Author Topic: Recommended reading  (Read 2900 times)

Offline chark_mandler

  • Jr. member
  • **
  • Posts: 2
Recommended reading
« on: December 18, 2022, 11:24:28 PM »
I'm looking for some books on loco building, preferably in metric. The Kozo Hiraoka books look amazing and very accurate but are rare in the UK. I am an experienced engineer and have built several difficult stationary engines but am looking for a book and designs that are well proven and not full of errors. Something more complex than a Sweet Pea design.
Looking for metric as its getting harder to get certain materials in imperial in the UK.

Online Kim

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8106
  • Portland, Oregon, USA
Re: Recommended reading
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2022, 11:30:03 PM »
Hmm... I would still recommend any of Kozo's books.  I didn't realize they were hard to come by in the UK.  Most of his designs are metric except the New Shay and the Pennsy A3 Switcher. 

I'm sure there are other good books, but that's all I'm familiar with.
Kim

Offline crueby

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18987
  • Rochester NY
Re: Recommended reading
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2022, 12:28:15 AM »
The New Shay is also in metric, at least my copy is. All his books are still in print, can be ordered from the publisher, Village Press, if not found elsewhere.  Camden Miniature Steam carries them in UK.

https://camdenmin.co.uk/search?q=Kozo
« Last Edit: December 19, 2022, 12:31:44 AM by crueby »

Offline RReid

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1729
  • Northern California
Re: Recommended reading
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2022, 12:31:21 AM »
I have an eBook copy of Model & Miniature Locomotive Construction by Stan Bray. It's not a plans book, but it does cover methods of construction quite well. I believe I got my copy from Camden Miniatures in the UK.
https://camdenmin.co.uk/
« Last Edit: December 19, 2022, 02:30:53 AM by RReid »
Regards,
Ron

Offline chark_mandler

  • Jr. member
  • **
  • Posts: 2
Re: Recommended reading
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2022, 12:36:38 AM »
Thanks for the comments and recommendations.

Online Kim

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8106
  • Portland, Oregon, USA
Re: Recommended reading
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2022, 06:42:55 AM »
The New Shay is also in metric, at least my copy is. All his books are still in print, can be ordered from the publisher, Village Press, if not found elsewhere.  Camden Miniature Steam carries them in UK.

https://camdenmin.co.uk/search?q=Kozo
OK, I had to go check my books...  the Heisler plans are in inches as is the A3 Pennsy Switcher.  I was pretty sure that at least two of Kozo's books were in inches.

Kim

Offline Jasonb

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9550
  • Surrey, UK
Re: Recommended reading
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2022, 07:40:15 AM »
I think you will be very limited in what you can find in metric assuming you want the writing in English which rules out anything from Mainland Europe.

Designs that used to appear in Model Engineer and the  like were then published as a set of drawings but that has not happened for probably the last 15 years so what is available will still be largely imperial. Even if you do find a "metric" design it is likely to mix in things like ME threads for steam fittings as that is what is commercially available in the UK. The few recent ones that have been in metric may not be that well proven and apart from back issues certainly not available in book/plans form.

You are probably better off looking a proven designs that you like and then making allowances for available materials and converting anything else to suit your own working preferences.

The methods in books and magazine articles will apply to whatever system you work in so I would not let metric/imperial be the deciding factor in general Loco building literature

Offline Jo

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15326
  • Hampshire, england.
Re: Recommended reading
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2022, 11:09:03 AM »
Designs that used to appear in Model Engineer and the  like were then published as a set of drawings

ME used provide a "plans" service. When you get one of those plans you will find they do not comply with engineering drawing practise or any of the international drawing standards  :disappointed: But lets be honest they do not claim them to be drawings so we have no grounds to complain about those horrible fractions or their use of measurement units that were withdrawn before most of us were born  :old: And don't get me on their habit of cramming lots of different bits on one sheet  :facepalm:


For some reason most publications on model steam locomotives seem to have continued with imperialistic measurements. I have heard lots of excuses to support this but the bottom line is my calculator will convert between the legacy measurements and their modern equivalent. In most workshops our measurement devices/DROs are good to two decimal places so that will work, not forgetting those plans are designed for you to make bits that fit together rather than to accurate measurements  :facepalm2:

As for bar stock sizes: we normally machine all the surfaces so this should not be a bother. The only real issue is the thickness of the frames where you need to decide if you are going to space them out so the outside dimension is correct or space them in and adjust lengths of rods passing through the frames accordingly.


So really the question is: do you want to know the process of machining the parts and putting together model locomotives. Or are you looking for a specific book to follow step by step to build a locomotive from? In which case they are few and far between and yes Kozo's books are excellent and make reliable locos. But you really should be building something YOU want to build, otherwise you are highly likely to loose your enthusiasm as it is going to take years and years, not to mention the cost of a boiler  :-X.

Jo



 
Enjoyment is more important than achievement.

Offline Alex

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 49
Re: Recommended reading
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2022, 12:27:36 PM »
Kozos' books are great. I built the "first" Shay from the book, and here Crueby did the second - his pics are here on this site and he documented the build very well. (Thanks!!)

Nick Feast described his Q1 in Model Engineer (2010 timeframe) in metric, but with non-metric threads (at least partly?? from what I remember)

I also have plans from the Dutch magazine and drawing archive for the "DB 23" 2-6-2 in 3-1/2" gauge. Well described in the journal, in the 1990s but in Dutch.

There are quite a few articles/drawings in Europe for interesting locomotives, but I'm not sure exactly where to easily search for them. (anyone??)

I'd say that any of the Kozo books would be a "must have". He's leagues ahead of LBSC in terms of accuracy (having built an LBSC locomotive) and Martin Evans (finishing one of his designs now). Search for one of his books, I think they are worth it. I have all except the little A4 switcher.

Anyway, just my two cents.

 

Offline PJPickard

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 283
Re: Recommended reading
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2022, 12:32:59 PM »
Rather than a book how about old issues if Model Engineer where dozens of locomotives were serialized. A huge choice is available. Don Young, Martin Evans, Keith Wilson and many others wrote up builds. There is also plenty on the web about errors etc about these particular engines so you should have all the info you need. I'm partial to those by Young and Wilson just for their writing style!
I already have too many locos planned otherwise I would choose this one that Keith Wilson wrote up:
https://www.ajreeves.com/bulldog.html

Offline Chipswitheverything

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 564
Re: Recommended reading
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2022, 09:28:45 AM »
I confess to not having built a locomotive (yet..) but I would agree that the basis of information for locomotive model builds has overwhelmingly been via the magazines in the UK.  There are a few of LBSC's models, not that he would have allowed them to be referred to as such!, that were also published as books, but the designs are very ancient.
 Engineering in Miniature has published long running and comprehensive series as well as Model Engineer, and Don Young's erstwhile Locomotives Large and Small contain various write ups.  LLAS followed Don's designs, and a few by others such as Mike Casey's fine Isle of Man loco, with the notable series about the A3 "Doncaster " build, and interesting and comprehensive drawings presented.  Don seems to have taken particular concern that any mistakes were reported back to him for correction: in that he was very much the opposite of LBSC who would never acknowledge the possibility of having made an error, even when easily demonstrated by fact!   But certainly an exploration, if possible, of the many decades of magazine article series that are out there is more likely to be of interest and help than concentrating upon a look for the very few possibilities that books on the subject provide.  Dave

Offline Jo

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15326
  • Hampshire, england.
Re: Recommended reading
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2022, 10:07:13 AM »
Does anyone know how much a boiler for a 5" loco costs these days? The last price I had was about 10 years ago which was just under 5K for a large tender 5" loco boiler and the copper 7 1/4" boilers were a tad under 10K.  :paranoia:

It might colour your choice as to what to build  ::)

Jo
Enjoyment is more important than achievement.

Offline simplyloco

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 609
Re: Recommended reading
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2022, 10:09:35 AM »
I'd never built a locomotive before this one. I used LBSC's Words & Music throughout the build. I found the instructions straightforward and easy to follow. I didn't find any errors, and the design certainly wasn't 'ancient'. I still have the info, and can pass this on if asked.
BTW a TIG welded boiler - like the one in my loco- currently costs about 4K.


Strong minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, weak minds discuss people. ― Socrates

Offline Jo

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15326
  • Hampshire, england.
Re: Recommended reading
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2022, 11:45:34 AM »
If I remember correctly that is a 3 1/2" gauge  :old:

So that means 5" are getting  :o

Jo
Enjoyment is more important than achievement.

Offline Jasonb

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9550
  • Surrey, UK
Re: Recommended reading
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2022, 01:26:35 PM »
Jo, Our friend Fred has just had a price for a copper boiler for a 2" RS &J portable which was about 3300. it's 5" dia and not that long. I think that was from Helen, I suggested he also tried Paul.

I don't think it is just the ME (MAP, MHS, Sarik) published drawings that have those issues but just about every model engineering design. Unlikely anyone will take on the task of updating many of them as it would not make commercial sense so really comes doe  to follow what is there and proven or the individual has to redesign it.

As for stock, yes you may want to turn down critical items from larger but take something like a 3/16" stainless steel piston rod. 99.9 % of model engineers would use 3/16" stock rather than turn down 1/4" so for us metrically minded that means buying 5mm and altering the rod and mating parts to suit 5mm. Likewise if fabricating a brass fitting with a nominal 1/2" outer diameter I doubt many would turn that from 5/8" stock, Us fully metric types adjust things to suit 12mm stock. Converting to 4.7 or 12.7mm is OK if you can still get the stock that size or are happy to pay a premium for what is becoming harder to obtain imperial materials.

 

SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal