Menck IV steam shovel model 1:12

[horst.b.0]

In the german metal working forum forum.zerspanungsbude.net you will find my progress report of my steam shovel model. I would like to post progress reports here as well, so that you don’t need to translate the comments.

Recently I was working on boiler fittings. As I use compressed air the boiler is only used to hide the air connection, fittings have no function. The main steam valve on top of the boiler is not operational and always open. Now the injectors are completed.

The steam pump on the left in front of the water tank is the ejector for filling the tank. The two injectors pumped water into the boiler. The picture on the right shows a view from the boom. The container on the left is separated into water tank and a space for ballast. The not yet completed container to the right of the boiler was storage for coal and ballast.

[Kim]

This is truly facinating!  An amazing beast!

Thank you for posting your updates here, I appreciate seeing them!
Kim

[crueby]

Wonderful work! 

On the left side of the picture, it looks like there is a steam line on the end of the main winch drum shaft - is this for a steam-operated clutch to engage the drum? The early-1900's Marion shovels used a mechanism like that to operate a small piston, mounted on and rotating with the drum, that tightened a clutch band.

Also, does the smaller gear that is on left end of the shaft above the drum move side to side to engage the larger gear under it?
Watching along, and thanks for taking the time to post the translations from here out!
Chris

 

[horst.b.0]

On the left side of the picture, it looks like there is a steam line on the end of the main winch drum shaft - is this for a steam-operated clutch to engage the drum?
…
Also, does the smaller gear that is on left end of the shaft above the drum move side to side to engage the larger gear under it?

Hello Chris,
The answer to both questions is ‚yes‘. The steam operated clutch is similar to the one on the Marion engine.
The gearwheel will be shifted by a lever mounted under the roof next to the operator‘s seat. It is used for lifting the boom. The boom is held in it‘s position only by the non-reverse ratchet on the right end of the shaft. I could hardly believe this when I first saw it on the original engine.

Horst

[PJPickard]

I'm a huge fan of shovels and this looks great! More pictures? Please!

[horst.b.0]

Hi all,

Building the water tank and coal bunker was rather time consuming and nerve wrecking. Cutting and bending the sheets went well with my self made bending tools, but connecting the ends to an angle section was difficult. On the original engine, these connections were riveted. I could rivet one side of the angle section (right hand row of rivets in the first picture) to the sheet, but found no way to hammer the rivets inside the bunker. So I used M1.6 mm brass screws with rivet heads for the left hand row. The difficulty was to get the 2.5 mm wide nuts on to the screws 12 cm deep in the narrow tank and tighten them. I finally found a way by making an adapter for a 2.5 mm socket to stick on a Proxxon ratchet driver. As the hole in the socket is deep enough for three nuts I needed the screw to stick out about 5 mm and cut it off after tightening the nut.
This was the typical sort of work where workshop elves could have been a great help. Unfortunately they had gone out for Christmas shopping across the nearby border to France. Because of the Covid related travel restrictions they have to self isolate for 10 days after returning into Germany. This will give me time the next few days to post some pictures of previous building stages in this forum.

Merry Christmas and a good start into 2022 to all of you.
Horst

[kvom]

That piping work is fantastic. 

[Kim]

Looks like pretty hard work to get those fasteners down that far in the coal & water bunkers.  Well done!
Kim

[horst.b.0]

