Hispano Suiza V8

[AVTUR]

Mike

I have just acquainted myself with the Wolseley built Hispano Suiza V8 engine.

Did it have a crankshaft damper? The crankshaft appears to have had a very short life.

I will send you a PM in the next few days.

AVTUR

[Vixen]

Hello AVTUR

The Hispano Suiza V8 engine was introduced in 1914, a little over ten years after the Wright brothers made the first ever manned powered flight. Aircraft engines of the period were still in their infancy and designed for simplicity( i.e. before Feddon). The Hispano Suiza V8 engine had a one piece, flat plane crankshaft with four throws and plain bearings. There was no crankshaft damper or balance weights. Fortunately the engine avoided the disastrous torsional vibration issues which plagued the ABS Dragonfly.

Mike (AVGAS mostly)

[RReid]

I found an envelope full of pure gold in my mailbox this afternoon. Absolutely fantastic, Mike, Thank You so much. I've only had a chance to skim over it all so far, but I can see that there is wealth of mechanical detail there that will allow a build well beyond "squint scale" if my skills are up to it. Not having to guess at what many of the parts actually looked like will be a new luxury for me!

Cheers Mike.

[Dave Otto]

Looking forward to this Ron!

Dave

[Art K]

Ron,
This should be a good project!

[Vixen]

Hello Ron,

I am pleased the documents have arrived safely and that you like the contents. There is a lot of information there, which will take time to assimilate. There is information and drawings for the direct drive and also for the reduction drive geared version. The reduction drive allowed a bigger, more efficient, propeller and could also accommodate a Hispano 20mm auto cannon inside the cylinder 'V', firing through the centre of the propeller without the need for interrupter gear. Not sure if they actually did that a lot during WW1, maybe later.

If you want to send me your e-mail address via a PM; I have a collection of photos which may prove useful.

Cheers   

Mike

[RReid]

Hello Dave, Art – Thank you, I'm looking forward to it too!

There is a lot of information there, which will take time to assimilate.

Hello Mike. The first phase will definitely involve a lot of thinking and drawing, and that will take as long as it takes. Only then will chips start to fly.

I think a few cannon equipped Spad S.XII models were built and flown in WW1, but proved a bit troublesome for the pilots to manage so didn't really catch on vs. the standard Vickers machine guns.

PM to follow.

[RReid]

The materials that Mike (Vixen) so generously sent to me have been invaluable in moving the design of this model forward with much more fidelity to the prototype than I could have achieved otherwise. Less squint scale and more to scale, although I admit I will never be purist in this regard.




One of my motivations for getting into the 3D printing world was for its application in Rapid Prototyping. To that end, I asked Mr. Bambu-zle to make a pair of cross-sections of my design work so far on the “Monobloc” so I could evaluate the feasibility of machining it as I intend. In the prototype this is a one piece casting, with the steel cylinders screwed into the upper part of it from below. My plan is to hollow out the area below the valve seat plane from the solid, with the cylinders later screwed to a separate bottom plate. The resulting open volume around the cylinders will serve as the cooling water jacket. In this way, I hope the “one piece” look will be preserved, even though it won't in fact be one piece. I think this will be doable. In the image below, the lower “ridge” represents that separate bottom plate; it won't be there during the machining process.


The cylinders will have a flange that will fit flush into those sockets on the bottom.


The Quality Assurance Dragon is busy looking for nits to pick.

[Vixen]

The materials that Mike (Vixen) so generously sent to me have been invaluable in moving the design of this model forward with much more fidelity to the prototype than I could have achieved otherwise. Less squint scale and more to scale, although I admit I will never be purist in this regard.

Hello Ron,

I am so pleased the Hispano Suiza information has found a new home with someone with the desire and ability to build a fine replica of this historically significant engine. You have made a great start by capturing the original 2D blueprint drawings into a modern 3D drawing package. From there you have been able  to 3D print parts to evaluate the machining processes that will be necessary to realise the 'mono-bloc' cylinder block in metal.

It's just a pity you were not able to invest the extra trillions of dollars needed to get a printer which produced high tensile alloy castings and carbon steel crankshafts.   

Seriously though. The printed parts look to be about 4.5 inches long, I guess this is your chosen scale, dictated by the machine shop inventory. Because all the valves lay on a single plane and inline with the cylinder axes, I can envisage how it may be possible to machine the 'monobloc' in one piece, with the cylinder liners inserted from below. Just a thought, it may give you more options for the cylinder/ cylinder head sealing, if you were to extend the cylinders to the top of the combustion chamber. 

What a great start to an exciting new project

Mike

[Zephyrin]

What a great start to an exciting new project

way beyond my level, but I'll just have to watch!

[RReid]

Thank you Zephyrin, I can only hope it is not above my level!

Hi Mike,

It's not just the drawings and photos that are valuable, but the text materials also. I wondered about the arrangement of the knife and fork connecting rods; do all the knives go up one bank and all the forks the other, or do they alternate? The Wolsely manual gave the answer - viewed from the rear, the knives get the left bank, the forks the right.

Not everything will be done the way H-S did it; there is a tension between fidelity and my own KISS philosophy, but this detail drawing of the valve and adjusting mechanism is interesting and looks entirely practical to recreate in my shop.


Yes, the basic block, minus the flange sticking out that supports the upper end of the cam drive, is 4.4”. Scaling the drawings used for tracing based on a cylinder bore of 0.75” leads directly to that dimension, as well as a crankcase length that allows the option of line boring on the Taig lathe. A 1” bore diameter doesn't work out as well.

Extending the cylinders to the base of the very top of the combustion chamber as you suggest  is an option I've considered, though the drawing shows the other option. I don't yet have a strong preference. Just one of many details to work out and decide on before cutting metal.

Nope, no extra $trillions to found laying around here.

[fumopuc]

Hi Ron,
great progress.
3D printed parts are perfect to check any set up at the machines.
Perhaps you will get the coordinates of Chris shop in NY and he can fly over there to meet the elves.

[RReid]

Hi Achim. Yes, the printer is proving to be a great checking tool and aid to visualization.

Perhaps you will get the coordinates of Chris shop in NY and he can fly over there to meet the elves.

Dragon Hot Wings and Elfensteiner; could be quite a party!

[crueby]

Hi Achim. Yes, the printer is proving to be a great checking tool and aid to visualization.

Perhaps you will get the coordinates of Chris shop in NY and he can fly over there to meet the elves.

Dragon Hot Wings and Elfensteiner; could be quite a party!

The shop elves are in as long as they can get shop dragon rides!   

[RReid]

The shop elves are in as long as they can get shop dragon rides!

Sure, but it will have to be before they imbibe. He doesn't want to get busted by the FAA for flying within 8 hours of drinking!