Author Topic: 4 Part Video Series About The Current Myford Lathes  (Read 3904 times)

Offline Overbuilt and Overkill

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4 Part Video Series About The Current Myford Lathes
« on: July 30, 2022, 10:46:26 PM »
Hopefully no one here has already provided a posted link to these videos elsewhere in this forum. While I've never owned or used any Myford lathe, there's some here who have them. And at one time not that long ago there lathes were pretty much the universal standard for Model Engineer's, at least in the U.K. they were. The ML 7 and Super 7 are also about the most adaptable lathe I know of with probably hundreds of modifications and improvements designed and built by users including J.A. Radford and G.H. Thomas detailed in the Model Engineer magazines and books over the years.

Part 1 <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dTQsSs-Nzs" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dTQsSs-Nzs</a>

Part 2 <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyzsJRZPE7I" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyzsJRZPE7I</a>

Part 3 <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk8lHNAzpYo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk8lHNAzpYo</a>

Part 4 <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmccytgX058" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmccytgX058</a>

Unfortunately and imo the videos are all mostly a fluff piece and could have been much more informative had they shown how the lathes actually get machined, ground and assembled while maintaining the critical 3 dimensional alignments and then each area properly checked. What there in house quality controls and allowable + - deviations really are would sell far more machines than what the very limited details in the videos present. There is a bit about the history and some early details about the start of Myford Lathes I hadn't known before. For anyone with a Myford, the spare parts availability and rebuild option might be of some use. I also thought the few details about the method they use today for embedding the dro scales and reader heads inside the cross slide was of interest and could be of use for doing the same on other brands of lathes as well.   

Offline Chipswitheverything

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Re: 4 Part Video Series About The Current Myford Lathes
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2022, 08:15:35 AM »
Agree that these videos provide little information that a flick through a few brochures would not give.  Curiously, it doesn't say where the current Myfords are being produced.
 I was lucky, when I was a student in Nottingham in the early/mid 1970's , and had an ML7 lathe back then  ( a Super 7B from 1976, still my current lathe...) to be given the privilege of a tour of the Myford works at Beeston, not far from Notts University, accompanied by Cecil Moore, the founder of Myford.  Mr Moore was then quite an elderly man, but was still active in the factory, which was extensive, with castings aging in the yard and every part of the machining process being done on the site, through to packing and despatch.  At that time the industrial grinders were being made there also, and used for aspects of the lathe manufacture.  It was a fascinating glimpse into the company that has given me and so many other model engineers such interest and capacity.   Dave

Offline Overbuilt and Overkill

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Re: 4 Part Video Series About The Current Myford Lathes
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2022, 07:43:22 PM »
Yes I'm quite sure that would have been a very fascinating tour of the original Myford's Dave. I'm a bit envious.  :) Google indicates the current Myford head office as Mytholmroyd, West Yorkshire. I'm unsure if that's also where and what appears to be a pretty small and limited in house part production, part storage, painting, grinding and assembly area might be. Videos can sometimes show false surface finishes, but the condition of the internal tail stock bore shown in the #3 video at the 3:52 mark seems to be quite a bit worse than what I'd expect for what would almost for sure be an internally ground and honed to finish size high precision bore. They have added the option of a full poly V belt drive and VFD which should provide an extremely smooth running machine.

But going by at least what's shown in these videos and what I can find on their web site, it seems their still using the same threaded spindle nose as the only version. Yes it works well enough and has proven so on probably 100's of thousands of various lathe sizes & brands. There's obviously better, and even more so with that VFD where the lathe might be run in reverse, or use the almost instant braking it's capable of. For at least the Connoisseur large bore model and maybe available on the others, they kept the clutch. A smart choice imo and something seriously lacking on many of today's larger industrial lathes. It's naive to think it's possible to obtain good long term durability and high accuracy at a low price. But at almost 11,000 BPS for a lightly equipped large bore Connoisseur, it's the same problem the original Myford factory had before they closed the doors for good and that high price for what is essentially a 7" lathe. Surprisingly it seems there's enough well heeled buyers around who can keep this smaller company of the same brand going. I wish them well and I'd love to have one as a second lathe, but unfortunately there well outside what I can afford.




Offline Chipswitheverything

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Re: 4 Part Video Series About The Current Myford Lathes
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2022, 10:08:50 AM »
Thanks for the reply and comment.   Yes, I find the price of the recent high spec "Myfords" a bit extraordinary.  By contrast, here in the UK, I have seen some s/h ,nice, power cross feed and gear-box examples tending to be sold more cheaply than used to be the case, particularly the "grey" era ones rather than the "green" ones.  If carefully used just by a model engineer from new ( like mine! ), their condition can be excellent and represent a good buy, particularly if they have good make, Burnerd, Pratt,  chucks and so on.  I suspect that the age profile of model engineers has released quite a few good examples in recent times....   Dave

Online Jo

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Re: 4 Part Video Series About The Current Myford Lathes
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2022, 03:14:27 PM »
A bit of the early history:

Myford lathes were designed and built in an old Lacemaking factory in Nottingham. If you find an old Myford advert you will see it calls the factory building the "Neville Works":



Who was this "Neville" and how did the building end up as an engineering works?

Charles and William Neville were (machine) lacemakers who built themselves a substantial lacemaking factory in Beeston in 1880. Their aim with such a large building was to attract local Lacemakers as tenants as well as to house their own lacemaking activities. A recognisable feature of this building was the large windows and the lantern roof where the bobbins were wound. Power was supplied to the building by means of a boiler and steam engine, with the boiler also providing hot water to heat the building. The Lacemaking trade did well but over the interwar years lacemaking fell on hard times and the building was sublet to tenants of other trades.

Tennents began to include engineering companies which may well have been a result of Ralph Neville's (son of original builder) life-long interest in engineering and model engine making  8) Ralph would have clearly recognised that there was a need for a small inexpensive lathe for metal work and I wonder how much of an influence he had in what was to come  :thinking:. In 1934 Cecil Moore, who had himself worked as a lacemaker in his earlier years, started up the firm that was to eventually to take over the whole factory in the lantern space: Myford Engineering Limited. By the 1950's Myford was the sole occupier of the building and it was commonly known locally as the "Myford's Factory".

So why did someone with the name Moore call his company "Myford"? It was his grandmother's maiden name  ;)

Myford continued trading at the Beeston factory until 2011 when it was liquidated and the owners of RDG brought out the rights, spares and patterns for producing the lathes.


The beautiful Neville Lacemaking factory was recently demolished  >:( and is now another modern housing estate and the only clue to its former glory is the name of one of the roads  :'(

Jo
« Last Edit: August 02, 2022, 07:29:25 AM by Jo »
Enjoyment is more important than achievement.

Offline Overbuilt and Overkill

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Re: 4 Part Video Series About The Current Myford Lathes
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2022, 01:27:43 AM »
Ok let's try it again since this site went offline while trying to make my last post.  :Mad:

Yes I'd agree, even from here in North America I've watched those prices drop a bit for excellent condition lightly used Super 7's compared to even 5-8 years ago Dave. I keep a random check on the Home & Workshop Machinery web site for general information even though there prices would be at the higher end. If I was in the UK? I think finding one of those and adding the big bore head stock, spindle, poly V belt drive and that VFD option would still be much, much cheaper than one of the factory new Connoisseur models.  South Bend over here probably went out of business due to the closing of the majority of high school shop classes since they were always a huge part of SB's customer base. Without that I think they had to close the doors for much the same reasons Myford did. The production costs got well above what most individuals were willing to pay. I also suspect the very high prices for those new Myfords still doesn't leave much of a profit ratio considering what those castings, grinding and machining of each part now does to the bottom line. And less today appreciate what that accuracy and durability really is compared to any sub 1,000 British pound lathe shaped object from the far east. Roughly 20? yrs ago the original Myford business had a factory rebuilt long bed Super 7 once owned by George Thomas. I almost bought it due to it's history and my respect for George. That threaded spindle & small through hole still turned me off enough I decided against doing so because I wanted to use it and not make some kind of shrine out of it. Sometimes I still regret that choice.

Thank you Jo, while I did know the original Myford location was in Nottingham, I don't recall seeing pictures of the actual building, hearing the history, or knowing the origins of where that Myford name came from. Since yours is the first time I've read about that detail, I doubt many do today. And I also knew about RDG buying the remnants and Myford name, but again there's no mention of what I think is an important detail in those videos about even that. So the involvement of RDG in the current Myford Lathes location seems to be a bit murky. Partial, majority or only business owner at that location? Since Myford started in 1934, then almost for sure they ended up with a massive boost in sales at the start and continuation of WW II a few years later. Everything I've read indicates the post war 1945-1960's were pretty lean years in the UK, so probably that's true for Myford as a business as well. Interesting how Ralph Neville with the same hobby as ours may well have had at least some influence in the early years of Myford. Highly doubtful anyone with our interests wouldn't be paying close attention to what was going on in the same building. That would be for most of us almost irresistible.  ;D

Offline Chipswitheverything

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Re: 4 Part Video Series About The Current Myford Lathes
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2022, 09:38:31 AM »
Interested in Jo's information from those early days, and OAO's comments.  I remember that long bed Myford lathe that GHT had. It was given to him as far as I know, by Myford, partly as a thank you for all the extra interest in the company's lathes that George's many articles and projects had helped to spawn, and also so that he had an up to date example of a Myford to help with designing or taking pictures.
 The short bed lathe that he always used and had extensively modded with his designed improvements, was rather older, late fifties perhaps.  GHT had had his workshop extended ,quite late in life, and the long bed was under the window in the new portion, but in fact he just about never used it at all, the "old faithfull" being so familiar and very equal to the jobs.  That fact might make OAO feel a bit happier about not having made the purchase!   I have an idea that the Super 7 lathe that had all the modifications went with other workshop gear to Neil Hemingway, with whom GHT was in close collaboration over the castings and availability of the Pillar tool and other project designs.  Dave

Offline GWRdriver

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Re: 4 Part Video Series About The Current Myford Lathes
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2022, 03:29:43 PM »
Yes, I find the price of the recent high spec "Myfords" a bit extraordinary.

Hello Dave,
Well that's a new one on me . . . I wasn't aware "Myfords" were once again being produced, but the extraordinary price wouldn't surprise me. 

Quote
. . . and gear-box examples tending to be sold more cheaply than used to be the case, particularly the "grey" era ones rather than the "green" ones..... Dave

This comment prompts a question . . . I've read comments which allude to a difference in desirability between the colors but I never saw an explanation.  I have a grey ("grey era"?) Super-7 and have wondered what the difference is.  I knew the original owner and origins of my machine, how it go over here, etc, but I've not been able to find a serial number.  It's supposed to be stamped in the bed, but it's not there.  I suspect it was made in the late 1970s.

Harry
Cheers,
Harry

Offline Overbuilt and Overkill

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Re: 4 Part Video Series About The Current Myford Lathes
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2022, 07:16:11 PM »
Well this has evolved and returned much more information than I thought I might be providing others with those rather poor informative video links.  :cheers: But I hadn't known most of George's re-design efforts and then modifications were done to his older standard length Myford, or where most of his shop equipment and tooling ended up. And nice to hear Neil was the recipient, if anyone would respect and look after it properly he would. I had run across a mention somewhere in the past about George being given at least one new lathe by Myford and for the reasons you mentioned Dave. Interesting after all this time to find out that same long bed was one of them.

To me and as long as any new information is being added, I've never cared about a thread I've ever started going off topic by anyone. But it sounds like your someone who had actually been in Georges shop Dave? If so I wonder if you or anyone else can answer a question I've had for a long time. In my opinion George had a very rare combination of gifted skills. Almost an artists eye for proportion, a high appreciation for tool maker quality machining & design, the ability and skills to do the same himself, and was imo a true craftsman. Yet I can't recall ever seeing any details about what his working career really was. He did mention a few times in his books about the "works" he was apparently employed at, but never what they were or what he did there. And since he mentioned those Herbert indexing tool posts at those same works and a "star turner" there who taught him a few things, then it was obviously a machine shop of some type.

As far as I know Harry I've seen no detail yet that there's any difference between how the lathes are set up or with what options for the colors those Super 7's are painted. As they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and not that it makes any difference at all, but to me that turquoise color is a bit garish for what should be on a machine tool. I'd take that proper grey you have instead. Or in a pinch the RAL green Deckel and others in Europe painted there machines.  ;D Very odd you can't find your Myford serial number though. A shot in the dark guess, maybe the lathes destined for export were stamped elsewhere. But serial numbers are just that, easier if they wanted to differentiate a lathe being exported by adding a letter or number prefix to the usual serial number and in the normal location would make more sense. Mistakes happen, so maybe it somehow got through QC without one? Inbound customs in the U.S. would absolutely require that serial number because it's always part of the country of origin paper work, so the original export papers would have it which I highly doubt you'd have. Rarely are machine tool shipping crates opened by customs and inspected in detail, so not having one still doesn't mean much from that perspective.

Offline Charles Lamont

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Re: 4 Part Video Series About The Current Myford Lathes
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2022, 09:14:15 PM »
For a very brief period somewhere around 1978 I worked with George Thomas' brother Bill, he was recovering from a heart attack, and was assigned light duties, one of which was to assist me with getting a (190kW) pump test facility built. I was under strict instruction to avoid raising the blood pressure of a notoriously irascible bloke. I don't know the exact history of who owned what and when, but between them the brothers owned a number of engineering businesses based in Totton, just West of Southampton. One of these was coachbuilder Hampshire Car Bodies, a firm that found itself, more or less by accident, building fire engines.

By the time I got there on my second assignment as a graduate trainee, the company had been sold to George Angus, and Angus to Dunlop, then a large conglomerate.* I am hazy about it but I think HCB had been, at least mostly, Bill's baby, and he still had some sort of presence. Still running when I was there, and possibly still under George's ownership was Southern Automatics Co Ltd or SACOL. This had a well equipped machine shop which I never saw. I can't remember, if I ever really knew, what it produced, though hydraulics came into it. I do remember that an HCB engineer was assigned for a while to work in their drawing office to produce a power take-off so that we could put an Angus 250 gallon/min pump on the new V8 Landrover. The ratio of the silent chain PTO was based on performance matching curves I had drawn. The chief engineer at HCB was a direct descendant of Brunel.   


*(I was one of a graduate intake of about 120, including about a dozen mech eng. Some may remember the TV ad which showed people before and after the removal from the scene of everything made by Dunlop. In a tennis match there was left some grass, an umpire and two players in their underwear. A completely kitted out fire engine crew with their HCB-Angus engine, portable pump, hoses, nozzles, helmets, jackets, foam concentrate, extinguishers, etc. were left with little more.)     
« Last Edit: August 02, 2022, 09:30:52 PM by Charles Lamont »

Offline GWRdriver

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Re: 4 Part Video Series About The Current Myford Lathes
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2022, 12:17:26 AM »
[snip] As far as I know Harry I've seen no detail yet that there's any difference between how the lathes are set up or with what options for the colors those Super 7's are painted.

I wouldn't have imagined so either, but because over the years changes have occurred so often (ie, "value engineering") in products I've been familiar with and use, it wouldn't be a stretch to suspect the change in color might indicate a shift in some way that affected quality, even if only in small details.

I found my serial number . . . SK125598, right where the manual said it was.  The problem is I misinterpreted the tiny ser# location schematic in the manual and looked everywhere but THERE!  According to the serial number listings on Lathes.co.uk it was made in 1975 or 76 and made it over to this side in 1977.  I have all the previous owners paperwork EXCEPT the original bill of sale.

I prefer the grey also (although if it hadn't been grey I'd have still been happy to have it), probably because when I entered the hobby machine tools anywhere within the reach of the amateur were painted some shade of grey, IMHO a fitting color for machine tools.

I'll get my coat and show myself out.
Harry   ;)
Cheers,
Harry

Offline Charles Lamont

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Re: 4 Part Video Series About The Current Myford Lathes
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2022, 08:56:18 AM »
Harry, your machine would have power cross-feed? Changes were made quite often. My machine, SK113448D, bought 1973, had gone away from guiding the saddle on the front shear to spanning the whole bed, and power cross-feed was introduced soon after mine. I don't think there were any significant changes with the change of colour. Though I think putting the tailstock barrel lock on top instead of behind was somewhere around that time, as well as changing to a fully machined top-slide.

Offline Chipswitheverything

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Re: 4 Part Video Series About The Current Myford Lathes
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2022, 09:45:46 AM »
Interested in the information that is being brought together by this discussion.  Incidentally, I wonder if our original poster OAO, could give us a name?, actual or assumed!, to be able to seem a bit more friendly in addressing him ( or her..) ?!
 I'll add a few other comments later, but just to mention now that a local friend of mine has a brand new and never used whatsoever, green Myford Super 7 B, which had been bought new, with accessories, somewhen in the early era of the change to green. It seemed to spend quite a few years sat in the then buyers living room, and then my friend bought the whole ensemble, and has had it for 20 odd years still  ( until very recently ) covered with the original grease! It has still never been plugged in..   When I have looked at it, I can't say that I have noticed any difference other than colour from my grey, 1976 power c/feed Super 7 B. ( Indeed, my friend, when he sees my Myford which has seen battle for all these years, always says that he thinks the grey , with a trace of oily weathering, looks so much more machine like than the pristine green of his.  I do offer him some swarf to distribute around his lathe...!  So far declined...  Dave


Offline Chipswitheverything

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Re: 4 Part Video Series About The Current Myford Lathes
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2022, 06:35:09 PM »
To add a little to this thread, for interested parties...     OAO, yes, I visited GHT's workshop and large, grange style house, in it's own grounds,  a few times most years between about 1966 and on up to the 'eighties.  My father knew GHT though a connection with a local camera club in the '60's, my father being the secretary and GHT the President.  George had a dedicated darkroom and photographic facility in the top area of the house, and of course used his skill and interest in this to personally process the high quality photos that were shown in his ME articles and books.

 I was just a young teenager when I first saw the workshop, and I remember my father coming home in the first instance, before I went with him, and telling of the wonders that he had been shown, having originally gone to Milton Grange on photographic business.  ( Incidentally, in a seperate workshop across the garden, not linked to the house as the m/eng. shop was, GHT had a full woodworking workshop, large in size, with Myford woodworking equipment included in it...)

  I was interested in model making in the usual way that youngsters were ( back then! ) and so I was introduced to the workshop, fascinating, albeit a bit out of my experience! Not long after this, an ML7 lathe that had been used for training at HCB/Angus in Totton, as Charles has explained, was surplus to the works, and sold to me , or rather to my father, for £20.  It had some chucks and a few basic things, and was on a well built cabinet , not Myford, which I still use for my present Super 7.   So, I had a lathe at about 14 !, but not much workshop backup, nor skill of course.
I had that lathe until 1976, sold it on to a violin maker...   As I got to my later teens, I was able to absorb more information imparted on the visits to Milton Grange, and by then GHT was fairly active in beginning the series of workshop equipment articles, and I was able to see the tools themselves, inspiring!, and have the written information to peruse. Subsequently, like so many other enthusiasts,  I made many of his tool designs, as I have mentioned in other postings.

  I can't add much to what Charles has said about GHT's professional life, he was retired when I used to visit in the later period, and his interest lay with the model engineering. I did have a tour of the Totton HCB Angus works, not with George, in c. 1977, a large busy premises machining pumps for fire engines.
 Certainly, as a graduate engineer, and an ambitious and very hard working one, GHT's concerns were for most of his life at a senior management level and not at shop floor level, though he was perhaps unusual to have nurtured such an intense interest in the practicalities of machining.  Rather than the Golf Club or what have you! He hated small talk and party-going, loved to discuss the model engineering and the articles being written. The Model Engineer magazine was then the focus of most of the information circulating.  He was, in circumstances when I knew him, a wealthy man living, with his wife, in a very fine house. 

Another long standing earlier interest of GHT was antiquarian horology.  He was able, as a young man around Clerkenwell in London, during the depression years, to buy very interesting watch movements , many early or mid eighteenth century, and later complex movements, that were, preposterously, discarded from watches, gold ones especially, when the watch cases were smashed up for gold scrap. Sacriledge, and would never happen now.  The movements were tossed in a bucket and sold for two shillings and sixpence each  ( 12 1/2 pence..) GHT bought such as he could, and examined and sometimes repaired them, fascinated by their technical features.
  To this end, somewhat later on, George designed, and had made ( probably at HCB ) a rather special watch making workshop which could be shut away from dust and tampering behind oak cupboard doors.
 In the 1970's my father, who had various technical interests, became interested and involved with horology.  GHT had by then moved on to absorbtion in the model engineering, and my father bought the watchmaking workshop and its complete Lorch lathe outfit and much other tooling related to the craft. Also some older watch movements. This is the cabinet in the photos ( not very good, I had to just copy some old prints.)  My father used this for 20 years or so : it was eventually sold on to an antiquarian horologist in the west country.

I have the Lorch lathe in its box. This lathe was ordered from Germany by GHT in the summer of 1939!!  He never expected to see it, not sure whether it had been paid for, but just about when the war broke out, the lathe was delivered to him!

I'll leave it there!   Dave


Offline Roger B

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Re: 4 Part Video Series About The Current Myford Lathes
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2022, 07:23:01 PM »
Fascinating history  :ThumbsUp: and having been born and bought up in Southampton some familiar names  :)
Best regards

Roger

Offline Kim

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Re: 4 Part Video Series About The Current Myford Lathes
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2022, 09:23:57 PM »
Wow! Very interesting story, Dave!  Thanks for sharing it with us.  Great to see the pictures of the tool cabinet too!

Kim

Offline Overbuilt and Overkill

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Re: 4 Part Video Series About The Current Myford Lathes
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2022, 11:53:58 PM »
Your correct Dave, I should have mentioned it, but for a name and less key strokes that would be Greg.  :)

And I hadn't considered GHT might have been the owner or co owner of that "works" he mentioned, or that he might have been involved with more than one business. I'd just assumed because of his skills and knowledge he might have been employed as probably a machinist / fitter of some type. Your mention of George being a hard working graduate engineer explains I think a lot of his very well thought out designs and the analysis he used to get to that point. I've got enough of a collection of older pre war M.E. magazines and up into the 1960's & some into the 70's to have a rough idea of both the rarity of anyone with a home shop in the UK having any mill at all, and the costs for the tooling around that time period. So the few pictures of George's Tom Senior mill in his shop and the amount of equipment & accessories he had for it, as well as for his Myford that seemed to be absolutely stuffed into that very well equipped shop never did quite add up for someone who might have been at the tradesman level. But now with Charles & Dave's confirmation (thank you both very much) he was instead a fairly wealthy business owner. That certainly would have made things a whole lot easier to do the same.

The original and then second owner of that brand new Myford are better men than myself Dave. It would be irresistible to not use it. I did spend a fair amount of time over a number of years seriously thinking about buying one of the Super 7'S, but never quite to the point of doing so. But even more thoughts when they introduced the large bore Connoisseur, but as I've already mentioned I kept hoping they would add a non threaded spindle version. I learned the hard way to research my machine tool choices before committing to anything and have some biased opinions about what I want. So in the latter years of the original Myford lathes, I checked their web site a fair bit before they closed for good. My memory might be a bit hazy and there listing of color choice wasn't any detail I bothered to focus on since that imo proper grey was my only decision anyway. But I just don't recall any variations where that paint color meant changes for how the lathes were built or the options they had. So that agrees with Charles and Your point as well. I do seem to recall Myford would also paint a lathe in any custom color you wanted for a very serious up charge in excess of 1,000  pounds. Because of the costs, I'd doubt few would have done so. But Harry's "value engineering" is certainly pertinent to a lot of items today and worth remembering. I even tried the internet Wayback Machine to try and access the old Myford web site to be 100% positive of my information, but there seems to be a delay or interruption getting to it.

And that's got to be the most comprehensive set of watch making equipment I've seen in one place Dave. As impressive as it is, the skills & knowledge to even use it all properly are imo even more impressive and well beyond my own. Again my sincere thanks Charles & Dave for answering some questions about GHT I've had for a number of years and those pictures. Yes George did mention his dark room & photography interest, his woodworking shop that I didn't know was in it's own separate building. But no real details or pictures of any of it that I've seen in print so far. And a few mentions about Ornamental Turning as well. Again no real details, so I'm unsure if it went as far as having the proper Ornamental or Rose Engine lathes.

There's one book I have titled Myford Super 7 Manual written by Ian Bradley. https://www.specialinterestmodelbooks.co.uk/product/myford-series-7-manual/ It lists a bit about when significant changes were made to the ML 7's and Super 7's up to it's date of publication. Most here wouldn't need a lot of the more basic lathe operation information it contains. I think because of it's relatively low cost and the Myford accessory information is has, it's still worth it for anyone with a Myford ML or Super 7. I think of it as a companion book to the better J.A. Radford's Improvements and Accessories for your Lathe, and GHT's Model Engineer's Workshop Manual.

Afaik and with the limited information I've managed to pick up, Charles is 100% correct about the change Myford made between what is generally known as the narrow and wide guide set up for the Myford carriage. In case there's any here who haven't yet run across the YouTube channel before? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD1jVjhwma9Ehj8BQqDMPHw/videos For anyone with a Myford, his details about properly rebuilding them to factory new or better condition would be priceless even if you were paying to have it done. There's at least one of his older videos that does detail how he converted those narrow guide Myford's to the wide guide as well. It seems to be a fairly simple process and might help with any older and worn narrow guide lathes.

Greg.

Offline Chipswitheverything

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Re: 4 Part Video Series About The Current Myford Lathes
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2022, 10:21:06 AM »
Many thanks, Greg, for your long and interesting reply.  I'll have another look a bit later also.   I am sure that it will be familiar to you from your web searching, Greg, but for any who haven't come across it, the information resource about very many machine tools and their history   http://www.lathes.co.uk/   throws up a mass of detailed information about all the variety of Myford products and changes to them.  I have a few older catalogues but I think that that site just about reproduces the information in the brochures as well as much else.

 Another book that is still worth a look through, and again linked in with the rise of the Myford brand as playing a core role in UK model engineering, is "The Amateur's Lathe" by L H Sparey.  I have a 1948 1st edition, and the frontispiece shows Mr Sparey in his somewhat austerity workshop using an early ML 7 lathe with the familiar vertical slide in action. Many of the good photographs show the Myford in use on a wide range of basic and not so basic machining procedures. 
   I have got GHT's own copy of "The "M.E. Lathe Manual" by Edgar Westbury, given to him by a friend in 1959, another publication that was heavily Myford based in its pictures. By the time GHT passed it to me, he would himself have rather outgrown the need to consult its basic information!   Also I have a 1952 1st edition of Donald de Carle's "The Watchmaker's Lathe and how to use it" that was George's copy.  In it is a later letter to me from GHT saying how much he was looking forward to the publication , in 1981, of the seminal ( superb ) book "Watchmaking" by George Daniels, which I had sent GHT a blurb about when I ordered my own copy. So he was still keeping an interest in horology at that later time in life.   Dave

Offline Del_61

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Re: 4 Part Video Series About The Current Myford Lathes
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2022, 10:47:33 AM »
So interesting to hear about GHT, I never had the honor of meeting him in person, I think the closest I have got was seeing him surrounded by others watching him at work on a Myford at a ME exhibition long ago.

His workshop equipment tools that he designed and his descriptions of how to machine /make them is second to none and can form the basics of an apprenticeship for those new to our "hobby" in my opinion.

I did my apprenticeship in the mid to late 1970's and his articles were essential reading (and I still refer to them to this day!) to enforce my understanding - almost a virtual tutor.

Another giant was T D Walshaw (Tubal Cain), I passed him in a corridor at a ME exhibition once, ...I wish I was able to say thank you, his articles in the ME were also essential reading. Sounds morbid but I did have a holiday once in the tiny halmet of Sadgill, Longsleddale (Cumbria in the Lake district), and laid some flowers on his grave in the little church there......the description on his headstone reads "Engineer of Sadgill"

Sorry to stray off the thread topic.....

Regards to all

Derek

Offline Grateful Ted

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Re: 4 Part Video Series About The Current Myford Lathes
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2022, 04:58:39 PM »
Thanks for the history & information on Myford lathes.
I’ve been interested in them for about 50 odd years.
I could never afford one back then, settled for a SB9 which I still use.
Burt Munro used a Myford when working on his Indian.

Offline Overbuilt and Overkill

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Re: 4 Part Video Series About The Current Myford Lathes
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2022, 09:38:33 AM »
I think the popularity of the Myford ML and then Super 7 may have had a lot to do with luck for both the company and customers. Myford without doubt got that boost due to the war as I've said. My collection of pre war M.E. magazines shows there really wasn't much around in the UK prior to Myford opening it's doors that was at least semi reasonably priced, made well enough, or all that adaptable to other tasks M.E.'s were looking for at the time. Most of what was available seemed to be based on late 1800's - very early 1900's technology and features or definite lack of. So I think Myford managed to design a product with there first ML 7 that found and even helped build a niche market other machine tool manufacturers with smaller and lower priced lathes didn't realize was there or had been ignoring with a take it or leave it attitude and what  they were willing to provide. It's still pretty amazing how the Myford lathes were just about the bench mark in the average M.E.'s shops and did exactly that for so long. A huge number of model casting kits were literally designed around there capability's they had that much effect. I'd even forgotten about Bert Munro using one until Ted jogged my memory. :cheers: and thank you.

Yes I've spent many enjoyable hrs on that Lathes UK site Dave. A fantastic resource with a great deal of information to be picked up for sure.  :) I've got a copies of Sparey's Amateurs Lathe book, and as you've said some not so basic or slightly unusual set ups in it, and Westbury's M.E. Lathe Manual as well. Other than maybe a few of the less published or out of print such as GHT's Dividing & Graduating that I think was mostly re-covered in his Workshop Techniques, I probably have about all the lathe/machining books published in the UK by the most well known M.E. authors during the late 1940's-1980's. Plus almost all of the Workshop Practice Series. But so far none of the watch/clock making publications. That still interests me, but more for the tooling and different techniques used than any completed watch or clock might. And I very much agree with Derek who wasn't OT at all with his mention of Walshaw's grave site. That to me shows a proper level of respect for someone who had earned it.

Out of all the hard copy information I have both British and American, none has taught me as much as GHT's The Model Engineer's Workshop Manual and his WT book has. I'd suggest Graham Meek might be Georges equal for picture clarity, drawing quality, highly informative writing style, and clever functional design. But TD Walshaw / Tubal Cain was imo a close second and I think exceeded GHT's efforts for a few subjects George couldn't cover because of space limitations in that amount of detail. Georges TMEWM was apparently compiled by a close friend (William Bennett) and then published after Georges death. I'd like to think he would be pleased with how well it was done.

Fwiw this book isn't really Myford specific and is a bit dated since it was first published in 1947. https://www.ajreeves.com/436.html Ian Bradley was another fairly good author. But there's quite a few lathe accessory's and modifications that could be adopted and used with almost any lathe. Some of it such as the over head driven small shop assembled / built mill and using the lathes carriage and cross slides as the X,Y would be of much less interest with the many ok ish off shore mills we now have. It's still interesting to see how much tougher most M.E.'s had it back then compared to today. And some of their work still very much impresses me even now. And for any here at the more entry level of learning? http://www.opensourcemachinetools.org/archive-manuals/Hercus_TextBook_of_Turning.pdf Highly useful no matter what lathe type, brand or size you might own.

There's a few today who are I think the video equivalent to some of those now long gone and excellent British authors. Jan's channel about rebuilding machine tools I've already linked to. This one has quite a bit well outside the accuracy requirements of most home shops, https://www.youtube.com/c/ROBRENZ There's not a video of his where I haven't picked up multiple bits of information, and most I'd never even thought about before. I think he fit's the definition of what a true master craftsman might be quite well.

Greg.


Offline Chipswitheverything

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Re: 4 Part Video Series About The Current Myford Lathes
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2022, 02:11:28 PM »
Thanks for the further comments Greg.  What you have said about the timing and influence of Myford lathes, when they appeared , and about the publications that you have been able to make a collection of I would agree with. To have found some of these books and booklets in the USA I imagine might have been more difficult than here in the UK.  I have found quite a lot of them very cheaply here in past years.
 Here are a few that go back a bit earlier : the Paul Hasluck books are 1893, he did a whole series on various practical pursuits.  The Geo. Adams Closing Sale catalogue is about 1936, a page on the GA lathes shown.  The whole catalogue is a good resume of what was around at that time. The poor chap with his breast drill and blacksmith's leg vice is about 1925.  That gives an idea of what one might have been up against...!
    If you should ever fancy getting into the history of horological tools, then a magnificent ( expensive !) book was published privately by the American collector and researcher  Ted Crom, Florida, in 1980  "Horological Shop Tools 1700 to 1900"  I got a copy at that time, it is an extraordinary resource.
  Going back to the GHT chat, the Tom Senior milling machine arrived quite late on in the workshop fit, I'm pretty sure that it coincided with the extention to the shop towards the 'eighties.  Before that, the room was not really available.  Also a new Clarkson T&C grinder went in the new portion, and the long bed Myford as mentioned.  Because GHT had adopted the policy of designing his Myford accessories so that they could be actually made on the lathe itself, and the lathe user could gradually increase his or her scope of the lathe as the equipment was made, he wasn't all that fixed on the need for a milling machine in the 'shop.  Perhaps seems surprising now.
 But as time went on, and it was evident that more model engineers were obtaining mills, like the Westbury ( which I have )  and Dore-Westbury ( but not so much any far-eastern machines then ) GHT took advantage of the scope that they undoubtedly gave.  Also, it enabled him to work a bit more easily and quickly as he became elderly!  For the amateur, DRO 's were just about unknown then, with his favouring of methods of using the machine as a co-ordinate plotter, George would have been enthusiastic about their availability.   GHT had the castings for the Quorn, of which he held a high opinion:  and he knew Prof. Chaddock well, and was planning a build of the Quorn, but it didn't come to pass.
 

Offline GWRdriver

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Re: 4 Part Video Series About The Current Myford Lathes
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2022, 09:49:31 PM »
I recall the Drummond Round-bed being mentioned as frequently as any other during that period.

Some years ago I'd heard a rumor there was a small shop nestled away in the backwoods beyond a small town some 60 miles from me which dealt in used tools and occasionally machinery.  When my business took me in that direction I made a point to visit and I found what was essentially a tenant shack and what greeted me on the front porch was a surprisingly clean Drummond Round-bed, used as a screen door stop!  That was the first and only Round-bed I'd ever seen in person and I was surprised at its size and relative mass.

I asked the proprietor what he'd like to have for it and the price was $25 1989 USD.  I admitted I really couldn't use it (I had no screen doors) but decided to tell him what I knew of its history. origins, etc, and went on my way.  On my return trip I went by the shop again, to look at another item, and noticed the Round-bed had been moved inside, well-oiled, and the price tag now read $625 1989 USD!   I would love to have known the story of how a Drummond Round-bed survived and ended up in the backwoods of Tennessee!

Harry

[big snip]My collection of pre war M.E. magazines shows there really wasn't much around in the UK prior to Myford opening it's doors that was at least semi reasonably priced, made well enough, or all that adaptable to other tasks M.E.'s were looking for at the time.
Greg.
Cheers,
Harry

Offline Overbuilt and Overkill

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Re: 4 Part Video Series About The Current Myford Lathes
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2022, 05:54:21 AM »
This started out about Myford lathes, but I have zero issues about it bouncing around to any topic at all and maybe into something that just might help those at the more entry level. Plus I'm learning a lot of details I hadn't known before. So again my sincere thanks to everyone who has added further information or personal recollections and experiences.

I'm in Canada and not the U.S. so getting anything shop related is pretty much guaranteed to involve extra shipping charges Dave. And much more so from the UK that might not be even available here. Or in the case of Ebay re-sellers of a lot of the same books I have at multiple times there cost from the UK. While I'd never compare the minor amount of difficulty I've ever faced to those M.E.'s in the past, when I started trying to learn as much as possible about machining and Model Engineering it was before the internet was in place. More by pure luck than anything else I happened to run across an at the time unknown Model Engineer magazine in an city I rarely visited and never to that magazine shop. The Model Engineer magazine isn't common in very many book or magazine locations over here. But with that first magazine I found out about Tee Publishing, Revees, Myford etc. So I subscribed to it, ordered Tee's catalog and got busy ordering and sometimes in bulk new books every year or so. I recall one of my Tee Publications orders that weighed almost 50 lbs and it came in a large heavy fiber sack. :happyreader: 

That ultimately was a bit costly, but a massive help to shorten the learning curve a bit and I've had no regrets. Few bits of information were around about what was good and informative and others less so. So every choice was a bit of a gamble and there were some I bought that were much less than I'd expected. But over all not many that didn't have at least something of interest. And the more your learning, the more your personal opinions change about what you already understand and where further information is needed. I think you also become much more critical about just how well the information is being presented. Once the internet came along and later I got a computer and barely ever learned to use it, all this became much much easier. With it and you learn how to search for information, the rest is just time to absorb and hopefully retain most of it for later. But it will never be a substitute for that hard copy information I have and still add to from time to time. I even wore out my first copy of GHT's TMEWSM and had to replace it with one that's again getting a bit rough.  :)
 

Yes I noticed and came to the same conclusion about how GHT presented his designs and methods so they could be built with the same Myford a lot of it might be used on or was being built for. Very considerate of him to do so in that way. I'd estimate that alone added many hours of design and thought when much of it could be easily done with his mill. Although I hadn't known his mill was only added in the 1980's. And yes he did mention a few times about that Clarkson T&C, but I hadn't known it was obtained new. And those Quorn castings which is a bit surprising he never got the chance to start on. :( With that Clarkson T&C I guess there was less pressure to get it completed as quickly as possible. I have the Quorn book, but am unsure if one will ever be built by myself. There's still a lot of techniques and unusual set ups to learn from though. Given the extra in this thread I've now learned about GHT, he seems to have been what's almost universal with people who are the most talented and knowledgeable. Confident in their ability's, but still humble instead of conceited.

Harry is I think quite correct about those round bed Drummond's, before Myford they were probably the most well known brand at the time. Or at least the most advertised in those old magazines. I seem to recall Myford bought either the Drummond or maybe it was the Zyto lathes business? Lol, subtle and clever humor Harry.   

Thank you for the mention about Ted Croms book. Yes it appears to be on the expensive side even for used copy's, but I'll now keep it in mind during my visits to used book stores. And as you've mentioned, those old books and even machine tool supply company catalogs are a great resource of information even today. Obviously everyone has varied interests, but from my own collection and possibly difficult to find in the UK. I still highly recommend this one even if it had to be shipped from the U.S. 

Tool and Gauge Work first written by Goodrich and Stanley in 1907 but later editions as well. It has a fairly extensive and very interesting chapter about the first set of Johansson Gauge Blocks in North America. Usually cheap enough to find a used copy today and well worth the extra shipping for any not in North America. Also very impressive for the accuracy they considered a good sleeve bearing lathe to be capable of while locating parts onto the lathes face plate using shop made hardened and ground tool maker buttons, a shop made dti (drawings for the same within the book) and a very good micrometer to bore & grind gauges to tolerances only jig borers and grinders were capable of later on once they were invented. Over 100 years later I can just barely measure what they were efficiently doing day-day with much better metrology equipment than they had. But neither myself of any of my lathes could duplicate there results. Before reading that I'd always thought Myfords decision of a rear roller & thrust bearing and it's front sleeve bearing was a backwards step. In fact there's logical and sound desirable reasons for doing so.

Greg. 


 

Offline Chipswitheverything

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Re: 4 Part Video Series About The Current Myford Lathes
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2022, 10:50:42 AM »
Thanks a lot for the further comments, Greg, and the take on things from your part of the world.
Thanks to Harry, also, for his amusing Drummond lathe reminiscence : sometimes one wishes that one had just shut up!  But unless there is the room for the purchase, and a way of using it, it is sort of lumber.

 Probably we are lucky in the UK to have quite a lot of the historical material relating to the hobby fairly easily available, often at pre-Covid shows and rallies:
 charity shops and house clearance dealers have been sources for me also. It's fairly easy for most who want to build up a good back collection of the Model Engineer magazine to do so without a lot of cost.
 I have a more or less complete run from the late 40's through to 2015, found some as bound volumes here and there; and had substantial additions from older friends downsizing their holdings , or sadly after bereavement of same.  Ditto a big run of Engineering in Miniature. The problem is finding the room for them, but they have consistently repaid their house -room.   When the 50 lbs sack of goodies turned up, you must have settled to some "heavy" reading, Greg!
  Prof Chaddock's book on making and using the Quorn, and associated articles  - the book was originally a long series of Model Engineer articles -  ( and there is a useful website and forum, now ) is very much along the same lines of thinking as GHT's approach to helping the averagely equipped model engineer, of a few decades ago, to enhance their tooling and skills.
  I have been chipping away at my own build of a Quorn for longer than I care to mention!  In the last few weeks I have been in the 'shop making the many, (15, though might want a few more one day...),  ball ended levers that are a feature of the Quorn. Nearly completed them, and that has been using a J. A. Radcliffe type of spherical turning tool and the scheme of holding collets and procedure that GHT gave details of.  I have made some of these ball levers before ( GHT dividing head, and the Pillar Tool...) but it was nice to be reminded of how well the tools and the method work.
 
 Re; the gradual increase in the scope of the tools and gear in model engineer's workshops from the sixties period and on into the era when GHT was writing his articles:  it has amused me a little that the estimable locomotive designer Don Young, who must have seen the workshops of very many fellow model engineers on into the 1980's and beyond, was still, very late on in his LLAS articles, not at all confident that a model engineer who had a micrometer would also be in possession of a vernier calliper! It was the world that he had grown up in.
 It was pretty inconceivable, really,  that anyone building the magnificent , complex 5" gauge "Doncaster" A3 Pacific would not have a pretty full cohort of machining and measuring equipment.  His worry about this extended to getting my friend and colleague Merlin Biddlecombe ( very sadly, departed last year, aged 90 ), to scheme out , actually machine and write up, in LLAS, a method of machining the formidable inside cylinder of "Doncaster" using only the Myford lathe.  Merlin's solution was a masterpiece of ingenuity, well worth reading!, but I know that Merlin doubted that anyone else would ever actually do the job that way!   Bung it all on the vertical milling machine...!   Dave

Offline GWRdriver

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Re: 4 Part Video Series About The Current Myford Lathes
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2022, 06:29:27 PM »
I want to apologize to Greg for contaminating this thread with almost unrelated anecdotal posts, however for my sins I'll offer my GHT experiences.
As I did with all the well-known mentors in ME over the years, I looked forward to any GHT articles and eventually built two GHT-inspired tools.

The second (I'll get to the first in a moment) was a set of the GHT Bending rolls.  Due to the size of my anticipated work, and metal in my scrap bin, I found I could double GHT's design.  I first laid the thing out in CAD and enlarged it to fit within the envelope allowed by my material, which was scrap but also of known composition.  The result came out in most dimensions to be 2X, 200%, which I built.  In work done since, I was surprised to discover that although the main rolls were essentially twice the diameter of GHT's original design, and all other components in proportion, the gauge rolling capacity was not doubled.  In rolling a boiler barrel it struggled to roll frequently-annealed US/16ga copper.  After many passes it did indeed roll the tube, but there was evidence of roll deflection resulting thinning at the tube ends.  I now know its limits.

The first of the two projects was inspired by the GHT Staking & Tapping stand.  Once again I consulted the scrap bin, and other resources, to see what I could build.  Again based upon anticipated need and materials available, I designed a tapping stand which wasn't a copy, but nevertheless inspired by GHT.  The inspiration informed both the physical design and function, and also my understanding of the reasons for having such a tool.  I'll have to say that my tapping stand has been perhaps the single most useful tool I've ever made, primarily because over the years it's saved me a small fortune in broken taps, having Workshop Esperanto become a first language, and hours of often fruitless rescue labor.  I can't now remember the last time I broke a tap of even the smallest size.

IMHO, everyone needs one, and any Tyro (remember that term?) can make one.  It needn't be thought of as "precision" necessarily, although any precision that can be introduced into it will be a benefit.  Had I realized how helpful a tapping stand would be I'd have made one decades before I did, but one lives and learns.  This particular lesson was taught me by GHT.

Harry
« Last Edit: August 06, 2022, 06:53:26 PM by GWRdriver »
Cheers,
Harry

Offline Overbuilt and Overkill

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Re: 4 Part Video Series About The Current Myford Lathes
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2022, 02:42:06 AM »
I've always been a bit envious of M.E.'s in the U.K. Dave. For the southern part of England and the highest population & most likely area of any used machines and tooling. Anyone there would be a few hrs drive away. Plus there's a multitude of those machines and that tooling from other parts of Europe that would be quite rare over here. And almost always much higher priced if you can even find it. Even a few and to get this partially back OT, less produced accessory's Myford had available. I've yet to see even one of for sale over here. There capstan / turret accessory as one example. So all that availability you have would in general help keep the prices lower. You also have that high number of preserved locomotives and steam museums for researching a lot of full sized items, all those pre Covid M.E. shows & rallies you mentioned for inspiration, as well as multiple M.E. suppliers. In general, it's probably a wee bit tougher for those of us across the pond. However I'm not all that envious of your 20% VAT. Our extra freight costs more than make up for that though.

As I've said, I also have a lot of the pre war M.E. magazines. Going by the in general fairly poor B&W photos, but most times well detailed articles. Early 1900's-maybe 1960's workshops compared to today were pretty austere. A lathe of some type, and lot's of those appeared to be in fairly worn or poor condition, treadle driven for some, maybe a drill press or old hand cranked post drill, egg beater type drills for portability, a shaper, small planner or even more rare a horizontal mill for the really lucky or well off owners. Some even had to resort to either a small steam engine or lower HP gas engine and line shafts just to get power to whatever machine tools they were lucky enough to have. If you go back far enough like those old magazines do, electrical motors weren't the universally available and expected as standard equipment item they are now. And then some type of shop made or commercial vertical slide for the lathe if you'd been at it for awhile I'd guess. Today it seems the general perception by many is those lathe milling attachments are just about worthless. Ok even against a 300 lb or larger round column and off shore mill, then yes there's definite size and vastly reduced rigidity limitations. There's still a large amount of models within those old magazines that are just as impressive today. I'd love to know when the likes of M.E.'s  such as Mrs. Cherry Hill/Hinds first had access to a mill. Many of the better recognized M.E. authors prior to maybe the 1970's sure didn't seem to have one. Anyone trying to learn certainly didn't have the easy access to information and learning capability we now have, and that's true for just this forum alone. Overall I think it took a great deal more dedication and effort. Which makes what they did accomplish even more impressive. Your Westbury and then the later Dore-Westbury you had to build and machine the smaller components for is another example of the effort it took. I seem to recall that Dore-Westbuy still being advertised into the early 80's? How many today chain drill and then spend days filing out locomotive frame openings to finished size, then hand layout, center punch and drill all the holes for every bolt or rivet when many of them can be ordered as almost finished laser cut items. Even a now lowly digital calculator would have been an unbelievable luxury. Back then they did have a few things in there favor though, more had full size machining and steam experience or at least it would be more common to know others who did. And even most city's, towns or villages had at least one foundry within it or close by. Those old M.E. magazines seem to show more home produced patterns and using those foundry's for tooling and model castings than what's usual or even available to most today. So more one off and original scale copies of at least full sized locos, stationary or even marine engines seemed to be getting designed and built by quite a few than now. Very few today would even attempt or have the full scale knowledge to do what Commander WT. Barker did with his amazing and extremely complex scale multi cylinder marine engine models in the early half of the 1900's.

Harry you certainly weren't nor has anyone else imo been off topic since as I said I don't care wherever this thread happens to go. I've taken it OT and still am multiple times myself. :) In theory and if I understand the math correctly, that twice size set of rolls should be 8X as rigid and (I think) would have 4x times the deflection with 2X the length. The increase in diameter should more than cover that. So either my math and basic understanding is wrong (probable) or the real world doesn't play as nice as it should with that Young's Modulus theory. But interesting how your rolls capabilities aren't that much better. But there's also the theory that double the material thickness would require 8X (I think) the force to roll it at the same width? And double that for material twice as wide? I wonder and since it's been mentioned GHT was apparently a licensed mechanical engineer, how much proper calculation for the expected loads went into that fairly simple looking design for him to come up with the dimensions he used? GHT didn't mention his back round, qualifications or even much about how he came up with his design choices. So I now suspect there was much more to them than I'd thought.

I've almost ordered that UPT tapping/staking kit from Hemingway a few times. I'm certainly "not" and never will be anywhere close to being more clever than GHT on his worst day. But I've always thought after reading the building details in the Workshop Techniques book that adding a second base casting it's main rear column uses and much longer shaft to the table would be a far more rigid method if that table support shaft was allowed to go through that extra casting and the bench top while it was being adjusted up or down. It would then act a bit like the support used with knee mills. In my opinion every sub 1,000 lb drill press available today suffers drastically with table deflection due to the very poor cantilevered design and light weight table to column support. There all an inherently flawed design imo. It's also why I no longer even have a drill press and use my mill instead. Obviously that UPT was designed and meant for tiny drills and work pieces, but it's also been designed as a precision high speed bench drill with multiple other capabilities. Any table deflection at all works at odds and directly against what it was meant to do. For what should be a small added amount of cost and time, plus my own built in biases, I still think it might be a worthwhile addition. It would prevent the table from being moved in a lateral arc at any time, so there is that deficit to my thinking.

And fwiw one further thought. If the supplied main vertical post was allowed to again go through the bench top and the table and it's support casting removed, any small X,Y or rotary table that the UPT's light weight table couldn't adequately support could be bolted down under the spindle and used for coordinate or PCD drilling. That would also allow the motor drive, spindle and whatever cutting tool / tap length to be first and roughly located to the fixed elevation of those tables. But the usual bench mount motor would have to be column mounted on the rear as I've seen some others do. And whatever table is used, then correctly shimming it to the UPT's spindle would be necessary, but that's just a small detail. The usual edge or hole location mill methods and coordinates from those could then be used. I even have a spare & pretty decent Emco C 5 mill X,Y table that would be just about perfect for this.  :)

Offline Chipswitheverything

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Re: 4 Part Video Series About The Current Myford Lathes
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2022, 01:00:06 PM »
Thanks again for the interesting reply Greg.   I am having a major disruption to my broadband connection, since Saturday morning, and no firm idea of when British Telecom will sort it out ( thanks a bunch! ), so will just make this acknowlegement for now.  Dave

 

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