Author Topic: Minnie TE (1")  (Read 2434 times)

Offline cwelkie

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Minnie TE (1")
« on: October 02, 2021, 02:04:25 PM »
Although I haven't been posting a build log I thought I'd share a couple photos of my Minnie in its current state.  I started it in January this year with a set of Reeves castings and some copper.  The only "parts" left to deal with are the steering chains so now it's down to paint considerations.  I hate painting so it may be some time before I take this apart one-more-time.

Any suggestions regarding suitable materials and their use to resist heat and reassembly would be appreciated. (I know this question might be like asking about the best motor oil to use but I'll take my chances ...)
Cheers
Charlie

Online propforward

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2021, 02:39:36 PM »
Lovely engine - I was giving this serious consideration as a project - how are the Reeves castings and drawings - everything pretty accurate or did you have any issues along the way?
Stuart

Forging ahead regardless.

Offline crueby

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2021, 02:59:20 PM »
That is one beatiful model! Very well done!

For paint, I have had great luck with the DupliColor brand, specifically the Engine Enamel With Ceramic. Its a spray paint intended for car engines, comes in the usual rattle cans. Dries to touch in minutes, goes on with a very thin layer, covers well, and takes heat up to about 500F. No baking or special curing required like some of the earlier high temp paints. I have used it on boiler shells, smokeboxes, and engines, with no blistering or peeling. Fairly tough stuff. They have some decent colors, not a huge selection but the basic red/blue/green/black/greys.

Offline cwelkie

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2021, 03:20:51 PM »
Thank you Stuart and Crueby

Stuart - the Reeves castings were all very good.  The shaft bearings required some care in cutting away from the "strip" they are cast in - could have used a bit more material between them for comfort.  In the end I didn't use the piston casting but that was only because I didn't want to put a gunmetal piston in a gunmetal cylinder.  It probably would have been fine but just didn't "feel right".  The drawings were also good.  I had the advantage of having the Mason book to hand and highly recommend it for the tips and processes.  One could easily build the engine from the book alone.

Crueby - thanks for the tip about Duplicolor paints. I'll check around to see if they available up here in Canada.

Offline crueby

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2021, 03:25:18 PM »
Yup - looks like both NAPA and Canadian Tire carry it, according to quick google search. Am sure others do too. Looks like a different label on the can, but same stuff.

Offline Kim

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2021, 04:56:55 PM »
Hi Charlie,
That's a beautiful model you've made there!  And you've nearly completed it in only 9 months? I find that amazing!  I spent 3 years on a similar traction engine.

As for paint, I used Rust-Oleum high-temperature spray paint (rattle can variety).  It's very similar to what Chris described with the DupliColor, but it gives you yet another brand to check on.  The high-temp paint comes in a few colors - I know it comes in black, red, and green since I used those, but there are more.  Not as wide of a selection as the standard paint, but some good choices.

It's so beautiful in metal, it's a shame to paint it!

Make sure and post pics when you're done.
Kim

Offline scc

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2021, 07:50:38 PM »
Lovely model!    Well done.       Terry

Offline cwelkie

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2021, 08:32:29 PM »
Thanks Kim and Terry.

Crueby and Kim - did you use any primer under the colour coat with Dupli-color or Rustoleum?  Given all the different materials at play there may not be one "right" answer ... I'm thinking that an etch primer for the wheels would be advisable given the aluminium rims even though the spokes are steel and the hubs are gunmetal and brass. At least heat won't be as issue ... with luck  :D
 

Offline crueby

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2021, 08:41:40 PM »
Thanks Kim and Terry.

Crueby and Kim - did you use any primer under the colour coat with Dupli-color or Rustoleum?  Given all the different materials at play there may not be one "right" answer ... I'm thinking that an etch primer for the wheels would be advisable given the aluminium rims even though the spokes are steel and the hubs are gunmetal and brass. At least heat won't be as issue ... with luck  :D
I did not use any primer. It would need to be a similar heat resistant primer or it would bubble up when hot. The Duplicolor doesnt need it. Clean surface only, no oil residues. Have not tried it on aluminum, on that a etch primer would probably be a good idea.

Offline Craig DeShong

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2021, 09:02:41 PM »
Lovely model!

Regarding the Dupli-color engine enamel; I've used it for years.  I have a small engine collection and all the engines have been refinished with it.  The paint has held up well, but then I don't run them long enough to get scorching hot.

I do have a problem with it on aluminum.  I even use an etching primer and oil seems to soften the paint after a while.  The aluminum frames of my Otto & Langen models were painted with it and the paint on them seems to be holding up well, but then the frames don't get saturated with oil.

I've painted my live steam locomotive with it also.  I used a high temperature BBQ flat black on the smoke box because it gets insanely hot.  The boiler wrapper is the Dupli color and I noticed that after a few seasons the paint seems to dull.

It's about as good a rattle-can paint as you're likely to find.
Craig
The destination motivates us toward excellence, the journey entertains us, and along the way we meet so many interesting people.

Offline Kim

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2021, 05:52:31 AM »
Thanks Kim and Terry.

Crueby and Kim - did you use any primer under the colour coat with Dupli-color or Rustoleum?  Given all the different materials at play there may not be one "right" answer ... I'm thinking that an etch primer for the wheels would be advisable given the aluminium rims even though the spokes are steel and the hubs are gunmetal and brass. At least heat won't be as issue ... with luck  :D
I did not use any primer. It would need to be a similar heat resistant primer or it would bubble up when hot. The Duplicolor doesnt need it. Clean surface only, no oil residues. Have not tried it on aluminum, on that a etch primer would probably be a good idea.

Same on the Rust-Oleum high-temp.  Some are listed for engine use and some for BBQ use.  Don't know if there's a temp difference between them.  I didn't use a primer for the same reason Chris said.  Can't say much about wear.  The paint still looks pretty good after a few years, but then, it hasn't seen much hard use (or much use of any kind other than looking at it on the shelf! :)).

Kim

Offline Roger B

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2021, 08:15:57 AM »
Excellent job  :praise2:  :praise2:  :wine1:
Best regards

Roger

Offline cwelkie

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2021, 02:28:29 PM »
Thanks Craig and Roger.

Thanks all for the shared experiences and suggestions. Amazing as it may be, our local Canadian Tire carries Dupli-color engine enamel.  They also have a "VHT" header paint that might be good for the "Very hot" bits.  I do have a means to bake/degas it so might test it directly on some copper to see how it goes.

Crueby - we get different labels for everything ... bilingual you know  ;)

Promise to post updates as this progresses - just have to decide on colour(s) and I'm not too thrilled with the usual green/red (no offence Kim!) ... maybe blue?

Offline RReid

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2021, 03:14:52 PM »
Quote
They also have a "VHT" header paint that might be good for the "Very hot" bits.  I do have a means to bake/degas it so might test it directly on some copper to see how it goes.
I used VHT on the brass "smokebox" of my little live steamer, since it's in direct contact with the pot boiler and gets pretty hot. I didn't bake it at all, and it doesn't seem to mind. Still looks good after multiple firings. It is a very "black" black, so all details disappear in weak lighting. For that reason I used a slightly more "gray" black everywhere else.
Regards,
Ron

Offline Kim

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2021, 11:33:15 PM »
Promise to post updates as this progresses - just have to decide on colour(s) and I'm not too thrilled with the usual green/red (no offence Kim!) ... maybe blue?

None taken!  Blue would be a wonderful color :)  :ThumbsUp:  :popcorn:

Kim

Offline cwelkie

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2021, 12:31:07 AM »
Ron - thanks for sharing your experience with the VHT paint. I think that’s going to what I try first.
Charlie

Offline joe d

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2021, 08:58:40 PM »
Charlie:

I might be a little biased, but I think blue is just fine for a Minnie...



This is a Rustoleum product, looks nice, adheres well to steel or iron, can peel it off brass with my fingernail.

Cheers, Joe

Offline ettingtonliam

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2021, 10:22:03 PM »
Sorry to disagree, but very few traction engines were blue, at least in their working lives, particularly not that bright blue. Doesn't appeal to me at all. Sorry.

Online propforward

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2021, 11:39:46 PM »
Charlie:

I might be a little biased, but I think blue is just fine for a Minnie...



This is a Rustoleum product, looks nice, adheres well to steel or iron, can peel it off brass with my fingernail.

Cheers, Joe


That’s a nice model - looks great. Not the colour I would choose but I think it’s excellent to just go your own way and paint it the way you want.

There are a couple of Stuart model engines on ebay right now, and I was going to bid, but I think I’d rather spend the money on a Minnie instead.
Stuart

Forging ahead regardless.

Offline cwelkie

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2021, 03:59:47 AM »
That’s a very nice Minnie Joe! The beauty of a Minnie is that it isn’t a scale model so we can paint them (or not) as strikes our fancy.

Propforward - one thing about a Traction Engine is the variety of work that needs doing. It is also a great excuse for making  and/or adding to shop tooling. For example, I built a set of bending rolls before starting my Minnie. Sure, I could have done without them but seeing the front axle perch, those boiler reinforcement plates and cladding come to shape so evenly made it worthwhile.

Offline cwelkie

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2021, 10:40:22 PM »
The painting (almost) final assembly has been done.  I still hate painting. Oh well - it may be "far from good, but it's good from far".

I ended up using POR15 heat temperature paint for the "hot bits" mainly due to prior success with their other products. Followed instructions carefully and completely even down to using their cleaner/degreaser.  The first learning was to NOT use a magnet to hold up light ferrous parts in place while spraying ... not unless you want an interesting magnetic field image in the paint.  Weird.  The heat cured/baked paint isn't as durable as I was hoping for either; at least for my world.  Naturally, edges and corners are the most vulnerable.

For the blue, red and gloss black I used Duplicolor Engine Enamel (with ceramic). This paint got Duplicolor self-etching primer under it for all parts after scuffing with Scotchbrite and cleaning. On ferrous the paint adhered as well as could be expected. On non-ferrous (i.e., bronze and brass) I found the paint peeled and/or flaked down to bare metal under fasteners and when ever low-tack masking tape was used.  All this after waiting at least a week between spray and masking.  Another "challenge" is the paint's tendency to orange-peel or "stipple" with a later second coat - even after waiting the prescribed 7 days.

My final difficulty was my own fault through not paying attention to the "type" of paint I was using on the wheels.  I found a colour for the wheel rims that I liked (Dupicolor Wheel Coating) and applied it first.  Once dried (for a week), it was masked and sprayed with the blue engine enamel. What I got for my effort was a crazzed, wrinkled finish (and a few small spots of peeled first coat on the rims).  It seems the engine enamle isn't compatible with the wheel coating.

I am happy with how the colour scheme turned out so that's something positive.

In the end I decided I needed to make some progress for a change and put it all together to see if it will run ... and it does.  There are still some tweaks and adjustments including a slide valve that isn't completely sealing.  I'll run it for awhile (on air) to let things settle before I start fiddling with it.
Charlie


« Last Edit: November 03, 2021, 12:46:51 PM by cwelkie »

Offline Don1966

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2021, 10:44:34 PM »
Excellent job on the Minnie Charlie and love the color scheme. ….. :Love:



Din

Offline Dave Otto

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2021, 01:22:45 AM »
Hi Charlie

Sorry about all the troubles with the paint, it sure does run and look nice though!

Dave

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2021, 01:38:33 AM »
Charlie,

That’s a superb engine - inspirational in fact. Sorry to hear of painting difficulties, but it turned out great in the end, you must be pleased with that. I managed to pick up the Mason book for a fair price so I will be studying that - I’d love to build one of these. That project list never stops growing!
Stuart

Forging ahead regardless.

Offline Kim

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2021, 03:42:39 AM »
Very nice looking Minnie, Charlie!   Love the paint scheme.  :ThumbsUp:

It turned out beautiful disspite the problems you had with it.  Painting isn't my favorite part either!  :-\

Kim

Offline Chipswitheverything

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2021, 09:04:26 AM »
The engine looks very handsome in the deep blue paintwork, a fine model and remarkable to have made it during less than a year!
 Re the "Minnie" book, which does seem to be for sale at a very high price, as Don remarked a few weeks ago; though the book would be an asset to a prospective builder, Len Mason published the Minnie series in Model Engineer magazine starting in January 1969 and running on into 1970. Probably easier and cheaper for UK builders to source, if not on their shelves already.   Dave

Offline cwelkie

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2021, 12:53:14 PM »
Thanks everyone for the kind comments. It has been a wonderful build all-in-all. It is interesting which parts of a model one gets the most satisfaction from ... on this one it was the wheels (of course) and the lubricator.  The former because they ended up true and the later just because all the tiny pieces fit and work.

Now to sort out what's next ...
Charlie

Offline Admiral_dk

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2021, 09:37:21 PM »
While it was a pain in the proverbial, to apply the colours, the end result looks amazing  :praise2:
The engine runs very nicely too  :ThumbsUp:

Have you tried to put it in gear so far ?

Per

Offline Zephyrin

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2021, 08:57:00 AM »
you did a great job with the steam tractor, distinguished and fine colouring !
flaking paint on the edges, and under the bolts and nuts, really an annoying thing, I don't know how to solve it.
do you plan to steam it at the end ?

Offline cwelkie

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2021, 02:57:38 PM »
Thanks Per and "Zephyrin".

I'm still undecided about actually steaming this engine.  It has been built and tested throughout to do so but I don't want to get in trouble with the anti-coal movement  ;) It may happen at some point but that would be a whole new learning curve.

Per - just for you  ;D; a video of all the mechanical bits working (except the winch).  Sorry about the compressor in the beginning (one gets so used to it in the shop I didn't notice it until previewing the video later) and the fumbling around with the gear selector pin. This run was at about 20 psi (1.4 bar) - about the same as my espresso machine!

Dave - your comments regarding the serialized magazine articles are well founded.  I am lucky enough to have the book and it is a valuable resource but am sure the magazine articles would follow closely.  As JasonB mentioned a long time back, one can easily build the model from the book.  If I had a "do over", I'd have only purchased the book and used the money spent on the drawings for materials.


Offline Admiral_dk

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2021, 10:18:36 PM »
That should certainly do it in case you want to run it on the ground - so to speak  :praise2:

I see what you mean about the winch, almost 2 minutes in - but how was that supposed to work ?
I mean, you wouldn't have lifted one wheel on such a heavy engine (if it had existed as a full size) ....  :headscratch:

I'm getting even more fond of the dark blue - classy  :ThumbsUp:

Offline cwelkie

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2021, 11:57:05 PM »
I think what you noticed in the video was the winch drum "rolling back" when the wheels were running in reverse.  This was due to the little bit of friction between the winch drum and the drive axle.  I've had to put a small clip over the edge of the drum to keep the cable in place when reversing ... the first time the cable "unwound" and made a bit of a tangle.

This TE uses a live axle under all powered conditions (i.e., gear train engaged), including running the winch. To use the winch requires changing hub drive pins on the right (i.e., gear) side so that the brake drum can stop the rear wheel and removing the hub drive pin on the winch side to "disconnect" that wheel hub.  Now, the axle can turn with the brake on to hold the engine in place.  The load is pulled towards the engine by engaging a pawl on a ratchet wheel on the side of the winch drum.  I hope I've got that right and it makes sense ...

I too am becoming more pleased with the dark blue.  It's a nice contrast to the bright work.

Offline Zephyrin

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2021, 12:58:03 PM »
live steaming an engine is a personal decision...
Yes the dark blue is splendid.

on my diminutive Minnie (1/16 scale), I tested the power available at the drum output, something like 1/3 of the theoretical power of the steam engine, only. It was a funny experiment, but I understand that many builders prefer their immaculate engine on a shelf !

« Last Edit: November 05, 2021, 08:30:01 PM by Zephyrin »

Offline cwelkie

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2021, 05:22:00 PM »
That's a lovely little Minnie you've got there! I'm glad there were no serious casualties while filming the winch test.

Offline Admiral_dk

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Re: Minnie TE (1")
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2021, 08:50:05 PM »
Thank you for explaining how the winch works on this model, for me  :ThumbsUp: