Author Topic: Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock  (Read 103466 times)

Offline Roger B

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6789
  • Switzerland
Re: Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock
« Reply #570 on: September 25, 2025, 12:20:26 PM »
That was a rather tricky ratchet wheel, well done with your persistence  :praise2:  :praise2:  :wine1:

I like your new heat treatment oven  :)  :)
Best regards

Roger

Online Kim

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9217
  • Portland, Oregon, USA
Re: Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock
« Reply #571 on: September 25, 2025, 05:26:26 PM »
Thanks, Roger!  :cheers:

Kim

Offline bent

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1031
  • Wet side of Washington State, USA
Re: Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock
« Reply #572 on: September 26, 2025, 09:27:13 PM »
Yeah, ok, the explanation for cleanup after machining makes sense.  But, no shame on that wheel, it looks great.  At most, just some touch-up work to make the corners match.   :DrinkPint:

Online Kim

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9217
  • Portland, Oregon, USA
Re: Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock
« Reply #573 on: October 03, 2025, 10:06:45 PM »
I’ve been crossing out wheels like a madman over the last few weeks.    Well, I also cut one more gear.  When I went to cross out the Third Wheel, I discovered that I’d mistakenly entered the OD as the Pitch Diameter.  That threw everything off, and consequently, my wheel came out oversized by about 80 thou.  I tried to convince myself that I could adjust the wheel placement a little and everything would work out.  But that’s quite a bit of difference. Even though the center of the wheel would only be offset by half that amount, it still seemed like more than I wanted to deal with.  So, I bit the bullet and made another one. This time with the CORRECT OD and PD.  While it was a bit frustrating to have to re-make one of the gears, I feel much better about it now that it’s done!  :embarassed:

I didn’t show a picture of this before, but I’ve been using my nifty new die filer to clean up the crossed-out wheels.  It works very well!


And here’s the result of my work.  I’m fairly pleased with all the wheels!  The one on the right that isn't crossed out is the minute wheel, and it isn't crossed out because it will have a spring pressing against it to drive it from the center arbor.  (The spring is what lets you move the hands to set the time without moving the clock gear train.)


Now, after that whole rabbit hole with the gears and crossing out thing, I can get back to the Fusee assembly.  :Lol:
Kim

Offline Dave Otto

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5164
  • Boise, Idaho USA
    • Photo Bucket
Re: Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock
« Reply #574 on: October 03, 2025, 10:40:43 PM »
They all look very nice Kim!

Dave

Offline crueby

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 21907
  • Rochester NY
Re: Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock
« Reply #575 on: October 03, 2025, 11:52:18 PM »
Outstanding  family of wheels!  :popcorn:

Offline cnr6400

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3757
Re: Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock
« Reply #576 on: October 04, 2025, 07:10:20 PM »
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Nice work Kim, the wheels look great.  :cheers:
"I've cut that stock three times, and it's still too short!"

Online Kim

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9217
  • Portland, Oregon, USA
Re: Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock
« Reply #577 on: October 04, 2025, 11:14:26 PM »
Thanks Dave, Chris, and Jeff!  :cheers:

Kim

Offline bent

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1031
  • Wet side of Washington State, USA
Re: Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock
« Reply #578 on: October 05, 2025, 02:22:59 AM »
Oh yeah, the die filer!  That's pretty spiffy, and the results show it's a great tool.   :popcorn: :ThumbsUp:

Online Kim

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9217
  • Portland, Oregon, USA
Re: Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock
« Reply #579 on: October 06, 2025, 11:40:51 PM »
Thanks, Bent!  :cheers:

To complete the Fusee Assembly, I needed two gears – the Great Wheel and the Maintaining Ratchet.  That’s why the gear side adventure was done at this point in the program.  And with those complete, I can continue on with a half dozen other small parts that need to be made.

First is the Fusee Click.  This was made from W-1 tool steel.  I plan to harden it eventually, though I haven’t done that yet (note to self).  This part was mostly shaped on the 2” belt sander and with filing.


Next was the Fusee Click Spring.  I made this from tool steel also.  John doesn’t provide much information on how he made these parts, so this is my method.

I marked it out on the edge of a piece of 1/8” W-1 bar.


Then milled down the long skinny part.


I shaped the rounded part on the belt sander and files, then put it back in the mill to thin it down some on each side so that it would fit easily inside the cavity on the back of the fusee.


Next, I used a slitting saw to slice off the full spring.


This part felt super brittle to me.  I don’t know that it was, but I was worried that if I tried to shape this, it would snap.  So heated it up with the torch to do my bending work.  This seemed to work OK.  I heated it several times.  I really didn’t want it to break!


Here I’m fitting it in place to see how long the spring actually needs to be. You can see the little black Sharpie mark above the click showing the desired length.


After cutting it to length and a little more bending work, here it is in place against the click.  Note that I’ve removed the ratchet from the fusee for all this fitting work because the fusee ratchet, fusee click and spring are all actually behind the maintaining ratchet when in place.


And now, I had to screw the ratchet back into the backside of the fusee, and somehow get the click and spring all engaged in the right place while it is hidden behind the maintaining ratchet.  It took some doing, but eventually, I got there:


Here’s a short video of me clicking the Fusee.  How cool is that? :)
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7L_-RKCcIQ" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7L_-RKCcIQ</a>

I made a couple of little pins and the Maintaining Spring.  The pins were made from stainless steel, and the spring from 1/16” square W-1.  This time I just bent the W-1 and it worked quite well. I didn’t bother to heat it up or anything.  Maybe I didn’t need to do that before either.  The pins are shown already connected to the Maintaining Ratchet (left side) and the Great Wheel (right side) with the spring in the middle.


This is how the spring sits in the Great Wheel.  One end hooks around the pin on the left, and the top end will engage with the pin on the Maintaining ratchet.


And here it is assembled.  You can kind of see the spring inside there, touching the pin at the top.  The pin is attached to the Maintaining Ratchet inside and pushes against the spring.


Here’s my feeble attempt to explain how this all works: When the clock is just running, the fusee turns the Maintaining ratchet through the Fusee Ratchet (the inner click and ratchet we did first), and the pin in the Maintaining Ratchet pushes against the Maintaining Spring, imparting torque to the Great Wheel.  But when someone starts to wind the clock, the fusee will turn in the opposite direction and no longer impart power to the Maintaining Wheel. This would normally allow the whole drive train to go slack, but there is another click (that hasn’t been made yet) that will engage and keep the Maintaining Ratchet from turning backward with the Fusee as it is being wound.  And since the Maintaining Ratchet won't move, the pin holding the top end of the spring will stay in place, allowing the spring to continue to provide power to the Great Wheel.  At least for a short while – until the spring doesn’t have enough torque to continue to operate things anyway.  But it only has to provide power long enough for someone to make a ½ wind or so.  Because then they’ll have to let go of the winding key to turn their wrist back. When this happens, the fusee will reengage and supply power to the spring again until the next wind.

Here's another short video of me playing with the Spring connection to the Great Wheel:
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqZm3SNI-Cc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqZm3SNI-Cc</a>

Next, I’ll make a slip washer that will lock the whole Fusee Assembly together.

Oh yeah, and heat treat the click.

I think I may try heat treating the springs, too. Harden them and then temper till they are blue?  That’s the right way to temper a spring, right?

Or should I just leave the springs alone, untreated?  Thoughts?

Kim

Offline crueby

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 21907
  • Rochester NY
Re: Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock
« Reply #580 on: October 07, 2025, 01:36:59 AM »
Stunning!   :praise2:




The fit and finish are great!   I don't know  about hardening  the springs, if it was needed seems like the book should have said, but those clock authors left out a lot they thought was obvious or common practice. It seems to work properly  without hardening. The clicks on my clocks are brass, no hardening and  working great after decades. They flex so little, unlike a coil spring, that they seem fine as is.


 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
 :popcornsmall: :popcornsmall:

Offline Krypto

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 248
Re: Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock
« Reply #581 on: October 07, 2025, 02:56:46 AM »
Those gears look really good! It's even more impressive knowing how much trouble they gave you.
My Workshop Blog:  https://doug.sdf.org/

Offline bent

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1031
  • Wet side of Washington State, USA
Re: Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock
« Reply #582 on: October 07, 2025, 08:41:20 PM »
I'd worry about the springs distorting across a heat treat cycle.  Might test it on a separate piece (bent section of similar material size) first?

Online Kim

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9217
  • Portland, Oregon, USA
Re: Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock
« Reply #583 on: October 07, 2025, 10:10:19 PM »
Thanks Chris, Krypto, and Bent!  :cheers:

I'd worry about the springs distorting across a heat treat cycle.  Might test it on a separate piece (bent section of similar material size) first?
Interesting thought.  I hadn't considered that...  :thinking:

Kim

Offline crueby

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 21907
  • Rochester NY
Re: Elegent Scroll Frame Skeleton Clock
« Reply #584 on: October 07, 2025, 10:53:27 PM »
I was looking up something else in Stan Bray's book 'Making Clocks', Workshop Practice Series #33. In the section on click springs, he mentions that they can be a variety of materials, including just mild steel that has been hammered on a bit to work harden it and give it more spring type stiffness. Brass, bronze also used. Since they flex so little, just a millimeter or so in a lot of cases as the pawl moves, actual spring steel is not neccessary.

 

SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal