What shall I build?

[Gas_mantle]

Hi all, I'm a forum member returning to model engineering after a bit of a break, and looking for a few ideas of what to build next.
I'm not a complete beginner but not an expert either, I have a Chester DB10 lathe and Champion 20 milling machine plus the usual tooling etc.
In he past I've built small steam engines and am happy to build another one perhaps a bit larger or possibly an internal combustion engine if I can find a fairly simple one.
I'm open to either building barstock or from castings.

Any suggestions welcome 🙂

[crueby]

I've got the CAD design/plans from the USS Kearsarge steering engine I could send you, its a larger (much) version than the one I built from the German river boat last year:

[Gas_mantle]

Many thanks for the offer Crueby but I think that is beyond my skill level.
I'd like a relatively easy steam or IC engine build or possibly even a hot air engine.

[Jo]

Hi Peter,

The clarkson engine you mentioned on the other thread is a good idea at the right price. 

As a quickly to get your hand back in an oscillator is always a good choice. The blackgate vee was a good price for the size of the engine. The Stuart oscillator vee twin is cute as well but rather more expensive. Stuart’s also do singles oscillators 

Jo

[crueby]

And if you want to build a Stuart engine from barstock, Stuart does sell the plans individually (at least for the ones I looked at), you don't have to buy the whole casting kit if you dont want to.

[Alyn Foundry]

Hi Peter.

Pleased to read you’re using equipment supplied by my former employer. The DB series of lathes was just coming in when I left…. The “ Dogs 80!!0ks “ 😉 A rather quaint term around here for Top Dollar.

I have a couple of kits available currently, not quite IC more EXC in the form of CHUK 2 ( designed by me for the use of Chester UK ) and little Nattie. Both are vacuum engines and very easy to build. All Iron construction.

The only proper IC engine available is the Robinson size X gas engine not too difficult to build but a tad more expensive.

   Graham.

[Jasonb]

Peter, did you ever get the Stuart 10V that you had the standard for finished, I think that is what you were working on when we last heard from you. EDIT you did

As you have done my Muncaster I've a few others you could try from a Muncaster oscillator that is quick and simple to build, The Tompstone which is a horizontal type mill engine, a version of Chuk but don't want to take business away from Graham on that one or you could be the guinea pig for a vertical of mine.

The Clarkson you were interested in would make a good sizable project but need a decent air or steam supply to run and the missing bits can be sorted fairly easily. As Chris says you can do the Stuarts with just a few castings, have a look at my recent James Coombes and Real build threads, the Tee books are a cheaper source for the drawings too.

[Gas_mantle]

Many thanks for the help and encouragement 

Ive been a tad unwell lately and gave engineering a miss for a while, I now feel far better and also have a bit of spare cash that i intend to use on buying some better tooling and either the castings or barstock to resume where i left off.

Ive just bought a Stuart 504 boiler (i do have other boilers) largely as an effort to get my arse into gear and build something, the thinking is now that i have a new boiler i need to build something for it to power. For this reason a steam engine is the obvious choice but im open to other engines if they look fairly straight forward to build.

Jason, I rather like the vertical engine you made (the one like a Stuart no1) but think Id struggle machining the upright standard so the pale blue horizontal engine looks a better option, are the plans available to buy?

If I go down the road of castings, the Clarkson looks achievable but i do also like the Stuart James Coombes 

[Jasonb]

The standard is not too difficult.

Start with a few bits of steel



Drill a 12mm hole and do a bit of milling to that hole and a couple of other simple operations



Solder together, though it could have a couple of additional screws added so it could be bonded with JBWeld



Then the top, bottom and crossheead guide can all be machined at one setting so all should be true and square



Bed is similar to the small Stuart one I drew for you, cylinder is silver soldered but again could be JBWelded or cut from solid. It's the same 24mm Bore as the Muncaster but could be enlarged if you wanted. I need to complete drawings and text for this one.

The horizontal is all drawn and written up so no problems there. Again 24mm bore and a soldered cylinder but could be JBWelded, used an off the shelf flywheel

[Jo]

  I thought Peter mentioned something about

I'd like a relatively easy steam or IC engine build or possibly even a hot air engine.

What is simple for one person is very advanced to another 

Jo

[Jasonb]

Assuming that was aimed at me rather than Chris

The couple of other "simple operations" were drilling and tapping two holes and milling  a rebate.



From what I saw of Peters making of my Muncaster's SIMPLE Entablature engine and the parts I drew for him to make use of the Stuart standard that he had I would say he is more than capable of making the engines I have suggested. Certainly able to drill and tap holes and mill a rebate.

I would say they are easier than that Clarkson Compound too.

[Jo]

Assuming that was aimed at me rather than Chris

Yes. 

After a bit of a break it is good to start with a beginner's engine where things come together quickly so you get a sense of achievement. Most beginners would look at your barstock standard as a very complicated item with lots of opportunities to get it wrong. 

Jo

[Gas_mantle]

Many thanks 

I could probably get away with fabricating the standard on the vertical engine with care so it is certainly a possibility as a next build.

In the next few days im going to order some more / better tooling so that ought open doors to being a bit more adventurous. Most of my cutting tools, mills, drill bits etc were bought on a budget and its time to replace them. I badly need a quick change tool post for my lathe, nothing is a greater disincentive than having to mess around swapping cutting tools and resetting the height every time. A lathe collet chuck and a full set of ER32 collets is also much needed.

Ill have look at options over the next few days and hopefully start building something next week, I'll probably do a beginners build log with photos here to possibly help and encourage other less experienced hobbyists 

[Jasonb]

. Most beginners would look at your barstock standard as a very complicated item with lots of opportunities to get it wrong. 

Well I suppose it does depend on the beginner, take the likes of Fred, with the right help and encouragement he did a good job of his traction engine having only done a wobbler before.

I don't feel that standard should be too complicated, it is designed to be fabricated from oversize parts  so not a problem if something is a bit off. It then can be handled much like a casting to do the final machining and as I have said with all surfaces accessible in one setup, easy to hold so hard to go wrong, certainly no more risk of mucking it up than with a casting. Also no hardspots or undersize castings to cause problems either.

If the beginner were to go wrong it's not such a big deal with a fabrication, £5 would buy you enough material to have three goes at that part. Compare that to £60 for a similar part on a comparable size Stuart engine or even £45 for the more complex standard on their V wobbler.

Then there is the fact that most people entering the hobby these days are more conversant with metric so will be able to understand metric drawings. And unlike the Clarkson Compound that has so many missing dimensions hopefully they are all on my drawing and if anything is missing I actively update and revise them, can't really say that for many of out suppliers.

What's not to like

[Gas_mantle]

Jason, the only slight issue I may have is soldering the standard, I only have a small Mapp gas torch at the moment and it is doubtful if it would cope. I have considered buying something something with a bit more guts though.

[Jasonb]

As I said JB weld would do it, probably just add a screw each end to add extra strength to those joints. Could also be cut from solid. If you decide to go for that one then I can draw to suit.

[Gas_mantle]

Thanks, if intended to build one I'd rather solder it if possible.

[Hugh Currin]

You mentioned maybe an IC engine? For that I'd suggest a Webster. Relatively simple four stroke from bar stock. Plans should be available via Internet.

The Kerzel looks to be a nice IC for hit and miss. Likely more complex than the Webster but a nice looking engine. I believe it's also a bar stock engine.

Then I like the Firefly which is a bar stock model airplane engine. I like it as it's a glow plug engine so fuel is easily available in the USA. I see you're in the UK so fuel for a diesel (compression ignition) engine may be more available. It was designed as a beginner engine but don't know how well they did with this goal.

Don't forget about the Stiriling engines also. So many options so little time.

Hope this is of some interest. Thanks.

[Jasonb]

There were a lot of people who had a go at the firefly when it first came out in RCM&E and then ME, there is a comprehensive build thread on it to help beginners. When I spoke with Alex the designer he said 60-70 sets of materials had been sold plus others would have made from their own stocks.

[Hugh Currin]

Jason:

I thought I saw in my searches that you built a Firefly. Is that correct? I may give this one a go and was (or will) ask you about the experience when it gets close (like next fall). But since it came up, what do you think of the design and plans?

Thanks.

There were a lot of people who had a go at the firefly when it first came out in RCM&E and then ME, there is a comprehensive build thread on it to help beginners. When I spoke with Alex the designer he said 60-70 sets of materials had been sold plus others would have made from their own stocks.

[Jasonb]

Plans were very good with no real errors and easy to follow, Plans are  available again with the agreement of Glenn who drew them up from Alex' original engine . Alex used to host the drawings but I have them in my Dropbox account now.

https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=70308&p=1

The modern CAD drawings offer so much more than the poor quality copies of old drawings that seem to tend come from the usual suppliers





I did a couple of modifications to mine which are just cosmetic

[Gas_mantle]

Thanks for the replies everyone and sorry for the late reply but I've been a bit preoccupied the last few days.

I've just bought a second hand set of castings for the Stuart beam engine, it isn't really my preferred choice but I got it a good price so I couldn't resist it.

I've never built an engine completely from casting before so I'm hoping it's, within my skill level.

I'll do a build log in another thread once I start on it 

[Hugh Currin]

Gas_mantle: Sounds like a good choice. I've shied away from castings, mainly due to the cost. But it sounds like you got a good deal, win/win. Looking forward to the build log.

Jason: Thanks for the info.

Thanks.

[Gas_mantle]

Hugh, I kinda dropped lucky with the castings. I bought a Stuart 504 boiler on ebay a couple of weeks ago and the seller asked if I was interested in castings, he offered me first refusal on the beam engine at a decent price.

I've never built an engine entirely from castings before so this will be a first for me