Another Westbury Seal 15cc

[Jasonb]

There are  alot of fake bearings about so they may not be Koyo. What is listed on the Koyo site?

Looking at another cataloge that I have to have they use the R6 ref numbers and list R6 as 7/32 and R6ZZ and R62RS both as 9/32 As you have EE3ZZ on the boxes not EE3 they are more than likely to be labled correctly. What was the actual listing?

[doubletop]

There are  alot of fake bearings about so they may not be Koyo. What is listed on the Koyo site?

Looking at another cataloge that I have to have they use the R6 ref numbers and list R6 as 7/32 and R6ZZ and R62RS both as 9/32 As you have EE3ZZ on the boxes not EE3 they are more than likely to be labeled correctly. What was the actual listing?

Jason

look at what Petertha posted a couple of messages back. The referencing from Koyo. The box should say EE3S ZZ or EE3S 2RS the 'S" denoting over size. So yes the likelihood is they are fakes with an error in the packaging. However, my "good" bearings from my local supplier didn't come packaged or have any markings on them at all! I wonder where he got them from?

Pete

[Jasonb]

That was a reseller's site or what google found, I could not find EE3 or EE3S on Koyo's (JTEKT) site by entering those numbers in the search box. They only seem to have roller bearings in imperial all the ball ones I can see are metric.

[doubletop]

That was a reseller's site or what google found, I could not find EE3 or EE3S on Koyo's (JTEKT) site by entering those numbers in the search box. They only seem to have roller bearings in imperial all the ball ones I can see are metric.

Jason

You are correct Koyo don't recognise EE3 or R6 or KLNJ3/8. Neither do they match anything with the EE3 or EE3ZZ/EE32RS dimensions. However, when you search Google for EE3 you get references to Koyo EE3 from various suppliers

Strange

Pete

[internal_fire]

There is no question that ee3, ee3s, ee3-zz, and ee3s-zz are all legitimate bearing numbers. Other makers, such as SKF, also make them, not just Koyo.

Two things are a bit unusual: Simply adding an S to the bearing number yields a completely different size bearing, and the thickness is different when adding ZZ shields or 2RS seals.

Obviously there are lots of fakes in the bearing world, but that is a different issue.

Gene

[Mcgyver]

There's lots of instances of stuff being in the SKF catalogue but actually not being available.  SKF says they make imperial sizes, but you're often  (always?) turned away when ordering.  Their catalogue frequently disappoints - I've done designs and then had literally had two years for supply!  In a customer-centric world, they'd cross the discontinue and put in stock item or std lead time beside the rest.  I cant' recall who I had to go with last time, but there are few options for quality imperial bearings these days, maybe i used NSK.... if it's possible to adapt a design to standard bearings it is a good call to do so imo.

Also, if you go with sealed, I'd highly recommend RSL (low friction seals).  They are a lot nicer and imo and the new choice that replaces sealed bearings.  A sealed bearing has a lot more drag

[doubletop]

After the baring saga was resolved, and thanks for all your input on that, it was time to move on with this one step forward and two back project.

I think I mention that I had trouble with the PCD of the holes in the main bearing housing and had to remake that. I then moved on the timing housing and timing case, and had posted a bit about that.

The problem I had was finding suitable datums on the castings such that the timing housing lined up with the block and the camshaft bearing holder. There is no point of reference on the drawings for the location of the hole for the camshaft bearing. This impacted the lining up the timing case with the timing housing. I thought I had it sorted until I found I had not.

Coupled with that, although both the holes for the main bearing and camshaft were machined together in each end of the block, the main bearings were in perfect alignment and a dummy crank rotated freely. The camshaft bearings were out of alignment slightly and a dummy camshaft would not freely rotate.



I have no idea what went wrong but the point and which the camshaft came through the case was off center. Ho Hum, here we go again. I had seen that Vixen had made his from bar stock so I investigated doing that. The first time I had tried using my CNC for a more complex item.

First up was the timing housing, that was relatively simple. Having created the drawings for it, based on the drawing for the timing case, the relative positions of the holes were easily established.



Then came the timing case made from a block of 6061 that I had available. (it machines beautifully) the rear cavity machined first



Then the block flipped and the outside machined



After zap in the sand blaster to remove the machining marks here it is fitted to the block with its casting mates cast to one side.



And the new main bearing housing on the other end. You will notice a little scallop taken out of the side to accommodate the camshaft bearing. I CNC’d that directly from my drawings and the main bearing housing fitted with the camshaft bearing perfectly without any fettling. Indicating to me that the relative positions of the openings in the block are in the right place.



The major plus with the new timing housing is the camshaft bearings are now in alignment and the camshaft rotates freely.

I am feeling a bit more positive about things now.

Pete

[doubletop]

I have just come in from the workshop where I am in the middle of boring and drilling all the holes in the top of the block (more on that later). I am looking at my CAD drawings and the next step of drilling the manifold ports and stud holes, where this issue exists of the manifold and head studs interfere with each other, and it occurred to me "Why not put the manifold on upside down?". The offending manifold studs will be lower giving a tad more room for the head studs.



Inverted



Normal



Apart from "what about the exhaust pipe", which can be sorted, even if it comes out of the manifold cover,  what have I missed?

Edit OK the middle hole will still be a problem but that could probably be omitted without any issues


Pete

[Charles Lamont]

Interference between plugs, their caps, and the carb, its mounting studs and nut could be a problem.

[doubletop]

Interference between plugs, their caps, and the carb, its mounting studs and nut could be a problem.

Charles

I had thought that so checked and added the additional images to the post. There would be more clearance for plugs 1 and 4 and about the same for 2 and 3. It seems the carburetor will be well clear of the timing case or flywheel, depending which end it is fitted.





Pete

[Jasonb]

I thought the carb was centrally mounted and you had the choice of exhaust at either end.

[doubletop]

I thought the carb was centrally mounted and you had the choice of exhaust at either end.

My mistake yes. But it doesn't have to be that way. The manifold can be flipped to fix the stud problem and the carb could be mounted on the cover plate

Pete

[Jasonb]

If you are going to go that far and modify the cover to take the carb. Might as well just make a new cover with the bosses positioned to suit a new stud layout and keep the manifold the right way up.

[doubletop]

If you are going to go that far and modify the cover to take the carb. Might as well just make a new cover with the bosses positioned to suit a new stud layout and keep the manifold the right way up.

The cover isn't the problem it is the manifold casting that doesn't have anywhere to move the holes to. However, given the success with making an replacement timing cover I may try making a new manifold with the webs that allow the holes to be shifted. I think Vixen did much the same.



The timing cover was done with a 6mm end mill however something smaller would be required for the manifold. I do have a new Dremel 3mm ball end cutter so I may try that. I have some more  6061 and that doesn't bog the cutters.

EDIT - looking at the drawing again it can be done with a 6mm cutter

Pete

[Roger B]

Good solutions to the various challenges      Still following along