Looking to upgrade lathe - any personal experience here?

[matthew-s]

Hi - I have a Micromark 7x16" lathe. I expect this is simlar to the Little Machine Shop lathe of the same dimensions, and I'm led to believe it's incrementally better than the stock Sieg machine it's based on.

I'm really looking to get a higher quality machine. A bit bigger is nice too, but I'm really looking for something that just operates more smoothly and is more rigid.
Two considerations:
* I have a small basement shop - 8' x 12' so it CAN'T be big. I need to be able to get it down the basement steps too!
* I have a strong preference for new - I'd rather work my projects than fettle with an old machine.

My MAIN question is - are these machines just bigger, or are they also noticeably higher quality too? (more rigid, smoother operation & surface finish)?
I'm looking at these two machines.
I'm guessing there are people here that have moved into these from a 7x16. I'd be surprised, but pleased, if someone has had hands on both models!?!

- Precision Matthews 10x22: https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1022v-pm-1030v/
- Little Machine Shop High Torque  8.5x20: https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=7500&category=1271799306

Any and all experiences appreciated!

[Thor]

 I have a ten year old 11 x 27 lathe similar to the PM1127, mine has a 3-phase motor driven by an inverter. It has not given me any trouble so far, I like the wide bedways and the 1.5" hole through the spindle. It will occupy more room than a Mini Lathe but if you can fit it into your shop that would be my recommendation. A friend has a 10 x 22 but an old version with 20mm hole through the spindle and a brushed DC motor that is a bit weak when running slow. You won't get a Hardinge or a Monarch but my Chinese 11 x 27 has served me well.

Thor

[ShopShoe]

I don't have any hands-on experience with either lathe, but I do have some input.

Precision-Mathews has been mentioned by some of the people I follow on YouTube. The opinions in general say it is a higher quality Asian brand. These are people who have a wide variety of experience with many machines, including the larger industrial production lathes. I just throw this out without any evidence, so take it with a grain of salt.

I have one of the 7x Mini-Lathes modified into someting like yours. I would say the LMS 8.5x would be a good single step up, with just a little more capacity in each feature. One feature it has, that I wish the 7x had, is the power cross-feed. I also think that you could use a lot of your tooling and accessories with the 8.5. Clickspring on youTube has the SIEG SC4, which is the same as the LMS 8.5. If you don't know him, he does astounding things with small and simple tools and machines.

Myself, I would like to upgrade  or add to my 7x with a lathe beyond the 8.5, like a 12 x 36 or so, but I would also have to have more in tooling and accesories to get full value from it, plus I would need much more space.

ShopShoe

[matthew-s]

Thanks. Helpful posts.
The fortunately a 12x lathe will be too big. I’m scratching my head over how I’ll get a nearly 400 pound machine into the house and down basement steps …

From what I gather the new PM 10x22 has a brushless dc motor and 25.4mm bore which is good.

I keep wondering if these are indeed higher quality / more stout machines than the 7x lathes (just bigger work envelope), or are they also “a lathe kit” that needs finishing?

[Jasonb]

I to have a 11 x 28 and although the finish may not be the best the work that can be done on them is fine. This is some of what comes off mine. They are certainly a lot more rigid due to their extra mass and if stripped down a bit can be manhandled.

The 250 models (10 x 22) are also quite popular here and are all likely to come out of th same factory.

[matthew-s]

I to have a 11 x 28 and although the finish may not be the best the work that can be done on them is fine. This is some of what comes off mine.

Nice work, you are quite the prolific builder!

This thread is helping me figure out that it is I’m trying to accomplish here.
I suppose what I’m really trying to sort out is : if the work envelope of my 7x16 is is big enough for my projects, am I better off continuing to try to keep fiddling with my current lathe, or would I end up in a better place faster by moving into the the machines I listed in my first post?

I’m sort of surprised nobody that has one of these two machines has stumbled into this thread yet! Hopefully I’ll get lucky 🍀.

[Craig DeShong]

I have a Grissly G4003, several of my machinist friends have the same lathe.  A good solid machine for hobby work.  None of us have had trouble with the machine.  I’ve had mine ten years now, some owned by my friends are over 30 years old.

[Hugh Currin]

I have a PM1022 but bought it specifically to convert to CNC. I just got that finished so haven't done much work with it. However:

I think the 10x22 is going to be a good small lathe. It's not as capable as my Taiwanese 14" lathe but the 14" is way too big and heavy for your needs. I do find the 10x22 way better than the Sherline. Nothing against the Sherline but, for me, it is too light although of good quality. The 10x22 is heavier and more capable.

For the shop this machine is for the size of the lathe needed to be small. A 10" lathe fit the space well. I didn't think going below this would be heavy and robust enough. I think the jump from a mini-lathe to the PM1022 would be a great improvement. Although please note I've not used a mini-lathe.

I liked the PM1022 because of the T-slotted cross slide and "quick change" spindle mount. For a manual machine the power cross feed of the PM1022 would be an advantage. The several Grizzly machines lack these features. Although, one Grizzly has an induction motor with VFD. I figured if the PM1022 was under powered I could put a new motor and VFD on after purchase.

I spent hours looking for a better quality lathe in this 10" size range. An 11" may be a different story but I couldn't get one to fit. A 12" lathe would be a great size for hobby use, at least for the parts I do, but that's a much bigger machine. I believe a Taiwanese machine would be a quality improvement but don't think anyone makes one of these.

My PM1022 is a little rough, i.e. not swiss quality. But is does function well and I'm happy with the purchase. I think you're right, Precision Matthews is one of the better Chinese quality machines.

So, this doesn't say much but I hope it is of some use in your search. If you have questions of the PM1022 I may be able to answer them.

Thanks.

[matthew-s]

I spent hours looking for a better quality lathe in this 10" size range. An 11" may be a different story but I couldn't get one to fit. A 12" lathe would be a great size for hobby use, at least for the parts I do, but that's a much bigger machine. I believe a Taiwanese machine would be a quality improvement but don't think anyone makes one of these.

My PM1022 is a little rough, i.e. not swiss quality. But is does function well and I'm happy with the purchase. I think you're right, Precision Matthews is one of the better Chinese quality machines.

So, this doesn't say much but I hope it is of some use in your search. If you have questions of the PM1022 I may be able to answer them.

Thanks.

This is super appreciated - even the part that confirms in this class, there really is not much.  Did you compare this to the LMS 8.5x20 by any chance?

Congrats on the completed conversion. Let us know how things look as you put your new lathe in service. Funny you should mention the Tiwanese machines. I an really eyeing the PM 728VT mill. It made me wonder what a complimentary Tiwanese lathe would look like/cost - I'm not aware of one on the market. I wonder if that's a twinkle in PM's eye.

Frankly, I kind of want to get the mill first, bit given my shop arrangement, I want the lathe behind the mill. The size of my little shop might make it really hard to put the lathe in after the mill! 

[Hugh Currin]

Congrats on the completed conversion. Let us know how things look as you put your new lathe in service. Funny you should mention the Tiwanese machines. I an really eyeing the PM 728VT mill. It made me wonder what a complimentary Tiwanese lathe would look like/cost - I'm not aware of one on the market. I wonder if that's a twinkle in PM's eye.

Along with the PM1022 lathe I got a PM728 bench mill. The uptick in quality from the 1022 to the 728 is noticeable. I would recommend the PM728 (as well as the PM1022) if space is tight (like mine was). For both these machines a little more mass would be nice, but again if space is a real issue... I used the CNC conversion kit from PM for the 728, which contains the mechanical but none of the electronics. This kit fit easily and I'm impressed with it.

Be sure to let us know what you end up with. Thanks.

[Alex]

Years ago there was a guy in Toronto who planned how to move a large Emco lathe into his basement. His wife did not want that thing going through the house…

Everything ready, he was sitting reading something like the newspaper or a magazine.

then when his wife went out shopping for a few hours; front entrance carpeting pulled back, lathe brought in, lifted with chain hoist, floor and beams cut, lathe lowered, then front entrance put back together.

Said his wife never noticed how it got down there… he got the lathe he wanted.

Where there is a will, there is a way, fortunately my partner has no problem with my hobby. 

[matthew-s]

Years ago there was a guy in Toronto who planned how to move a large Emco lathe into his basement. His wife did not want that thing going through the house…

Everything ready, he was sitting reading something like the newspaper or a magazine.

then when his wife went out shopping for a few hours; front entrance carpeting pulled back, lathe brought in, lifted with chain hoist, floor and beams cut, lathe lowered, then front entrance put back together.

Said his wife never noticed how it got down there… he got the lathe he wanted.

Where there is a will, there is a way, fortunately my partner has no problem with my hobby. 

Funny - that is stuff out of a spy movie. Fortunately for the kinds of models I'm currently intersted in - say 3/4" scale live steam - the 10" swing should be plenty - so long as it's a quality item that works out of the box.

[crueby]

Great story Alex!  Now, if he was thinking ahead to buying the matching mill, he would have hinged the panel in the floor and put in a handle. Though that may have been a give-away to what he did...

[matthew-s]

Be sure to let us know what you end up with. Thanks.

Well, slightly off the topic, but to provide an update I placed a worded last night for the PM 728VT mill

Honestly, I want (need?) both a lathe and mill update. The stand for the PM 1022 lathe is back ordered so it pushed me over the edge in this direction. 

I will revisit the lathe question before too long. This thread will come in handy.

Next is to create a plan of attack for getting it into the basement that does not end with me in the hospital!

(Edited to note I ordered the 728 mill. Not the larger 727M)

[Hugh Currin]

Congratulations on ordering the mill. They are nice and I'm sure you'll enjoy it. And don't hurt yourself.

I ordered my PM1022 lathe with the stand. I really didn't like the stand. Ended up building a heavy wood rolling bench for it. Right now the blue stand is holding my Sherline, no problem with that weight. Where are you? I have a stand for you real cheap.

Would you get a reduction in shipping if you ordered the mill and lathe together? Still might come at different times so no sharing a ride.

Exciting times!

Honestly, I want (need?) both a lathe and mill update. The stand for the PM 1022 lathe is back ordered so it pushed me over the edge in this direction.