Galloway 1/3 scale engine build

[AZDesert]

This is my first post here about my 1/3 scale Galloway Hit and Miss engine build project.  I will post some pictures of my progress so far and maybe a few questions for anyone out there that can comment to help me work out some details..

I started out with the base unit getting the top and bottom flat and parallel.  Then made the mounting feet and made the pockets for them to fit in. I have made pretty good progress thru the small parts.  I am currently working in the carburetor and wondering what is the best way to make the 45 degree needle valve seat.  It is very tight space and I am not sure what kind of tooling would work best to do this without damaging the rest of the bore needed for threads. 

I see another older thread that walks thru the same engine build but is there anyone else that had built one of these recently?  It is casting kit from Ministeam that I am doing.

[Sanjay F]

Good luck with the build, its' a good looking engine and I'll be following along 

[crueby]

The parts so far look great! I've never  built a hit n miss, but love watching them run. Will be following  along...   

[Jasonb]

Off to a good start, probably my thread you mention.

Of the several Lunkenheimer mixers that I have made I have always done the seat with a very small boring bar. Set the topslide over to 45degrees but have the bar set along the lathe axis or slightly angled to clear the threaded opening.

[AZDesert]

Yes Jason,  That is the thread that i have been using as a guide thru this project.  One other question I have for the carb is the hole/thread size for what i assume is the air intake port.  In the attached picture it shows on the right hand side of the carb body a 1/16 -27 NPT fitting.  It appears to be much bigger than that, more like a 3/8.  Is this mislabeled or am i reading something wrong?   The 1/16 size looks like it should be for the fuel line intake.  Thanks.

[rklopp]

The OD of 1/16 pipe is 5/16". The nominal size is 1/16, but that has nothing to do with reality. Likewise, 1/8" pipe is 0.405".

[Jasonb]

Drill it letter C or 0.242". If you compare that to the 1/4" threads on the other side it's right.

[gbritnell]

When Ministeam bought the rights to the Galloway series of engines, the patterns and drawings they hired me to build one of each scale. The original drawings that had been drawn by Richard Shelly were in need of updating so I redrew all of them except the 1/8 scale. Those were done by Bob Nawa. If you have any questions along the way I'd be happy to answer them. The most sensitive part of the carb is getting the fuel valve sealed. Not the needle valve. The fuel valve sits on its seat. The passage from the needle valve is drilled into the seat. When the engine is on the intake stroke the vacuum draws the valve off of the seat and allows the air to flow and draw fuel from the needle valve. The reason for this valve is because the fuel tank is mounted higher than the carb so it prevents the fuel from leaking into the carb when there is no vacuum signal. The stop insert above the valve limits the valve travel.  It doesn't need much travel to operate properly.  The spring on the bottom of the valve only needs to be strong enough to reseat the valve.  Sometimes it takes a little playing with this spring to get it just right. When Bob Nawa built the 1/8 scale engine he made the Lunkenhiemer carb for it. Very small!

[AZDesert]

A question for those who have been thru a build like this.  I am starting on the piston and cylinder for the this engine.  Included with the kit from MiniSteam is a piece of round stock CRS for the cylinder.  I have not worked with this before and as I am trying to turn it on the lathe using a carbide insert I am not getting a smooth surface.  Any advice from the group on how to turn this piece accurately?    It is about 2.4" in diameter and I was using an RPM of about 560.  Thanks for any help.

[Jasonb]

Mine came with a piece of continuously cast iron.

You don't say what inserts you are using bit it is worth trying those intended for Non Ferrous metals, not that familiar with the US code system but the ISO designation has GT instead of MT so a typical insert would be CCGT 060202 as opposed to CCMT 060202

[AZDesert]

I am making some more progress on my Galloway build.  For the previous problem I was having making the cylinder sleeve I replaced the Carbide insert and increased the speed on the lathe an that seemed to take care of the issue.  Nice, smooth surface now.  I am just about ready to press the cylinder into the block and started on bearing blocks for the crankshaft.  I also completed the piston, rod and bearing assembly.  Here are a few pictures along the way.  I am a bit nervous about pressing the sleeve into the block.  I have the recommended .0016 oversize on the mating surface of the sleeve and I made a slight angle on the entry point on the block to help it get started correctly.  I don't have a press so am thinking about talking to a local machine shop to see if they could press it in for me.  Any recommendation or tips to make sure it goes smoothly?

[AZDesert]

Pic 2

[AZDesert]

Pic 3

[AZDesert]

Pic 4

[kuhncw]

Nice work.  My opinion/suggestion:  Make the liner a close slip fit into the cylinder block and seal it in with Loctite 609 or similar.

 I built a 1/4 Galloway this way.

Chuck

[john mills]

nothing wrong with a press fit used to fit sleeves to full size engine blocks 3 or 4" dia thin wall they were ground on the out side   only light interference
.001"-.0015 never saw one shift
john

[Jasonb]

I went with Loctite 648 on mine and have do that on all the other IC engines with separate liners that I have made.

[maury]

Nice looking work on the Galloway.
an idea for inserting the liner into the water jacket. If you have the Dims you say,
it should work well, I have done this numerous times.

Heat the water jacket to 450 deg F in an oven, and if you feel insecure, drop the liner into the freezer
for a while. Then, just drop the liner into the water jacket and let it cool.
maury

[AZDesert]

An update on my project progress.  I took the advice given for pressing in the cylinder sleeve and heated the block, froze the sleeve with dry ice and it pressed together very nicely!   A little of the loctite 648 and it is done.  Thank you for the tips.  I have also mounted the sleeve into the base and fixed it in place with some set screws and some more of the loctite.  I then did a test fit of the piston and crankshaft.  Some additional small parts progress was to make the crank bearing grease cups, valves and machined the head for valves and air intake/exhaust.  I also drilled and tapped the holes for the head bolt mounting studs,  My mill is not tall enough to do this so I had to mount the assembly in a vise on my drill press and very carefully located the hole positions and drilled them out.

One hiccup that i encountered was while drilling the piston oil hole under the drip oiler i managed to break my 1/16" drill bit in the hole!  Any thoughts on how to get it out without damaging anything?

Next up is the ignitor assembly.  That looks a bit daunting!  Does anyone have any good detailed pictures of this unit and how you made it? 

[Jasonb]

This covers building mine

https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,2160.msg50252.html#msg50252

[Kim]

One hiccup that i encountered was while drilling the piston oil hole under the drip oiler i managed to break my 1/16" drill bit in the hole!  Any thoughts on how to get it out without damaging anything?

This is a tough one.  If you can't get it out, one thing I've done is to use a small end mill and mill some around the broken bit. Once I got it out, I made a larger hole and plugged it.  This can work if you're going to paint it.

If the broken bit is deep inside, you can just leave it there and drill the hole in a different place.

I'm sure others have better ideas.

Let us know how you resolve it.
Kim

[crueby]

The  way I have  done it is to use a small carbide or diamond coated bur in a rotary tool to grind away the center of the broken drill bit, then the flutes can be pulled out. Takes very small bits.

[gbritnell]

I don't have many build pictures of the igniter but really can't add anything more that what Jason posted. I do have a couple of finished pictures of the igniter.

[Jasonb]

I found one more of mine and a few of an original

[AZDesert]

Thank you for the advice on the ignitor and additional pictures.  That really helped me understand how to build it.  It is coming along, although mine may not be as pretty as the ones you have made, I think it will work.  I will post some pictures once I get it completed.

[AZDesert]

I will post a few more pictures of my recent progress and I have  a question or two for the group.  I finally braved drilling the fuel control needle valve hole in the carb and it actually came out really nice and I hit the valve seat location ok.  Nearing completion of the ignitor, just need to finish soldering the tungsten contact point in place and some adjustments to clean up a few issues.  Any recommendations on soldering the Tungsten, what kind of flux should I use?
Another question is about placement of the trip lever on the push rod.  I have check and rechecked my dimensions on where i made the slot for the trip lever at 6.474" from the cam roller center line.  As you can see in the pictures the slot is too far forward by about 0.4 inches.  I have seen some comments where some dimensions in the drawings are wrong, would this be one of them.  Should I just extend the existing slot or make a second one? Have any of you had a similar issue.  It seems like I need about 0.33 inches of travel on the push rod to activate the ignitor and open the exhaust valve,  Does that seem about right?  I could also remake the whole push rod if needed.
Thanks for your help again!

[Jasonb]

I don't remember there being a problem with mine but will measure it a bit later. George's set of drawings are better than the old ones.

