Author Topic: Workshop heating  (Read 8096 times)

Offline dieselpilot

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Re: Workshop heating
« Reply #45 on: December 30, 2020, 08:03:26 PM »
Is kerosene available? Seems like an easy answer. Automotive supply should have antigel additive for diesel. If the pump well and truly fails, I'd bite the bullet and buy what Webasto or Eberspacher are using.

Offline Pete49

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Re: Workshop heating
« Reply #46 on: December 31, 2020, 02:25:09 AM »
easiest way would be to move to Australia though not the cheapest......Oh wait then cooling might be a problem  :lolb:
I used to have a friend.....but the rope broke and he ran away :(....Good news everybody I have another friend...I used chain this time :)

Offline fumopuc

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Re: Workshop heating
« Reply #47 on: December 31, 2020, 06:47:30 AM »
Hi Mike,
it will not help to keep your shop warm, but may be my anecdote let you smile a bit.
It is more than 25 years ago, when I have had the pleasure to drive a service truck during one of the famous dessert rallies in Egypt.
That was in autumn. Close to Christmas the truck arrived by ferry back in Genoa, Italy.
I went down by train to bring it back to Cologne Germany.
When passing the Alps during night time suddenly the engine stalled.
It took me not long to recognize, that the diesel in all 3 fuel cells does have the consistency  of pudding and not of a fluid.
Diesel in Egypt was very, very cheap and we have filled up all 3 fuel cells with this stuff.
The only thing, nobody has had in mind that there is no reason to use any kind of winter diesel in Egypt.
The end of the story, it took me nearly a day to organize help, to pump down the stuff from one fuel cell, refill it with some proper winter diesel to get to the next fuel station in the middle of the mountains.
One week later, when I have visited my parents for Christmas, my mother could still smell the odour of diesel surrounding me.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2020, 07:03:36 AM by fumopuc »
Kind Regards
Achim

Offline Laurentic

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Re: Workshop heating
« Reply #48 on: December 31, 2020, 11:24:56 AM »
Mike - back in the not too distant past when I had a boat I had a 5kw Mikuni warm air heater installed on board.  It took 4 amps at 12v dc to start but less to run.  It ran off the red diesel I used to buy at yacht bunkering stations to run the main (and only!) engine.  It was a God-send in the depths of winter when I went down to work on the boat, even staying overnight - freezing outside but with the heater on nice and toasty in the boat, brilliant! 

In all the several years I had the boat I never had a problem with the fuel pump, summer or winter, even though it was running on whatever diesel I had bought in the summer months.  I think you have correctly identified your problem, and probably have found the solution for you at present, but as someone else has suggested here, if all else fails it may be worth biting the bullet, going to Mikuni, Eberspacher or Webasto, whoever has the cheapest pump, and getting what they are using.

Chris

Offline Vixen

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Re: Workshop heating
« Reply #49 on: December 31, 2020, 12:12:36 PM »
easiest way would be to move to Australia though not the cheapest......Oh wait then cooling might be a problem  :lolb:

Ha ha, moving to Oz sounds like a good idea. I could bring my heater with me as it prefers to work in warmer conditions. :ROFL:

Quote

The end of the story, it took me nearly a day to organize help, to pump down the stuff from one fuel cell, refill it with some proper winter diesel to get to the next fuel station in the middle of the mountains.
One week later, when I have visited my parents for Christmas, my mother could still smell the odour of diesel surrounding me.

Achim, Ha ah, So how did you find a way of loosing a tank full of dodgy Egyptian diesel in the middle of the Swiss Alps in mid winter? :stir:
It's because of the smell that I have my fuel tank mounted outside the workshop.

Chris, I am lead to understand that domestic heating oil and red marine diesel are all treated for use in 'cold'conditions and do not suffer from gelling. I would like the opportunity to try either fuel as it is about half the price of auto diesel.

Stay in and stay safe

Mike
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Sometimes, it can be a long and winding road

Offline tghs

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Re: Workshop heating
« Reply #50 on: December 31, 2020, 12:54:12 PM »
in the early 80s when small diesels started being sold in the US (VW rabbits and the like) living in mid north Wisconsin (think Green Bay and the frozen tundra) I friend of mine ran an import car repair,, the first hard cold spell every winter was a bonus for him, they would line up the gelled cars that were towed in , the shop had doors on each end of the building. Kind of an assembly line operation, froze car in one door ,a couple of portable heaters to speed things up,, warmed car with fuel treated or changed out the other door..
what the @#&% over

Offline Craig DeShong

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Re: Workshop heating
« Reply #51 on: December 31, 2020, 10:46:17 PM »
I’m a late entry to this discussion but....

WD40 is a great cleaner, I use it all the time after the tools get grimy and dirty.  It really strips the grease and oil away.  It is not a good metal protector.  My shop is unheated and un insulated.  When I first got my equipment I too tried wd40.  On humid days I could watch the rust form on wd40 coated surfaces.

I now wipe my lathe, mill, and tools down with a light, and I mean a light coating of way oil.  On a day that starts out damp and then quickly heats my tools in the shop sweat, the moisture drips off them.  The way oil seems to protect.  Hard to believe but it works.

Just me two cents.
Craig
The destination motivates us toward excellence, the journey entertains us, and along the way we meet so many interesting people.

Offline Muzzer

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Re: Workshop heating
« Reply #52 on: January 01, 2021, 12:19:24 PM »
The exhaust pipe in the photos seems to discharge into the living space. Isn't there a risk of carbon monoxide poisoning? At the very least, a decent CO alarm would seem sensible, particularly given the provenance of the product.

There's little difference between these fuel fired heaters and any other fossil fuel powered heater in terms of their ability to use up oxygen and thus cause partial combustion. I believe you'd be prosecuted if you installed something like this as a professional. Perhaps I've missed something and I don't mean to cause offence but it may be something you've overlooked and should take into consideration.

At least you are using relatively clean fuel here. I shudder when I hear of people using used engine oil. After a life in an engine, used engine oil has lots of nasty byproducts dissolved in it, most of which you really don't want to be near, least of all breathing (or causing your neighbours to breath).

Cooking oil is relatively clean, sort of renewable and also cheaper than most diesel. You may recall that some people have been observed tipping it into their fuel tanks.

Offline Vixen

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Re: Workshop heating
« Reply #53 on: January 01, 2021, 12:59:48 PM »
The exhaust pipe in the photos seems to discharge into the living space. Isn't there a risk of carbon monoxide poisoning? At the very least, a decent CO alarm would seem sensible, particularly given the provenance of the product.

There's little difference between these fuel fired heaters and any other fossil fuel powered heater in terms of their ability to use up oxygen and thus cause partial combustion. I believe you'd be prosecuted if you installed something like this as a professional. Perhaps I've missed something and I don't mean to cause offence but it may be something you've overlooked and should take into consideration.

Dear Muzzer,

Thank you for your warnings.

Perhaps you have jumped to your conclusions too quickly without actually knowing the real details of the installation.

If the exhaust pipe did discharge within the building there would be a significant risk of carbon monoxide poisoning

Not shown in the photos is the balanced flue arrangement which discharges the exhaust gasses outside the building, into the open air and allows in clean fresh air.

Stay safe, I certainly will

Mike
« Last Edit: January 01, 2021, 03:03:19 PM by Vixen »
It is the journey that matters, not the destination

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Offline tghs

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Re: Workshop heating
« Reply #54 on: January 01, 2021, 03:22:02 PM »
hope your fuel mods are working.. early on in my life(back 50 years) my parents fuel oil tank started leaking (tank in basement, Wisconsin) the plan was to convert to that new fangled gas,, the conversion would take a while (months) and it was the middle of wisconsin winter -20f not uncommon,, to keep things warm temp oil tanks were set up in the back yard(55gal drums) and an oil line was feed to the furnace,, the line outside the house was wrapped with a thermostatic heat tape (the type used to stop pipes from freezing) it all worked and in spring when the gas line could be dug the new furnace was installed,, the basement space we gained was amazing, no more oil tank, and the new furnace was 1/4 the size of the green monster as I remember it!!
what the @#&% over

Offline Muzzer

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Re: Workshop heating
« Reply #55 on: January 01, 2021, 03:29:44 PM »
No problem, Vixen, better safe than sorry. It looked to me as if the small flexy pipe just came to a stop. From my knowledge of these things on vehicles, it looked as if that was the exhaust outlet. Did you make a hole in the wall or was there a (balanced flue) extension beyond it?

Offline Vixen

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Re: Workshop heating
« Reply #56 on: January 01, 2021, 04:04:50 PM »
Hi Murrey,

I needed to buy a special extra long diamond core drill to put the hole through the brickwork for the balanced flue.

If anyone wants to borrow the diamond core drill to do a similar installation, they only have to ask.

Your warnings may serve to prevent others carbon monoxide poisoning themselves

Stay safe

Mike
It is the journey that matters, not the destination

Sometimes, it can be a long and winding road

Offline Vixen

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Re: Workshop heating
« Reply #57 on: January 01, 2021, 04:27:58 PM »
......... it was the middle of wisconsin winter -20f not uncommon, .................... and in spring when the gas line could be dug the new furnace was installed.


Jeez,   I would not want to live anywhere where you needed to wait until the spring thaw to be able to dig a trench in the ground.

Mike
It is the journey that matters, not the destination

Sometimes, it can be a long and winding road

Offline propforward

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Re: Workshop heating
« Reply #58 on: January 01, 2021, 04:56:37 PM »
......... it was the middle of wisconsin winter -20f not uncommon, .................... and in spring when the gas line could be dug the new furnace was installed.


Jeez,   I would not want to live anywhere where you needed to wait until the spring thaw to be able to dig a trench in the ground.

Mike

Just par for the course around here, just something you learn to deal with. It is why my shop is heavily insulated - with damp proof membranes - and heated. It makes getting through winter much easier, and as a result all my tools are rust free and clean the whole time. I am very fortunate - even though this is of my own making - to have such facilities.

We've already had temperatures of -20°C overnight. And the big freeze is coming - mid to late Jan is coldest.

Brrr. Still, means I'm not feeling guilty about needing to get outside.

In spring though, once the salt and grit are off the roads, I'll be itching to get the sidecar rig out and blow the cobwebs away.
Stuart

Forging ahead regardless.

Offline Amblejo1

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Re: Workshop heating
« Reply #59 on: January 02, 2021, 02:39:58 PM »
I haven't read all the posts in the thread, so some of this may have been said already.
Moisture is the enemy - reduce the moisture in the air and you reduce the rust, so a dehumidifier could work for you provided you empty the collector regularly.
The ally of moisture is temperature variation - metal gets cold at night, then when the temperature rises in the day its temperature rise lags behind the air and condensation forms. Anything you can do to reduce the temperature variation will help. Even if you can only insulate some of the walls and ceiling it will help - heat loss is a function of temp difference and area - reduce the area and you reduce the losses. Putting in some heat will help - one of my spaces is block built - the ceiling is insulated with 1" expanded polystryene with 100mm rockwool above. The walls I have yet to work on. I have a small 1KW night storage heater in there taking advantage of the dual rate meter we inherited with the property. I only have the heater on for 2 to 3 hours each night but the slow release of heat from the thermal blocks lasts until the following evening, and I do not have a rust problem in there.

 

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