Author Topic: Chris's Build of Battleship Ohio Engine  (Read 117292 times)

Offline crueby

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18554
  • Rochester NY
Re: Chris's Build of Battleship Ohio Engine
« Reply #90 on: August 14, 2022, 02:00:33 AM »
Before getting the Ohio engine plans I had been looking at the Liberty Ship plans, that also looks like an interesting engine. Do you have any plans for one? I was able to find partial ones, but not enough to build from.

Live Steam had an extensive series back in 1980 or so on the Liberty ships, including a lot of details about the engine. Quite a few detailed prints included, but not really a full set.

I built a triple based on the well-known OB Bolton plans as modified by J. P. Bertinat, with some further modifications based on the Liberty ship drawings. No castings used. All bar stock.

Gene
Sounds great, can you post a picture of your engine? Always fun to see engine pics!

Offline derekwarner

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 833
  • Wollongong ...... Australia
Re: Chris's Build of Battleship Ohio Engine
« Reply #91 on: August 15, 2022, 06:56:42 AM »
So Chris notes....

" Each section is flipped end for end from the one next to it, and also rotated some multiple of 90 degrees"

Acknowledged that I have never worked on, or even seen such period engines, however the crankshaft pin orientation appears to provide the inlet/expansion sequence to cylinders to be........ 1 -> 3  -> 2 -> 4.....does this align with your thoughts?

Maybe it's best to scrap this sketch and replace it with the nomenclature  :atcomputer: Cylinders [1 - 2 - 3 - 4], then....

add a text note 1324  :shrug: ....or 1/1 - 2/3 - 3/2 - 4/4.....

Do we all understand this?...... :hammerbash:      :ROFL:

Derek
« Last Edit: August 15, 2022, 11:34:56 AM by derekwarner »
Derek L Warner - Honorary Secretary [Retired]
Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op - Australia
www.ils.org.au

Offline lohring

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 163
Re: Chris's Build of Battleship Ohio Engine
« Reply #92 on: August 15, 2022, 03:09:12 PM »
An excellent book on naval equipment is Naval Machinery  available at https://www.amazon.com/Naval-Machinery-United-States-Institute/dp/B000MLGOJI/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2I053BI74K4PQ&keywords=naval+machinery&qid=1660571863&s=books&sprefix=naval+machinery%2Cstripbooks%2C215&sr=1-1  The triple expansion battleship engine described in the book is more modern than your engine.  However, you may be interested in the detailed description of all the parts.  I think that engine described may be from the battle ship Texas, the only reciprocating engine battleship still in commission at the beginning of WW II.  See https://www.asme.org/about-asme/engineering-history/landmarks/10-uss-texas-reciprocating-steam-engines

Lohring Miller

Offline crueby

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18554
  • Rochester NY
Re: Chris's Build of Battleship Ohio Engine
« Reply #93 on: August 15, 2022, 06:04:25 PM »
So Chris notes....

" Each section is flipped end for end from the one next to it, and also rotated some multiple of 90 degrees"

Acknowledged that I have never worked on, or even seen such period engines, however the crankshaft pin orientation appears to provide the inlet/expansion sequence to cylinders to be........ 1 -> 3  -> 2 -> 4.....does this align with your thoughts?

Maybe it's best to scrap this sketch and replace it with the nomenclature  :atcomputer: Cylinders [1 - 2 - 3 - 4], then....

add a text note 1324  :shrug: ....or 1/1 - 2/3 - 3/2 - 4/4.....

Do we all understand this?...... :hammerbash:      :ROFL:

Derek
Hi Derek,

Um, no. Remember that these are double-acting cylinders, not like on a gas engine, so it doesn't matter if the stroke direction is up or down, they do power both ways, and the exhaust from both ends of one are linked to the inlet valve on the next one - that is the key.  On the final two cylinders, which are both LP cylinders, the exhaust from cylinder 2, the IP cylinder, goes to the inlet of BOTH LP cylinders so they can 'fire' in any order.
Does that make sense? There is probably an animation of this online somewhere for a four cylinder triple expansion if not.
Also, its impossible to tell from the picture I posted just of the engine bed, but the high pressure (#1 cylinder) is on the right, LP's are on the left. That doesn't effect the question or my answer, but it will keep things clearer later on as more parts get added!

Chris
« Last Edit: August 15, 2022, 06:14:45 PM by crueby »

Offline crueby

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18554
  • Rochester NY
Re: Chris's Build of Battleship Ohio Engine
« Reply #94 on: August 15, 2022, 06:12:29 PM »
An excellent book on naval equipment is Naval Machinery  available at https://www.amazon.com/Naval-Machinery-United-States-Institute/dp/B000MLGOJI/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2I053BI74K4PQ&keywords=naval+machinery&qid=1660571863&s=books&sprefix=naval+machinery%2Cstripbooks%2C215&sr=1-1  The triple expansion battleship engine described in the book is more modern than your engine.  However, you may be interested in the detailed description of all the parts.  I think that engine described may be from the battle ship Texas, the only reciprocating engine battleship still in commission at the beginning of WW II.  See https://www.asme.org/about-asme/engineering-history/landmarks/10-uss-texas-reciprocating-steam-engines

Lohring Miller
Looks like a very interesting book - did a search over in Google Books, they have the 1946 edition that you can read/download! There are some things on the barring engine on the plans I have that I want to look up some more details on, also some things on the reversing engine. And thats just so far!
Thanks for the tip!!
Chris :cheers:

Offline internal_fire

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 204
  • Punta Gorda, FL
Re: Chris's Build of Battleship Ohio Engine
« Reply #95 on: August 15, 2022, 07:27:33 PM »
There is probably an animation of this online somewhere for a four cylinder triple expansion

The Titanic had four-cylinder triple-expansion engines. There is quite a bit of stuff around the web related to the Titanic.

Not the same engines, of course, but a good introduction for anyone reading this who does not need the correct details to build the BB-12 engines.

Gene

Offline crueby

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18554
  • Rochester NY
Re: Chris's Build of Battleship Ohio Engine
« Reply #96 on: August 15, 2022, 08:46:02 PM »
There is probably an animation of this online somewhere for a four cylinder triple expansion

The Titanic had four-cylinder triple-expansion engines. There is quite a bit of stuff around the web related to the Titanic.

Not the same engines, of course, but a good introduction for anyone reading this who does not need the correct details to build the BB-12 engines.

Gene
Gene very kindly sent me some info on the Liberty Ship engines, which while a different engine than the Ohio it shares a lot of features. Already came in handy to explain (to me) how the crosshead guide rails are shaped, all the lines were there in the Ohio drawings but I couldn't wrap my head around the third dimension for part of it.
Thanks very much!  Am sure there will be more - always helps to look at pictures of similar engine designs.
 :cheers:

Offline crueby

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18554
  • Rochester NY
Re: Chris's Build of Battleship Ohio Engine
« Reply #97 on: August 16, 2022, 08:01:17 PM »
After having my brain kickstarted by seeing the closeup pics of the Liberty Ship engine, I went back and drew up the details on the crosshead guides. There is a rail either side that wraps around the plate that sticks out the back of the crosshead (red arrows)

Those rails were all shown in the drawing sheets, but the same views also had the piston rod and con rod in place, and the lines of the gap in the rails was hidden, and there was no top view of the guides. Having seen the photos of the other engine, the arrangement clicked into the 'well, thats obvious' category!  :old:

Having that drawn in pointed out that I had the oil cups on the wrong side of the small end bearing holders, and they would have interfered with the crosshead guide caps, so I moved them around the other side (green arrow) as well. These cups get dripped into by the oiler lines that hang from the cylinders, and would have tubes running down to the big end bearings.
Next time I add more parts, I think they will be the crossheads themselves.

Offline crueby

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18554
  • Rochester NY
Re: Chris's Build of Battleship Ohio Engine
« Reply #98 on: August 16, 2022, 08:21:41 PM »
An excellent book on naval equipment is Naval Machinery  available at https://www.amazon.com/Naval-Machinery-United-States-Institute/dp/B000MLGOJI/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2I053BI74K4PQ&keywords=naval+machinery&qid=1660571863&s=books&sprefix=naval+machinery%2Cstripbooks%2C215&sr=1-1  The triple expansion battleship engine described in the book is more modern than your engine.  However, you may be interested in the detailed description of all the parts.  I think that engine described may be from the battle ship Texas, the only reciprocating engine battleship still in commission at the beginning of WW II.  See https://www.asme.org/about-asme/engineering-history/landmarks/10-uss-texas-reciprocating-steam-engines

Lohring Miller
Looks like a very interesting book - did a search over in Google Books, they have the 1946 edition that you can read/download! There are some things on the barring engine on the plans I have that I want to look up some more details on, also some things on the reversing engine. And thats just so far!
Thanks for the tip!!
Chris :cheers:
Been doing some more reading in that book, it has great explanations of the reversing engine, it operates almost like a servo on a RC rig, moving the piston to match the position of the control arm. At first I was wondering if the second smaller piston above the larger one was some sort of compounding, but it actually has a oil-filled cylinder, piston inside, with small passages end to end, to make it act like a shock absorber, slowing the motion of the reversing piston without effecting its final position. Very cool stuff!

Offline crueby

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18554
  • Rochester NY
Re: Chris's Build of Battleship Ohio Engine
« Reply #99 on: August 17, 2022, 12:41:14 AM »
Some more playing in Fusion, got the crossheads made, they are a pretty simple shape. After adding them to the all-the-components file, added the joint controllers for them and tried a quick animation to see how things look:
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMRjx20wDwU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMRjx20wDwU</a>
All looks good!   :cartwheel:

Offline cnr6400

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2728
Re: Chris's Build of Battleship Ohio Engine
« Reply #100 on: August 17, 2022, 03:03:22 AM »
Man, I'd love to see the real full size engine making revolutions for flank speed! Must have been magnificent.

One thing I noticed in the video - the small end caps and nuts might be giving the crosshead guide bar studs and nuts a shave and a haircut.... :o I only mention it as item 22,394 to keep an eye on in the build!  :Lol::cheers:
"I've cut that stock three times, and it's still too short!"

Offline crueby

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18554
  • Rochester NY
Re: Chris's Build of Battleship Ohio Engine
« Reply #101 on: August 17, 2022, 03:31:42 AM »
Man, I'd love to see the real full size engine making revolutions for flank speed! Must have been magnificent.

One thing I noticed in the video - the small end caps and nuts might be giving the crosshead guide bar studs and nuts a shave and a haircut.... :o I only mention it as item 22,394 to keep an eye on in the build!  :Lol: :cheers:
I'd be right there next to you watching it go! Going to have to get a ride on that Liberty Ship they take out from Baltimore next year, smaller but close!




I noticed the same thing, and measured the gap between the crosshead and the flanges, there is actually a minimum of a couple inches there, closest as it angles over in mid stroke. It looks so small since those parts are so large. I had already seen that the oil cups would have been shredded off and put them on the other side.


There are several places on the plans where the dimensions are hard to read, is that a 5 or 3, a 0 or 9? Redrawing it all in 3D CAD actually makes most obvious as to what they are.

Offline Admiral_dk

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3752
  • Søften - Denmark
Re: Chris's Build of Battleship Ohio Engine
« Reply #102 on: August 17, 2022, 11:57:34 AM »
Great Animation + amount of work put into the 3D Model so far (all those details)  :ThumbsUp:

 :popcorn:    :popcorn:  :cheers:   .... eh .... Double Up (two builds)  :cheers:  :popcorn:  :cheers:

Per

Offline sid pileski

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 162
Re: Chris's Build of Battleship Ohio Engine
« Reply #103 on: August 17, 2022, 04:59:47 PM »
Chris- do you have a link to the google addition you found?

Thanks, Sid


 

SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal