Author Topic: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).  (Read 8853 times)

Offline 90LX_Notch

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I am really considering  buying one of the clones of a Deckle single lip cutter grinder.  I am looking for honest opinions of the Chinese clones that are available. 

I can really see a need for one of these in my shop.  It would be the first brand new machine that I have ever purchased and would be a large sum of money for me to layout.  I don't expect Deckle quality; but I don't want to completely remanufacture it either.  I don't mind tweaking a few bugs.


-Bob
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Online steamer

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2020, 12:58:03 AM »
Hi Bob,

I have a Gorton 265, which is a d bit grinder....it was built oh maybe the 40's.   It's a piece of honest American Iron!....but....some of that iron went somewhere else.

I know I will need to rework the workhead.    It's worn and has some slop.   Hard steel spindle in a cast iron bore....simple as a rock, just....originally....very well done.     Boring it out, and making a sleeve that fits the spindle ...is no small task.   I've done that for the quil on my SB, and it was not the easiest job.   Ultimately, I will need to lap the hole in to make the spindle fit correctly....it seems most of the wear is there.

The spindle bearings are OK....though I think they're obsolete....but not really sure on that point.

the rest of it is pretty good!....and I have a full set of Gorton collets   ( 9N's I think)

The point is, it's a project..   Lots of old American iron that were glorious in they're day, are now worn.   I choose to rebuild it....but that's just me

Now our friends from across the way have on many circumstances been described as suppliers of machine parts kits....in need of work.  A fair assessment as far as I can tell.

It probably uses far more readily available tooling, and the parts are cheap, and making a new part shouldn't be too hard if one needs too....as the investment is low.

Now the latest sentiment aside, which if you've watched the coverage, people are not that happy with our Neighbors across the way,  it's a kit of parts that with some effort gets you a capability that you may not otherwise have in the shop, go for it....

Personally, the Gorton will be getting some love from me, much like my SB9, though I don't know if there will be any difference between the 2 units when done.....but that's just me

Dave
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Offline Dave Otto

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2020, 01:13:40 AM »
Hi  Bob

I have one that I purchased from Shars last fall, it is like the one that Robin Renzetti has. <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELTL9qTJg-o" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELTL9qTJg-o</a>
I don't plan to make all the modifications to mine that he did to his, but I have made a few.
Stefan Gotteswinter also has some videos featuring his d-bit grinder, you probably know this but if not, they are worth watching.
To see what these two guys do with these machines is quite an education.

Over all I'm pretty happy with my machine but like lots of Chinese machines there are areas that leave a little, or a lot to be desired. I haven't had much time to work on mine except to make a better Loc-Line light mount, Vacuum nozzle mount and the Renzitti tool to remove the wheels; I can post some photos if you are interested.
It is quiet and smooth  and for the most part all the adjustments all work pretty well. The dove tails on the tool head don't fit very good and could be improved on. One of the first things that I need to fix when I have some spare time is to make a new draw bar for the 5C collets, the threads on the one that came with it re pretty awful. The tool head doesn't swing a full 90 degrees so I need to set it up and lengthen the track so I can get the tool head in alignment with the spindle axis.

I hate to sound like a broken record but this machine is a good starting point and with a little tuning can be made into a good usable tool. The accessories that come with it probably won't get much use from me, I have a nice drill grinder, and I won't waste my time attempting to sharpen end mills. The lathe tool holder has some possibilities but would also need some mods to be very useful.

I looked at the machine form Grizzly but at twice the price and all the accessories were extra, I decided that the made in Taiwan wasn't worth the extra cost. Also I really wanted the 5C machine for the increased versatility from the range of available 5C collets. The Grizzly machine was if I remember only available with the Deckel style collets. Keep in mind that the 5C machine uses the internal thread for the draw bar.

If you would like to chat more about this send me a PM or we can do it here; and if you would like to see the mods that I have done so far to my machine let me know and I will take some photos.

Dave

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2020, 01:40:47 AM »
Hi  Bob

I have one that I purchased from Shars last fall, it is like the one that Robin Renzetti has. <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELTL9qTJg-o" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELTL9qTJg-o</a>
I don't plan to make all the modifications to mine that he did to his, but I have made a few.
Stefan Gotteswinter also has some videos featuring his d-bit grinder, you probably know this but if not, they are worth watching.
To see what these two guys do with these machines is quite an education.

