Shay 100th birthday party

[Dan Rowe]

Shay shop number 3288, Lima Stone #10, never left Lima OH It is now on display at the Allen County Museum. There is a birthday party on September 21.

I will be there and I will have a table for some of my Shay work and Shay related stuff. If you want to play stump the chump, ask me a Shay engineering question. A good question will give you something from my collection. If I can not answer the question or know where the answer is located, then I will give you a copy of my articles "The Nuts and Bolts of Shays".

https://allencountymuseum.org/event/celebration-of-our-shays-100th-birthday/

Cheers Dan

[crueby]

Happy birthday to the Shay!

[CI]

Thanks for posting that info.
I am a longtime fan of the Shay locomotives.

A funny story, I was at an my wife's cousin's house years ago, and noticed a photo of a locomotive on the wall.
I asked about it, and they said "Yes, my husband's dad ran a lumber company, and they had two of those".
I did not know anything about a Shay at the time, but I was highly impressed by the quality of the photo hanging on the wall.

Years later, I starting chatting with folks, including Dan, about Shays, and it clicked in my mind that the odd looking locomotive at my inlaw's house could be a Shay.
I called them up, asked them if I could come over and take photos, and they said yes.

Turns out it was a Lima Shay, and their family lumber company owned two of them.
And the photo on the wall turned out to be the original photo sent to the Shay owner from Lima.

Photos attached.
The Shay design is an amazing tale of ingenuity, in my opinion.

.

[PaulR]

And the photo on the wall turned out to be the original photo sent to the Shay owner from Lima.
quote]
That's quite a locomotive, even to the yes of a Brit, and love the lumber yard photo. Thanks for sharing.

[Dan Rowe]

I have a bunch of pasters, the small Lima photo with the specs on the back, but I have never seen one of the big versions. That is shop number 3296. Vestal Lumber owned 6 Shays. That is the last one that they owned.

Thanks for the photos.
Cheers Dan

[Dan Rowe]

Paul, a single Shay went to England shop number 618. It was one of the few Shays built with a copper firebox.

Cheers Dan

[PaulR]

Paul, a single Shay went to England shop number 618. It was one of the few Shays built with a copper firebox.

Any idea where or what for?

[Dan Rowe]

Paul,
Staffordshire Steel & Ingot Iron Works, #1 named "Lima", Bilston, England

Here is where to look up Shays by shop number and a lot of other options, just choose 'Lima#' then select 618 for a photo.
https://www.shaylocomotives.com/data/dataframe.htm

Cheers Dan

[PaulR]

Paul,
Staffordshire Steel & Ingot Iron Works, #1 named "Lima", Bilston, England

Interesting, that's less than 10 miles from me as the crow flies! Seems the engine had a very short life, built 1900 scrapped 1918.

[CI]

The detail in the photo is quite impressive when you zoom in on it.
Must have been a big box cameral or something.

.

[CI]

Here is another Vestal Shay.
They actually gave me this apparently original photograph, but it is about 1/4th the size of the 108 photo.

.

[crueby]

Great looking engine!

[Dan Rowe]

That is shop number 3284. If you want to see the left side of this one and the other Vestal Shays
https://www.shaylocomotives.com/data/dataframe.htm

Choose V in the Shays by owners section. Vestal Lumber was in TN and GA and there are photos of most of them.

Cheers Dan

[Dan Rowe]

I took a better look at the photos and wow a feature I have never spotted.

Look at #107. The line in the middle of the boiler goes into the upper section of the smoke box. This is a superheater supply pipe from the superheater to the steam engine. Now look to see the valve, Shutting this valve will stop the engine. There has to be a bypass valve for steam flow to the engine. Now look at the pipe just above the forward running board. That is the exhaust line.

I have to think about that valve for a while. The throttle valve for a superheated Shay is in the smoke box, not on the backhead.

Cheers Dan

[crueby]

Okay, question: I don't know much about superheaters and how they are plumbed, but why would there need to be a bypass line around that valve? I would think that valve would be there just as a way to isolate the engine during maintenance? I've not seen any references about running a superheat boiler without the superheater, though I'll admit I've never investigated it!

[Dan Rowe]

Chris, I made a bad assumption because I am a trained Marine Engineer, and on ships, there has to be a way to isolate the superheater for warming up, and for the worst case, a superheater tube lets go. The boiler has to be shut down for that type of repair, and that is not convenient at times.

