Author Topic: Chris's Mann Wagon Build  (Read 73566 times)

Offline crueby

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Chris's Mann Wagon Build
« on: May 25, 2020, 04:43:09 PM »
All ready here to start the build on a 5-ton Mann Patent Steam Wagon in 1:8 scale! Been planning this one for a while now, researching the machines (with help from some of you out there, Thanks! ). There are a handful of these left in the world, scattered around a number of countries. Unfortunately the closest one I have found is all the way over in Vancouver, while I am on the wrong side of the continent to pop over and see it. This video was the first look I had at one, being loaded up with a small steam shovel:
Another video taken from inside the cab, shows the compound engine nicely:
and one driving by:
Here is a great video showing the details around the engine:

So, I took all those, plus details from a stack of old books that I have accumulated, along with some photos that the curator out at the museum min Vancouver kindly sent me, and started drawing the wagon in Fusion 3D. Started with a full-sized version, then took a copy of that and scaled it down to 1:8 original size, which worked out to be large enough for a good boiler/engine but just small enough that I can still move it without a crane - it will be around 32" long, most of that the cargo bed. The boiler will be about 3" diameter, with a two-cylinder compound engine and a 3 speed transmission, down to a chain drive to the differential on the rear axle. Here is a render from the 3D CAD model:

A view from underneath:

and a closer view from up top:


I've gotten the workbench cleared off, moved the excavator up to the big bench in the wood shop where it has room to maneuver, and brought in the books and plans, along with the materials for the boiler and engine:

The big steel bar was a good find - was pricing out short lengths and found this offcut drop at Yarde Metals - over 3' long for less money than a 1' piece at the normal suppliers. Heavy beast, 50 pounds, but a lifetime supply of 2.5" diameter 303 stainless! Also had the engine components 3D printed for reference, have found that a very handy thing to help keep track of parts with odd shapes and to plan out order of cuts.

Got the 2D paper plans all made up from the 3D model, along with figuring out the holding fixture for the engine block, shown with the stack of books. One nice find was a copy of an original Mann catalog that I got from the Road Locomotive Society over in England. The gentleman who runs the storefront was kind enough to dig out their copy and scan it for me (reprints were long sold out) - I sent them a nice donation for the time and postage, was great that he was willing to take the time for that.


And to fill out the rest of the 'castings', my bar stock supply should work out pretty well. Also have enough copper sheet stock for the end caps on the boiler.

So, stay tuned for actual fabrication. I am going to start with the boiler, since that is actually the center of the structure of the Mann wagons, the front axle assembly hangs off the front, and the cargo bed/rear axle frame bolts to the back of the boiler. The boiler will be copper with bronze fittings, am using the tables in Kozo's books for thicknesses of the materials. First things made will be to cut the boiler tube to length, and make the wood forming blocks for the end caps.
 :cheers:

Offline fumopuc

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Re: Chris's Mann Wagon Build
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2020, 04:48:12 PM »
Hi Chris, I am prepared for following along.
Kind Regards
Achim

Offline pgp001

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Re: Chris's Mann Wagon Build
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2020, 05:35:35 PM »
I am looking forward to watching progress on this one, having had a full size one many years ago.

Phil

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Mann Wagon Build
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2020, 05:49:51 PM »
Hi Chris, I am prepared for following along.


 :cheers:

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Mann Wagon Build
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2020, 05:53:02 PM »
I am looking forward to watching progress on this one, having had a full size one many years ago.

Phil


Hope it brings back some good memories! As I recall, the one your family had went to Australia? I found some references to a couple there, at least one went back to England again.

Offline Dave Otto

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Re: Chris's Mann Wagon Build
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2020, 06:56:23 PM »
Looking forward to another interesting build!

Dave

Offline pgp001

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Re: Chris's Mann Wagon Build
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2020, 07:19:18 PM »
I am looking forward to watching progress on this one, having had a full size one many years ago.

