Author Topic: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version  (Read 42566 times)

Offline fumopuc

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Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
« Reply #570 on: October 12, 2021, 12:25:37 PM »
Hi Craig, thank you, glad to know you are with it.

Metric gears are ready for a sample assembly now and the real thing has shown it as expected.
The bracket was no problem, but the rocker and the gear do have a collision.
This was easily solved at the lathe.
Next another  sample assembly with some slip gauges as spacers.
And these tiny holes for the grab screws to suit.
The final position for the grove, needed for the grub screws of the big bevel gear will be defined later, with a hopefully final assembly.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2021, 02:07:30 PM by fumopuc »
Kind Regards
Achim

Offline fumopuc

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Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
« Reply #571 on: October 13, 2021, 06:38:46 AM »
Hi everybody, here is the point, no room for excuses anymore, I have to attack the hopefully final assembly now.

Everything should come together at the cylinder heads and valve train now.


First idea was to do a basic adjustment of the valve clearance of each cylinder head.
So the later one may is only a minor job than.
The valve train is still assembled at the fixture plate, so I used  my set up part, cylinder head #0  for this job.


The further scheduled strategy for head assembly is:
Alignment of the 4 cylinder heads to each other at the engine with the help of the intake manifold.
Than to bolt the heads down to the engine at each cylinder with the final torque.
If this is done one time, marking the manifold and do the powder coating of it.
Some blackening of the steel washers.


A boo boo at the powder coating.
What could be seen there is the result of a lazy guy, he did not take care about a proper cleaning of the part.
Specially the holes and bores do need some extra attention, otherwise some reaming oil or grease will start floating out  of the holes and will creep under the fresh powder in the heat of 180░C.
Two options, to try the different solutions, shown in the net, to get ride of it for a new coating or to leave it like it is and it will be a very special note of this build.
The last one is my favorite.


     
Kind Regards
Achim

Offline Kim

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Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
« Reply #572 on: October 13, 2021, 03:33:04 PM »
Looking good Achim!
Sorry about the powder coating mishap.  You'll have to give that guy a firm talking to!  But it isn't so bad.  I'm betting it won't be noticeable on the final assembly anyway.

Can't wait to see it all come together now!

Kim

Offline fumopuc

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Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
« Reply #573 on: October 15, 2021, 07:52:18 AM »
Kim thanks for watching.
As you said already, at the end it will hidden in the overall picture.


I am reporting here about all the action, already done in May and June this year.
Now I have seen I forgot to show a video, which was made with metric gears and the set up cylinder #0.

Kind Regards
Achim

Offline Roger B

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Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
« Reply #574 on: October 15, 2021, 11:05:46 AM »
Good progress and some good solutions to problems  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:  :wine1: Not long until the valve gear is assembled  :)  :)
Best regards

Roger

Offline fumopuc

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Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
« Reply #575 on: October 16, 2021, 08:20:58 AM »
Thanks Roger.




Hopefully final assembly of the intake manifold and cylinder heads.
The carb does not look like an alien there anymore, may be a reason to leave it uncoated.
Cylinder heads are in line now, adjusted by the intake manifold.
All cylinder heads bolted down with there final black nuts and 1 Nm of torque.
Now up to the other side, exhaust manifold, the tricky one with coolant in it.
First attempt to bolt in on directly followed by the next boo boo.
My Chinese ground down socket collapsed at the third M2 nut alerady.
I have been sure, that this will be my not my last attempt to assemble so something has to be changed.
First of all a Wera socket, same good quality as the well known Wiha tools, was ordered.
The manifold has find its way to the conventional mill again and some space for the socket was made.
Now I have been ready for some leakage testing, because this exhaust manifold is also the coolant outlet of the engine.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2021, 11:12:13 AM by fumopuc »
Kind Regards
Achim

Offline fumopuc

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Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
« Reply #576 on: October 18, 2021, 08:11:58 AM »
Water inlet, cylinder and cylinder heads are all checked for leakage so far.
Single components and the assemblies also.



Now the last tricky part has to be assembled too, the exhaust manifold with the integrated water outlet.
The heads are aligned by the intake manifold so we will see how correct the alignment is at the other side for the exhaust manifold.


But first pressurizing attracted  my attentions  to another failure.
Air was coming out of one threaded hole for side cover fixation.
A to late check of the CAD date has shown the reason.
I did know for sure, that I have turned the hole pattern a bit to avoid this not desired leakage, but it seems I did not do a proper check.
A very small piece of paper at the lower end of the M2 hole and some epoxy glue, curing over night, should have solved this problem.
The day after this leakage was gone and I could concentrate to the others.


As already suspected, not all 4 faces between cylinder head and manifold has been water proof.
These here used gasket has a 0,25 mm thickness and a 0,5 mm is prepared as Plan B already.
But, how could it be otherwise, plan B failed also.
The reason for this I see in these very thin and long M2 studs. It is not possible to give the necessary torque to it.
 
Plan C was now to try some  silicon as gasket material. I could find a source and have ordered a piece, 0,6 mm of thickness.
I have never cut this stuff with my plotter so far and if this will fail also a plan D was needed.It is not so much space there, but may be an O-ring could do it also.The water hole has to be bigger in the above mentioned 0,5 mm Abil N gasket and an O-ring will be used as an inlay.Some suitable O-rings had to be ordered too and I have got some time to do the powder coating of the manifold and water pipe until the gasket stuff will arrive. 
« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 08:15:53 AM by fumopuc »
Kind Regards
Achim

Offline Admiral_dk

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Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
« Reply #577 on: October 18, 2021, 10:00:07 AM »
The engine looks fantastic  :praise2:

I hope that you solve the leak problem without having to make new parts. On my motorcycles I usually smear a thin line of liquid gasket onto the gaskets in critical areas - that might do the trick for you too.

Offline derekwarner

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Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
« Reply #578 on: October 18, 2021, 10:03:14 AM »
Achim............gasket wafer plates [with contained/constrained o-rings] similar to the ones you show are common in CETOP 3 hydraulic engineering interfaces where you have two valve elements in sandwich configuration with each element having flat faces

The area where they differ is the 4 x retaining bolts are in a rectangular pattern, toward the outer corners of the plates

The gasket material or Teflon sheeting you are using will have the tendency to distort with increasing tension on the 2 x M2 Bolts

On consideration for a trial could be to use galvanised steel sheet of say 1mm thick. Another possibility would be to ensure you use softer 70 Duro Viton o-rings [of a correspondingly increased cross section]

When tightening the M2 bolts in a trial assembly, you could literally measure any deflection of the plate at the extremities. If this did occur, an increase in thickness of the steel sheet could be considered

If the steel sheet plates proved satisfactory, the final version could be carbon steel, then nickel plated which would protect the annular ring x the thickness of the plate viz of the cooling fluid holes

Derek 

[example CETOP 3 wafer sealing plate below]
« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 11:20:18 AM by derekwarner »
Derek L Warner - Honorary Secretary [Retired]
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Offline fumopuc

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Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
« Reply #579 on: October 18, 2021, 12:04:41 PM »
Per, Derek thanks for your answers and recommendations to solve this sealing issue.


To use a special liqiud gasket will solve the problem for sure, but I am afraid, that it will increase disassembly massive too.
This high tec stuff can be like a glue.


Derek concerning the gasket material I do not really worry.
See the data sheet below, no Teflon it is Silikon VMQ.
Sorry in German language only, but hardness of rubber measured in shore should be international.
It seems to be a bit softer than a soft O-ring like VMQ O-rings, they do have normally 70 shore.
Kind Regards
Achim

Offline Craig DeShong

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Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
« Reply #580 on: October 18, 2021, 02:40:48 PM »
Achim

A bit late on this discussion but I use high temperature red Permatex for all my gaskets.  Years ago I built one of the Debolt kits and they recommended this for all the gaskets.  It worked so well I've adopted it for all my gaskets ever since.

It sets up to a flexible 'rubber' consistency.  If you let it 'dry' for 24 hours, you can just scrape the excess off with a sharp knife and get a nice clean edge.  Dis=assembly is fairly easy, with a strong pull it comes apart.  If you really want to be able to readily dis-assemble the parts, place a film of oil on them before applying the Permatex.

Don't know if it's available in Germany, but I would think so.
Craig
It's not about the destination, not even so much about the journey,
but rather it's the interesting folks you meet along the way.

Offline derekwarner

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Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
« Reply #581 on: October 19, 2021, 12:13:30 AM »
mmmmmmm...crazy engineering..... :happyreader:

Durometer hardness was a scale of hardness established by American Chemist AF Shore & hence a hardness of Shore in the various scale ranges

I don't think that it can be considered Imperial or Metric

At College we spoke of elastomers of ?? Shore A, B or D hardness
In industry we specify or request  0-rings of 70 or 90 Duro

That Silicone sheet is probably about ~~60 Shore A...very soft ..

And as Craig says, Permetex is a quality liquid Silicone......Internationally distributed in about 6 different colours
much like that exotic coloured GOOP our Grand kids get stuck in carpet  :facepalm:

I have used Blue coloured Permetex for steam @ 3 Bar [~~135 degrees C],  on 3/4" diameter equal sized bolted flange sets for 1/8" diameter tube, so a reasonable surface footprint between mating flanges....absolutely leak free......I ensured the flange faces were degreased & oil free ...however only squeezed up against 3 small lengths of 0.006" wire inserted at the edges, which provided a consistent gasket thickness

Placement is also critical, as you have a very thin semi annular arc between a water gallery port & the chamfered clearance hole for the M2 bolts - not sure for the large chamfer?

I found the remaining contents [75%] of Permatex air cured in the tube within 3 weeks of opening .....to be unusable

Derek
« Last Edit: October 19, 2021, 04:52:43 AM by derekwarner »
Derek L Warner - Honorary Secretary [Retired]
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Offline fumopuc

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Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
« Reply #582 on: October 19, 2021, 08:13:33 AM »
Craig, Derek
thank you very much for your the recommendation of these high temp silicon compound.


Peramtex I have not heard so far, but it is available in Germany.
A quick cross check has shown, that this stuff is available from different vendors.
I have found
Permatex red
K2 Siliocon
Fli
Mannol
Zollex
ELRING Dirko HT
and others
I think Elring is a world wide known company for any kind of sealing technology.
Unfortunately the link to the English version of the data sheet is currently out of order, may be it will be available at local distributes in other countries.
Surly this type of liquid paste, as already mentioned by Per in his posting, would be an alternative solution too.
With its hardness of shore A 30 it will be softer than my ordered silicon sheet.
And as already mentioned by Derek before, a one time opened tube will not last very long, due to its property of curing with air contact.
But never the less, sure a very good solution also for this kind of application.


There is the entitled question about the largeness of the champfer.
To be honest, I do not know why I have done it so large.
This has happened during the cylinder head machining in January already and it seems, that I have made their a simple mistake, developed by my machining order.
The first picture below does show, that water and exhaust ports are drilled by the same diameter, this was done by one operation at the CNC mill.
The chamfering is done immediately afterward already.
The opening of the exhaust port hole to its final diameter was done later at the conventional mill, second picture below.
But there it was as its is now already.
Something to do better next time.

Never the less after getting the silicon sheet in my hands, immediately an attempt to cut it with my plotter was done.
After a dry cleaning as good as possible I have used an older cutting mat with very good results, see pictures below.

But before I will go ahead here, there was another stupid story to report about.
During all the sample assemblies so far, some M 1,6 mm hexagon socket head screws has been used for the fixation of the coolant outlet pipe with its two flanges, four each. That was easy to handle with the allen key from above.
Optical vise not nice and the idea was to replace these bolts by hex bolts at the final assembly.
During the powder coating the tube has been assembled with gaskets and one bolt each flange only.
Picture of my totally failed attempt below.
The other CAD picture does show the situation with my so far available 2,5 mm spanner.
The measured width is 2,66 mm, which allows a lot of movement until it really grab the head and than it is to late because the collision out side against the flange has happen already. So no chance to fix it with this available spanner.
In the net at company Knupfer I have found something much more suitable, see picture below.
Until today I have not made another attempt to change the bolts, but I will do so, latest when I try to repair the coating.
There is a method to use a kind of resin mixed with the relevant powder, never done so far, but I will try it after the leakage problem is solved.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2021, 08:26:42 AM by fumopuc »
Kind Regards
Achim

Offline derekwarner

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Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
« Reply #583 on: October 19, 2021, 11:29:42 AM »
Yes, Knupfer have an excellent range & good people to deal with  :ThumbsUp:.........

You could consider partial flat boring of the chamfer, provide controlled heating & fill the counterbore/chamfer with high temperature soft solder

Remachine the flange face flat to true, which will provide a greater width section footprint for a Permatex liquid gasket between the cooling water port & the M2 clearance holes

Derek
« Last Edit: October 19, 2021, 11:55:27 AM by derekwarner »
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Offline fumopuc

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Re: Bruce Macbeth Engine, European Version
« Reply #584 on: October 19, 2021, 02:22:46 PM »
Hi Derek, good to know that these spanners  are also known at your part of the world.

Concerning the big chamfer at the upper hole, exhaust port, I do not really worry.
If some exhaust fumes will find the way to the M2 stud, that will not be a big disaster, but seems to be unlikely due to the big open door into the manifold.

More important for me is, that the lower hole will be sealed, so no coolant can leave the system at this specific crossover.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2021, 02:34:49 PM by fumopuc »
Kind Regards
Achim