Author Topic: Cole's Large Hit and Miss Engine  (Read 765 times)

Offline TerryWerm

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Cole's Large Hit and Miss Engine
« on: June 14, 2022, 03:06:09 PM »
I recently obtained a partially completed Cole's Large Hit and Miss engine (photos coming soon) from an estate sale. It is complete to the point of piston, rod, crank, flywheels, cylinder, base, and valves, although the one flywheel still needs to be machined for the governor. The carburetor casting is missing, as are all of the rest of the small parts that make up the timing, ignition, and exhaust valve train. The saving grace is that I believe I have a full set of drawings for the engine, five sheets in total. Thus, all of the remaining parts can be made.

It obviously sat for a very long time, but I took a few minutes and cleaned it up a bit and oiled the usual places. It spins over very nicely and makes very good compression when one plugs the spark plug hole. The engine does have a number of sins which I will go into when I post photos, but none of them are showstoppers from what I can see. The original builder used a grinder for a lot of things, and as near as I can tell he was attempting to build this engine with only a lathe.

Is anyone here familiar with this engine, or does someone possibly have one? I may find myself needing to ask a question or two here and there.

Looking forward to any and all replies, and I hope to get some photos and more details within the next couple of evenings.
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Terry
Making chips when I can!

Offline A7er

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Re: Cole's Large Hit and Miss Engine
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2022, 06:54:03 PM »
I am looking forward to seeing some pictures!

Offline TerryWerm

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Re: Cole's Large Hit and Miss Engine
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2022, 12:40:16 AM »
I have figured out a few things about this engine and its history. I spent some time with it the other evening and found a number of sins and errors, some of which I was able to correct very easily. But, they also provided some clues to its history.

One of the flywheels was loose on the shaft and could slide side to side about a half an inch, but would not come off because of a gouge on the outboard end of the shaft, which also pushed up a burr. Easily fixed with a needle file and an allen hex key.

The spring for the exhaust valve was weak and would allow the exhaust valve to remain slightly open. Removed it and stretched it out a bit to the length called out in the prints. This resolved the leaky exhaust valve.

The two tapped holes for attaching the carburetor have not even been drilled yet, but the mating surface has been machined smooth.

The bottom of the base was originally machined nicely, but bears no tooling marks, which stumped me at first, but I think that the person who did the work on this may have disliked the tooling marks that were there and thus chose to sand the bottom on a piece of sandpaper placed on a flat surface. This is, of course, just a guess, but it is a reasonable explanation.

Two photos are attached, one is a nice overview, and the other is of the bottom of the base.  More coming right up.
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Terry
Making chips when I can!

Offline TerryWerm

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Re: Cole's Large Hit and Miss Engine
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2022, 12:41:10 AM »
The two holes for attaching the muffler were drilled and tapped, but I believe that a tap was broken off in the bottom one at one point. There was some grinding done at the bottom which will be mostly out of sight when the engine is complete, but may have allowed access to the broken tap or drill so that it could be removed. Ground off spot is visible in one of the photos.

I believe that this engine was being constructed by someone that did not possess a milling machine, only a lathe and maybe a drill press. This became evident because areas that were easy to access with an end mill in a lathe were nicely machined, yet other areas such as the back end of the engine base were done with a grinder. These areas would have been difficult to access with an end mill in a lathe.
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Terry
Making chips when I can!

Offline TerryWerm

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Re: Cole's Large Hit and Miss Engine
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2022, 12:43:18 AM »
The side of the engine base where the timing gears will be attached has been nicely machined with an end mill in three passes, easily set up and run on a lathe.

That is all that I have for now. I need to start looking at the drawings in earnest to figure out where I should begin to move this project forward.
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Terry
Making chips when I can!

