Author Topic: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale  (Read 151426 times)

Online Vixen

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #360 on: May 12, 2021, 08:01:28 PM »
Jason

Thanks for the compliment.  :ThumbsUp:

The surface finish was achieved with medium size glass bead media blasted at about 7Bar. I recently bought a 8Kg tub off e-bay for about £30. The beads are hard and round (not the cheap crushed glass variety) The glass beads produce a smoother 'peened'  finish than the aluminium oxide grit I was using previously. That produced a rougher finish (ideal for bonding paint). The beads also produced very little dust in the cabinet, so I could clearly see what I was doing.

I expect the 'new' to disappear with time as the aluminium surface slowly oxidises to a darker shade of grey.

Mike
« Last Edit: May 12, 2021, 08:16:44 PM by Vixen »
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Offline Jasonb

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #361 on: May 12, 2021, 08:15:28 PM »
Thanks Mike I may give some a try as I used my budget Aldi gun with some ali oxide for the first time to clean up a part after silver solder fabrication the other day and was pleased with the outcomel but thought it would be too rough for an ali crankcase. Will still need some handwork but should replace the garryflex block final rubbing.

Offline Admiral_dk

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #362 on: May 12, 2021, 10:25:59 PM »
I'm again thoroughly impressed with your work Mike - not least because how you create all the G-Code  :o

I don't even want to think about how many errors I would end up with, doing it your way - not to mention the amount of smashed tools  :-[

I agree with Jason about the comparison to the original (that admittedly has a lot of years of wear, tear and corrosion).

Per

Offline Craig DeShong

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #363 on: May 12, 2021, 11:17:45 PM »
Mountains of swarf.... no doubt!


Looks fantastic Mike.   :ThumbsUp:

 :popcorn:  :popcorn: :popcorn:
Craig
The destination motivates us toward excellence, the journey entertains us, and along the way we meet so many interesting people.

Online Vixen

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #364 on: May 13, 2021, 01:28:00 PM »
I agree with Jason about the comparison to the original (that admittedly has a lot of years of wear, tear and corrosion).

Per

Yes Per, that engine was built 83 years ago and has seen a bit of life.

I have found out a bit more about thier history, which may be of interest to some of out members.

Some more history of the W165 1.5 litre Grand Prix cars

Grand prix motor during the 1930’s was driven by intense nationalistic fervor. The might of the “Silver Arrows” was the result of a virtually limitless budget, illustrated by the fact that for the 1938 season no fewer than 14 cars and 19 of the 3 litre supercharged GP engines were built by Mercedes-Benz for the nine races they competed in that year. It was also owing to this vast budget that Mercedes-Benz could even consider designing and building a brand new 1.5 litre car just for the 1939 Tripoli Grand Prix and to do it in less than eight months. It is believed that the Mercedes-Benz factory may have built four cars, but only two were completed in time for the Triploi race.

History shows the two W165 cars dominated the Tripoli race with Herman Lang taking first place and Rudi Caracciola following closely behind. This was to be the only race the W165 cars competed in, before the clouds of war brought motor racing to a stop in Europe for many years.

Mercedes-Benz continued to develop their racing cars during 1939 and into 1940 despite world events. The W165 was modified to use a more powerful two-stage supercharger to replace the single stage unit used for the Tripoli race. I have copies of some blueprints, which were signed off for production, dated July 1940. I based my 1/3 scale model of the engine on these blueprints.

By 1941 events were taking their toll on the Mercedes race organisation, the engineering staff were being re-assigned to essential war production work or were being drafted into uniform. The decision was made to disperse the cars to safe locations further to the East. Cars and equipment were to be stored in secure locations, which include abandoned mine shafts, as far away as Czechoslovakia and Romania. The two 1.5 litre W165 cars were walled up in a deep cellar, in a secret location, near Dresden. One car was in almost  complete , the other was partially disassembled.

Towards the end of 1944, Germany was being pressed from both directions, US/UK forces from the west and the Russian steam roller from the East. Mercedes-Benz decided to relocate what they could into safer locations. The two W165 cars at Dresden were disinterred and transported by road to the border with Neutral Switzerland. At the border, the cars were impounded by the Swiss authorities and later released to the care of the Mercedes Swiss distributor in Zurich,  on payment of all the import duties and taxes.

When peace returned to the world, Caracciola, now a Swiss resident, was invited to race a W165 in the 1946 Indy 500. Apparently one of the W165 cars was resurrected and prepared for this race. despite problems in finding spare parts of any description. Particularly replacement, aircraft grade, fuel piping for the corrosive fuel. Unfortunately, the Allied Authorities refused to release the car for temporary export. Caracciola, still went to Indianapolis, now to drive an American car. Unfortunately he was badly injured in a high speed crash during qualifying.

The two surviving W165 cars were eventually returned to Mercedes-Benz in Stuttgart where they lingered in the museum collection for nearly 50 years. It was an invitation from the Duke of Richmond to demonstrate the Tripoli Grand Prix winner at the 1995 Goodwood Festival of Speed that prompted the two cars to be restored, including new body shells. Lang’s winning car has since been shown and run at several Goodwood  events, while the ex-Caracciola machine was placed on permanent display in the Mercedes-Benz Museum in Stuttgart



During my researches, I found a copy of this print. It shows Lang (16) and Caracciola (24) leading away from the pursuing pack of red Italian cars at the start of the 1939 Tripoli GP race.



Hope you find this little bit of history interesting

Mike
« Last Edit: May 16, 2021, 09:17:45 PM by Vixen »
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Offline ddmckee54

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #365 on: May 14, 2021, 03:16:06 PM »
Mike:

Back in Post #338 you showed a screen shot of the dry sump that showed the depth of cut for each layer.  How did you generate those lines?  I've got my suspicions, but "Enquiring minds want to know".

Don

Offline Admiral_dk

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #366 on: May 14, 2021, 10:23:11 PM »
Thank you for the history info - very interesting story.

Online Vixen

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #367 on: May 14, 2021, 10:27:43 PM »
Thank you for the history info - very interesting story.

Thanks Per, that makes the effort worthwhile.

MIke
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Sometimes, it can be a long and winding road

Online Vixen

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #368 on: May 14, 2021, 10:37:19 PM »
Mike:

Back in Post #338 you showed a screen shot of the dry sump that showed the depth of cut for each layer.  How did you generate those lines?  I've got my suspicions, but "Enquiring minds want to know".

Don

I have replied to this post in the    Advanced 3D CAM and 3D machining topic

Mike
It is the journey that matters, not the destination

Sometimes, it can be a long and winding road

Offline Craig DeShong

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #369 on: May 15, 2021, 09:10:29 PM »
Thanks for the history regarding the cars and engine you are modeling.  I always find that knowing the history of the subject you are modeling is part of the story and adds interest to your model when you show it and can explain it's place in history.

Thanks again and thanks for sharing your journey of building this fascinating model with us.
Craig
The destination motivates us toward excellence, the journey entertains us, and along the way we meet so many interesting people.

Offline Art K

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #370 on: May 15, 2021, 10:26:46 PM »
Mike,
I have always been fascinated by the stories about how stuff like this came into being. Good to see what your doing and how you go about making it.
Art
« Last Edit: May 16, 2021, 11:16:19 PM by Art K »
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Offline Roger B

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #371 on: May 16, 2021, 06:53:38 AM »
Excellent as ever  :praise2:  :praise2:  :wine1: I do enjoy the history  :)  :)

Did I miss the making of the exhaust manifold?
Best regards

Roger

Offline fumopuc

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #372 on: May 16, 2021, 08:58:02 AM »
Hi Mike,  good to see here all the historical detail. Thanks for that.
Kind Regards
Achim

Offline AVTUR

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #373 on: May 16, 2021, 11:39:20 AM »
Mike

When they were raced what fuel did they use? A methanol based or a petrol based fuel?

I know Alfa Romeos after the War were racing on methanol and I thought methanol was always used at Indianapolis.

AVTUR
There is no such thing as a stupid question.

Online Vixen

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Re: Mercedes-Benz W165 Grand Prix engine in 1:3 scale
« Reply #374 on: May 16, 2021, 12:17:10 PM »
Thanks everyone for your generous comments. I am pleased you liked the side track into the background history.

Researching the history of these race cars has not been easy. Their history pre-dates the internet, all you find there is hearsay and myths. You need to dig a lot deeper and read a lot of books, even then, the true facts are scarce.  :happyreader:

Roger, the one exhaust manifold is only a 3D plastic print to confirm the shape will fit. I have yet to consider how to fabricate it. Some jobs you can keep putting off for a long time. :shrug:

AVTUR Yes, the racing fuel they used contained methanol but it also contained a lot more besides. I am in the middle of preparing a piece which will be titled " When industrial chemists went motor racing". You will have to wait a few more weeks for it to be completed. You may find that fuel cocktail rather interesting.

Avgas  NO, Avtur, NO    The Silver Arrows ran on pure dope.   :zap: :zap:

Stay tuned

Mike
« Last Edit: May 16, 2021, 03:15:55 PM by Vixen »
It is the journey that matters, not the destination

Sometimes, it can be a long and winding road

 

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