Saying you need it about 0.4" back is very close to the spacing of the two holes at the cam end, did you measure off the correct hole and to ctr of the slot?

[AZDesert]

It is probably a little bit early for this but I wanted to start thinking about final paint for my project.  For those that have built one what did you use for paint and color.  Is there a standard color out there or a formula to mix the right red?  I have some epoxy primer left over from a pickup restoration project that I am planning to use.

Thanks!

[Jasonb]

Dupont 8554

I used to have a link to a list of all the old engine colours but not able to get into it.

http://www.oldengine.org/members/shpclub/tid002.htm

EDIT still available here

https://web.archive.org/web/20180712110405/http://www.oldengine.org/members/shpclub/tid002.htm

[gbritnell]

Going back to Jason's reply #26. Did you ever get the pushrod holes sorted out?  The reason I ask is because I redrew the drawings and hadn't heard of any issues.

[Jasonb]

Thanks for the reminder. Just been and measured mine and it is to George's drawing 6.474" from cam follower stud to middle of slot

[AZDesert]

I have not totally solved that yet but I think the main problem is I need a little more clearance on the valve rocker arm bracket to allow more movement of the arm which will let the push rod come back further.  This should allow the slot for the trip lever to align better.  I may need to make some slight adjustments to the trip arm and ignitor when I am ready to actually set the timing to get it just right.
I recently made a low tension coil and tested the ignitor and it seemed to work well, however I have not yet soldered the tungsten tips on.  I have read that brazing is the best way to attach them.  Any advice for this process.  The tiny little piece that goes on the ignitor arm seems like it could be difficult to braze in place.

Thank,

[Jasonb]

I used silver solder.

Solder the arm onto the end of a tig electrode then cut it off with a dremel sheel and grind to final shape. No little discs of TC to hold if done that way.

[gbritnell]

I think what Jason meant was Dremel grinder with a diamond or abrasive disc. .03-.05 thick carbide button will last forever.
Here's another trick you can try.  Chuck the piece of Tungsten rod in the lathe. (COVER THE WAYS) Using the Dremel grinder a little stem on the carbide rod.  .06 long is more than enough.  Drill a hole in the arm to match the diameter of the stem. When you silver solder it it will keep it aligned.

[AZDesert]

Thanks for the ideas on the tungsten.  I will give that a try.  Here is a picture of the coil I made.  I added a little switch so i can turn it on/off.  Did a quick test and got a decent spark.

[AZDesert]

Some questions about assembly of the engine.  I have everything primed (except the flywheels) and want to assemble it and maybe even do a test run before I do final color paint.

Any recommendations on what to use for a gasket for the head and ignitor?  Assuming I want something to help seal these so I don't have leaks.

For the finish paint I took the color codes that were given above to my local automotive paint store and they were not able to match them to anything close to the red.  Any other recommendations to help find the right red?

Timing set up.  When looking at the positioning of the Cam lobs relative to valve movement I am seeing when the lower lobes push the rod forward the rocker arm is just touching the exhaust valve.  It seems that there should be a little bit of clearance between the arm and valve stem as those lower lobes rotate and then are should engage the valve stem to open it when the upper lobes push the rod forward. 

Any other watch outs to be aware of when assembling the engine?

Thanks to all for your help.

[cnr6400]

Just a thought re paint match - if you have a sample of the colour you want, you can take it to a good name brand house paint store and they can read it with a photometer and give you a "recipe". I've done this with a few parts with a local Sherwin-Williams paint place and their "recipe" was a very close match. Good luck!

[gbritnell]

https://www.mcmaster.com/product/9402K21
I use this for head gaskets on all my engines. It works great

[Jasonb]

I can't see that without logging in but I just use a liquid gasket on all my engines be they IC or steam.

You want a thou or two of "lash" clearance between the rocker and valve. The clevis on the end of the push rod should give some adjustment of the gap.

[Dave Otto]

I can't see that without logging in but I just use a liquid gasket on all my engines be they IC or steam.

You want a thou or two of "lash" clearance between the rocker and valve. The clevis on the end of the push rod should give some adjustment of the gap.

Just search McMaster 9402k21

[internal_fire]

McMaster is somewhat notorious for refusing to ship outside the US, but that material is made in Austria, so it is probably available everywhere.

Gene

[Art K]

Jason,
Funny enough the link didn't work for me but google McMaster Carr going to the website typing the part number into the search gave joy. I have been using.015 PTFE sheet. It can get in almost any size.
Art

[AZDesert]

Making some good progress again on the engine.  I finally made it back to the farm and was able to use my dad's lathe to clean up the flywheels and get them ready.  My lathe is a little to small to handle them.  Once I got back home I was able to mount the governor and make it's spring.  The next step is to cut the keyway slots.  I was also able to assemble the fuel tank and start to think about how to mount it.  Getting close to being able to try to fire it up and see if it will run!

[CI]

Looking good !

.

[AZDesert]

Moving a little closer to being done with the Galloway engine.  I took some inspiration from the cart that Jason built in his post and came up with my own version of a cart.  Rather than build my own wheels i am purchasing some antique cast iron wheels that I will clean up and use for this project.  Since my last post i have finished the fuel tank and mounted it and got a fuel line hooked up to the carburetor.   I have not started the engine yet but getting close!

[AZDesert]

Looking for a little help from the group.  I am trying to start my engine for the first time and having trouble.  It seems like I am not getting very good compression.  As I manually spin the flywheels i feel very little back pressure when it comes around on the compression stroke.  I have checked the valves and valve seats and used some lapping compound to help to seat them.  It looks pretty good but i can still feel some pressure leak out of both valves as the piston moves forward in the compression stroke and also some air is being sucked in thru the exhaust valve on the intake stroke.  I remade the exhaust valve spring so it is very firm.  I have not checked the clearance between the piston and cylinder sleeve.  What would be an acceptable clearance here?

I have checked the ignitor function and have a good spark.
Timing is set to fire just before Top Dead Center.
The fuel system seems to be working OK although my ability to adjust fuel flow seems to be pretty much just off or on.  Is that normal?

An other advice on adjustments or settings?

Thanks.

[CI]

I have seen some use very coarse valve grinding compound, which does not work.
The valve grinding compound should be at least 600 grit.

.

[Jasonb]

As Pat says the automtive paste often sold in tins of two grits is far too coarse, get some 600grit silicon carbide powder off ebay and mix with some oil into a paste. Beware going too hard with the exhaust spring as it takes energy to close it every cycle so you will get less freewheeling between hits.

With the aluminium piston you want a bit mor eclearance than steel but it is the rings that should be doing the sealing nothing really to do with piston clearance. You should bet a good bounce back when the flywheels are flicked against compression but if the inlet is held open the engine should turn freely. I'll video mine later.

[gbritnell]

In my experience 90% of engines with weak compression are the result of poor sealing valves. I'm considering that the bore and ring fit is good. I have a box full of tapered brass adapters thar I wring into the ports on my engines then hook up a vacuum gauge and test the valve sealing. I know it's a lot of work but you could pull the head off and make a blank plate to bolt in it's place to at least check the piston/ring sealing.

[Jasonb]

Easier to fit a couple of threaded plugs into the inlet and exhaust tappings in the head.

Also make sure you are not leaking past the insulators on the ignitor

[AZDesert]

Thanks for all the advice.  I have found a source for some 600 grit silicon carbide so will try that on the valves and see if it helps.

[AZDesert]

I saw in one of the comments above about checking for compression leaking from the ignitor.  I seem to have addressed the compression problem by cleaning up the valve seats as suggested and i ended up remaking my piston to have tighter tolerance and it now seems pretty good.  Now that I have better compression i am seeing some leakage around the shaft that pivots on the ignitor.  How do I stop that?  I am assuming that i have too much gap around the shaft so thinking i need to remake the shaft to be as tight as possible to fit in the hole and still pivot?

[gbritnell]

For those of us that came from steam to I.C. the machining and tolerances need to be more exacting.  I'm not saying that you would build a sloppy steam engine but clearances can be a little greater and the engine will still operate.  With an I.C. engines you have to check fits as you go otherwise, as you're finding out,  there's a lot of backtracking. For model engines i make my piston to bore clearance about .0015. The rings, not the piston should do the sealing.

[Jasonb]

I have made ignitors where the design included a small O ring to seal the shaft, otherwise it is just as close a fit as possible. You probably will see a little leakage when turning over slowly by hand but such a small amount should not make a lot of difference when the engine is turning over. Just make sure it is only a small amount not a large leak.

As I said earlier and George has just said the rings should be doing the sealing. With the Galloway having an aluminium piston you need some room for that to expand as the engine heats up. If it were an iron piston then clearances can be reduced as there is less chance of the piston expanding and seizing in the bore

[Dave Otto]

It is customary to lap the sealing surface where the moveable electrode contacts the ignitor body. On some ignitors this surface is tapered like on an intake or exhaust valve.
As Jason has indicated, ignitors usually require cumbustion pressure for fully seal.

Dave

[AZDesert]

Again, thanks for all of the advice.  This is my first time building anything like this so I am learning a lot as I go and finding and fixing my mistakes along the way.  I did get it to run a little bit today but it would not sustain for more than 10 seconds or so. I think i have some issues with fuel metering so looking into that some more.  I will add more updates as I go.

[AZDesert]

Thought I would share a bit of success with the group.  Here is a little video of the first start and sustained run of my engine.  Also a better shot of the cart I built with the wheels installed.  Even though it ran here for a little bit I am still having some issues with the fuel metering.  In order for it to run the needle valve needs to be virtually all the way in.  Otherwise it seems to just flood the cylinder with fuel.  The spring that I have on the fuel valve is pretty light, should I try for a stiffer spring?  I lapped that valve and seat just like the intake and exhaust and i feel there is a pretty good seal when it is closed.  Any other adjustments or tricks to regulate the fuel?  I feel like I have a pretty good contact of the needle valve point and the hole going the air stream.

Thanks guys for all your advice,
Brett

[CI]

Nice !
 

[Jasonb]

I find most engines just need the needle opening a crack, if you make th eneedles with a shallower taper than drawing they are a bit less sensative.

I'd keep the bottom spring as light as possible, dome people don't even bother with the spring.

[Kim]

Congratulations!  Looks like it runs great! 

Kim

[Sanjay F]

Brilliant, nice to see it running, well done on a succesful build 

[Admiral_dk]

Great to see it run and smooth too 

Per 

[AZDesert]

An update on the engine project.  It is almost complete and running well.  I may do some of the pinstriping yet and need to mount the name plate but otherwise I think it is about done.  Mounted on the cart I built and now going to work on mounting a small ice cream machine on the cart!  I have had a lot of fun building this and learning new skills!

[CI]

Impressive work !
 

[Kim]

That's pretty cool!  A hit & miss run ice cream machine!  You'll be the hit at any party!   

Kim

[Roger B]

Splendid    It's always good to see an engine driving something   

[Sanjay F]

Beautiful and mines mint chocolate ice cream please

I'd be interested if you do the pinstriping, its something I've considered by never done, would you do this free hand or use transfers?

[AZDesert]

Well, here is what i guess will be my final update on this Galloway engine build project.  I finally got it all set up and running and made the first batch of ice cream that turned out great!  I have had a great time building it and learned so many new skills.  Things didn't always go as planned the first time around and I have had to redo a few things to make for better fit and finish but I am happy with the final result.  Here are a few pictures and videos (hopefully they will load ok) to show how it has turned out.  Now on to finding the next project!

[AZDesert]

Ice Cream video

[CI]

That is a great setup.
My uncle made a mini flat-bed pickup out of an old Crosly chasis, and we use to ride around in the back of it in the neighborhood.
It had a pully clutch like that.
Nice work !
 

[Kim]

That is super cool!  I love seeing one of our motors do something.  And how do you get better than making ice cream!   

Kim

PS  We should have an ice cream emoji! 

[RReid]

Back when I was working on developing hydrogen fuel cells, one of our projects involved building a portable system for a small private school, with the plan that it would be taken to Washington D.C., demonstrating it by powering an ice cream maker at an event in the Congressional Office Building. All went well, except that Ben & Jerry's was also there, also giving away free ice cream. Kinda stole our thunder.  I think your Galloway would have attracted a lot more attention!

At least going to the Smithsonian with the kids was fun.

[vtsteam]

I remember in the mid 80's when Ben and Jerry opened with a wooden pail ice cream maker and worked it in an old gas station in Burlington, VT. I had an office upstairs in the adjacent building.

So ya never know.... could be the start of something big! Great little engine and setup!