Author Topic: V-TWIN--MAYBE V4  (Read 848 times)

Offline Brian Rupnow

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V-TWIN--MAYBE V4
« on: June 15, 2022, 02:05:18 PM »
I have been so impressed by RReid's build of a v-twin engine on "Model Engine Maker" forum, that I've just had to start modeling my own version. I will use the same cylinder, piston, and cylinder heads (although one of the heads has to be machined "opposite hand") as my 7/8" bore horizontal engine. It is not terribly difficult to design a V-twin engine. However, I'm thinkin' Lincoln,--what if? What if two V twin "stand alone" engines were completely finished then mounted on a common baseplate. Then, with the correct rotational aspect between the two engine crankshafts (using a Lovejoy coupling), wouldn't that make a reasonable v4 engine? I think the second engine would have to be a complete 180 degrees out of phase with the first engine to make this work right, but I'm not totally sure yet. I'm not going to build any engines this summer, but I do love to design.---Brian

Online crueby

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Re: V-TWIN--MAYBE V4
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2022, 02:47:29 PM »
Very interesting - looks like some fun in CAD for you this summer!

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: V-TWIN--MAYBE V4
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2022, 05:59:42 PM »
Okay---That's enough silliness for today. The timing gears are just hanging in space for now, not really positioned accurately.

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: V-TWIN--MAYBE V4
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2022, 09:36:08 PM »
Hell, yes!!!--We can do this. All four valves have lifters. I have one idler gear on backwards but that will be changed. Tomorrow I will figure out how to support the idler gears and work on ignition.

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: V-TWIN--MAYBE V4
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2022, 12:14:36 AM »
With all the gears turned to have the hubs facing in the correct direction, I went ahead and designed a gear guard. I'm not sure of the final shape---It currently looks a bit too much like Mickey Mouse ears. I'll worry about that one tomorrow. The endplates for the crankcase are 1/2" thick, so that lets me use two 3/8" diameter shoulder bolts to support the idler gears.

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Re: V-TWIN--MAYBE V4
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2022, 12:52:31 AM »
The Mickey-V engine!
You have been having fun on the computer today!

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: V-TWIN--MAYBE V4
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2022, 01:18:02 AM »
Yes Chris, it has been a fun day. It is amazing how quickly it comes, when you have ten or twelve years of "Archive files" to steal parts from and tweak them a little bit to fit whatever engine you may be thinking of.  Fifty years ago when I was working on a drafting board, I would never ever have believed what can now be done on a computer. I've got about seven hours in today on this thing, starting from scratch.

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: V-TWIN--MAYBE V4
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2022, 04:38:12 PM »
With two cylinders, each of which must be timed more or less independently of each other, the simplest way for me to do this is with two sets of ignition points. That doesn't really trouble me, and I've found that by mounting the ignition cams to the camshafts, I can bolt a 1/4" thick flatbar across the back of the crankcase endplate to support them. My original thoughts on this engine was that I would run it with an open crankcase similar to what RReid done on his engine, but I see now that I can run it with a closed crankshaft with splash lubrication for the con rods.

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: V-TWIN--MAYBE V4
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2022, 08:09:07 PM »
I've never had a lot of luck putting tight bends into small tubing without kinking it. So---I'm going to make the intake manifold out of a piece of 1/2" aluminum plate. The carb is my old tried and true Traxxas 4033, same as I've used on my other engines.

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: V-TWIN--MAYBE V4
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2022, 08:15:05 PM »
And of course, being an internal combustion engine, it needs a fuel tank. Fuel tanks are generally pretty boring, but I can fancy them up a bit with a real swoopy support bracket.

Offline RReid

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Re: V-TWIN--MAYBE V4
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2022, 12:43:29 AM »
Quote
My original thoughts on this engine was that I would run it with an open crankcase similar to what RReid done on his engine, but I see now that I can run it with a closed crankshaft with splash lubrication for the con rods
I went the other way with mine. Started out planning on a closed crankcase with splash lube, and decided pretty quickly to go with the open form instead, just because I like to see inside and see stuff whirling around.
Regards,
Ron

Offline Art K

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Re: V-TWIN--MAYBE V4
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2022, 03:40:48 AM »
Brian,
 A V4 would be cool! The later Saab 96's that had a V4 instead of the 2 stroke triple were based on a Ford V6 and was used for many years in fork lifts. Good start on the V twin.
Art
"The beautiful thing about learning is that no one can take it away from you" B.B. King

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: V-TWIN--MAYBE V4
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2022, 12:51:11 PM »
Thanks Art--It's good to hear from you. Hope you and your lady have a great summer coming up. I'm burned out on machine building, but I still enjoy the design end of the business. Hope to get back into building when the fall comes.---Brian

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: V-TWIN--MAYBE V4
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2022, 02:09:14 PM »
I went to bed last night, and as I lay there thinking about this engine, I realized that I had neglected to put a flywheel on it. Okay, that lets me get rid of the Mickey Mouse ears gear guard and put two smaller gear guards on--The rest of the gears are covered by the flywheel. I like this much better.

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: V-TWIN--MAYBE V4
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2022, 08:13:45 PM »
Today I thought about pricing brass to use for my flywheel and gas tank. The one supplier I contacted in Barrie, wants $25 for a piece of 4" round brass 1" long (My flywheel). I then tried to find a piece of 1 3/4" round brass to use for a gas tank. Best price I could get was $40 for a piece 3 1/8" long. Not really complicated parts to make, but I like the color contrast. Okay, maybe I'll try something else.--I did a web search for cans of metallic spray paints that are a close match for brass. A spray can of "metallic brass finish" costs $10.00.  Hot rolled steel for the flywheel and  and thin wall steel tubing for the gas tank are so cheap that they almost give it away. In fact, I have some lying around in my materials bin. So---Use hot rolled steel that is essentially free (because I have it) and $10 for some spray paint, or $65 for material to make flywheel and gas tank. The only thing I gain by using brass is that I find it much easier to machine. Somehow it feels a bit like I'm cheating to make something from steel and then painting it to look like brass, but that's a heck of a big price differential.

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: V-TWIN--MAYBE V4
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2022, 09:07:17 PM »
Today I finished detail drawings of all the engine parts. There are 35 drawings including the overall general arrangement. I like the dual exposed camshafts.  It is probably a bit more work to do it this way than with a single center camshaft, but I like the "mechanical" look of it. The extra gears aren't as big an issue as you would think. I just cut my stock extra long when I cut the 24 dp. gears and then part off as many as I need. I've done a bit of preliminary pricing of material, but haven't done any machine work.

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: V-TWIN--MAYBE V4
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2022, 02:13:05 PM »

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: V-TWIN--MAYBE V4
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2022, 02:16:22 PM »
And a bit more--

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: V-TWIN--MAYBE V4
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2022, 02:18:34 PM »
And a bit more again--

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: V-TWIN--MAYBE V4
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2022, 02:20:56 PM »
And one final kick at the can, and that's all folks!!!

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: V-TWIN--MAYBE V4
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2022, 02:23:27 AM »
I had to break down and machine something today. I've read every book in the local library, downloaded everything that I would like to read on my tablet, and done all the household chores my good wife could think of. I actually caught myself reading a book about Zombies today, and decided "Oh boy--Better go machine something.----Zombies---Oh Lord!!!" So, first parts today---Camshaft supports.  I still have some finessing to do on them, and I won't drill the shaft holes until after the main crankcase and gears are made.--I've been caught out on this one before. Far wiser to let the gears determine where the hole for the shafts will be. I know where they go dimension wise, but anytime there is a possibility of stacked up tolerances, it is better to assemble the gears and center-punch thru the bore to get a true center distance.


Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: V-TWIN--MAYBE V4
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2022, 06:21:16 PM »
Today I'm playing with gears. I have a full set of 24DP gear cutters, which seem to fit the size of engines I build very well. I also have a drawer full of random gears that have been recovered from abandoned projects. This little treasure chest of gears yielded two of the 30 tooth gears that I will need. I prepared a 1" diameter piece of  cold rolled steel so that I can cut two 20 tooth gears from it. I only need one, the second will go into my drawer of spare gears. I prepared a piece of 1 3/4" stress proof steel to become two 40 tooth gears. In a perfect world, I would have made the idler gears out of brass, because there is a theory out there that gears of dissimilar metals run quieter. However, since I have the two 30 tooth idler gears already, they are what will be used. Next step will be to set up my rotary table and milling machine to cut teeth on the gears.


Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: V-TWIN--MAYBE V4
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2022, 05:48:29 PM »
After thinking about it for a bit, I decided to go with a brass flywheel. I could have used mild steel (which I already had) but decided it was worth $25 just to avoid all the bandsawing and shaping involved in making the piece from a  1" mild steel plate. I do love those radiused inside corners.


Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: V-TWIN--MAYBE V4
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2022, 09:13:59 PM »
Today was crank-case day. I started with a piece of 4" diameter solid aluminum. My largest drill is one inch diameter, and the finished hole diameter is 3".--So, you know what I've been doing for a goodly part of the day---boring. and boring, and --boring. All of the inner features are finished now, so next thing will be milling the flats for the cylinders and camshaft supports to bolt to.


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Re: V-TWIN--MAYBE V4
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2022, 09:41:48 PM »
As Don might say, Dang dude, you are really moving along on this!!   :ThumbsUp:
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Offline Brian Rupnow

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Re: V-TWIN--MAYBE V4
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2022, 11:17:30 PM »
 A month ago I was so tired of machining things that I wanted to take the summer off and do other interesting things. Come to find out that at 75 years old, there just aren't that many other interesting things to do. I've read until my eyes are sore and I've used up all the good books that I wanted to read. Grandchildren are too grown up or live too far away to go and spend time at the beach. Can't really take a trip because we are terrified of catching Covid.  All my yard work is caught up, and I'm starting to drive my good wife crazy, looking for something to do.  ---Brian