Over all I'm pretty happy with my machine but like lots of Chinese machines there are areas that leave a little, or a lot to be desired. I haven't had much time to work on mine except to make a better Loc-Line light mount, Vacuum nozzle mount and the Renzitti tool to remove the wheels; I can post some photos if you are interested.
It is quiet and smooth  and for the most part all the adjustments all work pretty well. The dove tails on the tool head don't fit very good and could be improved on. One of the first things that I need to fix when I have some spare time is to make a new draw bar for the 5C collets, the threads on the one that came with it re pretty awful. The tool head doesn't swing a full 90 degrees so I need to set it up and lengthen the track so I can get the tool head in alignment with the spindle axis.

I hate to sound like a broken record but this machine is a good starting point and with a little tuning can be made into a good usable tool. The accessories that come with it probably won't get much use from me, I have a nice drill grinder, and I won't waste my time attempting to sharpen end mills. The lathe tool holder has some possibilities but would also need some mods to be very useful.

I looked at the machine form Grizzly but at twice the price and all the accessories were extra, I decided that the made in Taiwan wasn't worth the extra cost. Also I really wanted the 5C machine for the increased versatility from the range of available 5C collets. The Grizzly machine was if I remember only available with the Deckel style collets. Keep in mind that the 5C machine uses the internal thread for the draw bar.

If you would like to chat more about this send me a PM or we can do it here; and if you would like to see the mods that I have done so far to my machine let me know and I will take some photos.

Dave

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Offline 90LX_Notch

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2020, 02:27:38 AM »
Thanks Dave and Dave.

D.P.- I hear you.  All my machines are old U.S. iron.  I've never seen a single lip cutter around here for sale

D.O.- Thank you for your reply.  I have seen Robin and Stefen's video's amongst others.  It seems as though these machines are not too bad right out of the box for grinding single lip cutters.  The accessories seem to be a disappointment.  I'm really leaning towards getting one. 

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Offline gerritv

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2020, 02:52:50 AM »
Deckel just went bankrupt so the used prices will no doubt go up. Alexander and Kuhlman are similar brands and age. OTOH the clones sometimes offer benefits such as 5C collets. While the E355/U2 ones seem to be good quality from Aliexpress, it is yet-another-collet rack you need to fill.

I have an Alexander, I bought a 16mm collet, and a matching ER16 chuck so I can mount a larger variety of bits. I now do 4 facet grinds on drills as they dull, no extra fixture requied (See one of Stefan's videos). Luis Ally is another YT source for what a clone might look like and do for you.

To grind square lathe bits, fit either a square 5C collet or 3D print an holder to go from square to round in a 5C. With some iamgination you might not want or need the extras.

Overall I suspect they are all more than capable, this grinder style is underappreciated IMO.

Gerrit
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Offline rklopp

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2020, 04:14:22 AM »
I have a Taiwanese Victek U2 single lip machine gathering dust. It is in good shape. I have 6 fractional collets to go with. I’d let it go for $250, but I don’t want to deal with shipping, especially under COVID. I am in the SF Bay Area California.

I have a Quorn which is more useful to me.


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Offline RonGinger

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2020, 01:56:02 PM »
I  have an Alexander but only a couple collets and no source for more. I have thought about fitting some kind of ER holder. Gerrit, could you explain a bit more about how you did that please.

Offline DICKEYBIRD

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2020, 05:54:13 PM »
Robin & Stefan's videos convinced me that I had to have one so I spoiled myself & bought the Shars 5C machine about a year ago.

I had a couple snags right away but the customer service lady (Katie) was fantastic.  On the initial order I had specified that a forklift was available at my workplace for offloading.  After delivery, my employer received a $75.00 "liftgate" surcharge and promptly took it out of my check.  FedEx denied my claim after some email "tennis" so I then emailed Shars cust service to report that issue plus the wheel hub retaining screw had been WAY over-torqued on my machine at the factory.  The hub taper was seized so tightly that I finally had to carefully slice almost through it with an abrasive cut-off wheel to get it off.  She immediately sent me another wheel hub (n/c) and took over with the FedEx problem.  A week or so later, my employer received a reimbursement check.

