Author Topic: LONGBOY'S "PARTNERS" MODEL GAS ENGINE! (WEBSTER TWIN)  (Read 1039 times)

Offline Longboy

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LONGBOY'S "PARTNERS" MODEL GAS ENGINE! (WEBSTER TWIN)
« on: April 28, 2022, 05:44:04 AM »
I've been looking at my iconic Webster periodically the last couple years.......with an idea in mind.



  :thinking:     What if Joe Webster designed a twin version? Not too many horizontal gas engines favored in the forums beyond hit and miss. Last fall was the year to develop that concept with just enough recognizable pieces, that all can see the inspiration for the PARTNERS engine was sourced from Joe Webster's model favored by beginner model machinists world wide!



A short build log to follow!   :popcorn:
« Last Edit: April 29, 2022, 05:06:51 AM by Longboy »
Wadda you mean, "It don't run"???

Offline Longboy

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Re: LONGBOY'S "PARTNERS" MODEL GAS ENGINE! (WEBSTER TWIN)
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2022, 05:09:24 AM »
The crankshaft at the back of the parallel frame members mounts on top with a pair of caps. Here trying out some thin wall Oilite bushings. Not working well. They would not stay in place and walk out from under the cap. Tightening down the cap so they stay would gall the crankshaft. Replaced with roller bearings then.

Wadda you mean, "It don't run"???

Offline Longboy

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Re: LONGBOY'S "PARTNERS" MODEL GAS ENGINE! (WEBSTER TWIN)
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2022, 06:07:30 AM »
Most moving components for Partners are within the frame rails. These Tecumseh points set bolt on here and the insulated connection to the battery passes thru the frame just in front of the crank web. A flat spade connect for the wiring.

Wadda you mean, "It don't run"???

Offline Longboy

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Re: LONGBOY'S "PARTNERS" MODEL GAS ENGINE! (WEBSTER TWIN)
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2022, 06:33:42 AM »
Keeping the frame from being an inch longer with an up to 4 in. dia. flywheel plus to not crowd out components near the cylinders, the flywheel is turned 90 degrees with a pair of .5Mod, 20T helical gears. The MXL timing set is 20/40T and the 20 has plenty of room on the crank. Flywheel bearing carrier is off set from center of engine to give the desired alignment clearance for the sprocket.



To get all the shaft components on one shaft up front, the engine would be wider by about 3/4inch. Distributor drive, two cam lobes, cam drive sprocket, and points trigger cam. As it stands, Partners is only 3/16in. wider at the crank bearings than the Webster adding a second shaft here.

« Last Edit: May 01, 2022, 06:37:49 AM by Longboy »
Wadda you mean, "It don't run"???

Offline Longboy

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Re: LONGBOY'S "PARTNERS" MODEL GAS ENGINE! (WEBSTER TWIN)
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2022, 06:45:13 AM »
The two shafts split the driven necessities that make Partners run. A pair of 32P 24T Nylon gears space the shafts apart to clear the flange on the cam sprocket as the second shaft behind drives the distributor and triggers ignition points. Shaft collars secure some thrust movement of the shafts in their bearings at the outside frame. Flats for #6 set screws on shafts for the sprocket and gears only. Cam lobes and points trigger cam need variable positioning on shaft for timing.

Wadda you mean, "It don't run"???

Offline propforward

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Re: LONGBOY'S "PARTNERS" MODEL GAS ENGINE! (WEBSTER TWIN)
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2022, 07:24:59 PM »
Looks like a lot of fun!
Stuart

Forging ahead regardless.

Offline Longboy

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Re: LONGBOY'S "PARTNERS" MODEL GAS ENGINE! (WEBSTER TWIN)
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2022, 09:46:06 PM »
Cylinder heads and valve blocks are recognizably Joe Webster, custom to the needs of Partners of course. Some eighth inch aluminum angle support the distributor body over the frame. Its drive shaft and brass gears between the inside frame and cog drive belt are there thru the miracle of the "just fits" theory! 😊 Crank webs are 12L14 steel anchored to the crankshaft with #10-32 set screws.

