10x22 Grizzly lathe owners should watch this one

[steamer]

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GFTYegrHzY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GFTYegrHzY</a>

Here lies the reason I rebuilt my SB9 from boat anchor status.   I appears that the Grizzly 10x22 has a build problem that is probably endemic to the product, good news is it can be fixed pretty easy.    Take a look....

Dave

[propforward]

Well, mine wasn’t that bad - but yeah, the Grizzly machines - maybe all these import machines are just LOOSE. I won’t buy another Grizzly, although now I’ve sorted out both my machines I’m hopeful I won’t need another machine tool anyway.

Based on my own experience you made the right choice Dave. I’ve still got some vibration to get out of mine, but it’s come a long way and is much improved over what was in the crate.

[Thor]

 I have never seen anything like this. My lathe is a slightly larger Chinese lathe, and my lathe doesn't have the problem shown in the video. The Cross slide has good contact with the saddle (both sides of the Dovetail).
Thor

[Jasonb]

Same as Thor, my 280 (11 x 27) sits as it should and has just been used as it came out the crate, no rebuilding.

Also the same lathe sells as a 250 over here and never seen that issue mentioned.

[Jo]

I always treat the Cheap Chinese tools as a casting set which can be improved upon. They are cheap and made down to a price. The industrial machines the Chinese do are not so cost driven.

Many years ago talking to Roger at Warco (Machine tool importer) he explained the problems as: "At the beginning a decent factory puts together a design and machines up a lathe. These are normally as good as the lathe will get. Then they subcontract out the manufacture of the bits to who ever bids the cheapest price and it all goes down hill if you don't keep on their toes as to keep the prices low they have a tendency to over look poor quality if they get a lower price ".

And then there is the Indian made tooling  not sure how long they would last as a boat anchor.

Jo

[PJPickard]

He uses pliers on the cross slide nuts?! Any respect just went out the window.

[propforward]

Most of these machining / fabricating youtubers are just inexperienced amateurs. Makes me cringe watching them scribe lines with their calipers while claiming to present a tutorial. Very few real experts out there making good tutorial vids. The few real ones are a real treat though - Joe Pie and Tom's Techniques for machining, Welding Tips and Tricks for  - well - welding. Even so, this is an insight into things to look for on an import lathe. Maybe even any used lathe. I don’t know that this cross slide situation is typical, mine is properly sat on the ways, but I had to make a new tapered gib to get mine right. The difference in finish and accuracy as a result was quite astounding.

[Jasonb]

And then there is the Indian made tooling  not sure how long they would last as a boat anchor.

Jo

Can't say about what they are like when used as a boat anchor but I'm still using some of the Indian tooling I must have bought at least 35years ago, the engines that I produce with it are an indication of how poor they is More recently purchased items from India are also working well.

Really comes down to what you are willing to pay for it, those with a moth allergy may be byying the lowest of the low and then tar everything else with the same brush.

[ShopShoe]

I have many interests and read stories about poor quality from many places.

The thing that I think sticks out in general is that what gets out of the factory may vary quite a bit in quality or "fit and finish," or whatever you want to call it. One unit off the line may be great and the next one can't compare at all. You may have to look at some of these products as kits that need completion, but you could be surprised with a really good one. You just have to decide whether it's worth the savings to take the gamble.

The way I look at things, that product from somewhere is probably above the level I could make and maybe on par with an "experienced" machine from decades ago that was used and maintained by unknown users for many years.

The good thing is that forums like this one and some of the information on YouTube is useful to keep you going. You must still consider whether you want to follow what others are doing blindly or to take only what you need.

ShopShoe

[Jo]

Can't say about what they are like when used as a boat anchor but I'm still using some of the Indian tooling I must have bought at least 35years ago, the engines that I produce with it are an indication of how poor they is More recently purchased items from India are also working well.

Not sure what India tools you might have brought 35 years ago, Zither only started exporting to the UK under 20 years ago. They have been known to use Aluminium instead of cast Iron on bearing surfaces on rotary tables and gritty CI on other bearing surfaces  Their lathe chucks are the ones that develop that special bell nose jaw feature 

Jo

[propforward]

I have many interests and read stories about poor quality from many places.

The thing that I think sticks out in general is that what gets out of the factory may vary quite a bit in quality or "fit and finish," or whatever you want to call it. One unit off the line may be great and the next one can't compare at all. You may have to look at some of these products as kits that need completion, but you could be surprised with a really good one. You just have to decide whether it's worth the savings to take the gamble.

The way I look at things, that product from somewhere is probably above the level I could make and maybe on par with an "experienced" machine from decades ago that was used and maintained by unknown users for many years.

The good thing is that forums like this one and some of the information on YouTube is useful to keep you going. You must still consider whether you want to follow what others are doing blindly or to take only what you need.

ShopShoe

Wise words in my opinion.

I'm inclined to believe - without a whole lot of proof to back it up - that when it comes to import machines it is less about that Chinese factory that makes them, and more about the domestic importer that verifies quality. Thus which importer you buy from may matter considerably. We all know Jet, Grizzly, Warco, Precision Matthews and others sell similar and in some cases identical machines nominally - but one importer may have more stringent requirements and actually inspect and back those requirements up.

Maybe. This is conjecture, it may be that all the importers get what they get and have to deal with it.

However, I was in contact last year with both Clausing and LeBlond, thinking about buying a brand new lathe (at 40,000 grand for a hobby, not likely to happen - then again people spend that on a sportscar or luxury motorbike which are essentially nothing but hobbies), anyhoo, was informed by both companies that no manual lathes are made in the States any more.

BUT - in the case of Clausing and LeBlond, their machines are made to their specs, and they have QC departments keeping things correct.

Do Grizzly, PM and others have the same? I suspect not. Hence the price.

In the end, what I paid for my Grizzly ( 12 X 36 back gear lathe) plus time invested in adjusting it and making a couple of new parts have got me a precision lathe at a very decent price. So I guess that's OK. The bed is straight, the cross slide is perpendicular to the bed - the cross slide sits properly and the headstock is parallel to the bed in the Y direction and could be adjusted in the X direction. Those are the more critical aspects I think, other things can be fixed if you've a mind to.

What a load of old waffle that was. 

Can't wait to turn some parts on it this weekend.

[Jasonb]

Soba springs to mind

"Shobha Industries is a leading manufacturer and exporter of high quality engineering tools. We have been exporting high quality engineering tools since 1976 to over 35 countries. "

Again Zither will make to various qualities and at various prices. They are so in demand that they have at least a 2yr lead in time from placing an order for chucks that is why ARC had to source from elsewhere as they just could not get enough to meet demand. Ketan only used them for chucks as other products that were outsourced were not upto the standard he wanted to sell.

[Jo]

Soba springs to mind

I can remember Roger showing me the special tapered parallels made by Soba   

Jo

[Vixen]

And there, I always thought that Soba was a Greek plate smashing film star. Now I know he also makes duff parallels.

Keep it coming Jo and Jason

Mike

[Jasonb]

I can remember Roger showing me the special tapered parallels made by Soba   

Jo

I expect you will tell us they were specially made to complement the Soba vices that did not have flat bottoms and if use right one will cancel the other out

At the end of the day it's what you do with the tools that counts, whether your rotary table has Soba on it like mine or if it's say a Hoffman the label won't help you keep count of the number of turns that make the difference between an acceptable part and one for the scrap pile.

Problem is it's the bad stuff that tends to get written about and then people assume all the products are bad.

Had a chance to watch the whole video now, he did at least use smooth jaw grips on the gib screw locknuts He also missed the fact that the 4th hole at the side of the cross slide has a set screw in it that located in the slot in the gib strip so it does not move backwards & forwards. UK ones tend to have a cap head like the others but without a locknut and can then easily be used to clamp the slide in position or nipped up if you need a bit more stiffness.

Interesting that the Grizzly offering has a different cross slide to the ones seen on the IK machines which tend to have two length ways tee slots and is just one example of what many assume are the same lathe or mill have many subtle differences so can't all be assumed the same Weiss product