Author Topic: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale  (Read 151305 times)

Online Roger B

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #405 on: June 06, 2021, 12:31:54 PM »
Mirror image camshafts  ::)  :thinking: that sounds like a recipe for disaster unless they are very well identified.
Best regards

Roger

Offline Craig DeShong

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #406 on: June 06, 2021, 02:12:45 PM »
Mike, I just realized this engine is big enough to put in a kid’s go cart.  Imagine the bragging rites: 

I have a souped-up lawn mower engine in mine….

Well, I have a Grand Prix racing engine in mine!
Craig
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Offline Vixen

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #407 on: June 06, 2021, 04:13:18 PM »
We are back on topic again.... Strange how just one mention of the name B**man brings the schoolboy out of grown men :shrug:

Mirror image camshafts  ::)  :thinking: that sounds like a recipe for disaster unless they are very well identified.

Mercedes must have decided there was an advantage to be gained by using those mirror image camshafts. As you say, Roger, I will need to be very methodical to get them right.
 I am lucky in that I do not have to deal with fuel injection as well.

Mike, I just realized this engine is big enough to put in a kid’s go cart.  Imagine the bragging rites: 

I have a souped-up lawn mower engine in mine….

Well, I have a Grand Prix racing engine in mine!

Craig,

It may be a V8      and it may be built to a large 1/3 scale     but it was a tiny 1.5 litre engine to start with.    The 1/3 scale replica only displaces 55 cc, compared to the average 100 cc lawnmower engine. 

Cheers  :cheers:

Mike
« Last Edit: June 07, 2021, 09:04:03 AM by Vixen »
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Offline Art K

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #408 on: June 07, 2021, 03:24:53 AM »
Mike,
Yeah I had to chuckle when I saw this. But would the go cart go zoom zoom. :thinking:
Art
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Offline Vixen

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #409 on: June 21, 2021, 08:14:16 PM »
The British summer is over :ThumbsDown: :ThumbsDown:

The bad news is: it's raining every day again.  :ThumbsDown: :ThumbsDown:  The good news is: all garden work has stopped and it's machine shop time again.  :D :D :D

I have made a start on the two Bridge Pieces for the camshaft drive gear train. The Bridge Pieces will carry the camshaft idler gears and will allow them to be adjusted to take up the backlash between the crankshaft, the four camshafts and the magneto drive.

The Bridge Pieces were machined from 8.0 mm HE30 (6082) plate. They are mostly 3.0mm thick with one or two bosses for the idler gear spindles. Three M3 fixing screws, recessed into the 3.0mm section, will hold the Bridge Pieces to the rear of the engine. The toolpaths were created with Estlcam. Again, I used trochoidal pocketing; deep cuts with 10% step-over and high feedrates, to quickly remove the excess material in a shower of fine needle swarf. I am becoming comfortable with trochoildal (peel) milling. It removes material quickly, the feedrate remains constant throughout, as the width of cut never exceeds the specified limit. I set a 10% limit.

Here are two screenshots showing the trochoidal toolpath to achieve the 3.0mm thickness and also the toolpath for the two cutouts.







Here you can see one of the rough sawn 8.0 mm blanks with two M6 bolts securing it to a fixture plate held in the machine vice. Then, when part machined and at the end of the machining









The second Bridge was a bit more of a challenge as there was only one M6 bolt position. This time, I machined the smaller M3 screw pockets first and used two M3 screws in addition to the single M6 bolt to secure it to the fixture plate







Here are the two machined Bridge Pieces and you can see where the mount on the rear of the engine. The spindles for the idler gears will fit inside the reamed bosses.







The next stage will be a long slog to cut six 50 tooth idlers gears and four 32 tooth gears for the crankshaft and magneto drive.

Mike
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Offline RReid

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #410 on: June 21, 2021, 08:24:49 PM »
Here in California we'd be more than happy to take some of that rain off your hands. I'm enjoying following your build though!
Regards,
Ron

Offline gbritnell

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #411 on: June 21, 2021, 10:38:57 PM »
I'm still following along. Beautiful work on the engine! The gear train is really something!
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Online Admiral_dk

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #412 on: June 21, 2021, 10:57:51 PM »
Mike - it really starts to look like Machine Porn  :praise2:

Nice that the weather supplies you with shoptime - but will it be a showstopper for the next Guilford Show you and Jo has been talking about ?

Per

Offline steamer

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #413 on: June 22, 2021, 12:46:11 AM »
Daaaaaamn Sexy!
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Damned ijjit!

Offline crueby

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #414 on: June 22, 2021, 01:40:40 AM »
Wow.  Just,  wow.    :praise2:    Even with just those gears so far, looking like Terminator's pet Turkey!  Awesome.

Offline Laurentic

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #415 on: June 22, 2021, 10:10:30 AM »
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp:   Nice Mike, like it

Offline cnr6400

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #416 on: June 22, 2021, 12:26:11 PM »
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Online Roger B

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #417 on: June 22, 2021, 07:13:51 PM »
Yet more excellent machining  :praise2:  :praise2:  :wine1:
Best regards

Roger

Offline Laurentic

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #418 on: June 22, 2021, 09:37:02 PM »
Mike - I am sure you must have stated it somewhere but, out of interest, what is the bore and stroke of the model engine you are building here please?  It will help me get a feel of the size of this model.  I have to say the standard of your workmanship is something I can only dream of achieving, it is superb! 

Chris

Offline Vixen

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #419 on: June 22, 2021, 11:34:24 PM »
Hello Chris,

I am sure the bore and stoke info is back there somewhere, but you said you also wanted to get a feel for the size of the model.

OK, but first a bit more of it's history. The 1.5 litre V8 M165 and also the 3.0 litre V12 M163 were both developed for the 1939 racing season from the highly successful 3.0 litre V12 M154 of 1938. It would seem that Mercedes Benz had so much money, they could not spend it fast enough. The 1.5 litre V8 and the 3.0 litre V12 shared many common design features and shared many component parts. The M165 was essentially 8 cylinders of the V12 engine, however the cylinder angle had to be opened from the 60* V12 configuration to the 90* angle needed for a V8. Furthermore, both the bore and stroke had to be reduced to meet the 1.5 litre requirement. The result was a physically large engine with only a small capacity. Both of the 1939 engines featured twin compounded supercharges delivering 2.6 Bar of boost pressure and highly doped fuel.


The full size Mercedes-Benz M165 engine had a displacement of 1,495 cc. The bore and stroke being 64  mm x 58 mm

The 1:3 scale model of the M165 engine will have a displacement of 55.4 cc and a bore and stroke of 21.3 mm x 19.3 mm

The 1/3 scale M165 engine fits into a cube; length 316 mm, width 250 mm and height 205 mm.  Big engine; but small capacity.

Mike
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Sometimes, it can be a long and winding road

 

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