15cc Seal Help

[gadabout]

Mike,
yes I have seen Mickelko's Seal, very nice indeed!
You can still get on and make other bits like the crank and rods, valves etc etc!!
Mark

[nj111]

Mark,

I feel like taking a block of 6082 and carving it all out of the solid.

Mike, Knowing the way you work I have a feeling you may be frustrated by castings, because it's unlikely they will correspond exactly to the drawings.  You may need to amend your drawings to suit the castings.  I went through this with Westbury Kiwi castings, - I had purchased them from the original supplier (Woking Precision back in the mid 70's).  In all honesty they were not very accurate at all. - perhaps they are much better these days - In the end I made my own patterns and recast the crankcases and processed them on my little CNC mill - about 16 yrs ago. (I am a very slow builder!)  It will be interesting to see how you get on.  Nick

[Vixen]

Hello Nick,

OK, Thanks for cheering me up. 

We will have to see what turns up and what I can make of them. I doubt I would make different patterns, like you did. If there is a problem I will go straight to a billet of 6082.

Mid 70's?? Was that when Woking Precision were based in South Queensferry, near Edinburgh, Scotland? Their shop was only about 200 yards from where I was living at the time. I fell in love with the Seal engine back then, and promised myself that one day....I did not have any machinery or spare time then, so the purchase of the castings had to wait for nearly 50 years. Hope they have improved with time.

Mike

[gadabout]

Mike,
 Sadly I think you will be disappointed with the Seal castings when you finally get your hands on them if they are from the same patterns as mine. I think the pattern maker got his shrinkage allowance wrong!! have you seen the casting made by a fellow in china? its on the HMEM pages, he has done a really nice job of it .
Mark

[Jasonb]

Can't really blame the pattern maker I expect he got confused by the drawing dimension of 3 9/8" length of the crankcase 
Edit, this could actually explain the block being 1/4" too long as that is the difference between the drawings 3 9/8" and the articles 3 7/8"

Mike I said in the carrier thread making from scratch would probably be easier and allow you to put things like engine mounts where they suit your installation, could even have saved yourself the need to draw it as someone has been there before and made them available to download.

Yes the one on HMEM looks good, look for "cast inline 4 engine block"

[Vixen]

 Nick, Mark, Jason,

Thanks for helping to cheer me even further 

It was only the thought of pocketing out the water jacket that made me think about going the casting route. I will wait the remaining couple of weeks and see what  the cored pockets look like before deciding. If they are as poor as you all suggest, then Kirk will be getting them back for a refund.

Mike

[Vixen]

Can't really blame the pattern maker I expect he got confused by the drawing dimension of 3 9/8" length of the crankcase 
Edit, this could actually explain the block being 1/4" too long as that is the difference between the drawings 3 9/8" and the articles 3 7/8"

The Westbury article in ME March 1947 gives the dimension in question as 3 7/8". The MAP drawing actually shows it as 2 9/8" not 3 9/8". I think the MAP draftsman was taking the wee wee. But it all adds to the confusion and may be the source of the pattern problems. If he got the core correct then I will be happy.

Mike

[gadabout]

Mike,
 Don't get me wrong the castings are useable, I managed to make mine ok and get it running! Machining out an adequate water cooling space would be the issue when carved from a billet but there would be no one more capable than you to do it!! I am waiting for you to get the castings as I am looking forward to the build!
Mark

[Vixen]

No problems Mark.

If we can survive this 'car owners virus', I'm sure we can survive an oversize casting.   

Mike

[gadabout]

Mike,
 So that would be "casting over sizus virus??" 
Mark

[Art K]

I was going to throw something smart about Corona drinking virus but remembered seeing something about Corona offering $15million to change the virus name to Bud Light virus.
Art

[Jasonb]

Would have thought that a 5/8" dia woodruff cutter or small single point tool could be lowered into the 0.688" liner hole and the CNC could hollow out for the water jacket, even if just a simple round jacket they would link together so water could flow.

J

PS I originally type 2 9/8" but then went back to edit it to 3 9/8" as I did not think it could be that far out and I had red it wrong

[Jo]

I was going to throw something smart about Corona drinking virus but remembered seeing something about Corona offering $15million to change the virus name to Bud Light virus.
Art

 

[Jasonb]

Just tried out the woodruff cut waterjackets on that downloaded drawing. Possible to get a 3mm wide jacket all around the liner and as they join in the middle you should get better flow around the liners rather than the "open box" of the casting which could see the water take the easy route straight down each side

When it comes to engine mounts they would probably be simpler done my tapping the side of the crankcase and just using L shaped brackets or the sump could be made with lugs for mounting. Also ass some ore fins to the surfaces if you wanted as I imagine cooling stuck down in the carrier won't be ideal.

[Vixen]

Hello Jason,

That's exactly how I would tackle the water jacket if I decide to machine from solid.

I used the same Woodruff cutter technique on the Mercury's propeller hub. It would be easier to handle the chip clearance on the Seal as there is a through hole and also space in the adjacent cylinders



I will wait and see what Kirk delivers before I decide which way to go. I have not played 'find the part in a casting' before, It could be interesting.

Mike