Author Topic: scale model research project help needed  (Read 745 times)

Offline s.e. charles

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scale model research project help needed
« on: November 16, 2023, 07:29:58 PM »
if this is annoying, please read no further.

i want to build a 1:24 scale air compressor & water pump, both powered x a model A four cylinder engine.

Q: how would the coupling be made from the banger transmission to the two devices?

Q: could there be, perhaps using the factory transmission, a transfer case that would allow power to be used driving one or both pump & compressor.

Q: would the engine be powerful (in the real world) enough to serve both?

the entire assembly will be installed on a reinforced '28 Ford A chassis.

i am only interested in creating a plausible model. if a 1:1 has never been made, there's probably good reason!

thanks

Offline Roger B

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Re: scale model research project help needed
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2023, 07:49:44 PM »
I can't speak for the American market however Land Rover made versions of the Mk1 called the compressor and the welder which drove an air compressor or a welding generator from the power take off on the gearbox. This site only mentions the welder version:

https://www.dunsfoldcollection.co.uk/collection/series1/guide/

Land Rovers were also used as fire engines with the pump being driven from the PTO:

http://nationaltransportmuseum.org/fev003.html

The required engine power will obviously depend on the pumping requirements. So yes it it is plausible  :)

Best regards

Roger

Online Jasonb

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Re: scale model research project help needed
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2023, 08:19:07 PM »
Is the Model A engine also going to be 1:24th scale? That is going to be a very small engine if you want it to work with a bore of about 4mm (5/32")

The compressor bore would be something a bit smaller so the associated parts will be very tiny too.

Or are we talking plastic models here?

Offline RReid

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Re: scale model research project help needed
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2023, 08:30:22 PM »
The Gordon Smith conversion cylinder head, patented in the 1930's, allowed a Model A or B engine to function as an air compressor. Cylinders 1 and 4 ran as a 2 cylinder engine, while 2 and 3 were the compressor cylinders. Not exactly what you're asking about, but may be of interest anyway?
https://www.hagerty.com/media/automotive-history/when-america-reinvented-a-ford-to-get-stuff-done/
Regards,
Ron

Offline s.e. charles

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Re: scale model research project help needed
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2023, 10:03:18 PM »
thanks for the fast replies. this forum was recommended from a response (sandiapaul)  on the Practical Machinist Forum.

the Rovers set ups will get a good goings over. i'm warming to the idea of pto shaft(s) to give me some design flexibility. there won't be much real estate as i'm intending to leave the pickup box on the frame to stash tools & air/ water hoses - "stowage" the military tank modelers call it. gives the piece some interesting detail & purpose.

yes; non-working plastic model. since 'plant' tends to last, i'm thinking 1930 vintage. it's for my model railroad and its era is post WWII with a cut off date of March 13, 1949 (don't ask!).

1:24 scale estate / feldbahn 15 inch gauge. Sir Arthur Heywood size. basically what was used in the peat bogs in Ireland or the sugar cane fields in Indonesia or industrial complexes everywhere.   

"Gn15" is common nomenclature, but G scale is 1:20, so i don't particularly like the reference even though those that do don't usually differentiate.

the Smiths compressors came up in my internet searches, so the supplemental information is helpful/ noted.

thnaks again; i know this is pretty much an "off-topic" discussion for this Forum but your responses are helpful.

sid

Offline PJPickard

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Re: scale model research project help needed
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2023, 11:43:51 PM »
s.e. charles,

I told you this would be good place to ask!
I go by a different name here(real one)

I'd like to hear about your research and progress on this!

Offline s.e. charles

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Re: scale model research project help needed
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2023, 11:55:19 PM »
well now you know you are appreciated.

i am in the throes of a bunch of projects, so progress will be spotty.

i'm not good at build threads, but i will post a picture now and again as things begin to fall into place.

thanks again,

sid

Online Jasonb

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Re: scale model research project help needed
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2023, 07:28:15 AM »
I briefly had a Suzuki LJ50 that also had a PTO shaft that came up through the load bed so that would be a simple way to do things though whether a backyard conversion would have gone to the trouble of fitting a transfer box to a RWD chassis is questionable. More likely strapped an old hit and miss or Model A engine to the back and lashed up a belt drive to the compressor and pump maybe with a fast and loose pulley

Offline s.e. charles

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Re: scale model research project help needed
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2023, 10:03:27 AM »
in the real world i believe you are correct. in my world - population one - i am forever making mountains out of molehills. Occam's Razor has no place on my workbench!

i worked with a fellow that made a cordwood (crosscuts only) saw out of a hit'n'miss engine complete with sliding table. when he showed me, i thought for sure it was the easiest way

to lose a limb (his/ not the tree's) i had ever seen.

Q: was the Suzuki shaft vertical? like a capstan winch. i'm having a little difficulty picturing it.

thanks

Online Jasonb

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Re: scale model research project help needed
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2023, 11:03:16 AM »
No, it came up at an angle with a UJ at each end

Offline s.e. charles

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Re: scale model research project help needed
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2023, 11:26:59 AM »
got it; thanks for the clarification. makes more sense to me now.

Offline Noitoen

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Re: scale model research project help needed
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2023, 07:47:17 PM »

Q: was the Suzuki shaft vertical? like a capstan winch. i'm having a little difficulty picturing it.

thanks

My boss has an old Willys with a capstan winch driven by the engine like this one:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTd_NYi1K3w3ntpHQ-3E5LkEowHJmOoqeQbQ3ZoLv4PZg&s

Offline s.e. charles

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Re: scale model research project help needed
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2023, 08:11:10 PM »
thanks. it's helpful to see the individual components laid out like that.

one of the features i would like to incorporate on my train layout is an area dedicated to capstan switching. there will probably be a plate turntable in the mix, too.

similar to this:

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP1UA4ZxN6A" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP1UA4ZxN6A</a>

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjpgiqjtXXQ" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjpgiqjtXXQ</a>

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkHwywenAYw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkHwywenAYw</a>

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s2qA05OzuQ" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s2qA05OzuQ</a>

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXSYXGbncOw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXSYXGbncOw</a>

NOT this:    <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1xK0GVGQBk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1xK0GVGQBk</a>

 

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