Gorton 265 d bit grinder overhaul

[steamer]

It is becoming very clear doing very small parts that my equipment to grind custom tools is woefully inadequate.    I have a old Gorton 265 that is very worn, but I know that it would suite a lot of my needs for special cutters, ....so it's getting moved forward to be done before boat work gets underway.    Staytuned!

( picture is not my grinder, but its identical)

[Dave Otto]

Hi Dave

It will be fun to follow along with the rebuild.
I picked up the one in the attached photo last year and went completely through it. It wasn't in too bad of shape just filthy.
New bearings in the spindle and motor and new felt seals in the work head and main bar. I did have to make a few small parts that were missing and not available anymore.
I'm pleased to have been able to acquire it and the price was right too.

Dave

[90LX_Notch]

Dave-

My Chinese Deckle clone is probably one of the better tool investments that I’ve made.  It doesn’t get used often, but it opens so many doors to solve problems.  I use mine a lot to make small radius tools for fillet radii.

 When I made the 0-80 socket head cap screws, the .050 hex broach was made on the Deckle clone.  I also used it to grind a very small boring bar to bore the pilot holes for the broach in the screws.

-Bob

[steamer]

Hi Dave

It will be fun to follow along with the rebuild.
I picked up the one in the attached photo last year and went completely through it. It wasn't in too bad of shape just filthy.
New bearings in the spindle and motor and new felt seals in the work head and main bar. I did have to make a few small parts that were missing and not available anymore.
I'm pleased to have been able to acquire it and the price was right too.

Dave

LOL   I've had this since about 2000!   I've just kept putting it off!
The workhead is pretty worn....there's a lot of slop...my plan is to bore the housing and sleeve it.
The spindle bearings seem good!   I'm going to leave them alone as they feel and sound fine.
I have all the collets....

[steamer]

Do you two have a manual for the Deckle?    Something to read up on.

Dave

[steamer]

The housing bore is pretty worn....here's a section from the manual ...I've lined it in red

[90LX_Notch]

Dave-

These are the two best sources of info that I have found to get started:

http://www.nemes.org/Shaper%20Books/DECKEL%20OPERATING%20INSTRUCTIONS.pdf

 The Tool and Die Guy has a very good series of videos on YouTube.

-Bob

[steamer]

Thanks Bob!

Dave

[Dave Otto]

The link that Bob posted is the book that I have. I couldn't get the link to work for me but I was able to find it on the NEMES site.

Dave O.

[steamer]

Thanks Dave!   Got it!

The Gorton doesn't do radius grinding, but that's ok....

Dave

[john mills]

the gorton book i have mentions a work head for doing radius ball end cutters
do you have a gorton book the one for there milling machine gives some instructions for grinding D bits.
I found the cutters need to be precise to work well .when i made a lot of embossing dies you soon found
some that were ground and held so they run true worked well some would not last long at all and i would get they weren't quite right.
at that time i could only use a tool and cutter grinder and the better chuck was missing.I only worked out what to grind an engraver showed me what they used.
John
 

[steamer]

the gorton book i have mentions a work head for doing radius ball end cutters
do you have a gorton book the one for there milling machine gives some instructions for grinding D bits.
I found the cutters need to be precise to work well .when i made a lot of embossing dies you soon found
some that were ground and held so they run true worked well some would not last long at all and i would get they weren't quite right.
at that time i could only use a tool and cutter grinder and the better chuck was missing.I only worked out what to grind an engraver showed me what they used.
John

The 375 did radius grinds, but not the 265   Just straight and conical.   Which for most of what I do is just fine.    The other thing I'll be grinding is lathe tools.....

[steamer]

The ground workhead spindle itself is perfect!    The bore is wore all kinds of catiwampus!....I think a sleeve on the bore will sort that out just fine

Bore is 1.25" while the OD will be less than 1.375

The center height of the workhead housing is too tall for mounting it on the cross slide directly, so I may put  a knee on it, or mount it to a face plate

Dave

[steamer]

Hey John Mills......YOU were right!

In another catalog, they mention a radius attachment....no picture though

[steamer]

The other reference that I found first John Mills

[steamer]

I checked the workhead spindle after work today and it's barrel shaped by .00035" while the housing bore is worn oval by over .0035"....so its a bit of a mess..   I'll lap the spindle to clean up and straighten the OD and I'm cutting a sleeve for the bore as I type.  1.3125 od and 1.1875 ID    I'll bore the housing out and loctite a sleeve in then finish bore to size in the same set up.    Bore target is 1.2488"  or as near as I can

Pictures coming

Dave

[steamer]

Step 1    make a bushing

Here I have a piece of 1.5" Cast iron bar stock where the OD was turned down to 1.311 and the ID was brought to 1.190

Next I mounted the work held in the lathe such that I had a work head collet gripping a 1/2 inch shank tool heald in a 3 jaw chuck

 I then bored the housing out to 1.311 in small bites.... and I nailed it ....line to line

I added some loctite, but I don't think it was needed.

Tomorrow I'll bore the bearing to final size.

Dave

[Kim]

Here I have a piece of 1.5" Cast iron bar stock where the OD was turned down to 1.311 and the ID was brought to 1.90

Making the OD bigger than the ID is quite a trick!  You'll have to teach me how to do that one, Dave! 

Looks like you're making good headway on it Dave 

Kim

[steamer]

Ahh     1.190....

It's in    the setup moved during install  so I'll need to tram it back in   
Dave

[steamer]

The tricky part is making sure the index pin and index plate are parallel and exactly in the correct position for proper operation before I bring the bore to final size   but I'll need to clean up the OD of the spindle just a touch and see if I can get rid of some of that "barrel" wear of  .00035"...I'm doing my best to bring it back as good as new as it will be far more useful if it's accurate.

[steamer]

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWhL3umuANA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWhL3umuANA</a>

Aligning the housing to the spindle axis

[steamer]

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87Fyi2FtVks" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87Fyi2FtVks</a>

[steamer]

I ended up facing the index plate as it spent most of it's life being expertly adjusted via Estwing!.....

spindle is tight, but zero slop....so it should be good for my lifetime.

Dave

[Kim]

Making some nice progress, Dave! 

Kim

[steamer]

Making some nice progress, Dave! 

Kim

That was the biggest problem       The rest is in pretty good shape

Dave

[steamer]

Setting up to give the old girl a test grind....just got my AlOx cup wheel....a diamond wheel is coming along as well

[steamer]

OK progress!

Got the wheel mounted and a make shift power cord/switch on the motor, and oiled it all up.

Mounted the freshly rebuilt workhead, and some 1/8" HSS  and ground the end square.ish....  (The light in the area is severely lacking....I'll get to that)

I then turned the head around 90 plus 3 degrees for some side rake and ground a small flat.....

Indexed the head 180 and ground another and they measure the same!   woo hoo!

Observations,

The motor and spindle sound a bit "dry"  though they seem to run smooth.   I'll keep the oil to them for a while as this grinder hasn't turned in 16 years.

Having only indexing for 120 or 90 degress is very limiting.    I'd like to lock the spindle at 3-5 degees either side of that to grind side relief into cutters.....I'll need to come up with something there.

Where this sits in my shop  I CAN"T SEE A DAMN THING!......it will need a small hi intensity gooseneck type light that I can move around and light up the various scales ....

It needs a dresser of some form ....while a single point or even a small fleecing diamond in the workhead would work fine, a swing down dresser is an attractive idea...but we'll see on that..

It is going to need some serious dust collection/control.  I don't need to be breathing this stuff or dumping it all over the shop....Samantha Bell will get upset!


Onward.....not much to see other than the pictures I've taken already, but once I tool the the little thing a bit I'll post some.

Dave

[Kim]

Wonderful!  Seeing the first grind on your 'new' grinder is great progress, Dave! 
You'll get the details worked out

Kim

[Dave Otto]

Sounds like good progress!
I used some 1/2" Loc-Line and a 3d printed adapter to hold the vacuum nozzle on my Clone grinder. I will try to post a photo of it later.

Dave

Photo attached.

[steamer]

Thanks Dave and Kim,    I ordered a LED light and a diamond.    next is the dust collection solution    I like that Dave Otto!

Might be the way I go as well, as I don't use that crevice tool on my shop vac currently.

Gonna "poke around with it today" and see, but it's grinding nicely, so the fit of the work head spindle is at least sufficient!

It's the tightest fit I've ever made....and if feels just like my Levin Tailstock.....almost a ever so slight press fit....

Dave

[steamer]

Did a little checking, and the motor bearings are fine.   The spindle bearings are pretty noisy.    So a not exhaustive search didn't turn up what these bearings are.   I'm not desperate at the moment, and i'll be using it as is.  but Id like to change the spindle bearings out before I make up some tooling.   First attachment to make is a collet mounted lathe tool holder.

If someone has a line on what is in a 265-6 grinder spindle for bearings  I'd appreciate it.    The manual implies it's a duplex pair at the nose and a deep groove conrad at the back.   

Dave

[steamer]

cross section in the back of the manual

[steamer]

Meanwhile     The task light for the grinder just showed up!   

[john mills]

those will be a a pair of supper precision angular contact ball they will come as duplex pair the single would be a super precision deep groove .i just replaced the ones in my mill it has two pairs.
john

[steamer]

those will be a a pair of supper precision angular contact ball they will come as duplex pair the single would be a super precision deep groove .i just replaced the ones in my mill it has two pairs.
john

Yes I suspect ABEC 7 or better face to face based on the illustration.    Looking for a bearing number.....

Dave

[Dave Otto]

When I went through my Deckel SO I purchased new bearings from ARTCO, they seem to be much less sophisticated than the Gorton.
Probably plenty good for anything I will ever do.
https://www.artcotools.com/deckel-grinder-part-model-so-spindle-bearings.html

Dave

[steamer]

Thanks Dave

If you think about it,  the end face is the primary face for grinding on the OD...at least on the Gorton...What were the bores of those bearings?

I'm told the Gorton's are 17mm  but I dont know yet

Dave

[Dave Otto]

17 ID 30 OD 7mm wide, at least that is what I'm finding on the NET. The DIN 625 seems to point to a deep groove high speed bearing that can take both redial and axial forces.
I don't think that I saved the old ones.

Dave

[steamer]

17 ID 30 OD 7mm wide, at least that is what I'm finding on the NET. The DIN 625 seems to point to a deep groove high speed bearing that can take both redial and axial forces.
I don't think that I saved the old ones.

Dave

No worries man!   I flooded the spindle oil and let it run for a while and it quieted down significantly.....and it seems to grind alright..It needs bearings but not real bad....so I'll sit tight and use it till it's a problem.    I have enough projects going on at the moment!

Dave

[Dave Otto]

I did find the originals and the dimensions are correct, the Deckel only has two bearings on the spindle, one at each end. The other one is 12 ID 28 OD and 8mm wide.

Dave

[steamer]

I did find the originals and the dimensions are correct, the Deckel only has two bearings on the spindle, one at each end. The other one is 12 ID 28 OD and 8mm wide.

Dave

Thanks Dave!!!   Yeah    Probably this winter coming....I'll tear into it.    I want to make a lathe tool holder that will fit in the 4 NS 5/8 collet  and let me grind side relief as well as top and front rake.   should be doable without getting too complicated.....I have something in my head that I think will work and still let me index every 90 degrees....

Dave

[steamer]

And thanks for the link!    Northern Bearing is local, but I need to get to the counter with them....I'll check out the bearings with the link......

Once I know what they are!.... LOL

Dave