Wadda you mean, "It don't run"???

Offline Don1966

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Re: LONGBOY'S "PARTNERS" MODEL GAS ENGINE! (WEBSTER TWIN)
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2022, 12:26:52 AM »
 :ThumbsUp:


 :cheers:
Don

Offline Longboy

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Re: LONGBOY'S "PARTNERS" MODEL GAS ENGINE! (WEBSTER TWIN)
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2022, 07:02:36 PM »
The ex. valve stem and the camshaft are at the same horizontal level. I'll be using these "hanging crows", to transfer the cam lift to the valves.



Profiled on a bar of Delrin before copy to brass, the ex valve is set back 3/8 in. from the fulcrum. The cam lobe sets back an inch from the valve stem. To gain the desired .080 to .100 in. lift at the valve, 5/8 in. diameter Delrin round stock was used for the cam lobes.

A side view on the relationship of the lifter bar, cam to valve.



In brass.



Mounted then to the front end plate and installed to frame.

Wadda you mean, "It don't run"???

Offline Longboy

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Re: LONGBOY'S "PARTNERS" MODEL GAS ENGINE! (WEBSTER TWIN)
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2022, 09:47:24 PM »
My home grown fuel mixers working well. Using a pair on Partners. Easy to make. No throttling. Engine speed varies by fuel/ air mixture.



Using # 14 needles. Seats drilled #55. 10-32 brass machine screws and 3/8 x 3/4in. alum bar stock for body.



One thing irritates me. You can not buy a package of sewing needles in any one size. Seems they are sold only as variety packs of assorted sizes.    :(
Wadda you mean, "It don't run"???

Offline Longboy

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Re: LONGBOY'S "PARTNERS" MODEL GAS ENGINE! (WEBSTER TWIN)
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2022, 06:06:05 PM »
Plumbing up some fuel supply with half inch copper tube. To get any kind of volume at this diameter, a couple of tees extend the capacity right under the frame.



Complete with filler neck and outlets to the mixers.




Four nylon pipe straps hold fuel tank in place. Partners has a slight downward rake to the front for flow to the pickups.

Wadda you mean, "It don't run"???

Offline Admiral_dk

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Re: LONGBOY'S "PARTNERS" MODEL GAS ENGINE! (WEBSTER TWIN)
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2022, 08:33:56 PM »
Very interesting concept or should I say departure from the simple standard version  ;D

You really excel in making it different  :cheers:

Per

Offline Longboy

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Re: LONGBOY'S "PARTNERS" MODEL GAS ENGINE! (WEBSTER TWIN)
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2022, 02:39:33 AM »
The PARTNERS engine completed and showing a willingness to run. Come back this weekend for its premier with the beauty shots and video! ... Dave.



 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Wadda you mean, "It don't run"???

Offline Longboy

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Re: LONGBOY'S "PARTNERS" MODEL GAS ENGINE! (WEBSTER TWIN)
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2022, 07:00:41 PM »
 :thinking: Betcha there are a dozen here following this log that have built the WEBSTER.



And another ten have used ideas from an engine built from plans in their own scratch builds.



While a handfull have taken a second look at an established plan and expanded on the original model in homage to its developer with a fundamental modification.



Thank you Joe Webster where ever you may be! Over ten years and about fifteen gas engines, remembering where it started....... going from Stirling builds to gas!

PARTNERS started last week of Oct. Completed middle of January.



Another's idea becomes a custom build.



Video follows. Thanks for attending!   Dave.






Wadda you mean, "It don't run"???

