Author Topic: Shay Locomotives how to find the drawings to build one  (Read 981 times)

Offline Dan Rowe

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Re: Shay Locomotives how to find the drawings to build one
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2021, 07:57:26 PM »
Kim, thanks, for me researching Shays and finding unknown details is almost as fun as building Shays.

I made my first Shay research trip sometime in the early 1990s. CSRM is open from 1:00 to 5:00 four days a week. That is exactly the amount of time I spent with the red books that are the Shay database. On the last day about 20 minutes before closing I had 4 or 5 legal pages full of drawings I found interesting by the title only. I asked about ordering the drawings and I was told about the ten drawing limit. What a crushing blow  :zap: I managed to pick 10 and then drove to ACHS.

At the Allen County Museum, I met Charles Bates for the first time. He is very friendly and helpful and piled more Shay information in front of me than I could handle at the time. I have spent several days back in the stacks at Allen County looking at Shay drawings and I always enjoy the trip. This is why I became a lifetime contributing member of the Allen County Historical Society. If Charles gets a question about Shays that he can not answer it shows up in my inbox.

Cheers Dan
ShaylocoDan

Offline Dan Rowe

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Re: Shay Locomotives how to find the drawings to build one
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2021, 10:53:18 PM »
I know everyone likes pictures so here is my drafting office.

Cheers Dan
ShaylocoDan

Offline crueby

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Re: Shay Locomotives how to find the drawings to build one
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2021, 11:03:28 PM »
You mention a ten drawing limit - is that how many you can get copies of at a time? Hopefully not a lifetime limit!   :o

Offline Dan Rowe

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Re: Shay Locomotives how to find the drawings to build one
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2021, 11:08:13 PM »
No simply 10 at one time then 10 more then 10 more and 10 more.... :popcorn: just like popcorn.

Cheers Dan
ShaylocoDan

Offline crueby

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Re: Shay Locomotives how to find the drawings to build one
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2021, 11:35:31 PM »
No simply 10 at one time then 10 more then 10 more and 10 more.... :popcorn: just like popcorn.

Cheers Dan
Ah, Good!

Been to stores that did limits on some things, so out to car, drop in bag, go back in store for another.... Yes, just like popcorn!

Offline Dan Rowe

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Re: Shay Locomotives how to find the drawings to build one
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2021, 11:56:56 PM »
Chris, it is not really that simple, orders can take a while so I hate wasting drawing slots when I order more. They wait until they have a bunch of orders and process the whole batch at once. The good news is the drawings are being scanned at the same time as some of the paper is elderly and brittle.

I just order what I need from ACHS so that is my favorite store but there is not an online catalog.

If anyone wants to give this a try for a Shay shop number 2999 or less send me a PM and I will scan the DCI and send it.

I have about 2500 DCIs in my drawing office. The top 8 drawers of the flat file in the photo are filled with Lima Shay cards.

Cheers Dan
ShaylocoDan

Offline crueby

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Re: Shay Locomotives how to find the drawings to build one
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2021, 12:39:40 AM »
If only that kind of plan library existed for Marion. And Lombard. Allis. Many more...




Thanks for sharing this!

Offline PJPickard

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Re: Shay Locomotives how to find the drawings to build one
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2021, 01:44:12 AM »
Amazing stuff Dan, really.

And I hate to take this into the realm of railroad stuff..but I really wish we had it for General Steel Castings and Alco too.

I knew that there was a lot of Shay drawings...I had no idea it was as extensive. I love your drawing office! Mr Woodward would be proud!

Offline Dan Rowe

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Re: Shay Locomotives how to find the drawings to build one
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2021, 02:12:06 AM »
There is also a lot of drawing cards for Lima rod locos but I have never looked very hard in that direction. Just saying if superpower is what you are looking for.

I really think I hit the jackpot finding the Shay drawings and learning enough to be able to find the drawings to draw several Shays. So far I have drawn S/N 181, S/N 517 (geared loco not a Shay), S/N 673, S/N 1823, S/N 1928, S/N 2091, and S/N 2800. When I say I drew them I mean I drew all the parts and assembled them in 2D cad.

It is S/N 1928 on the wall in the photo. The drawing is 7/8" scale. This one has a 3-10x10 engine and was the largest Shay built for 2' gauge.

Cheers Dan
ShaylocoDan

Offline PJPickard

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Re: Shay Locomotives how to find the drawings to build one
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2021, 02:32:29 AM »
Dan,

I've always like the Silver City one from way back in Model Railroader.

Do you think Al Armitage's drawings are pretty good? I have all those issues and have looked at them over the years.

