling a try. I cut the main and throw pockets leaving about .01 on the sides for lathe finish. I rotated the blank in 90 degree increments cutting down to about +.025. From there it went into the lathe for finishing. Even with the small amount that 1144 would warp the stock I left was more than adequate for a good cleanup.
gbritnell
For finishing crank big end journals I have a parting blade ground with a relief groove up the middle of its front face, and both front corners have a radius.Thanks Phil! The parting tools I use are the long thin blade type, held in a holder, the blade has a concave depression running down the length. It does a pretty good job of doing the side-to-side cleanup with a shallow cut. The only problems I have are if I regrind the end without keeping it dead square to the length, since that causes it to pull to one side. My grinder is a slower speed one, think its 800 rpm, wheel on one side is the finer pink stone, does a nice job on blades. I wonder if the depression in the top of the blade is to give it the same kind of action like the ones you describe, though it does still have sharp corners.
In use it can be moved from side to side with a light cut to produce the finished journal with a radius in each corner, the groove up the middle reduces its cutting area to prevent chatter.
Phil
PS
I just looked and found a picture of said tool on the ME forum in one of Jason's posts.
https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=64873 (https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=64873)
I think those blades with a top depression are made like that so the swarf curls up with a centre fold, the swarf ends up slightly narrower than the gap thus preventing it from jamming.That makes sense. :cheers:
Phil
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:They will be turned in on this piece. The holes to turn the bar between centers for the eccentrics are already in place on the ends of the bar. The eccentrics will require removing a lot less material than the crank pins. Here is a screen grab from Fusion:
Separate eccentrics on this crank Chris? or turned integral with the crank, out of the webs?
Nice!! Happy chip making! :cheers:Yeah, he is napping over in the drivers seat, waiting for his first delivery run!
Is Mr Ethan Oll from the brewing company keeping a low profile while there is work to be done shoveling chips? :Lol:
looking great!! it's giving me thought "if I only had a little bigger lathe" my wife said I could get my own Xmas present this year... really complex set-up with the fixed eccentrics :cheers:Thanks! Though this was all done on my Sherline, so its not that big a lathe! Glad I got the long-bed version of the lathe and tall-column on the mill though, that extra distance makes a big difference sometimes.
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:Good idea, then they can dip their cookies in the rum, and hopefully forget how to count. Or write. Or walk... :lolb:
Looks great Chris. Great planning to make that crank. :cheers:
Hope you remembered to break out the Navy rum ration before the elves' QC inspections....... :Lol:
What do the quality assurance elves say?The stressproof steel lived up to its name this time, appears to have stayed nice and straight! ^-^
Did you get away with it? (Deflection on the shaft..)
It's looking great Chris, love the "gearbox"..
Nice work!
yea ..thats looking really good ,!! and I would never be able to do that !! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:Oh come on, I've been watching your builds, the only difference is that you would have used files to shape it all out! :Lol:
:praise2: :praise2
Willy
Hi Chris, we have had quite a few ideas on making crankshafts lately, but that is the master class.
And you barely slowed down. The milling a large part of the waste first is clearly a great idea.
Only the easy bits to do now.
MJM460
Trial steaming before Christmas ?
Phil
.. still taking time to spin the crankshaft around and watch the motion... :cheers:
Pour another round! Elfensteiner for everyone! :DrinkPint:.. still taking time to spin the crankshaft around and watch the motion... :cheers:
Round and round testing is very important :wine1:
Jo
Outstanding Dog..... :Love::DrinkPint: :DrinkPint: :DrinkPint:
:drinking-41:
Don
Chris,Nope nope nope No no no Echo echo echo...
Great job on the crank. Yes I'm still following along. I looked at the photo showing the crank assembled in place and said to myself, That's why he bent that control rod. Then You said the same thing. Is there an echo in here?
Art
Chris:
When you spin the crankshaft, do you make the required chuff-chuff sounds, or do the elves? You DO know the sound effects are mandatory don't you?
Don
Hi Chris ,....just happend to see this on the web...........Willy, that's a slick approach. I like that guy's style, have to watch more of his videos. Thanks!
There's more than one way to skin a cat !!!
[youtube1]https://youtu.be/9sQzedI_Cw4[/youtube1]
Willy
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:Well, Kevin, the elves do like Bacon... :Lol:
Does a 5 degree taper give the other engine parts 5 degrees of separation from the flywheel ? :thinking: :headscratch: :Lol:
Hope this philosophical question doesn't make the elves' and Mr Ethan Oll's heads hurt after all those Elfensteiner stubbies yesterday....... :Lol: :cheers:
ChrisI'd like to make an engine with the sliding eccentric sometime, but as you say it would need to be larger. The Mann patent on it gives all the details, as do a couple of the books.
Thanks for the explanation of the differences between the tractor and the five ton wagon.
To be honest I have never delved that deeply into the differences in design and did not realise just how far apart they are.
I bet that sliding eccentric would be tricky to pull off in a small model as well, much more sense to use something that we know will work anyway.
Whatever you do it will be impressive I am sure.
Phil
Trial steaming before Christmas ?
Phil
Possible but not very likely. Lots of little things, conrods, eccentric followers, piping, throttle, reverse gear and controls, to go still. Not to mention a two cylinder compound engine! Guessing more like late January or early February?
Chris has spoken.I hath spaken? Pass the bacon! :Lol:
5 spoken, in fact. :Lol:
Looking great! :cheers:
Coming along nicely Chris. I'm finally caught up on your build log.Great to have you following along Jim! Hope your summer worked out well.
Jim
Hi love the rounding technique ..a cunning stunt if ever there was one ?? hope I got the spelling right ??Yup! The rotary table is one of the most used gizmos on my mill. I use it so much in both horizontal and vertical modes that a year or so ago I picked up a used one so I don't have to switch it back and forth all the time. Well worth it. The tooling plate was home made from a steel plate.
willy
The lights look great on the shovel Chris! We definitely had a nice day today on the great lakes, 60 deg. Down from you on lake Erie.Hi John,
Loving the Mann build!
Gotta ask about the Sherlines capacity...how much power do they have?
What's the depth of cut you can take? Biggest drill you can do On lathe or mill? Are you using HSS or carbide lathe bits?
I'm just curious...not that I'm going to buy a sherline & put one On the production line or anything.
John
I like that sky in the upper left of the shovel picture.Got lucky on the weather, just before sundown a monster block of clouds went by, then all that was left was that thin pattern, caught the color perfect. A mid 60's day in late November is a treat around here. Tomorrow is back to low 40's.
Jim
ChrisHi Phil,
How are you planning on holding the big end caps to the rods ?
It looks like you will nip the journal if you tighten up those screws too much. Maybe studs and lock nuts ?
Have you pinned the bushes to prevent them rotating in the rod.
Phil
You didn't slice a loaf of bread for sandwiches yesterday did you Chris, and got inspired? Only that loaf of followers and the individual slices look mighty familiar........... :thinking: :Lol:Now I'm hungry! :Lol: Good thing I've got a couple loaves of excellent italian bread in the fridge, time to go slice one up! Will taste a lot better than the bronze.
In my shop the loaf would probably be called Blunder Bread these days rather than Wonder Bread! :Lol:
Just kidding around, the parts and tooling look excellent as usual. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Awwwww my hero......... :ThumbsUp:For the parts or the bread?! :ROFL:
:drinking-41:
Don
Hi Chris. just a thought before cutting the waste away - how do you you plan to oil the followers on the eccentrics? You could form an "oil box" out of the waste area either at the back end or next to the rods. This could have a small drilled hole to seep oil into the follower groove / eccentric od. :thinking: :headscratch:Oooh, interesting idea! Something like this? Could put a small hole down through, with a wider 'cup' at the opening. I like it! Send that guy a cookie, elves! .... uh oh, they already ate it. There is an empty box on the way.... :facepalm2:
the fitting work looks great! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Now you made me hungry! :Lol: Not shortbread's, by any chance?Sugar cookies with lemon, rolled out for cookie cutters, iced with colored sprinkles. Old family tradition. Yummy!
Chris,The Elfensteiner therapy does seem to be helping. Just wish the cans weren't so darn small! :DrinkPint:
Sorry to hear about the attack on your finger by that notorious shop elf named Metal Fatigue. :shrug:
Sorry I couldn't help myself. :DrinkPint: Try the drink pint I'm sure that'll help.
Art
Yeah, popping the tops on those 1.6oz cans has got to be a pain with that finger. (1:12 scale pint dontchaknow.) But then you've probably got a custom machined 1:12 scale church key dontcha? Any pictures of that church key, maybe with one of the cans?Had one, but the elves took it. I haven't been able to find it in their kitchen either.
Don
Back 1000 years ago (it seems like it) at my Dad and Grandfather's service station we used a heavy duty large funnel with a built in can opener for fast oil changes. All oil for cars came in metal 1 quart cans at the time. You put the funnel in the engine's valve cover oil hole, jam the first oil can in, check the belts, jam second oil can in, check battery electrolyte levels (or the blue eye, later) and coolant, jam third oil can in, check air filter and heater hoses, jam fourth oil can in, clean windshield. Check oil level. All done in 8 min or less. (assuming you remembered to put the drain plug back in before adding the new oil) :oSlick ( :Lol: ) funnel! Dont think I ever saw one of those, do remember seeing a lever-operated gizmo that punched the holes in the oil can lids for pouring.
Through the power of Goog L I found a pic of one of these now-antique funnels, showing the opener inside it, the pic is attached.
Anyway, the thought - if you made a miniature version of that funnel, you could hold it in your mouth and jam the tiny beer cans into it to open them! (hope the shop elves aren't reading this)
For these parts, which are steel and bronze, I did not want to use the Sparex 2 pickle that I use for brass since the steel will contaminate it, and the solution will transfer some of the brass color onto the steel. So, I put some white vinegar (common grocery store stuff) into an old cup (which is used only for this) and put the parts in to soak.
I think its some coper or brass residue from the parts before them. Sparex makes a nbr 1 version that is meant for steel parts. Harder to find but its out there. I try and keep the Sparex just for the brass/copper/bronze parts - I did pick up some of the Nbr 1 version but never got around to mixing it up in another container.For these parts, which are steel and bronze, I did not want to use the Sparex 2 pickle that I use for brass since the steel will contaminate it, and the solution will transfer some of the brass color onto the steel. So, I put some white vinegar (common grocery store stuff) into an old cup (which is used only for this) and put the parts in to soak.
Interesting... I also use Sparex and find that my steel parts come out with a copper/brass color coating on them. It's very thin and easy to buff off, but I never really thought about where it came from. So is that just from the Sparex? Or from the brass parts that have been in the pickle before them?
Kim
Back 1000 years ago (it seems like it) at my Dad and Grandfather's service station we used a heavy duty large funnel with a built in can opener for fast oil changes. All oil for cars came in metal 1 quart cans at the time. You put the funnel in the engine's valve cover oil hole, jam the first oil can in, check the belts, jam second oil can in, check battery electrolyte levels (or the blue eye, later) and coolant, jam third oil can in, check air filter and heater hoses, jam fourth oil can in, clean windshield. Check oil level. All done in 8 min or less. (assuming you remembered to put the drain plug back in before adding the new oil) :oOh man does that bring back memories, in those dark days of yonder I worked at various gas stations and knew those funnels well. One of the tricks some of the guys who were a little on the shady side would pull was to punch the oil can upside down in the funnel and drain it, then put it to one side. The next customer who came in would be short dipped on the oil stick and showing they needed a quart of oil. The attendant then picked up the already drained oil can showed the unpunched top to the customer then inserted it in the funnel, leaving a rag over the previously punched oil can. He would then full dip the oil stick and show the customer that his oil was ok, then quickly shove the oil can in the disposal bin. That was why I always added my own oil.
Through the power of Goog L I found a pic of one of these now-antique funnels, showing the opener inside it, the pic is attached.
Anyway, the thought - if you made a miniature version of that funnel, you could hold it in your mouth and jam the tiny beer cans into it to open them! (hope the shop elves aren't reading this)
One of the prettiest girls in my village had a summer job at the corner store/post office/gas station manning the gas pump. I had a 1952 Chev car and always went there to buy my gas (and to see the pretty girl).
The big and little elves were all off for the holiday here! No worries, we are back! :cheers:QuoteOne of the prettiest girls in my village had a summer job at the corner store/post office/gas station manning the gas pump. I had a 1952 Chev car and always went there to buy my gas (and to see the pretty girl).
Yeah - something never changes (at least with the youth) :LittleDevil:
What happened here - did the big Elv forgot to make the smaller Elves work and publish any work on the great Mann Wagon Build .... there used to be daily updates .... :thinking:
That's a nice method with the inserted shoulder screw thread. Crankshaft and associated parts look happy in their new home. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:And hopefully I was right when I figured out which eccentric arm of each side was paired with the other side, or I'll have to take it apart again! :noidea:
You look to have some interference between the inner control link and the trunk guide in that image ?Ah - didnt see that before! Nice catch! Fortunately in the new setup, that inner link is no longer needed so that goes away! Guess that would have been a nasty surprise later on.
Phil
ChrisHi Phil - I always welcome another set of eyes, that was a daily thing when I was a firmware engineer. Amazing how someone who has no idea how an algorithm works can still spot a goof by asking 'gee, what does THAT part do?'. Answer: 'Oh, that controls the .... um.... whoops!'
I spend all day every day in my job designing special machinery in Solidworks, so I get a bit nerdy about looking for errors in my own assemblies, it is just second nature after a while.
I have to check some of our younger designers output as well, that makes for some very interesting conversations ;D
I also have a policy of never using any published model engineering designs until I have modelled them in 3D first to prove they are OK, you would be surprised how many have serious errors that have been circulating for years.
How does your new version work out on the LP side, that has a bigger diameter trunk guide ?
Phil
you're going to need to adjust the length of the intermediate lifting rod,, so the link is in the upper position,,That was done - in the 3D version the links were in a position to draw them conveniently, but I did check the limits. The length of several of the links had to be adjusted for these changes. And, I usually (not always, which has caused issues) check dimensions for linkages on the model as-built-so-far to make sure any tolerance stacking has not bitten me in the butt.
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:The shop elves are trying to make them fly like boomerangs! Two cracked windows, one broken lamp, and one elf with a concussion so far...
Glad you detected the problem early on! These things happen. The links that went in the spares box will give Mr Ethan Oll something to polish. :Lol:
So pretty much a normal day in the shop then, eh? :Lol: :cheers:
can you use the links you made?Possible - need to check some dimensions. I extended the tabs slightly to give clearance for the center bracket.
I'm still watching along in the background :) :) :wine1: I like your fabricated excentric rods :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: I would probably have tried to carve them from the solid ::)Yeah, I might have too, but I wanted the bronze for the follower ring, and didn't feel like making a split bearing that big! The yoke end could have been made part of the arm, but that would have meant a lot more milling. 87.5 ways to make most parts!
can you use the links you made?Possible - need to check some dimensions. I extended the tabs slightly to give clearance for the center bracket.
:cheers:
Awesome work, as usual Chris!!! I tune in every day to see what amazing thing you have done.---Brian
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:I think my count ends with whole numbers are 25, the rest is the fractional stuff! :Lol:
Following along. You are right about the 87.5 ways to make any given part. For me the 0.5 way is when I start a part and realize I've bu&&ered something and can't get there from here- and start over! :cheers:
Hi Chris, still following along quietly.Hope you can get to join the Retirement Club safely and comfortably soon, and get more fun time in your shop! :cheers:
The last months before my retirement have been more busy and exciting than expected.
Chris:Hi Don,
After you are done assembling-disassembling-reassembling this beast for the eleventy-eleven thousandth time, will the nuts and bolts get Loctited? If not, how do you keep them from vibrating loose?
Don
I have heard that a Weir pump is a tricky build, though I'm sure you are more than up to the job!Do you know what makes it hard? So far its looking like a simpler set of parts than most of the other ones, which have lots more passages in one block. The plans I got for it are the LSBC ones, maybe its because it's drawn to a small scale? If I make that one I would make it larger.
ChrisHi Phil - When that other thread was going I did do a CAD version of how thiers worked to figure it out, its a decent looking design. Far as I can tell blackgates will sell the drawings just with the castings, but I have not contacted them to ask (yet).One thing that seems to be common is that larger scale versions of this sort of pump seem to work better, the really small ones appear to be quite fussy. The plans I got from Kennions were set up for just a 3/8" bore piston, which is one of the smaller ones I've seen. Whichever one I settle on will likely be scaled up to something in the 1" to 1-1/2" bore range, which makes laying out all the passages a bit easier plus seems to make them run better. Also running them without any load on the pump end appears to be an issue, since the piston can just snap one end to the other very fast. Should be interesting once I get to it and its fun to look ahead - for now, still lots to do on the Mann truck with its compound engine, which is a first for me!
Dont forget there is always the Southworth range of pumps as well. The castings etc are now available from Blackgates in the UK. Not sure if they do just the drawings.
http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php?topic=8841.0 (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php?topic=8841.0)
https://modelengineeringwebsite.com/Southworth_feed_pump.html (https://modelengineeringwebsite.com/Southworth_feed_pump.html)
Phil
Chris:They are .500" and .844" bore, 1" stroke, scaled directly from the originals. Mann did use slightly different sizes on their various models over the years.
What will the bores and stroke of your Mann compound engine be?
Don
Those are very fidly bits :ThumbsUp: what are you using as a spring to keep it locked ?No spring at this point, just gravity. If needed I have strips of clock pendulum suspension spring steel that could be bent and put behind the latch handle.
:popcorn: :popcorn: :cheers:
Very well done, Chris.Thanks Chuck!
Chuck
you're going to make this way to easy for the elves to use it for a beer run :DrinkPint:As long as I get some of the beer, okay by me! Lets see, how many thimble-fulls to the pint.... :DrinkPint:
The block 'casting' (though I am sure Surus will be shaking his trunk at that designation! ) wieghs in at 3 pounds.
:lolb:The block 'casting' (though I am sure Surus will be shaking his trunk at that designation! ) wieghs in at 3 pounds.
Don't worry he won't want to use his trunk to fondle that 'casting' ;)
Jo
P.S. It is an odd noise when he sniggers down his trunk at something like people thinking barstock could be considered a casting. ::)
on air my compound is just better than a single cylinder,, it actually ran with the low pressure valve chest off,, some separate fitting to provide air as a twin would be good for testing and breaking in...On your engine, what are the bore/stroke and pipe size between the cylinders? Think that the size of the pipe is a tuning thing, to get proper expansion and flow?
7/8" stroke,, HP .75" LP 1.25" I have receiver pipes in 1/4" and 3/8" didn't make much changes on air,, need to get it running on steam soon..Thanks, good data points for comparison.
Awwww my hero the human none stop machine!!!!...... excellent results as always. :Love:Thanks Don! I tried finding an appropriate Energizer Bunny robot picture, this is as close as I could find! (no, I didn't make it, but now I want to make one! )
Don :drinking-41:
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:I got a start on boring the LP side, stopped for a dentist appointment and want to try and balance it a little more to run the speed up a little bit. Too fast and its a b b bi bit o o o f f f a a a ru ru mm bb ll ee!
As LBSC in the UK used to say "run the lathe as fast as you can, without causing an earthquake" :o
He obviously had seen some jobs that were not counterbalanced perfectly....... :Lol: :cheers:
Looking great! No calls from the US Geophysical Survey as yet, complaining about seismographs going off scale ? :Lol:The neighbors cat ran and hid at the harmonics from the boring bar till I got the height adjusted right, but no shopquake alarms went off!
If they do call, just yell " no, I didn't want anchovies, don't forget the hot peppers!" and hang up. Gets 'em every time. :cheers:
That's a fine piece of metal carving to follow along with :) :ThumbsUp: :wine1:I already had a big bar of it on the shelf so an easy choice. I really like how it cuts.
Did you chose 303 for a reason or was it what you had in stock? (or have I missed something :facepalm2: )
Chris another fantastic build, thanks! Can't believe I missed it for 24 pages.....but there area a lot of nooks and crannies here.:cheers:
they really want to see it get done so they steal for the beer run,, unless you get some snow then I would put a lock on the lombard..looks great.. :cheers:Very cool to finally see an engine block up on the boiler!
What happened to the photos? I dont see any of them now.Still showing here. Sometimes the photo host hiccups. Reload?
Nice work on the cylinder block, Chris.Thanks Chuck! Now for the nerve-wracking part, drilling all the other holes/passages without goofing up all the work into it so far!
You get more out of a Sherline than most people can even imagine.
Chuck
At least you discovered this before committing to cutting :cheers:Definitely! It would have worked fine the original way, but it would not have been accurate to the original machine. New plan sheets are printed out so can get back to the shop.
You do more in a day than I do in 3 weeks, Chris! :popcorn:Thanks Kim!
So are you going to cut openings in the crosshead guides? Or will it be the closed cylinder it currently is?
Your engine is really starting to take shap!
Kim
It's definitely looking like "a hundred lbs of potatoes in a ten lb bag" kind of machine! :Lol:Yeah, the ones on the Marion slew/crowd/steering engines were a tricky one!
At least there's no flat bottomed internal square cavities in this one, needing special broaching tooling...... small blessings - I'll take 'em! :naughty: :atcomputer:
Chris:ThumbsUp:
Looking good............Just a small observation.
Your "Crosshead Tubes" are known as "Trunk Guides" in the UK at least. :)
Phil
An amazing amount of work going into that block! :popcorn: :popcorn:Lots more to go! :cheers:
Kim
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Hope the shop elves are staying out of the egg nog and Navy rum until they are officially "punched out" for holidays at end of shift tomorrow. :cheers:
Those are rather nice Chris :)I have asked them if they will be making/selling them in the museum gift shop, seems like they would be popular with visitors!
Jo
They would also make killer business cards if you ever wanted to start a business making exquisite models on commission.Enough years making a living, I don't want to go back to office life!!
OTOH, never take my advice. Trying to turn a hobby into a business is the surest way to kill a hobby.
They would also make killer business cards if you ever wanted to start a business making exquisite models on commission.
OTOH, never take my advice. Trying to turn a hobby into a business is the surest way to kill a hobby.
Chris,Only 'strand'ed for a day... :Lol:
Those poor elves, you left them stranded on that string of lights.
Art
Not a lot of shop time today, did get a start on tapping all the mounting holes in the block...
Going to tackle them in groups, learned in the past (finally) not to do too many 2-56 or smaller holes at a time, or fine finger control goes and taps get broken.
For some reason I am thinking of Guinness.... Strange...Not a lot of shop time today, did get a start on tapping all the mounting holes in the block...
Going to tackle them in groups, learned in the past (finally) not to do too many 2-56 or smaller holes at a time, or fine finger control goes and taps get broken.
Yes indeed. Not to mention dividing a tedious task into small, time-separated "blocks" so that the completion of a block provides a soupçon of accomplishment that energizes the "tapper" for the next block. Works well unless the "tapper" is tapping kegs. :-)
"For some reason I am thinking of Guinness.... Strange..."Just wieghed it after the lapping was completed, and the original 3 pound round bar has been reduced to 0.6 pounds! Got a few slabs that were sawn off that could be re-used, plus the disc for holding on the faceplate that was sawn off the base, so its not all swarf-ificated.
Are you sure you weren't flushing out an old steel boiler when you were thinking of Guinness? :Lol:
Just joking, I used to like a pint of Guinness once in a while. Another one I used to like was Wm Younger's 'Tartan' - a very smooth pint. Not sure if it is still made, but it hasn't been available in my area for a long time.
Anyway back on topic - the Mann cylinder block - looks great! :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: what was the total weight machined away from the parent round bar? Just curious. (No, really, the shop elves gave up that "How many ounces of stainless got machined" gambling pool about it after they passed $80,731.25 in the pot) :Lol:
And the Guinness is much better than the horse-exhaust that passes for beer made in the US!
Oh yes, some of the microbrews here are excellent. Some are also exhaust, but many are great. A friend of mine had a brewing hobby, which the rest of us encouraged because he would bring sample bottles of new recipes along when we all went out kayaking. :DrinkPint: He eventually went bigger and opened his own microbrewery, then sold it off a few years later when he retired and moved south for the winters. Great for him, left the rest of us thirsty though.... :Lol: One thing he did every year was a Christmas special, usually some variant of a Belgian Triple or Quad, some wound up in the 15 to 18% alcohol range. Amazingly tasty and smooth, no alcohol bite to them at all. I nicknamed them his Ninja beers, since they would sneak up behind you and whack you in the head! Sitting down, sipping one was great. Then try standing up and walllkkinnggg.... (trip)... (splat)...And the Guinness is much better than the horse-exhaust that passes for beer made in the US!
Except of course for your microbrewed 'craft' beers in the USA, many of which are fabulous.
Last time I was in Hawai'i (in the Summer of 2019) there was nothing to beat sitting down with a pint or two of ice cold Maui Coconut 'Hiwa' (porter) after a day of sweltering heat... :DrinkPint:
:cheers:
Now you are making me thirsty, but it's late and I have work tomorrow!Thirsty here too - no work tomorrow, but I just have to find where the shop elves hid the key to the cooler....
We have brewing gear here at home - we have made Russian Imperial Stout, Porter, and a Belgian Pilsner called Patersbier. Also mead.
Haven't done any for a while, though - life seems to just keep getting busier!
That place in Maine sounds great...
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:Yup, pretty narrow sections, but I was going for the max slide link length. The plate is steel so still strong. Much happier with the motion now! Got a few cover parts painted this evening, can get back to engine internal bits next.
Not much left of that plate after clearancing! Looking great.
Hi Chris, looking good and I almost think that I am making this as well ,as all the parts come together. !! what with mentally pre-empting and making the parts in my imagination ?!!!If the engine is finished in your mind, how well does it (the engine that is) run? :Lol:
nice work
Willy
I wasn't going to say anything, but in my mind, your engine runs great. I think I hear a tiny knock in the left crosshead as the rod goes over centre though....... :Lol:That knocking sound is a shop elf that got caught in the works, its trying to climb out of your head! :ROFL:
Now taking cover......just kidding around! :Lol: :cheers:
Many thanks Chris for your "Goldilocks Machining" method for piston ring grooves. As a rest from my Clayton Steam Wagon I am attempting my first IC engine. Design converted to metric (i struggle to count to more than ten :headscratch: ) and have seen so many different measurements for using Viton instead of cast iron piston rings.Friend of mine had a cat that could count to ten on one paw... Maybe it was only 9? Anyway, lotsa toes!
Really enjoying your builds and learning so much, :old: :DrinkPint: :happyreader: :NotWorthy:
John
The wrong side of the line...............oh how well acquainted I am with that zone.Life in the breakdown lane! :Lol: At least the rods are simple parts, nothing wrong with the engine block.
Sorry to hear that - but still, overall such an impressive build. :NotWorthy:
So, you really are human. I watch you make part after part and never a mistake (at least none mentioned). Creative, skilful, and error free - it's just too much perfection to invest in one guy. :-)Oh, plenty of mistakes. Some big, some small. The little ones can usually be worked in (this part a touch too narrow, make the next one that much thicker). The trick is not letting the shop elves know about the big ones, or they snicker at me for weeks! :Lol:
Just kidding, Chris; I admire your work immensely and have every one of your build threads bookmarked and backed up. Keep up the good work.
Hi Chris...still active and have been making the Indicaters and connections ready for a test run ....Watch this space ?!!!!If the engine is finished in your mind, how well does it (the engine that is) run? :Lol:
Willy
it's those fiddly bits that can drive you crazy..(to late for me, the crazy car is a high mileage vehicle)Its no drive, its a short putt!
I look on in awe.
Hi Chris, very important test that. You did it deliberately didn’t you? Yes? Just to check those dimensions?Oh, um, yeah, deliberate test, yeah thats it! :embarassed: :Lol:
And you know what they say, much easier to machine it off than to machine it back on again!
On the other hand, these days with additive machining....
Great progress even allowing for minor setbacks.
MJM460
The key phrase when this sort of little hoo ha occurs is "tolerance stackup test - all part of the development." :Lol: :cheers:This particular one was a stack-up (to use a polite phrase! ) of one part - the con rods were made .100 wider than the design, so they hit the ends of the guides at the highest angles in the crank travel. I got one trimmed down this morning to proper size, looks to be what it needed. One more later and another reassembly test.
Better hurry up on that reassembly test Chris, I would imagine that there is more than one elf starting to turn blue holding his breath and wondering 1) Will it fit? and more importantly 2) Will it still look pretty?And 3) Can we take it out for a beer run tonight! :Lol:
Don
You say that as if their being thirsty was a new thing....... :Lol:True. So, thirsty and angry about it!?
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Watching on Chris........ :happyreader: ....Putting the drains in the steam chests is something I did since they would not fit under the cylinders. The originals were on the cylinders, I just don't have drain valves that small.
From the original design, by locating the engine steam drain ports in the engine valve blocks and so close to the steam admission, does this suggest that only the steam inlet lines to the engine were bled/drained...as opposed to baring the engine to a mid stroke & using the steam as an engine warmer?
Beaut build :cheers:
Derek
Yea ,,getting there ...soon up and running.. :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Are those drain cocks on the steam chests and will there be more on the cylinders ??Yup, drains on the steam chests, I couldn't come up with ones small enough to fit under the cylinders, mainly at the bottom end with all the other stuff in the way. Not ideal, but better than no drains at all.
willy
I wish I had something intelligent to say instead of just standing gawping like a Barbarian at the Gates of Rome.
would you call that just little whittle :ROFL:Such a cute little part!
Wow, Chris! That is a lot of piping in a small space.The whole engine/transmission is going to be 10 pounds of machinery in a 5 pound bag! Some saying like that.... :Lol:
Looking good. :popcorn: :popcorn:
Kim
Hi Chris,I paid about $40 per set of four from Shapeways. It was mainly an experiment to see how they would turn out, plus it got me the exact sizes/shapes that I wanted. I had included them in my (teensy) storefront on Shapeways, actually sold some to someone else so I made back $5 of the cost! They wanted a slightly smaller pipe size, so I had actually put up both sizes. For the future, if I need a shape that is really hard to fabricate and is not too large, I'd do it again. The prices go up pretty quick for volume of metal, but the quality was quite good, very good detail and since its lost-wax-cast, no mold lines or misalignment issues.
For the Piping how do the prices from Shapeways compare to the prices from PM Research?
Gerald.
Silently following along Chris. Love watching this project come together. :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:Great to have you along for the ride, but pass the popcorn, getting hungry over here!! :Lol:
Just a thought Chris, before any rework - you are checking the valve travel at full valve stroke position of the expansion link?Thanks for the popcorn!
If yes I would suggest making a new longer slide valve rather than soldering a sliver on and refinishing. If the sliver ever came loose it could be a bad day in engine city...... Engine looks great though. Here's a popcorn shipment.
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Question Chris--Do you always lap the face of the slider? Do you lap the matching part that the slider sets against?----BrianYes to both. I lap both mating surfaces on a lapping plate, gives the best seal even at low pressure. The finish from milling, at least what I get, is not good enough and results in air or steam blowing past the valve. Lapping just takes a few minutes. I don't lap the mating surfaces against each other, that could cause a low area on the port face.
Thanks Chris--I'm still following your posts. You are doing a marvelous job.---Brian
I don't know why, but I always like making slide valves for engines I have built. A satisfying part. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:The shop elves read that and headed for their secret bunker (usually used when I find out they drank MY beer too! ) :Lol:
Good luck with the troubleshooting tomorrow. May the shooting be of the peashooter type rather than the full auto M60 type..... :Lol:
advanced murpholgy states if you take something apart and put it back together enough times you will eventually end up with two of them, neither will function!! :slap:That could be useful for breeding engines, as long as you can get them to work again after breeding... :insane: :noidea:
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn::cheers:
Great result! well done. :cheers:
Looking wonderful Chris (as usual) Looking forward to it running :popcorn: TerryOur posts crossed, time-wise. I am really looking forward to it too, after all this time into it! Holey tooling plate, construction started last May, 3D CAD drawing started at the beginning of last March. Wow, time flies when you're making swarf!
Glad you found the leaky plug. Sounds like the fix for "plugiasis" is not too painful. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:Its the driver's coat rack. Yeah....!
as to that long steam chest stud /loose nut- isn't that where the steam test cert tag attaches? (plausible story - no charge) :Lol:
Just had an idea for the plug (the one remaining brain cell fired at last!). I have had good luck with annealed copper gaskets under hex headed plugs for steam passages in the past. They will not blow out or come loose like tiny fibre gaskets can. Just food for thought. I cut them out, heated them to red and cooled them in air two or three times for the annealing. Hope this helps. :cheers:The pressure gauge came with copper gaskets, first time I have used them. Do you cone them? The ones with the gauge had a slight cone shape.
rig a second set of pipes or a pull a vacuum on the exhaust pipe.. my compound is really running on just the HP while on air.. had it turning over with the LP chest cover off..Interesting idea, though I dont have a vacuum pump. Second set of pipes is not hard, I have enough elbows and tees to make it up, and can quickly copy the flanges from the first set. The exhaust from each could be a simple straight pipe or just left off. Going to try it with the compound set first though, really curious to see how it goes. With just the HP running, and the LP cover off, there is just enough friction that it wont turn the corner at the end, it needs a little running in - could always hook up a electric motor like Brian does too.
I'm sitting on the edge of my chair, waiting to see this thing run. Kudos in advance Chris. Sounds like you have a real winner. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:Better get up and walk around some, or your legs will cramp up and you'll fall off the chair edge! :lolb:
Just one last check.... :thinking:The cylinders have some light oil already, and I had re-applied some the other day to the rod seals too, so that part is fine. Good to know about the WD-40 effect, was not aware of that one!
A few drops of very light oil [sewing machine grade] in the ports & a few hand rotations then see if that little lubrication had overcome the stiction created by the mechanical deformation-compression on the Viton o-rings?
[do not be tempted to spray with WD-40 ...or RP-7 type fluids...these can cause temporary swelling of Viton/FKM/FPM elastomers]
Derek
Another major milestone reached (on the bench) :cheers:From what I've read, by they time they got to full speed in top gear (unless the Stig was driving) they were too scary to be around. Especially with the solid wheels on pavers/cobblestones! They also had options for rubber wheels.
While it obviously wasn't a racer I see that it still could move more than fast enough for the roads of the day back then.
Absolutely superb Chris :cheers:Never heard that trick, seems like a good way to lubricate it without attracting dirt. I've also got some Prolix spray that I use on the gun actions, sprays on then dries into the surface, some sort of dry lube, teflon or something.
......some beeswax pressed onto the chain for a moment will quieten the noise down if you wish :naughty: ....
Derek
Beeswax, now that makes me think of my tin of Lumpy's Crack Wax. Used to use it on my bike chain. Couldn't find the box I figure it's in though, good thing there's 3 feet of snow on the ground. No worry of missing it for the time being. :lolb:
Art
Chris,Whoops - forgot to click on the last button - try it again. Sorry!
Video comes up as unavailable for me , says it private
Cheers
Mark
Absolutely fantastic Chris. I love the control of speed that valve gives you. You'll need to chain it down with a lock and key or the elves will be making beer runs in the dark of night.Too late...
Chris, I am quiet, but following every posting with pleasure.Thanks Achim! Great to have you following along!
Nice progress with your steam lorry.
Note to self - never hire a shop elf named after Flip Wilson. :Lol:Up at our archery league, with the 3D foam animal targets, the turkey is known as Flip The Bird...!
Anyway hope the wrecker is not too long coming, and you can get back to the truck's fuel tank job. :cheers:
(PS I not sure how you would go about it, but maybe a breathalyzer interlock on the throttle would be worthwhile to stop repeat offences by the elves!) :Lol:
Just a terrific looking model Chris - you have done an awesome job. Thanks for taking the time and trouble to share the build.Thanks Simon - been a fun journey so far! :cheers: :cheers:
Simon.
and you think those cute little jackstands are going to stop the elves from joy rides, they'll just use them to install foam rubber on the wheels to aid in sneaking out of the shop. :ROFL: its all looking extremely great. :whoohoo:Yeah, well, they may still be nervous about working around wheels from what happened back when I made them...
Splendid :praise2: :praise2: :praise2: :wine1: You must be chuffed (groan)Yup - that is the shop elves old Mamod steam wagon, an SW1 model. They picked it up partway through the build since they couldn't wait to do more beer runs.
Is that a Mamod steam wagon in the background or something much more esoteric?
Great result, Chris. It’s really running well.Its definitely forcing my lips to move a distance at the ends into a smile!
“Commissioning testing” is what it’s called. Very necessary to prove that it all works correctly before turning it over to the end user. Definitely fits with in the definition of work, (force moving through a distance!)
MJM460
Hi Chris, what scale were you thinking for the Ward station engine? (half full size would still be a tad big) :Lol:Half scale? (gack... cough...) Yeah, that would still be bigger than a house! I was thinking more like 1:32nd scale, even at that size the flywheels (yes, two of them) are 7" diameter. I'd go smaller, but then the fasteners get down to watchmaker size, I prefer to go 1-72 at the smallest, like2-56 better.
Hi ChrisHi John! We've been getting lots of 25 degree days too. Problem is that its Fahrenheit! :cheers:
great to see your wagon at the running stage I enjoy following your work it looks like more interesting projects coming .Here in melbourne we don't think of it been to cold to go out side at the moment we have days of 25 degrees so it is to nice to go inside the shed .during this lock down we can spend time out side .
John
Chris,I'd spend three weeks opening all those teeny bottles to fill a mug to drink it. :lolb:
Looks and runs great! Good thing OSHA didn't see the elves riding on top of the cab. Not sure what you'd do with all that Elfsteiner beer if they got hurt. :mischief:
Art