Author Topic: Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock  (Read 8280 times)

Offline steamer

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Re: Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock
« Reply #105 on: January 19, 2025, 10:56:48 AM »
  Is there a reason that a larger diameter cutter would be better?  Seems that it must be better since commercial cutters are larger...

Kim

Probably just to give a bit more clearance from the arbor shank/bushings.  ....and perhaps standardizing on blank size for multiple tooth profile cutters on a standard arbor size.  For what you're doing it really shouldn't matter I don't think....it can be any arbor size you like!...any bushing size you need...ect.

The joys of shop made tooling!   
Never used oil on W-1.....but I don't vary much from 0-1....(drill rod....silver steel)   it does everything I ask of it.

Dave


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Online crueby

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Re: Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock
« Reply #106 on: January 19, 2025, 01:18:54 PM »
Water quenching W1 steel will tend to give a harder but more brittle result, and there is a risk of cracking on larger thin pieces since it cools it a lot faster than oil. Another option is adding a lot of salt to the water to do a brine quench, less shock than straight water. For your small cutters the water is likely  fine. Definitely  will want to temper afterwards to avoid breaking it in use.

Offline cnr6400

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Re: Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock
« Reply #107 on: January 19, 2025, 04:41:08 PM »
Agitating the quench water with some sort of stirrer or circulation pump (or just leaving the garden hose that's feeding it on during quench) will also help reduce risk of cracks during quench in hardening W series tool steels. The bigger the quench bath volume, the better, it reduces temp gradient across the bath. Just food for thought in addition to the points Chris mentioned.  :cheers:
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Offline Kim

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Re: Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock
« Reply #108 on: January 19, 2025, 08:16:33 PM »
Thanks all. 

Yes, I can see a larger diameter would give you more clearance in some situations.  But as you say, Dave, with homemade tooling and small shop projects, if it works, it works! :)  Maybe someday I'll have to try O-1. But I've got a bunch of W-1 and it seems to work for the tools I've made.

Chris, I've read about the brine bath for quenching, though I haven't tried it - I've just been using straight water (cause it's readily available :Lol:).  I may have to try the brine quench.

And you asked how I did the heat treating and I forgot to answer that. I'm just using a flame - it's simple and has worked well for me in the past.  My oven won't get hot enough to do heat treating anyway.  It's just a toaster oven.  And yes, I tempered the cutter too, though I always find that the most iffy part of the process!

Jeff, I don't have a method for keeping the water moving, but I do move the part around while quenching, and try to dunk it very quickly to prevent a large temp gradient across the part.  Don't know how effective it is, but that's my process.  :embarrassed:

Kim

Offline kvom

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Re: Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock
« Reply #109 on: January 20, 2025, 01:36:09 PM »
Do you really need to harden steel cutters that will be cutting brass?

Offline steamer

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Re: Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock
« Reply #110 on: January 20, 2025, 03:18:06 PM »
Do you really need to harden steel cutters that will be cutting brass?

Short answer....for a gear cutter   Yes

A finished polished cutter cuts a finished polished surface...and maintaining that surface really requires a hardened cutter...

Dave
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Online crueby

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Re: Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock
« Reply #111 on: January 20, 2025, 03:40:19 PM »
Do you really need to harden steel cutters that will be cutting brass?

Short answer....for a gear cutter   Yes

A finished polished cutter cuts a finished polished surface...and maintaining that surface really requires a hardened cutter...

Dave
And for a clock, the f8nish is key, any tiny amount of friction adds up through the gear train, reducing the effort imparted to the pendulum to keep it swinging.

Offline wagnmkr

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Re: Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock
« Reply #112 on: January 20, 2025, 05:36:45 PM »
Do you really need to harden steel cutters that will be cutting brass?

Short answer....for a gear cutter   Yes

A finished polished cutter cuts a finished polished surface...and maintaining that surface really requires a hardened cutter...

Dave
And for a clock, the f8nish is key, any tiny amount of friction adds up through the gear train, reducing the effort imparted to the pendulum to keep it swinging.

I'll second that!  According to the designer of the printed clocks I have made, a housefly, landing on the pendulum, could stop the whole thing!
I was cut out to be rich ... but ... I was sewn up all wrong!

Offline Charles Lamont

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Re: Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock
« Reply #113 on: January 20, 2025, 05:58:01 PM »

And for a clock, the f8nish is key, any tiny amount of friction adds up through the gear train, reducing the effort imparted to the pendulum to keep it swinging.
[/quote]

Recently I did a little caclulation on Wilding's English Regulator (8-day, long case). I made the available power at the barrel to be about 30 microwatt.

Online crueby

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Re: Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock
« Reply #114 on: January 20, 2025, 06:32:28 PM »
Saw a show several years ago about the tower clock in Big Ben, and how they put coins on the pivot for the pendulum to adjust the speed. Scaled down, a fly would be about right for a wall clock!

Offline steamer

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Re: Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock
« Reply #115 on: January 20, 2025, 06:36:38 PM »
Do you really need to harden steel cutters that will be cutting brass?

Short answer....for a gear cutter   Yes

A finished polished cutter cuts a finished polished surface...and maintaining that surface really requires a hardened cutter...

Dave
And for a clock, the f8nish is key, any tiny amount of friction adds up through the gear train, reducing the effort imparted to the pendulum to keep it swinging.

Absolutely.....which is the reason for the "Polished surface" comment.    No power to waste!
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Offline Kim

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Re: Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock
« Reply #116 on: January 20, 2025, 11:22:45 PM »
Yes, I will be polishing the gears for the clock much more than this one!  This is just a ratchet for the mainspring winder, not quite as demanding as the ones for the clock power train!

Kim

Offline Kim

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Re: Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock
« Reply #117 on: January 20, 2025, 11:28:47 PM »
I turned the blank for the ratchet wheel from 1” 12L14.  It is 1/4" wide with a 5/8” diameter hub and 3/8” reamed bore.


Then I set up the mill to make the ratchet wheel.  First, I set the center of the cutter to the center of the axis of the spindexer.   I can use the spindexer for this ratchet, since it has 12 teeth, which makes 30o per tooth.  My spindexer is only indexable to whole degrees, no minutes or seconds.  I’m going to have to use the rotary table for some of the gears. But for this part, the spindexer is sufficient.


Then I cut the first tooth.  I chose not to mess with a tailstock this time. I don’t think the accuracy of this ratchet is that critical.  It is simply to keep the spindle on the mainspring winder from going backward.  For other gears, I may set up the tailstock though.


Here’s what it looks like after cutting the first tooth.  Or at least, the first gap between teeth!  :Lol:   Turns up a pretty good burr there, but otherwise, it looks pretty good!


And, here it is after making 12 stops around the wheel:


After cleaning up of the burs on the end, it looks about right!


And the cutter doesn’t seem too much worse for the wear. I think I’m pleased.

Kim

Online crueby

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Re: Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock
« Reply #118 on: January 20, 2025, 11:31:31 PM »
Nice result!  :popcorn: :popcorn:

Offline Dave Otto

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Re: Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock
« Reply #119 on: January 21, 2025, 12:24:48 AM »
Yes, nice sequence and great photos and a good looking part!

Dave

 

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