Back to Shays, the superheater loop is simple to describe. Saturated steam leaves the steam dome like usual, but not with an external steam pipe. On a Shay without superheat, the saturated steam line is visible, and it goes from the steam dome to the cab and the throttle valve on the backhead to the steam engine.

So with superheat, saturated steam goes to the smoke box and is connected without a valve to the superheater tubes. A superheater tube makes a loop inside a flue tube from the smoke box to the fire box and back. The size of a regular boiler tube is usually 2", and a flue tube is about 5" to fit a superheater loop. There will be several flue tubes with superheater tubes, and a lot more boiler tubes.
There is a manifold to supply the superheater inlet and one at the outlet that is attached to the throttle valve. The throttle valve is operated by the throttle lever or Johnson bar on the backhead with a rod that connects the lever to the valve. This detail is also internal to the boiler. Superheated steam now leaves the throttle valve in the smoke box and goes to the steam engine. This is the line with the valve.

That valve is not normal and had to be a special order. I was assuming that it could be used while the locomotive was moving down the road, which would require a superheater bypass valve. Well, there is not a superheater bypass valve. I can only guess as to why that valve is there on a factory photo. Someone wanted it for some reason it was not needed.

The Shay in Cadillac MI, shop number 549 has a steam stop valve on the saturated steam line. It did not leave the loco works with this valve. My guess is a leaky throttle valve, and for some reason, it was simpler to add a stop valve than to fix the throttle valve.

Good question, Chris. I hope my answer is helps.
On the ships, we had to work fast with no books at times. I was lucky, and we never hit a bridge. The engine room does not have a window, so I do not know how close the bridges were. My job was to keep the screw turning and the lights on.

[crueby]

Great  description  Dan, thanks!   The only ships I have been  on was day cruises on the Sabino in Mystic Seaport and the Liberty Ship in Baltimore,  the year before that container ship brought down the bridge.


Sounds like superheaters were not at all common on the Shays. Could it have been for a location with little access to water during the trip? Thats assuming the extra expansion of the hotter steam give greater range?


Thanks!
Chris

[CI]

Superheaters are about efficiencty.
Boiling water is 212 F, and that is as hot as it will ever get.
A superheater allows the steam to absorb heat that would otherwise go out the smokestack and be wasted.
Steam temperatures are not limited to 212 F.
Superheated steam can reach extraordinary temperatuers, and you don't want to inadvertantly come into contact with it, especially when it is under high pressure.

Superheat = less coal or wood burned for the same amount of work done.

I think locomotives did not have condensers, ie: there was no recovery of water from the used steam; probably for practical purposes.

.

[Dan Rowe]

Lima was not really interested in superheaters for Shays. The cost for new tooling for the smoke box and fire box tube sheets and other parts might have been thought to be worth the effort. The west coast loggers wanted superheaters and all weather steel cabs, which were not standard but available for extra cost. The Willametet Iron Works in Portland OR, made all sorts of things for logging and steam skidders, donkeys, and yard loaders. They had rebuilt a few Shays that were wrecks when they came in. Most of the Shay patents had expired, so they set up to make Shay clones. They made 23 Willamettes. Lima countered with the 3PC13 Shay. It had the features the loggers were looking for, and 24 were sold.

Superheaters, yes, more efficiency, so less fuel. In theory, the same amount of fuel and water will get you further with more efficiency. Lots of locomotive tests were done to prove theories.
More heat or energy is loaded into the steam, so more power and tractive effort. In the tractive effort formula, the factor for saturated steam is 0.75, and for superheated steam, the factor is 0.85, yielding a greater tractive effort with superheat.

The only steam locomotives I have ever heard of that had condensers were in Australia. There is no water in the western desert, so a condenser was the only option. The weight of the condenser was an issue.

A locomotive with no condenser is an open system. Add the condenser, and now it is a closed system.
Cheers Dan

[55fairlane]

I worked at the steel foundry in lima and remember watching as the lima locomotive works was torn down, ......sad.....

There is a shay in the park at Harod Ohio.  Just west of Lima off 309

The nickel plate rail road 765 is just a couple miles from me, I see it on the rails behind the shop on a regular basis

[uuu]

London Underground used to run a couple of condensing engines: 

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/the-surprising-story-of-steam-trains-in-the-central-line-tunnels-67050/

Wilf