I removed the original lamp bulb with its wimpy 24v PS & changed it to a much brighter 110v LED bulb that fit the original fixture (old eyeballs).  I also added a 3/4" Loc-Line to position a custom vacuum hose nozzle.

I've since purchased a 5C to ER16 collet chuck holder for it, a couple different types of diamond and CBN wheels along with extra wheel hubs so the wheels could be mounted & balanced permanently.  The Shars hubs are cheap and are well built.  It's a great little machine IMO!  My only issue is that I have only had the time to use it 4 or 5 times.  :-[
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Offline 90LX_Notch

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2020, 10:46:14 PM »
Thank you for the replies gentlemen.  Each of your inputs are helpful. rklopp, if you weren't 3000 miles away....

-Bob
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Offline gerritv

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2020, 12:35:41 AM »
I  have an Alexander but only a couple collets and no source for more. I have thought about fitting some kind of ER holder. Gerrit, could you explain a bit more about how you did that please.
Hi Ron, I added some posts to my original Alexander 2CGD thread. Are your collets the smaller diameter ones? One option might be to make a collet, with the ER16 chuck as part of it.

http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,9053.msg219251.html#msg219251

Gerrit
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Offline DICKEYBIRD

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2020, 06:39:50 PM »
I remembered something this morning:  A table-top BBQ grille cover makes a great cover when the machine is not being used.  I got 2 of these from Amazon (got an extra for my Darex tap grinder).  Mine were a couple bux cheaper so a more thorough search may save you a dollar or two. :)  They fit great! https://www.amazon.com/Brinkmann-812-1100-S-Discontinued-Manufacturer-65234R3FA328979/dp/B01MA0DWVA/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=brinkman+tabletop+grill+cover&qid=1589131778&sr=8-4
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Offline Apprentice707

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2020, 10:36:14 AM »
I have a Chinese made cutter grinder I bought from Warco (UK) some years back. I use it for grinding lathe tools (HSS) and occasionally buck up the courage to set it up to sharpen end mills. It is not an easy machine to master and I feel it is not value for money given the difficulty I encounter in setting it up. The manuals that are available are poor translations of the Chinese. I am lucky in so much as my wife is a Malaysian Chinese and is able to read and write the language. Technical Chinese is not easy to translate and her eyes glaze over as she isn't familiar with the present Chinese writing system.

It is a shame that the Chinese didn't put as much effort into producing a Clarkson or Quorn tool grinder look alike, it would have been easier to use.

Good luck to all users of a similar machine.


Offline gerritv

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2020, 12:01:34 PM »
You can easliy find the Deckel S0 and Alexander manuals. They are substantially better in quality and presentation of information.
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Offline Hugh Currin

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2022, 12:31:04 AM »
Old post but still relevant. I'm on the verge of ordering a Shars "single lip cutter". Has anyone received one since the thread started? Reviews? Do you like the 5C collet system for this?

Dave: I'd sure like to see the mods you've done to yours. I think the mods Robin Renzetti did are amazing. However, I don't have the time, nor patience and skill, to pull that off. But a few of the ideas look quite doable.

I've been working on a Quorn/Bonelle/Deckel design off and on for some time. The Bonelle is a bar stock version of the Quorn with many bells and whistles added. I like the "simplicity" of the Quorn so have simplified the Bonelle. Also am adding a Deckel style (dove tails) work holder. The Quorn / Bonelle look to be hard to adjust for cutting a radiuses on a tool corner. I'll probably finish this design, but may not build it.

I've decided it would be best to buy a Chinese single lip cutter. Buying one seems advantageous because I can use it instead of make it a multi year project. The Shars version is available and has OK reviews.

Thank you for any insight or further help.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2022, 12:40:20 AM by Hugh Currin »
Hugh

Offline Dave Otto

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2022, 01:12:26 AM »
Hi Hugh

I will try to get some pictures posted this weekend.
I like the 5C work head due to the fact that it gives you so much more versatility in sizes. The Deckel collets are much more limited in size. Just the other day I needed a 9mm transfer punch. I borrowed a 9mm collet from work, chucked up a 9mm drill blank and ground a point on it. In about 5 minutes I had my punch ready to go.

