Author Topic: Bailey's 1881 Bee  (Read 7652 times)

Offline ettingtonliam

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Re: Bailey's 1881 Bee
« Reply #90 on: November 01, 2021, 02:50:38 PM »
I bet the full size fitters had to do a fair bit of bending and tweaking to get it all to fit, while quietly (or maybe not so quietly) cursing the designer/draughstsman.

Is Antony Mount still around to report these issues to?

Offline bent

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Re: Bailey's 1881 Bee
« Reply #91 on: November 01, 2021, 03:39:38 PM »
Oh bother.   :-\ 

Glad to see an expert bodger is at hand to get 'er running. ;D

Offline Admiral_dk

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Re: Bailey's 1881 Bee
« Reply #92 on: November 01, 2021, 07:08:26 PM »
Oh man - that is poor .... almost to the point of being dishonest ...  :hammerbash:

As Chris says - they could at least write a warning on the drawings ...!!!

Glad you found a solution Jo  :ThumbsUp:

Offline scc

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Re: Bailey's 1881 Bee
« Reply #93 on: November 01, 2021, 08:22:12 PM »
My sympathies Jo.   To discover design errors so late in the build :Mad:  Pleased to see you have sussed it out .  Excellent work as usual :ThumbsUp:      Terry

Offline ettingtonliam

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Re: Bailey's 1881 Bee
« Reply #94 on: November 02, 2021, 01:07:06 PM »
Will you be telling Polly about this? They woudn't even have to change the drawing, just slip a note in with the revised dimensions.
I've no experience with Polly on these matters, but several other well known suppliers are simply not interested in being told!

Online Jo

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Re: Bailey's 1881 Bee
« Reply #95 on: November 02, 2021, 01:11:19 PM »
Thanks Guys, Anthony and I have exchanged Emails about this.. He is going to try to get a comment put on the drawing but as it is now sold by a third party he has no control over what goes out. We agreed I would document it here and hopefully other will find it (if all else fails)


I have a very nice set of studs to hold the pieces together but I do not have a long enough nut spinner to get down there to tighten then up (having worked out how to get them on there in the first place  :facepalm: So I have used some 20mm long cheese head screws instead  :-X



The two cylinders are a total of 205mm deep. I now need to calculate out the length of the displacer and its rod:

Anthony tells us that "The movement of the piston and the displacer rod can now be checked and the travel noted. With the piston at the bottom dead centre and, it it were connected, the displacer also at the bottom dead centre; the volume of the open space between the underside of the piston and top of the displacer would be 1 1/2 times the volume of the piston displacement.

Measure the length of the hot cap/cylinder (205mm). Subtract the distance of the piston at bottom dead centre (20mm + 25mm piston length = 45mm) This gives you the amount of room in the hot cap (160mm) You should now be able to calculate the piston displacement (32mm diameter 21mm stroke = Pi * r ^2 = 16,890) multiply by 1 1/2 times (25,333) , and subtract this from the volume already measured in the hot cap (Pi * 16^2 *160 =128,600) . The result is the length of the displacer . Subtract an additional 2mm from each end of the displacer to provide clearance


I am confused  :headscratch:

If the stroke of the power piston is 21mm, then all we need to do is multiply that by 1.5 = 31.5, add the 2mm plus 2mm for the spare gap = 36.5mm and subtract that from the 160mm = 123.5mm which is fractionally off that shown on the drawing :)

Jo
« Last Edit: November 02, 2021, 03:44:18 PM by Jo »
Enjoyment is more important than achievement.

Online Jo

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Re: Bailey's 1881 Bee
« Reply #96 on: November 02, 2021, 03:47:17 PM »
First attempt of applying some heat and the end of the hot cap popped off  :toilet_claw:

It is silversoldered back on and I'll try again tomorrow....  :-\

Jo
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Offline Roger B

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Re: Bailey's 1881 Bee
« Reply #97 on: November 02, 2021, 05:16:02 PM »
One problem at a time, not long now  :)  :)  :)  :wine1:

I always like photos with the rest of your workshop in the background to see all the delights in progress on the work benches  :ThumbsUp:  :ThumbsUp:
Best regards

Roger

Offline ettingtonliam

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Re: Bailey's 1881 Bee
« Reply #98 on: November 02, 2021, 09:22:52 PM »
Thats the annoying thing isn't it? We've all come across errors on drawings and wondered why it hadn't been picked up. Now  we  know, they are picked up but the supplier can't be ar---ed to do anything about them. A simple A4 addendum sheet would do fine in most cases.
Back in old days of Reeves, before Reeves 2000, David Piddington designed a 7 1/4" gauge model of Locomotion. This had its faults, but if you told David he'd record it, and send out a periodic updating sheet to all known purchasers of the drawings. Since the demise of Reeves, and the coming of Reeves 2000, during which David was made redundant, all this has stopped. Theres still multiple errors, but Reeves just don't want to know, in fact I'm pretty sure the current management don't understand the issues.

Offline Jasonb

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Re: Bailey's 1881 Bee
« Reply #99 on: November 03, 2021, 07:09:03 AM »
I expect the vast majority of those people building any of Anthony's designs will also seek out his build articles and read them so they would be aware of the problem. I've certainly read his builds of all the ones I have made and most of what I have not made. Then as they were aware would tend not to go back to the supplier about the problem so it does not get corrected on the drawing or a note added


Like many other build articles that ran in ME or EiM there are often corrections or missing sizes in the text that don't appear on the drawings so always worth looking out for the old back issues to get a copy for any project, and read them. These days anyone would do well to check the forums too for a concurrent thread or people posting queries.

Offline ettingtonliam

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Re: Bailey's 1881 Bee
« Reply #100 on: November 03, 2021, 07:57:08 AM »
Having to refer to a separate document that isn't supplied with the drawings in order to interpret them is rank bad practice.

Offline Jasonb

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Re: Bailey's 1881 Bee
« Reply #101 on: November 03, 2021, 08:20:54 AM »
It is, but so common in model engineering, all those sets of loco drawings don't come with the builds from old ME which often start with a correction from an earlier installment and then there is the letters page for the next year or so where things can also be picked up - the pre runner of forums today. Yet there is a lot of info or ref back to using parts from other designs that you would be hard pushed to make the engine without the old articles.

You also have the fact that the drawings from Anthony's models are taken from the magazine that they were in not from his own drawings so corrections are not so easy unless added by hand so if Anthony did not put a revised drawing at the end of his article where he found the problem then less chance of it being provided by the new supplier. Plus the obvious problem of errors in the printed drawings that were not on the originals.

Take the latest Ballaarat in ME, Luker has produced a good set of CAD drawings but still there are queries and like me he has decided to run a forum thread to go with his articles, already several points dealt with in there so anyone building would do well to read it.  https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=173152&p=1. He will update his CAD drawings  but with Mytimemedia not having put out a drawing for any new designs for at round 12years the mags will be the only source of info as he does not sell the drawings or castings.

At the end of the day if the designer does not have the same view about corrections as those vented here and on most forums then they are not going to provide any to whoever is selling the castings/drawings. The suppliers have not built these engines so don't know if what someone picks up is a general error or just a culmination of the builders own work, it costs to verify points raised and the typical deep pocketed model engineer won't want to pay anymore for a set of drawings than they have to.

Online Jo

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Re: Bailey's 1881 Bee
« Reply #102 on: November 03, 2021, 09:12:51 AM »
Having to refer to a separate document that isn't supplied with the drawings in order to interpret them is rank bad practice.

Anthony supplies a description sheet and a parts list with all of his engines. He said in his Email he would have the drawing page updated with a note.

  but with Mytimemedia not having put out a drawing for any new designs for at round 12years ..

Yes that was around when I stopped taking Model Engineer. Having said that Surus had me collect a set of Ferrabee Pillar Engine castings for him a couple of months ago and I was surprised to find that ME had actually published that series with drawings only a few years ago  :o

Jo
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Offline Jasonb

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Re: Bailey's 1881 Bee
« Reply #103 on: November 03, 2021, 09:39:57 AM »
I seem to remember seeing that at Guildford in the bare metal not yet complete so he would have only made that a few years ago.

The other problem with errata sheets etc is that with many sets of castings and part completed engines changing hands they can often be lost or separated. Add that to the fact a new owner may not even get a set of drawings with the castings so may have to track down an old copy that may not have revisions on them.

Then there is the problem of the supplier publishing an errata sheet that does go some way to correcting errors but in itself introduces more, Stuart Victoria being one example.

Offline Admiral_dk

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Re: Bailey's 1881 Bee
« Reply #104 on: November 03, 2021, 11:46:04 AM »
You have some very valid points here Jason and I can't offer any foolproof solutions for any of them ....