Author Topic: Kearsarge Windlass Engines  (Read 40729 times)

Offline crueby

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Re: Kearsarge Windlass Engines
« Reply #960 on: June 11, 2024, 02:54:01 PM »
Todays parts were the piston heads, turned from some 1.5" 303 bar stock. Here they are with the o rings fitted and bolted/retaining compounded to the tops of the piston rods:

The o-ring grooves on these were the easiest I've ever done, lucked into just the right depth on the first try with the cylinder.  Nice smooth travel, feels like good compression when moved, so very happy with that.

Lets see, whats next... guess its time to lap down the valve faces smooth, they still have the tool marks from the end mill. Then I'll start making the valve sliders/rods, after that need to make the valve rod glands, eccentrics/straps, reverse links, control arms, and finally the handwheel/bracket for the reverse links (this engine used a threaded rod/handwheel for reversing rather than a hand lever). Getting close!
 :cheers:

Offline mklotz

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Re: Kearsarge Windlass Engines
« Reply #961 on: June 11, 2024, 03:53:55 PM »
I'm curious about attaching the piston rods to the slider with a wedge.  Seems like the alternating stress that joint receives when the engine is running could easily work the wedge loose.  Also, why did they do it that way?  It doesn't seem like a joint that would need to be disconnected often during normal maintenance nor something that needs to be easily replaceable.

Beautiful work indeed, Chris.  Your threads are my first stop whenever I visit the forum.  I continue to be amazed at the speed with which you work and the fact that you're doing all this with Sherline equipment.
Regards, Marv
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Offline crueby

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Re: Kearsarge Windlass Engines
« Reply #962 on: June 11, 2024, 04:20:41 PM »
I'm curious about attaching the piston rods to the slider with a wedge.  Seems like the alternating stress that joint receives when the engine is running could easily work the wedge loose.  Also, why did they do it that way?  It doesn't seem like a joint that would need to be disconnected often during normal maintenance nor something that needs to be easily replaceable.

Beautiful work indeed, Chris.  Your threads are my first stop whenever I visit the forum.  I continue to be amazed at the speed with which you work and the fact that you're doing all this with Sherline equipment.
Hi Marv,


I don't know why  they used a wedge on the crosshead to piston rod connection, its clearly that way in the plans, and they actually  used wedges in a number of places in the frame too that I  chaned to bolts. I've  seen wedges used in other large engines, the Holly pumping engine used them in the same place. Many con rod bearings use them, but those are where they would want to adjust them.


Large wedges would seem to be quite strong, maybe they didn't  want to rely on threads? Yet another place where I'd  love to have a time machine to go back and ask!

Offline cnr6400

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Re: Kearsarge Windlass Engines
« Reply #963 on: June 11, 2024, 04:42:52 PM »
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Have the shop elves been for a ride on the tops of the pistons yet? (or 100 rides?)  :Lol:

re wedges - I can say for sure that most if not all full size steam locomotives in North America had the piston rod secured to the crosshead with a tool steel wedge. Some rods had a threaded connection too, but the wedges secured them. Have not heard of any that came out by accident. They usually were fitted at a strategic angle so there would be access such that they could be hammered /drifted in or out, which required BIG hammers or pneumatic impact tools. Very secure fastenings, many tons of force to shift them. Just food for thought.
"I've cut that stock three times, and it's still too short!"

Offline crueby

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Re: Kearsarge Windlass Engines
« Reply #964 on: June 11, 2024, 05:47:01 PM »
:ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Have the shop elves been for a ride on the tops of the pistons yet? (or 100 rides?)  :Lol:

re wedges - I can say for sure that most if not all full size steam locomotives in North America had the piston rod secured to the crosshead with a tool steel wedge. Some rods had a threaded connection too, but the wedges secured them. Have not heard of any that came out by accident. They usually were fitted at a strategic angle so there would be access such that they could be hammered /drifted in or out, which required BIG hammers or pneumatic impact tools. Very secure fastenings, many tons of force to shift them. Just food for thought.
Great info!!  I remember seeing bearing wedges that also had set screws from the side to ensure they didn't move, though with bearing wedges they wouldn't want them hammered in so tight.
 :ThumbsUp:
Also, no rides with the elves yet, though if I hooked up the drill to the crankshaft I could give them a ride! Wonder how high they would fly...  :LittleDevil:

Offline crueby

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Re: Kearsarge Windlass Engines
« Reply #965 on: June 11, 2024, 05:50:54 PM »
Quick search on 'locomotive piston rod crosshead' found this picture showing the wedge (something I've never noticed before)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crosshead#/media/File:Hudswell_Clarke_Nunlow_at_Lafarge_Hope_Cement_Works_4.jpg

Offline cnr6400

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Re: Kearsarge Windlass Engines
« Reply #966 on: June 11, 2024, 07:08:17 PM »
Nice pic Chris! I've attached one here of the wedge on a locomotive close to me. This engine is the former Essex Terminal Railway 0-6-0 which runs in the St Jacobs Ontario area. Pic was taken in Waterloo Park in 2003.  :cheers:
"I've cut that stock three times, and it's still too short!"

Online uuu

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Re: Kearsarge Windlass Engines
« Reply #967 on: June 11, 2024, 07:42:39 PM »
I quite like this quote from Ken Swan (UK model locomotive designer):

"The difficulty of making up this arrangement worries me less than than the problem of getting them apart again.  An examination of any full-size crosshead bears witness to the brutality needed in dismantling."

Wilf 

Offline Charles Lamont

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Re: Kearsarge Windlass Engines
« Reply #968 on: June 11, 2024, 10:22:06 PM »
In locomotive practice, and probably elsewhere,the socket in the crosshead and the end of the piston rod are tapered.

Dismantling needs a holder-up kneeling or crouched by the crosshead holding the end of a stout bar against the bottom of the cotter and another bloke in the pit under the engine with a sledgehammer. Watching this on one occasion I caught the cotter as it flew past the holder-up's ear. There was no clang of it landing. From below in gravely Liverpudlian: "Where the f*** did that go?" I was not sufficiently quick witted, and failed to hold it behind my back while staring up at the shed roof.

Now the fun begins. At the SVR* we have a tool that fits in the other side of the crosshead after the conrod is removed. It is a while since I last saw it and I don't remember the details. I assume it fits the gudgeon pin hole. A large diameter but fine threaded screw arrangement presses hard aganst the end of the piston rod, while a slide hammer on the outboard end of the tool is used to, eventually, dislodge the taper. At a major overhaul the cotter will often be replaced, and the rounded pressure edges are carefully blued and filed to fit.

*https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-62808569   

Offline crueby

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Re: Kearsarge Windlass Engines
« Reply #969 on: June 11, 2024, 10:29:43 PM »
In locomotive practice, and probably elsewhere,the socket in the crosshead and the end of the piston rod are tapered.

Dismantling needs a holder-up kneeling or crouched by the crosshead holding the end of a stout bar against the bottom of the cotter and another bloke in the pit under the engine with a sledgehammer. Watching this on one occasion I caught the cotter as it flew past the holder-up's ear. There was no clang of it landing. From below in gravely Liverpudlian: "Where the f*** did that go?" I was not sufficiently quick witted, and failed to hold it behind my back while staring up at the shed roof.

Now the fun begins. At the SVR* we have a tool that fits in the other side of the crosshead after the conrod is removed. It is a while since I last saw it and I don't remember the details. I assume it fits the gudgeon pin hole. A large diameter but fine threaded screw arrangement presses hard aganst the end of the piston rod, while a slide hammer on the outboard end of the tool is used to, eventually, dislodge the taper. At a major overhaul the cotter will often be replaced, and the rounded pressure edges are carefully blued and filed to fit.

*https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-62808569
Excellent info! Thanks!  And I really like the catching part of the story...

Offline john mills

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Re: Kearsarge Windlass Engines
« Reply #970 on: June 12, 2024, 12:27:33 AM »
Hi
I have word on some stationary  and portable full size engines and have seen these wedges often coming loose and had to knock them back in
i see holes in the wedge so a wire or a pin can be fitted so they cannot fall completely out may be they are not fitted well enough or not hit in tight enough but it looks like on these engines there is difficulty in keeping them tight.
your engines are looking amazing.
John


Offline crueby

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Re: Kearsarge Windlass Engines
« Reply #971 on: June 12, 2024, 01:23:58 AM »
Hi
I have word on some stationary  and portable full size engines and have seen these wedges often coming loose and had to knock them back in
i see holes in the wedge so a wire or a pin can be fitted so they cannot fall completely out may be they are not fitted well enough or not hit in tight enough but it looks like on these engines there is difficulty in keeping them tight.
your engines are looking amazing.
John
Thanks John!

I'm sure the angle of the wedges makes a big difference, just like on a taper pin. Too steep and it will work loose easier. Too shallow, and you have to get the height JUST right or it will go right through the slots. As you say, I've seen some with set screws, mainly on bearing wedges, but I've never looked close at the other type (haven't noticed them much!)  Just looked back through the Holly pump engine original blueprints, they specify a 3/4" per foot taper on the wedge, did not use any cross pin or set screw.


I bet in some of the old textbooks there are guidelines on this...

Offline john mills

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Re: Kearsarge Windlass Engines
« Reply #972 on: June 12, 2024, 08:05:48 AM »
the engine i see are old so we never know the complete history how they were originally the parts could have been changed a number of times in
its woking life by deferent fitters of varying skills.
Johnl 

Offline crueby

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Re: Kearsarge Windlass Engines
« Reply #973 on: June 12, 2024, 03:49:49 PM »
This morning got a start on the slide valves. Making them from a length of bronze roundbar, held in a collet block to mill off the sides to the right dimensions (0.85 x .75). Keeping it clamped in the collet during all these operations so the sides all come out square to each other, just have to unclamp the vise and turn the block to the next face. This section is long enough to get the two sliders out of.


Next step will be to mill the recess on the end for the first slider. Here is some high-tech layout, scribed on the outlines and went over with a marker!

The actual cutting will be by measurements, the lines are just a reference for the initial roughing cuts.

Offline cnr6400

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Re: Kearsarge Windlass Engines
« Reply #974 on: June 12, 2024, 04:47:44 PM »
 :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :ThumbsUp: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
"I've cut that stock three times, and it's still too short!"

 

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