Author Topic: Investment Casting from 3D prints, Round II, Some Filament Success  (Read 4976 times)

Offline Mcgyver

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Investment Casting from 3D prints, Round II, Some Filament Success
« on: September 01, 2022, 04:51:48 PM »
Lots going on in my casting adventures, months of effort setting up and mastering (cleanly and with no odor) SLA printing.  Still have some challenges with getting a decent print that will correctly burn out, not cost an arm and leg and will burn out a temp low enough that the investment can handle it, but I am close to success there (after many fails).

Meanwhile, I did the following casting from a filament print the other day.  I've concluded the Print2Cast filament is just garbage.  It burns out beautifully but it is impossible to achieve good bed adhesion and bottom inevitably peels up and warps.  I had some success with the dog my son and I cast, but it wasn't a mechanical item so a slightly warped bottom didn't matter.  If someone has the silver bullet for that material, I'm all ears

What I found works fantastically is Polycast filament.  Probably the easily and best filament I've printed with and it burns out prefectly.

The story in photos

I tried everything with Print2Cast.  With each I tried several times with different bed temps, enclosure/no enclosure etc (had to make the bloody enclosure of course)....this whole process was very frustrating



Prusa's PEI bedplate (heated) which is excellent for most everything else



Painters tape



PET tape



hair spray (even imported a special one someone recommended that was suppose to have the right combination of chemicals, what BS)



FR4, another supposed miracle solution



I even tried emery cloth thinking it might possibly form a mechanical bond



Then I thought an enclosure might help....so I made one, and tried it all again. (hey, no comments on the looks, its "experimental" :) )



I'm afraid I have to admit defeat on this awful material.  Grrrr.

Then I tried Polycast by Polymaker, the storm clouds parted and golden rays of sunshine entered my basement.  This stuff prints and burns out like a dream.   The only issue with it is is that its extremely moisture sensitive.  To the extent that it will pull moisture from the air and crack and pop as it goes through the hot extruder and the moisture boils.  I avoid all issues by running a dehumidifier at its lowest setting (30%) with the door to the room closed.  Polycast calls for 20% RH, but there was not issue with 30%.

In addition, its surface can be smoothed with exposure to alcohol mist (IPA not Glenmorangie, its the Print2Cast material you need that kind of alcohol for).  That holds potential but I didn't bother....their mister seems a bit silly and expensive and I haven't bother to make on yet)



it comes in a vacuum resealable bag and if exposed to moisture can be fixed by baking it (as per mfg's instructions)



Great print





You need sticky wax (made in myself, rosin and beeswax) to get it stick to a wax sprure





mounted to the base




and fills my largest flask!



investment mixed, poured and ready for vacuuming.  The investment mixing is an exact thing, weights of water and invest to better than 1% as well as water temperature.



My casting set up has a number of improvements since the inital cast last December.  I made the vent system which temporarily fits in a window  (you can't believe how the house stunk after a 3D wax print burnout with a vent).  The pick up sits above the oven just the right amount (the goals being 1) get all the fumes coming out of the oven, 2) don't create a draw through the oven and 3) pull in enough room temp air that the vent stays cool)

I also placed the oven on some pieces of small angle iron, it creates a heat break between it and the vent.

I used a cheapo pid with a USB connection (thermomart).  While the software and instructions are probably the worst mankind has ever seen, truly remarkable, its still about 1,000,000 times better than keying in segments 4 button key pad.  The PID industry is, for some reason, stuck in the late 1970's electronics interface wise.



This isn't the actual flask, but the story would be a lunch bag let down without the obligatory red hot burnout shot. 



After the pour (flask is in the vacuum caster which sucks the metal through out the cavity).  Notice the cracks in the investment.  This I think is my fault.  You are suppose to to start the burn out cycle, about 16 hours, two hours after pouring the investment.  Life got in the way and instead it sat for a week, a no-no.

Casting was done with the AL at 735C and the mold at 400C





The moment of truth is nigh!  The flask is allowed to cool for 15-20 minutes and will still over boilding temperature is plunged into water.  The boiling really helps break up the investment



....and did it work?  Mostly, fairly well.  A few issues, but a workable part.  It was a huge effort to make it this far, and while there is still room for improvement, it is quite a thrill to go from computer screen to cast metal part in one's basement.  Its a part that would be extremely difficult to make other with investment (cores...and where would you part it) which adds to the fun; new possiblities










There is a lot porosity in one spot



and the investment cracks lead to some flash (that 3 minutes of fettling took care of)



And what the heck is it?  A bracket to support  table that will let me use the horizontal bandsaw as a vertical band saw





















 

 
« Last Edit: September 02, 2022, 01:55:09 PM by Mcgyver »

Offline crueby

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Re: Investment Casting from 3D prints, Round II, Some Filament Success
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2022, 05:05:35 PM »
Looks like you tried most everything - did you try the glue stick too? That works on most materials, never tried anything like wax. Glad you found another filiment that works better, very interesting!

Offline A7er

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Re: Investment Casting from 3D prints, Round II, Some Filament Success
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2022, 05:06:29 PM »
Do you have more printing/casting planned? I am very interested in this process.
Did you try using a raft with the Print2Cast? I've never tried printing with anything other than pla, and now, resin.
Nicely done. Lee

Online Kim

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Re: Investment Casting from 3D prints, Round II, Some Filament Success
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2022, 05:22:44 PM »
That part came out really nicely!  And what a fascinating process.  You have documented it really well and walked us through many of your trials (I'm sure there were more than you relay here too!).

Thanks for posing this. It is really interesting.  This just looks like such a cool process!

Kim

Offline Mcgyver

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Re: Investment Casting from 3D prints, Round II, Some Filament Success
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2022, 06:11:05 PM »
Thanks for the positive remarks!

Do you have more printing/casting planned? I am very interested in this process.
Did you try using a raft with the Print2Cast?

Lots and lots more. 

Raft was tried.  Chris, when I did the dog (thread here from Dec) we tried glue sticks, didn't work.  A challenge is when you go searching for bed adhesion solutions, everyone you find is presenting what might be good solutions, but for less challenging materials....but like the drowning man spying a straw, you feel compelled to try.   Now, with the success of Polycast, the only reason for bothering to pursue it is to avoid wasting the roll of print2cast.  I posted about it so others can avoid the pain, or on the chance someone does know how to make it work.

Current efforts are around investment casting resin printed items.  I've found resin that prints beautifully and resin that burns out well, but never in the save resin (both specifically being castable resins).  The ones that burnout well often print with lots of distortion or break off mid print (to much adhesion on the film is think the problem, PTfE seems to improve it.  The resin that prints beautifully needs a burn out temp higher than the gypsum based investment can withstand.   

You can solve the problem with money, $300/l resins and $10/pound high temp investments (the stuff I'm using is like $70/l and $1.10/ lb).  As a hobby guy with lots of Scot blood that just isn't happening! 

All of this knowledge is very hard to obtain.  Investment and lost wax casting are well trodden ground, and 3D printing is getting there, but the amateur combination of the two is rarer.  So its time consuming trial and error.....but its potential keeps me engaged. 

I just bought but haven't tried, some investment specifically for resin.  Its no better temperature wise, but apparently when resin burns out it expands and this investment is stronger and withstand the pressure.  Some mold failure using the resin that did burn out well is my current issue.  If that work I want to try casting bronze, which is suppose to hold a few of its own challenges.  If I can investment cast bronze, I'll very pleased!   I want to try some stuff like this in bronze...

To give an idea of size, the handwheel is just of 1" diameter, and the smallest pipe fittings are for 1/8" OD tube











« Last Edit: September 01, 2022, 06:16:21 PM by Mcgyver »

Online wagnmkr

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Re: Investment Casting from 3D prints, Round II, Some Filament Success
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2022, 07:31:40 PM »
In my trials and tribulations with 3d printing, I found that a glass plate with a thin coating of hair spray worked the best. That was mainly for pla and petg . Sometimes it worked too well and one time it actually pulled up a small chunk of glass with the part. I sometimes wish I had kept that printer as it was fun .

Your casting shows amazing surface detail.
I was cut out to be rich ... but ... I was sewn up all wrong!

Offline bent

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Re: Investment Casting from 3D prints, Round II, Some Filament Success
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2022, 11:04:45 PM »
Gotta respect the CAD* for your enclosure, no shame there.

Following along...maybe someday I will invest in a 3d printer...
 :popcorn:

*Cardboard Aided Design

Offline A7er

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Re: Investment Casting from 3D prints, Round II, Some Filament Success
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2022, 11:22:03 PM »
I will try to include a link to a youtube video that I've just watched. I didn't think it would turn out as good as it did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ve-2oNve_iE

Lee

 

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