Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock

[Kim]

The W R Smith books are much more complete with details, and he has a few others that go into construction details. He was a really nice man we exchanged a few letters back in the day. I never got around to building one of his though..

https://wrsmithclocks.com/books/

Thanks! I do have a book or two from WR Smith, and they were some of my 'additional resources' to fill in the gaps on Wilding's book.

Thanks Roger!

Kim

[Kim]

To complete the barrel ratchet, I increased the size of the hole to 7/32” (I’d made it 3/16” to fit on one of my existing mandrels), then filed the hole square.


And here’s where it will be. On the barrel arbor.  Unfortunately, Wilding doesn’t mention how to hold the ratchet in place.  There is no set screw.  So, my plan is to Loctite it in place once I’m ready to commit to that.  Not quite yet, though!


While this may not have been clear in my photos, the barrel arbor and the barrel are not solidly fixed.  The arbor can rotate freely inside the barrel.  This ratchet, however, will keep the arbor from turning against the force of the spring.

Interestingly (at least to me), this ratchet is NOT used while winding.  During normal winding and running of the clock, this ratchet will not move.  I believe that its sole purpose in life is to provide a simpler way to unwind the spring.  If you use a square key or wrench to hold on to the arbor,  you can then release this ratchet from it’s holding pawl (or click, if you prefer) and gently unwind the spring.  This would not be an everyday occurrence, but would be important if you were going to do some work on the clock or something.

Next up will be to make some bearings for the barrel arbor.  However, I’m going to be taking a side trip here.

I just recently acquired a Die Filer kit from Martin Models.  I’m quite exited about it and will be working on that project next.  After I complete the die filer, I’ll be able to use it for all my clock part filing needs

So this thread will lie fallow for a while.  I’ll start a new thread for the die filer.

Thanks for stopping by,
Kim

[crueby]

So how is the clock wound? Is there another key and shaft on the fusee?

[Kim]

Yes, that's correct. You wind with a key on the Fusee arbor.  Turning the Fusee pulls cable onto the Fusee from the barrel, which winds the spring.

Kim

[crueby]

Slick.


Looking forward to seeing  your build of the die filer, and how it functions. Every once in a while  I think about making one.   

[RonGinger]

I have an old die filler and I think its a very valuable machine  in a model makers shop.

A couple suggestions.

Watch how you hold down a part- if the file catches it on an upstroke your finger on  the edge of  the part will be snapped down on  the next down stroke. I assure that happens and hurts a lot. My machine has an overarm with a spring finger that can be set against the part. Lots of scroll saws have similar clamps.

I changed my motor to a 3 phase with a VFD. I often want to run  the file very slow to help keep from snapping  my finger.

[Kim]

Thanks Ron!
I'm planning on putting a DC motor with speed control on the die filer, so I've got that covered.

Not sure about the hold-down.  My scroll saw has one of those, but I've removed it.  I used to cut a lot of jigsaw puzzles on the scroll saw and the hold-down would scratch the photo side of the puzzle while cutting. That wasn't good.  So I've gotten used to working without the hold down.  I know exactly what you mean about it catching and being rather painful!  But with practice, I've gotten much better at not pinching my fingers...

I'll have to think about it on the die filer.

Kim

[internal_fire]

I'll have to think about it on the die filer.

I made a die filer from the MLA castings some years ago. It is a very useful tool at times, but I highly recommend some sort of hold-down. There is much more up-force than one gets from a scroll saw. Some sort of polymer foot would minimize any scratching. (I don't bother.)

The alternative is to work very slowly and carefully.

The biggest problem with die filers is getting the files. It does not appear these things are commercially used any longer, so there is almost no availability of premade files. You can make your own, of course, but that is an extra step.

Gene

[Dave Otto]

Gary Martin use to have some files for sale but I'm not sure about that now. I have also purchased some old stock files from KBC Tools, they also show up on eBay from time to time and command a pretty good price.
I think that I have collected enough to last me a lifetime.

Dave

[bizibilder]

Hi Kim.

The rachet is held on to the square end of the arbour with a clock pin.  Nothing too special - just drill a small hole, say a little under 1/16" or 1.5mm up against the outside of the rachet when it is in place on the arbour (and everything is assembled in the frames).  Make a pin out of steel slightly larger than 1/16" diameter and file it tapered towards one end.  The pin should be about 5/8" - 3/4" long.  This is inserted into the hole and given a gentle tap with a small hammer to hold it in place.  The pin should protrude slightly from each side of the arbour square.  As this arbour never moves (except when servicing the clock) it will stay in place without trouble. As you finish the clock the pin could be trimmed to make it look neat, with roughly equal amounts protruding either side of the arbour and finally its surface and ends should be polished.

Don't whatever you do use loctite anywhere near any clock pivot or bearing - it would be a guaranteed stopper if you do!   

I've been watching this thread with interest as I make clocks myself (and have a half finished skeleton clock in the workshop). 

[Kim]

Gary Martin use to have some files for sale but I'm not sure about that now. I have also purchased some old stock files from KBC Tools, they also show up on eBay from time to time and command a pretty good price.

Yes, Gary still has a bunch of files for sale, though he said his inventory is going down and he's out of some of the shapes that are shown on his web page (those are clearly marked on his page too, BTW).  I picked up a selection of die files from him when I was getting the castings.  These files look quite robust, but I'm sure they get dull and break over time. So it's good to know there is some place where I might be able to get more die flies, should the need arise. Thanks Dave!

The rachet is held on to the square end of the arbour with a clock pin.  Nothing too special - just drill a small hole, say a little under 1/16" or 1.5mm up against the outside of the rachet when it is in place on the arbour (and everything is assembled in the frames).  Make a pin out of steel slightly larger than 1/16" diameter and file it tapered towards one end.  The pin should be about 5/8" - 3/4" long.  This is inserted into the hole and given a gentle tap with a small hammer to hold it in place.  The pin should protrude slightly from each side of the arbour square.  As this arbour never moves (except when servicing the clock) it will stay in place without trouble. As you finish the clock the pin could be trimmed to make it look neat, with roughly equal amounts protruding either side of the arbour and finally its surface and ends should be polished.

Thanks for the info!  I didn't see that in the book, but it makes a lot of sense. He does give a detailed description of this retention method for use with the dial hands, but nothing for the barrel ratchet.  This would make a lot of sense.

Don't whatever you do use loctite anywhere near any clock pivot or bearing - it would be a guaranteed stopper if you do!   

This also makes sense to me and sounds like sage advice!  Thank you!

Kim

[steamer]

Thanks Ron!
I'm planning on putting a DC motor with speed control on the die filer, so I've got that covered.

Not sure about the hold-down.  My scroll saw has one of those, but I've removed it.  I used to cut a lot of jigsaw puzzles on the scroll saw and the hold-down would scratch the photo side of the puzzle while cutting. That wasn't good.  So I've gotten used to working without the hold down.  I know exactly what you mean about it catching and being rather painful!  But with practice, I've gotten much better at not pinching my fingers...

I'll have to think about it on the die filer.

Kim

Glad to send some pics of mine.   It was a fun build! and it runs great!   I made mine as a attachment for my lathe.

https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,9115.0.html

Dave

[Kim]

Thanks Dave!
Yeah, I was looking through your die filer build just the other day!  Looking at your file support and hold down.  That's a very interesting way to do it. for sure!  Don't know if I'm going to do that yet, but it looks like it's something that could be added later if I choose to do so.

Kim

[Del_61]

The ratchet on the barrel arbor should not be loctited!

In the majority of fusee clocks the ratchet is secured by a taper pin through the arbor.

You wind a fusee clock by the square on the fusee. The square and ratchet on the barrel arbor is only used when setting up the clock by providing a pre tension on the mainspring and hence fusee line. Around 3/4 of a turn should be sufficient. This is done so when the mainspring is unwound there is still some tension on the fusee line otherwise the line will come loose and not re-engage in the grooves on the fusee when winding back up.

Hope that's clear! (as mud!!)

Regards

Derek

[Kim]

Thanks Derek!
Yes, that makes a lot of sense! 

Kim