Author Topic: S/N 10 Shay  (Read 8587 times)

Online Dan Rowe

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1163
  • Dripping Springs TX USA
Re: S/N 10 Shay
« Reply #45 on: December 10, 2021, 02:58:28 PM »
Thanks, guys for following along with this build.

Chris I checked with Bob and he made the roof from basswood. I thought it was ash also. The main frame and wood truss are oak and the upright posts are maple and are 5/32" or 4mm square.

There was not really any way to figure out the depth of the main frame beam so after scaling the wood truss to 1/4" square I made the frame rail 5/16" wide. Well, that wound up to be a bad choice.

The angle boards on the log bunk have 3 visible support brackets the 2 on the vertical posts worked fine, but the one that shows the lower bolt in front of the wood truss was an issue.

The space between the cab post and the wood truss is 1/16" which is how wide the log bunk boards are. When I finally got around to drawing this in 3D I noticed the lack of space to fit the bracket for the angle board. Our first plan was to cut the bracket at an angle and cover the goof with logs.

After a bit of consideration, we decided to raise the log bunk to clear the wood truss. I thought that I could use the same angle brackets I had sent Bob but after a bit of time on the drawing board that was not going to work because of the board spacing.

I made a new set of longer maple posts and milled the half round section to make it easy for Bob and made a new set of angle brackets.

A spot of luck was that I could use the same drilling fixture I used the first time because there was just enough room to add the extra hole needed.

Here is the fixture in action, the extra hole can be seen in the vise.



The new parts should get to Bob by Monday so now this thread is up to date.

Cheers Bob and Dan

ShaylocoDan

Online Dan Rowe

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1163
  • Dripping Springs TX USA
Re: S/N 10 Shay
« Reply #46 on: December 15, 2021, 10:35:21 PM »
I got a start on the trucks today. I cut a square channel from a section of hot rolled steel 1" x .25" to make the pedestals which is what the left truck bearing box is called on a Shay. This is the early version with the arch bars in the same plane like a freight or log truck.



The top channel is for a Shay project that will be getting restarted soon. Nothing like building 4 Shays at one time. I need to hire a bunch more shop elves soon.

Here are the parts ready for the fancy bits in the middle.



Cheers Bob and Dan

ShaylocoDan

Offline Admiral_dk

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2656
  • Sften - Denmark
Re: S/N 10 Shay
« Reply #47 on: December 16, 2021, 11:33:32 AM »
You are both productive - sometime it helps "keeping deadlines", when more are involved.

Kind of funny to see the origin of these locomotives - most I have seen also ran on a public line, so apperance was deemed important too - but as these where 'just workhorses in the woods', so 'cheep and easy to make' where more important in the beginning .... or so it appears. Another thing would be that in a lumber yard you got a plentiful cheap resurce to build with - so they only used metal where it was needed.

Per

Online Dan Rowe

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1163
  • Dripping Springs TX USA
Re: S/N 10 Shay
« Reply #48 on: December 17, 2021, 01:13:16 AM »
Per, yes the early Shays were crude and it took a few years to work out some of the weak parts of the design. Then starting around shop number 100 they started making them look fancy with fluted domes and fancy stacks. The ornamentation was dropped about 1900 and they became plain but sturdy.

Bob fitted the new maple posts and made oak boards for the log bunk. The angle brackets will fit this time.



I made cut the arch and tie bar stock with my die filer set up with a hacksaw and cleaned up the rough cuts on the mill. I had to think about the pedestal bearing to come up with a plan so I was stalling with easy parts.

Cheers Bob and Dan
ShaylocoDan

Offline Admiral_dk

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2656
  • Sften - Denmark
Re: S/N 10 Shay
« Reply #49 on: December 17, 2021, 10:53:03 AM »
Oh man, what a bit of paint and oil (on the wood) will do to apperance => looks really good.

 :popcorn:    :cheers:

Per

Online Dan Rowe

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1163
  • Dripping Springs TX USA
Re: S/N 10 Shay
« Reply #50 on: December 17, 2021, 04:04:02 PM »
Per, thanks yes the wood is looking good. I mentioned to Bob that I really like the look of the oak, he cut it with a band saw and it left the blade marks which did not get sanded. Bob is planning to redo the roof boards in oak which would have been very common around Lima OH in the 1880's.

Cheers Bob and Dan
ShaylocoDan

Offline crueby

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14277
  • Rochester NY
Re: S/N 10 Shay
« Reply #51 on: December 17, 2021, 04:47:15 PM »
So which of you or Bob gets to keep the finished model?  Terrific progress.

Online Dan Rowe

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1163
  • Dripping Springs TX USA
Re: S/N 10 Shay
« Reply #52 on: December 17, 2021, 09:46:59 PM »
Chris. the Graham Shay engine belongs to Bob and he hired me to build a set of trucks to go with the engine. I picked the prototype because it is mostly wood. I will be making all the metal parts including the boiler for Bob. The boiler is a design I have been thinking about for some time now so that will be a fun job.

Cheers Bob and Dan
ShaylocoDan

Online Dan Rowe

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1163
  • Dripping Springs TX USA
Re: S/N 10 Shay
« Reply #53 on: December 21, 2021, 08:48:46 PM »
The third reference on the Wikipedia page for Shay locomotives mentioned this Shay and said it had a few defects.

https://books.google.com/books?id=3-bNAAAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA37

I have the parts of the pedestal ready for silver solder which I will have a go at tomorrow. The round center section will be a bronze bushing. The tiny section of T stock is for the oil hole. It forms the front part of the oil filler. It will be a working oiler and there will be a working adjusting bolt for the gear thrust.



Cheers Bob and Dan
ShaylocoDan

Online Dan Rowe

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1163
  • Dripping Springs TX USA
Re: S/N 10 Shay
« Reply #54 on: December 23, 2021, 12:18:20 AM »
I had to clean the shop until I found my propane regulator....well that took all morning. I did get the first step silver soldered which is the bent strap and T section. I have two more silver solder steps to complete tomorrow.

Bob has the log bunk looking good. I did not send him enough angle brackets so the forward one is missing.



Cheers Bob and Dan
ShaylocoDan

Offline crueby

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14277
  • Rochester NY
Re: S/N 10 Shay
« Reply #55 on: December 23, 2021, 02:57:01 AM »
Great job you guys!   :popcorn:

Offline PJPickard

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 241
Re: S/N 10 Shay
« Reply #56 on: December 23, 2021, 12:36:31 PM »
Looking good, I'm curious about the boiler design!

Online Dan Rowe

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1163
  • Dripping Springs TX USA
Re: S/N 10 Shay
« Reply #57 on: December 23, 2021, 09:57:36 PM »
Thanks Chris, and yes Bob's wood work is looking really good.

Paul, the first step is to think about what is known about the Shay vertical boilers......

I finished the silver solder steps today. All the strap and T section assemblies had a slot filed on the top to fit the last section. This was to hold the last tiny piece in place for silver solder. Here is one setup for the second silver solder operation and the steps shown in progression.



Now they are ready to be bored for the bronze bushings.



There are no drawings for any of the vertical Shay boilers built at Lima. There is a written description from 1884 that gives the dimensions of the boilers built at that time.

"Seven Ton."
     "Boiler, upright, 44 inches in diameter by 78 inches high and contains 125 tubes 30 inches long by 2 inches in diameter, and so constructed that the tubes are submerged. Engines 7 inch stroke by 7 inch bore."

"Nine Ton."
     "Boiler, upright, 48 inches in diameter by 90 inches high and contains 155 tubes 34 inches long by 2 inches in diameter, and so constructed that the tubes are submerged. Engines 8 inch stroke by 8 inch bore."

It was the statement that the boiler was constructed with submerged tubes that I did not understand until I found a drawing in an old boiler book that showed a submerged tube vertical boiler.

Using the dimensions for the 9 ton Shay and the drawing in the boiler book I drew the boiler that must have been very similar to the Shay boilers.



The design for this build will be a 2.5" copper tube with a reducer fitting for the upper smoke box. It will have nine 5/16" tubes rolled into the tube sheets and a dry firebox. I will show the drawings when I get to that part of the build.

Cheers Bob and Dan
ShaylocoDan

Offline MJM460

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1493
  • Melbourne, Australia
Re: S/N 10 Shay
« Reply #58 on: December 23, 2021, 11:21:53 PM »
Hi Dan, I was another puzzled by the boiler description.  The picture makes it clear now.  It will be a trick to solder, but I am sure you have a plan.

You and Bob are doing a great job of an early historic engine.  Its shaping up to look way better than the original.  Great job, and its great to follow along.

MJM460

The more I learn, the more I find that I still have to learn!

Offline PJPickard

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 241
Re: S/N 10 Shay
« Reply #59 on: December 24, 2021, 02:26:42 AM »
If anyone is confused about the "submerged tubes" boiler(as I most certainly was) at this link there is an illustration that cleared it up for me. Note that there is a reference to KN Harris' book about a submerged tube boiler, I have that book somewhere I need to dig it out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_fire-tube_boiler