Frisbie

[PaulR]

A couple of decades ago I came across this toy engine and a descendant of the designer very kindly sent me copies of the incomplete original drawings. I've always fancied building something with a similar mechanism (without potential for shrapnel wounds from the safety-valve-free boiler!) but I have to admit I don't quite understand it. I think the double acting cylinder is fixed, taking steam directly from the boiler below, and the 'valve plate' rocks to exhaust steam - sort of a negative version of a wobbler!

What's confusing me is the valve rod guide, surely that can't be a close-fitting hole... can it??

I've collected photos of several examples from auction sites which I can post but I can't post the original drawings.

[crueby]

Neat looking engine!  I would say that guide hole is loose fit since the rod rocks, so does the plate at its end.

[Kim]

That IS a fascinating (if somewhat scary) engine.  Very interesting!

Kim

[CI]

My dad built that Frisbie replica in the top photo.
Dad's was a barstock build.
Unfortunately he gave it away to some unknown party, so I just have a few photos.

There was an article in Live Steam magazine about a cast Frisbie.
I will see if I can find that.
Perhaps I can post a piece of that article.

I recall looking at the photos, and not really understanding how it worked myself.

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[CI]

1st Part was in Live Steam, March/April, 1999, by Birk Peterson.
Part 4 was Nov/Dec, 1999.

Here is a sample from that article.

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[CI]

I discovered that they also made vertical Frisbies ("vertical" probably not being the correct term").

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[CI]

Here are the sketches that my dad came up with for his Frisbie.
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[CI]

A few more of dad's photos.
I guess the cylinder is bolted solid, and the plate rotates.
Steam must come up from the boiler somehow to the steam ports.

Edit:
Looks like there is a steam passage drilled upwards from the boiler into the cylinder support, and a horizontal passage connecting the two lower ports.
So the upper ports would be exhaust ports.

The boiler needs a safety valve on it somewhere, even if it is just a toy boiler (in my opinion).

It does seem like the hole in the guide for the valve rod would need to be relieved; sort of like drill the hole, and then tilt the drill bit up and down.
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[PaulR]

My dad built that Frisbie replica in the top photo.
Dad's was a barstock build.
Unfortunately he gave it away to some unknown party, so I just have a few photos.

There was an article in Live Steam magazine about a cast Frisbie.
I will see if I can find that.
Perhaps I can post a piece of that article.

I recall looking at the photos, and not really understanding how it worked myself.

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Thanks for all the photos, drawings and info, that's much clearer now! Yes, there was a Frisbie #1 and #2.

Seems it's as I thought, a wobbler with a moving valve plate instead of an oscillating cylinder. I suppose a slot would serve to guide the rod rather than an oddly shaped hole? EDIT: No, that obviously wouldn't work as it's acting as a fulcrum 

I built a miniature wobbler mounted on top of a tiny boiler and that has no safety valve but after seeing this photo of what looks like a Frisbie blown up, I think I'll just admire it as a static display piece in future!!

[CI]

When I was growing up, I had basically no parental supervision, and so when I was five, I fired up my brother's Wilesco steam plant, and ran it until it went dry.
The solder gave way first at the whistle, which I guess is what saved me.
I somehow saw the steam coming at me, and closed my eyes just before it hit.
I got scalded, but was otherwise ok.

My brother's Wilescos had a safety valve, but nothing to prevent low water, and no water gauge.
One of the later Wilescos I saw had a glass end on the boiler.

I did all sorts of dangerous things as a kid, and I am not sure why I am still on this earth.
We broke open light switches to get the mercury, and would play around with it all day.
We played with the asbestos sheet that my dad had in the shop; cutting it and making things from it.
We would wander up to the railroad tracks, and play around as the trains passed, putting pennies on the tracks.
They were building an expressway nearby, and we would climb down into unsupported excavations that were at least 20 feet deep, with a vertical wall.
We climbed down into the deep holes that were excavated in the street to repair pipes, and they were never supported.
We climbed down in the stormwater pipes around the neighborhood, and built forts, and also used them for transportation, since they crossed under roadways, etc.
The list goes on.....as I mentioned, I have no idea why I survived my childhood.
The parents would call us home when the sun went down, and always asked "were you safe today?".
LOL, they would have had a heart attack if they only knew.  We were professional liars.

I complain a lot about what I consider excessive OSHA rules these days, mainly because some of the safety gear is so combersome as to be dangerous, but OSHA has saved a lot of people, especially with those large plastic mushroom caps that are required on the ends of rebar in trenches, and similar things.

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[PaulR]

I did all sorts of dangerous things as a kid, and I am not sure why I am still on this earth...

I did pretty much all of those too and others...

Jumping on and off flat wagons as trains pulled away from signals, shooting television CRTs and railway detonators, lots of what they now call 'wild swimming' in dirty and dangerous waters, plugging home made electrical circuits into the mains, building tree-houses at ridiculous heights, playing on the nearby motorway during construction and taking dumper trucks for a spin, and electrocuting myself on a lamp-post into which a car had crashed on the first day of the school holidays! I guess the biggest fib I told my parents was as an 11 year old when I said I'd been down the lane playing all day when I'd actually been in the engine shed at Bristol railway station about 100 miles from home!

[Admiral_dk]

The Wobler (Cylinder + Spring) is the Safety-Valve in itself !!!

Any chance this arrangement work somewhat similar ?

But it should have the Soft-Solder Safety too - for when running dry ...!!!

Would LOVE to see a proper drawing of the Valve-system, where you can see the Steampassages too ....

Per             

[PaulR]

I found this picture showing the large channel for steam to leave the boiler.

Maybe it joins the threaded part that secures the engine to the boiler 'lid'?

[Jasonb]

I'll have to have a closer look a bit later.

But on a couple of engines I have made where a rod needs to be able to pivot it a hole then it is first drilled to close to the rod size and then either side tapered, this can be done with a taper reamer (angle to suit how much rod movement there is) or for something like this quite possibly just come in from each side with a ctr drill.

As Admiral says if the pressure gets too high in the boiler then th evalve simply lifts off teh port face, same as the cylinder lifts off on a wobbler.

[CI]

My mother-in-law had a pressure cooker she used frequently, and the safety valve clogged with a bit of meat.
Blew the lid off, and blew stew all over the ceiling.
Luckily she was not standing immediately next to it when the lid came off, and luckily the side did not give out like Mt. St. Helen.

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