Making Progress

[Jasonb]

Or more precisely a replica of the Stuart Models "Progress SH"

99 years ago in 1924 Stuart introduced the "progress" range of six engines all sharing a similar bore and stroke and consisting of horizontal and vertical oscillators, horizontal and vertical slide valve engines, a mill engine and an undertype engine. Production ran up until about 1941 with only the horizontal oscillator being reintroduced a few years ago.

The subject of this thread is the Progress SH standing for Slide valve Horizontal an engine of similar style to the well known S50 with a bore of 1/2" and a stroke of 3/4"



A reprint of the booklet mentioned in the above catalogue extract is still available from Tee Publishing and covers all the engines in the range with building notes as well as drawings so that is what I started with. As with my other recreations of long lost small engines I set to and redrew it in metric with a 12mm bore and 20mm stroke in Alibre, exporting some parts to F360 to make use of the CAM function to generate the G-code needed for the CNC mill.



When I originally started to draw this up I had intended to build up the main bed "casting" from some 2" x 1" aluminium flat bar adding the bearing and guide rail bosses to the top as well as the cylinder support as a separate piece. However as I got closer to making a start I had second thoughts and decided that the bed would make an interesting part to cut from almost one solid block. looking around at prices it was more economical to start with 40 x 60 flat EN3 steel than 2" imperial steel or aluminium stock so a length was ordered from M-Machine and duly milled down to the required 34mm finished height with the length and width plus 2mm to give a 1mm all round machining allowance for the. While it was an easy to hold rectangular block I milled and tapped 3 pockets for teh feet which will be done as separate parts to reduce the waste material. I also tapped tow M8 holes so that I could mount the stock to a block that could inturn be held in the machine vice



To reduce the amount of CNC time I sawed out one corner of the block and modelled that in F360 to use as my setup stock, her you can see the part lurking within the "L" shaped stock



A second setup was required to maching out the material under the cylinder support



This shot shows the results of an adaptive clearing tool path that leaves a series of steps on the sloping surfaces as they all have a draft angle to mimic the casting and one of the finishing paths has just started to work it's way down around the near bearing block boss.



And once all the finish paths have been completed. I also drilled all the holes at this setup with the CNC but manually tapped them although I did reposition the spindle above each hole to help guide the tap vertically



From a slightly different angle the light falling on the more matt near vertical faces shows where the draft angle feathers out under the cylinder support the brighter material which is the vertical "shadow" below will be removed with the second setup



I did muck up my edge finding for the second op but was able to recover things by using some U-pol Rapid filler and running the cut again in the correct position, you can just see the lighter coloured filler on the right hand inner face of the support webs.



While the CNC was warm I also did the three feet on that doing both the milled profile and the two holes, these were then sawn off the scraps of bar, machined to 4mm thick and then screwed and JBWelded into the pockets on the underside of the bed.

[Jo]

  So I am having a  moment: why is this your own design not a reproduction (possibly scaled) of the original Stuart Design?

Jo

[crueby]

Because its not quite the same design? Reworked for metric sizes, shapes are slightly different  around the ends, no lettering  on the side, etc. Same general type but newly drawn.


Lookinggood, will be interesting to  watch along!

[Jo]

I think scaling dimensions or  blending curves are not sufficient to get round copyright law   .

I'm sure Jason will let us know why his is different 

Jo

[kuhncw]

Jason,

Thanks for starting another of your instructive threads.

Chuck

[Dave Otto]

Looks like another very nice project Jason!

Dave

[Jasonb]

So I am having a  moment: why is this your own design not a reproduction (possibly scaled) of the original Stuart Design?

Well that is the section of the forum I have put about 15 other engines in where I have built my own version. So why kick up a fuss now?

Don't see you suggesting to the likes of Julius that he is getting round copyright when ever he posts a new set of drawing and makes them public, at least I'm just designing for myself.

I'm hardly just scaling dimensions if the bore has gone down from 1/2" to 12mm and the stroke gone up from 3/4" to 20mm. I have also made improvements to the published design such as incorporating a steam/air inlet as the original does not show how you were supposed to get steam into the engine  , this meant I was able to run the engine this afternoon pity all those before who could not get theirs to run not that that is a problem for some.

Where would you suggest I post this build? It is not following a published set of plans, not from a casting kit, not a restoration so as far as I can see I only have "your designs" to post it in.

[Vixen]

I think scaling dimensions or  blending curves are not sufficient to get round copyright law   .

I'm sure Jason will let us know why his is different 

Jo

Jo,

Are you suggesting that every builder of a scale model, of any type, is potentially in breach of copyright law?

Mike

[Jo]

So I am having a  moment: why is this your own design not a reproduction (possibly scaled) of the original Stuart Design?

Well that is the section of the forum I have put about 15 other engines in where I have built my own version. So why kick up a fuss now?

Because there are people who do their own model design from scratch (like Vixen and GeorgeB  and their various engines) which is the intent for the "Own design" area which is to show our  appreciation of their total design capabilities, knowledge, and skills, from initial concept for a model engine through to final execution of that engine .

There are a great many excellent existing model engine designs that could be updated to reflect modern practises/measurements. The updating of these existing designs require a different set of skills to update them and I am unconvinced that that considerable re-work constitutes claiming the design for their own but it is definitely a design from existing plans and we have an area for those .

Don't see you suggesting to the likes of Julius that he is getting round copyright when ever he posts a new set of drawing and makes them public, at least I'm just designing for myself.

His drawings are posted in the plans and drawings area. He does not seek to claim the design as his own or to take credit for the design other than having successfully scaled and each of his drawings identify the originator (Julius is very good at complying with Copyright Law with his drawings in putting acknowledgement of the original design in each and every one of his drawings    ).

Jo

[Jo]

I think scaling dimensions or  blending curves are not sufficient to get round copyright law   .

I'm sure Jason will let us know why his is different 

Jo

Jo,

Are you suggesting that every builder of a scale model, of any type, is potentially in breach of copyright law?

Mike

I am suggesting that if you take an existing set of model engine drawings and scale it, even taking into account standard material dimensions, you cannot claim the resulting drawing set as your own design, copyright law requires that you at least acknowledge the origin (ownership) of the design on your drawings. 

Jo

P.S. I cannot see Stuart being fussy as the progress casting set is so cheap 

[Jasonb]

Well I know you said recently "I even find reading (the forum) a bit of a challenge"  but if my opening line is not acknowledging the origin then what is?

"Or more precisely a replica of the Stuart Models "Progress SH""

As I'm not making the drawings available to anyone else what does copyright have to do with it anyway? infact I have not even printed off a set of working drawings even for myself, I just take what I need from the 3D model and make a rough sketch on a scrap of paper.

If you can concentrate long enough to follow the whole build you will see that I have also altered my design to more closely follow what I have researched by looking at examples of existing engines and included features on these that are not shown on the drawings, changed parts that looked "too heavy" to by eye or parts that I simply did not like the look of, etc

P.S. I cannot see Stuart being fussy as the progress casting set is so cheap

You really are having a moment, as I said the progress in question has not been made since 1941 so how the hell do you know it is a cheap set of castings?

[Vixen]

I think scaling dimensions or  blending curves are not sufficient to get round copyright law   .

I'm sure Jason will let us know why his is different 

Jo

Jo,

Are you suggesting that every builder of a scale model, of any type, is potentially in breach of copyright law?

Mike

I am suggesting that if you take an existing set of model engine drawings and scale it, even taking into account standard material dimensions, you cannot claim the resulting drawing set as your own design, copyright law requires that you at least acknowledge the origin (ownership) of the design on your drawings. 

Jo

P.S. I cannot see Stuart being fussy as the progress casting set is so cheap 

According to that logic; If Jason were to call his engine a "Bellamy Progress SH", he would be in breach of your copyright laws but calling it a "Stuart Models Progress SH replica" would not, as he acknowledges the origin (ownership) of the design. 

BTW, there is not a specific "Scale Models" category, we can only chose from "your own design" "from kits/castings" or "From plans". That leaves me confused as to where my Mercedes Benz and Bristol Mercury and Bristol Jupiter engines should reside.  Currently they are in "your own design" but clearly the originals were designed by the companies named

Mike

[Jo]

I think we are digging a hole here.   

I believe Mike that you took the original drawings/concept of the Bristol Jupiter/Mercury engines and developed a much smaller design to enable you to produce a model design of your own. Full sized engines do not immediately scale there is a lot of work required to get a working much smaller model engine or a reasonable scale static model. Actually it may have been our mutual friend in the south of France who started the model design for at least one of those engines  But you are doing a substantial amount of design work to complete it.

I asked why this was Jason's original design rather than a copy of Stuart's design.

Jo

P.S. The last sets of Progress SH castings I saw sold for sale were £25 each. I call that cheap, others may disagree and think it was expensive.  I did not buy them 

[Vixen]

I think we are digging a hole here.   
          ...snip...
Jo

"digging a hole here" Yes, that's what I thought.
I was surprised you brought up the subject in the first place.
Perhaps there was a hidden agenda.   

Mike

[steamer]

Ok folks    either way it's a model steam engine.   Or amodel 4 stroke...what have you.    This hobby is down right small and we are the ones doing it.   Let's just support eachother .

He'll my VP heard I made small engines and thought I was into toy trains.    It's a wierd bunch we shed dwellers..and we do this for the first "Chuff" or Pop... and few understand that other than the members here.   So let's leave it now.

Dave