Offline Admiral_dk

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Re: Cole's Large Hit and Miss Engine
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2022, 11:33:56 AM »
I have no experience with this engine that I can give you - but I see that you already have figured how to solve some of the 'Features' and other issues :ThumbsUp:

I hope that others might chime in - but under all circumstances Show and Tell - as this gives you much more input from other Members here  :cheers:   :popcorn:

Per

Offline Jasonb

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Re: Cole's Large Hit and Miss Engine
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2022, 01:19:09 PM »
I wonder if the bottom of the bed casting was ever machined, with your thoughts that other parts were not milled then a large area like that would also have presented a problem for many a lathe owner. One only needs to look back at books or magazine articles from the 80s and earlier and most will say file such an item followed by flatting on Emery Cloth on a flat surface.

Grinder marks between the bearing housings could also be over enthusiastic grinding at the foundry

It's a very similar shape to our "Senior" range of engines which all followed the same layout but varied in size and fractions of a horse power.

Offline TerryWerm

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Re: Cole's Large Hit and Miss Engine
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2022, 12:28:27 AM »
People with experience with this engine may be difficult to find as castings for these have not been available for a number of years already. If I recall correctly I only found two videos of this model of engine running on YouTube, and one very brief article about building it from back in 2003. The last owner of Cole's Model Products was Ken Rhodes, and he officially closed the business in 2017. I do not know if this was a very popular set of castings or not, but I do know that they were available already back in the late 40's or early 50's. The drawings bear dates back to February of 1947, and the very first one dates back to 1934!                       

Since I do not yet have any specific questions, responses from the membership may be more frequent once I get going on this, and that is okay. Keep in mind that this may take me a while. Free time is currently very limited due to some health issues of a close family member.

Jason, your thought of file and sandpaper is a very good one, and is a very likely scenario. Thanks for bringing it up!  As for the grinding in the crank area of the base, I don't think it is from the foundry as it appears that it was done with purpose, and not just enough to clean up any flashing. Easy for me to see by eye, difficult to see in the photos. I am wondering if the builder intended to come back and file those areas to trim them up, but never got that far for one reason or another.

To give everyone a better idea of the size of this engine, here are some specs:
Bore: 1 1/4"
Stroke: 1 7/8"
Flywheel diameter: 5 7/8"
Current weight: 18 lbs.

Thanks for the comments, and thanks for looking!
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Terry
Making chips when I can!

Offline Dave Otto

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Re: Cole's Large Hit and Miss Engine
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2022, 12:57:02 AM »
Hi Terry

My friend ended up with a Cole's large hit & miss much the same way that you did. I don't remember all the details but he did make a nice running engine out of it. I would be happy to get some pictures or a video of it running and forward any questions that you may have on to him. He looks at the forum from time to time but does not post.

Dave

Offline TerryWerm

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Re: Cole's Large Hit and Miss Engine
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2022, 01:03:06 AM »
Dave, that would be fantastic, but do not feel obligated. I must admit that some of the drawings were a bit difficult to decipher, but the more I look at them the more things start to make sense. Nonetheless, a few pics of the workings on the side would be most helpful.
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Terry
Making chips when I can!

Offline Dave Otto

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Re: Cole's Large Hit and Miss Engine
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2022, 01:16:56 AM »
I need to go visit him so I will take my camera and shoot some photos of his engine.

Dave

Offline Roger B

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Re: Cole's Large Hit and Miss Engine
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2022, 10:58:26 AM »
Looks to be a fun project anda bit of detective work  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:   :) :wine1:
Best regards

Roger

Offline TerryWerm

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Re: Cole's Large Hit and Miss Engine
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2022, 11:38:23 PM »
I am beginning to think that the detective work is the part that is the most fun!  Of course, the very best is acting on a hunch, making a part to satisfy it, and have it work!
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Terry
Making chips when I can!

Offline Dave Otto

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Re: Cole's Large Hit and Miss Engine
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2022, 01:18:38 AM »
Hi Terry

I made it over to my friends house and took a few photos of his Cole's engine.
Also shot a quick little video of it running.

Hope this helps.
Dave

Offline Jasonb

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Re: Cole's Large Hit and Miss Engine
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2022, 06:57:15 AM »
Usual fine standard of work from your Friend Dave, it runs very consistently.