Offline RReid

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Re: LONGBOY'S "PARTNERS" MODEL GAS ENGINE! (WEBSTER TWIN)
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2022, 08:20:34 PM »
That's a very interesting interpretation/modification/expansion of the Webster, and seems to be a mighty fine runner as well. Congratulations! :ThumbsUp: :cheers:
Regards,
Ron

Online Kim

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Re: LONGBOY'S "PARTNERS" MODEL GAS ENGINE! (WEBSTER TWIN)
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2022, 09:04:04 PM »
That is a very cool engine!   :ThumbsUp: :popcorn:

And quite compact - you crammed a lot of stuff in a little space there.

I love that there is so much to see on this engine.

Kim

Offline Admiral_dk

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Re: LONGBOY'S "PARTNERS" MODEL GAS ENGINE! (WEBSTER TWIN)
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2022, 11:03:20 PM »
I see that it start as easy as I remember most of you models + nice and steady idle :ThumbsUp:

Per

Offline Longboy

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Re: LONGBOY'S "PARTNERS" MODEL GAS ENGINE! (WEBSTER TWIN)
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2022, 12:28:25 AM »
I see that it start as easy as I remember most of you models + nice and steady idle :ThumbsUp:

Per

Thanks Admiral. When you get them to hand start ....you know you got it right!    Dave
Wadda you mean, "It don't run"???

Offline mnay

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Re: LONGBOY'S "PARTNERS" MODEL GAS ENGINE! (WEBSTER TWIN)
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2022, 08:11:25 PM »
Beautiful work.  I love to follow your projects.
Mike

Online MJM460

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Re: LONGBOY'S "PARTNERS" MODEL GAS ENGINE! (WEBSTER TWIN)
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2022, 11:25:06 AM »
Its always interesting to see your unusual interpretations of engine layout.  You clearly have the important parts really well sorted, while your unusual layouts demonstrate that other parts can be arranged in unusual configurations without detriment.

Will you use this engine to drive something?

MJM460

The more I learn, the more I find that I still have to learn!

Offline Roger B

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Re: LONGBOY'S "PARTNERS" MODEL GAS ENGINE! (WEBSTER TWIN)
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2022, 05:12:27 PM »
Excellent  :praise2:  :praise2: I have always stayed away from gear/belt driven flywheels however yours (and Jan Ridder's) seem to work well  :)
Best regards

Roger

Offline Don1966

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Re: LONGBOY'S "PARTNERS" MODEL GAS ENGINE! (WEBSTER TWIN)
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2022, 07:33:49 PM »
 :Love:



 :drinking-41:
Don

Offline Longboy

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Re: LONGBOY'S "PARTNERS" MODEL GAS ENGINE! (WEBSTER TWIN)
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2022, 06:31:54 AM »
Its always interesting to see your unusual interpretations of engine layout.  You clearly have the important parts really well sorted, while your unusual layouts demonstrate that other parts can be arranged in unusual configurations without detriment.

Will you use this engine to drive something?

MJM460
Thanks MJM.  Been inquired of me about using some of the models by making vehicles for them. Not in the works but have a couple with onboard belt driven fans and generators. Happy to just let them idle along after completion and retired to display on the shelves.    Dave
Wadda you mean, "It don't run"???

Offline Longboy

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Re: LONGBOY'S "PARTNERS" MODEL GAS ENGINE! (WEBSTER TWIN)
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2022, 07:14:52 AM »
Excellent  :praise2:  :praise2: I have always stayed away from gear/belt driven flywheels however yours (and Jan Ridder's) seem to work well  :)
Thanks Roger.  Spurs are tried and true for parallel shaft connections like crank to camshaft and the bevel gears work well taking the central drive crank rotations to outboard perimeter shafts via their 90 degree intersects. The MXL sprockets and belts an economic savings over multi gear extensions to driven shafts that are some distance apart. Those scale U-joints for occasional odd angle drives work well too. Part of the tool box of possibilities as I wildcat such one off unique designs. If you come in with an engine design sometime that has needs for extensions, direction changes or layout changes because it has just enough different aspects from those tried, proven and accepted configured engines.........you will know what to use to get those rotating items sync't together.   :ThumbsUp:    Dave
Wadda you mean, "It don't run"???