Author Topic: 2:1 Helical gears for Mastiff  (Read 13781 times)

Offline mklotz

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2623
  • LA, CA, USA
    • SOFTWARE FOR PEOPLE WHO BUILD THINGS!
Re: 2:1 Helical gears for Mastiff
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2013, 11:58:52 PM »

... I was able to figure out the 63 and 27 degrees with help from Marv Klotz's helixcf.exe program. Thanks Marv. ...

While it's true that I coded the equations and constructed the program, the real credit here goes to Chuck Fellows, a good member of this forum, who did all the math and supplied me with the material to code.

Just want to be sure that credit goes to the right place.
Regards, Marv
Home Shop Freeware
https://www.myvirtualnetwork.com/mklotz

Offline ozzie46

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 343
Re: 2:1 Helical gears for Mastiff
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2013, 12:30:45 AM »

  Hi Chuck, I have the plans you posted on the HMEM a couple years back and have been checking them over.

 But for the life of me I could not wrap my head around how 8  teeth meshed with 16.

 Now that John posted his CAD drawing now it all makes sense. Thank you John. :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: Sorry no CNC.

   Your right Marv, I should have mentioned Chuck in that too as I know that you did develop the program after he made his helical gear fixture to help those of us that are a bit math challenged. :embarassed: :embarassed: :embarassed: Sorry for the slip up

  Now I may grind up a form tool to try to cut some or maybe better buy a 32 DP cutter been wanting one any way. Would I need the one that cuts 16 teeth?

   Ron

Offline cfellows

  • Rest In Peace
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1700
Re: 2:1 Helical gears for Mastiff
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2013, 04:09:38 AM »
Sorry guys, here's the attachment...

Chuck
So many projects, so little time...

Offline ozzie46

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 343
Re: 2:1 Helical gears for Mastiff
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2013, 08:42:26 PM »
I talked to to Hugh in New York, forum name “bytewise”, as he is building a Doxford opposed engine

       http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,1556.msg23103.html#msg23103
   

  He had to cut some helical gears with same angles as the ones I need. Anyway he told me that there was a formula in Machinery Handbook to figure which gear cutters to use cut the gears.  He said you can't go by the ones to cut spur gears.

  I looked up Helical gears in my Machinerys' Handbook 28th Editon Large Print on page 2109. It stated that “the cutter for milling the helical gears is not selected with reference to yhe actual number of teeth in the gear,as in spur grearing, but ratherwith reference to a calculated Number N'  that takes into account the effect on the tooth profile of lead angle, normal diametrical pitch, and cutter diameter.”

It gave a formula of    N' = NK + QK'


K,K' and Q are constants found on pg 2110 in my book.

 After much head scratching and moaning  :headscratch: :headscratch: :insane: :insane: :insane:I was able to figure out how to work the formula.

Math and I go together like oil and water!

N is number of teeth and  K and K' are constants from the table on helix angles and Q is from the table  on Outside and Pitch Dia. Of Standard Involute milling Cutters. On the same pg.

 Any way here is what I came up with. 

  For the 63* gear the formula is:

 N' = (8 x 10.687 ) + ( 53.76 x 3.852 ) = 85.50 + 207.08 = 292.58 say 293    which is a # 1 cutter.

  ( I round up or down to get to 2 decimal points in the totals)

 For the 27* gear it is:

 N' = ( 16 x 1.414 ) + ( 53.76 x .260 ) = 22.62 + 13.98 = 36.6 say 37 which is a # 3 cutter.

  These are for 32 DP cutters.

 Could some one check my math and see if I did it right?

  It looks like I'm going to need to buy some cutters. Hopefully I can sell a couple of never used Gas Model Airplane Engines for large scale models I have and will probably never use, to raise the funds for the cutters.

  Still haven't heard from Hemmingway yet.

  George, did you go thru all this to select the right cutters?

  Ron

Offline ozzie46

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 343
Re: 2:1 Helical gears for Mastiff
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2013, 01:23:44 PM »
Still no response back from Hemmingway. I'll give it another day and send another e-mail.

Ron

Offline ozzie46

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 343
Re: 2:1 Helical gears for Mastiff
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2013, 12:26:29 AM »
Got a reply from Hemmingway today.

 They have the gears for 47.50 GB Pounds and 4.70 GB Pounds shipping. Works out to about $ 83.00.

 I can buy the gear cutters for about the same price with shipping, so I guess that is what I will be doing.
 I have been working on the fixture that Chuck developed and hope to order the cutters soon.

  I guess no one wants to check my math.  :headscratch: Oh well.

  Ron

Offline Bezalel

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 376
  • - Skype:Bezalel2000
Re: 2:1 Helical gears for Mastiff
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2013, 02:02:06 AM »
Hay Ozzie
 
I can't blame you wanting a second opinion on the maths.....  at 83 bucks a shot you (I) couldn't afford to get that wrong too many times.
 
I guess no one out there has amature indemnity insurance for providing amature advice.   :facepalm:
 
Bez
Queensland - wet one day, humid the next

Offline Don1966

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6818
  • Columbia, MS
Re: 2:1 Helical gears for Mastiff
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2013, 02:41:24 AM »
Hay Ozzie
 
I can't blame you wanting a second opinion on the maths.....  at 83 bucks a shot you (I) couldn't afford to get that wrong too many times.
 
I guess no one out there has amature indemnity insurance for providing amature advice.   :facepalm:
 
Bez
Bez this is Ron's thread so let's be discrete. I don't have the indemnity insurance but what kind of advice are you looking for? I can PM you about it.

Don

Offline Bezalel

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 376
  • - Skype:Bezalel2000
Re: 2:1 Helical gears for Mastiff
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2013, 09:59:13 AM »
Oops  sorry!!
 
Ozzie
 
I can't comment on the formula but for your maths... my spreadsheet gets the same numbers as you.. so its either right or we are both using the same dodgy spreadsheet application.   :Jester:
 
Apologies for my style of humour - Apparently it can get better if you wet it down  :DrinkPint: :DrinkPint: :DrinkPint: .......a lot.
 
 :cheers:
Cheers
 
 
 
 
 
Queensland - wet one day, humid the next

Online Jo

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15306
  • Hampshire, england.
Re: 2:1 Helical gears for Mastiff
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2013, 10:12:32 AM »
Got a reply from Hemmingway today.

 They have the gears for 47.50 GB Pounds and 4.70 GB Pounds shipping. Works out to about $ 83.00.

For such a difficult set of gears to cut I would have been tempted to pay my money and know they were good  :shrug:.

Jo
Enjoyment is more important than achievement.

Offline bytewise

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 59
  • Dutchess Co. NY USA
Re: 2:1 Helical gears for Mastiff
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2013, 01:45:28 PM »
I agree with Jo. If your time is worth anything, it would be best to buy them.
Hugh

Offline ozzie46

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 343
Re: 2:1 Helical gears for Mastiff
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2013, 02:04:52 PM »


   Thanks for the math check Bez. As far as the humor, no worries.

  Thanks for looking in Jo, Hugh.

  I have WAY more time than money  :lolb: :lolb: so if it takes a few times to get it right that's okay. At least I'll have advanced my machining scope, hopefully.

  Ron

Online Jo

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15306
  • Hampshire, england.
Re: 2:1 Helical gears for Mastiff
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2013, 02:07:25 PM »
We will be watching and hoping it goes right  :)

Jo
Enjoyment is more important than achievement.

Offline ozzie46

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 343
Re: 2:1 Helical gears for Mastiff
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2013, 02:55:35 PM »
Hay Ozzie
 
I can't blame you wanting a second opinion on the maths.....  at 83 bucks a shot you (I) couldn't afford to get that wrong too many times.
 
I guess no one out there has amature indemnity insurance for providing amature advice.   :facepalm:
 
Bez
Bez this is Ron's thread so let's be discrete. I don't have the indemnity insurance but what kind of advice are you looking for? I can PM you about it.

Don

  Thanks for looking in Don. No problem. Nothing here to get upset over.

  Ron

Offline ozzie46

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 343
Re: 2:1 Helical gears for Mastiff
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2013, 03:04:06 PM »


  Jo, ordered the cutters today. They should be here in a few days.  I will start a new thread when they arrive and I start on my Helical Gear Making journey.

  I made the timing gears and they weren't as bad as I thought they would be. So maybe these won't be either. I have a Grizzly g0704 mill that the head rotates from 0* to 90* on so that should go a long way to easing the pain.

  Ron

 

SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal