Table lathe and drill/mill

[Robert Hornby]

I will be moving to a retirement village in the near future and my workshop will have to go. I would still like to have a small bench lathe and drill/mill and have been looking online at the SEIG products and asking if any member has experience of this brand. I would also welcome any suggestions. I propose to set up a bench in the garage so space will be at a premium.

[samc88]

Andrew Whale on the Learning Turning Metal youtube channel uses (or did use) Seig lathe and mini mill.
https://www.youtube.com/c/LearningTurningMetalbyAndrewWhale

I have a warco WM12 mini mill which I am impressed with for its compact size

[Jasonb]

I have 3 of their mills.

A lot will depend on the length of your bench. Probably too small for the SX3 or X3 size, I use the X3 the most. Next down is the SX2.7 which is of lighter construction but will still remove a reasonable amount of metal, I quite often sit at this one which may be a future consideration if standing becomes a problem.  The X2.... size may well suit limited space better but I have not used that size mill.

As for reliability I got the X3 in 2007, it has needed 1 pair of brushed, a couple of toothed belts and one LED (replacement still to be fitted) which I would class as very good.

Certainly upto making model engines.

If space is very limited then also look at the Sherline products

[paul gough]

The sizes of the things you want to machine determines pretty much what can be done, as you would know. My close friend has both optimum and seig lathes and 2.7 seig mill, ( and many larger machines), which I have used on a couple of occasions. I was ambivalent towards the seig and optimum machines and would recommend you make a trip down to Melbourne and look at them at ‘Ausee Machine Tools’  showroom before purchasing. Likewise ‘Hare and Forbes’ for hands on with Optimum stuff. When I moved to Victoria I only took my Sherline lathe and purchased the 5400 mill as I was only interested in small things, you can see a picture of what was my set up just before getting the mill on my workshop “Toolroom post, I had a 1.2 x2 metre space. Crueby demonstrates how “big” you can go on Sherline machines, but he does know them intimately and I think it would be fair to say he takes them to their maximum envelope. If you are only contemplating rather small work I can say I am completely satisfied with Sherlines. They are very expensive relative to Seig machines twice their size. I got both lathe and mill with upgrade C5 bearings and ER 16 headstocks as all chucks are available with the er16 21x1.5 mm thread. My suggestion is, think hard about the size of things you are going to machine, do you want any sort of portability, (Sometimes I take my Sherline out to the back verandah on cold days and work in the warm sun, can’t do that with bigger machines. All boils down to budget and sizes really. Regards, Paul Gough.

[Jo]

My experiences of SEIG products is that they should be considered to be a cheap casting set that has been roughly assembled and needs finishing off. Be prepared to throw a few bits away (mainly bearings) and replace them and to get someone to do some machining to sort out the features you find e.g. like my SEIG 3's tailstock is out of line with the headstock  and I recall Eric had to re-machine the dovetails under the bed on one of their milling machines as it was all over the place  The SEIG factory seems to have more Friday afternoon's than monday mornings 

If you want a reasonable retirement table top set up then I too would recommend you have a look at what Crueby does with his Sherlines.

And get yourself a CAD system so you can do some virtual assembly/machining, without the need to house what you have made.

Jo

[Jasonb]

I must have got lucky with my three, maybe midweek specials

But as I said all capable of making models with no real issues, 59 and counting

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzm1mS9LyjyIjTMgRVJXfOuN7fG9ydS4f&si=hS6gJ1eg3S3B8NWN

All  the milling done on SIEG machines, with the majority on the Manual X3. Lathe is similar to the optimum/hare & Forbes imported machines being out of the Weiss factory.

[PaulR]

I would still like to have a small bench lathe and drill/mill and have been looking online at the SEIG products and asking if any member has experience of this brand. I would also welcome any suggestions. I propose to set up a bench in the garage so space will be at a premium.

I bought a small Seig lathe (SC2) in December. I had an issue with the electronics within a month or so (faulty pot) but that was quickly resolved by the UK supplier (Arc Eurotrade) who I found really helpful and efficient. I've made half a dozen small models so far this year using just this lathe and a wonky pillar drill. It fits nicely in my garage corner workshop as per the photo (as you see it has to share space with timber and tile storage!) I don't really have space for a milling machine so I might buy a vertical slide in the near future. I also have a 'dirty' bench to the right with grinder, bench vice, files and materials store. I don't have a window so have to rely on fluorescent and LED lighting which I find a bit depressing... when weather allows I leave the side door open to let in natural light, air and wasps 

I've found the lathe to be pleasant to use and accurate enough for my needs. I never take cuts above 10 thou, mostly around 5 thou so I can't say how good or otherwise it would be if you wanted to take heavier roughing cuts. Drilling up to 10mm with the supplied chuck is fine. I removed the annoying perspec cover but left the arm which stays in the down position enabling the circuit. I made a perspex cover to fit to the front of the saddle to protect the ways. I think I should probably bolt it down to the work surface but I've been waiting to make sure it's in the right place before I take that step.

Biggest downside until you get used to it is changing chucks as the gap to fit the nuts is impossibly small for adult fingers! I loctided studs into my two chucks and made a little tool like an Allen key with an extremely short end (basically a rod with a little bend at the end) which, with practice, allows me to offer the nuts up to the studs and start them with the end of a finger quite quickly. I also made a crude sloping board with a lip at the front to protect the ways when changing chucks and ensure that the nuts roll to the front of the machine when undone but don't end up on the floor!

The red paint on the cover is chipping slightly and the various stickers look like they were applied by a "blind man on a galloping 'oss" as we say in this part of the world. I don't know how to use the leadscrew so I can't comment on that. I recently nipped up the gibs on the slides as there was a tiny amount of play developing. I found the supplied dead centre would sometimes stick in the tailstock tube but that was easily fixed by screwing a short stub into the end of the taper. Some of the supplied accessories were a bit roughly finished but were easily made more finger friendly. I daresay these generic parts are made in various places with varying levels of care, the same as many of the other tools we buy.

The brushless motor with variable speed control is a godsend compared to the mini lathe I owned about 20 years ago and the tedious belt changing when I owned a small Myford.

Many will disparage lathes that are made in the far east but I needed something compact and affordable with metric scales (which I find easier to work with). I could have taken a chance on an old secondhand lathe but would have to put up with the inconvenience of manual speed control, probably imperial dials, a larger footprint and the possibility that I'd buy a pig in a poke as I don't have the experience to spot faults and signs of wear that aren't obvious.

After 7 months of ownership, overall I'm very happy with the machine; it does what I need, fits in the space available and is well backed-up by the supplier. Hope that helps!

[paul gough]

After a prompt, I thought I should make the context of my comments more precise. Australia effectively has only Seig and Optimum machines readily available from importers. There are European table top machines but the prices are very high and limited accessories. I wanted accuracy out of the box, so to speak, and also access to certain accessories that were in proportion to the equipment, ie specifically designed for use with that equipment. So purchased Sherline machines and accessories direct from US thus had to pay the price, more or less double the US pricing, ie worthless A$, courier & GST.
I mostly use brass with a little bronze & mild steel. Regarding current set up in garage, My machines are on a table 2 metres long and my “fitting/assembly” table is the same. All could be accommodated in a shorter space if I had to. I find the more ancient one becomes the smaller the project the better, easier to handle with the caveat that you have set up excellent lighting and got a couple of magnifiers and I would suggest good quality Optivisors from US and a pair of Eschenbach clip on magnifiers for spectacles. Light and sight being of paramount importance for those wanting to continue with table top machining and fitting into advanced age. Regards, Paul Gough.

[Sanjay F]

I had both a Sieg lathe and mill and was very happy with both - as Jo mentioned there are some bits which are not so good and if you look there are many improvements which can be made. I kind of regret getting rid of the lathe after I did all the improvements but needed the space

Here's a good Youtube video showing what can be done: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVkWQLbPo60" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVkWQLbPo60</a>

[PaulR]

One thing I forgot to mention on the SC2 lathe: the speed pot is very near the chuck so it's easy to inadvertently brush it with your arm. After doing this twice (fortunately with no harm done to me or anything else) I had to get into the routine of using the kill switch whenever I am messing around in that area. That's one of the disadvantages/dangers of removing the perspex shield. Here you can see what I mean as well as the small gap between spindle and headstock and the wrinkly labels along with my wooden nut catcher, perspex protector and nut jiggler!

[Jasonb]

Having had a flanged spindle on my previous Emco and also quite slim fingers I've got used to getting at the nuts over the last 35years. Only the larger diameter of a faceplate needs a pair of long nosed pliers.

I have just had one of the "big bore" imported machines in to test and one advantage of that is the flange is 125mm dia and sticks up a little above the headstock so access to the nuts is easy. At 210mm they are a bit bigger than a typical 7x## minilathe or SC3 but not that much.

Also had an Electronic Lead Screw ELS as standard which I was very impressed with. If you did go down the Sherline route as they don't come with power feed or screwcutting an ELS would be a good addition and the parts are not that expensive. You can also get kits with all the bits to convert the Weiss machines which should also fit the Optimum range.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB7MaCHxQQ0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB7MaCHxQQ0</a>

[RReid]

If space is very limited then also look at the Sherline products

Or alternatively, the Taig Tools lathe and mill. Have done steam, air, Stirling, and IC engines on mine, in a one car garage occupied also by one car.

[vtsteam]

Biggest downside until you get used to it is changing chucks as the gap to fit the nuts is impossibly small for adult fingers!

I don't have a Sieg, but I built my lathe around one of their spindles, and so have the flanged spindle mount. After building the lathe to a usable state, I fitted a faceplate to mine, and as a later temporary measure, simply bolted a chuck to the faceplate with ordinary hex-headed bolts from the back.

That "temporary" dodge has persisted for the last half decade. It's much easier to change flange type chucks quickly with bolts through the faceplate, than mounting a chuck to the old flange with socket head cap screws. And very fast to center a chuck perfectly by finger-tightening the bolts and tapping the chuck body with a wooden mallet. An indicator on a piece of round stock held in the jaws gets the job done for a 3 jaw. Or, for a 4 jaw, I just indicate the outside of the chuck itself.

A  faceplate with a recess cut into it for the spindle flange won't move the work outboard very much compared to a similar chuck backplate. So I don't feel I've lost much bed length.

One final advantage, by simply removing the chuck for faceplate work (or between centers work for maximum length) the faceplate is already mounted (and the center fits into the intended taper).

I actually did eventually make a proper backplate for my 4 jaw chuck. But the faceplate mounting method was so handy and well liked, that my backplate lies in a drawer under other more favored accessories with a thin dusting of rust on it, basically just taking up space as an excuse so I can pretend to have done things properly in the end, and tell visitors that the faceplate mounted chuck is merely a "temporary" expedient! 

[crueby]

The Sherline is quite capable, though being small its not as rigid as a larger machine so you may need to nibble rather than tear off huge chunks, but you get there in the end. Mine have gotten a LOT of use over the years, and I've upgraded to some of their larger versions (longer bed, taller column versions) since I have started doing much larger models (often larger than the lathe). They do need a little tweaking now and then, but I've not seen the issues with rough/misaligned castings like many report on the common Chinese clones. Only failures I've had were I wore out one motor after a couple decades, and had one power switch toggle snap off after about 25 years. Sherline sent me a new switch free. Never had any electronics failures, and I do like that the speed knob can be left in any position when turning the main switch off/on, unlike some of the other brands. For small work, great machine. It loves to turn/mill brass especially, though I do also use lots of 303 stainless steel. I went to 3/8" insert tooling on the lathe with a quick change toolpost, all aftermarket.
Chris

[PaulR]

Biggest downside until you get used to it is changing chucks as the gap to fit the nuts is impossibly small for adult fingers!

I don't have a Sieg, but I built my lathe around one of their spindles, and so have the flanged spindle mount. After building the lathe to a usable state, I fitted a faceplate to mine, and as a later temporary measure, simply bolted a chuck to the faceplate with ordinary hex-headed bolts from the back.

That's a neat trick!

[vtsteam]

Thanks Paul, I like it.

I should have said, though that this is only worthwhile if your chuck is somewhat bigger in diameter than the spindle flange. If it's one of the chucks that comes with the smallest Sieg, it might not be possible to do. If you went to a larger chuck, then it might be do-able -- obviously the chuck needs to be large enough for its outer bolt pattern to clear the spindle flange and reach the slots of a faceplate. Since I built my own lathe, I was able to put a chuck of any size I chose on it. But a stock purchased lathe and chuck might not have this capability.

[Zephyrin]

Even though larger machines are preferable, keep in mind that over the years, mounting an heavy divider on the milling machine table can become too much of a chore...yes, it's true.

Fortunately, I still get a lot of enjoyment out of my little Sakai 210 mill, drill & lathe... I would like a little more space on the workbench, but this setup allows me to spend hours in this small workshop. There are plenty of other solutions with this size of equipment, Toyo, Emco Unimat3, 4, UnimatSL; Sherline lathes & mills... not always cheaper, but all capable of building models from stock or castings.

[steamer]

To say nothing of Sherline.  They are small...but they are mighty!..    Ask Chris!

[Robert Hornby]

Thank you ladies and gentlemen for all your replies to my question. They have been of great help and I will take on board all of the suggestions and comments. I probably will not make any more steam models but just small bibs and bobs stuff. I have made quite a few gear stick knobs these past couple of years, mainly for Jaguars but other cars too, so a small lathe will do the trick. It will not be for a while just yet as we have to sell our present house. I propose to leave the converted bedroom as a workshop as we have 3 other bedrooms. All the larger equipment will have to be sold off which will be a little sad for me, but I have to move on.

[Robert Hornby]

Still looking for a table lathe and curious why Proxxon PD400 lathe states 85mm swing and 58mm height over cross slide. shouldn't the swing be 118mm ?

[uuu]

As I understand it, the Proxxon PD400 lathe comes with a 100mm diameter chuck.  So when they describe the "swing" as being 85mm, perhaps they mean the centre height - otherwise the chuck would hit the bed!   So the maximum diameter workpiece, to clear the bed, would be 170mm.   And then 58mm centre height over the saddle = 116mm maximum diameter at this point.

I've never seen one of these lathes - just extrapolating from the chuck size.  So a check from an owner would be valuable.

Wilf

[Thor]

Yes, the Proxxon PD400 has a centre height of 85mm and can turn a 400mm long rod between centres.
There is a downloadable manual here: https://www.manualslib.com/manual/3459089/Proxxon-Pd-400.html?page=7#manual

Thor

[Roger B]

There is a write up on the PD400 here:

https://thehobbyistmachineshop.com/cms/workshop/proxxon-pd400-lathe/section-1