Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).

[Dave Otto]

Hi Hugh

I will try to get some pictures posted this weekend.
I like the 5C work head due to the fact that it gives you so much more versatility in sizes. The Deckel collets are much more limited in size. Just the other day I needed a 9mm transfer punch. I borrowed a 9mm collet from work, chucked up a 9mm drill blank and ground a point on it. In about 5 minutes I had my punch ready to go.

Dave

[gerritv]

Hugh, You can get part way to Robin R's mods by doing the mods in Model Engineers Workshop 282 and 283 (Jul/Aug 2019). So far I made the dovetail platform to mount a gear cutter on. I plan to this year add his version of the arm control.
A major part of Robin's addition was to extend the horizontal travel, not something I am interested in.
You will want to buy extra wheel mounts. And possibly make a few that are extended further out so that you can grind on the LH edge of the wheel, e.g. for making dovetail cutters.

Gerrit

[90LX_Notch]

Hugh-

I did buy the Shars model and overall I am happy with it.  My biggest criticism with it would be the lack of a .001 vernier scale. 

“The Tool and Die Guy” on YouTube has a very good series on operating the Deckle So.  The Deckle has a vernier scale that makes grinding an accurate radius easy.  Until I watched his series, I was not that successful in grinding a cutter with a radius.  The NEMES website has the Deckle So manual available.  It is very helpful for operating the Shars grinder.

The 5C collet head is a “home run”.  They are ubiquitous and cheap.  The attachments are a pain.

-Bob

[Dave Otto]

I agree with Bob completely, the attachments are pretty much a waste of time. I'm not sure the Deckel vernier scale reads in .001"s but  I maybe be wrong, I will have to check. Stefan Gotteswinter made new scales for his grinder and I have thought about doing that. He used to have a bunch of pictures on his web site but it appears that he has taken them down.
Bob did you purchase all the Videos from Phil? I know what he offers on YouTube is only a portion of what he has available, I have thought about purchasing the whole Deckel series that he did.

Dave

[gerritv]

I have seen many of Phil's videos, including the Deckel ones. I was rather disappointed in those, he really only shows one cutter shape.

Stefan's old site (like most others) is available via https://archive.org. Spefically a snapshot in time of the d-bit grinder: https://web.archive.org/web/20190412023939/https://gtwr.de/

I found that Stefan G. and Robin Renzetti (who is mostly on Instagram) provide the most useful 'outside the box' uses of these fine machines. The other person who does some outside the box stuff is https://www.youtube.com/c/tryally look for Sharpening a Micro Tool.

Gerrit

[Hugh Currin]

Most excellent. Thank you all for your help.

I'm not hearing many negatives on the basic Shars grinder. Maybe problems with the attachments but the base machine sounds OK. That would be a great time saver over building a Quorn. Even if it needs some TLC it'll save time. I'll likely give them a call and order one next week.

I've reviewed Prof Chaddock's book on the Quorn which gives some directions on use. Likewise the Deckel SO grinder manual. Both give pretty good instruction. I think it was S. Gotteswinter's videos that extended my thinking of the single lip cutter uses. Those seem the most useful references for me. I need to get my hands on one to see if my understanding is correct.

What extra wheels would you suggest to start? I believe the machine comes with one AL-oxide and one diamond cup wheel. With the grinder in hand do you tend towards carbide or HSS for the type work we do? I'll order a few wheels hubs from Shars and plan to make others.

Thank you for your help. I'll let you know when this new toy arrives.

[propforward]

Dammit, now I want a cutting tool grinder. 

[90LX_Notch]

Dave- I did not purchase the videos.  I just watched his YouTube Deckle series a few times.

Hugh- I haven’t purchased any additional wheels or hubs.  I mostly use the aluminum oxide wheel.  All the tools that I have ground are HSS.  I have occasionally used the diamond wheel to grind radii on carbide lathe tools.

It is a machine that sits there and doesn’t get used much, but when I need it, it is worth it’s weight in gold.

-Bob

[gerritv]

I bought my diamond wheels from AliExpress. Both cup and flat https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32847704800.html in various grits. They seem to work well on both carbide and HSS. The flat wheel is useful for grinding in tight spaces, such as between teeth on gear cutters or slitting saws.
And per Robin R's example, don't be afraid to mount 2 wheels back-back so you can grind in more positions.

I have used my Alexander 2CGD for 4 facet drill grinding, sharpening 12 tooth shop made gear cutters, various engraving cutters, lots of 6 and 8mm round hss cutters for use on lathe (in a Tyrally style tool holder). Made a round adapter with offset hole to make my own boring bars from 6 and 8mm hss.(Per Stefan's example again :-)

For drills I use a ER16 collet chuck with straight shank to reduce the number of main collets I need to buy, the ER ones have a broader gripping range. Also made a square holder insert using Harold Hall's method for 1/8 and 1/4" square HSS for use on my Taig.

Gerrit

[Hugh Currin]

Gerrit: Those AliExpress wheels are very reasonable. With those prices it's worth making a few arbors and not worrying about wearing them out. I'll wait on additional wheels, but order a few arbors, until I get the machine and try it out. Thanks.

Bob: I'm sure it'll be the same for me. But the ability to make specialty cutters at needed would be invaluable.

Stuart: Welcome to my world :-)

[gerritv]

Gerrit: Those AliExpress wheels are very reasonable. With those prices it's worth making a few arbors and not worrying about wearing them out. I'll wait on additional wheels, but order a few arbors, until I get the machine and try it out. Thanks.

I'll try to update my Alexander 2CGD thread with latest additions to keep you going :-)
I'm heading into clock making, not engines much any more. I expect to be grinding a lot of small cutting tools.

Gerrit

[Dave Otto]

Hugh as requested here are some photos of my grinder setup as it is today.


I dissembled the complete work head, cleaned and deburred everything and reassembled.
It would be nice to re-cut the dovetails and make new gib strips; maybe someday.


All the ball handles were replaced with better quality ones. Not necessary but they are much nicer to use. I set the pivot part up in the lathe and drilled/reamed a center hole. This is so you can take two pins that have been split on the ends and used them to align the tool slide to the center line of the pivot. I still need to make the two pins


The stock location allows the lamp to only be on right hand side of the work head; many times you need to have the light on the left side so you can see what you are doing. I designed and printed an adaptor so ½” Loc-Line could be used to hold the lamp housing.


Here shows how it is mounted into the housing with a custom nut.


It was designed to be a nice fit in the lamp housing.


Loc-Line makes these Fixed Mounts that make it easy to attach the Loc-Line to the belt guard of the grinder. https://www.loc-line.com/product/51895-12-fixed-mount-pack-of-2/


I designed a split camp that fits the vacuum nozzle and snaps into the Loc-Line segments.


This is the wheel removal tool I made that makes swapping wheel a breeze. Let me know if you would like any dimensions or details on this.


One really annoying thing on the grinder was the draw tube assembly. The crank handle was only located by two cap screws and a large amount of run out. With the 5C work head the draw tube screws into the internal threads of the collet. I had a number of collets that the original draw tube would not screw into the collet far enough to draw up the collet. So I made a new one
Here I have faced the crank handle and drilled/reamed a hole for an alignment pin.


A new draw tube and thrust washer were machined using a Hardinge collet for testing the thread fit.


Here is the new assembly, much nicer.


Here are what I have for wheels, there is also a diamond cup wheel that you can see installed on the grinder.


Close up of the specs on the ¼” wheel.


Close up of the specs on the 1/8” wheel.
The wheels are from Shars.


I thought I would also include this. The cabinet was a local Craigslist purchase; I really liked the vintage look of it.


Lots of nice storage space in there.


I completely disassembled the cabinet and stripped the paint, welded up the extra holes and smoothed out the dents.


It was given a coat of light gray automotive paint and wood insert added to set the grinder on.

[Don1966]

That’s some awesome improvements you made Dave. I have a Chinese version I bought from Northern Tools years ago for $600. I use the Deckel manual to do setups with, it’s a lot better then the one that comes with it. You have inspired me to make improvements to mine. ….


Don

[petertha]

Very nice Dave. I have a Chinese R8 version of what I suspect is mostly similar to the 5C. The 5C was going to be quite a bit more expensive & problematic to ship from USA at the time. I was just about to inquire with Shars if the 5C head assembly could be purchased separately. Not sure about cost / benefit or even if it would fit quite yet. I have a full set of 5C but was just about to be start considering R8 collets.

But now that I see some of your pictures, has me wondering - would it be your guess that a suitable 5C holder could be turned & swapped for the R8, or is there quite a bit more to that?
You mentioned runout issues with the original, like how much?

[Dave Otto]

Thanks Don and Petertha I appreciate the comments.

Petertha, the run out I was talking about was only how the crank handle mounted to the collet draw tube. Although I have not measured it I think the spindle run out is pretty good.
If you would like me to take any measurements or photos to help determine if the 5C work head would fit your machine let me know.

Dave