In the year 2027... [MEM competition/challenge - should we have one?]

[Jasonb]

That really is overcomplicating things, just as well it will be for air engines.

If a test were part of the challenge then it would need to be simple such as a bit of string and a token weight on the end. If people have to start making brake testers etc. then you will just loose a lot of entries. I think most people here make models for the enjoyment and are happy if they simply run which can be enough of a challenge in itself.

[AdeV]

Agreed - I did think, in my head, we could have a power test - but you're right Jason and Art - I think for a challenge, especially one that new builders, or those with minimal equipment, can take part in, that's probably going to take it too far.

If we do get enough interest to have categories, though, I'm sure we could have a category that includes more complexity; for those who want to challenge themselves as well... But it's still early days yet.

Do please keep the ideas coming, though - right now, there are no bad ideas! (except maybe making the challenge engine a 1/10th scale 2025 F1 power unit!!)

[Minh Thanh]

Hi !
 Some thoughts:

- How long will it last? Or is it just for the 15th anniversary?

- Is it similar to the HMEM forum? If it is similar to HMEM, then it should be reconsidered.

Even now, I don't know what the competition will be like.

Just a few personal opinions and questions:

- Who will be the judges?

- Are they qualified enough to judge?

- Will they be truly fair to all members?

...and...

And if the above are not satisfactory, it will lead to division among members.

In a vocational training class:

Everyone is trained with the same curriculum, using the same tools and machinery. At the end of a course, there will be a competition. The score will be the result of the learning process and will be graded by teachers with clear grading principles, possibly even approved by the school's professional council...

In a forum: whether a domestic or international forum – a place that brings together people with the same passion and interests, most of whom are not formally trained... and many other things.

So who is that competition for? For those with experience, skills, and modern equipment.....? Or for amateurs? (Certainly not)

...

and...

Personally: I don't care much. For my project, I try my best, doing it as well as possible with the machines and tools I have... the result: the engine runs, and that's the victory and happiness, I'm proud of it, and that's enough.

Sometimes, a forum simply needs to fulfill its intended purpose, maintaining it as a friendly place for everyone – a friendliness that is demonstrated through actions and words, not empty rhetoric. That's all it takes! And you – all the members – are doing a great job of that.
 

[Alyn Foundry]

As I’m neither a fan of steam/air engines or fabrication for that matter I shall pass, however
You could use engine RPM  as the basis for competition? Contactless, laser tachometers are relatively inexpensive these days and a fixed pressure and pipe bore would ensure a level playing field.

Many years ago I got involved with the BBC series ‘ the great egg race ‘ we reached the semis  you had to propel an egg as far as possible using the power obtained from a standardised elastic band.  Just a thought to perhaps challenge the membership’s ingenuity?

   Graham.

[Vixen]

Many years ago I got involved with the BBC series ‘ the great egg race ‘ we reached the semis  you had to propel an egg as far as possible using the power obtained from a standardised elastic band.  Just a thought to perhaps challenge the membership’s ingenuity?

   Graham.

Perhaps the the MEM equivalent of the 'standardised elastic band' could be a 16gram screw-in disposable Co2 cartridge. The challenge would be to find the most ingenious way to make use of it's power.

What does it do? How does it do it? That's for you to decide. That's your Challenge

Mike

[Jasonb]

Well I'm not old enough to have taken up knitting yet so will have a go and that is what I voted for. Maybe a class for embroidered designs could be added

However I am also willing to give up submitting an entry should a set engine design be decided upon and produce some drawings for others to build, be that a whole engine or some part(s) that must be included.

However I think keeping things a lot less formal/restricted and maybe not even a competition is likely to see more members take part. Keep the critera as simple as possible. The suggestions of a maximum displacement or size would be enough maybe total of L+H+W = X.

If it was felt there was even a need for a "winner" then just let the other builders who have entered vote amoung themselves, a video of the engine running would be enough but a builder could also show the engine doing something if they wanted. Speed or pressure limits would mean some member shaving to buy pressure gauges, regulators and tachos and they would probably preffer to put the money towards their own projects.

By the way the votes are going it looks like one criteria will be to provide a build thread as more seem to be voyers than doers

[PaulR]

But I'd like to think that we can come up with something where the taking part is more rewarding than the actual winning... Is that even possible?

Yep, the winner buys all the other entrants a beer 

[vtsteam]

Okay, Ade, no bad ideas, here comes one -- sort of left field.....

Let's suppose a modeler has started building an engine, let's call him/her/them umm "Modeler S."

Now suppose this Modeler S stopped building that engine awhile ago, for one of various reasons only known to Moddler S. Or maybe for no reason apparent to Moddeler S. And Modeler S. has for a time, up to even a period of years since thought, "Gee I really ought to finish that." But no, the desire has never returned strong enough to make that actually happen.

Then suppose a forum devoted to engine models ran a forum sort of "contest" which required all participants to complete a past unfinished project by a certain date. The progress of each of these models was maintained not in a heavy level competitive spirit, but more along the lines of encouraging each other to make it across the finish line with a completed formerly procrastinated model by the drop dead deadline. Could the enthusiasm of a group toward a common level of success, perhaps spiced with some friendly cajoling when absolutely necessary do the trick? Could each member have their name engraved on the perennial "I Did It.....Finally" trophy?

Modeler S asked if there were any requirements for things like CNC vs Manual vs Castings vs Commercial kit vs Bar Stock, and the answer from the powers that be was, "Nope!" or perhaps words to that effect like, "Just finish the damn thing  ."

Modeler S then considered whether his/her/their level of experience in modeling engines was competitive with some of the superb builders he/she/they saw around him/her/them, but quickly realized that they would probably have taken on a more crippling level of detail and machining skill by comparison, and would have a naturally more difficult time finishing.

Hmmmmm, thought Modeler S.... but do I really want to finish that thing......

[Dave Otto]

Okay, Ade, no bad ideas, here comes one -- sort of left field.....

Let's suppose a modeler has started building an engine, let's call him/her/them umm "Modeler S."

Now suppose this Modeler S stopped building that engine awhile ago, for one of various reasons only known to Moddler S. Or maybe for no reason apparent to Moddeler S. And Modeler S. has for a time, up to even a period of years since thought, "Gee I really ought to finish that." But no, the desire has never returned strong enough to make that actually happen.

Then suppose a forum devoted to engine models ran a forum sort of "contest" which required all participants to complete a past unfinished project by a certain date. The progress of each of these models was maintained not in a heavy level competitive spirit, but more along the lines of encouraging each other to make it across the finish line with a completed formerly procrastinated model by the drop dead deadline. Could the enthusiasm of a group toward a common level of success, perhaps spiced with some friendly cajoling when absolutely necessary do the trick? Could each member have their name engraved on the perennial "I Did It.....Finally" trophy?

Modeler S asked if there were any requirements for things like CNC vs Manual vs Castings vs Commercial kit vs Bar Stock, and the answer from the powers that be was, "Nope!" or perhaps words to that effect like, "Just finish the damn thing  ."

Modeler S then considered whether his/her/their level of experience in modeling engines was competitive with some of the superb builders he/she/they saw around him/her/them, but quickly realized that they would probably have taken on a more crippling level of detail and machining skill by comparison, and would have a naturally more difficult time finishing.

Hmmmmm, thought Modeler S.... but do I really want to finish that thing......

That's funny, I could have multiple entries in that contest. I would be hard to choose which one to enter. 

Dave

[crueby]

But I'd like to think that we can come up with something where the taking part is more rewarding than the actual winning... Is that even possible?

Yep, the winner buys all the other entrants a beer 

Have to phrase that carefully, or the winner buys one beer for all the other entrants to share!   

[AdeV]

Even now, I don't know what the competition will be like.

No, me neither! Hence this thread & poll...

Just a few personal opinions and questions:

- Who will be the judges?

- Are they qualified enough to judge?

- Will they be truly fair to all members?

...and...

And if the above are not satisfactory, it will lead to division among members.

Again, right now - I don't know who the judges will be, or if there even will be one, or whether it's just a bit of fun. I'd be happy to do any judging - but am I qualified? I guess that depends on what the criteria is.

Personally: I don't care much. For my project, I try my best, doing it as well as possible with the machines and tools I have... the result: the engine runs, and that's the victory and happiness, I'm proud of it, and that's enough.

Sometimes, a forum simply needs to fulfill its intended purpose, maintaining it as a friendly place for everyone – a friendliness that is demonstrated through actions and words, not empty rhetoric. That's all it takes! And you – all the members – are doing a great job of that.
 

Totally get that - and please don't feel like this is some kind of mandatory thing.

Let me tell you where the inspiration for this came from: I've been working on some model railway stuff recently, partnering with a chap who's a member of the Scale Four Society (many rivet counters amongst their membership!). They came up with "The Scale Four Challenge" - build a model railway in 4mm scale, can be anything from real life, or fictional, the only criteria were that:
- the scenic section had to fit on a base no larger than 18.83 square feet
- it had to be in P4/S87 gauge
- It had to cost no more than what two people could reasonably afford.

They had an earlier challenge with similar rules, although IIRC that one had to be transportable (In one go) in a typical British hatchback car (so none of your American F150 duallies!).

I'd like the MEM challenge - if it happens - to be along the same lines: A short list of sensible criteria, which can realistically be achieved by anyone willing to put in the time and effort. The reward would, at the very least, be an engine one can proudly state one has built oneself; and maybe there could be some actual prizes... never say never.

Such a thing will never please everyone, or be attractive to everyone, and I get that: So any prize will be suitably token in size such that no-one need feel obligated to take part, if they don't want to. It's just a bit of fun, is all.

Here's an idea for first prize: For the 12 months after the conclusion of the challenge, we'll display a picture of your engine & a link to your build log, at the top of every MEM page...

[Minh Thanh]

In any competition, there are always winners and losers.

But the important thing is: will the losers and  project supporters accept the result? And if they don't accept it, there will certainly be division among the members.

Personal opinion: For the 15th anniversary, why not honor the projects? Select projects that are presented meticulously, and designate those members' projects as "inspiring projects" (or similar).

That's how we, the forum, thank the members who have contributed wonderful projects to the forum.

Of course, there must be mandatory requirements, but at least the images from those projects must remain with the forum. We can't have a project win an award and then all the images disappear a few years later.

[AVTUR]

Why only one option?

AVTUR

[crueby]

Another possibility, instead of an engine how about a flyball governor? Should be a quicker build than a full engine, design one that is large enough to put a hand crank on to drive it but small enough for small bar stock and smaller lathe/mill.
Just an idea. There are lots of styles of them, we could do a single design or let everyone pick their favorite.
 

[Captain Jerry]

Competition brings division. I want MEM to be here when my new shop is finished with all members participating.