The drive mechanism in the undercarriage seems to be unique to the manufacturer Menck&Hambrock. A review of making the model components (4 years ago!) shows how it worked in full size (and works in the model).
The driving axle is powered by the hoist engine. The first picture above shows the bevel wheel under the winding drum, that can be connected to one of two small bevel wheels on the crank shaft by a dog clutch in the center of the shaft. This was done by the operator. Driving direction was chosen by the bevel wheel connected. The operator did not have a brake!
Power was transmitted through three sets of bevel wheels. Steering and braking was done by a second operator walking behind the engine, who had a separate dog clutch and brake for each caterpillar chain. The first attachment shows the partly built driving and clutch axles. Both axles are split, each side can move separately. The shaft on the top is the ‘clutch axle’, consisting of five separate parts. The large bevel wheel drives a hollow central shaft. Two shafts with gear wheel and brake wheel (band brake) stick in the central shaft. The connection between central and inner shafts is done by dog clutches, built as a sort of pipe sliding sideways on the central shaft connecting shaft to the brake wheel. These clutches are shifted via levers from behind the engine. The second attached picture shows the arrangement in the frame with bearings and band brakes installed.
Like on the original shovel frames are made by riveting sheets and angle sections. I used brass sheets, angle sections and rivets for the model, because I didn’t find steel material of the required size. Rivets are 1 millimeter in diameter, sheets are 1 mm thick.

[Admiral_dk]

Your model looks amazing - though I suspect that you haven't finished the gear / dog-clutch.

How did you make the first big Bevel / Hypoid Gear ?
Did you use a small cutter in order not to hit the axel ?

Best wishes

Per

[horst.b.0]

Your model looks amazing - though I suspect that you haven't finished the gear / dog-clutch.

How did you make the first big Bevel / Hypoid Gear ?
Did you use a small cutter in order not to hit the axel ?

Best wishes

Per

Hi Per,
The dog clutch and gears are finished and working.
I made the bevel gear of the clutch axle seperately with a standard module 1 cutter and then pressed it onto the shaft.

[propforward]

Absolutely splendid work, Horst. Really really good.

[Roger B]

Excellent    These steam shovels have so many complicated mechanisms   

[Admiral_dk]

Ah - yes I now see that the parts are in a different state of finished in the two pictures - should have noticed first time

[Steam Haulage]

I'm full of admiration for anyone who builds a model steam shovel.  Is the full size machine from which you are working near to you? If so could you post a few pictures of it please?

I am (very) slowly working on a Ruston-Bucyrus shovel, so that has to be Diesel. I would have had no problem if my Father was still with us; he spent at least 30 years working on them, mainly RB12 and RB19. Of course he often had components at home. his bench in the garage had become liberally coated with heavy gear oil by the time I came on the scene.

I must compliment you on the clear pictures you have provided

Looking forward to seeing more.

Jerry

[horst.b.0]

I'm full of admiration for anyone who builds a model steam shovel.  Is the full size machine from which you are working near to you? If so could you post a few pictures of it please?

@Jerry: There are two engines left. One is an exhibit in a “Monsterpark” (collection of large earth moving machinery) near Bamberg, Bavaria, the other one was acquired by a group in northern Germany. They wanted to restore it to working condition, but it looks as this might not get completed because of cost and the size of the engine (>50 tons), which would require taking the boom and house off to move it over public roads. The attached pictures were taken in the “Monsterpark”.

I made the model after measuring the “Monsterpark” engine. The overview picture shows the layout of the shovel. It’s equipped as face shovel. Crab and dragline attachments were optional, the engine had actually worked with a crab bucket at a quarry near Heidelberg (almost visible from my home). The crab bucket and boom are now restored with the second engine. The Menck IV model was also available with electric and diesel power. This shovel has three steam engines, the crowd engine mounted on the boom, a vertical engine for the swing mechanism and the main engine for winding drums and drive. On the overview pictures you can see the levers for clutches in the crawler frame (operated from outside). The screws for the brakes (one for each side) below the levers are hardly visible.

The second picture shows the operator’s seat. The three levers on the left are for swing, main engine regulator and steam clutch (main winding drum). The regulator lever can also be opened by a pedal. The lever on the right was originally for the steam clutch of the second winding drum, later modified and linked to the crowd engine regulator. The 3 pedals engage the winding drum brakes and open the bucket brake. To the right behind the seat are levers for engaging the dog clutch for the drive gear and a swing brake (apparently not used). Under the roof on the left is a lever originally used for controlling the crowd engine, a lever on the right moved the gearwheel for lifting the boom.

The view of the winding gear shows the left hand cylinder of the main engine and the winding drums above. The vertical steam engine on the right is the slew engine. The winding drum above the main engine cylinder was not used with the face shovel configuration, therefore the steam clutch valve is not connected.

In the back of the house is the vertical boiler. According to eyewitness reports it did was too small for long continuous work. In 1:12 scale I didn’t see a chance to operate the model with steam, so my model boiler only hides the compressed air connection. To the right of the boiler was the bunker for coal and ballast, to the left was the water tank and ballast bunker.

The next picture shows the crowd engine. Crowd and slew engines could be reversed by a valve reversing the steam flow.

The last picture shows the bucket with it’s band brake. A spring held the band brake tight. To open the bucket the brake was opened by pulling the lever below the brake wheel. This was done by a pedal in the cab. The rope connecting the pedal with with the brake was wound up by a drum on the crowd engine crankshaft when the crowd was moved. A mechanism on top of the bucket kept the brake open until the flap closed by gravity.

On my model I have made almost all mechanical functions operational, but the slew and crowd engines are to weak to move under load. I might try to improve this in a second ‘optimisation’ project. I’m not sure this will eventually work, because I don’t want to make engines too much bigger than scale size.

[cnr6400]

Great photos! Thanks for posting them.

[Kim]

Thanks for the pictures, Horst!

This looks exactly like Mike Mulligan's!

Your model is quite the undertaking!
Kim

[horst.b.0]

The bunker for coal and ballast is now finished and painted with primer.

There will be a maintenance door behind the boiler.

The next item to be made is the second winding drum with steam clutch. I want this drum to be “functional”, but not connected to the rest of the winding gear. As in the original engine the second drum is not needed for the face shovel option. I will also make the exhaust pipes, but just as decoration.
The outside walls of the house will be painted blue similar to the original shovel. There are very few traces of paint on the original, but the exact colour can’t be determined. The inside of the house will be left in grey primer, which means “not painted or unknown colour”.

[propforward]

Wonderful - what an amazing model. Impressive work!

[steam guy willy]

Lovely work here and its good to see actual models of prototypes being made !! Wonderfull workmanship and attention to detail. thanks for sharing this with us !

Willy

[crueby]

Wonderful work!


I notice the tracks in the picture, were they cast or machined from bar stock?

[horst.b.0]

I notice the tracks in the picture, were they cast or machined from bar stock?

Hi Chris,
The tracks are milled from aluminium bar stock.

[horst.b.0]

Today I finished the second winch, but still without bearing, clutch and brake.

As with the main winch, the rope drum and brake wheel (2nd picture right) run loosely on the shaft, which is driven by a gearwheel from the main winch (left in the picture). The clutch is (still to be made) mounted on the front disc, consisting of a band brake tensioned by steam cylinder. This band brake acts on the inner ring in the brake wheel.

In the original shovel you can see the two band brakes that act on the same brake wheel. The outer band is tensioned by foot pedal (e.g. to open an optional clamshell). The inner band is the clutch that connects shaft and winch.

The views from above and from the boom show the tight space in the winding gear. The two large rope drums have 30 mm diameter. The second winch runs at twice the speed because the lifting ropes have a reduction (roll on the bucket).

In order to install the clutch, I have to change the suspension of the main winch brake band, as it is in the way of the rotating steam cylinder.

[Kim]

Wow!  Things really are cramped in there!   
I'm looking forward to seeing you make the clutch mechanism.

Kim

[scc]

Amazing build     My fingers would never cope with this         Following quietly             Terry

[cnr6400]

 

[RReid]

Fantastic work. I'm another who's been following along quietly but with admiration. 

[Roger B]

Excellent work    It's humbling to think that all those complicated mechanisms were designed in 2D on paper with a pencil, no CAD 

[horst.b.0]

Since my last report, I have now built the belt brake of the second winch and connected it to the pedal at the operator’s seat, although if this is not needed for the face shovel equipment. The steam-operated clutch of these winch will come in a later construction phase. In addition, the levers for moving the gearwheel of the boom winch are now installed. Since the boom was not moved when operating with a face shovel, these levers were only needed when setting up the excavator. Via a lever by the driver's seat, the gearwheel can be moved on the shaft and coupled to the main winch. The steam pipes to the crowd engine (not yet built in the model) also had to be separated by loosening several flanges.

Furthermore, I have now covered the bunkers and provided them with hatches for filling coal and ballast. I also needed this part of the roof to install the exhaust pipes for the main and slew engines. The pipe goes through the roof into the blastpipe in the chimney. In the model, the pipes have no function, exhaust steam or exhaust air escapes directly from the valve chest. The exhaust of the crowd engine was also led into the chimney through the valve chest of the slew engine, which I only saw with Menck shovels. I wonder if more than condensate arrived there.

Back to the band brake. I made these from spring steel. Cutting worked nicely with the Proxxon machine with cutting disc, which I attached to the milling head. The cutting discs are extremely at risk of breakage, especially the version without textile layer. If they are not precisely guided, the fragments soon fly through the workshop. With the attachment and clamping of the spring steel on the cross table, I was able to cut very precisely. A disc went about 10 cm through 0.5 mm spring steel.

Next will be the construction of the house on the superstructure with removable walls and roof, so that the beautiful mechanics remain presentable.

[crueby]

More great work, watching along!

[RReid]

Very impressive work. The tools hanging in the background give a great sense of scale!

[steam guy willy]

Hi ..I like the "emergency spanner" left in the cab on the real engine ??!!!

!!!
Willy

[Zephyrin]

Great thread, amazing model with the real shovel behind, fascinating!
the attention to the mechanics is clearly first class.
thanks to share this build !

[gbritnell]

I don't know how I missed this thread but now that I've seen it it is truly and amazing piece of craftsmanship! Outstanding detail. How many trips did you make back and forth to get pictures and dimensions?
gbritnell

[horst.b.0]

How many trips did you make back and forth to get pictures and dimensions?
gbritnell

I had about four trips to one of the „surviving“ shovel. I couldn‘t have made the mechanics without a reprint of a 1930s engineering handbook containing sketches of components hidden within the original machine.

[horst.b.0]

The last few weeks I have been tinkering with the house on the superstructure. Frames and walls are now almost finished.
Now that the beautiful mechanics are largely hidden, I have made part of the roof and walls easily removable with clamping mechanism.
Aligning frames and walls was more complex than expected. There are no sufficiently large straight surfaces to which you can apply an angle. In the original, the housing is screwed together, as it was removed during the transport of the machine. That's why I also worked with screws in the model. The M1 brass screws are reasonably scaled, but handling requires a lot of patience and concentration. Two socket wrenches size 1.6 mm were indispensable. The screwed-in sheets made the house surprisingly stable.
Primer and varnish follow as soon as it gets a little warmer in the workshop. This will end phase 1 of the construction project. In phase 2, refinements will be added.

[crueby]

Great attention to detail, looks terrific.

[Admiral_dk]

Great attention to detail, looks terrific.

Amen to that 

Only question - what happened to the colours in the first picture 

Per

[horst.b.0]

Only question - what happened to the colours in the first picture 

Per

That‘s the camera‘s idea of automatic colour temperature adjustment, just confused by daylight coming in from the left side. I am not very good in correcting colour in Lightroom, so I left it.

[Admiral_dk]

Yes automatic does not always mean what you hope / aim for 

[horst.b.0]

After walls and roof of the house are finished, waiting for higher temperature to get painted, I started making the levers and steam pipes for the (not functional) crowd engine. To move the boom on the original engine, six flanges of the steam pipes had to be loosened. Therefore a steam valve was installed near the operator’s seat. My model steam valve lets the air  through, but it can’t block the air flow. I would need shop elve’s help to operate the model hand wheel because there is not enough space for my fingers. I tried to make curved spokes in the hand wheel like on the original. It’s not perfect, but shows the shape.

[derekwarner]

Horst.....not sure if you are aware, but in real life, globe valves in industry [especially marine] were tightened & unloosened  by a manual lever with a twist knuckle in the head....this grips the spokes in the valve rotary wheel handle

This was especially important where hand operation was not physically practicable due the location of the valves

Again in many cases these handles were hung against the railings surrounding these series of valve chests

It's a generational thing, today all of these valves would have a pneumatic or hydraulic actuator with proximity switching and all linked to a PLC system..............in earlier years , humans were needed to open & close these valve functions

Derek

[Dan Rowe]

Horst, nice looking valve and handwheel.

Derek, on this side of the pond we call that tool a wheel wrench. Most of them were shop made from a 3/4" round bar with two pieces welded at a 90-degree angle. There was one or two on every deck of the engine room in a pipe welded to the railing. I made one up in my shop to bend red hot iron.

Cheers Dan

[horst.b.0]

I should make a 1:12 wheel wrench for the shop elves 

[crueby]

That wheel wrench is my new-thing-learned today!

[Dan Rowe]

Here is one I found by a google search of wheel wrench.

Now I have to make a scale version for my mini tool collection.

Cheers Dan

[derekwarner]

Yep.....thats it Dan 'there was one or two on every deck of the engine room in a pipe welded to the railing'. including the E/R bottom Flat where the valves for Sea Chests to manifold pipes connected again with isolation valves to Eductor and Ballast mains

The 'wheel wrench'   , absolutely invaluable 

Derek

[horst.b.0]

The Menck steam shovel is now equipped with a non functional ashpan, which can easily be removed to give access to the compressed air connection.

The crowd engine now has levers connecting the reversing-valve to the operator’s place. As the crowd engine does not really work with compressed air, I decided to make scale size steam pipes which can’t take air pressure. The flanges are held by 1 mm brass screws. There was no flexible pipe connection between the house and the boom. To move the boom, six flanges had to be unscrewed.
Walls and the roof of the house are removed, awaiting painting. I will make a display cabinet for the model to protect it from dust.

[Michael S.]

Hello Horst,

this will be a very good model of an excavator.
Maybe I can admire it live at some exhibition.

Michael

[horst.b.0]

The Menck IV steam shovel model is now painted. That's the end of building phase one.
Phase two now starts with attempts to improve the crowd and slew engines. Some design work will be necessary before I can start cutting metal.

[Admiral_dk]

Wow - place it in a different background scenario and you might fool people to believe it is a full size (for that, it might also need some wear and tear + fading colors)     

Per

[ddmckee54]

Horst:

Did you mean that for you to move the boom you have to unscrew the flanges?  If that's the case then maybe you could slot the flanges and leave the bolts loose enough to allow the flanges to rotate?  That way you could raise and lower the boom without having to tear it apart.

Don

[horst.b.0]

Hello Don,
I‘d like to stick to the operation of the original engine. They had to loosen the screws on the flanges, so they avoided moving the boom.

Horst

[crueby]

Can you explain more about moving the boom? I must have missed that earlier in the thread and can't find it. Which parts dont move easily? 

[horst.b.0]

Hello Chris,
It‘s the steam pipes to and from the crowd engine, see the second picture in my April 17th post. There is no flexible steam connection between the house and the boom. Six flanges had to be loosened to move the boom. Actually I haven’t found out how they lowered the boom, as there is no brake for the winch.

Horst

[crueby]

Ah, now I understand.  Most of the shovels like that only lowered the boom down for transport, in operations the boom stayed at that fixed angle and the dipper stick did all the up/down/in/out moving. For loading the machine on a rail car for transportation, the stick would be removed, all pipes disconnected, and the boom lowered down using the bucket cable reconnected to the end of the boom. On the Marion I modelled there were extra pulleys used just for that process. I'll check the catalogs for pictures of that...