Dave

Offline gerritv

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2022, 01:29:48 AM »
Hugh, You can get part way to Robin R's mods by doing the mods in Model Engineers Workshop 282 and 283 (Jul/Aug 2019). So far I made the dovetail platform to mount a gear cutter on. I plan to this year add his version of the arm control.
A major part of Robin's addition was to extend the horizontal travel, not something I am interested in.
You will want to buy extra wheel mounts. And possibly make a few that are extended further out so that you can grind on the LH edge of the wheel, e.g. for making dovetail cutters.

Gerrit
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Offline 90LX_Notch

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2022, 11:17:43 PM »
Hugh-

I did buy the Shars model and overall I am happy with it.  My biggest criticism with it would be the lack of a .001 vernier scale. 

“The Tool and Die Guy” on YouTube has a very good series on operating the Deckle So.  The Deckle has a vernier scale that makes grinding an accurate radius easy.  Until I watched his series, I was not that successful in grinding a cutter with a radius.  The NEMES website has the Deckle So manual available.  It is very helpful for operating the Shars grinder.

The 5C collet head is a “home run”.  They are ubiquitous and cheap.  The attachments are a pain.

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Offline Dave Otto

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2022, 01:26:48 AM »
I agree with Bob completely, the attachments are pretty much a waste of time. I'm not sure the Deckel vernier scale reads in .001"s but  I maybe be wrong, I will have to check. Stefan Gotteswinter made new scales for his grinder and I have thought about doing that. He used to have a bunch of pictures on his web site but it appears that he has taken them down.
Bob did you purchase all the Videos from Phil? I know what he offers on YouTube is only a portion of what he has available, I have thought about purchasing the whole Deckel series that he did.

Dave

Offline gerritv

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2022, 01:51:57 AM »
I have seen many of Phil's videos, including the Deckel ones. I was rather disappointed in those, he really only shows one cutter shape.

Stefan's old site (like most others) is available via https://archive.org. Spefically a snapshot in time of the d-bit grinder: https://web.archive.org/web/20190412023939/https://gtwr.de/

I found that Stefan G. and Robin Renzetti (who is mostly on Instagram) provide the most useful 'outside the box' uses of these fine machines. The other person who does some outside the box stuff is https://www.youtube.com/c/tryally look for Sharpening a Micro Tool.

Gerrit
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Offline Hugh Currin

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2022, 12:20:50 AM »
Most excellent. Thank you all for your help.

I'm not hearing many negatives on the basic Shars grinder. Maybe problems with the attachments but the base machine sounds OK. That would be a great time saver over building a Quorn. Even if it needs some TLC it'll save time. I'll likely give them a call and order one next week.

I've reviewed Prof Chaddock's book on the Quorn which gives some directions on use. Likewise the Deckel SO grinder manual. Both give pretty good instruction. I think it was S. Gotteswinter's videos that extended my thinking of the single lip cutter uses. Those seem the most useful references for me. I need to get my hands on one to see if my understanding is correct.

What extra wheels would you suggest to start? I believe the machine comes with one AL-oxide and one diamond cup wheel. With the grinder in hand do you tend towards carbide or HSS for the type work we do? I'll order a few wheels hubs from Shars and plan to make others.

Thank you for your help. I'll let you know when this new toy arrives.
Hugh

Offline propforward

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2022, 12:47:49 AM »
Dammit, now I want a cutting tool grinder.  :facepalm2:
Stuart

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Offline 90LX_Notch

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2022, 01:52:59 AM »
Dave- I did not purchase the videos.  I just watched his YouTube Deckle series a few times.

Hugh- I haven’t purchased any additional wheels or hubs.  I mostly use the aluminum oxide wheel.  All the tools that I have ground are HSS.  I have occasionally used the diamond wheel to grind radii on carbide lathe tools.

It is a machine that sits there and doesn’t get used much, but when I need it, it is worth it’s weight in gold.