I will also have to decide how far to go in drawing...while I have and use Inventor it is easy to go down the rabbit hole of building the whole thing in 3D. That is really another hobby altogether. At my age and my list of stuff I want to build I need to build more than draw! But of course you need to do both!


Offline crueby

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Re: Shay Locomotives how to find the drawings to build one
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2021, 02:52:34 AM »
Just noticed a couple of shop elves by the frames on top of the plan drawer unit. My elves say Hi!

Offline Dan Rowe

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Re: Shay Locomotives how to find the drawings to build one
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2021, 03:08:16 PM »
I've always like the Silver City one from way back in Model Railroader.

Do you think Al Armitage's drawings are pretty good? I have all those issues and have looked at them over the years.

Paul, one of the main reasons I started this thread is you said you read my work in SITG now that reference most likely went right past most readers. When I left the Shay book project they kicked me off the staff of Shaylocomotives.com. I sent what I wrote for the book to Ron Brown a G1 live steam buddy and it was published in Steam in the Garden.

You recognized the Silver City Shays on the list of my drawings but for those not as familiar with Shays Silver City had 5 engines. #1 and #2 were from the Gilpin Tramway #1 S/N 181 and #2 S/N 199. The #3 and #4 were identical sister engines S/N 1672 and S/N 1673. The last one is S/N 1928 which was delivered to Silver City but most likely never was used there. The engineer who survived the wreck of #4 was reported as saying only a damned fool would take that engine down that track. The #5 was for an expansion of the operation that never happened because of the 1907 financial panic that ended the Silver City operation.

Here is a link to a bunch of Shay drawings that have been published:
https://www.shaylocomotives.com/draw/ShayDrawings-by-class.pdf

It was Al Brewster that drew S/N 1672 for MR and Al Armitage who drew S/N 1673 for the NG Gazette. Both are fine drawings but at this point, I only want to work with Lima Cards and I rarely look at drawings published in magazines. I would avoid any drawing by Robert Stephens, they are simply garbage. I was a subscriber to Outdoor Railroader when they were published and one issue actually made me yell at a magazine. His stuff is a lot of rubber stamp of the same engine. I did learn something from his BAD example. Three of the Shays on my list have the same 2-6x10 engine
and none of them have the crankshaft at the same angle.

Have you considered 2' gauge Shays? the scale for G1 is 7/8" and there is a very active G1 live steam community with several events each year. Even if you want to simply run in the back yard G1 track is easy to find to make a backyard layout.

I have been thinking about ALL the 2' Shays and I can help a lot with any 2' Shay build.

Cheers Dan
ShaylocoDan

Offline Dan Rowe

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Re: Shay Locomotives how to find the drawings to build one
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2021, 06:13:39 PM »
I will also have to decide how far to go in drawing...while I have and use Inventor it is easy to go down the rabbit hole of building the whole thing in 3D. That is really another hobby altogether. At my age and my list of stuff I want to build I need to build more than draw! But of course you need to do both!

Paul, almost all my drawings have been 2D cad because I like to redraw Lima cards. I do not really see the need for 3D cad unless you are having parts or patterns made by a 3D printer. I have had several patterns made in bronze by Shapeways so I use Alibre for the 3D work but I still draw the card in 2D first.
 
Cheers Dan
ShaylocoDan

Offline Dan Rowe

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Re: Shay Locomotives how to find the drawings to build one
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2021, 05:46:49 PM »
I found the original dataset that has been on the web for a while that was generated from the DCIs and the DIs in the CSRM collection. Simply put 'Shay' in the first CSRM database link. The problem is it is 86 pages and 1710 records. Now, this is much smaller than all the Shays built it is a lot of information. I downloaded it all to MS Word and I will make an Excel file from that.

I mentioned that the order number is the key for Shays S/N 3000 and greater and I have realized that there is no way for anyone to figure out the order number. It is not on the web and not in any of the various books that have a Lima Shay roster. The Excel file I am working on will solve that problem so the last 334 Shays built will be included in the instructions on how to find a Shay drawing.

Cheers Dan
ShaylocoDan

Offline Dan Rowe

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Re: Shay Locomotives how to find the drawings to build one
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2021, 10:12:54 PM »
Here is the computer corner of my drafting office.


The Shay is S/N 10 the fourth Shay built and only one of two that look like a bridge on wheels. I only have the builder's photo to work with and the engine is a rare Graham Shay engine. This is the first time I have drawn a whole Shay with 3D cad it was a thrill to spin the wheel to see the other one and all the gears turn.

Cheers Dan

ShaylocoDan