Author Topic: Elmer's 43 "Build" Questions  (Read 6381 times)

Offline Bear

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Elmer's 43 "Build" Questions
« on: September 12, 2020, 02:25:44 AM »
Starting on my 2nd engine, Elmer's Horizontal Mill engine #43. My first was an oscillating engine.

However, I am off to a unique start  :-[. I drilled and countersunk 2 of the base holes for the cylinder. Still need to do the holes for the column. The point where I did not go in accordance with the plans was countersinking the wrong side of the base plate so that my engine will sit kind of backwards to the plans. See photo below.

I don't think this will cause any issues in the build (other than maybe confusing me when I look at the plans). The orientation will be similar to that of Elmer's # 33 Mill Engine. Anyone see any issues in proceeding in this manner?

Online crueby

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Re: Elmer's 43 "Build" Questions
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2020, 03:07:27 AM »
Been there, done that!




Reversing everything will work, but as you said will be confusing when reading the plans. Other options, will the bad countersinks be covered by other parts? If so, leave them. Or, drill them out larger and plug them, loctite in rod and redrill. Or use our old friend JB Weld to fill the countersinks and drill through the epoxy. Not that I have done any of those things. Um, today anyway!

Offline Bear

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Re: Elmer's 43 "Build" Questions
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2020, 04:15:55 AM »
Good ideas. I did measure to see if I could just countersink from the other side; but, the depth of the holes relative to the thickness of the material is awfully close. Maybe, the disorientation would be a good learning experience  ;D.

Offline Flyboy Jim

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Re: Elmer's 43 "Build" Questions
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2020, 04:22:53 AM »
I think that just for the sake of simplicity, I'd do what's necessary to get things set up as the plans call for........even if you remake the part. It's just a small piece of aluminum plate. Might save other problems later.

Jim
Sherline 4400 Lathe
Sherline 5400 Mill
"You can do small things on big machines, but you can do small things on small machines".

Offline Bear

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Re: Elmer's 43 "Build" Questions
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2020, 04:37:23 AM »
Well, Jim and crueby, after thinking a bit more on your helpful posts, I went and did some measuring, and determined it will be an easy fix. The portion with the holes can be cut out to form the somewhat "L" shaped based, which I will do after I turn over the base and re-drill my holes, and then countersink from the other side. No one will ever know  ;D .

Thank's for the help, guys.

Offline ShopShoe

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Re: Elmer's 43 "Build" Questions
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2020, 02:17:49 PM »
I'm glad it's working out OK. I sometimes mark things, even with arrows pointing a standard direction (my own standard) to keep track of it all.

If (when?) you have to remake something, the good thing will be it will take less time to make the new version.

ShopShoe

PS: Another thing I sometimes do is to go ahead and blue the stock on the face I need to work in the next work session before taking a break. That way I will come back to lay out the feature in the right place.

SS

Offline arona

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Re: Elmer's 43 "Build" Questions
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2020, 05:14:19 PM »
Look here, maybe it helps.

arona

Offline Jo

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Re: Elmer's 43 "Build" Questions
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2020, 06:09:31 PM »
Another thing that may confuse you Bear is you are using a centre drill to form the countersink: Centre drills have an angle of 60 degrees, countersinks are 90 degrees. It would be better if they were 90 degrees to fit the head of the screws  ::)

Jo
« Last Edit: September 12, 2020, 07:36:34 PM by Jo »
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Offline Bear

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Re: Elmer's 43 "Build" Questions
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2020, 06:58:41 PM »
You are absolutely correct, Jo. This time I will drill through (going to do that now), and then I will buy a proper countersink, and finish the holes. Thank you for all the responses so far.

Offline mklotz

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Re: Elmer's 43 "Build" Questions
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2020, 07:17:25 PM »
Metric countersinks have a 90 degree included angle (45 degree half angle).
Inferial countersinks as used in the USA have an 82 degree included angle (41 degree half angle).

https://www.kbctools.com/products/search/countersink

It's worthwhile checking your screws to see which is needed.  I made a gauge to simplify this...

https://www.homemadetools.net/forum/countersink-gage-56314#post83429
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Offline Jasonb

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Re: Elmer's 43 "Build" Questions
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2020, 07:33:54 PM »
Or you could just counter bore them and use cap head screws :)

If you are buying CSK bits I'd also suggest adding a spotting drillor two to the shopping list as they are a bit more robust than ctr drills which are best kept for when you specifically need a 60deg hole eg when drilling for tailstock ctr support. Here in the UK a 90deg spotting drill can also double as a CSK so you don't have to go back and CSK the holes unless in a case like yours they are on the opposite side

Offline Bear

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Re: Elmer's 43 "Build" Questions
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2020, 08:10:40 PM »
Marv and Jason, thank's. I will try to figure out the angle of the 6/32 screws, or I may do the cap screws. Will see. The local supply house is closed until Monday. In the meantime, I have finished drilling all 4 holes.

Offline Bear

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Re: Elmer's 43 "Build" Questions
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2020, 09:10:04 PM »
Progress. Ran the fly cutter over the top surface. As you can see in the photo, there are 2 extra holes that I will have the option of removing by making the L shape. In any event, I will leave the rectangle shape until I have countersunk or counterbored the holes which might help for clamping purposes.

Also, a photo of some brass I just received yesterday from OnLineMetals.com. This will get me through this project, and them some.

Offline Flyboy Jim

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Re: Elmer's 43 "Build" Questions
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2020, 04:49:03 AM »
Or you could just counter bore them and use cap head screws :)


That's what I did on mine. worked great.

Jim
Sherline 4400 Lathe
Sherline 5400 Mill
"You can do small things on big machines, but you can do small things on small machines".

Offline Bear

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Re: Elmer's 43 "Build" Questions
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2020, 10:42:35 PM »
Got a little more done today. I worked on the column. I still have it in the mill vise as can be seen in the photo. Question: Do I need to ream the 3/8" crankshaft bearing hole, or will simply drilling be okay since a bearing is going in? I really don't want to spend the money on a 3/8" reamer. I will buy a 3/16" reamer for the bearing hole, or possibly oversize the hole to use the 1/4" reamer I do have.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2020, 10:48:00 PM by Bear »