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Offline gerritv

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2022, 01:59:29 AM »
I bought my diamond wheels from AliExpress. Both cup and flat https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32847704800.html in various grits. They seem to work well on both carbide and HSS. The flat wheel is useful for grinding in tight spaces, such as between teeth on gear cutters or slitting saws.
And per Robin R's example, don't be afraid to mount 2 wheels back-back so you can grind in more positions.

I have used my Alexander 2CGD for 4 facet drill grinding, sharpening 12 tooth shop made gear cutters, various engraving cutters, lots of 6 and 8mm round hss cutters for use on lathe (in a Tyrally style tool holder). Made a round adapter with offset hole to make my own boring bars from 6 and 8mm hss.(Per Stefan's example again :-)

For drills I use a ER16 collet chuck with straight shank to reduce the number of main collets I need to buy, the ER ones have a broader gripping range. Also made a square holder insert using Harold Hall's method for 1/8 and 1/4" square HSS for use on my Taig.

Gerrit
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Offline Hugh Currin

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2022, 03:04:25 AM »
Gerrit: Those AliExpress wheels are very reasonable. With those prices it's worth making a few arbors and not worrying about wearing them out. I'll wait on additional wheels, but order a few arbors, until I get the machine and try it out. Thanks.

Bob: I'm sure it'll be the same for me. But the ability to make specialty cutters at needed would be invaluable.

Stuart: Welcome to my world :-)
Hugh

Offline gerritv

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2022, 03:23:24 AM »
Gerrit: Those AliExpress wheels are very reasonable. With those prices it's worth making a few arbors and not worrying about wearing them out. I'll wait on additional wheels, but order a few arbors, until I get the machine and try it out. Thanks.

I'll try to update my Alexander 2CGD thread with latest additions to keep you going :-)
I'm heading into clock making, not engines much any more. I expect to be grinding a lot of small cutting tools.

Gerrit
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Offline Dave Otto

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2022, 08:30:11 PM »
Hugh as requested here are some photos of my grinder setup as it is today.


I dissembled the complete work head, cleaned and deburred everything and reassembled.
It would be nice to re-cut the dovetails and make new gib strips; maybe someday.


All the ball handles were replaced with better quality ones. Not necessary but they are much nicer to use. I set the pivot part up in the lathe and drilled/reamed a center hole. This is so you can take two pins that have been split on the ends and used them to align the tool slide to the center line of the pivot. I still need to make the two pins


The stock location allows the lamp to only be on right hand side of the work head; many times you need to have the light on the left side so you can see what you are doing. I designed and printed an adaptor so ½” Loc-Line could be used to hold the lamp housing.


Here shows how it is mounted into the housing with a custom nut.


It was designed to be a nice fit in the lamp housing.


Loc-Line makes these Fixed Mounts that make it easy to attach the Loc-Line to the belt guard of the grinder. https://www.loc-line.com/product/51895-12-fixed-mount-pack-of-2/


I designed a split camp that fits the vacuum nozzle and snaps into the Loc-Line segments.


This is the wheel removal tool I made that makes swapping wheel a breeze. Let me know if you would like any dimensions or details on this.


One really annoying thing on the grinder was the draw tube assembly. The crank handle was only located by two cap screws and a large amount of run out. With the 5C work head the draw tube screws into the internal threads of the collet. I had a number of collets that the original draw tube would not screw into the collet far enough to draw up the collet. So I made a new one
Here I have faced the crank handle and drilled/reamed a hole for an alignment pin.


A new draw tube and thrust washer were machined using a Hardinge collet for testing the thread fit.


Here is the new assembly, much nicer.


Here are what I have for wheels, there is also a diamond cup wheel that you can see installed on the grinder.


Close up of the specs on the ¼” wheel.


Close up of the specs on the 1/8” wheel.
The wheels are from Shars.


I thought I would also include this. The cabinet was a local Craigslist purchase; I really liked the vintage look of it.


Lots of nice storage space in there.


I completely disassembled the cabinet and stripped the paint, welded up the extra holes and smoothed out the dents.


It was given a coat of light gray automotive paint and wood insert added to set the grinder on.


Offline Don1966

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2022, 10:25:16 PM »
That’s some awesome improvements you made Dave. I have a Chinese version I bought from Northern Tools years ago for $600. I use the Deckel manual to do setups with, it’s a lot better then the one that comes with it. You have inspired me to make improvements to mine. …. :ThumbsUp:


Don

Offline petertha

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2022, 12:12:21 AM »
Very nice Dave. I have a Chinese R8 version of what I suspect is mostly similar to the 5C. The 5C was going to be quite a bit more expensive & problematic to ship from USA at the time. I was just about to inquire with Shars if the 5C head assembly could be purchased separately. Not sure about cost / benefit or even if it would fit quite yet. I have a full set of 5C but was just about to be start considering R8 collets.

But now that I see some of your pictures, has me wondering - would it be your guess that a suitable 5C holder could be turned & swapped for the R8, or is there quite a bit more to that?
You mentioned runout issues with the original, like how much?

Offline Dave Otto

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2022, 01:25:10 AM »
Thanks Don and Petertha I appreciate the comments.

Petertha, the run out I was talking about was only how the crank handle mounted to the collet draw tube. Although I have not measured it I think the spindle run out is pretty good.
If you would like me to take any measurements or photos to help determine if the 5C work head would fit your machine let me know.

Dave

Offline Hugh Currin

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #30 on: February 07, 2022, 04:24:21 AM »
Dave:

Thanks for the info and pictures. I did wonder about the lack of a central bore for centering a radius. I don't see one on the Shars pictures and I'd tentatively decided to add that bore for a split locating bar. I see you came to the same conclusion.

Thanks for the specs on the wheels also. Do you use the diamond wheels for HSS?

I'm sure I'll have more questions later.

Thanks.
Hugh

Offline Dave Otto

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #31 on: February 07, 2022, 02:47:54 PM »

 Do you use the diamond wheels for HSS?


The High Speed that I have ground I used the Aluminum oxide wheel that came with the grinder. I would like to get a CBN wheel for use on high speed tools

Dave

Offline Hugh Currin

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2022, 02:25:07 AM »
Dave:

Thanks. I understand you shouldn't use a diamond wheel on steel, and you need a diamond wheel for carbide. But I've read accounts that question this flat rule. Probably best to stick to the rules though.

I've also read good reports in using CBN wheels for steel. They seem to be expensive though.

I have a mix of carbide and HSS tools. With my machines and timidness I don't take advantage of the carbide. Though carbide tends to hold and edge longer, but chips easier. (this could just be my errant impression though) It will be a real advantage to make known sharp tools and keep them that way. Probably mostly for lathe tooling, boring bars, etc.

Thanks again for your help.
Hugh

Offline Dave Otto

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2022, 04:50:44 PM »
Hi Hugh

I think that you could get away with using your diamond wheel for light duty grinding. My understanding is that the diamond has an affinity for carbon and at the high speeds and temperature of grinding, the carbon in the steel will load up the diamond wheel. My buddy has a hand me down diamond wheel from a local tool grinding company that he has mounted to a cheap 6" bench grinder. He has been freehand grinding HSS lathe tools on it for years.

I have attached a drawing for the wheel tool that I made for my Shars grinder.

Dave

Offline gerritv

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2022, 05:58:45 PM »
As a data point, I grind HSS almost exclusively, using the Asian inexpensive diamond wheels. In 3 years I have not had to replace one yet, except to get a sharp corner back on one wheel. Even if/when they do load up, at the price it is worth it. I am firmly in the "don't spend more than you have to" camp.

Gerrit
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Offline Hugh Currin

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Re: Anyone have a Chinese cutter grinder (D-Bit Deckle clone).
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2022, 06:16:07 PM »
Thanks.

I've seen youtube vids (the preeminent authority on everything) showing truing a diamond wheel using a steel bar. I had the impression it removed the bonding between the diamond grit. From Gerrit's experience it sounds like diamond works well for HSS though. Well, at least for the amount of use seen in the hobby shop.

I did order one from Shars. It should have been here Monday but it seems the weather between IL and AZ has thrown the schedule off. The cost was similar but shipping was more than I'd seen noted on other posts. I ordered 4 wheel hubs along with it. I also ordered a "saucer" CBN wheel, along with the diamond and aluminum oxide that comes with it. I suspect I'll continue using HSS mainly. Looking forward to getting my hands on it.

Thanks.
Hugh

 

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