Phil


Hope it brings back some good memories! As I recall, the one your family had went to Australia? I found some references to a couple there, at least one went back to England again.

I am not 100% sure, but I think the one we owned ended up in the Czech republic.

Phil

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Mann Wagon Build
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2020, 09:22:26 PM »
And first swarf made! measured out and cut the copper tube for the boiler shell, smokebox shell, firetube, and the ring to hold the smokebox on. The ring will be cut through at the bottom so it can be expanded to fit over the smokebox/boiler shells. Also, dug out my super-high-tech fixtures for holding the shells on the mill for boring out the holes in the side. Yup, real high tech, blocks with semicircles cut out and threaded rod to clamp them together around the tube. The last boiler I did was a larger diameter, and I had cut out the semicircles to fit. For this one, cut some rings from wood and glued them back in, using the pipe as surfaces to clamp against while some wood glue sets....



Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Mann Wagon Build
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2020, 09:29:20 PM »
I am looking forward to watching progress on this one, having had a full size one many years ago.

Phil


Hope it brings back some good memories! As I recall, the one your family had went to Australia? I found some references to a couple there, at least one went back to England again.

I am not 100% sure, but I think the one we owned ended up in the Czech republic.

Phil
There is this listing for one that sounds like it, includes the conversion notes:
https://tractors.fandom.com/wiki/Mann_no._881
http://www.steamscenes.org.uk/engines/mann/wagon/881/pictures/
If you google Mann Steam Wagon Uncle Walt you can find more photos of it.

Offline Kim

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Re: Chris's Mann Wagon Build
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2020, 10:40:51 PM »
No point in letting any grass grow under your feet, eh Chris? :)

Looking forward to a new build!  :popcorn: :popcorn:

Kim

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Mann Wagon Build
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2020, 11:22:45 PM »
No point in letting any grass grow under your feet, eh Chris? :)

Looking forward to a new build!  :popcorn: :popcorn:

Kim
Nope, mowed the lawn a few days ago, time to build!   :Lol:

Offline cnr6400

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Re: Chris's Mann Wagon Build
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2020, 12:35:46 PM »
Like the tube jigs from the Cellulose-Lignin Tool and Die Co.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:


Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Mann Wagon Build
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2020, 03:34:51 PM »
Like the tube jigs from the Cellulose-Lignin Tool and Die Co.  :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
The 'alloy' the main blocks were sawn from is Cherry-5/4....   :Lol:

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Mann Wagon Build
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2020, 03:39:43 PM »
And here are the tube holders in use, to drill/bore the holes for first the water fill bushing:


and the 'steam dome' opening. In the Mann Overtype wagons, the engine bolts down over this opening and the inside of the engine acts as the steam dome, with the throttle valve at the top. There is a gap between the cylinders up inside the engine for the steam to rise.

There will be support rails around this opening on the inside to take the studs that hold the engine base plate down. First, I am going to drill the rest of the holes in the shell, for the bottom drain/blowdown bushing, and the frame/cab support bolt bushings. The smokebox is a separate tube that will fit onto the front of the boiler shell.

To position the tube for the different holes around the tube, there is a tick mark on one of the holders at top center, and I have marked out ticks on the end of the tube at top/bottom/sides, and at the angle down for the cab bushings. These were done by standing the tube up on an end view of the boiler plan, and just marking the tube from the paper plan.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 03:46:18 PM by crueby »

Offline crueby

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Re: Chris's Mann Wagon Build
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2020, 06:30:50 PM »
After lunch continued with the rest of the holes in the boiler shell, pairs of them on the sides for the bushings to take studs to mount to the rear frame and the cab supports:

Those bushings will be small threaded ones, with blind 5-40 holes to hold the studs on the outsides. 
Then switched over to the smokebox, boring the large hole for the smokestack:

Boiler and smokebox shells all drilled:

The connector ring was then cut through and flexed over the ends. This will get drilled/riveted in place later on.

Good progress for the day, now back out onto the porch for some read-snoozing in the rocker!